Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition
by PubliusToday, in 2008, the price of 1 oz. of gold hit $1,000 for the first time. In future years, this may seem like the floor price.
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167 Comments
I just happened to watch Goldmember last night. What a coincidence!
Gold has been out of reach for me forever…I am glad that there are some out there, who have the opportunity to get i on this, as the (paper) dollar is now worth next to nothing!
Peter Schiff was right.
that is why we need to stock up a little at a time
on the basics because the inflation is going to hit
hard and soon
For those that think the price it out of reach, there is another strategy. Check it out here: http:// http://www.gradedms70.com
The image of the Fine Gold reinforces my assertion that Crummy Gold doesn't get enough respect.
For those that think the price is out of reach, send me an e-mail and I will share with you an easy way to afford it.
I have read where gold may hit $2,000. This will depend on China and what it does about the dollar???? I have another theory. I think that Israel will attack Iran and send it there. See my post
Israel Again Proves a Difficuly "Ally. "Why Now? Is Iran the Reason?
If you really need to get rid of gold because the dollar is worthless, bullets may be a better choice.
Y'all remember the old Gatlin brothers song, "All the gold in California, is in a bank in Beverely Hills, in somebody else's name."?
It's gone.
Symbolic of the crumbling American dream.
I miss Larry Norman. . .
Well, now that it's $1,000 an ounce…I don't see that happening!
In the end, it is all "fool's gold"!
The gold topic is an interesting one.
Personally, for me, and only my opinion, gold and precious metals is the biggest scam there currnetly is. Glen Beck is hawking it, the precious metals dealers like Monex are hawking it, yet it is a scam. Why would any serious investor want to jump into anything, at the top of the market, unless you really needed tax losses? I have known very few people who ever came out ahead with metals.
Back in the 80's, and again in the 90's I bought alot of metals. Gold Kruggerands from South Africa were hot agt the time, and I also bought silver. Big bars of silver. Do you know what a pain in the ass it is to get a safe, or a vault to keep the stuff safe?
Buying metals now, would be akin to jumping into the housing market in 2007, or the tech Nasdaq bubble in January 2000, or the oil market like Warren Buffet did, in June 2008.
Don't anyone take my investment advice, but in my opinion, the reason everyone is hawking gold so much, is they have to keep the hot air circulating, to keep air in the bubble so it continues to rise.
There is nothing more sacred than individual freedom, for it was the individual’s sacrifice of blood, body, and life at North Bridge in 1775 that gave meaning to our words of freedom before a single word of liberty was cast on our sacred documents. The words of some of our fathers are laid in granite, but the trial of time has worn down their connotations and thus are vulnerable to scheming and servitude. The simple virtues that formed our government are being exploited to chain us to a course unattended by those who did the writing. We have lost our measure of what it means to be an American to the corruption of our government.
You could try to stock up on some silver or even copper.
Save you pennies (pre-1982 specifically). It's not a huge effort and the copper content of them is worth more than the penny itself.
Also, you can even save even more by getting nickels instead of dimes. Both nickels and dimes contain the same two metals (copper and nickel) but nickels contain more of both and you get twice the quantity of nickels than dimes (Coin specifications: http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/?action=coin... )
It's a simple and small way to save.
Today, our government has become feral and the talk of freedom dismissed to placate the irresolute and corruptible so it may finish it’s task of conformity and total power. The law of the land was perverted to gives us the illusion of representation and thus an mirage of self governance to give the few the power over the many. Our liberty is being stolen one progressive tax, one progressive regulation, one progressive manipulation at a time and all in the name of the public good or is it for government good or is it the for the power and wealth of the few. We have arrived at a time when government picks who will succeed and who will fail and we are quickly approaching the dictation of who will live and who will die at the whim of a politician.
The measure of ourselves and our government is the devotion in our belief in individual sovereignty. When this measure is swept silent, then America will cease to exist. This is not a game, it is all of our lives, our country, our freedom and our posterity to defend or suffer. You can not steal another man’s freedom without the selling of your own, that is the lessen of history. Once government feasts upon the freedom of man it will not stop.
In this time of lie is a truth and the truth is a lie we find ourselves at the moment of decision. Do we finish our duty to individual sovereignty begun in 1775 and complete a nation dedicated to that freedom or do we accept progressive slavery and become property to a crown. We must honor our history and our fallen and finish our duty to individual sovereignty and measure ourselves and our government to that individual sacrifice or the echo of that shot so long ago will cease to exist and the trading of words will be over.
Nothing like investing in lead and brass. ;^)
Although dated, here is a very interesting article about gold:
http://www.bullnotbull.com/archive/gold1980.html
There are a lot of similarities between then, and now.
"Once at the top, would you have the courage to sell? Undoubtedly there were people at the time calling for much higher levels: "The economy is going to hell! Gold is going to $2,000 and beyond! You'd be a fool to sell." Times may change, but human nature does not."
