Leake and the London Times: Climate Scientists thwarted FOIA
by Steven MosherGraham Smith of the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) has revealed to Jonathan Leake of the London Sunday Times that his office has uncovered wrongdoing on the part of the University of East Anglia’s (UEA) Climate Research Unit (CRU). In a letter to Leake, Smith writes:
The emails which are now public reveal that Mr Holland’s requests under the Freedom of Information Act were not dealt with as they should have been under the legislation. Section 77 of the Freedom of Information Act makes it an offence for public authorities to act so as to prevent intentionally the disclosure of requested information..
Currently the law prevents the authorities from taking any action against CRU, and the ICO office will recommend changes to the law to close the loophole.
On Nov 19th after I alerted the internet to the Climategate files, I contacted Andrew Revkin of the New York Times. The message: follow the FOIA. He didn’t; Leake did. Score one for the London Times. As the story unfolded Tom Fuller and I grumbled about with the coverage of the FOIA story. A book fell out of that. Climategate:the Crutape letters, now available on Kindle and as a Lulu Ebook.
The story behind Holland’s FOIA request (here and here) requires close reading of blogs, scientific papers, leaked mails, FOIA requests, IPCC drafts, and expert reviewer comments. There is no simple take away. Except this: the Climate scientists corrupted the IPCC process, the science journal process, the statistical process, and the FOIA process to silence one man– Stephan McIntyre –and to waterboard the climate data till it delivered the message they wanted delivered, an icon more compelling than the “Hockey Stick.”
No one who can put two brain cells together can argue that these processes and the people who abused them are untainted. Instead, they will argue that nothing changes in the science. But without a trusted process there is no science. Surely, the specter of global warming does not earn a last place in the concerns of Americans. But it’s been driven there by the public’s lack of trust in the process. In their rush to judgment, the climate scientists, convinced of the nobility of their cause, have engaged noble cause corruption. Lucky for them a loophole in the law may save them from prosecution, but should not save them from disbarment.
The case is clear. In an effort to shoe horn a paper into the IPCC report, the scientists working together with Stephen Schneider of Climate Change journal, destroyed the credibility of chapter 6 of the 4th Assessment of the IPCC. And they knew as they hijacked the process that Stephen McIntyre was watching. Yet they persisted and were caught. One scientist, Phil Jones, even suggested changing the dates on papers to hide the misdeed. But there was no hiding of the misdeed as they left a paper trail of violations.
The critical violation revolves around the submission of comments outside the IPCC process. All comments must pass through official channels. Overpeck, the task master for chapter 6 makes this clear in the mails. But the “Jesus Paper”, the paper that will save the Hockey stick is different. In defiance of process the lead author, Keith Briffa, contacts and is contacted by the authors of the “Jesus Paper,” Casper Ammann and Eugene Wahl. That correspondence, evident to McIntyre, a reviewer of chapter 6, was one target of Holland’s FOIA.
The details of Holland’s requests are covered at Climate Audit. On May 6th 2008 CRU acknowledged his request. On the 3rd of June they denied his request. On the 4th he appealed and they rejected his appeal on June 20th.
At 6:30 on May 27th 2008 , the scientists in CRU were directed by FOIA officer Palmer to contact Ammann and find out if he considered his mails confidential. That was the predetermined excuse Palmer had suggested for rejecting Holland’s request. Palmer, fearing an appeal wanted to do things “by the book.” Which in this case meant suggesting to Ammann that his mails were confidential. Ammann appears to think otherwise. His response, however, was not taken into account and the refusal was issued.
Between the time when Palmer suggested that confidentially would be the excuse (May 27th) and the denial (June 3rd), Phil Jones would close the door on any potential appeal. He would request that everyone involved delete their mails.
The deletion of the mails might have worked. But buried in a mail from Wahl to Briffa, we have Briffa’s original mail, detailing the circumvention of the IPCC process. Worried that he cannot be objective in evaluating McIntyre, Briffa shipped a confidential file to Wahl in direct violation of the policy that Overpeck had explained to Roberts, in essence asking Wahl to evaluate his “Jesus Paper.”
In the end, of course, the full extent of the misdeeds will be detailed by the ICO, this is my take on the matter given the evidence in the climategate files. And while they have escaped prosecution, it’s clear that CRU and CRU employees cannot be trusted with the public interest. Beyond that we can wonder if action will be taken against them under the laws of misconduct in a public office, or under conspiracy laws in the UK. The legal status of destroying email in the US bears investigation.
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128 Comments
Mr. Mosher,
Excellent article. I have followed this topic closer than most. What I do not understand, is why there is not a public uproar, a furor, a total rage at this. This has been the greatest fraud ever perpetrated upon humanity. The only reason I feel the public is not outraged, is because the academics, the intelligensia have intended to complicate this, so that the avearge citizen feels it is over their head, and they do not understand it.
It is not hard to understand people, it is fraud at its finest. Bernie Maddof would be proud.
Let me see, progressive global warmers committed fraud, lied and just plain made up data……why does that not surprise me?
I have been saying that global warming was a hoax for years, in fact I never believed it for 1 second. However, it does show how gullible and corrupt the left is.
How stupid do they think we are?
These global warming con artist masquerading as scientist need to be in jail. They have bilked the taxpayers out of billions of dollars. They have shamelessly propagandized little children causing them distress and anxiety just to advance their fraudulent agenda and satisfy their greed. To jail with all of them I say and the sooner the better.
This surprises anyone because? These are tenured leftist academics that would have to actually produce something of value if they lose their endowment. If they have to cheat, and steal, to retain their jobs as a professional bellyacher…well, sacrifices have to be made!
A tad off topic, but relevant.
I see Barry the Brazen is on TV right now with his burnished brass balls blaming Bush, again. This juvenille peckerwood just doesn't get it. He is early today. He was on at 10:48. He is usually on from the 11:30-12:30 time slot.
What's next on thier agenda…lunar warming??
Every right wing blog should end like this piece of trash:
"Beyond that (the fact that no one has been charged with a crime) we can wonder if action will be taken against them"…
And as for conspiracy, how do you have a conspiracy when there is no underlying crime? This is a reach even for Mosher.
