Saturday Open Thread: DREAM Edition
by PubliusThe Senate is likely to vote today on the DREAM Act, which would provide a ‘path to citizenship’ to individuals who entered the country illegally as children.
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161 Comments
Well if it passes, consider it one of the many nails in the coffin of the "American Dream".
This is no 'Dream'… it's more of your (our) worst nightmare!!! This abomination flies in the face of every LEGAL immigrant that has ever waited the time period and studied the Constitution, and learned English and passed every other test required to become an American citizen!
This so called dream act of Reid's, is about nothing but VOTES for the democratic party! The majority of these people who would accept being bumped up to the front of the line, only want to be here because of the way our government treats immigrants…way better than LEGAL citizens! The democrats have lost almost all respect of the American people because of the socialists, marxist, and communist leanings of the present administration!
This cannot be allowed to go through!
just keep "dreamin"…………….you damn foooools………………………….
Why are so many in Washington so intent on watering down American citizenship? This act has been bounced around for nine years and now it is being reintroduced again during a lame duck session–unbelievable. A citizen is a citizen and there shouldn't be special circumstances for some to gain citizenship without going through the normal procedures. I applaud anyone who serves in our armed forces, but they should also respect the meaning of being a citizen enough to go through the standard procedures.
There's only one way to save the Constitutional Republic of the USA at this point and I really don't think Americans have the balls to do it.
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." – Declaration of Independence
I'm sorry to say, I'm thinking along the same lines. It might be too late.
I know, terribly pessimistic. Hopefully I'm totally wrong!
And as you invade my country……………………….please try to not drag small children behind you.
To HonestAmerican, great post. I wish I had the optimism to believe that America will once again see Socialism in any of it's variations as the danger that it is, but I guess I'm a melancholic pessimist at my core. As a Border Patrol Agent, I hate that it is taking so much energy to get people thinking clearly about this issue. The sad stories of those crossing are somehow seen as unique to the US/Mexico border. The truth is is that these sad stories are the stories of immigration across the world, as seen in the recent tragedy in Australia (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gXhvhVoBQm6wMtpGYeX7hFnYOlMQ?docId=ba0e958f542e40808eaaba29eeaabfe9)
and as seen in general in Greece http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,203...
Immigration is always this way and always will be, if immigration laws are to be followed at all. In the free world, the imm. laws are seen as onerous and oppressive. But this can only be true in societies that attempt to follow laws and respect the rights of people in general, even those entering a coutry illegally. In the not-so-free world, (China, Pakistan, M-E-X-I-C-O) breaking the immigration laws are handled quite a bit differently.
2nd part
I just don't understand what to do about our leaders who are sworn to uphold our Constituition, but seem hell-bent on undermining it. Your kids are here illegally, so you get to stay while they are in college? Hmmmm…..how fast can I print a college transcript? Think they'll be ever so careful to verify that they really are in a legitimate college? Yeah, right, and I have a clunker I'd like to trade for cash please … http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/07/01/c...
It's hard enough for the government to do the things it is supposed to do. When it gets into areas that it should absolutely not be into, things can get really ugly. When it does the opposite of what it is supposed to do, nothing but disaster can result (immigration, war on poverty, etc., ad infinitum)
Dream Act???== Oh yeah! Nightmares count! No to this piece crap legislation! What the H3LL is going on here? We need to elect smarter people I guess. Are they too stupid to write simple easy to understand legislation? Seems most stuff coming out of the current congress is around 2000 pages, oh! wait! they wouldn't hide stuff in there?! Would they ?????????????????????????????
Get legal or get out. Follow the rules or pay the price.
If this passes, we'll be one step closer to a "global citizenship".
Which is what they want.
IMHO
I have a dream….how about we follow the rule of law for awhile.
I'm not clear on what provisions are in there for military service, but I will say this, it is the one area in which I would agree to a fast track for citizenship. The ones that I have known that have acquired citizenship through military service really get it. They understand and VALUE this honor, and are willing to sacrifice for principles and freedom. As for the rest of them??– get in line.