Gold and metals, are nothing more than a commodity, like corn, and sugar, and oil. I watch gold and oil on a daily basis, as they are good markers. They are appreciating currently in the market. Why> is is because gold and oil are more valuable? No. It is because the dollar is getting weaker. That is why it costs more dollars to buy them, the dollar is getting worthless. In 1980 dollars, current gold is worth about $275.00 an ounce as opposed to the current $1,000.00 per ounce, and current oil is worth about $19.00 a barrel as opposed to the current $82.00. Everything is relevant.
I'll not be a slave.
Barrak Hussein Obamas Hope and Change has turned into Hoax and Chains. I'll not be shackled.
I really know very little about buying gold, I tend to agree with you…If things really get bad and you have a safe deposit box, the banks might not let you have access to it;;;;Beck isn't the only one hawking it, you can't turn the radio on or the television without hearing or seeing tons of gold commercials….That was another thing that made me feel a bit uneasy….I'm wondering if the best thing to do is to learn to be self sufficient?
"I'm wondering if the best thing to do is to learn to be self sufficient?"
If folks could do that, the sense of freedom experienced would be empowering. I wonder, has anyone ever been able to eat a gold bar? I wonder how it would taste? Sure, it might give folks the warm and fuzzies, but in the scheme of things, in my opinion gold is worthless. In my world there are things worth more than gold. Powder, lead, salt, meat, a garden and a fresh source of non-government water. With those six things, it doesn't matter to me who is in the White House.
I tend to agree with you, Cowboy, but I must say that precious metals have a built-in hedge against inflation quality to them. However, like anything else, their value fluctuates with the supply and that supply can be manipulated. We could very well be seeing a manipulated market value for precious metals which is hiding their real value.
For whatever it's worth, I think that the lesser precious metals will be a fine investment though, for no other reason that they are more utilitarian in their nature.
Who was it again that got us away from the gold standard and enabled the dollar to become worthless?
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
That's a very good post, however, as I stated before, metals do have a hedge against inflation aspect to them.
For example, in Roman times, an ounce of gold could buy you a very well made toga and sash, an excellent pair of comfortable sandals and a fabulous meal. Today, that same ounce of gold could buy you very-well made suit with a belt, an excellent pair of shoes and fantastic meal at a top-notch restaurant.
Personally, I tend to look at things from a contrarian point of view. Here is my true opinion. I am a fan of both FOX News, and Glen Beck. FOX is owned 5.7% by Saudi Prince Alaweed and I have no problem with that either. Prince Alaweed is also the single largest shareholder in Citi Bank, and he owns huge gold reserves. Who then stands to gain the most, from rising gold prices? Prince Alaweed. It bothers me that every other ad on FOX, and on Beck is an ad hawking gold. Those precious metals dealers are as slick as aluminum siding salesmen, all they are working for in their slick sales pitches, and high gloss brochures, is a sales commission.
Honestly, do you think that in a hyper-inflation situation that people with gold will somehow be better off? When people are starving, food has the most value and gold is but a useless hunk of metal.
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
- George Washington
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from it's government"
- Thomas Paine
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
-Thomas Paine
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Ben Franklin
They knew, they saw it coming in the future the same way they experienced it in the past.
Water is the new gold in the west……..I agree Cowboy…..you can't eat gold ….
Been working on that investment since I was sixteen and first employed. Actually going shooting here in a few hours, got 3 bricks of .22 and 300 rounds of .40 to "un-invest" today.
And hell, 1 oz. of gold at the current price (1,101.48), I could get a new gun today and still buy more ammo than I could put out of it at the range later…
35 bucks a gram currently…
I tend to agree with the sentiment that buying gold when you can't watch an hour of tv without seeing gold commercials is probably not wise.. and about water being more important and maybe soon more valuable monetarily. I noticed another interesting twist to a commercial this week. The 'survival seed pack' – enough non-genetic altered garden seeds in a sealed tube for storage has now added to their sales pitch that– 'in a severe economic failure these seeds would be more valuable than gold and hold more barter value as well.' — right in line with y'alls self sufficient point. And Cowboy's point about what self sufficient does for your self-esteem and character can't be over -stated. Even without economic failure – it's an important but now missing ingredient to the American culture.
GOLD EMMMMM EMMM EMMMMMM. I never understood gold never will. It is for the most part an ornamental metal. Its value? It has held its value for ages but why? My fear in investing in gold is one day everyone will wake up and go. "Gee it sure is shiney but what can I do with it" Im not suggesting that currency has any real value either, but at least you can burn it to stay warm. I like land "Land Katy Scarlett its the only thing that matters". It is intreasting Roosevelt used Gold to moneterize debt. Obama I suspect is planning on inflation doing the same thing. The intresting thing about inflation is it trashes the debt holders, the savers and crushes the working poor. Thanks to COLA it leaves uneffected the unions and the dependent classes. WOW sounds like income redistribution.
Just keep in mind Israel can't do a thing without our approval. If they get it and attack though, gold will be soaring. Enjoyed your article.
