Labor Unions Don’t Know How Good They Have It
by PubliusFrom Business Insider:
As everyone should know by now, my main concern with unions is specifically with public unions. While I do not care for unions at all, and never have, at least with private unions, someone other than corrupt politicians buying votes is bargaining at the other end of the table.
In the case of public unions, if politicians strike a bad deal, taxpayers foot the bill. In the case of private corporations, if management strikes a bad deal, the company goes bankrupt, shareholders take a hit, or the jobs move elsewhere, as soon as the contract is up.
Except in few cases every now and again, private unions just cannot seem to understand this simple economic fact.
Machinists Union Pickets Cessna Aircraft
The Kansas Wichita Eagle highlights the typical union response, public or private, in Cessna’s initial offer to Machinists includes wage cut:
Machinist union members at Cessna Aircraft picketed near the company’s plant in southwest Wichita on Thursday to protest jobs being sent outside the city.
Members fought strong, gusty afternoon winds and carried signs that read “Keep it Made in Wichita,” “Outsourcing is Treason” and “We built the Air Capital,” as they picketed at K-42 and Hoover roads. Some carried American flags.
Cessna and the Machinists union are in the midst of contract negotiations. The current contract expires Sept. 19. About 2,300 hourly workers at Cessna are covered by the agreement. Hawker Beechcraft also has reopened negotiations with the union as it considers sending work to Louisiana, Mississippi and outside the country.
Cessna’s initial proposal is for a 10-year agreement that cuts wages 4.2 percent, weakens job security, replaces the pension plan with a 401(k) plan and increases the share of the cost of health insurance paid by the workers to 30 percent, said union spokesman Bob Wood.
“There’s no job security in the current proposal,” Wood said.
“Wichita is based on aircraft,” said Cynthia Hise. “If you don’t get a good contract….” Darren Hise finished her sentence. “It’s going to hurt the whole economy in Wichita.”
Reflections on Job Security
Here’s the deal. The Hises and the union in general appear ready willing and able to “hurt the whole Wichita economy” if they do not get what they want.
I have to ask “How stupid is that?”
The answer is “tremendously stupid”.
Read the whole thing here.
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258 Comments
If Cessna needs a new home, I suggest ARIZONA. We will be glad to have them here.
“If you don’t get a good contract….” Darren Hise finished her sentence. “It’s going to hurt the whole economy in Wichita."
My oh my. What logic. How is it that they can not see that if Cessna or Beechcraft have to close their doors, it's going to be worse for the entire economy of the country rather than their only little piece of the local economy. Wake up people. Take the cut, go for the 401K, and help pay some of your medical. Better yet. Dump your union. You would save on those forced dues. BTW, any job that nets more than an unemployment check is better than no job at all.
Yes, labor unions constantly have to fight against ideologues who want big government to restrict and regulate an individual's freedom to make their own labor and salary decisions so that they can be forced to conform to socially mandated standards based on collectively acceptable labor skills. Wheeee!
The author has it right,,,Public Unions are Corrupt from the git og. Can we say CONFLICT OF INTEREST. When the Unions can own their employer, as is the case with campaign donations to elected officials, no good faith negotiations can happen.
Back in the real world the public union's conterpart baskes in the notion that what they do is irreplaceable and that the quality of their work is somehow better than their non-union competition. Wake up people, the only ones who benefit from these so called negotiations,,,are the union leaders.
Today, the definition of the rich is,,,,anyone with a job!
At least in Arizona these days, you'll most likely have an American-made product.
I'm sorry to get off topic but this really upset me, I got this email:
"In Houston , Texas at the Harwin Central Mall: '"
The very first store that you come to when you walk
from the lobby of the building into the shopping area had this sign posted on their door.
The shop is run by Muslims.
WE will be closed on Friday, September 11
to commemorate the martyrdom of Imam Ali
Imam Ali flew one of the planes into the twin towers
(Nice huh? )
I pray God Teaches you what freedom is.
CAREFUL that MAY be an INTERNET RUMOR copperpeony! They can be quite onerous and create more problems. Unless you personally saw that sign or really know someone who did…. PROCEED WITH CAUTION.
Laughable.
“BTW, any job that nets more than an unemployment check is better than no job at all.”
I respectfully disagree. Any job at all is better than an unemployment check. Maybe it’s my old-fashioned work ethic, but I would rather have in my hand a lesser paycheck knowing it was earned than to have one given to me for doing nothing.
