Senator Jon Kyl’s Bad Bet
by Rich MunyOn the heels of the huge GOP victory in the Massachusetts Senate race, Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) decided to stand up to the Obama administration with one of the strongest weapons at his disposal — he halted Senate votes on Treasury Department nominees.
As there are a number of areas where the conservative movement takes issues with administration objectives, this is a target-rich environment. A strong stand here could show America what the Republican Party stands for and what the party will fight for. So, is Kyl standing up for improvements in the health care bill, reduced federal spending, or limits on federal power? No, he is not. Sadly, Sen. Kyl is wasting this powerful, one-shot weapon to register his dissatisfaction with the administration’s granting of a delay in implementing Internet poker and gaming-related financial regulations — a delay that was requested by his fellow Republicans.
The law for which Kyl pushed with so much vigor for so many years is fatally flawed. Despite a decade of trying, beginning with his attempt to add a national online poker and gaming prohibition to the Crime Prevention Act of 1995, Kyl found himself unable to pass an online gaming prohibition through Congress. In 2006, he settled for a law prohibiting money from going from U.S. financial transactions to sites offering “unlawful Internet gambling.” To move this through the Senate, Kyl had this bill tacked on to the must-pass SAFE Port Act in the middle of the night just as the 2006 Congressional term was coming to a close. Thus, the Senate never even voted on this as a free-standing bill.
The law that resulted — the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) — turned out to be as half-baked as its “passage” by the Senate. The law orders financial institutions to locate and block some financial transactions. However, neither the Act nor its regulations define “unlawful Internet gambling.” As a result, banks and credit card companies, including credit card giant MasterCard, have said they will block U.S.-based horse race wagering transactions, this despite the fact that such wagering should be considered clearly lawful and authorized under the Interstate Horse Racing Act. Other online transactions that have never been found to be unlawful are threatened as well, and affected parties have no recourse or appeal.
The bottom line is that UIGEA is completely unworkable and unenforceable. Many traditionally conservative organizations agree that the act needs to be fixed. These groups include the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, many financial institutions and credit unions, Americans for Tax Reform, and the Competitive Enterprise Institute.
As a result of the many problems with UIGEA, twenty-one Republican lawmakers wrote to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner to ask him to delay implementation of the regulations that enact key provisions of the law for six months. Included in this group are Senator Mitch McConnell, the entire Kentucky Congressional delegation, Rep. Peter King, and Rep. Ron Paul. Only two wrote in support of UIGEA — Sen. Kyl and the hapless Rep. Spencer Bachus.
Aside from problems with UIGEA itself, fewer and fewer Americans are looking to Washington for protection from themselves. We saw this in the Brown victory, we see it in the Tea Party movement, and we see it in President Obama’s tanking approval ratings (some Americans think they support Obama’s goals in abstract, but many quickly oppose them upon learning of the cost and the loss of liberty). The conservative movement is moving back to its roots — liberty, free markets, and less regulation. While we conservatives definitely still believe in traditional values, we believe the best way protect our values is to keep them away from Washington bureaucrats.
Additionally, not so many Americans even see poker as a values issue these days. Every state but Utah and Hawaii has legalized some gaming. Poker is a very popular game on television as well as at kitchen tables and computer screens in homes of many everyday Americans. Poker players have even organized themselves. The Poker Players Alliance, chaired by former GOP Senator Alfonse D’Amato, boasts a membership of over one million. This group is active in mobilizing its membership and has a strong presence on Capitol Hill.
As a result of the mainstreaming of poker, Americans now realize that the talking points of those who wish to stop others from playing poker are quite exaggerated. The dwindling ranks of poker prohibitionists (who represent the final remnants of the Prohibitionists of the Progressive Era) will say whatever they think needs to be said to persuade others to vote for poker bans. No one knows if they are lying on purpose or are simply clouded by their preconceptions, but fortunately there are real studies and real experiences from which to draw data.
As I mentioned in my last column, the UK, a nation with ample licensed online and “bricks and mortar” gaming, has a problem gaming rate of just 0.6%. This is unchanged from the pre-Internet gaming days of 1999. That is hardly the dire situation anti-gaming folks would have us believe. Likewise, online poker is available right now in all fifty states, and there has been no massive explosion of people with excessive gaming habits. Also, as online poker is already widespread throughout America, poker rights supporters are not seeking an expansion of online poker. Rather, they simply seek to bring the industry onshore, where it will create American jobs while placing the industry under the auspices of American law.