This is partly why I vehemently oppose the DREAM Act or any other form of amnesty for illegal aliens and their offspring: Back during WWII, my father's father tried to cross into this country illegally and was caught. However, instead of being sent back to Mexico right away, he was given a life-altering choice: Fight the Nazi scourge in Europe and earn your citizenship papers or face immediate deportation. He chose the first choice, joined the Army and became a paratrooper of the prestigious 82nd Airborne (second only to the legendary 101st). One of the battles he participated in was none other than the now infamous Battle of the Bulge. I don't know much else of his exploits during the brief time he was in the service, but I'm sure his conduct was nothing less than honorable, because he did earn the privilege to be called a citizen of these United States of America (I'm living proof of this). Sadly, he passed away many years ago, and the only real memories I have of him are as a grouchy old man, but after hearing his story, I now have nothing but deep respect and admiration for what he did. While it can't be overlooked that he did knowingly break the law to get in here at first, in my opinion, he ultimately redeemed himself in the end by making the judicious decision to serve and give something back to this country.
Which leads to my question: Why should people who've come through the backdoor of this country both without permission and also without giving anything meaningful in return even be given a free pass, when my father's father was forced to sleep in some cold, dirty foxhole with a corpse in it? It's nothing more than a blatant insult to his sacrifice that was made for the righteous cause of freedom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hdx9JjzDfo
That sums up the Dream Act.
So lawbreakers in this country are not allowed to rebuild their lives at all???
So white collar criminals like Martha Stewart are allowed to stay in the country and rebuild their lives after clearly committing serious crimes? These LINDSEY LOHAN'S of America are clearly more entitled to live in this country than the promising college educated youth (note my sarcasm)
I think it's safe to say that a majority of these kids grew up only knowing this country and they're as American as the rest of us. They just need the opportunity.
Let's go DREAM ACT!!!
We should never reward illegal activity like this.
Well.
If those kids are as American as the rest of US, to quote a line from Roots "You in Amerika now Toby, you speak English." Granted, it might be a bit dated, but to suit your needs, feel free to insert Pedro or Juanita in there.
Why not?
If they were black farmers, they'd each get a check for 50 grand.
That sign on the top of the thread made me do a triple take, and set my cartoon mind in motion.
Where I come from, we see signs like that, that have captions of deer, or buffalo, or elk, or cows, or sometimes wild horses. But never people. I wonder, do motorists get points for hitting them, or a break in their Geico Insurance for not hitting them? The Geco and Warren Buffet certainly need to expand into that market. It appears there could be as many as 20 million of 'em ready to fork over some peso's.
yea they really love America so much they wave mexican flags at rallies…NO TO THE NIGHTMARE ACT. Yes to the deportation of illegal aliens and their illegal alien children!
There should be just one provision and that's the entire bill ought to require every illegal to serve ten years if they wish to remain here and become legal. Call it an expungement of a crime.
federalist 28 p6
It's not about rewarding. It's about doing what is right.
Are we rewarding criminal citizens of this country by giving some of them another chance to live their lives in American society?
A sex offender living across the street from you with a note about Megan's Law on his door is more American and a more decent neighbor than the immigrant who is seen going off to work in the mornings so he can seek his American Dream?
I just hope if it does pass the ones that vote for it have their names out there until their next election and their opponents use the fact that they voted for the Dream (Nightmare) Act to defeat them.
A sex offender living across the street from you with a note about Megan's Law on his door is more American and a more decent neighbor than the immigrant who is seen going off to work in the mornings so he can seek his American Dream?
Great point but still falling short of the true purpose of naturalization. I'll point out that a great number of WWII citizenships were granted to communists who fled the Nazi's and fought against Hitler. They remained here having "earned a right to citizenship"??? and are the foundation upon which is built the progressive socialism destroying liberty the world over. Now, do you understand why the threshold for citizenship can not be a bargain?