Damn….I hope that store goes bankrupt quickly. I suppose there are many Muslims and socialists that will shop there though.
Check it out. It could be a fake. If not, the choice is yours.
And we have the former military airports and other Aviation Mfg as well as RIGHT TO WORK LAWS. Zonies would love to get 2500 new decent jobs for skilled workers. We also offer reasonable housing costs and you never have to shovel our desert sunshine!
Unions have become nothing other than mob rule. Its time for the workers to wake up and see what the hell the union is doing to the employer and the economy.
Obama FEC Turns Blind Eye to SEIU,
righttoworkfoundation.org
Big Labor's high command spent well over a billion dollars electing Barack Obama and other forced unionism proponents in 2008.
But where did they get the money?
Just weeks before the election, the National Right to Work Foundation exposed a shady scheme by the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) that threatened local affiliates with financial penalties for failing to meet a fundraising obligation to the SEIU's Political Action Committee (PAC).
But PAC contributions are only legal if they are truly voluntary, and unions cannot funnel cash from their general treasuries into a PAC.
Unfortunately, but unsurprisingly, the Obama Federal Election Commission (FEC) has refused to investigate the SEIU's crooked scheme.
Worse, the FEC stonewalled for months before releasing its reasoning behind the decision — well after the 60-day limit for Foundation attorneys to appeal in federal court expired.
PLEASE PASS THIS INFORMATION AROUND TO EVERYONE:
TIME FOR PRAYER – 9/11 Christian Center opens Sunday; Receiving death threats!
Pastor Bill Keller told me today that the Mariott has been hammered with calls to shut down the service. You might want to contact them and support the Christian Center's service on Sunday! Here's the latest from Pastor Bill:
"Please encourage all the people to get the word out about Sunday to everyone they know – especially those in NYC to come down and support the first service. The Marriott has been getting hammered with calls. People are upset about us being there. We already had to triple security. Using real pros. Death threats are up to 6. T rhetoric really jacked up after MSNBC, Salon, The Daily Kos & the Huffington Post ran with this. The arm of the Lord goes before us!"
9/11 Christian Center @ Ground Zero here: http://911ChristianCenter.com Lots of good information concerning the MTTC (Mosque Terrorist Training Camp)
Unions are sucking the life blood out of this country. They suck.
.
PLEASE PASS THIS INFORMATION AROUND TO EVERYONE:
TIME FOR PRAYER – 9/11 Christian Center opens Sunday; Receiving death threats!
Pastor Bill Keller told me today that the Mariott has been hammered with calls to shut down the service. You might want to contact them and support the Christian Center's service on Sunday! Here's the latest from Pastor Bill:
"Please encourage all the people to get the word out about Sunday to everyone they know – especially those in NYC to come down and support the first service. The Marriott has been getting hammered with calls. People are upset about us being there. We already had to triple security. Using real pros. Death threats are up to 6. T rhetoric really jacked up after MSNBC, Salon, The Daily Kos & the Huffington Post ran with this. The arm of the Lord goes before us!"
9/11 Christian Center @ Ground Zero here: http://911ChristianCenter.com Lots of good information concerning the MTTC (Mosque Terrorist Training Camp)
May the Lord help you overcome your stupidity.
The elections this year ought to be a referendum on unions along with the incumbents!
What is it that the unions are fighting for, they already have everything above everyone in either the public or private sector, not to mention no unions have been cut back during the recession and on top of that, they are still getting more and more bailout money and special deals in new bills.
These unions have been crushing businesses for decades. Not to mention, many ideologues are working on the unions behalf including our president. The unions along with the government have been restricting all kinds of businesses for decades strait.
So please Syntaxyboy, enough of your BS already.
I've been fortunate. I never had to accept a job that netted less than an unemployment check. That's not to say it wasn't close. AZ is not known for its largess when drawing unemployment benefits.
My Nonsense-O-Meter is pegging on this one. Note that the store itself has not been named. Sounds like another internet scare rumor.
Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have.
Ronald Reagan
Sound like something one would want to keep under one's hijab…or turban…
Gov't is consistent, they have not noticed the immigration problem over the last thirty years, nor have they noticed they manufacturing base fleeing due to union thuggery. How many jobs have unions created or protected lately Obama?
WELCOME TO TEXAS CESSNA…….come oooonnn doooowwnnnn……YEE HAWW
We Texans just love love love those fat UNION boyz running companies outta their home states.