The old GOP — the ones voters tossed out of office in 2006 and 2008 — may have supported things like this Act, though only after party operatives checked the political calculus to ensure it would appease a faction of the party and not alienate too many others. The new conservatism, on the other hand, believes in bedrock principles like limited government. It’s time for Kyl to take a step back, look at what has transpired since 2008, and embrace our new, revived conservative movement. If the Republican Party can do this, the winning hand we drew in Massachusetts may hold up on Election Day this November.
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103 Comments
Give it a rest already. This does not even make the top 100 list of things we as conservatives should be concerned about.
Sen. Kyl needs to lose his seat. Come on! Leave the internet alone! You've done enough damage already. The surest way to kill or cripple something is to tax and regulate it. With Hussein's war on Banks and the Markets, we need less government intervention, not more. Period!
Hey, if people want to gamble on the internet, so be it. I could really care less and I really hate this type of "pasting" bills on to other legislation to be passed in the night in a clearly flawed manner.
Can't these Senators stand up, defend there bills and get an up – down vote on this stuff?
A POX on both their houses, Dem and GOP, for this kind of stuff…
Wrong. This is the type of big-government "conservatism" that detracts from the message the GOP needs in the next two election cycles. People want to be left alone, and one reason Republicans suffered such bloody defeats in 2006 and 2008 is that they didn't feel like the GOP was on board with leaving people alone.
Giving people the freedom to live their lives represents the best of conservatism. Trying to stop people from playing poker on the internet is a waste of the government's time and money, and it should offend lovers of liberty regardless of how picayune an issue you might think this is. That it's a small thing is an indication of how EASY it ought to be to get it right.
Typical big government republican trying to legislate morality. UIGEA helped create two large online poker sites for U.S. customers and drove the competition away.
How does this stance create jobs?Who is paying this guys airtime?
Thanks for checking out my article. I appreciate the feedback.
In response to your comment, I must wonder why anyone would support Kyl using such a potent weapon on something unimportant. To Kyl, the worst thing Obama did was delay online gaming regs!! After all, he didn't threaten Obama nominees over anything else.
Sorry, but this is EXACTLY what we need to worry about. There is a strain within the movement that believes big government ought to be used for good. I contend that we don't need big government.
And, poker players will not give it a rest. They'll keep speaking out and they'll vote their liberties.
I agree Kyl's action is something to be concerned about. But what he is concerned about is not even on the radar screen of many conservatives. That is what I meant. By the way, good article.
Add him to the list. What a tool…
"How does this stance create jobs?"
Online poker is freely available in all fifty states. Right now, all of that money goes offshore. If we keep it here, it generated jobs in the industry itself (site administration, IT, online security, marketing, etc.). It will also generate jobs via offsetting tax reductions made possible by taxing site profits (hopefully only as much as any other US-based industry would be taxed). Surely we can all agree that the US is better with this money remaining here than flowing offshore (or, more to the point, offshore money flowing to the US).
"Who is paying this guys airtime?"
No one pays my airtime. I wrote this article because I care about my liberty.
Hear, hear!
Gambling is on-par with usury IMO.
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it and I appreciate the compliment.
In my earlier response, I thought you meant I should give it a rest.
My bad.
Yes, IMO Kyl needs to chill on this issue. There are a lot of people out there who really care about Internet freedom, and they'll vote against the GOP over this. They'll also look at Kyl on this and reject our opposition to other bills on limited government grounds by pointing out how it seems that we don't mind big government for things we like.
This is about poker, a game of skill where the house has no financial interest in the outcome of the game. If you don't wish to play, then don't, but it's foolish to assume that Americans lack the intellectual capability to make their own determination regarding playing this game and need big government to make it for them. Also, needless to say, once you entrust big government with this, how can you say government ought not more closely regulate credit card companies or banks? Where would it end?
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Gosh Rich I didn't know you were Obama's jobs creation Czar.
He does seem to need one.
As the only jobs liberals create are government jobs, maybe he needs a good conservative to step in and do that.
You must have fooled DWH. Somehow he thought you were in the business of creating jobs for Obamao. Well, as a conservative, you do. The government just doesn't provide you with a paycheck for doing it. Keep up the good work.
