Internment, CSI and Eric Holder’s Disarming of America
by Thomas Del Beccaro
According to the American Historian Will Durant, “Animals claw each other to death, men consume each other by due process of law.” And with that sentiment in mind, it is easy to see why the Obama Administration has made one of the worst foreign policy decisions in American history.
Of course, I am talking about the decision to try terrorists for “crimes” in New York City in a criminal court using the laws of our land. Let us count the ways this decision is beyond negligent; it is a gross dereliction of duty:
1. An Unprecedented Act Providing A Terrible Precedent. Throughout our history, we have treated enemy combatants as those committing an act of war. That is so because (a) they are not US citizens, and (b) their acts were acts of war. In other words, they were not criminal acts of a US citizen committed during peace time. Now however, Obama has allowed at least one enemy combatant to be tried in a US criminal court subject to the constitutional laws of our country.
Here is what logically can flow from that legal precedent, keeping in mind that the first right granted is never the last:
a) Other enemy combatants will claim that they are not being treated “separately but fairly,” that they too have a right to due process, and so they will claim that they have a right to tried in a US criminal court as well – effectively ending military tribunals; and
b) Thereafter, enemy combatants will not only make use of our appeal process, they will also claim that they have a right to sue in our civil courts for any claimed “civil rights” injustices as a result of the process by which they were captured, detained and/or questioned – regardless of any existing laws to the contrary which they will claim are – you guessed it – unconstitutional; and
c) Non enemy combatants will seek access to the US system claiming that their lesser “criminal” conduct is no less protected, i.e. illegal aliens and on and on; all of which means that
d) Non citizens will eventually claim full constitutional rights – including rights to government programs – in other words the loss of our legal borders.
If you think that is an exaggeration, consider how far the US has come – at one time allowing for interment during World War II of US citizens (essentially taking away existing rights of people) to today granting foreign terrorists Constitutional protections (to which they never should be allowed to have). The latter would have been unheard of in the 1940’s. Now it is a reality. Those are far bolder steps than the steps that I have suggested above.
2. War Decisions Will Be Hampered by Due Process of Law Issues. Once you move from a military tribunal to a criminal court, issues of admissibility of evidence change dramatically. Given that these events happen on a battle field, are we expecting our soldiers to collect evidence? To read terrorists Miranda rights? Are we to call in CSI? Of course, that seems laughable given the dangers of the battle field, but as a lawyer, I can tell you that those issues will come up. Of course the solution to that for the military will be not to take prisoners but instead to simply shoot on sight – a decision that would lead to lawsuits as well. All of which will lead to the worst result of all.
3. Unilateral Disarming. Of course, Osama bin Laden, living in a cave, has no use for due process. He views such niceties as a weakness in his war. At no point will terrorists modify their behavior in response to separate but equal treatment – after all, someone willing to murder civilians by thousands does not specialize in equity. The US, on the other hand, has by its own hand weakened its ability to fight wars – it will have unilaterally allowed others to consume at least part of us by due process of law.
Of course, that may well be part of the Left’s strategy. So too tearing down the barriers between citizens and non-citizens – making terrorists citizens of the world. How long is the process from that decision to Obama then deciding that our Constitutional review of these terrorists must be judged by international standards?
After all, if he has disarmed us of our ability to fight, why not disarm us of our constitution or as they refer to it – Internationalism?
Taking all of that into consideration, incredibly, Obama admits that he didn’t sign off on the decision. Now that is the only crime I can see in this scenario.
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"It is easy to see why the Obama Administration has made one of the worst foreign policy decisions in American history."
Why shouldn't they?
The American electorate in 2008 made one of the worst decisions in the history of America by electing this man and his minions of merry thugs. They feel they have a mandate to do whatever they want.
We have gotten what we deserve.
This whole trial is designed to be used as a distraction from all the other things the Left wants to shove through.
It's a win-win for the Left. The pre-trial process will last years with the Leftist media dutifully covering every aspect of it to keep the public focused on that instead of what else is going on. The precedents set with this trial make it impossible for our military to do much of anything now thereby weakening not only the military but the United States as well.
Is there no end to this incompetency and the systemic dismantling of America ?? Obama is pure evil unleashed on the American people by leftist elites who wish to destroy this representative Republic.
Time is running out, people….. Better get a move on with a new Congress…. You are about to be shackled….
Holder = POS
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Partisan Media Group, Big Tweeting. Big Tweeting said: BigGovt: Internment, CSI and Eric Holder’s Disarming of America: According to the American H.. http://bit.ly/2xp78A #BigTweet [...]