Governor Perry is probably working to offer them tax incentives right now. Less see now, why is it the
Texas economy is booming?'-D……………..
Oh yeah, I remember……..RIGHT TO WORK
.
How did the unions work out for the steel mills? The Auto manufacturers and the subsidiaries? The railroads?
Answer: They priced their workers right out of the job market.
You just have to look at this people and think "hope they can eventually cop a clue."
http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
"Because the Only Good Progressive is a Failed Progressive"
I drew unemployment for a brief period many years ago and HATED it. I felt like a leech off society, rather than a contributor to it.
I hope No Bama fails.
ooops did I say that…oh well, I am already on the ever growing list.
I pray daily for the fallen and their families. The young men and women of our Armed Forces are among the most honorable people anywhere.
i see you got your random phrase generator fixed…
it's been observed that every union member who still has a job is essentially subsidized by those who no longer do.
Want Job Security?
Go into the United States Military.
Don't get killed in 20 years time, don't get your limbs blown off in 20 years time, don't lose your sight and or hearing in 20 years time and there could be a nice pension at the end of the road…. half your base pay.
Union Workers are just wimps. They want all the bennies with none of the risks involved.
Simply put, union employees want to dictate how their employer runs their company without putting any of their own union skin in the game. If you want the freedom to make your own labor and salary decisions, open your own damned company!
Nice Publius, as a former UAW, Teamster, and CWA member, my politics were never affected by union leadership…
This is why we read about unions using paid demonstrators or, 'astroturfing'. Or worse, cases like Kenneth Gladney who was "beaten, kicked and called racist names by Russ Carnahan’s SEIU supporters after a health care town hall meeting in August 09. Elston McGowan was still receiving workman’s comp(?) after being injured during his attack on Gladney as of March 2010." Note (you can't collect injury benefits unless you are on the clock)….He is about twice the size of Gladney by the way
The point to be made here is we will never see massive groups of union members politicking, most don't give a whitt about union 'causes'… .
Union leadership is merely tolerated by most rank and file members….as usual you have it right….
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/cour...
Ha Ha Ha….. ES….looks like we had the same idea, always eager to promote the
LONE STAR STATE.
.
Hey Copper,
Found the true story on Snopes.com- http://www.snopes.com/rumors/photos/martyr.asp
Seems the sign is real but Imam Ali is some Muslim guy from the 7th Century, not a 9/11 highjacker.
I saw the sign with my own eyes in a pic I got in my email which I obviously could not post on here. As far as the the Muslin names, they are all the same to me and Snopes is a biased progressive site, so I don't believe anything they say.
A Worker with real skills does not need a Union to keep his Job.
A Worker with real skills does not need a Union to be justly compensated for work done.
"Big" union, like the Dems, are gonna get a huge message sent right back to them each, this November
Freedom and labor unions my @ss!
What "freedom" do labor unions provide for individuals who abhor the Marxist and Mafia take-over of unions? If a state is not a "Right-to-Work" state, unions write contracts that FORCE workers to pay union dues simply for being employed in a company with a union contract even when the union engages in political activity that workers disagree with.
Union members are "Tools" for a tyrannical agenda and ruling elite; this is a far cry from Samuel Gomper's "bread and butter" unionism instead of revolutionary unions and his belief that "Socialism holds nothing but unhappiness for the human race…it has no place in the hearts of those who would secure the fight for freedom and preserve democracy."
Since obama loves Unions, that should be our first signal! Take them away. They're a power tool for socialists!
Right, and Unions haven't improved quality of teachers, or student outcomes, and the Union Members don't all agree with what Union bosses do with their Dues. Unions couldn't care less!
better believe it!
Iowa is a good place too with lots of flat land in case there is a problem
You are a fool Syntax.
We'd love to have Cessna but Harry Reid would sick the Culinary and Seiu unions on them.
You people think you have it bad? How about taking Harry off our hands so once again Nevada can be rid of the political rot smell.
WELL SAID! I have always been angry about the bad deal that our soldiers get! Screw the greedy Unions. Our military get screwed six ways to Sunday! When are they going to get the pay, benefits, and the freakin support (like guns & ammo & support from the commander in chief) that they need, to stay alive, and to have a life after service, and a Pension equal to the highest year earned!
