Monday Open Thread: Hamilton Edition
by PubliusToday, in 1804, Alexander Hamilton died after being shot in a duel with Aaron Burr. Rarely has so much been lost over so little.
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59 Comments
He did understand government though…
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed, and in the next place, oblige it to control itself."
Alexander Hamilton
The government we have today has no concept of 'obliging to control itself'…it (government) has been out of control for too long now…how do we snap it back?
Somewhere on the bigs we need to seriously talk about the "spy swap" Where is Brad Thor when we need him.
Something in this deal smells like week old fish.
10 years tracking and building a case just to hand them over in less than 48 hours?
WTF??? Over…
Yup, yup, it sure do stink. We've traded (seemingly) incompetent spies with who knows what information, spies that should be in our custody for, what exactly? Dangerous spies that will be walking our streets? Who are these folks that we are getting?
On the other hand, it did save us from the depredations of a federal reserve until the early twentieth century.
I agree! It was too fast, too soon! Something stinks BIGTIME!!
A brilliant man, who helped develop our country, and government in it’s founding, and his co-authorship of the “Federalist Papers” are invaluable to understanding what was in the minds of the founders. However his ideas about central government, and debt are the nexus of some of our problems today.
Follow the money. I wont be surprised if a number of Obama 's money men had contacts with these moles. Everything happened too fast. Eventually the truth will come out ,I hope an FBI agent retiring will spill the beans in October of this year.Karma!
We know what we got in return,………
but what did these Russians have that Obama wanted to terminate so damn quick.
Ralph,
What did we get? I have not seen the 4 people we got "named" or otherwise id's in the press, but I may have missed it.
Too many questions indeed…
It wasn't a bad deal, actually. We traded a bunch of incompetent fools for actual valuable people. The hot redhead might have been a 12 in bed (from some reports) but she was a -10 on the spy scale.
Who knows, maybe Obama wanted rid of them fast because his narcissistic ego can't even stand having his own INCOMPETENCE overshadowed by greater incompetence?
Hamilton was the advocate of a central bank. This was something he was definitely wrong about. While I appreciate the genius that was Alexander Hamilton, I side with Jefferson in their arguments
Some reports I've heard imply a few of the ones we traded for would not be coming to the US,
but remaining in Britain. The way this is being handled by the guv'mint and the press is creepy.
Duels were the way gentlemen settled longstanding disagreements, that would/could not be settled
by any other means. They were considered to be quite civilized, at the time. Now opponents just hire
sleazy PR firms, and duke it out via their cash. Guy with the deeper pockets wins. Should we bring
back dueling? Some folks would surely learn to control their speech more efficiently, if we did.
Reviving the practice of dueling could be an alternative to TERM LIMITS for our US Congress, no?
To be honest, while dueling may be outdated, there is not a week that goes by that I cannot identify at least one person I would love to slap in the chops with a glove. Not to shoot, but just to smack right in the soup coolers with a glove. You have to admit, it would be a rather effective treatment for pattern stupidity and an immediate redress for inconsiderate people.
Maybe they had it right in the past. I am sure there are some Darwinian implications to dueling….
Hamilton understood economics and social issues better, even in the context of 200 years ago, than do the libbos now trying to get it together in that mess of a White House now presuming to govern us.
The elementary principles of economics are either unknown to them or they are deliberately on a runaway agenda to weaken us and then remake the country in the image of their mentors, Alinsky, Marx, Wright, etc.
"seemingly incompetent", is key………..we are being spun to believe we gave up nothing, sorry
I don't buy it. If they were so inept, unimportant………what was the hurry to shuttle them off. They
could have been exchanged after their trial and conviction, just as easily. I heard mention that
a trial could have been embarrassing for the US. Tough sh!t, that's journalism's job, embarrass-
ing the US Gub'mint, IMO.
Perhaps they were funneling money from Russia into the Dems warchest all these years.
Does anyone remember the details of the alGore/Monk campaign donation irregularities?
Hamilton, while an important figure, also advocated for an elective monarchy, and was also a proponent of a central bank.
He has a point, and i agree, where he says the government must oblige to control itself… but if you look at the first part of that statement, he says the government must control the governed. That's a bit troubling, given his advocation for strong, central government with expansive powers.
Nonetheless, he saw the value in our chosen system of Constitutional Republic, and advocated for it very effectively in the Federalist Papers.
///// "….. that's journalism's job, embarrassing the US Gub'mint, IMO." ////
Not opinion, fact. The current crop (I originally typed 'crap' instead of 'crop', a Freudian finger slip?) of MSM journalist are;
1) lazy
2) stupid,
3) cowardly,
4) criminal
5) all of the above, or any combination of 1 though 4
Take your pick.
Maybe if this video gets some traction we can take Obama down a notch. I think everyone can relate to it and there's not much the left can say in response although they will try.
Obamas Vacation in Maine Instead of the Gulf
“The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power.”
~~ Alexander Hamilton, in The Farmer Refuted (1775)
The FSB know who and what our dear leader is….
The Russkies have got the goods on our dear leader. They know who and what he really is…
A. Hamilton is surely one of many who took the bullet to save our Republic from the likes of Burr and men like him. Thank you for recognition of a truly Great Founder.