The biggest differences between the civil courts and a military tribunal have to do with the courts themselves. Ever since the courts were established, precedents and rulings have been made outside of the constitution, according to whatever moral or political wind is popular in that day. Miranda rights are an excellent example.
Military tribunals, however, have largely remained outside such rulings. Though the rule of law is the same, certain feel-good procedures implemented by the red-tape experts does not apply.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by johnnyA99 and lmcginnis33, Thomas Del Beccaro. Thomas Del Beccaro said: Internment, CSI & Holders Disarming of America- http://biggovernment.com/2009/11/19/internment-csi-and-eric-holders-disarming-of-america/ [...]
Bad news is we're toast. Good news is Bin Laden will not attack us now… never interrupt your enemies suicides.
And now a few words for the new world government:
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred."
Niccolo Machiavelli
What I don't understand about the decision is that they are going to try KSM for federal crimes. How can a foreigner commit a federal crime outside the USA? Do we suddenly have jurisdiction for every violation of federal law that occurs on the globe?
It was, however briefly, gratifying to see the dubious Republican Lindsey Graham hand Holder his own ass and stump him on the questions. It would be sweeter to see the MSM pick up on the meme outlined by Sen. Graham: that Holder is trying to make history while blurring the lines between military action and civilian action.
It's an absurdity without peer — Every time this stupid sack of feces pulls another stunt, I think it's the absolute worst ever, until the next one, anyhow.
In 2010, we need to put all the Dims on the endangered feces list.
If our rules become theirs, then it's only a brief step until their rules become ours . . . Internationalism
What legal authority does Eric Holder have to demand/take custody of Prisoners held by Department of Defense. He has none. Any attorneys want to weigh in on this? These cases have so many levels of appeals it will set precedence and that is what this case is all about. Changing the laws in this country.
Eric Holder and the Obama administration are more dangerous to our safety than KSM. They have 4 years with which to attack continuously our freedom, economy, environmental,and health care issues in order to bring about their stated goals of a marxist, socialist, elitist state. KSM and the other terrorists will walk free when the case gets thrown out on due process issues by a left wing liberal judge. Hope it happens and hope it destroys this administration.
Wasn't that funny?
Graham isn't abnornally smart, so it wasn't a difficult question, but it sure stumped Holder!
Dumb and Dumber play "Stump the Idiot", on the new political gameshow "Idiots-r-Us".
Punishing Congress by 'voting them out in 2010' only works IF there are elections in 2010. With all of the 'smoke & mirror' activity going on, a 2010 vote seems unlikely. Either this administration/Congress is the most incompetent bunch of 'leaders' in the history of the world, OR they are merely distracting us from their real intentions. The 2010 elections appear to hold only TOKEN fear for the 'leaders'. (Rather than 'Let them eat cake', it looks like the attitude of the American royalty toward Americans is "Let them whine."
They should be outlawed. The amount of methane that they ommit is hazardous to the environment.
Internationalism/Transnational Law with a little Sharia law thrown in.
Thomas keep it up with these articles, if we are going to throw away our Constitution at least we need to do it in the light of day not in the dead of night.
Attorney advice would help. Is there any way to stop this via the Supreme Court? I agree with some that this is a distraction attempt, with the administration thinking that there will be too many balls for the "masses" to juggle. The timing is odious.
When a liberal thinks or acts, they WEAKEN and ENDANGER America.
http://noliberalspin.blogtownhall.com/2009/11/19/...
The Anti Liberal Zone
Its ALL about putting their evil enemy Bush on trial. Nothing less.
IMPEACH COMRADE MAOBAMA
http://noliberalspin.blogtownhall.com/2009/11/19/...
The Anti Liberal Zone
waiting until 2010 to throw the Obama markists out will be too little too late. What is frightingly striking about this situation is the glaring gullibility of the typical uninformed American electorate. If they can be suckered this easily by a slick talking Chicago thug snake oil salesman then they can also be suckered easily into full capitulation to socialism. Oh by the way, don't go thinking Sen. Lindsey Grahm has suddenly changed his stripes. A RINO is A Rino is a Rino…always….see Arlen Specter…
Eric Holder gave one of the worst, most incoherent performances before Congress we have ever seen.
The contortions of logic, the stretching of the truth, the blithe ignorance of the ramifications-
Can only mean one thing. They were all lies. It is patently obvious that they (the far left) want their 'show trial'; the 21st century equivalent of the Church commission of the 70's- where our intel services were gutted before- where the CIA and Bush and particularly 'Darth' Cheney can be put on trial. They are literally ecstatic over this…
US security concerns be damned…
We The People of United States of America are not weak. Unfortunately Hussein and his Posse of Clowns are setting the stage to put the United States in more danger than it already is.