Take care of our Troops FIRST!! (FYI, – I have no direct connection. My dad & uncle served but they did ok, & never complained. I got the idea that they thought things were bad, but they wouldn't talk about it)
My observation is that quality of care in V.A.Hosps can be sub-standard, AND you can't sue them if a Vet dies from mal-practice! That's b.s! Change that freakin law to mandate a higher quality of Medical care in V.A. Hospitals.
Protect our troops! They protected U.S! I think that obama's bogus stimulus Bills should go to state-of-the-art Military equipment & quarters…washing with handi-wipes in the middle of the desert is b.s! Tics me off.
Say bye, bye too Cessna, they're running a business not operating a branch of the Peace Corps. There are plenty of states that will welcome you with open arms, “right to work.”
Repeal Executive Order #10988! …put into effect by JFK in 1962, allowing public employees to unionize, disgusting
Allow me to clean up your non-sense. It seems you have many superfluous words here:
"…labor unions constantly.. fight …to restrict and regulate an individual's freedom to make their own …decisions so that they can be forced to conform to standards based on collectiv[ism] (and) acceptable …skills."
Much better…
Former union member, currently working in a union shop. Some guys are losers that lean on the union for 'protection' -the guys with real pride and skill resent paying the dues…
When things got bad we would look at each other and someone would say "all this and a pay check too".
Union Workers are only in the game for money…. they care about nothing else.
I don't know anyone in the Military who does it for the money…. the money is not all that good in the Military anyway.
If so-called union leaders were 'able' to successfully run companies why don't they and would they encourage their employees to form a union?
Sadly this is not new news…unions have been destroying whole sectors of the manufacturing economy for decades now.The unions just don't seem to know how to do anything else but destroy.It takes enlightement,foresight and skills to actually create something, but it is so much easier to take the money and run, like the unions do.At least some people are getting wise and de-unionizing…
Well I guess as long as the attorneys make it "legal", then being a crooked union boss is OK.
Friday? The 11th is a Saturday this year.
Hey Copperpeony, I would recommend that you contact Michael Berry at KTRH radio about this. I live in Houston as well and well know the Harwin area you are talking about. Michael is a radio talk guy on KTRH. I would like to see the story enlarged. Talk radio is a great place for it. If you do that, I bet it will get Andrew's attention.
heh……….
You spent six hours perusing Marx and Engels for that drivel?
Seriously, it's time you had that bump on your head checked out, at an Obamacare facility near you.
Oh and FYI, Norma Rae has been out of work for 29 years since the union drove the textile industry overseas. How's that whole union thing workin' out for her, huh?
Texas really has it together. Just the opposite of the Obama socialists who are destroying America!
We're trying our best to support Sharon. Reid has big money & connections that we have to expose!
The members must rise up with strong leaders and lots of TV & Breitbart coverage!Repubs will help because it's taking away a big tool from Omarxist and pal$.
Texas joined the Union why?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Texas
Unbelievable. The money for troops should be top of the scale! It kills me that the good are ignored, and the bums get rich off of them. Means we have to fight on.
I know that it's valor that runs through the veins of you precious soldiers. Unions & obama types do not care about that. They're evil.
I will fight to the end for our brave troops. Thank you. Sorry that you had to go through that. They should round up all the Unemployed Drug Dealers and send them over there.
Anyway, this internet is a great tool to get the truth out there!
Geez, these union drones piss me off. As someone who lives in the Wichita area and has done work as a sub contractor for several of the aviation companies I get really tired of listening to their lame excuses every time contract negotiations come up. They just can't seem to wrap their tiny, entitled, self absorbed heads around the fact that it is their fault that this is happening. Their demands for higher and higher benefits, wages and the like combined with the lack of production output is killing their industry. The biggest annoyance of all is that half of them don't seem to DO anything. I've been out on many jobs in these plants, and I've noticed some of these people watch me do my job all day long. And a lot of these people make 2-3 times what I do, and I'm by no means a beginner in my field. Would I like to make what they do? Sure. But their money isn't earned, it's demanded under threat of strikes and walkouts. It's extortion. I hope Cessna does move these jobs….teach these people that they are not the center of the universe.
The economy has moved past this debate.!! The US Government fueled by the Fed is bankrupt, FDIC (to keep Banks open) is bankrupt, SS, Medicare, Medicaid, all this Federal socialism was a Ponzi scheme and is bankrupt. Paper money is fiat money = worthless. The facade will crumble sooner rather than later. Prepare yourselves and your families, Union and Non-Union will both suffer greatly, stock up on food, monetary silver or gold coins, self-defense. Return to the Visions of the Founders for our country, become Americans. Time is not on your side, the MSM and Government is lying to cover the impending crisis. It's up to YOU to take care of yourselves,your family and close neighbors.
