Monday Open Thread: Midway Edition
by PubliusToday, in 1942, the Battle of Midway ended. It was one of the most daring–and desperate–naval engagements in history. The US victory there marked the beginning of the end for the Japanese Empire.
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If you want to win a big battle, you have to have a BIG Plan and the Big nads to implement it.
Nimitz and his crew had them, and did it.
Huge risk, could have lost it all, but they did not lose…
God Bless all Veterans of Midway, D-Day, and all armed conflicts!
could you ever imagine the vermin currently holding National Office in Washington ever leading the Country through tough times to eventually Victory,I think not somehow
Whats the point that would be a waste of a crisis. Look at all the support the current admin has put toward private sector job creation. Or how about extending the government teat out to 24 months for unemployment? You have to destroy America before you can rebuild it in to a socialist utopia.
November will be this generations "Midway". Soros and his puppets will see the tables turned in January when the new conservative House is sworn in. Let the trials begin.
Pitchforks- aisle eight.
Midway was the turning point of World War II in the Pacific, thanks to Nimitz having the balls to gamble what was left of his fleet. It paid off because Japan lost their offensive capability pretty much for good, and was torn down to the same level as the depleted US Pacific Fleet with no hope of matching our production in replacing it.
I just heard the Education Secretary on Fox, and came to a stark conclusion- EVERY ONE of Obama's appointees is an incompetent, money-grubbing dimbulb. They only have one solution for every problem facing the country- tax and spend to the fullest extent possible. When you hear one of them speak, you've heard them all.
In the event of a real crisis, like another World War, they would indeed fold like a bad deck of cards. God help us if that happens- they would quickly wave the flag of surrender, or just bail out of the ship like rats.
A truly magnificent victory, though won with heavy costs. The fate of the TBF Avengers is particularly tragic, but also heroic since they diverted Japanese aircraft away from their carriers at just the precise time for our dive bombers to get in there unopposed.
We lost a carrier and over 300 brave men, but the Japanese lost four, which was a catastrophic loss given the fact that they could not build as fast in as much quantity as we could.
It wasn't just the material cost that crippled Japan, it was the loss of many excellent, experienced naval officers. When Admiral Tamon Yamaguchi, one of the most promising and able commanders in the Japanese fleet, chose to go down with his ship, the aircraft carrier Hiryu, an officer asked if they should empty the paybox and give it to some fleeing sailors. Yamaguchi said jokingly, "No, we'll need it for a square meal in hell."
This ready acceptance of death as punishment for disgrace and defeat in battle was one of the things that ended up crippling the Japanese Empire as the war dragged on, and men constantly chose the route of suicide instead of regrouping to fight another day.
This is quite a couple of days. First the anniversary of D-Day, and now Midway. On these days history was forever altered for the better. It's inspiring.
I thank God that we continue to have people between us and the world's murderers like those brave people now in uniform, carrying on the legacy of bravery and dedication those Naval aviators showed us in this battle.
I will always be in awe of the crews of those torpedo planes going in at wave-top level against the enemy's carriers without fighter cover. My God, what chutzpah!
We should be grateful that the ACLU hadn't yet decided that listening in on others' transmissions was impolite. Without the code breakers, we wouldn't have known the Japanese carriers were headed to Midway, aka "AF" in Japanese coded transmissions we broke.
Had today's mindset existed then, Hawaii would have been attacked relentlessly following a Japanese victory at Midway.
My only regret about that battle is that we didn't sink ALL the Japanese ships. Still, four carriers was a monumental victory.
My father-in-law was there, amongst many other Pacific battles. He’s been gone for some time now, and like so many of WWII vets, the memory fades as they pass.
We owe everything to a few people at Midway who risked it all to ‘Do their jobs!’ The admiral who launched the US attack at an extreme range. The 40 out of 42 torpedo bombers from the Hornet, Enterprise and Yorktown that were lost in a low level attack. Lt. Cmdr. Wade McCluskey’s decision not to turn back his 32 dive bombers from the Enterprise when low on gas. Lt. Cmdr. Maxwell Leslie’s formation of 17 dive bombers who joined McCluskey over the Japanese carriers while the Zeros were attacking the torpedo bombers.
All this and the political dynamics of this turning point of the Pacific war are wonderfully described in this web site (Scroll down to “Midway. 15 Minutes that Changed the World”):
http://scyllacharybdis.blogspot.com/2007_06_01_ar...
What a different world we would live in if these 15 minutes had turned out differently.
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I lost two great uncles at Iwo Jima. Also, an uncle on my mother's side fought in the islands and never recovered from what he saw there. He actually did talk about it, or at least some of it, unlike so many other vets, but that didn't help ease the pain very much. Our troops sacrifice not only their lives many times, but the survivors have often sacrificed their emotional and mental well-being as well. They need our prayers and support every day.