Any global government that tries to come here and assert it's authority will be met with the barrel of a rifle.
No moron they are both scumbags…and as we well know there are plenty of illegal aliens who commit sex crimes….lame analogy…
That isn't the entirety of the bill. Maybe it is too complicated for you to understand but if you looked for what you just claimed it was you wouldn't find it. Let's be clear, citizenship is not for sale, predicated on the need for something we created, a right or any other thing. It is reserved for those who have shown, sworn and are likely to uphold and defend the constitution. So far even the president has proven why a foreigner should be carefully vetted for entry let alone citizenship, union advocacy or political office. Ahhh but you will just slurp up some more social justice on your way to the funeral of the greatest idea ever, people controlling their government by constitutional law.
That global government is already here. It's headquartered in DC.
I'm pretty sure name calling works best in the court of law
You prefer to live next door to that than a decent immigrant who wants to work BECAUSE that's American rule right? The rule you live by! )
If that hardworking immigrant is an equivalent scumbag to you then you are some kind of racist and delusional about the laws that this country SO ADHERES to
Well that's the beauty of the bill. It will mandate drivers licenses be issued and then insurance for their right to drive and on and on until the original intent of the constitution is proved to have failed by this lot of communists/ socialists/ Marxists et al who've waged war upon us , We the People of these sovereign states united to preserve our culture, beliefs and form of governance by law.
1. I didn't imply referring to any DETAILS of the bill, read again!
2. It's about doing what is right for people who grew up here. If a child grows up in the care of foster parents all their life and not know it until they were older, they shouldn't lose that communication with their foster parents. Some of these kids knew only this country.
3. The President is IN SUPPORT of the act and has shown his support yesterday!
Martha Stewart has done more good than bad, Linsey Lohan is a lost child, both are American Citizens and their crimes have not cost any lives only damage to their own, now even in this small community we have about a dozen ILLEGAL WETBACKS, one was a kid that beat an other kid to death (Non Wetback) with a base ball bat for his baseball cap, another was a drug dealer that was shot in the head in his driveway by another drug dealer, you guessed it both Wetbacks, the rest are frequently picked up by the police for break ins and crimes to do with taking stuff that don't belong to them. These people have not evolved enough to be mixed in with evolved citizens, they still have a couple thousand years of evolution before they are allow to mix with evolved spieces. They should all be rounded up and sent back to their third world country of origin
REPLY 2. Illegals who commit serious crimes such as that are subject more seriously to deportation. The Feds can and will go after them so I'm pretty sure they won't be living across that picket fence!
Yes but if an illegal immigrant has done any of their acts they would DEFINITELY be subject to deportation! BUT these people live decent lives! They go to school! Some are your neighbors! Some are HONOR STUDENTS / VALEDICTORIANS. They should be given the same chance!
Sex offenders?
Are you registered?
Remember how the press was saying it was dead this year. Just more backroom politicking to line up votes. Now will some Republican put hold on the bill to force into the next session? I doubt it. They want the illegal immigrant vote too.
Does planting weeds get one roses instead? A rose by any other name is still amnesty. Stop and smell the flowers along the primrose path.
You forgot the "Sanctuary Cities" where even if they commit a crime they are not turned over to Federal Authorities.
The key word in this statement was "illegal immigrant". Crawling under a fence in the middle of the night does not give you rights. You are an American of the worst kind. You will sell out the real Americans at any cost to support or push you're agenda. I'd lay odds you've never served anyone except you're self. Sooner or later we will get are country straighted out. When we do you may want to move back to the basement where its safe.
*You're logic suggests that if I rob a bank the next day for punishment I should get the keys to said bank.
Got 54 more bad guys yesterday………………………………Keep droning.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12/17/pakistani...
Here comes a another midnight screw job. Do these morons in DC think that if they do it on a Saturday night that no one will notice?
*You're logic suggests that if I rob a bank the next day for punishment I should get the keys to said bank.
It's YOUR, truly a brilliant American debater you are!
