Want to Put Your House Up For Sale? Better Ask the Government First
by Tom StewardIt’s tough enough to sell a house with home sales in the Twin Cities undergoing the biggest decline in the country, down 42 percent in July year to year. Yet some local governments make it even tougher for homeowners by imposing some of the country’s most onerous before-sale residential inspection ordinances, adding to the cost and red tape of buying and selling a house at the worst possible time.
Currently, fourteen metro-area municipalities have so-called “point-of-sale” ordinances in place, requiring home sellers to pay for a city inspection prior to selling their property. (In some cases, the ordinances are referred to as “time-of-sale” and “truth in housing” inspections.) In fact, in many cases, sellers are required to pay for the inspection before being permitted to put their home up for sale. These inspections are in addition to, not in lieu of, the private inspections for which home buyers routinely pay $300 or more.
That’s because, as several cities readily admit, these ordinances are not intended to help the buyer or seller. They are intended to help the city.
On its website, the City of Richfield states “inspections are not for the benefit of buyer or seller, but are a community effort to maintain the quality of Richfield’s houses and neighborhoods.” Common code violations cited by Richfield inspectors include bare wood, peeling paint, missing or deteriorated window glazing, and clogged gutters.
The laws require sellers to undergo a comprehensive city inspection for potential code violations at an initial cost that varies from $50 to $200, often before allowing the property to go on the market.
“There are already fixed costs when you buy and sell a property and so having these extra costs piled on top of the transaction can really break up a deal,” said Christine Berger of the Minnesota Association of Realtors. “You can potentially lose your dream home. I call them transaction killers.”
Applications typically include a disclaimer like the City of Osseo’s waiver stating the inspection “does not constitute a guarantee or warranty to any person as to the condition of buildings inspected.” The City of St. Paul “does not guarantee or warranty the accuracy of the report,” according to its website.
Homeowners can get slapped with a fix-it list of repairs needed to bring the property into compliance with city codes. Though some cities issue “disclosure only” reports that do not require action, other municipalities require the property owner or the buyer in some cases to make improvements that go beyond potential safety hazards.
“Who among us in our homes doesn’t have something that would get flagged for some reason or other? The health and safety issues are obviously paramount to us,” said Eric Myers of the North Metro Realtors Association. “But we’ve had them flag a bit of mold along the trim in the bathtub where you just haven’t scrubbed it lately.”
In the Minneapolis suburb of Brooklyn Park, inspectors find problems and order repairs in the overwhelming majority of houses being listed, according to city officials. Even if the house doesn’t sell or is taken off the market, the city requires owners to correct not just code violations but so-called “property deficiencies.”
Officials contend the inspections are more important than ever in an economic downturn to protect potential buyers who may not be able to afford a private one. With an estimated 1,000 vacant and foreclosed houses in Brooklyn Park, officials also insist the inspections are necessary to prevent neighborhood blight.
“I don’t think it’s accurate if you want to talk about too much government,” said Robert Schreier, Brooklyn Park’s community development director. “It’s providing a service to the community. We never hear complaints from people buying the houses. The people that are moving in are glad for the inspections.”
While there are no available statistics to measure the impact of point of sale ordinances on housing sales or costs, realtors say cities should offer buyers and sellers incentives, rather than roadblocks, to reduce the glut of foreclosures and attract buyers.
“Essentially what the city is saying is that you Mr. or Mrs. Seller can’t sell unless we say so, unless you have a city inspection and then make all the repairs,” Myers said. “Nowhere else in the country do we know of where they apply the entire code to delay the transaction, as opposed to focusing on a few items like water saving showerheads or energy efficiency items.”
Point of sale inspections may put the onus on sellers today, but it will be on Brooklyn Park city officials before long. The city council will review whether or not to sunset what’s viewed as the most stringent point of sale ordinance in the Twin Cities—and possibly the nation—in 2012.
“I think when the economy turns around, there’s a question of whether the program would continue,” Schreier said. “I think for this time, however, it’s a good program.”
Metro Area Cities with Point-of-Sale Requirements
Bloomington
Brooklyn Park
Crystal
Golden Valley
Hopkins
Maplewood
Minneapolis
New Hope
Osseo
Richfield
Robbinsdale
St. Louis Park
St. Paul
South St. Paul
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114 Comments
What you can eat, what you can drive, what kind of light bulbs you can use. For you, not for them though! They are the ruling class!
I have had just about enough of the government intrusion into our lives!! They need to be stopped by any means necessary!!
WE WILL NOT GO SILENTLY INTO TYRANNY!!!
This is why this country boy will never live in a city.