Tell a lie often enough and the dumb masses will believe it……
I am certainly glad this Climate Change stuff was exposed as the hoax we all knew it was.
Rather Inglorious Basterdz, aren't they?
At least he's CONsistent.
…………and?
Underlying crime? Now that is a rather "Inconvienent Truth"…………..
the public's outrage is a quiet, simmering one…
The torch on this is being carried largely by the NEA and the educational establishment, because Gaia worship supplants religion nicely. For that reason alone, it is an apostasy to question 'settled science'. LIke questioning
Leviticus or Thesselonians, one supposes.
However, the polls show support for current climate science in free fall; it has lost credibility exponentially over the past three years or so. So, it exists- not so much for the policy aspects, which are really going nowhere- but to serve it's leftist propaganda needs…
Excellent points.
I liken this whole fantasy, to the flat earthers of about 500 hundred years ago. They have created a box for themselves, and it is comfortable. They refuse to think outside the box, or go outside of their own respective comfort zones. They all think the world end, at the county line.
They are no different than the "Holler People" of Appalachia. There are people there who have never been to the end of their road, much less further than the mailbox.
I hear some peckerwoods are trolling about
No, the watermelons' Plan B is the "ocean acidification" scam.
I think they have a Plan "C" too. It seems they are trying to build a case for an "oxygen crisis" if you can believe that. No joke.
"It is not hard to understand people, it is fraud at its finest. Bernie Maddof would be proud"
The ironic thing is that this whole climate scam has a "Bernie Maddof"……..His name is "Al Gore"…….yet people refuse to believe that anyone involved in saving "Mother Earth" could possibly be a con artist. Maybe it's simpler than that though, maybe most people are just plain stupid………
Ah yes. The Pompous Pontificating Papal Putana', the illustrious Algore. Head of the Church of Global Bacaca. What a lunatic!
I hit the mute when his face popped up – you are all stronger than I in listening to his garbage. Thanks for letting me know the context, though I surely should have guessed!
That's twice in one day you've hit the "nail on the head" Cowboy………I truly believe Al Gore is certifiable….
I think that Odumbo believes. Just like he must believe that professional wrestling is real.
i myself am quite disappointed in al gore.
you see, always being a bit gullible by nature, i believed what he said.
i thought the movie was true so i took my life's savings and purchased massive amounts of acreage in the cold, frozen north of America. i moved my family and all of my belongings to the land i purchased with the expectation that very soon, due to the rapid increase in temperatures, this tundra like acreage would become tropical, beachfront property and i would be able to flip it for a small fortune as people from florida scrambled back north to escape the inconvenient truth.
now, i find out it's all a lie? another money making scam? oh Fortuna, tell me it's not so!
well, needless to say, my wife won't talk to me. my father refers to me as the "fool." my kids hate me and while they all shiver at night in the crude log cabin i constructed with the last of our funds, i stand out amid the acres of nothingness with a glass of single malt scotch, a cigarette and aerosol cans which i spray towards that damn ozone trying desperately to diminish it and make my global warming dream come true.
the humanity of it all.
on another note, is anyone interested in a thousand acres of useless, empty land a little south of the canadian border? i'm willing to deal. we've gotta get back to florida.
remember, "global warming helps shallow people feel socially activated."
I'm wondering
If a private business, working under a government contract, deviated from the contract requirements, and falsified project results and outcomes, couldn't they be sued for the return of any payments from the government? Wouldn't they be subject to criminal charges of fraud against the government?
Could third parties, such as businesses, who relied on the results, and based business decisions such as buying CO2 pollution equipment, or perhaps invested in CO2 trading schemes, sue for damages?
Showing these people as the frauds they are is nice, but you need to hit these people where it hurts-the wallet. A light slap on the wrist will do nothing to deter these people. Someone needs to go to jail. Nothing else is going to scare these fanatics and their corporate backers. They WILL try again.
t-o-m, I'm in Florida and I'm not planning on leaving. However, if next year is as cold in Florida as this year, wow! If only I could afford a place on the gulf stream.
and they think us to be 'flat earthers'…
So it goes. Closed minds breed predictable outcomes. And, seeing that they have made the determination that THIS will be their desired religion- no matter how flawed- they will defend this fiction by all means necessary.
Lying serves that purpose…
In the United States the real villain in the "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" hoax is the mainstream media who even now is suppressing all these new disclosures and decided that business as usual is the way to go. The implementation of a global world government is all they and the present administration are interested in and nothing, not even the truth, will deter them in this quest. If not global warming they will find another "world crisis" to help them achieve their goals. All those in the mainstream media and politicians who knowingly took part in this massive socialist conspiracy, should be investigated by the justice department and if enough evidence is found of collusion on their part, they should be tried and sentenced to long prison terms if found guilty. Of course with the mainstream media and the justice department being in the pocket of our communist administration all traces of adjusting the numbers to fit the outcome desired in the "global warming" scheme will be completely ignored and the mainstream media will try to continue the hoax as though it is still "settled science." Thank god for the internet. Perhaps the people will know the the truth and the truth will set them free because of this wonderful new technology, without which we would all be slaves of the state by now.
It's not that hard to understand why more people aren't speaking out in anger about this, cowboy. I can sum it up in one word. Shame. The same reason so many rapes and cons go unreported. Pure and utter shame at the knowledge that they were so easily taken advantage of. It's unjustified to feel that way, but that is the driving force nonetheless.
NO ONE IS REPORTING. This is the biggest fraud perpetrated upon the world. They have depleted money and resources world wide. It's about power , control, money…….. Glenn Beck mentioned it this morning on radio, how it's not being reported.He touched on some of the stories. Two sites to inform you daily.. Please keep informed on this.
http://climatedepot.com/a/3943/Read-All-About-it-...
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/
There is no uproar because this whole "global warming" issue is dead last on the list of concerns for the American people.
Let this cap and trade nonsense grow some legs, which will result in a few silly regulations, than maybe we start looking at all this mind boggling (cooked) data with a rightful eye.
Let these silly looking wind mills become the law (and the lay) of the land and they start rationing our watts, we will get the required furor and rage to overcome all this hope and change.