But should we buy it right now, maybe not. Most of the times, during other recessions the price goes up to $1400 and then every time, it drops, any investment would be lost. If you have buying it as insurance it may be worth it but not as an investment. I have been watching the price of Gold on http://www.americanparchment.com and found that it is still very volatile. The problem right now is that the Dems and the President are destroying the dollar. After November 2010, when the Republicans hopefully take back the House or the Senate they will try to keep a good lite on what Americans want and do things that will strengthen the economy and stop the spending. If they don't they will be thrown out again, give them a chance. If the Republicans get in there and are able to help stop the destruction of the dollar, that gold will be worth very little, that is why it may not be the best investment and when it comes to insurance, Food is my number one concern, then gold, you can always eat the food if the recession goes away.
The best financial position to be in is; Out of Debt.
I don't know but I'm blaming Karl Rove
Imagine how much more you could save if the regulations and taxes werent so bad
I know this says something about Gold, but since it's also says open thread, my wife and I are wondering how health care reform if passed would actually affect us?
We are empty nesters, getting health insurance through work, with a household income a little under 100k annually, play by the rules, and look forward to a little traveling, visiting our upcoming first grandchild type, etc.
It seems we would continue getting health insurance through our work, but probably be unable to not get it through work if we didn't want the insurance. Probably a forced deduction like income taxes, even if we wanted to to do a self insure type thing.
It seems like the only thing that would actually change for us would be a reduction in freedom to choose.
Any comments, clarifications, amplifications, etc.
Aside from silver & gold being the only Constitutional and therefore legal form of money (and with good reason…
given the depravity of politicians,greed crazed capitalists and Kenzian economists )…I have relatively little interest
in the shiney stuff….however it nestles nicely in a gun safe,which I recommend,having lost a sizable collection in
a catastrophic fire (military amo boxes are the safe way to store those other precious commodities)….it is,
however insurance that holds it's value better than fiat currencies or political promises.I's not an investment unless you can take your profit when you achieve your goal/expectations….which requires discipline and timing….
but I'm just a farmer and what do I know about gambling….hahaha
This is so right Paul. It's liberating beyond words. everyday life is dramatically improved in so many ways. – and then there is the icing on the cake that being contrary to the bretton-woods fed/res scam is…
When Isreal attacks Iran, I would be a lot more concerned with the price of oil than I would be about the price of gold
I started my arsenal 10 years ago and because of the inflation in the gun market, I could sell my guns at a higher price than what I paid for them brand new. Thing is, unlike gold, NO ONE gets my guns!
That's my thinking too.
If ALL I had was a freezer full of beef
And ALL you had was a safe full of gold what would be the exchange rate.
In 1980 my then boss bought an ounce of gold for $660 (the historical high at that time) and bragged that it would beat the stock market or a CD. If he sold that ounce today he would, figuring for inflation, lose $800. I'll stick to CDs and mutual funds.
"but I'm just a farmer and what do I know about gambling….hahaha "
Getting to be spring time!
"It seems like the only thing that would actually change for us would be a reduction in freedom to choose".
Yeah don't worry about that, what's the worst that could happen, O is looking out for YOU.
Check this out:
http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf
From 1976 to 1980 , the average price of gold quadrupled, then over the next 2 years, the price was cut in half, after that it took 26 years for the average price of gold to return to the 1980 average, and that is in static dollars, not inflation adjusted. So, honestly if you bought gold in 1980 and held it until today, you just recently saw any type of actual gain on investment if any at all, since in 30 years the absolute price of gold has only doubled. T-bill at 2% anyone?
Check this out:
http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf
From 1976 to 1980 , the average price of gold quadrupled, then over the next 2 years, the price was cut in half, after that it took 26 years for the average price of gold to return to the 1980 average, and that is in static dollars, not inflation adjusted. So, honestly if you bought gold in 1980 and held it until today, you just recently saw any type of actual gain on investment if any at all, since in 30 years the absolute price of gold has only doubled. T-bill at 2% anyone?
You could say that gold is a currency, not an investment. A currency that cannot be "printed" up out of nothing. The "exchange rate" on the currency is rising because there is a whole lot of financial problems around, and the entire world has settled on trying to print their way out of trouble. It is all Bernanke can and will ever do. Touch anit-inflation is cheap talk to try and have it both ways. And now BHO gets to select three more Fed governors, including Yellen, who's quoted as saying she'd have negative interest rates if possible. Gold is also a relatively tiny market which contributes to sharp price swings in either direction. So there are fundamental forces in place pushing the price up. I don't believe it's reached bubble stage yet. If and when that happens, one thing we've learned from the last three bubbles, is first, that craziness goes far beyond what seems reasonably possible, and second bubbles always end badly and do attract dishonest players before all is said and done.
THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE
here's a thought, Gold is only of value when the goods you are seeking to purchase are more abundant than the gold itself.
It's a case of supply and demand, on a normal day, gold isn't a great investment, however, if inflation occurs, Gold will retain it's value during inflation.
If things get worse and socity breaks down, other goods (such as food, gas or ammunition) over time will become more scarce and your gold will buy less.
That said. It will take a severe shortage to remove gold from the top of the barter list. The only item that will outlast golds value in such a terrible situation is probably food water and ammunition.
Those are my thoughts on gold, it's protection from inflation, and a medium term survival tool.
Right now, as we speak, there are folks from southern California, here in Montana trying to buy up water rights on the Yellowstone River, trying to trade out our water here, down south.