I live in Arizona and will call Kyl's office on Monday to express my displeasure. This is just another intrusion in our every day lives. Why the hell should he care if someone likes to play poker, online or not. You can't save the country by regulation.
Hehe. Too true.
Bourgeois Marxists (so-called "liberals") believe that the moral imperative to charity is so strong that the government has to force us to be charitable. Kyl believes that the moral imperative not to gamble is so strong that the government has to forbid it.
Would somebody please explain to me the difference?
This is another fault of a two party system. Why should one opinion matter? Many ideas should be thrust out to debate and only the much needed would survive in the original system of the founding fathers. Kill the parties and let logic and reason rule the republic!
Jon Kyl is a tool. My hope is that he fades away.
As an online poker player myself and a conservative, this issue has been a very sore point with me. I never thought Barney Frank and I would be on the same side of an issue! I am glad to see that several Republicans senators have requested a delay. I report my winnings on my tax return each year and would be thrilled to see online poker get "domesticated" even if the price of poker went up a bit.
Neo-con Newt Gingrich has issued a public statement claiming that the GOP should cross the aisle and support this scam of health care reform, it's being touted on neo-con Arianna Huffington's site. Can't trust the neo-cons, they are attempting to destroy our economy, and take down our constitution.
Leeta, Kyl's office probably knows me by name, tell them for me too! Ken Gareau
Off Topic – O'reilly in the background, and an ad came on for the US Census. Said, if you don't tell us how many kids you have in the house, how can we give you your fair share? Anyone else hear it? I'm about to explode.
It may be time for another visit to DC, tea pty style. Next time however we need to plan to stay for 10 days/ 2 wks.
Invite some reps & sens out to speak to the unwashed masses. I'm beginning to think each & every one of them
needs 5 chaperons, from the home district, accompanying them at all times. Of course these folks would also
loose touch, so would need to be changed out frequently.
Agreed. I'll vote to legalize online power in the same way i'll vote to legalize herion…
Hi corn.
We will have to stay for 2 weeks and then we will start to smell like Haiti (whose poor people I sympathize with) Maybe DC will have to relocate?
And articulating loudly and clearly it as it applies to the Constitution at every opportunity.
For 15 years Sen. Kyl has been chasing internet wagering like Ahab chased Moby Dick. The back-room deal that Kyl cut with the now retired Sen. Frist back in 2006 to sneak this "law" into a serious Bill concerning Port Security was the exact kind of thing that soured the public on Republicans. It was a classic example of big brother, big government that we conservatives LOATHE. Let's have our banks worry about staying solvent and maybe flagging legit suspicious terrorism related activity and not waste their time on trying to enforce a law regulating something people will do anyway.
Rich – your same logic regarding poker also applies to sports wagering, which is also a "skill" not based on pure chance (the way slot machines and State Lotteries are). Do you also support legalized sports wagering?
Right you are, Rich. This is a total waste of political capital. It's like the guy is reading out of the Obama playbook! Boneheads like this give the GOP a black eye. He needs to lose his seat to someone with some real conservative values.
Sen. Kyl is "kylling" us! Man, you give a retard a gun and the first thing he does is shoot himself in the foot! You're right. He's not smart enough to keep his seat. Many thanks to Rich for pointing out this aspect of the story.
Sure. FWIW, I have nothing against games of chance, either. Rather, I was explaining how poker differs from what "TheFonz" described.
I have something against ME playing games of chance in that I'd not play anything where the house has the advantage, including buying a single lottery ticket, but I've never felt a need to try to use the power of government to stop my neighbors from playing.
Yep. That's one tool that needs to be put back in the box. They still aren't getting it, are they? That's one thing that scares me about Scott Brown. His campaign promise was to look out for the interests of Mass. I'd rather he look out for the interest of the US first.
We need to shrink gov't so that there is no "extra" money to be had by these Senators. That would end the sweetheart deals and pork projects. Let the states keep their money (contributing just enough to fund a small federal gov't) and fund their own projects. That's what we conservatives call "personal responsibility". We should try that for a while.
Smart and articulate. You're on a roll, Rich! I might also point out that while gambling is always voluntary, usury usually isn't.
Where's your proof?
Earth to Senator Kyl: IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID!
Thanks! You're most kind.
Not that I agree with Sen. Kyl, but what do you have against morality? How do you feel about Democrats legislating immorality? You OK with that?
