Friday Free-for-All: Libya Edition
by PubliusContrary to what you’ve heard, we do have troops on the ground in our unconstitutional action in Libya.
Contrary to what you’ve heard, we do have troops on the ground in our unconstitutional action in Libya.
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Posted Mar 25th 2011 at 12:13 am in Open Threads | 24624860 Commentshttp%3A%2F%2Fbiggovernment.com%2Fpublius%2F2011%2F03%2F25%2Ffriday-free-for-all-libya-edition%2FFriday+Free-for-All%3A+Libya+Edition2011-03-25+08%3A13%3A24Publiushttp%3A%2F%2Fbiggovernment.com%2F%3Fp%3D246248
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60 Comments
"… we do have troops on the ground…''
Of course we do, how do you think our pilots know where to direct all those bombs we're dropping?
Remember, we have to protect the civilians… No way to do that without eyes on the ground…
.
Ditto on that special forces are in "painting" targets
The public does NOT have a 'right to know', when it comes to combat! I was in total disagreement when Bush let Iraq KNOW, WHEN, and WHERE we were coming! WHY would you even want to tell the enemy what you are going to do, before you do it??? Of course we had troops on the ground…but, I'm thinking it was NOT Obama's idea to keep it secret!
God Bless our troops!!
I thought this started as a no fly zone. It is a very strange no fly zone when it involves bombing tanks.
Yes, it goes against some of the main philosophies outlined in Sun Tzu's Art of War.
BHO allowing the UN to take the lead on this as its all part of the plan of course, for America to take a step back not be a deciding factor in world events.
Beck once again made one heck of a good argument thursday that supports this move. Of course ppl will attack him claiming conspiracy, oddly though the things he has presented are all facts so how what he is presenting is conspiracy is beyond me. It will not be a surprise when Israel is officially thrown under the bus and UN decides to do something about Gaza.
Thats all Libya is about, opening the door on this new policy the UN is working off of. No? Okay when will they be going into Bahrain, Tunisia, Yemen, Syria etc etc. I have seen plenty of vids from these countries of what is being done to unarmed protesters. Wheres the humanitarian action for these countries? What makes Libya so special vs the others? Pay attention America you are witnessing the beginning of a real war, its just a matter of time.
You Are The Resistance… http://www.savingtherepublic.com
"The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap." Ayn Rand
I had dinner in DC Wed. evening and that is EXACTLY what we talked about.
The MSM doing a prime time story on "No Fly Zone" and blabbing away, as the video showed us bombing tanks…
I was SHOCKED to learn Lybia had FLYING Tanks!
I think those pilotless drones are the best thing since sliced bread.
I figured out what the chinese are doing with all of our money………………….buying more houses like this.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/mar/24/m...
Dear Mr. Obama,
please return your peace prize. You don't deserve it.
Sincerly,
NOBEL!
Nice pic of the V-22 Osprey, it is a bad assed machine, typically full of bad-assed Marines (or special operators).
I want it CLEAR I find no fault for the US assets on the ground in this uncosntitutional effort. I totally support them and want them to be effective and survive and win. But I hold their leadership (the ones NOT wearing uniforms) in contempt, especially CINC, and SecDef….
'Nuff said
Remember everyone. This isn't a war. It's a 'kinetic military action' during a 'humanitarian' mission.
What a farce! This fool has us choosing sides in a Libyan civil war.
Constitutional? Is that supposed to be important?
The community-organizer-in-chief has turned Libya into Somalia. The man's irresponsibility and incompetence have grave consequences all around the world. An empty suit in the white house, diminishing the USA and making the world a more dangerous place. What a nightmare we are living.
http://www.redstate.com/repair_man_jack/2011/03/2...
“Well, it really isn’t war,” Brzezinski said. “It’s something between war and military intervention, to stop something that is going on, but without really trying to conquer the country. But I have to tell you frankly . . . I cannot think of another instance in recent times in which I myself was so uncertain in thinking about the problem, about how we should act. Because there are so many downsides and so many uncertainties.
Really?