Cowboy,Logic
I credit the lack of public outrage to the complexity of the issue. Since you have followed the topic closer than most I'm sure you can appreciate the difficulty people who are new to it have in grasping all the details required to understand what was done and why it matters. Explaining the whole "Jesus paper" episode is a book in and of itself. Also, I'm very careful not to call it fraud. Prosecutorial misconduct comes close. Noble cause corruption comes close. Mankind, in the end, may be guilty of killing the planet. However, the behavior of those prosecuting the case, while it may not amount to fraud, does require anyone with an open mind to declare a mistrial.
I suppose one has to appreciate the benefit to the world the American economy has provided in order to see the ramifications of its demise.
If compromising this fruitful engine is not to be construed as a crime against humanity, than by all means bring us down to, say, Mexico's economic level for the sake a few more polar bears.
There are some people looking at this angle of things. I will just leave it at that. There is applicable law.
Right wing economic policies led to the great depression and led to the financial meltdown of 2008. Our economy functions in spite of the right wing, not because of them.
[...] of Amazon Rainforest disappearing. That’s strike three. Steven Mosher, Big Government: Leake and the London Times: Climate Scientists thwarted FOIA Sean Hannity Forum: Glaciergate widens, IPCC cooked its numbers on the rainforest too. Bluegrass [...]
There are those who believe in climate change/global warming. You can see many of them when the cameras 'pan' tha audience at a professional wrestling match.
Thank you for responding.
My experience with gov and institutional contracting is that the good old boys network will do everything in their power to protect their friends. Until their job gets put on the line. Then its every man for themselves finger pointing.
Everyone out there pressing this fight deserves a medal. Sorry I can only offer "Thank you"
Keep up the good work.
HEY…I am a PROUD-ASS-PECKERWOOD and am insulted that you refer to BHO as one!
Quite well, I'm sure, with the EPA preparing to issue carbon dioxide emission limits.
Yes, that was indeed one of Bush's biggest mistakes;…. not having dismantled Fannie and Freddie.
But please, let us not take this discussion back into the past, otherwise we might as well just take all the way back to King George.
Let us use science to provide us with a greener world and not politicize it to facilitate for the left what communism could not accomplish.
Don't give up yet.
It ain't over till it's over.
If we get this cap and trade thing passed, we will have to get rid of our refrigerators and ice boxes will make a huge come back.
Just figure out how to cut up your domain into blocks of ice and ship them down. Customers are starting to line up already.
Just let me have a shot at one of your distributorships.
Your post is kind of confusing… you folks use English there in the windy city?
So fraud is not a crime? That is exactly what these leftist scum masquerading as scientist, along with their political progressive masters, have perpetrated on citizens of the entire world at the cost of billions of dollars and they are still trying to do it. It is the biggest fraud in world history and makes Bernie Madoff and even our ponzi scheme social security system pale in comparison. The reason no one has been charged so far is because these leftist are protected from prosecution just like the Black Panthers were protected by Eric Holder after they intimidated voters in PA.
That land is probably worth even less than you think. Soon the left will claim that the snow on your tundra is endangered because it melts each Spring and therefore you, or anyone else who might consider buying it from you, will not be able to build or do anything constructive with the land because any land with something they consider endangered must be left AS-IS. Sorry to be the bearer of more bad news. ;o)
thank you for your words of encouragement, chicago ralph.
in between laughing at me and weeping hysterically because of the dire predicament into which i have led my family, my wife refuses to hear any more of my ideas. since the climategate news broke, al gore has stopped responding to my fan mail (is he ok? has anyone seen him?). and since the nearest neighbor is miles and miles away, i have no one with whom i can discuss global warming business ideas.
you sir, however, have a bold sense of true entrepreneurialism. i will at once begin drafting the necessary legal documents for the "ice/land thing/idea" you've proposed.
in the meantime, i will continue with the Global Warming theme park plans here in the far north. we poured the footers for the united nations roller coaster last july right before the snows and the deep freeze set in so we'll be ready just in case the deniers are wrong.
it's a win-win.
Fraud is always a crime if you can prove fraud. If you can't then it is just a talking point.
"Leftest scum"? Well, you are hardly an unbiased opinion are you?
I'm sure it must be Eric Holder and the Black Panthers who are making you so unhappy. Good for them.
In my opinion it seems that the answer to your question is YES the government would have a claim against a private company/scientist that deviated from their contract to create false conclusions/results (If I'm understanding your question correctly), but…………………………in this case, talking about man-made global warming, the governments around the world seem to have wanted the very conclusions these scientist produced so that they could use those conclusions to create the very economic policies that steal both liberty and wealth from their citizens. So in the end I don't think these governments would want to press charges, they are in on this whole scam and knew that false science would have to be used so they could get their predetermined results. Remember that "The Ends Justify The Means" to these progressives so not only will these governments likely not charge anyone, they will likely be the ones to protect their fellow scam artists.
oh great. it sounds like things are going to get worse for me and my starving children.
however, OklahomaBound, you've given me an idea – instead of a Global Warming theme park, i will call the land "Eugenics Land" where we will sterilize the blacks, the jews, many of the irish (i've always been suspicous of them) and the feeble-minded. i don't know much about medicine but i've always fancied myself to be something of a central planner. plus, it'll be easy – i just have to dig out my old margaret sanger letters and woodrow wilson speeches to figure out how to do it. we'll throw in lobotomies too. i bet the reimbursements for those will be great under obamacare!
now i know i can get federal funding for this idea!
OklahomaBound, you're a genius.
You're funny…. I hope you are still laughing when the EPA caps the carbon emissions of American power production. I will be.
You are dead on airborne, but keep in mind that our chief law enforcement officer is Eric Holder, a fellow progressive with his boss Comrade Obama and the same guy who refused to charge the Black Panther thugs who intimidated voters at the polls in PA even after those Panthers failed to make their court appearance and thus were considered guilty. If we are to pin our hopes of justice on a guy and administration who are in league with the movement and scientist behind this GW scam then it will be a cold day in He!! before we get that justice…pun intended. ;o) Maybe in 2012 after Obama has been kicked out the door investigations and charges can be filed.