One thing for sure: whatever dollars one holds are going to have a lot less purchasing power a few years from now.
I like the self-sufficiency strategy as well, but that's not so simple to achieve either.
Precious metals & self-sufficienct measures aren't mutually exclusive. And neither has to be all-or-nothing. People could start by getting out of debt, stocking a few extra supplies, improving home security, learning self-suffiiciency skills, etc. In any case, folks better start thinking about ways to prepare for a storm that's coming. In 2008, money-printing and bad debt contributed to a near finanical meltdown. Our brilliant leaders decided the solution is…multiplying the money-printing and bad debt. It has succeeded so far in postponing disaster.
In the event that the unthinkable happens, I am pretty sure that we won't be walking around with bags of gold dust to purchase staples. To my way of thinking the more independent we are in terms of being able to fend for ourselves. That means all the things mentioned above and more. The bad thing for city boys like me, is there is no way to stash enough fuel to keep things running if the power goes out for an extended amount of time. there is much to consider.
Yes.
You just reinforced the point I was trying to make above. When it comes to precious metals, you'd have been further ahead in 1980 to have bought a new Corvette, or Mercedes sports car convertible, never driven it, put it in climate controlled storage and brought it out to auction today. It would have appreciated more, dollar for dollar, than gold, and that car, in the scheme of things is only sheet metal and plastic…………
Farmers and ranchers don't gamble at the tables. It would be boring.
Look back in history at the old Jews, of Europe, back to the days of the World Wars. What did they covet as a hedge? Diamonds. They always kept a reserve, and they are portable and easier to hide. You can hold more value in diamonds in the palm of your hand, than a man could lift, if that value were converted to gold.
The flaw in your cowboy logic is you fail to consider the vast amount of money being created by Bernancke. If you expect significant inflation, the precious metals may well be a solid investment. No, you don't have to eat the gold, all you need to do is sell it for food.
If you expect deflation, holding cash will be your best option.
Hmmm, Obama appointed Yellin to the Fed last night. Expect inflation:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/03/025...
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/po...
That's so true.Gold only has value because we assign this intrinsic value to it in relation to it's worthiness as a useful commodity, as all other commodities, except food and water, which are the most basic and most needed essentials to live.
Our entire economy, at it's most basic level, is supported by consumer confidence, nothing more.When the people realise the extent of our economic woes and lose confidence in a return to prosperity the sh!t will hit the fan, so to speak. +Hanzo+
I would be a hell of a lot better shot than I currently am, I know that much at least. Hard to practice much with the price.
I stumbled on another point.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODMyM2Yz...
The takeway is the idea that the US might eventually be forced to price our bonds in foreign currency. That is what happened to Argentina. That did not end well for them.
Yes, out of debt and prepared for the worst. +Hanzo+
I agree with you Cowboy.
You can't eat gold, and you can only produce a limited number of things with it.
I really wonder where folks come up with it being a store of value. Glenn Beck maybe?
Is that Copper-jacketed lead? ;^) +Hanzo+
"Our brilliant leaders decided the solution is…"
Consider this if you will — there was no decission to be made because there is no choice. The 1913 chosen Bretton-Woods financial system dictates that monetization is the only choice that will keep the Bretton-Woods debt based system alive. It's going to fail anyway, because the $trillion dollar layer of debt fed/gov provided it is only temporary, is about the peak debt possible and the source of last resort. Under Bretton-Woods declining debt is deflationary and immeninent failure of the system. – so, we not only had to maintain growing debt for Bretton-Woods to have a few more breaths of life but if we don't now monetize that debt Bretton-Woods' long-term ability to survive declines as well.
The needs of the debt based system dictated the path taken. There was no choice.
There were choices, bad choices, made. We didn't HAVE to borrow and spend on bailouts, ineffective stimulus etc. But the bad choices might be inevitable in a democaracy where politicians have powers of taxation and fiat money and dole it out with abandon to cronies and special interests. Some villains here being dishonest , irresponsible politicians, unlimited power to tax-and-spend, fiat money, and a growing number of Americans with an entitlement mentality.
Isn't it true that George Soros (wiki- Man that broke the Bank of England) has taken on gold and is actually betting against the American dollar? The influence he has on the Administration and media is a concern. Isn't it possible that all this out of control spending is playing right into that. When you think our president doesn't know what he is doing, he may know exactly what he is doing. Couple that with the obvious lack of caring for who and what America is, this is the theory that makes sense to me.
If gold is such a great investment, why are they selling it on television? If you had an investment that was guaranteed to go up in price, you'd hoard it, not sell it.
Once you see gold commercials on tv, that means the market for it is at or near the peak.
Is Boone behind them? He's been tryin' to sell Texas Panhandle h2o for 10 or 15 yrs.
Old SoB, wonder who'll torment us after he's gone. Can't wait to find out, maybe Kent
Hance of Jim Sowell. I guess they're everywhere. Each region of the country probably
has it's own predatory movers & shakers.
Mark – we are of the same mindset. There are core cultural issues to be addressed.