They're just trying to make sure no one makes any money without them getting a hunk of it for the union thug groups.
They will come into your home and make sure you don't have anything of any value. If you do they'll sell that too and spread your wealth around to the lazy thugs.
I'll probably burn my house down before I have a city inspector check it.
I've worked with city inspectors before. They are only good for accepting your money.
The left is after total control of everything we do, say, eat and read.
It's 1984 coming true.
" They are the ruling class! "
I thought they were the ruling asses…..silly me.
Just wait, if we take back the house and senate in November. We are in for 2 years on MSM insanity, leading up to 2012….
This will continue, unabated; until the the Populace in unison stands together, turns around, drops trou, and tells the Government to kiss our asses.
Prior to armed conflict, the only current recourse we have available is the voting booth.
Choose wisely.
I can see requiring an inspection of a house but paid for by the buyer. Then if a person wants to buy a piece of crap, then let him. How in the hell do you require a government inspection but then put a disclaimer saying that the report is not backed up? The good idea fairy has struck again!
Don't ask questions, they know what's best for us peons. : )
Speaking of Government overstepping its bounds, I see on Drudge today that War Has Been Delcared.
Yep.
Mooshelle declared war. On salt.
I'm a betting man. Salt will win this war……….
where i live, a potential buyer asked the village about the house next to me. they went to the seller(long story, but owned by large corp), and said there was no permit for your basement. this house had the basement installed by the first owner, who did indeed get permits. they told the seller, since no permits were issued, we must inspect the basement. they found a few problems, one very costly. i then asked the realtor about the barrage of village trucks there, she told me. i then told her the original owner did have permits, and i can contact her, to be sure. the village lost the records, and was glad to take the extra money anyway. governments live to use us as atm's, what happens when we run out of money?
I hope it doesn't come to armed conflict, but if it has to…lock n' load!
Soon, very soon, we will have to pay a fee to take a dump. It's because of the methane and global warming dontcha know.
She won't be able to touch the 200lbs I have in storage, along with my "other supplies".
Welcome to minnesota the land of 10,000 lakes and 10 million ordinances! We are the california of the midwest.
Did you see the article? It had numerous photos of her and Barry pigging out on EVERYTHING!! There's NO ROOM in my kitchen for her big azz!!
You too eh? She won't find my stash either.
Florissant, MO – north county St Louis – has fairly rigorus inspection requirements. When a home changes hands (or for rentals) you have to get an occupancy permit from the city to be able to live in it. If you catch an inspector on a bad day, or if they are just like that, you can end up with hundreds or even thousands of dollars of work.
We were even told last time around that they wouldn't issue the occupancy permit until we had the carpeting cleaned and had completely emptied the house before the new tenant moved in.
Here is a novel idea for Government.
Every government.
Local, City, State, Federal, everyone.
Those elected to public office, as legislators, as bureaucrats. Pass one new law nationwide. Essentially saying that there is a moratorium on any further laws being passed, for a period of four years. Take that time, to go through the laws, the rules, the regulations, line by line, item by item, and allow the PUBLIC to comment, and vote on them, on their legality
Talk about jamming the system up.
But it a valid point. The only thing a legislator does, is to legislate.
Personally, I believe we have far too many laws, rules and regulations.
Yeah and when they ban toilet paper to save on trees you better get used to using your left hand too.
" what happens when we run out of money? "
Just print more….no big deal it's just paper anyway's.
Can I use pages out of the Koran instead ? At least I would be putting it to good use.
The nanny state fully exposed. And here we just thought this happened in the land of OZ and la la land. Tell me again about rights and freedoms not being threatened by the few to control the masses. This inspection should be put to the vote of the people by the city, county, or state. However, if said inspection is to protect the buyer and seller down the road, I can buy off on it. Yet, is it not already covered in the disclosure statement? AZ requires it. Don't all states?
If such a law, rule, etc has been enacted by the town, city or county without voter approval, it should be contested in court.
What, that would mean they would actually have to do something. They could hire lawyers and have SEIU and other cronies do it for them.
Actually that is a great idea. ( yours not my BS above) lol
Yep.
Talk about rubbing salt in a wound!
If you can inspect it from the street, go ahead, otherwise I will kick your government ass if you try to come into my house!
Sugar, salt, canned goods, seeds, fertilizer, water, ammo……………….
Barter goods.
Here's how you jam the system, and get it changed:
1. Learn the codes, not that hard-everything is illegal
2. Walk middle-class neighborhoods, make notes of violations
3. Make the official report of hundreds of violations
4. Watch your fellow citizens wake up to the intrusions of big govt.
5. Make it a campaign platform of your chosen council member.
I have cost my home town untold flack and static this way.