And if you think my logic implies that then you are twisting what I say into a heinous exaggeration because a said HONOR STUDENT equals your bank robber. Your American bank robber, through the judicial court system is at most behind bars a few years, then back into society!
The immigrant has far more value if they have a cleaner record. Crimes committed like the bank robber surely would get them deported but somehow those that go to school and work hard for a future CANNOT AFFORD TO COMMIT CRIMES.
If I had my way the sex offender would have been fed through a wood chipper and the illegal branded on their face with a mark before getting them sent back
Gives a whole new meaning to the term "Saturday Night Special", eh?
you talk of a very very small % the majority are non english speaking, mexican flag waving rabid RAZA members who think that America is theirs
These invaders are using their own children as 'human shields'. They're no better than Middle Eastern terrorists.
they should be sent back to make use of their education in mexico
YOU FORGOT that this a Federal Issue and the overall amount of DECENT HONORABLE STUDENTS who could truly benefit!
Ten years? How? Where?
any republican that votes for this ….. is in my opinion little better than a pedophile pos
The fact that our Latin American friends come from a completely different culture that happens to
be somewhat accepting of socialism/fascism in their homeland and therefor have no real problem
enjoying its more prolific benefits here in the USA, is totally lost on the LEFT, and approximately
half of the RIGHT.
Illegal immigrants core beliefs will not and do not change when they cross our borders to come here
for a low-paying job, you know… the jobs Americans WON"T do. What a crock!!!
I have experience with these folks, not necessarily illegals, but some only one generation removed,
and I can tell you to a one they love the USA, but not for our freedoms, but because of what the govern-
ment provides them when times are hard. They're basically good, law-abiding citizens, they're just
of a different mindset.
That 'difference' is precisely the reason we MUST limit their numbers vis a vis immigration. If we fail
to do so it is like giving our country away, overnight. True and total ASSIMILATION requires TIME and
possibly generations to accomplish. There is NO such thing as SHOCK assimilation.
They will eventually embrace and appreciate FREEDOM, when they learn to live without entitlements
(free stuff).
GOD BLESS THE USA!!!
.
A a visitor here I really think that very few would notice and not be worried till some wetback dui runs over their son or some illegal columbian takes the virginity of their daughter by force or some illegal MS-13 thug gang starts their drug selling at their childrens school
So many benefits of this country are taken advantage of to some level. But those benefits sometimes do justice to those who really deserve it!
And how exactly do you know the percentages?? Did you do a valid census??
That's awfully naive of you Billy. These politicians will steal elections anyway – using newly found voters and mystery boxes of votes.
Like many of the others, I see the USA as being a dying patient. What comes of it afterward is still unknown. We can only hope that it's offspring does not carry the same cancer that is killing this patient but is one that has the DNA that founded it and that it remains a healthy republic.
When asked by a lady on the street what kind of government was form by the Constitutional Convention, Ben Franklin replied, "A republic, if you can keep it."
If Ben Franklin's ghost were to ask me if we had been able to keep the republic, I would have to respond, "We have lost our republic. We now have a kleptocracy."
You want me to write a law here? How about I just make it a short choice, jail as a felon or serving the nation wherever it needs while at the same time learning about the model of government we have and why it is so important to control government. I said ten because we all know that felons laugh at a two year sting and even ten wouldn't do much in the PC prison system today but the ability of states to revoke rights to vote and bear arms is a plus when you consider the threat both pose are equal.
Deportation? I wouldn't give them the opportunity to break into the country again.
If he was born here – yes! He should be sitting in a prison cell, but if he was born here, he's here legally.
Are you legal, Raul?
I do still love the song…
I believe in the rule of law you obviously do not. You're obviously an educated idiot. Also every time you mention Americans in any light its bad hmmmm. You are either a screaming lefty or a illegal immigrant yourself.
P.S. By attacking my english you just make yourself look bad. Just because you spent 8 years in collage and can type well does not mean you can think. And by the statements you've made I'd have to say that any rational thinking left your front porch long ago.