I just propose to consider some of these core issues individually and the inevitability of a debt based financial system is pretty well based in math. – a natural law.
another kinda out-of-the-box consideration about fiat money, taxation and digital transfers of money. I read it somewhere and the concept keeps coming back to thought.. – fiat currency and digital currency transfers pretty well makes money ficticious. No real limits to what the gov can create and provide to the dependent citizen, corporation or employee. With this in mind there is no real need for taxation to provide revenue for government operations. This leaves taxation's only real purpose to be used as a control mechanism.
Gold is an asset that people love to hate. Politicians and Wall Street hate it because it's like anti-matter in a world of fiat money, exotic financial instruments and leverage. That said, i'm no fan of the tv ads either.
No.
Boone isn't behind them. For years though, he was focused on the water in the Canadian River, up in the Panhandle, wanting to build his pipeline and move that water downstate to Dallas.
The last few years, as usual he was focused on his Pickens Plan and wind energy. Interesting enough, and not too many people know this fact, in 2008 when he was pushing the Pickens Plan, Madame Nancy Pelosi and her husband invested in Ol' Boones whirl-li-gig biddness….
It is scary that you would agree with me.
Nah, I won't bite on Glen Beck being behind gold. He is only selling advertising. It doesn't matter to Beck if it's gold, or Charmin toilet paper, or Viagra. He'll hawk for a sponsor.
The gold scam has been going on for over a generation. Just take a look at Monex…………
"I am a fan of both FOX News, and Glen Beck"
God you people are stupid.
I keep tryin to remember what my family talked about from the 30's. Sugar & coffee
were big, but I guess about any foodstuff would have to go to the top of the list, esp-
ecially proteins. As far as your freezer full of beef, hope you can maintain a constant
flow of power. Heard my mother & aunts talk about butchering a whole beef & cann-
ing it in 1 & 1 1/2 gallon jars. Meats take forever to process, even in quarts, I think it's
an hour. Mother Earth News, here we come <sarc>. I remember seeing some of it
on shelves in the basement of one of my aunts homes. Didn't look very appetizing,
reminded me of things I saw in science lab in HS. Although there's nothing like hunger
to overcome our persnickety-ness.
I inherited gold. It was originally bought in the late 80's knowing that the price could go way down but could be a good way of buying yourself out of a situation if the "world went crazy". That's basically what I think of it now.
I remember the 80's when gold was around $2000.00 per ounce in today's dollars. BAD time to buy.
I suppose your heros are Al Gore, Keith Olbermann and MSNBC, which are owned by GE and is getting several sweetheart government deals from the current administration for furthering the healthcare and green jobs cause. Personally, I am a fan of the free market, and the smart money says: "You, Anon are a dumba$$".
The flaw in your logic is that if we are in a catastrophic situation, you would have to find someone stupid enough to part with their food for some of your worthless gold. Cash would be worthless as well, but I would rather use my cash now to buy food rather than gold.
Look, you sawed off little mother-jammer, about the only thing I could say to you that you would savvy, is: RUN FOREST, RUN!
Since there is no ignore button here that I can use to make you invisible, just know this will be my last post to you, ever. So go ahead and continue to post to me and yap away. I'm sure you'll continue to want to get the last word in, just like my ex-wives………..
oh c'mon mac – you can't contest the superiority complex of the indoctrinated – it's the whole of their value system :~}
i cant afford to invest in gold, so i invest in something more practical, Copper,brass and lead.
The theory is based in simple economics. There is a set amount of gold, but dollars can be freely produced. So, if we remain in a stable state, the value of gold necessarily goes up when the value of the dollar goes down. The flaw in that logic is twofold: gold itself is a commodity that is consummable in several industries including jewelry, electronics and medical supplies and as such the value will fluctuate with demand. The second is the basic assumption that the economy will remain stable, if hyper-inflation happens, the value of gold will be meaningless when compared with food. The theory of gold being a stable commodity is ages old and has nothing to do with Glenn Beck. But if you pay me a few thousand bucks, I'd make a commercial too. The question is who will be dumb enough to believe the commercials, and frankly I am surprised you are not a gold bug Anon as your level of intelligence on everything else you write suggests you should be.
Good point MV.
Lodtom – can you explain why Israel can't do anything without out approval? I did not think it was that close.
I am gratified you liked my article. Thanks!
Most of the ads on TV are to buy gold not sell it.
have a few bucks I could invest in gold – but there are problems that go with it, as I see it. I may be wrong, so feel free to correct any errors.
One – I want something I can hold in my hands. I don't want more of my wealth in a bank or vault somewhere under another persons control. If the caca hits the revolving airfoil – what's to stop the government from closing up all of these storage vaults? Then you have nothing again. I have the will and the means to safeguard my own money – I don't want it stashed away someplace I can't get to.
Two – supposing it does hit the fan, and even if you have your own gold. What do you do with it? You can't buy gas with it, or food, or other supplies? How do you get change for a $1000 Krugerand at a gas station or market?
Buy some goldschlager, it's a schnapps with gold flakes in it.