Excellent article and comments Rich, well stated………Hanzo
Instead of a bill to stop the filibuster law, we need a bill to stop tacking on of bills that the people plainly don't want. These bills are tacked on at midnight to bills that have to pass such as war funding,etc. and the officials feel they have to vote for or look like they do not support the troops.
I want a bill that limit's the size of a bill and all bills must have 2 weeks before any vote and must be read by the elected official and not an aide.
The health care bill need not be 2500 pages. The healthcare bill only needs about 5 things to start a good turn around of healthcare in this country. The science of healthcare is great here it is the insurance companies that need reform.
Jon Kyl is a loser and he should not be re-elected. He should mind his own business and go fishing of find something to keep him busy. He should stay out of our lives and not interfere with our personal freedom. Hard to understand how he gets elected?
Thanks Rich, I'm in general agreement. Though I do tend to cringe when I see ads for State-run lotteries, but mainly due to the hypocrisy of the government running what is essentially the "numbers racket" that the mob ran for so many years.
The sad part is I generally agree with Sen. Kyl on most issues, but his almost maniacal pursuit of banning any kind internet wagering and the nefarious way he went about getting the UIGEA passed really turned me against him.
Bravo on the article, very well-defended.
Thanks again!
I also cringe at state-run lotteries. Besides the obvious problems with governments running businesses, some states use the power of law enforcement to fight any hint of competition. Some states break up non-commercial home poker games — with SWAT teams! Statements by public officials after these raids seem to indicate that authorities felt these players were stealing from the state by not buying lotto tickets with that money.
Kyl's state is being over run by illegal aliens and he is worried about internet gambling. What an idiot. His next issue will probably be steroid use in professional volleyball! This is not why we elect anyone.
A message to Washington, stop spending your time and our money on things that don't matter. Get to fixing the country decrease dumb regulations and taxes, increase freedom. This is the best way to fix our economy.
Neo-con Newt Gingrich has issued a public statement claiming that the GOP should cross the aisle and support this scam of health care reform, it's being touted on neo-con Arianna Huffington's site. Can't trust the neo-cons, they are attempting to destroy our economy, and take down our constitution.
Poker? Poker? Come on! War on terror, unemployment, economy, housing free fall, bankruptcies, foreclosures, illegal aliens, and on and on. What the hell is wrong with Washington? Get your heads out of this nickle/dime crap and get down to the real problems. Poker, indeed.
Democrats want all your money. In exchange, they care nothing about morals.
Republicans will let you keep some of your money. In exchange, they want to dictate what is moral.
In the end, they both seek to control our lives. We need to clean house and start over. The federal government only needs to have one job- keep our military in top form, with the best technology and equipment in the universe- to protect us from foreign enemies. I think most of us are capable of handling domestic enemies on our own.
RICH, I AGREE!!!
AND THEY WANT TO SHUT YOU DOWN BELIEVE ME!
THE "PROGRESSIVES" HAVE A PLAN TO CHANGE OUR CONSTITUTION COMPLETELY (MARXISM)!
I wonder how much Kyle cost the internet poker lobby? Not a lot, would be my guess.
Morals are a great thing.
It's even worse when the Democrats do it.
So, we're in the middle of a battle for the very existence of the USA and some dimwit is out chasing little butterflies!? Fire him with the rest of the 'too comfortable in office' crowd.
I want to see EVERY elected official *nervous* about re-election.
Arianna Huffington is a conservative? How delusional do you have to be to believe that? The HuffPo is a looney left web site.
Good point. But DC already smells like Haiti.
What Kyl is doing is just part and parcel with the GOP's obsession with the moral and spiritual lives of the American people.
His kind professes a dislike for big government, but will use that same big government to mandate compulsory government-sanctioned "voluntary" prayer in the workplace. His kind writes laws about what goes on in our bedrooms between consenting adults.
Both of these things do not amount to a hill of beans when compared to deficit spending, pork projects, over-regulatioin of business, and stealing money via inflation. But, his kind care not one bit because he has to save Americans from themselves.
Morality is not any of the government's business. One may think that as long as the values sanctioned by government are the same or nearly the same as their own, that it is alright.
But, keep in mind that in the future, you may have congressmen from Dearbornistan writing morals into law, allowing beheadings, honor killings, and clitorectomies.