Your fellow citz won't listen, until whacked upside the head.
not when the government runs out, they are already out of money. i meant we fellow atm's all governments finds ways of fleecing with all the taxes.
Isn't it ironic that the "free-love", "free-thinking" hippies of the sixties are now trying to control every aspect of our lives? Isn't it ironic that those who whined about the Patriot act (despite the fact that the politicians THEY supported all voted FOR it) now want to use it against their political opponents?
Isn't it ironic that the same person who said this:
“I’m a fan of disrupters, people who make change……So let’s not question each other’s patriotism when we have this very honest debate that our country expects and deserves.”
in January, 2006, said this in 2009:
"Well, I think we all have to take responsibility for our actions and our words. The — we are a free country, and this balance between freedom and safety is one that we have to carefully balance. I have concerns about some of the language that is being used, because I saw — I saw this myself in the late '70s in San Francisco. This kind of rhetoric was very frightening, and it gave — it created a climate in which violence took place. And so I wish that we would all, again, curb our enthusiasm in some of the statements that are made…."
I can't recall if this was before or after she (Nazi Pelosi) labelled healthcare reform protesters "un-American".
…and then – of course – there's this gem from Hillary Clinton in 2003:
“I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you’re not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration.”
So here's a message to our resident trolls and all the other Progressive loonies out there: Next time you want to call people names – just because they don't happen to agree with government policy – you might do well to remind yourselves of these "words of wisdom" from your heroes!
it's a long story, but it was bought by a corp so the employee could be relocated. once the corp go it, they were fleeced. they were made to put in a radon system, they didn't need. they were made to fix a handicapped accesible deck, and put in stairs. they were made to replace every carpet, re-paint all the walls (the repainting triggered the false positive for the radon system). then they had to break out a pit in the floor, because it was not permitted, and add a vent fan. oh, the old homeowner paid 265 for the house, i don't know what the corp paid, but the guy who just moved in had trouble getting a bank give him a loan for 198.
“We never hear complaints from people buying the houses. The people that are moving in are glad for the inspections.”
Ummm… Did they ever figure out that the buyer eventually becomes the SELLER! If the seller's complain… then that's a 100% complaint rate!
I'd tell everyone there to move away… but that IS the problem… and, it would raise even more money for those crooks!
hey, illinois is, we are almost as broke as california, and we haven't been paying bills for a while. but obama saw to it, we have lots of those obama signs, saying how the recovery is blowing money here. they are paving roads, that were paved only a few years ago, and they are everywhere. you cannot throw a stone and miss a obama sign. so you are possibly number three or four, i think michigan might be ahead of you. but hey, i am glad to share in your misery, where is that misery index from the carter years?
This is nothing more than another way to line the coffers of government! I'm with ya rckmom….get the gooberment out of our lives and our pockets!!!
yes indeed…look into freeze dried stuff…shelf life is 20 years or more…
i like the idea, but i might wack you if you are ratting me out, sorry
war on cigarettes, toilets, incandescent light bulbs, and now salt. if they get around to water, we are screwed!
If barry and sasquatch knocked on my door for dinner they'd get it slammed in their face.. Wouldn't want the bill from the exterminator….lol
we are already out of $$$…
isn't that buying a used car? they say we gave this a 200 point inspection. so i ask does it have a warrantee, they say nope. then i ask, why bother inspecting, if you are not fixing anything?
only if you got them for free…I wouldn't spend one cent on one even if I needed something to wipe my butt….
There goes the Handyman Special!
Nothing will change. Enjoy your delusions while you can, reality will wake you up in January. That or you'll go deeper into the rabbit hole.
And don't forget, coming to a trash can near you are tese chips on recycling bins to measure how much and how well you recycle.
I've always wondered what business the government has telling me (via building codes) that my bathroom has to have an exhaust fan or a window!!? Maybe I like to take a dump and have the room stink . . . is that against the law?
Sorros your master is calling you. Better hurry before the banks close.
If the argument is that this is not for the buyer's or the seller's benefit but for the benefit of community at large, then the community at large (i.e. taxpayers) should pay for the inspections.
You do pay a fee. Waste water treatment bills come every quarter in my city. Still if you break it down it's just pennies a dump. Well worth having it piped across the valley and rendered not-so-poopy. It just might be the only beneficial thing my local government does well.
Do you think she knows that without salt we would die?
Don't forget meat, milk, and dairy products from those evil CO2 producing cows.