Let's ask Websters:
Definition of WAR
1
a (1) : a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2) : a period of such armed conflict (3) : state of war b : the art or science of warfare c (1) obsolete : weapons and equipment for war (2) archaic : soldiers armed and equipped for war
2
a : a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b : a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end <a class war> <a war against disease> c : variance, odds 3
— war·less \-ləs\ adjective
You tell me.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
~George Orwell
From the Halls of Montezuma
To the shores of . . . . .
If indeed their are troops on the ground,……..
than we, as Americans are compelled to,…..
support this endeavor,……..
from top to bottom.
Keeping it a secret is the right thing to do,…….
if it will minimize harms way.
Let's go Air Force…Combat Control Teams Specialists. They jump so that others may die more accurately.
They're not flying…they're blowing apart, with style….
On a side note, could I just comment on the incompetency of the Army/Air Force/Navy/Marines/Coasties/Civil Air Patrol/Boy Scouts 1134 or anyone else who thinks the Osprey should be included in their inventory?
It has one small problem.
Engine failure, either one, especially in VTOL mode, is ALMOST ALWAYS FATAL. For everyone.
Youda thunk they'd have noticed that when they were, you know, at the cocktail napkin stage, maybe.
Used to be. Wonder what happened?
The MSM never told me.
It has become quite obvious over the centuries that our military personnel are commanded not by uniformed officers but rather, inept empty silk suits, who are the TRUE KILLERS of our treasures. If our brave men and women were allowed to fight a war the way wars should be fought, there would be less American blood shed on the battlefield and less time spent on the soil of the enemy. Politics is what kills our troops…
Not enemy combatants….
God bless our troops and their families!!!!
Well stated!
Our troops are being used to advance the Islamist agenda. This is becoming more clear each passing day. Egypt went to the Muslim brotherhood (the Ideological birthplace of the political Islamism that is spreading). Yemen, Libya, and Tunisia are going "democratic", which means mob rule and the mob wants Islamism. Islamism is just has dangerous, and in many ways similar to Communism, Socialism, Fascism etc. Why are we allowing this Administration to shift our war on Islamism to one of being allies with the ISlamist that want to kill our way of life??
So, Barack is WTF (Winning The Future) by using KMA (Kinetic Military Action). Do these dweebs even think before they come up with these things?
Of course we have troops on the ground. Hopefully we have some intel operators as well. They can call this whatever they want to appease the media and the loony left, but I can guarantee that if they asked any of the brave souls doing the fighting they'll tell you it's a freaking war. God bless and protect our military people and God save the USA.
That is not "Troop Troops", you know, No Troops means like on the WWII style, there are not battalions after battalions storming the beach kind of thing.
We have no troops on the ground in Libya.
Any people we may have there would be "Kinetic Action Agents Authorized to Prevent 'Man-Caused Disasters.'"
Barry does have the approval of the UN, who needs the Constitution?
In case your wondering what your former President is doing, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1d4opG2s0o
a) Since when does the truth matter to the turd POTUS?
b) Where is our republican Congress?
They better be out this Sunday talking this up in the media!!!!!
What is happening is that the White House has helped orchestrate through google executives and social media the departure of Mubarak . Now they are sidestepping congress and the constitution to go to the UN and the Arab league for approval. While Americans scratch their heads on Libya what they don't realize is Obama just went GLOBAL GOVERNMENT on us. Using the International Coalition for the Responsibility to Protect as reason for his cause of action in Libya. <
This is one big set up …Our involvement is Libya is pretext to create a staged ..exhibit A…for the Arab world to set in motion their plan to justify with Global Government a plan to attack Israel. A plan where America sits on the sidelines . http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/03/24/from-tv-obama...
Since Mubarak was forced out the treaty between Israel and Egypt is now toast with the Muslim brotherhood filling the leadership vacuum . Arms are now moving in to Gaza through Egypt . http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?ID=2... Rockets are once again being shot at Israel in a provocative attempt to force Israel to retaliate with an overwhelming force . http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article... One that is so powerful that the Muslim world calls it GENOCIDE of the Palestinian people. The Muslim world will use the pretext of the US involvement in Libya to attack Israel. And America will sit it out
The muslims are making FOOLS out of us again.