A GOOD conservative as jobs czar would start with the hiring of out-placement people to handle all the folks whose snouts he'd pull out of the government trough and send packing. The very last of his assignments would be to terminate all the czars.
The difference is that the "liberals" usually cost us a lot more money and a little bit more freedom. But Kyl needs to be a lot better than this. What is irritating is that he's generally good on the issues.
McCain, who has made a career off stupid-ass legislation like this, is apparently rubbing off on him.
The only people that are to blame for this are the people who vote fools like this into office.
I support morality, but I do not think government is capable of delivering morality to society. As conservatives, I believe we need to protect our values from big government. The idea that big government can make us moral drives big government types on both the left and the right, and it is an idea that fails every time it's tried.
The poker issue is very instructive. Most Americans do not think poker is a sin. In fact, most consider it to be an honorable game. It's not mentioned in the Bible, so IMO it ought not be considered a sin. However, a handful of people do think it's sinful. Some, like Kyl, think it's the most important issue facing America today (as evidenced by his actions). So, what to they do? They act live every other proponent of big government. They seek to use the power of the federal government for force their ideas on their fellow man.
True.
I'd actually start by getting government out of the way of jobs. I'd cut regulations, taxes, and spending, and then I'd watch the free market work its magic. I'd be the job czar who didn't treat the symptom — getting people hired — but who attacked the government-created problems that caused the job issues in the first place.
Kyl created the Internet poker lobby.
Poker players were minding their own business when Kyl and a handful of others started attacking our right to play. To fight back, poker players were forced to form a lobby to protect their rights (a right guaranteed by the First Amendment — the right to petition the government for redress). Now, as a result, DC has one more lobby.
It's funny how people dismiss this as petty issue. I guess principle only counts for the big issues.
What you said I agree with. But, we also need to get all these occupiers of desks out the door and shut the doors on a lot of government facilities. Maybe if the GOP would spend some time doing what they have promised for decades, it'd get the ball rolling. Close down Dept of Ed, Dept of Energy, AMTRAK. CPB, NPR, NEA, etc.
Absolutely. I thought my answer implied that this would have to happen. Yes, we can shut down most of that. I say "most" because we don't have to close Amtrak. Rather, we ought to privatize Amtrak and then let the free market determine if it offers a valuable service or not. We ought to privatize the U.S. Postal Service as well.
It's the liberals other way of saying "re-distribution". This plays well to the entitlement part of the left's base.
STUPID, STUPID, STUPID…!!
Its this crap that got us thrown out of office in the first place…!
Get the financial house in order…PERIOD…!!!
It amazes me how every independent and RINO points out how conservative Republicans want to legislate behavior, (while every Dimocrat is stealing everything nor re-barred in concrete), and then we decide to lean into that punch in the mouth…
We can worry about all that "social engineering" garbage later, AFTER WE SAVE THE REPUBLIC FIRST…!!!
Even smarter would be to let the states decide what they want, or not want, to do…
Kyl, don't ask for cash when its your turn…if you can't focus on this dire threat to the Republic posed by the Congress and the Administration, you can find out what its like to be tossed on your ass as well….
If we don't save America first, we won't have to worry about principles…because we won't have the luxury to abide by any as our children starve…
I could scream at Jon Kyl for going out of his way to be the poster child of "Why Republicans are Evil" to the Center and the Left…
Time for someone else to go…
Not every GOP member is obsessed with moralism…but the ones that are make it horrendous for the rest of us…
YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE MORALITY…!
Amoral people will conduct themselves amorally…! Look at Congress and the Administration; you know there are rules against some of that behavior, and you know there are strong moral imperatives against almost all of it, but do you see them following any of that…?
You have to TEACH morals, and that means you have to GET CONTROL of the chaos that interrupts the ability to teach such things…like unemployment, lack of opportunity, wage deflation or stagflation that puts two parents having to work, etc…
Give the GOP a break on dictating lifestyles…. the DEM's do it bigtime too. It's a Federal overreach problem where they think, regardless of party, that they can reach into our little lives and regulate everything or protect us from everything. Crap!