And you believe in rational laws like Megan's that condone sex offenders living next to you as long as they are labeled as such???
Clearly those laws make more sense with my 4 YEAR COLLEGE education
And P.S. I am beyond college and getting another degree 
Decent? Illegally in the United States and remaining here is decent?
How about I come over to your house, break in, eat your food, shit in your toilet (I'll be sure to not flush it), watch your TV, rape your daughter and you let me stay rent-free in your home?
See how absurd your argument is?
Let's take what you would say is happening.
I come over to your house, break into it, all of the above, but I also do the dishes, vacuum the floor, mow the yard, etc. Now, since I broke in and do all that bad stuff, but I also do chores around the house so that you don't have to do them that everything just fine. No problem, right?
Stupid socialist law-breaking statist!
In a technical sense, doing what's right would be to plant a bullet in them as soon as they cross onto American soil and leave their carcasses to rot where they fell.
Coming to a border near you soon?
!. what kind of bull are you trying to pull? You support a bill loaded with all kinds of crap just to have one tiny part of it that makes you feel good? Now why might we read a bill? Or a book for that matter.
It isn't about people at all. It is about the ability of the voting public to restrain the government by law. Get it? We don't make citizens because it is a nice and good thing for them. Well, you would but then again you seem to not understand how it is every government in history has been destroyed by it's own hand.
Shove your potus where the sun don't shine. The man is a fraud, a traitor and seeks openly to achieve a tyrannical totalitarian government. Of course you think that it is just fine to make everyone follow "wise leadership " just because you've been sold it is the right thing to do. Oh yes, you would claim Mao and Stalin meant well and were forced to kill millions of people to save their countries.
Go ahead, make your case why we should follow such a path. Actually, I don't think you believe you are supporting the destruction of the republic because you don't believe we need the rule of law anymore to be able to lay claim to the name United States. That's a real piece of brain work to destroy the willing unity, the purpose for and of it just to hold the mantle. It will be a fleeting victory.
See how absurd YOUR argument is???
That is truly analogous to EVERY person that benefit from this bill isn't it???
Because EVERY SINGLE person lobbying for this bill somehow does all that and can still convince senators that their plight is worth fighting for. Clearly that's how they ALL are
Your debate is resting on ludacris CONVOLUTED analogies that make for a good poem but are incoherent SORRY TRY AGAIN
Logically throwing the baby out with the bath water! I love it!
I want nothing from this bill. I don't want the bill whatsoever. I gain nothing if it's passed or if it fails to pass.
You still can't comprehend, can you?
A pile of shit is still malodorous whether you cover it up or not.
The LINDSEY LOHAN's and the CORRUPT CEO's are the destruction of the nation, BUT you don't complain enough about those BILLIONS do you?
Look at the DoJ reports of inmate populations. That's valid. Oh, but we can't really know if they are who they are because they have no ID, no SSN and no proof where they were born. …..I've heard of this type someplace before….Barry somebody from Indonesia used to hang out smoke dope, snort coke and spout off all this Marxist crap some guy Davis told him. I wonder if he ever made anything of himself. Whatever, nothing can be validated without valid proof that there is validity to the proof used to validate anything. I see! I am now ready to assume my role. What do you want me to say?
Not to mention, the impact all this has had on the un-employment rate….They will never get it!
lol pumpkin keep telling yourself that and you may one day believe it.
Clearly no laws make sense to you as you don't have the ability to read and comprehend them. Why don't you start with our federal immigration laws.
BINGO !
Best post !
There is a great deal of tension in this country between real citizens and illegals coming into the country, sucking up freebies on the backs of taxpayers and, in the words of South Park, "Their take'n our jobs". I believe this will only create more tension between Americans and this new class of "dream act citizens" and may very well cause a serious escalation in the hatred against immigrants. Beatings? Riots in the streets? Burning the Mexican flag?
Again because EVERY immigrant can be accounted for in that situation right?
That analogy is as convoluted as what you are trying to express
No, I was just curious.