If everyone rebelled about a lot of issues these idiots are imposing on us and disobeyed the dumb laws, we can clog up the court systems for decades.
I think the ordinary citizen is afraid of the law . Well the officials and this governement can go to hell. This is our country.
A couple degrees off subject, but why do so many places subject construction work to BOTH licensing AND inspection? You license a doctor because the state can't be there to inspect his work. The contractor pays (then charges his clients) for a license and then pays (then charges his clients) for permits and inspection fees – double taxation. In other words building a new deck on your house is subject to closer scrutiny than having open heart surgery.
Fees, fees, fees for government "services." No, just more taxes. If we are already paying taxes to fund the government, WHY DO WE ALSO HAVE TO PAY THEM TO DO SOMETHING! In my state (wonderful commonwealth of Massachusetts) you also need a fire department inspection and all smoke alarms and CO detectors must be up to the latest "standards." You also need your septic tested and if it fails you need to spend thousands to fix it. I don't get it. If the new owners want everything just so, why the #$!@ don't THEY pay for it?
That makes me sick!
Government at it's WORST.
They're already rationing water in Calif. Assholes they are, the lot of them…
If you have money for an inspection, you could have made another house payment.
Can be a lot of things. But a Doctor can't close his business and reopen under another name in order to hide from lawsuits for shoddy workmanship.
Doctors also don't have an automatic contractors lien on any work they do. No matter how bad a contractors work is, you can't get away with out paying him, but he can hide behind bankruptcy and reincorporate under a different name.
But you are right. Veering of of the subject.
They'll have toilet chips next to fine you for using two ply.
Now Soros, he'll spot you within an hour or two when you go outside. He rich, he got the satellites and stuff to go after you. You should look out for his thugs more than the union thugs. Good call.
Then you lose your house. A guy did that and the city councel assessed his house at $1 mil claiming they couldn't inspect it. So he then owed retroactive property tax on a $1 mil assessed home. So they repossessed his home.
I like the way you think CL…great idea!!!
I don't know if it's worse to answer yes or to answer no to that one….
and it tastes really good too. Much better than many canned veggies and fruits (when reconstituted of course)
I've "met" many people from Minnesota on the net. Most of them sound independent and conservative until you start them talking about politics, then they are for the leftoid agenda. Very strange.
"Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed."
Benjamin Franklin
That says it all!
I attended college in the late 60's. A "fore taste of things to come" was the bewildered young lady with more good intentions than brains, saying "If only everyone would…"
Now such naive young ladies are making the rules. Now they are in a position to try to make sure "everyone will…"
this is the state that elected jesse ventura and al franken. common sense seems to take a vacation when elections roll around.
Not going to happen here anytime soon.
Milton Friedman once said that perhaps the greatest protection the people have from authoritarian government is the inability of a massive bureaucracy to sustain itself under it's own weight without collapsing. That is, they will have to have lots of inspectors and cannot pay for them or their benefits for all the government police who are to enforce all of their tireless monitoring of the citizenry.
.
You're making a good argument for the need of one or the other but not both. If inspections could prevent shoddy work than licensing wouldn't be necessary. A contractor can put a lien on your property but you can contest the lien in court, something you can't do if your heart surgeon does shoddy work because you'd be dead. In the state I live a contractor has to give the client a 30 day notice before filing a lien and then the client has 30 days after he files to contest the lien and in effect sue the contractor. This works with or without licensing. True, if a contractor is incorporated he can declare bankruptcy, fold the company and start a new one to avoid paying a judgment, but that's an argument for licensing INSTEAD of inspections.
Yea slightly off topic but essentially the same – double inspections and double fees on residential housing. I guess big brother thinks housing is too cheap in this country.
Add Santa Barbara, CA to your list of Cities with Point-of-Sale Requirements.
So, are you saying these cities are sending someone in to kick out the homeless meth addicts that are trashing these homes before they can be sold?Because, ya know, they are so concerned with the 'quality of houses and neighborhoods'….
If your neighbor smells it, it is…or course, a lot of these zero clearance houses have the bathroom windows oposite eachother…
I'm sure the government has 'delta force' hunting down the 'good idea fairy'….
its a fire hazard. And its discriminatory against peeping toms.
Do tell, what makes you think anything would change if Republicans take over the House and/or Senate? Other than words, what have Republicans done to make you think they would do anything different?
I'm skeptical. I hope things do change, but in the opposite direction of how Republicans will continue their corruption. By opposite direction I do not mean towards what democrats are doing. They are both corrupt and there is little difference between them when they have power. Republicans fuck things up even worse- 8 years of W. Do you not remember that so long ago?