The Dem's have this gene hardwired into their positions. The GOP have it here and there. Kyle is one of them. Too is McCain and the Bush family and on and on. They are good people that have a different view of the role of the federal government than a growing majority of us do and we're all getting a bit wee-weed up and fed up with overreach and control from the political class…
The GOP is the best positioned for a revolt, but it's not a lock. There are too many that see government as the answer if only we tweak this or that. We must support and find candidates that mirror Reagan's contempt for the federal government and work for it's diminishment in our lives.. from regulatory reform to tort reform to paring back the federal executive-regulatory monsters that are unaccountable and autonomous.
This is push-back time. I think most conservatives agree and a growing number of others, that it's really time to reexamine the role of the federal government and it's smothering our rights and risks as citizens.
That is a pretty jaded philosophy from my perspective, Rich. Hear me out on this one, because we've gotten off topic and this isn't about poker any more.
*Also, bear in mind that not all of this is directed at you and your comment here, rather it is an aggregate response to all who have commented in this thread.
The phrase "You can't legislate morality" has been dragged out of the closet on me and I feel I need to set the record straight.
The plain fact of the matter is that you can, in fact, legislate morality; and the government does so every day with what could be considered a large degree of success. Our laws against murder are a legislation of morality, as are our drug laws and pretty much every Right in the Constitution.
Our government (like it or not, agree with it or not) enforces laws, and laws (just laws) are based on moral principle. Our U.S. Constitution is based upon moral principles. It would not be worth the paper it was written on otherwise.
You might have more accurately phrased your statement as "THIS government (meaning this administration and this Congress) are incapable of delivering morality". I would be forced to agree with that sentiment.
I have no problem with poker, or gambling for that matter. I once won $85.00 in a single hand of nickle/ dime poker, a fact of which I am immensely proud.
You must admit that poker has become synonymous with gambling, and gambling IS mentioned in the Bible. This is where some folks get their panties in a knot. I, myself, do not.
The SCOTUS decision in question is a victory for freedom and should be celebrated.
Now, back to your statement that, "The idea that big government can make us moral drives big government types on both the left and the right, and it is an idea that fails every time it's tried."
Legislating moral behavior is completely different from "making us moral". Only the Grace of God can make us moral. That doesn't mean our government should condone murder. Are there still murderers? Yes. The question is "How many more would we have if that behavior were legal"? A lot, I can tell you. There are several people I would shoot in an instant if it were legal.
The answer to a powerful minority imposing their will on the majority is to vote them out of office, a phenomenon which I look forward to witnessing this fall.
To say that you can't legislate morality is inaccurate and incorrect. You might want to re-phrase your thought as "You can't force an individual to behave in a moral way". My guess is that was the idea behind the statement, but words have meaning and I felt the record needed to be set straight on this point.
Keep writing those good articles, Rich, and please forgive my rambling!
"YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE MORALITY…!"
Yes, you can. We do it every day. See my reply to Rich (http://biggovernment.com/2010/01/22/senator-jon-k... for an explanation of my reply.
Thanks for checking out my article and taking the time to comment on it. I thumbed it up, of course.
Yes, I could have written about the Dems, but they profess a belief in big government. Writing about that would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
The sky is blue, grass is green, and Dems are looking for bigger government.
"This is push-back time. I think most conservatives agree and a growing number of others, that it's really time to reexamine the role of the federal government and it's smothering our rights and risks as citizens."
Quoted for truth.
I'M PROUD OF YOUR "HANDLE" BUT WATCH!!! PROGRESSIVES ARE DEADLY!
Well put! Very well, indeed. The necessary deconstruction process will be a long and arduous task. We must know our common enemy and choose our battles wisely. But if a Tea Party candidate is in line with true Conservatism and has a solid chance of beating an (R) like Kyl …………
Could you have put less effort in to that reply?
"Keep writing those good articles, Rich, and please forgive my rambling! "
Hehe. I was checking some formatting and editing it, but SOMEONE replied and killed the edit.
I have a good reply. One moment……..
sorry about that! Didn't realize that was your intent. I went back to delete my comments and unlock it for you only to find you had locked me up as well. HA ha! There's one other comment coming by email, but once it posts, I'd be happy to go back up the list and take all this off.
I think government can and should criminalize actions that are wrong, of course. Murder and theft are two laws like this. However, these are not unlawful because they are wrong (i.e., they are not unlawful in an effort to keep people from immorality). Rather, they are unlawful because people who commit these actions violate the rights of others. Likewise, I'm pro-life, but the legal basis for my belief is not on helping others not to sin. Rather, it's on the basis of protecting unborn children from aggression of others. Even many libertarians believe this, including several Libertarian Party presidential nominees (Bob Barr/Wayne Allyn Root from this year, Ron Paul from 1988, etc.).