" it is a gross dereliction of duty"(Courtesy of Thomas Del Beccaro)
But that really only works for the simple minded sheeple of the dimocrat masses. They don't seem to understand that most all of us Conservative CAN actually pay attention to more than ONE issue at a time.
The trial.
Health takeover scam.
Cap and Tax, Tax, Tax.
Global Warming, Cooling, Warming again, Cooling again….
Porkulus – bailouts.
Trying to ruin Fox, Rush, BigG.com, Beck, etc.
I guess it's not that hard to actually pay attention when you don't fill your brain with who fell down on Dancing with the old B sitcom stars, and who caught on fire on some tropical island trying to Survive, or who screwed up the words to a song that everyone else sings in the shower in front of some British stuck up guy.
Related headline satire: Crime! Declared on al-Qaeda and Other 9/11 Terrorists http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/11/crime-declare...
Quick Question:
If battlefield detainees have US Citizens rights. It follows that all battlefield participants have US Citizens rights. Let us look at all the nicetes of just cause, right to bear arms, free speech, unreasonable search and seizure, are we suspending these constitutional rights for these expostfacto citizens and if so under what constitutional authority.
Here is the takeaway
Establishing the authority to do so at this point would be critical and once we contort the Constitution to this end the same rules would necessarily apply here.
My paranoid extention
When do world citizens get there US citizenship?. Is it when they enter into war with us?, when we occuy them?,when we take military or police actions within their borders?, or is it the moment they take a breath?.
If all citizens of the world enjoy the rights of Citizens of the US then they have a right to due process, equal access and so forth in their own countries. When these rights are stifled as Blacks rights to educational access were in Alabama we have the OBLIGATION to respond.
Perhaps Obama has just elected himself Ruler of the World not by bringing America under UN authority but by projecting his "benevolence rule worldwide"
Did anyone see this possibilty coming? A PC take over of the world?
where the hell is my thorazine
I know it sounds "nutty", but I am truly afraid there will bo no elections in 2010. My fear is that right before election day, a made up crisis will erupt, sending the empty suit on TV to proclaim; "I don't want to do this, but for the good of the country, I'm going to suspend elections until this crisis is over." Then, the really sad truth hits, that 50% of Americans will sit back and say, "Well, I guess he knows what's best."
It is time to divide the country….The northeast, the Pacific coast, and the rust belt cities along the great lakes can become the socialist utopia they dream about, the rest of will remain the United States.
Hey, you didn't get the memo? The era of lawlessness and disregard for human rights under the Bush/Cheney regime is over. We tried it your way–ignoring every precept of human rights honed over the decades–and it didn't work. Your greatest fear is that these guys will be convicted and punished the fair and decent way.
At one point in the last few days, I saw this as a lose-lose for this administration while searching for "Why in the world would they do this?". These were my simple initial thoughts; how would any court ignore the basic 'rights' we are all familiar with…Miranda, Speedy trial, coerced confessions, impartial jury…and still allow a conviction? So if these glaring forced a failure of conviction, disaster for this administration. But if all of the above is 'ignored' and they get a conviction, they succeed in making a mockery of and destroying our judicial system. Disaster for this administration, fail / fail right?
Until in a conversation about these simple thoughts, it was brought up that there are two possible scenarios that will constitute a win for this administration's ultimate goal;
1. Impossible to find an impartial jury – take it to the world court.
2. The farce trial puts the goal of destruction of the Constitution into hyperdrive. Any number of measures can / will be taken in the wake of this trial. Fundamentally changing this Country. period.
Agreed. The "hope" is that they can get us focused on that even though we on the Right are much better at multi-tasking. Don't forget, also the Left still thinks the MSM is relevant and we pay attention to them. It will go down pretty much as described though. The media and the Left will just become shriller and shriller about the trial when they finally figure out we aren't paying attention to their distractions.
Not so fast here. The Obama administration is also supporting terrorism and Sharia Law:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2...
Wow! So you think they should have the same rights as an American citizen? Go back to MSNBC jacka$$!
Please explain, JPA, how the men charged with bombing the USS Cole are facing military tribunals and these 5 are not? What is the logic? Do you know what logic is?
Cowboy Logic, your comments are a genuine pleasure. Thank you for replying.