ROCKEFELLER AND SNOWE DEMAND THAT EXXON MOBIL END FUNDING OF CAMPAIGN THAT DENIES GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE
Senators Demand that the World’s Largest Oil Maker Make Public Its History of Funding Climate Change “Skeptics”
October 30, 2006
WASHINGTON, D.C. – In an effort to call attention to the detrimental effects of industry-funded, so-called “research” in the debate on global climate change, Senators John (Jay) Rockefeller IV (D-WV) and Olympia Snowe (R-ME) today called on the world’s largest oil company to end its funding of a climate change denial campaign. Rockefeller and Snowe’s effort would also reassert the leading role of the United States in addressing important global issues that demand the world’s collective attention.
Rockefeller and Snowe said that ExxonMobil’s extensive funding of an “echo chamber” of non-peer reviewed pseudo-science had unfortunately succeeded in raising questions about the legitimate scientific community’s virtually universal findings on the detrimental effects of global warming. This ongoing “debate” has also damaged America’s reputation as a leader in global affairs.
“American companies have every right to engage in important public debates, but these discussions should neither serve as a license to obscure credible data and research nor impede domestic and international actions based on that data,” said Rockefeller. “Climate change is one of the most serious environmental and economic issues facing the United States and our partners in the international community. It is absolutely irresponsible for any entity to try to influence our government’s involvement in such an important debate in any way that is not scrupulously accurate and honest.”
“The institutions that ExxonMobil is supporting are producing very questionable data. The company’s support for a small, but influential, group of climate skeptics has damaged the United States’ reputation by making our government appear to ignore conclusive data on climate change and the disastrous effects climate change could have.”
“ExxonMobil – which recorded $10.5 billion in third quarter profits this year – has an obligation and a responsibility to the global community to refrain from lending their support, financial and otherwise, to bogus, non substantiated articles and publications on climate change that serve only to cloud the important global debate of rigorous peer-reviewed research and writings,” Senator Snowe said. “The efforts of those supported by ExxonMobil foster the false belief among the international community that the United States is insensitive to global warming and unwilling to engage in forthright discussion on what many consider to be one of the most important economic and environmental issues of the 21st century.”
“Rather than continue to damage our credibility abroad, I urge ExxonMobil, under its new leadership, to work with those of us in Congress who are committed to moving our nation back to the negotiating table and leading the way toward greater energy efficiencies, and clean alternative and renewable fuels. ExxonMobil has the tremendous opportunity to employ its significant resources and assist the United States and the world by promoting the technological innovations necessary to address climate change and help develop a global solution to this undeniably global problem.”
According to reports, in 2004 alone, ExxonMobil was the primary funder of more than 29 climate change denial front groups. Since the late 1990s, ExxonMobil has spent more than $19 million on a strategy of “information laundering,” enabling a small number of professional skeptics, working through so-called scientific organizations, to funnel their viewpoints through non-peer-reviewed websites, such as http://www.techcentralstation.com.
“Climate change denial has been so effective because the ‘denial community’ has mischaracterized the necessarily guarded language of serious scientific dialogue as vagueness and uncertainty,” Rockefeller and Snowe wrote ExxonMobil Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Rex Tillerson. “ExxonMobil is responsible for much of this scientific data debate and support of global warming deniers.”
Rockefeller and Snowe insisted that ExxonMobil end its funding of the climate change denial campaign by the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) and other organizations with similar purposes. The two Senators also encouraged ExxonMobil and Tillerson to make its history of funding public and acknowledge the dangers and realities of climate change.
Finally, Rockefeller and Snowe suggested that Tillerson, as the company’s new CEO, has a unique opportunity to change the culture of the company: “You will become the public face of an undisputed leader in the world energy industry and a company that plays a vital role in our national economy. As that public face, you will have the ability and responsibility to lead ExxonMobil toward its rightful place as a good corporate and global citizen.”
The entire letter is attached.
October 27, 2006
Mr. Rex W. Tillerson
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
ExxonMobil Corporation
5959 Las Colinas Boulevard
Irving, TX 75039
That's what democratic governments of the world want… to steal the liberty and wealth of its citizens. There is nothing conspiratorial or crazy about that statement. It a giant scheme to rule the world and only high school graduates can see it… why won't the elites listen to us?
Good luck to you, I only hope that the left doesn't punish you for buying this land that clearly belongs to the polar bears by proclaiming you and your starving children as polar bear food.
Than the only thing we will have to concern ourselves with is what to do with all the polar bears.
Now that's a good one. Some right wing whack jobs make a pointless claim with no science to back it up and it's the medias fault for not reporting it. Remember the first rule of news is it must be news. Then when possible, it must be factual. So the black helicopter crazy crowd is never going to get as much coverage as they think they deserve.
UFO believers thank god for the internet everyday too. The networks will just not listen to them when someone guts a cow on the farm.
I wouldn't concern yourself with Polar bears… they are already as good as dead.
What a disappointment you turned out to be. And here I though you were a real frontier type enterprising American. Self made man, all that good stuff.
Way to go Oklahoma, you have turned our Dan'l Boone into a welfare recipient.
Fraud has already been proven in the GW scam, once their co-conspirator politicians running the many socialist governments, our included, are replaced by conservatives then charges can be filed and justice applied.
People who think the Constitution is a living document that can therefore be bend to a progressive agenda and who steal my liberties and my money so it can be redistributed to lazy basement dwelling leftist have that effect on me. Maybe you're right, I should be more tolerant of people who redistribute my hard earned wealth and freedom. People like Eric Holder and Comrade Obama do make me unhappy, but I am comforted by the knowledge that their power will be negated in November of this year and that in 2012 they will be joining the massive unemployment lines that they created so don't feel too bad for me, I'm feeling happier every day. Can you say Scott Brown?!
LOL, unintentionally I assure you Chicago Ralph! I'm sure theoriginalmike will use his enterprising capitalist spirit to see this as a learning experience and end up thriving in some southern red state where hard work and ingenuity are still appreciated over victimhood and handouts.
hi mikatollah, how are you doing? i haven't been insulted by you since last week. i was beginning to think you didn't care anymore. so nice to hear from you! have a super duper day!
can we use the polar bears to eat the patients in our eugenics theme park? we can put ketchup on them.