However, when it comes to laws passed specifically to encourage people to be better people, government tend to fail miserably. There are several reasons for this. One is that one person's morality is another person's liberty. We see this with poker [yep, we're still talking about poker
], but we see it with many other issues. After all, many do think helping the poor is a moral act, so why not forcibly take your money via taxation and give it to the poor? Usury is condemned in the Bible, so why not closely regulate or even nationalize banks and credit cards? At the end of the day, once everyone on Capitol Hill has used government to enforce their own versions of morality, we'd likely have no freedom remaining.
Finally, gambling really isn't mentioned in the Bible. Casting of lots (dice) is, but not as a gambling activity. Focus on the Family has a paper that purports to prove that gambling is a sin, but it's the most tortured thing I ever read (it's like Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon).
Congrats on your big poker win!
Not a problem. I thought I'd be done before the edit came through. It's all good, as I simply posted my reply separately.
This is a very well reasoned presentation of your position. I guess that's why they pay you the big bucks! I think we are on the same page.
I think I'll check to the last paragraph. It's just not worth going all in on that one!
Gladly. They are opposite sides of the same coin. Hope that clears it up. lol!
Thank you! You're most kind.
Aren't democratic republics wonderful? The system DID work, if only barely. I shudder to think where I'd be without the NRA.
Will do.
In a perfect world, they would regulate and tax online poker. But just tax the businesses, and not the players. While we are on the subject, it would be great if poker can fall under the same tax rates as long term investments do if a person plays poker for a living. After all, the money in a pro-poker-player's account is there as a way to make money over the long run.
It is not the government's business if anyone wants to gamble or not. But, I guess it's better to use their time on this "problem" than working to pass a carbon tax and many other nitwit schemes.
It's OUR GUY who's spending time on this INSTEAD of fighting the "carbon tax and many other nitwit schemes."
Delighted to see this here. More conservatives need to know about this issue. I think if they did, most (sans the hardline social cons) would be on the side of liberty.
Even if you don't care, or even if you are "morally opposed" to it — it doesn't matter. Just like anti-smoking or anti-soda or anti-whatever the nanny statists come up with next — it's important to recognize the big picture and see it as BIG GOVERNMENT seizing more control of our lives. If you want to be left alone on things you like, then you have to accept leaving other people alone doing things you may not agree with, too.
And if conservatives, let alone the GOP, were actually consistent on issues like this — we'd never lose another election.
Thank you for keeping on top of this travesty. After Frist, Kyl, and Leach snuck this bill through I knew the GOP deserved to get whacked. Just as with the healthcare debacle, the horse racing interests were able to carve out their own exemption. Do not give any credit to McConnell, the KY delegation, and I bet some reps from the horse raising districts of Western VA, they are carrying water for the horse racing lobby. King and Paul signed the letter out of a true love of freedom. I never thought I would say this but Barney Frank is a friend on this issue. Really disappointed Kyl is "doubling down" on this issue.
And this is the same Senator whose campaign was sponsored by Churchill Downs, and who, yes, paved the way for legal horserace betting and increased lottery sales. Hmmm.
I love my country. I hate my government. Name the largest concentration of tax cheats, deadbeats, purveyors of bounced checks and employers of illegal aliens. That's right, the U.S. Congress. Now comes Senator Jon Kyl (by the way, its Jon, not John, and Kyl not Kyle, like to go into it but that's another story) wanting, I guess, to protect us from ourselves. We are too stupid, too uneducated and too simple to be allowed to make choices about where to spend our money. So he and the rest of the Big Government crowd say, "give all of your money to the government and we'll give you back what we think you need to survive." That used to be called Communism but now it's called the U.S. Senate. What happened to the Republican party of "the government that governs best, governs least?" There is now, oficially, no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. A pox on both their houses.
[...] the confidence that a year of solid wins on Capitol Hill has earned them, the PPA went to CPAC ready to take on the dwindling minority who would ban poker [...]
So – I read it all. What's the PLAN. Let's make on line poker in the U.S. happen already.
http://www.gopapoker.com – @Xfilespoker on twitter.
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