Was it part of cap and tax that requires the owner to make his house more "green" before being allowed to sell, or was that part of one of the takeovers that has already passed? So much has been rammed down our throats that I just can't remember it all!
Big Brother is pushing the masses over the line.
“The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments.” George Washington.
“The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves.” George Washington.
Probably bring bedbugs with them.
I don't think Franken was actually elected. But, still, he did get enough "honest" votes for more votes could be "found" and put him in office.
Bite cher tongue, bub.
Wait till "Green Building Codes" hit the streets.
The people of Minnisota are obviously not hanging enough public employees just like we are not doing the same in Washington but, it's coming to that.
Sic Semper Tyrannis!
"Personally, I believe we have far too many laws, rules and regulations."
You ain't kiddin'. The law should not be of such scope and complexity that an average citizen cannot understand it. Lawyers should be a convenience, not a necessity.
I'd be tempted to go even farther. All laws should be printed on 8 1/2 by 11 inch 20# paper, in not less than 8 point type. All city/county laws should fit in a 1" looseleaf binder; state laws in a 2" and federal in a 3". If a new law won't fit in the binder, it can't be passed, unless an existing law is repealed.
Ah, yes. Minnesota. The state that elected (possibly) Al Franken. The state that elected the first known muslim to Congress. And let's not forget Jesse Ventura.
The sale of my house to someone else is my business. If the buyer agrees to purchase pending an inspection, I'll get the inspection. And I'll pay a reputable contractor to do it. And it if something is amiss, that is between me and the buyer.
This is the fault of the people of Minnesota. They elected these idiots to make their laws. They'll have to live with it. How about we do an inspection of every elected official's finances and personal life? And if they are an incumbent, charge them the same amount of any tax increases they voted for. This would be a community effort to maintain the quality of our elected officials.
Does it matter when Obama is prepared to do violence?
Of course everyone who buys a house already has an inspection done. This is just about the local government raking off their share.
In San Francisco you have have to get a sign-off from them to show the house meets all of the new regulations passed since the house was last sold, such as lo-flo toilets and showers, no garbage disposals, high efficiency water heaters and furnaces, etc. Those costs can easily run into the thousands or higher, and then you have to pay the city to them to sign off on them when they are completed.
No need to live in a large city. You can find more than enough corrupt public officials in any Cowflop County, USA. We sure have it here. I live in the area that houses the private "McPrison" the three inmates escaped from not long ago. It was on every news channel.
Yep, I have many bags of rice and other provisions. When the "Pockylips" hits I will be able to trade it for women, gold, and guns. LoL
No fee for me…..septic system. It did break and went unnoticed by me for almost a year before it backed up. On the plus side, the two trees in the backyard of my desert home looked great from the free fertilizer. My neighbor even complimented me on how green and healthy they looked.
Wow. That makes me think about how the revolution began way back when. The colonists knew the right way to really hurt King George………… go after his tax collectors first.
Sadly that seems to be a viable method. Only when people are confronted with government force do they begin to fight back. Until the government comes down on them, they don't care what happens to their neighbor, once the government slaps them around a bit, they wake up to reality.
This is not going to be a good winter. The collapse is inevitable don't you think? Once people rush the banks to get their money, he can implement his "martial law" plan and boom…dictator.
My first home was in Richfield, and I sold in 1996. It has been known for years as "The City That Won't Let You Leave". I now live in a Twin Cities 'burb with no such ordinance. For the record, we did not "elect" Al Franken. He was appointed by the MN. democrat party and the George Soros Sec. of State project.
Mark I
16 replies so far and nobody has made the obvious Salt vs. Snails & Slugs comment yet?
In the Cap and Trade Bill there are many more onerous regulations when it comes to selling your home. That is another reason why it must be stopped. Get informed and VOTE smart in November. Fire the STATISTS.
Greg Zotta
Republican Candidate for MO Senate 22
This all about revenue generation for municipalities. The funny thing is; or what is more typical among cities that require 'city certification' to close a sale, the homes are usually in worse condition than communities that don't require 'city inspections'.
Fair enough. I would just suggest, when driving on this one-way road known as Big Government, you clarify yourself better when you're not not going with the flow. My false assumption is accurate 99.9% of the time on this road. A LOT of faith is being put on the results in November on this road.
When we were living in Cook County (yes, Obama-land!), we appealed our property tax increase. An assessor came out to inspect the exterior of the house. He told me he could take care of all our problems for $200 cash.
That's typical of the corruption that runs rampant in an area that has been controlled by Democrats for over 60 years.
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