FDR confiscated the peoples gold in 1933 i believe. He also made it illegal for U.S. citizens to own gold, however foreign countries could still redeem dollars for gold. Nixon, one of the worst presidents in our history, permanently severed the dollar from gold in 1971 famously claiming "we're all Keynesians now". He also instituted harsh wage and price controls bringing us to near complete economic fascism at the time.
If you want to see how the break from gold has screwed up the economy since 1971 go look at the historical graphs at:
http://mises.org/markets.asp#monetary
http://mises.org/markets.asp#federal
http://mises.org/markets.asp#macro
http://mises.org/markets.asp#interest
reactionaries, you are so right about folks in the cities. The gvt will do all they can to funnel
foodstuffs & fuel to the cities, because of the risk of rioting, & civil unrest. In the city you will
be more likely to have products available to you, if you dare risk going out of your neighbor-
hood to find them. If food & fuel become the major focus of daily life, rather than precious
work, we will pine for the days when our food consumed less than 10% of our income. My
wish is to see no ones children hungry, for I realize being in the minority as I am, there will
be someone who will come to take my larder. If not Uncle Sam, who may wish to redistribute
the fruits of my labor, it will be those who are desperate to save their families from hunger.
The US Government policy of cheap food for America has long been recognized, for a full
belly makes for a docile populace. The reason farmers have received subsidies for 80 yrs
is clearly an admission of our gov that it routinely manipulates markets to maintain more
stable & somewhat lower prices than the truly FREE market would support. Oversupply by
Americas farmers is desirable in the eyes of Congress.
I remember when in the late 1980's to early 90's the price of gold was about $900 and my ex and I had a lot invested in that shiny stuff. Then the bottom dropped out and you couldn't sell gold shares if you wanted to on the open market for $250 or even $220. It was a disastrous time when panic selling took over. There is way too much promotion of it right now and yes Cowboy, the Prince is smiling. I don't trust all this hype.
Yes, Fed money-printing (fiat money) is hidden taxation. It took me awhile to get that, but it's true. The fact that the dollar has lost about 97% of it's purchasing power since the Fed began working its magic is telling.
Politicians often try to kill two birds with one stone with tax policy. Raise revenue, in a way that nudges societal behavior in a way they deem beneficial. Nowadays, "they" are getting carried away with doing this, and "they" are out-of-touch, devoid of common sense and corrupt.
Funny how history repeats itself. The founders had all kinds of warnings about dangers of out-of-control bankers, taxation and fiat money leading to ruin. Going back even farther in history, here's a timely quote ….from 55 BC:
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." … Cicero – 55 BC
Glenn says he is prepared to lose everything, & start over, but his admitted hoarding of
foreign gold coins seems to me somewhat hypocritical
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
& you call yourself 'the barbarian', I think NOT, for no barbarian ever spoke so
eloquently of our task.
thx mac, I continue to hammer it, food & fuel, food & fuel.
my unqualified 2cents – if you are hedging against inflation, the norm of dollar-cost averaging gold in the right purportion of your portfolio is probably the safest method. to be done with a very long-term intent of course.
if you're building security for an economic collapse, fertile land with a water source cannot be matched in primary importance. — and has the added benefit of performing well enough in 'normal' economic times to not have any substantial risk.
If you put the dollar on a gold standard and peg the amount of money in circulation to how much gold we happen to have, what happens if population grows (as it has) or the level of economic activity increases (as it has), both have about doubled since we went off the gold stardard.
What dowa that mean about prices? With only so many dollars in circulation, there will have to be more purchases made each day to feed the new mouths, to buy the second auto, etc.,
Prices would have to fall drastically. Would business build new factories, hire new workers, design new products for a market where the price they can get is falling drastically? Think about it.
Agree J-Bird, although this inflation will not allow our economy to recover, I believe. Even the
R's will be unable to 'right' this economy quickly enough to satisfy the fickle populace, so IMO
we will bounce from party to party, & financial policy to financial policy, like a mischievous child
in an overfilled bathtub, sloshing precariously until the drain is opened. I pray that I'm wrong.
LMAO,,,,,,,,,,dan, from one farmer to another. Looking forward to investing all those huge profits
from last years crop in another?? <sarc> Good Luck !
When gold was backing our dollar, it had two values. The Dollar value as established by the U.S. Treasury. Then, the Commodity. When the commodity value increased above the Permanent US Dollar value foreigners were coming in to buy our gold from the US Treasury…Pres. Nixon had to close the window of that Dept.
Our Dollar is tied to the Oil Commodity I think, the cost of energy.
I believe all of the "gold hawking" is being done for the benefit of The One World Govt Bankers. They want a One World Currency.
There's a latter day prophecy saying that the people(s) will be throwing their gold and silver into the streets. There's several ways to interpret, ok.
there it is again.. Cicero. Over the past few days I have seen him spoke of many more times than is usual. One of those articles I read spoke of a book written by Taylor Caldwell – A Pillar of Iron- that is a historical novel about Cicero. I happen to have a small collection of Taylor Caldwell's books that I haven't read which includes that book. I may should take the cosmic hint and read it I guess… :~}
Pretty much everyone agrees that the only plausible way for Israel to take out Iran's nuke facilities is with precision airstrikes. According to an article I read recently (don't remember where sorry for no sourcing it) Israeli planes fully laden, do not have the range or aerial refuling capabilities to get to Iran without using the US controlled airspace over Iraq. And since flying an unauthorized sortie over US controlled territory is not really an option for them, they need our cooperation and support.