You would have to construct the incarceration facilities if you go that route. On the battlefield, I wouldn't trust most of them (although, those that are doing that now – without a law demanding they do it – I think we could trust) to cover our soldier's asses.
No thanks.
You keep TRYING to attack my reading comprehension, I did so well on that section on MANY STANDARDIZED TESTS!! Get over it!
I hope everyone gets to peruse RS_NYC's post.
One question comes of it all, How can a person be convinced it is morally and ethically right to slit ones own wrists then assure everyone else it is the greatest thing because it is socially just, never mind that it is incredible.
So when you read the federal immigration laws in what section did you find that sneaking into America is the first step to citizenship? You must have read something that i didn't see.
the first thing the parents of these children did when they entered the u.s. was break the law. they shouldn't be here and neither should their children.
now…GET OUT!
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The malfeasnt in Washington just best happy this is not the 1800's.
i think its time for a MASSIVE rally by taxpaying americans in washington. we should surround the entire district. maybe they will get the point. how did these obviously no-common sense, greedy, moronic people ever get the jobs to represent and govern our lives????
Another self loather and I'll bet a revisionist of our constitution. Hows that MS13 thing going for you. Real Americans for sure.
The "Dream Act" is yet another reward to a "special group" in a blatant exchange for votes. And if the GOP thinks that, in a million years, a vote for this canard-of-a-bill will result in even ONE "hispanic" vote, they are sadly mistaken. The GOP needs to stand up for the Constitution, and enforcement of the law: they will be rewarded for that.
You mean that hardworking immigrant that stole someones social security number? It is a felony you know but I would'nt expect a rational answer because there is none.
STEALING SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS IS A FELONY.
Let's hope that his fears are well-founded and that a filibuster will kill it.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/134329-gutierr...
Ah, but if only what you were saying is true. I don't know what part of the country you live in, but you should go spend some time in Denver, CO, where illegal immigrants enjoy what almost amounts to diplomatic immunity, regardless of what what – or how many – crimes they commit.
I see NYC…
I don't know if it signifies that you are originally from there, or live there now….but, either way, I guess it explains your position.
So what you are saying is you have a vested interest such as being illegal immigrant yourself. Sure sounds like it to me.
Stop with the talking points eminating from the demoplantation. IT IS A STATE issue. hugo chavez sounds more like your man.
I'm all for the DREAM act providing all the politicians who vote for it sign agreements (collateralized by recorded liens on their entire net worths) that they will send their children and grandchildren to the grammar and secondary schools that are heavily populated by the beneficiaries of this act.
I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.
You're doing a noble work here, A_pen. But I'm afraid there's no hope for this one. If it truly hails from NYC, I've seen its type most of my life, and their brains are DOA. They're hearts are still beating, and they are breathing, but they'll never be brought back to consciousness. It's very sad.
The fact is that the liberal politicians pushing for this don't give a rat's tail about "the children." They care about their own political power. But the patient will never know that.
We know that the millions of illegals who are naturalized will be able to naturalize tens of millions of their family members. But still, the patient's brain is dead, so it will never perceive that.
We can list a thousand studies and facts and historical records on the effect of unbridled immigration and cultural decline, but still the patient can only breathe and pump blood. They cannot "think."
So I applaud your efforts, and your noble cause, but I think it may be time to pull the plug on this one, and let it go peacefully.
It's because that person is thinking of himself and not you or I. He/she is thinking of themsleves which is overwhelmingly evident down there on that demoplantation. Me me me. Whats in it for me.
Y Thank YOU A_pen. Let me say, you are too gracious in your praise.
You wanna' know something funny? It started out as a reply to YOUR comment above. A little
way in, I says to myself, ocp this is way to long, and frankly too good to tag onto someone elses.
BTW, the reason it IS good IS because I LIVE IT EVERYDAY. This comment is not only my
opinion, it IS MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. That is why it rings true, IT IS TRUE LIFE!!!
TIME TO FACE FACTS!!!
.
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