Those laser guided munitions don't guide themselves.
Anyone who thinks otherwise, never played with things that go "boom".
The muslims are making FOOLS of us AGAIN.
Come on Chop, don't let the truth get in the way of a perfectly good crises to take advantage of. That "truth" stuff (read my lips) only applies to republicans ;-]
This Libyan thingy is a test run…the WH getting a feel for how this CIC power actually works. The real war is gonna be an election year surprise.
If Obama goes after the Ayatollahs in say, the summer of 2012, he knows the GOP could not help but support him. He also knows the majority of Americans would likewise see this as just war against a true enemy who is plainly after a nuke that it will clearly use at the first opportunity.
It would of course be pure cynicism for The One to do this given his obvious anti-Israel predilection. But the Arab world hates the Persians too and he would get support from that audience as well.
The road to Nov 2012 will be filled with surprises. With MSM carpet bombing US with pro-Obama news as Team Obama and their $ ONE BILLION $ ready to reelect his OneNess combining forces, those of us who want regime change in Washington will need a mighty effort to make it so.
That seems to be the problem….They just talk….and the media controls the message…..
Sounds like the A-Team movie…
"No, he's trying to fly a tank."
you get the fair day goose!!!
Kinetic Military Action……ha!!!
I can see it now….someone will use this BS twist of words for their own ass-covering someday……"honey, it wasn't an extramarital affair…..it was simply a kinetic sexual action….you know, like when Whoopie said it wasn't rape-rape"….
And everyone is quiet on the actions of the GOP. Why aren't they standing up and saying this violates the war powers act. The Constitution imagined the budget as a way to control the Presidency. Where is this budgeted anywhere?
Obama is seeing how far he can push the envelope and the most the GOP can do is write a letter. Where are our elected Representatives who can talk about running for President but are quiet on this issue?
I am not voting for someone just because they don't have a "D" after their name. I expect them to do something.
Military action in Libya is not unconstitutional. Unwise maybe, but not unconstitutional.
Why does the Executive carry with him (well a subordinate actually carries it for him but it is never very far from him) the nuclear football and the biscuit? The answer to that is simple, it is on his word that the codes be opened and executed. It is on the shoulders of the Commander in Chief to carry the burden. The fact of the matter is that directing the military in the moment is the President's responsibility and rightly so. To check this power, this authority, the Congress controls the money. If after a short time period the Congress decides that the President has acted improperly, it has the authority to over ride the President, just it can regarding lawmaking. Is vetoing a bill unconstitutional? Nope! It is a constitutional exercise of due assigned authority. Action, like Libya, is no different.
It is nonsense to say that ONLY the Congress holds the authority to exercise the military power of this nation. That flies in the face of the checks and balances aspect of our system itself. It would be a centralization of power that our Founders stood against and toiled so hard to prevent!
Think it through folks, do not take the progressive liberal bent of this argument. Congress does NOT, nor should it have, SOLE authority over military action. The Founders and Framers put in place a dual role and enumerated powers specifically to avoid any SOLE authority of this nature.
If Congress disagrees with what the Commander in Chief has done, if they find the use of due authority to have been abused, then it is their responsibility to refuse to fund operation after 60 days. If they find exercise of the power to have been criminal, then impeach and convict Obama to remove him from office so it cannot happen again. Voters also have that option come election time.
But the deployment of our military by the Commander in Chief is NOT unconstitutional in and of itself. President;s have this due authority and it is one very salient reason why our Founder and Framers sought to and did PROTECT that lone position with very specific and unique requirements that no other government position requires. Most notable among these is the NATURAL BORN CITIZEN provision. See, not just any old Citizen qualifies, it takes a special kind of Citizen to qualify, only stand alone allegiance, created by both parents being Citizens, can qualify a person for this position.
Make no mistake, I despise the usurper in office now, but I will not compromise the tenets of the Constitution in order to make a case against him the way his supporters did to put the usurper in office to begin with. Neither should the rest of the Patriots that write for or frequent these boards.
I have an interesting question which hasn't been asked during this debate. When Obama's handpicked general gave a report in what seemed just weeks that outlined in detailed what needed to be done in Afghanistan which needed sixty thousand troops Obama spent months and months going over the report before approving 30,000.