And you did not think what was that close?
Nope. I'm still finding it in the creeks and rivers of Virginia. Who's the "crazy prospector" now? Isn't it funny though, how California banned prospecting once the price shot up to 4 digits? Wake up, America. This Administration is herding you into the economic cattle cars. Next stop…Auschwitz.
Money is the 3rd party in a two way trade, with or without gold. It is the common denominator in the exchange of goods and services. It's a storehouse for wealth, as well as a debt. Time doesn't really equal money.
T = M FALSE! Becuz: M = T is not a True Statement. Time is Money or Money is Time.
It's my opinion that we didn't have that much gold in the West Coast. Much more in Alaska. The biggest gold deposits in the entire world are in Africa, acdg to the scriptures.
The biggest problem caused by The Bankers is that they charge interest. I often wondered why this was outlawed in the Old Testament. The Borrower will lose his collateral for the loan when charged interest, ok.
Prime reason #1: No cash or currency goes into circulation for the interest portion of the debt. Only the Principal Amount goes into circulation, when the Seller receives it.
The good 'ol I.R.S. is the "smokescreen" for the FRB, which serves to "re-distribute the wealth" and cause much confusion so that we are watching them, instead of getting onto the FRB problem.
Good explanation, CL. Just so. Soon the dollar will be worth less than the paper it is made from. Did you know that, during the California gold rush, a chicken egg cost over $75.00 because gold was more available than eggs? The influx of miners resulted in a food shortage. Much of the wealth these miners sought was squandered on nothing more exotic than food. Ironic, isn't it?
That snake still rears it's ugly head every few years. We've even state ballot initia-
tives with the goal of curbing his enthusiasm for selling our h2o to the major urban
areas. When push comes to shove, he'll win due to farmers being outnumbered
in a statewide vote. I've never learned of his political affiliation, however his persis-
tence reminds me of the current Administration. Therefor coziness with sanfranan
fairly well says it all.
The diamond merchants keep a very tight on the value of their diamonds.
Kooz, can you buy "normal" seed? Our natural ones, whereby we can use the seed from the plants to grow more plants?
Another conspiracy theory that I heard, that the One Worlders are going to control the distribution of their Hybrid seeds & possibly outlaw Naural seeds from Natural Plants.
From what I understand, Pres. Nixon stopped the sale of our Gold to foreigners. The commodity value had increased more than our US Govt-Treasury established value.
As long as we are waxing philosophic, I propose the idea that no one is ever "out of debt". You may serve the devil, or you may serve the Lord…but you will serve.
Financially speaking, because any medium of exchange (currency, commodities) is based upon a mutual agreement of it's worth, no one can ever be sure that their financial position is secure.
I am heavily invested in brass and lead at this time.
I just got one real piece of gold. It is a one ounce pendant I had hand crafted back in 1993.
Not ironic, just proof that the theory that gold is an absolute and limited commodity is a false one, as macnvettes noted elsewhere.
Gold, or any other commodity, is not a panacea against inflation.
But it does make for a good marketing opportunity.
More importantly, how do you guarantee the person at the gas station or market will even take gold?
Gold is just another fiat currency. It has value because people say it does. Beyond that it is just another commodity, with some industrial, and many decorative uses. If no one wants another gold ring, or needs to replace something in their electronics . . . well, it makes a pretty paperweight.
Yes, when your hungry try putting that gold between two slices of bread. Let me know how that goes for you.
OFF TOPIC: Anyone see the cover of the Weekly Standard, just flashed it on Fox News Watch
Algore at his semi neckid best. LMAO
Gold-plated tungsten bars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKczs-7BFRI
STFU dumbass.
Peter Schiff is a fiscal conservative and economist who has been saying the government spending is out of control. All of which makes gold go up and the dollar go down. He wroete "Crash Proof" several years ago warning spending was out of control before it happened.
Schiff is/was considering running for Dodd's Senate seat! that would be a good get for the Tea party.
I am investing in expanding my garden….As cool and shiney those gold bars look, you still can not eat them.
No need to guess here, look at other economies that have collapsed and what they did. Example, the Soviet Union collapse with Eastern Europe, and some Latin countries. Rule is to not get stuck holding the collapsing currency. Watch the IMF and BIS for clues what will be considered the new Coin of Realm.
I suggest physical possession mix of some stable foreign currencies like the Swiss franc and Chinese Yuan, and gold; and fine silver dollars (smaller increments) for smaller exchanges and daily use . If possible, get a small house with a little acreage to grown your own food. Make sure it has it's own well and septic. Perhaps a foreclosure in country, to avoid possible civil unrest in the cities. If nothing happens, you will have a fine rental.
If you live in the city, make contacts now and network with like minded people in the above situation so you can share a garden with them. You can make contacts now by buying eggs and produce from local people. If nothing happens, you will have had some fun, saved money and made good friends. And if the SHTF you will have a mutual support group and and be an established customer. Not paranoid, just smart.