These days even a poor machinist is worth his weight in gold. It's really sad to see the unions hold back so much potential.
But that sure seems to be their mission.
You betcha! I post in California forums from time to time promoting Texas.
Good to hear from you.
And may He also present you with some lessons in mathematics. Listen carefully syntax, while I try to help.
There's no fucking money.
There.
Don't mention it.
In Marx's critique of political economy, commodity fetishism denotes the mystification of human relations said to arise out of the growth of market trade, when social relationships between people are expressed as, mediated by and transformed into, objectified relationships between things (commodities and money).
And for the last time you're a giant sanctimonous a-hole.
That should apply to you too gary.
Gee it's been many moons ago that I took TX history but if memory serves we were broke and the
US Gubmit agreed to bail our azzes out. Could be wrong though, as I said it's been a long, long time.
That dang info you linked must have been prepared by the Texas Chamber of Commerce, LOL They
were pouring it on pretty thick, I must say. But being a Texan, when you think about it though, seems
about right, cause we're all about the exaggeration. ;-D Ever heard the little ditty…
"Texas, it's a whole nother country"? It just happens to be true, however some of our tea sipping
aristocrats were embarrassed because of the misuse of the word 'another'.
I'm sure there are many regrets now and there will be many more before 'the temp' gets through
raking us over the coals. If the true numbers ever come out on how much the Demon's and the
Regime have funneled into turning Texas from red to blue we will all be amazed. Tie your hand
into that bullridin' rope as tight as you can, cause it's gonna be like riding the most rank bull the
PBR has available.
If Bill White fails to win the Governor office I predict more Fed cutbacks at NASA in Houston. Why
Imagine her
do we even really need the Houston facility if the Fed Govt is going to farm out space travel to
other countries? Politics can be a mean spiteful game. Reminds me of all the military bases we
lost during the various Democrat Administrations over the years. I even remember big cut-backs at
Pantex during Carter's Adm. I wish they had shut Pantex down and moved all those nukes some-
where else, perhaps Georgia.
.
Gee, it's hard to believe Sarah Palin isn't from TEXAS. She seems to play the game dressed in
kevlar We better put making her an honorary Texan at the top of our 'to do' list.
in a nice tight pair of jeans and a pair of fancy cowboy boots. She'd get some votes out'a that.
.
Ah, Marx, that great economic thinker who never had a real job, and who lived off other people's money until he found a way to dupe people into buying his crackpot economic snake-oil which has, to this date, yet to produce anything when put into practice but poverty, tyranny, madness, and death.
Communism/Marxism doesnt work as a system of social organization. It's essentially as antiquated and bankrupt as the free market society. But he's got some great critiques of capitalism!
Debord developed the concept of the society of the spectacle that parallels to Marx's notion of the commodity; for Debord, the "spectacle" made relations among people seem like relations among images (and vice versa), where people passively watch while their own representations are active (for example, on television). The spectacle is the form taken by society once the instruments of cultural production have become wholly commoditized, and subject to commercial trade, so that aesthetic value becomes ruled by commercial value, and artistic expressions are shaped by their ability to attract market sales. In the further development of capitalism, it is argued, the whole sphere of personal consumption is reorganized according to commercial principles. In that case, cultural products also gain "a life of their own" completely independently of the producers. Debord's work could be seen as a further interpretation of what Marx's critique anticipated, insofar as in modern society even the deepest intimacies of inter-subjective and personal self-relating become subject to commodification and are turned into separate "experiences" which can be bought and sold as a "product" for a price. The ultimate form of human alienation then occurs when people begin to view their whole being as a marketable commodity, and regard every human interaction as a (potential) transaction.
I got really bent out of shape when I got the same email. I showed it to a friend and he actually went to the store to talk to the owner because he had bought something there for his wife and was familiar with the guy.
The owner stated that they put up a sign every year when they close for something called Ramadan 21st which commemorates that particular Imam. If memory serves, he told my friend that one of his kids or an employee had printed the sign and they didn't snap to the fact that the date, the name and the wording would be a major problem for a lot of people. Apparently the date changes every year and in 2009 it happened to fall on 9/11. Right after it happened the guy was interviewed by two local news channels and he issued an apology which can be found with a quick google search.