As stunning a victory as Midway was, just seven moths after Pearl Harbor, don't let hindsight seduce you into thinking that the Pacific war was a foregone conclusion thereafter. The fight in the lower Solomons, in particular, was a damned near-run thing- "Operation Shoestring," the Guadalcanal/Tulagi landings were called; and the IJN gave our Navy bloody thumpings at places like Savo and Tassfaronga. And those Marines hung on against repeated Japanese assaults and naval bombardments for three months with little food and only a trickle of fuel while the Japanese Navy, not the USN, had the upper hand in the waters around them.
Yes, we could build new carriers and other ships faster than the Japanese could- but not overnight, the first of the new carriers wouldn't enter service until 1943. When Hornet was sunk in October '42 we were down to *one* operational flattop in the Pacific… and that one, Enterprise, had herself been badly damaged and jury-rigged together.
A friend of mine from Serbia who was a WWII buff once told me,…………
The Russians had far greater and disproportionate number of tanks in the European theater,………..
I told him that it wasn't as disproportionate,……….
as the number of carriers they had in the Pacific theater.
May the world never forget the importance of,………
The Battle of Midway.
Say what you will about FDR and his ilk- and there is a HELL of a lot to say- but at least Roosevelt would have the sense to butt his head out and let the soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen DO their jobs and accomplish things like this, D-Day, Husky, Iceburg, and the Rurh/Colmar Pockets. The same with Truman at Inchon. And Wilson and Amiens.
Nowerdays, I think we will have to wage an all out battle to distrace th e POTUSSR with something, ANYTHING else, but the battlefront in order to obtain anything like victory.
God be with us next year. We will need it.
A truly classic example of how perseverance pays off. So many cliche's could be used to describe this battle but the best is "timing is everything".
Americans are truly heroic and at no time was that shown better then during this battle, a great opportunity to show how the Japanese indecision and overconfidence coupled with our never-give-up mentality led to their demise and saved the day for America.
God Bless the military, our troops and the United States of America.
Do pitchforks come in 50 caliber ?
Does your friend ever ponder if Russia would have defeated Germany if the U.S. hadn't kept Japan from focusing on Europe?
I read somewhere that Germany wanted Japan to attack Russia and not the U.S., which would have split the Russian forces. But, since Japan thought that a preemptive strike would make the U.S. weak, they chose the route that led to the downfall of the Axis.
From my understanding (very limited) of WWII Russian tactics, eventually they would have run out of bodies to throw at German bullets.
Herman Wouk in his "War and Remembrance" novel explores Midway in detail, and includes the names and units of all the torpedo and dive bomber crews who were lost.
Part of what stopped the Germans' drive to Moscow in the winter of 1941 was the fresh divisions arriving from the far east. The Soviets transfered them when it became clear that Japan was no immediate threat.
Midway was the pivotal point in WWII. I feel the awakening of patriots in the form of the Tea Party has put the Obama administration on the defensive but I wouldn't count my chickens just yet. Keep strong and don't let up.
That's my understanding as well.
I've had a couple discussions that the other person stated that WWII would have been won by the Russians without the U.S. help. I find that hard to believe, based on the poor military tactics used by the Russians. Granted Germany's Russian campaign wasn't very wise either.
Roosevelt was an actual leader, think of him what you may. He knew how to stay out of the way and let his folks do their job. Besides, I don't think he'd have challenged the likes of Patton and Eisenhower…do you?
excellent points there L6,….
especially the bullet / body one,….but,……….
let's not, like my Serbian friend, exalt our contribution to the war
by not recognizing the contributions of others.
In reality, it was the American economic engine and not anyone's strategy,….
that carried the day.
Unless you say that our Found Fathers' "Democratic Republic" strategy allowed us to have the economic/manufacturing ability to out build the "Socialists" strategy.
It shows you what Americans can do when their hands aren't tied behind
their backs…..God Bless all our Servicemen and women!….
Turning point. THE seminal Navy battle of WWII and maybe of the last few centuries. Two great fleets slugging it out just a few months after Battle of the Coral Sea – the very first naval encounter where the opposing fleets never actually made visual contact – it was fought by aircraft.
As crippling as the loss of four big carriers was, the loss of pilots, deck crew and mechanics was just a catastophic. 3000 Japanese personnel died that day – about 300 brave Americans. Decisive victory.
The men of VT-6 and VT-8 are true heroes…out of gas, with vastly inferior planes and armaments, they still chose to attack. Not scoring single hit on Japan's carriers, they were mostly obliterated…and they knew this before they attacked. And yet, this "failed" attack is precisely the reason that dive bombers then found enemy carriers loaded with refueling/rearming Japanese planes, with no overhead protection. Wade McCluskey's heroic decision to attack the carriers with little or no fuel remaining in his dive bombers is another example of American "rugged individualism", a trait that seems strangely deficient in much of American politics (and culture) over the last 30 years.