ACORN has been around for 40 years and Republicans have been complaining about their "fraud" the entire time. The Bush justice department investigations didn't go anywhere… why do you think president Palin will be able to do any better?
What have you done to "earn your freedom"? Even your wealth you owe to your good fortune to be born here in America. Not that Oklahoma is any bargain, but it sure beats The Sudan or Pakistan.
You do know Scott Brown is pro choice?
Lets see Democrazies were in charge of the congress from 07 on….they make the laws not the president….bush should be like obama…i didnt make back room deals…throw it back on them
Great, so what I take from this letter is that two government officials…the same government that are neck deep in promoting global warming hysteria in order to increase federal power are telling Exxon that they can't fund research contradicting the governments decision. Earth shattering!
I hate to break it to ya.. but everyone has a dog in this fight. The government, Exxon, even me and you all have some vested interest in seeing this theory get trashed or succeed. Do you know what that means? NOTHING!
What matters is the data and the predictions made by the data. From my perspective no one is benevolent in this fight… especially the pro AGW advocates. Whether Exxon is guilty of the same thing still doesn't change the fact data has been manipulated and hidden.In addition, it sure as heck doesn't change the fact there is massive propaganda being fed to people by both sides.
Mike I hope I haven't offended you today. I like to think of myself as "equal opportunity" type of offensive. You know, not singling any one out, just generally offensive to everyone…. an affirmative action offender.
I think that would be allowable, leftist hate people and love animals so feeding people to polar bears would probably be a compromise they would go for. See, good for you, I suggested you may have a problem and instead of panicking you came up with an excellent solution. You are destined for great things my friend, this is truly American ingenuity at its best !
It would be tricky. I am not a lawyer, but someone would have to file as a "friend of the court"? I believe it is called, on behalf of the government
A civil case may be trickier. A third party must prove damages, but the problem is proving the IPCC or any of their co conspirators are liable.
Most of us never heard of ACORN until election before last and I'm sure Bush's failure to go after them on the Federal level was likely due to the accusations of being called a racist that the left would have level against him if he had pursued them. This is the power of political correctness which is why the left created it as a self censorship weapon to silence the right.
I never mentioned Palin so I don't know where that question came from.
I did not earn my freedom, God and our founding fathers gave it to us and our military and Constitution protect it. Are you suggesting that we should not be free or don't deserve it?
Yes I do consider myself very lucky to have been born in the US, God gave me freedom and our Constitution provides me the rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness, but right now we are in a fight against progressives who are trying to take those rights from us here and I will fight to the end to preserve what I have for myself and future generations.
Yes I heard Scott Brown was pro-abortion/pro-baby killing, he's not perfect, but he will stop Obama's unconstitutional health care redistribution bill so he'll do for now.
"why won't the elites listen to us? "
Give them a copy of Mein Kampf.
Well what about Americans, can we still a few of them.
Wow ! do you think you can bottle that kinda stuff and maybe send me some, because I know a lot of folks here on the south side of my town that can sure use some of this hard work and ingenuity.
You see, that hope and change stuff did not quite pan out for them.
OK Rex I can understand you want to put on a Mr. clean front.
But i think Josh is a little to you and I tend to agree with him.
The bottom line is that we have hitched our wagon on to capitalism and we a comfortable with that.
Oil is an integral part of this way of life, but it is admittedly a 20th century commodity and it will, more than likely, be replaced sometime in this, the 21st century. However, this inevitable transistion does not have to be a cold shower by way of Copenhagen Dreaming.
First and foremost the transition cannot be detrimental to the well being of the American economy but equally important, it should not be initiated as result of, as Josh says, date that is manipulated and hidden.
My God do we really want to start this century based on cooked books.
r
I love monkeys, do you like monkeys?
True, but no law gets past the president without a signature or veto override. The Dems with their narrow majorities didn't get anything past Bush. He was in charge until the day he left last year.
Obama is the greatest climate change scientist ever created, he will tax and cap your conservative asses back into the stone age!
H AH AH AHAH
But the joke is on you. You won't be able to collect any more government assistance. HaHa? What are you 12?
Have you ever tried to read it? It is rambling racists nonsense. Unreadable.
No one ever mentions it anymore except students and right wing bloggers.
As long as I can keep the stones that I collect, I got no problem going back to square one.
So go ahead JPA keep sawing the limb you are sitting on, but you may want to look and see if you are on the tree side of the cut.
Utterly scathing. Who knew representatives of American left occupy that rung below the stereotypical "trailer trash"?
[...] View original post here: » Leake and the London Times: Climate Scientists thwarted FOIA … [...]
The climate is fine, climategate is heating up.
"Right wing economic policies led to the great depression and led to the financial meltdown of 2008."
Spoken like a true drone. The ironic thing, mika, is that, while you rail against greedy bankers and corporations, you are a tool–a hack; a "useful idiot"–of both. The culprit was not "right wing economic policies," nor even left-wing economic policies. It was the practice of fractional reserve banking, which allows banks to loan out their depositors' money on the hope that their depositors won't demand all their money back at once, leaving the banks unable to satisfy their obligations.
This practice led both to the easy loans available to potential market investors of modest means (the essential cause of the Wall Street crash of '29), and to the failures of thousands of banks nationwide (the essential cause of the Great Depression). Had banks been merely places of safekeeping for one's money, which money could not be loaned out absent the depositors' approval and which would remain unavailable to the depositor until it came back into the bank in the form of sceduled loan repayments, the crash would have been far less likely (and in any case far less severe), and the bank failures impossible.
There's more to the story, such as the establishment of a central, national bank (the so-called Federal Reserve System–all three of those words being completely dishonest euphemisms designed to conceal the fact that the Fed is, in fact, a national bank), and the regime of fiat money that survives to this day, further impoverishing the poor and enriching the rich due to the inflationary effect of magicians conjuring greenbacks out of thin air. (A central bank, tightly regulated by and associated with the government–if not outright owned and operated by it–is, of course, an essential tenet of Marxism/Socialism/Communism and an idea despised by true conservatives, but hey, who am I to rain on your little right-bashing parade here?) I'll leave it at that for now due to time and space restrictions.