The issues of work, the division of labor and the refusal of work has been an important issue in post-left anarchy.[7][8] Bob Black in "The Abolition of Work" calls for the abolition of the producer- and consumer-based society, where, Black contends, all of life is devoted to the production and consumption of commodities.[9] Attacking Marxist state socialism as much as market capitalism, Black argues that the only way for humans to be free is to reclaim their time from jobs and employment, instead turning necessary subsistence tasks into free play done voluntarily – an approach referred to as "ludic". The essay argues that "no-one should ever work", because work – defined as compulsory productive activity enforced by economic or political means – is the source of most of the misery in the world.[9] Most workers, he states, are dissatisfied with work (as evidenced by petty deviance on the job), so that what he says should be uncontroversial; however, it is controversial only because people are too close to the work-system to see its flaws.[9]
Play, in contrast, is not necessarily rule-governed, and is performed voluntarily, in complete freedom, as a gift economy. He points out that hunter-gatherer societies are typified by play, a view he backs up with the work of Marshall Sahlins; he recounts the rise of hierarchal societies, through which work is cumulatively imposed, so that the compulsive work of today would seem incomprehensibly oppressive even to ancients and medieval peasants.[9] He responds to the view that "work," if not simply effort or energy, is necessary to get important but unpleasant tasks done, by claiming that first of all, most important tasks can be rendered ludic, or "salvaged" by being turned into game-like and craft-like activities, and secondly that the vast majority of work does not need doing at all.[9] The latter tasks are unnecessary because they only serve functions of commerce and social control that exist only to maintain the work-system as a whole. As for what is left, he advocates Charles Fourier's approach of arranging activities so that people will want to do them.[9] He is also skeptical but open-minded about the possibility of eliminating work through labour-saving technologies. He feels the left cannot go far enough in its critiques because of its attachment to building its power on the category of workers, which requires a valorization of work
Dealt with a few 'real' people FROM Texas in my time, so I do wonder why they moved ('specially here), but I do love the independent streak you and others have. Ride a bull? Not for me, not at my young age. I am unbroken physically.
I would guess that any and all (or most) business that was driven out of Texas was by DemonRats, be they local or national… (probably notional and fantasy driven…)
"Gee, it's hard to believe Sarah Palin isn't from TEXAS. She seems to play the game dressed in
Imagine her
kevlar We better put making her an honorary Texan at the top of our 'to do' list.
in a nice tight pair of jeans and a pair of fancy cowboy boots. She'd get some votes out'a that."
Sarah is from my birth State. Tough little pasty Hombres (and woman folk) from there. Icy desert, as you might imagine… AK, the last frontier State…
"Imagine her in a nice tight pair of jeans…"???
Hmm… Pretty lady. Todd is sooo lucky. Brains, beauty and drive…
Muslim said what?
LOL….The ride a bull reference was meant to describe the rough ride we Texans will face at
the mercy of 'the temp's' regime. Sorry I may not have been clear. I've had too many naps this
afternoon, the brain is not functioning at full capacity. Tried to read that VDH piece two times,
dozed off both.
"Muslim said what?" There ya go GF making references that fly way over my head, after all I
have mentioned I am blond, and I use it as an excuse unashamedly, as needed. ;-D
.
The problem comes when no one wants to play the game as dictated. Like, say, the Mob. Or the Mexican cartels.
Just like with Chrysler and GM.
It's amazing how much wind one must blow to make an idea like "economic liberty is antiquated and bankrupt, what we need is a state with the power to lord of us" sound like anything but the abject quackery of narcissistic control-freaks.
Last time I checked, the ultimate form of "human alienation" tends to occur when jokers like you are given power.
You know how I think things should be "arranged" so that "people will want to do" work?
I think, I think… maybe there should be a way for people to be, to be… somehow compensated for the work they do, possibly in relation to the value of said work to others… but how? There's a missing piece to this puzzle, but for the life of me I can't think of what it could be…
Clever duck. I cannot imagine either.
Don't you think pats on the back from Dear Leader about fills that bill?
What would I do for crumbs from the table…hmm…thinking…hmm…I would wave goodbye.
This whole commune thing would work if we didn't have wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony as common within humanity.
Which one of those includes abject stupidity that believes in this philosophical tripe which has ALWAYS failed? Perhaps all of them get in the way of accepting reality.