Keep up the good work. Every time you say a particular thing, especially when you phrase it a bit differently, you give another person a chance to pause and reflect. We need more and more and more Conservative brothers and sisters. I'm become a proselytizer, big-time, and I can't apologize for it. These are urgent times, so I don't mind sounding an urgent alarm, to the best of my ability.
Again, thanks for all your excellent comments.
"incredibly, Obama admits that he didn’t sign off on the decision"
And that, dear readers is not just a lie, but a damned lie………….
Thanks man!
Sometimes, I think "what's the use"?
Then I think of my kids, and grandkids, and get mad about this all over again.
I do have a different perspective, but actually, we all do. We all have our own unique jobs to do here, whatever that particular job happens to be. Like I told one of those little investment bankers once, in one of those big fancy offices on Wall Street in Newww Yarkkk: "Sonny, just because I talk slow, doesn't mean I am slow"…………
In the end, it's about our kids, grandkids and (in my case) yet-unborn great-grandkids. We fear for them, and then we become angry because there's no good excuse for idiots making us fearful.
I regret my my decades-long lackadaisacal attitude toward politics. Who knows? If more people had been more vigilant for more years, maybe we wouldn't now be facing this collectivist machine, this brute force that wishes to stamp out all individuality left within us.
Mao said political power flows from the barrel of a gun. ObaMao knows this, although he recognizes it wouldn't be wise to say it so baldly as that, at least not now. I know what you mean about "what's the use?". I'm glad so many of us in these pages are committed to the right thing.
Eric Holder's old law firm represented Guantanamo detainees pro-bono, and don't forget, Eric Holder in 1999 was deputy Attrorney General under Janet Reno who signed off of the Clemency for the 16 FALN Terrorists….
You have to understand what Obama/Soros's goal is.
It's quite simply to overwhelm the entire US system, bring it to its knees, then say "See! See! Democracy and freedom don't work! We have to take control of you now, for your own good. We have these camps set up for you. Please come along quietly."
Yes, and they keep trying to dumb down the electorate. And reprogram our youth while killing off seniors at an earlier age.
Holder is Obamao's bootlicking butt kisser.
Do we know if he's a Muslim. All indications are that Obamao is one and this show trial, in addition to roasting Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the CIA, is meant to hamper our military from annihilating Islamists.
Are our soldiers expected to maintain the integrity of the evidence collected on the battlefield?
Wake Up america! This is more misdirection and its unconstitutional as well! This guy is a pure politcal hack that neds to be jailed for wasting tax payer dollars and refusing to do his job of up holding the laws of this country and by doing so seeking politcal capital. Kick this clown out now along witht he rest of the elites, idologoes and just plain gredy thieves that are in washington! Stand up and take to the streets! force thees people to run for their lives to France of Venuszela. Oh yeah if they tryied to move there ole HUGO would have them shot as revoltuionaires! Maybe they could go to CUBA and enjoy that great health care system! Wake Up america! they are stealing your rights and your dreams! The will make salves of your children! stand up now or bow down for ever! Wake Up America!
Incredible!
AXELROD SIDELINED!!! PRESIDENT OBAMA CEDES CONTROL OF 2012 REELECTION BID TO MUSLIM POLITICAL MASTERMIND!
http://naturalfake.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/axelr...
Nooooooooooooooooooooo…………………..some of us got what a majority ( a slim one and probably far slimmer, due to voter fraud ) of morons deserve, but what WE don't !
Just wait…………………..as bad as it is now, Obama et al WILL make it far worse!
Even when we take back at least one House, that won't come to fruition until 2011 and just look at what this damned SOCIALIST and his minions have managed tol do TO us in 11 months.
I'll tell you the REAL logic. The Cole bombing occurred under Clinton. End of story.
Excuse me, JPA, but which of your civil rights were denied under Bush? Was your phone tapped? Was your computer hacked? Were you systematically audited by the IRS? Bush wanted to listen in on terrorist activity, not average citizens. I have so much more fear of anything Obama might pull than anything Bush ever did. Obama's actions are anti-American. What say you about the fact that the SEIU St. Louis thugs weren't arrested or that the Philadelphia black panthers got off because they didn't show up in court? What about Obama taking pensions away from secured lenders of GM and giving the money to the unsecured lenders (UAW) because the unions gave him millions for his election campaign? Obama is trying to punish this country for perceived wrongs against Islamists, while catering to the far left with his dog and pony show and shredding the Constitution. He shapes policy on how it benefits his big donor supporters.