The upshot is that, if you approve of our immoral financial laws, which allow bankers to gamble other peoples' money, and you further approve of the equally immoral mechanisms we employ to try to prop that system up, then yes, your criticisms of Hoover have some merit. He was trying to apply the principles of a different, moral financial system to the system which actually existed–a system opposite in many ways in nature, and necessarily operating in many ways according to socialist–i.e. left-wing–economic principles. On the other hand, if you don't approve of our financial system here in America, what the hell are you doing championing the likes of FDR over Hoover? FDR didn't do anything to alter or firm up the underlying structure; he simply added more patches to our persistently and increasingly leaky boat.
(I'll skip over the meltdown of 2008 because I've already gone on too long,, other than to say that, underlying defects in our system aside, the cause was governmental interference in the financial markets, not any lack of regulation. Government incentivized the banks to do what they did, and in some cases outright demanded it of them.)
Where is Al Gore? Why isn't he out in the spotlight explaining how all of this wild speculation and obvious propaganda could make its way into what is supposed to be peer reviewed science?
I wonder how the Goracle's carbon credit offset business is going.
"and aerosol cans which i spray towards that damn ozone trying desperately to diminish it and make my global warming dream come true…."
thats very very funny. im not sure whether or not this is you on a comedic rant, or, perhaps this truly is your life? hope its the former, but either way, keep on writing.
"Showing these people as the frauds they are is nice, but you need to hit these people where it hurts–the wallet."
No, you need to snap their necks very publicly in a noose. Only the finality and irreversability of certain death has a chance of deterring political fanatics such as these. Neither incarceration nor hitting them in their pocketbooks will have the desired effect–incarceration because their leftist fellow-travelers have so engineered it that prisons are now relatively habitable environments, and confiscation of their money because the Left these days has very deep pockets and will see that their servants are reimbursed.
thank you so much, criminal solicitors but i am afraid that it is true.
al gore's movie was so convincing to me that i did take the plunge. the part where the icebergs go crashing down into the sea was so dramatic, so compelling that i demanded my entire inheritance from my father and purchased this scrub acreage from several poor farmers whose families had been starving here for generations. now, i'm afraid my family and i will starve here.
it just doesn't make sense.
whenever i watched katie couric or one of the other trusted news anchors, they told me that global warming was imminent, that we must act now and be prepared. i pored over interviews with rajendra pachauri and became even more and more convinced that my move into the Great White North was a speculation which would turn out well. on the news at night i saw interviews with skinny europeans in T-shirts who were protesting big oil, fat cats and carbon emissions. they were all so impassioned and convincing.
the trend is one's friend, no? i went with the trend.
then…….climategate. it is as if my world has collapsed. it's all unraveled so fast that i don't know where to turn.
i feel like such a fool. to cap it off, i recently saw a picture of rajendra pachauri. how could i have believed someone who looks like a troll that lives under a bridge in a dark forest?
and worst of all, he's trained as a railway engineer!!! i thought he was a scientist! i'm not even sure what a railway engineer does! is he the guy who wears the striped hat and gets to blow the horn when the train approaches town?
ah, it's no use. i offer my story here, i suppose, simply so that the folly of my life might serve as a warning to others – don't trust malnourished europeans wearing T shirts protesting during the day when they should be at work.
remember: "global warming helps shallow people feel socially activated."
no mik, thanks for feigning concern but you haven't offended me. i was just away from the computer for a couple of hours. a polar bear chased me into a tree and held me prisoner. i had a high powered rifle; i could have shot him but defending myself would have been against governmental regulations.
enjoy your evening.
What I don't get is how they say 6 months have passed since the crime was committed. Since the information under teh FOI request was not released, surely this is an onging crime?
What did you do with the real Dhasselhoff?
No, Eagle1. I have it. "JUPITER is SHRINKING! If we don't stop this from happening, the sun will go out! PS ITS ALL OUR FAULT!"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
If it were some scribblings from a nobody it would be useless nonsense. But it's not. It from one of the most infamous people in history. It provides insight to a mind that achieved great, and horrendous things. It tells you what he wanted to accomplish and why. Had Stalin, Chamberlain, Thyssen, Col. Milner, Schacht read it, the world may be completely different. When a madman tells you he's going to do something, you should pay attention.
And when Soros writes a book saying he wants to create a world government, funded by a CO2 tax scheme, destroy the sovereignty of the US, and spends X$10 millions doing it, I pay attention, and so should you.
We are still in the nice nice stage of this. The statist see their goal in sight and are gettng restless. But we're still pretending this is all civilized. You're right, there is no negotiating with them. They are fanatics. But, they must be forced or tricked into showing their cards first. Austria, Chech, the Balkans. Remember, anarchy plays into their hands by giving them the excuse to "restore" order, even if it is their agents who were responsible for the trouble. In the meantime, our most powerful weapon is the truth. Scandals such as this CO2 scheme shows them for what they are. The real importance of lawsuits is to follow the money to find their masters.
[...] » Leake and the London Times: Climate Scientists thwarted FOIA … [...]
More idiocy from the village idiot. Creating Fannie, Freddie and the CRA were right-wing policies?
The economy functions best when *left alone*- something the Statists simply can't bring themselves to do.
"Not that Oklahoma is any bargain, but it sure beats The Sudan or Pakistan."
Beats Michigan and California, too: poster children for Liberal-Induced Economic Basket-case Syndrome.
Yes, you think fascist poverty is a laff riot. You're not simply wrong: you're evil.
Perhaps you might want to check out the statements of Maurice Strong and Carol Browner re: "global governance." And then those of Gordon Brown and Ban Ki-Moon.
Tell me, Grasswhopper- when have governments *ever* passed up an opportunity to tax?
(Gotta love the lefty-patent "high school graduates" crack)
6 months to late to prosecute after the offence? I think you will find that is a misquote of the law, which I understand is 6 months after the offence comes to light, and as the offence came to light less recently than 6 months ago, I think that politicians are looking for excuses not to prosecute this guy, as this scientist named Jones may name and shame some of them if he goes down
I love the exxon angle on this. Lets be clear about two most important Issues in the climategate files: Those issues as I identified them are UHI ( urban heat island) and the Hockey Stick Studies ( chapter 6 of the 4th Assessment)
If you look back at the founding of the IPCC you will find these two issue lie at the core.