They were running out of bodies.
By 1945 the Soviets were pulling people from factories to keep their army up to strength. That was reducing their manufacturing. If the war had continued, or if for example there had been no D-Day, the Soviets would have run out of men before the Nazis.
Further, and this is critical, American trucks were the only reason the Soviets could execute and sustain their offensives as they did. You can dismiss the aircraft and tanks, and the non-insignificant British contributions of same when they were pressed to the wall themselves, but it was the logistical support and infrastructure that allowed the Soviets to reconquer the Ukraine, never mind conquer Eastern Europe from the Nazis.
I'm not meaning to detract from their deeds but, most of the torpedo planes were devastators not avengers. The avengers were just beginning to enter the fleet at that time.
Jack
Poll:
Should the American Flag be banned in school?
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/05/06/america...
President Tartuffe Allah-bama (all bow), an American, and a Christian, issued a brief statement five minutes ago:
—————————————
"Midwai? ORLY? No wai! Party time, lolz".
—————————————
This little piece of American history is what inspired me to serve my time in the Navy on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. If you're going to be a part of something, be a part of something big.
HELEN THOMAS RETIRES! Just thought I'd pass along the joyous news!
Not to sure about that the L4S,…………
we sure could have used a few more foot in the mouth episodes from this witch
before the November elections.,..but than again,………….
the lefties are probably clamoring to take her place.
Why? She can't be tied to the Administration and the MSM is already oblivious to any criticism of itself. As far as they're concerned they've been doing a bang up job all along! I see this as a win for America and for Israel.
Obama didn't just party down to the music ♫♪ yesterday. Obama also managed to completely blow-off the anniversary of D-Day while listening to noted anti-Semite Desmond Tutu paraphrase Chairman Mao when he said, "Security is not something that comes from the barrel of a gun."
Obama is despicable when he receives those words so well on day he also refuses to honor those THOUSANDS of Americans who died 66 years earlier.
PS- Thanks to Director John Ford for keeping some of the history from The Battle of Midway alive.
Amen Brother! AMEN!
Ewald,
Yes, it is inpiring.
It always makes me think of "Henry V" and King Harry's pep talk "…Men abed in England this day will hold their manhoods cheap…"
[...] » Monday Open Thread: Midway Edition – Big Government Submitted on:Monday 7th of June 2010 05:01:06 PM voted by 5 users [...]
Russia could not have won against Germany without American help. Yes the faced a lot more divisions of germans than the allies did on the western front, but Hitler keep pulling his best divisions off the eastern front to send to Italy or France. Without the fighting in those places a lot more german troops would have been in Russia.
Also russia would have starved without shipments of food and trucks to deliver it. Russian general Zhukov once said Spam and (US built) Studbaker trucks beat the germans on the eastern front.
its kinda hard not to run out of bodies when your main military tactic to clear a mine field is to march your troops over it in a line so that all the mines get blown up making it safe for tanks to follow. Or just human waving machine gun nests until they run out of ammo. But the Russian troops did it, of course the choice was go froward and maybe die or stay here and we will kill you.
torches aisle 7
tar and feathers aisle 6
Lasso's, nooses, and lamp-post's……………looks like you're in the FRONT ROW!!!!!
It's because they don't commemorate D-Day in Kenya.
Yes, and Vice Admiral Yamaguchi's decision to go down with his ship was helpful as well.
It took perhaps their best carrier sailor out of the fight. I hope he enjoys the view from the bottom of the Pacific.
The reason the Battle was the Beginning of the End for the Japanese Empire was because the Japanese Navy just couldn't replace the carriers it had lost, it had taken them almost two decades to get the Navy they had at the start of the war. To put things in perspective the Japanese had 12 carriers that took them about 15 years to build, and in four years of non-stop war production the U.S. had gone from just 8 commissioned carriers to 99 commissioned carriers. The U.S. also produced a countless number of assorted ships, planes, tanks, and guns and trained swarms of brave trained fighting men.
After the attack on Pearl Harbor the Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto said "I fear we have awakened the sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve."
No truer word were spoken that day and as soon as American War Production went to full speed the Japanese Empire had lost the war.
Now I am not trying to diminish the bravery and heroism of all who fought in that terrible war. Quite the opposite actually, see ships, tanks, planes, and guns are all but useless when they have no mind to control them. The ones that do control them however had the strength and courage to do so. To protect our freedoms oh so dear to us so that we could have a chance to defend them now, and we are doing that right now ladies and gentlemen, protecting this shining city on a hill against all enemies domestic. While they protected and are still protecting us against all enemies foreign.
/hat tip/
Amen!
If Obama was president back then the loss would have been bushes fault. Some one had to say it.
To all of those that sacraficed some of us will never forget sadly others like Obama and his clown crew will never care.
[...] » Monday Open Thread: Midway Edition – Big Government [...]
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