You are the epitome of an over educated or over indoctrinated person. Throwing common sense to the winds. Back away from this a bit and just look at the simple economics of almost all unions and what they invariably turn into. Back away and take a simple historical look at the damage unions do. Who knows….. you might actually rejoin the human race.
Between big government regulations and unions we are going to be fortunate to retain any manufacturing in this country.
The morons in the I.A.M. had their dues money siphoned off by union leaders and given, along with their endorsement, to the democrats in order to elect Obama.
Obama turns around and cancels the manned space flight program at NASA and now close to 10,000 workers, many IAM, are set to lose their jobs at Kennedy Space Center alone. The economic impact on just the area around KSC will be devastating. You can already see the small businesses in the area closing shop. The unemployment rate in the area is already over 11% and continues to climb. All the impact on all of NASA and you're talking 10's of thousands of IAM workers getting the axe.
Piss on the Union, Piss on Barry Hussein, and double piss on anyone who votes to keep the cryptofacists in power!
But the labor leaders still have a nice cushy job so it's okay.
They are power tool for socialists!
Any right to work state would bend over backwards to have Cessna , but any state that Cessna moves to would be under assault to make it a non-right to work state.
You're asking an awful lot from a mindless drone.
ROFL!!!
Part 2
If you truly hate Union's, then give back all of these benefits and any of the other myriad of benefits that UNION WORKERS BARGAINED FOR! Tell your boss that you don't deserve these benefits, because you didn't have the backbone to fight for them. Tell him/her, that you hate Unions so badly, that you would Never want to "Piggy-Back" on a Union Workers Back. Also, tell them they are paying you too much, and that you'll Gladly Work FOR LESS. Explain to them that the only reason you are making as much as you are now, is because some poor Union Worker fought and won the higher wages, that your boss has to pay, in order to be competitive in the labor market. I'm sure your boss will love you and treat you "right".
Part 3 of 3
I hope you enjoy your New Employment Status. Lower Wages, No "Paid" Breaks, Lunches, Sick Leave, Vacations, nor Paid Holidays off. Now, you can truly be competitive in the "Global Market"! Instead of encouraging other workers in this country and the other countries of bring their wages and benefits up to your level, just give back everything "Union Workers", have Fought to get YOU, and you lower your standard of living to their level. Now you'll really enjoy your job!
Read your history and maybe you won't have to repeat it, or maybe your kids won't have to fight to get, what You gave away so easily… Oh yeah, you'll get to work til you die, since you gave back your retirement funds that Union Workers Earned for You!
individual's freedom to make their own labor and salary decisions "
why should i pay a union for the privilege to work?
We also have unions to thank for taxpayer money bailing out all the entitlement programs You get UnionRep.
I choose to work on labor day because I it is my opinion that organized labor is governed by thugs and marxists. they have destroyed the work ethic in this country by demanding excessive wages for jobs that are poorly performed at best, or as automation takes over "make work" jobs that exist only to keep a person on the rolls as a dues payer. they are no different than an organization like acorn. they have bought the dimocrat party, including the white house that is presently occupied by a marxist who shares his philosophy with hoods like trumpka, and stern. organized labor victimizes the very people that they supposedly are there to protect, their membership. So, this labor day I will be working on projects to run an effiecient totally without, or a minimal amount of union workers. I am the true "working man" that unions fraudulently purport to represent. when guys like me decide that enough is enough; you people won't have jobs!!!! enjoy your hot dogs!!!
ABOLISH THE "LABOR DAY WEEKEND" HOLIDAY……It is only an antiquated display of UNIONS exer-
cising their power. Replace it with Entrepreneur's Day…LOL…or Free Enterprise Day…or (your turn)…
While we eliminate the public sector UNIONS with our new-found power, might as well make some long
needed changes to the calendar too…
Change the Presidents Birthday observations back to their true dates.
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enjoyed reading the conversation fellas,…thanks.
If Cessna moves the jobs, it will be to China. They already build the new Skycatcher there; why not the rest of the line?
Maybe after the first few Skycatchers crash from material failures brought on by Chinese dishonesty, you Texans and Arizonians will see the jobs. But not until then.
The Union Leader Thugs tried to get FDR to allow for Public (gov't) Unions …even FDR realized that was too much power for the Union Thugs and said NO. It wasn't until JFK that it finally was pushed through …albeit Unconstitutional. Reagan had the "nads" to FIRE all of FAA Air Controllers saying it was not their right to strike. Need more Reagans.
Today, Congress's definition of the Rich & Wealthy: anyone not on welfare.
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