What two issues and what two blogs and what two individuals dominate the contrarian universe: UHI and the Hockey Stick; Wattsupwiththat.com and ClimateAudit.org; Anthony Watts and Stephen McIntyre.
And how do these issue stay alive, blogs stay popular, and men stay at the center of the controversy? not through the support of any outside entity. NONE. As personal friends of mine I know the sacrifices they make to do this volunteer work. Why do this issues persist after all these years? Not because these skeptics are supported by Oil ( heck the CRU takes money from Shell) but because the scientists refuse to follow the procedures in science. They refuse to share data and code with these fellows. Refuse to even acknowledge them when then point out errors. In the case of Hansen, he refuses to even say McIntyre's name. Of course corporations fund junk science. They fund junk science on the part of contrarians and junk science on the part of CRU. They always play both sides until the winner becomes clear. But they are truly playing on the margin. The main battle is over UHI and the Hockey Stick.
and that fight has been fought effectively since 2007 by volunteers. Two guys in PJs and their readers. As you read the mails you will see the climate scientists making the same mistake. They think that McIntyre and Watts are corporate shills. They don't understand their opponents, and all the tactics they use to deal with them fail.
Watch my video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7I_eFoIk64
It’s about climate change, earth catastrophe and our planet as we lives in.
Thank you.
When you look at all the scare stories pumped out, it becomes obvious that government grants have perverted science through a system of bribes to come up with dire predictions. Just think of all the horror stories masquerading as news. If you can keep 'em scared, you can keep 'em controlled.
I seriously doubt you have read either Soros or Hitler. But I'll bet you have read plenty of right wing blogs that also make the same claims as you… or is that coincidence?
Detroit is a victim of Reaganomics and Clintonomics.
But I'm fun at parties…
Sorry about the crack… didn't mean to offend the high school dropouts.
They had HOPED we were stupid and they had HOPED we were gullible. They've be proven wrong on both accounts and they HOPE we will do nothing, of course they are wrong about that as well. What do you expect from self-delusional people?
Yawwwwwn.
Michigan is the victim of having been run by out-of-control liberals for
years, and establishing (along with CA) one of the top three most hostile
business climates in the nation. Detroit itself- well, besides the city's
hypercorrupt dysfunctional government, the UAW parasites finally killed
their hosts.
If \”Reaganomics and Clintonomics\” weere so terrible, then why did other,
more sanely run states prosper?
You mean like Mississippi and Alabama?
Wow, in answer to a legitimate statement, condescension. What an effective way to win a discussion. Still, you have been diligent in responding.
"Open Society", and "Bubble….Supremacy" Everything I said is right there, written by Soros himself, in his own words, his vision of the future. So, unless his latest book says "just kidding", read and learn. As for Kampf, if you had read it then you would understand the dire warnings that the world ignored. That lesson that has driven American policy for fifty years, and sometimes applied when not applicable. If you haven't read them, then I suggest that you stop defending things you are ignorant of, and stop assuming that the left is the sole source of knowledge in the world. If you would stop listening to the kool aid peddlers, and understand that the right can provide as much insight as the left, you might actually gain some understanding of what is happening.
[...] Proof that the motley CRU showed no regard for lawful requests for information. [...]
I have read the material that I have claimed, and clearly you have not.
Hitler explained his ideas of other races, and that he intended to carry out solutions. He explained his concepts of lebensraum in the east. And his thoughts on the people who lived there. Had anyone read it, they would have understood his intentions. Its in his book. read it. You can not dispute facts.
Why do you think Soros titled a book "Open Society"? His principal for governance is that of an "open society', which is also why he named his political organization that. He calls for an international regulatory group (a government) with the authority (power) to level taxes and penalties (enforcement) on international financal transactions and pollution trading, against countries based on their degree of "co operation" with carrying out the "open society" (a political agenda) recommendations of this un-elected global body (oligarchy). He clearly states that any country not cooperating (exercising sovereignty) will be financally ruined (coercion). Its in his books. read them. You can not dispute facts.
You cannot even offer factual arguments to disprove my statements. You are either a trouble maker, closed minded, or a paid operative.
I was on another blog over at yale, talking about something similar and the scientists in the debate were infuriated that (so many) people disbelieved their views on the future and one from the new scientist magazine stated "tens of thousands of scientists have spent their lives studying and researching climatology, are you calling them all liars?"
My answer? Well, errrr… no…. not ALL of them….
Don't get me wrong, there's clearly a problem, but the why's and wherefore's are wayyyy too complex to be addressed with a simple 'do this and do it now or we all die…"
if you havent lost your appetite for cinema and you fancy watching another film to try and wash down the bitter taste of al gore, have a look at loose change! which is available in chunks on youtube. I met the producer at a Q&A session after it was screened in london. in stark contrast to inconvenient truth this focuses on exposing the convenient lies surrounding a subject thats right up there with bigger than global warming.
anyway, how' are the whiskey supplies and aerosol cans holding out up there?
There is no argument to win here. I was making an observation. You parrot right wing talking points and claim to have read material you clearly have no knowledge of… go sell it somewhere else.
I can dispute the spin you put on "facts". In "Open Society", Soros advocates for an alliance of democratic states to actively engage civil societies to remain true to democratic principles and to strengthen international law and strengthen democracy inside individual countries. Somehow you look at his polemic and see evil. I don't.
I can dispute the spin you put on "facts". In "Open Society", Soros advocates for an alliance of democratic states to actively engage civil societies to remain true to democratic principles and to strengthen international law and strengthen democracy inside individual countries. Somehow you look at his polemic and see evil. I don't.
Finally, a coherent response, and a contribution to discussion.