Not true…………………..bin Laden saw Slick Willie for what and who he is and used the Toon's ineptness to strike Americans all over the world. He knew that nothing would be done to stop him.
Obama is far worse, so expect more "hits"; even on our own soil. Of course, planning takes a while, a new hit, here, might not happen until a GOP president has taken office. Thedn, President Palin will be blamed; sadly.
According to reports, Holder played an active role in getting the FALN detainees released. Someone who made a partisan decision such as this and in approving a pardon for Mark Rich should never have been confirmed. He's Obama's lapdog.
If they go to Cuba, we need to remind them to bring their own toilet paper. Wouldn't want to inconvenience a lefty; they're already full of crap.
There WILL be elections in 2010…………they can't stop them!
It's 2012, that you should worry about; though, if we can take both Houses in the 2010 election, that will go a loooooooooooooooooooooong way to ameliorate the situation. OTOH, having a GOP majority forcing Slick Willie to do some of what was right, got him re-elected.
he's a muslim all right- or, at the very least he certainly is no Christian…
Obviously YOU got the memo from the anti-American lefties.
Your pathetic BDS ( Bush Derangement Syndrome ) needs medical care; get some help !
We weren't attacked by Islamo-terrorists after 9/11……………THANKS TO PRESIDENT BUSH AND HIS ADMINISTRATION. That worked!
And there is no such a thing as "human rights" for those who wish us and our nation ill.
Our greatest fear, which should also be yours, is that the terrorists WILL NOT be prosecuted, WILL get the OJ treatment, that terrorist acts WILL be committed during these sham trials, and that our security WILL be blown sky high during discovery.
And the FALN he got off did NOT even ask for it! Holder did it all on his own.
I have to apologize, my dripping sarcasm was a little too subtle and did not read through in black and white. Redcent, you are correct on all counts…
Evil does have a face after all. You see it everyday, everywhere. The biggest hoax ever pulled on mankind , Satan doesn't exist.
Something no one has thought of or mentioned is the certain threat to families, and friends of families, of the 12 people who will sit on this jury.
And what criteria will be used to find 12 people who are peers??
Two things: One or more terrorist trials in the US, and up to 220 foreign terrorists relocated to penitentiaries in the US. Both situations will bring in non-incarcerated terrorists, in unknown numbers for the trial(s), and a rough average of ten listed visitors for each incarcerated inmate. Although most US convict visitors are family members, that is not a visitor-list restriction; prior convictions (for terrorist activities) would be, but the Islamists are not idiots – none of the "visitor's list" new US residents will likely have checkable records.
Both circumstances, the trial(s) and the prisoner relocation, are a crisis in the making, and we all know what the Rahm Emanuel motto about crisis is: In these cases, the "crisis" could well be the sort of thing that an Administration might "be forced" to deal with by a declaration of Martial Law.
I did not vote for Oblabla. I will not accept the blame for Obama's destruction of the United States. The election was not a landslide like the staterun media slobber on about. Tea Party on!
Don't forget: These are man-made-disaster combatants. (another unprecedented item)
Here's a hint……………..when posting something sarcastic, put a /s after the last period.
Thanks for owning up; you get porps, from me, for doing so !
What have you been smoking?
Paranoia.com
Since we are creating or saving jobs in US State districts that don't exist, then surely we have jurisdictions globally that don't exist.
Bless you over and over. Keep 'em comin, always dead on. This one's personal. We once got a new dept mgr who got the job "because he knew how to manage people, so he didn't need to understand How It's Made"….Sure didn't have either skill. One day I said, "Treating me like I'm stupid won't make it so. " It took awhile but he came back about my attitude, said maybe if I showed initiative, company loyalty, put in overtime (unpaid salary overtime), maybe I'd progress in the company. So I said "Gee, I used to do all that good stuff, before you came here, even the overtime…What're ya gonna do? Promote me?" See, he had my promotion. He simply gaped at me with a really deep blush.
Will Durant also said – in the 50's – "A supreme and unchallengeable faith is a deadly enemy to the human mind". I posted this on my Facebook Wall on Nov 16 after the announcement was made. And he was referring to the Inquisition – not much has changed, has it?
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With the current crop of criminals in power right now, they can do ANYTHING they want, knowing we can't stop them. The Emperoro, working in conjunction with DHS & FEMA can declare a national emergency, suspend the Constitution, send Congress home, establish martial law, bring the UN in… anything they want. The Emperor can declare a national emergency because his daughter failed science class and the emergency will remain in effect until she gets a passing grade (sarcasm). Remember… these people aren't playing by our rules, they make them up as they go along.
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