I disagree. Would we have such strong trading operations back then without the central bank?
As strong militarily? Jefferson's lofty ideals was what helped us get here in the first place, true but Hamilton's pragmatism did expedite all that was necessary at the time.
That's the most troubling theory of all. If he is compromised somehow- then there goes our National Security out the window. Obama is once again putting our country in jeopardy.
If we did still have duels, then Teddy and Byrd would have been gone many years ago lol.
Hamilton was unique among the founding fathers for his vision of America as an industrial power. Jefferson wanted America to remain an agrarian economy.
It is not a theory according to my sources….
We lost a great man.
But we gained one of the best commercials of all time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLSsswr6z9Y
I'm related, on my mothers side, to Aaron Burr. Any comment I make now must be read in that light. Hamilton was an aristocratic son of a bitch who wanted to be King. Life can be a real bitch sometimes:)
Dayum… That stinks…
I forgot that one!
Priceless!
I'm afraid that by 2012, it will be too late to repair the damage to our ship of state. It's taking on water as we speak…
Well, I meant (or should have said) it was a theory of mine; now it seems you've verified that.
To quote Will Rogers, one of the greatest Americans, "There is some good in the worst of us and there is some bad in the best of us." Taken as a whole, I think Hamilton is deserving of our gratitude.
“I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.”
Mark Twain
Hamilton got it in the wrong order. His first priority should have been to "oblige it to control itself, " before insisting that government "control the governed."
The first time I heard it, I didn't believe it, but too many people have come to the same conclusion. The worst part is, that if we remove him by any means other than the ballot box, were risking civil unrest. Some even say, civil unrest IS the endgame….
I agree with what you both say…it was a bit confusing trying to figure out who he really was!
Civil unrest is what they WANT! They are actively recruiting for just that!
They've go too much at stake to let us take power back, and they will stop at nothing now that they're so close…..
"Only a fool will fight fair when his life is at stake."
Deus
Ouch!
Most of us do not want him in Maine, wish he would go to the "Left" coast instead.
That is why the Secret Service must evaluate all threats. People tend to telegraph what they are going to do by voice. They do a darn good job of it too.
Hamilton was a son of a bitch? Who was it that was tried for Treason? Answer; it wasn't Hamilton he died in a duel, Burr was found "Unstable" I don't think they meant he did not have a Stable. Read your history before you make a statement like that also don't brag about being related to Burr, that's as bad as being related to Obama
Duels were also the way thugs could bully their opponents into silence, substituting physical violence for reasoned argument.
They were considered civilized because the rules surrounding them controlled the violence, limiting it from breaking out into uncontrolled vendetta between factions.
Murder as a mode of debate is many things, but a rational basis for government is not one of them.
Um, I'm not related to Burr. My peeps didn't come here til the late 1800s.
Sorry, I thought I was replying JoeDoakes101
I agree, he was a bit confusing. I think he was just a pragmatist- he knew that they had to break with England, but he wasn't willing to be an ideologue and not compromise- he believed in freedom that much, in my opinion. He was a friend of freedom, and we was a powerful advocate for it in the Federalist Papers.
I think the quote you originally referenced is a very fitting quote for Hamilton…. it shows that he realized the need to restrain the government, but also his preference for a strong government… kind of contradictory and confusing, indeed. What a good and thought provoking quote you chose… thanks!
Great quote… i agree, despite some of his shortcomings , he deserves our gratitude.
Yes. Hamilton wanted to install an aristocracy to once again enslave the common people. Burr sided with Jefferson and those of his ilk in their thinking that men should live freely. Burr went off the rails a bit, but my far distant cousin did the right thing. If you don't like it we can meet in Weehaken NJ:)
There are enough wonkies out here thank you. Maybe he should go overseas instead? No state seems to want him these days.
Last week's romp in California was just another example of their mindset and with progressive leaders stoking the coals of racism and bigotry it's difficult not to assume there'd be civil unrest even if their idol was removed by ballot. Time will tell but it starting to seem we might be witnessing O's million person civilian army amassing.
That NAACP anouncement is just setting the stage for a manufactured incident…..any day now, folks….just a matter of time…
While definitely a complex man, I thank the Lord he didn't get his way early. We know he was a Monarchist, who wanted — among other insane ideas — the Supreme Court to have absolute jurisdiction over all cases.
Although James Madison would later in life champion states' rights, Publius' role in the shaping of our country is highly overrated. The Federalist papers, while fascinating, had little do do with the ratifying of the Constitution, and have countless contradictions in them.
I feel forever indebted to Thomas Jefferson, George Mason, John Taylor of Caroline during those days. The Bill of Rights is our saving grace, and the lifeblood of our republic.
Hamilton was the centralized government advocate of his day. Not my favorite of the founders. And showing up for the duel was his decision.
Yeah…………..the Dueling channel.
Pay per view duels every Saturday night at MSG, or the coliseum..
It'd be a sellout, SRO……..I can't wait!!!
Hey, since Obama is trying to promise us bread, why not bring back the circuses?
I really have to wonder though, how long before they start throwing Conservatives to the lions?
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