Yes GS uses many terms that sound peachy keeny. However, his concept of democracy appears to be manufactured consensus. Manufactured by who? Why his think tanks and NGOs of course. He is actively supporting groups whos' goals are the destruction of US. I do not consider La Raza a pro US organization. I do not think legalized drug use contributes to a sustainable democracy. The people of the Soviet Union had plenty of elections to vote in, of course every canidate had the same agenda. And that's GS's idea of democracy. America is a right center country. But what do the people know? GS plans on taking care of that. When GS didn't like what was happening in east Europe, he funded the color revolutions. When he didn't like American politics he created a dozen NGOs and bought the Dem party and turned them into socialists. No one creates a 'shadow party' with good intent.
And who is to take the lead in his brave new world? An ill defined global governance. No mention of elections there. And based on what authority? The consent of the people? Not. Assuming that they are run as effectively as the UN, how long before they devolve into another klepocracy, or worse. Except with the power to enforce their will over the entire earth. National sovereignty exists only as an administrative aid. No one will be able to counter balance their power. And who will these committee members setting world policy be? Representitives from China? Congo? Cuba, now there's a beacon of freedom I'ld trust to protect my rights. The entire idea is disastrous. Let GS run his little experiment in Indonesia. Oh, that's right, they'ld probably stone him for what he did to them. GS is famous for his 'the market made me do it' excuse to squirm out of responsibility for the destruction and suffering that he has caused.
You must look beyond the flowery words and derive the intent. And nothing speaks to intent louder than actions. And right now his actions are undermining the greatest country ever devised by mankind.
Soros is opposed to Socialism and Communism. He doesn't fear them because as he said, they have been thoroughly discredited in the 20th century. That is why he sees market fundamentalism as a much greater threat to a free society because people still believe they are a cure for what ails society. But while free market capitalism is great for taking care of individual needs, it falls short in dealing with the needs of a society.
I get accused of being a Communist or a Socialist on this list by people who have no concept of political ideology other than what they pick up on blogs. The truth is, I believe that well regulated capital markets are the greatest economic engine ever invented by man. We get into trouble when we trust them to police themselves or when we rely on them to handle social responsibilities like police and fire protection or health care delivery.
good morning, criminal solicitor.
thank you for inquiring after my supply of whiskey and aerosol cans. however, i must point out that it is not just plain, old whiskey. from a young age, the males of my line are taught that single malt scotch provides us with one of the keys to the universe. hence, before we moved to this sad, cold tundra, i put up quite an inventory of la phroiag, one of my favourites.
as for the science and scientist behind the global warming, i have seen enough. circumstances have forced me to change my mind altogether and now i am firmly planted in the camp of the "Deniers," i believe they are called. the long span of history teaches us that what passes for science in one generation passes away in the next. it is, i suppose, quite appropriate, in a culture drive by "texnei," or technology, that we have a natural tendency to elevate scientists and to treat them as if they were infallible, as if they were gods. however, referencing history again, cultures which forsake the mythological for the sake of the scientific usually end up quite badly.
thank you also for the video link. i tried to play it for the wife and children in the cabin last night but they hooted and shouted it down. after all we've been through out here in the wilderness, they wanted something a bit lighter…..so we watched 2 or 3 episodes of south park online and called it a night. if you are not a devotee of south park, i urge you to go to comedy central online where you can watch full episodes for free. south park offers one a sense of consolation in these trying times.
i will, however, make time to watch loose change and report back to you.
good news, however. i am meeting today with a group of investors who are quite interested in my thousands of acres of wilderness. apparently, there is a massive natural gas deposit called the marcellus shale which runs right beneath us. there is a bit of an oklahoma land grab going on in these parts and i expect this transaction to work out quite well for us.
Fortuna has once again deigned to smile upon my lineage.
with the profit i make on this land deal, i will have some leisure to contemplate my next speculation. if you have any advice along these lines, please do not hesitate to advise.
p.s. – beware the chatter that comes from places like yale. in America these days, you will find more honest intellectual effort at small, out of the way community colleges than you will at our ivy league shrines.
The capitalist system is the only method that provides for the functioning of society while emphasizing individual choice. For this system to function, there must be an voluntary exchange between two or more parties. That's all there is to it. The moment any party acts to conceal information, the transaction is based on deceipt and manipulation. It no longer meets the definition. The capital markets could in theory follow that defintion, however they do not, and probably never have. Insider trading, short selling, derivatives, insurances, such as CDS, are an extension of fraud by deception. By alleviating the consequences from the associated party, the assumed 'moral hazard' that parties rely to assure an honest and comprehensive exchange, is removed from the transaction. The direction of regulation should therefore be directed at issues of transparency, and honesty. Government's role should be that of referee, not engineer. Instead, politicians have attempted to interject ideas on the direction or equality of outcome. These have led to tremendous market disruptions.
Yet, instead of addressing these issues, GS chooses to focus on mitigating the effect of these disruptions by implementing extremely risky changes to society. All the while enjoying the benefits he derives from the system he disparages. Those changes, when followed to natural extension, have a high probability of leading to disaster.
When parties stand to benefit from these actions, it is extremely important to verify the integrity of the process. Which brings us to this blog, and the potential danger posed by the corruption of science as appears from the growing climategate fraud. Who would benefit from it, who was paying for it, and who should be going to jail?
Referee… my words exactly! But the problem is ever since Ronald Reagan the Republicans have made the government out to be this evil in our midst and that has allowed them to do things like repeal the very banking safeguards that protected us from the moral hazard. So then we over reach in the other direction and put too much regulation on capital markets.
The disruption in capital markets was created by the lack of oversight, not from too much. Especially the financial markets. You can't create an entire new class of debt instruments and insure them like they were demand deposits but with no oversight, and then be shocked when the system melts down… it was not a matter of if, but when.
Well, we seem to agree on fundamental economics…
but then you have to throw in a partisan jab..
Community reinvestment act? repeal Glass Steagal, Frank and Waters protecting the fraud of fannie and freddie? Even now, the D congress is whitewashing the investigation into what happened on Wall St. How many Goldman alum are in the White House?
Stop looking at parties for heros and villians as if it wasn't both of them that drink from the trough of corruption. The Fed, Goldman, and Morgan have far too much influence. The last fifty years have been about buying the public off with band aid social programs based on pyramid scheme financing, while looting the country into third world status. Hundreds of billions of US tax dollars have been sent overseas under these bailout schemes, yet, the Fed audit is being sidetracked. Why?
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