Where was that careful thought for Libya? Where were the multiple meetings? Why wasn't it announced in a speech at West Point. At least with Afghanistan we were there already and needed the President to decide the strategy. Here it seems like we're listening to England and who would think that France known for quitters will be a better leader.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
We have a right to know afterward, but not prior.
Here is the real story. As most everyone knows. To pull of that particular type of military mission, you need "boots on the ground". There is NOTHING confidential about that info. Libyan military officers are WELL aware of the requirements.
Here's the thing, Obumbler was too stupid to know this and THAT is why he said that we had no boots on the ground. That idiot isn't even qualified to run a newspaper delivery route.
Let the Middle East Implode for now. They're doing us a favor. Let them topple all their Dictators, especially Iran. When the new leaders are being formed we need to be sure that the barbaric extreme Islamists do not take power, with their 7th Century barbarian minds and jihad against all non Islamists.
The lives of our military, and our tax dollars need to be withheld. The Middle East, Islam and terrorism are our biggest enemy and that is still our focus.
Iran is ready to strike US with nuclear weapons. They are this-close to positioning them off the coast of the U.S. and in South America, our other enemy, and we have a marxist muslim traitor at the helm. Therefore it is up to Congress to exert it's power according to the will of, We The People.
I am sure that's just the tip of the iceberg chopper, we have let anybody run around in our country for years.
Boots on the ground, boots on the ground, B. Hussein's been lying like a clown. The brothers think yo black, but yo really sorta brown, but it really don't matter cause you got boots on the ground. The brothers got behind ya and they voted you in, but they wasn't hip to your Chicago spin. Yo buddy Rev. Wright yeh hes yo guy, he filled yo head with crap and taught you how to lie. Now you do it really good and you can't tell it true and we all should be knowin that lying's really you. Ronny Reagan showed you how to do it but you waited too long and now you really blew it. Libya ain't for our boys (and girls) to die although I know they would be willin, cause the USA is the place you should by
DRILLIN.
A pig with lipstick is still a pig. They will spin this into butter, it's still a war.
History repeats itself. . . . . Tripoli. How many times now, is this the third or fourth?
Two thumbs up pard.
So, when are the reactionary leftists going to start protesting Obama's illegal war for oil?
When the police or FBI want to wiretap someone, they're supposed to go before a judge, present their case, and obtain a warrant.
As war is such a serious matter, I believe a similar routine should be followed. The president should present his case to the Congress, and if Congress agrees that a war is necessary, a formal Declaration of War will be issued. The only exception to this rule should be if an attack is imminent and action is needed immediately.
The problem in any scenario like the one in Libya, where the president simply decides on his own to go to war, is that Congress — especially once troops are on the ground — will almost never effectively "defund" a war because they don't want to be seen as endangering the troops. That means the war needlessly drags on and on, especially when restrictive rules of engagement are placed upon those doing the fighting (think Afghanistan).
Don't think its the muslims making fools of us, we and especially France has managed to make us the biggest fools on the block.
We go in to a conflict without really understanding the end goal, no one wants to lead the war, we want to arm the rebels but don't know who they are, say we want a no fly zone but justify bombing gadaffis army and followers even though these are also Libyans……. I could go on
The west wonders why Iran is arming itself to the teeth, this war proves if you have little hardwareyou are easy pray from our two faced western Governments.. I think after this conflict you'll see many more african, south american and middle easten countries investing in new tech to stop this happening to them.
Just a thought, who's gonna make money from arms sales….. US, Uk, France.
Although I don't like Iran, I wonder who has caused more wars – the US or Iran.
Iran's build up of weapons and power in the region is directly linked to the wests involvement in countries surrounding them and through the need of self preservation. America only managed to develope all this super technology through the need of self preservation during the cold war. By isolating them, we have managed to let them think for themselves, developing their own weapon systems – hence the wests fear of them.
That is a funny way to express that.
So, if "war" has become 'Kinetic Military Action", does that mean that our "Warriors" have become
'Kinetic Military Action Figures'?
Where's the outrage?
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