My grandmother grew up in the depression. She was of sturdy stock and knew what to do. There are many fine people out there thinking the same things. Why not hook up now?
FDR also declared a state of emergency, suspending our constitution in March of 1933…Hitler also became Chancellor of Germany, I see a lot of simularities….
No need to guess here, look at other economies that have collapsed and what they did. Example, the Soviet Union collapse with Eastern Europe, and some Latin countries. Rule is to not get stuck holding the collapsing currency. Watch the IMF and BIS for clues what will be considered the new Coin of Realm.
I suggest physical possession mix of some stable foreign currencies like the Swiss franc and Chinese Yuan, and gold; and fine silver dollars (smaller increments) for smaller exchanges and daily use . If possible, get a small house with a little acreage to grown your own food. Make sure it has it's own well and septic. Perhaps a foreclosure in country, to avoid possible civil unrest in the cities. If nothing happens, you will have a fine rental.
If you live in the city, make contacts now and network with like minded people in the above situation so you can share a garden with them. You can make contacts now by buying eggs and produce from local people. If nothing happens, you will have had some fun, saved money and made good friends. And if the SHTF you will have a mutual support group and and be an established customer. Not paranoid, just smart.
My grandmother grew up in the depression. She was of sturdy stock and knew what to do. There are many fine people out there thinking the same things. Why not hook up now?
I tend to agree with the sentiment that buying gold when you can't watch an hour of tv without seeing gold commercials is probably not wise.. and about water being more important and maybe soon more valuable monetarily. I noticed another interesting twist to a commercial this week. The 'survival seed pack' – enough non-genetic altered garden seeds in a sealed tube for storage has now added to their sales pitch that– 'in a severe economic failure these seeds would be more valuable than gold and hold more barter value as well.' — right in line with y'alls self sufficient point. And Cowboy's point about what self sufficient does for your self-esteem and character can't be over -stated. Even without economic failure – it's an important but now missing ingredient to the American culture.
The increase in the price of Gold is merely the measure of the dollar going down in value. Once you get that in your head, you'll know what to do. China gets it. They're trying to get away from the dollar, and so should you.
Physical Gold and silver are good because they are recognized all over the world. You can exchange them locally to others who did not think ahead for local dollar currency a little bit at a time, at the last minute, when needed for shopping. People will be fighting for your silver coinage.
The more the government dilutes the dollar by spending and printing money we don't have, the more gold is going to be worth. Right now there is no end in sight. Remember, it's not gold going up in value it's the dollar going down!!
Obama is redistributing your money while you sleep by printing money for the social programs for others. You lost 16% of your bank account last year and didn't even know it, because that's how much the dollar dropped.
How's was that for a tax increase? You see, they don't even have to take your money to redistribute it!!
.
.
I agree with you.
They don't call it the gold standard for nothing. Gold is not really going up, the dollar is going down and has a long ways to go.
.
I believe that the game of subsidizing farmers NOT to grow crops is bogus, as are ethanol kickbacks. To the good, the ever increasing amount of deer finding their way into the city may be coming in handy in the future. Take care of your own first, and help your neighbor if you can. That's just the way we do it here.
Lead is the New Gold
Great explanation of hidden taxation through money-printing.
Yes, Very funny!
Great suggestions. Wise to prepare for the worst. If it doesn't happen, no great loss. But odds are SHTF. Watch developments in Greece and Europe for hints of what may be coming. Not pretty when reality rears its ugly head and people infected with entitlement mentality have to do without.
[...] See the original post here: » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
Gold is actually used in almost every electronic appliance in your house, even if in minute amounts.Gold also has many industrial and commercial uses, especially in manufacturing, and as stated before, in electronics.
Of course you're correct in assuming for the most part Gold is used as jewelry, etc., because of its allure and also because it's one of the easiest to work with of all precious metals.
Hyperinflation is probably on its way, and no amount of Gold ownership in ones hands will alleviate the suffering that will come with it, unless the economy makes a full recovery. +Hanzo+
O buckshot.
Gold is a commodity with few industrial uses, (jewelry is not an industrial use). If you are going to play the precious metals game, go for silver. It is more volitable, and hence has a chance to make money.
Silver has more industrial uses. Silver at 15-17 is probably a fair price. The closer to 20, the more sterling flat ware and coins get melted. (Antique dealers will unload if the price gets high enough.) This will drive back down the price. However, when silver dips to $10-12 an ounce, consider buying.
Just a personal opinion, no investment advice intended. ^..^(____)~~~
actually reactionaries, that "subsidizing farmers NOT to grow crops" has been over for
many years. After prices peaked in the Carter Adm, the shackles were removed. Farm-
ers have the option of not planting, or planting less if they wish, but farmers are capital-
ists & when given the option will plant fence to fence, as they have been for 20 to 25 yrs
now. Some programs, such as CRP, implemented in the 80's, offered landowners annual
payments to remove from production, land that was considered highly erodible & reim-
bursed farmers for plant it back to native grasses. The small annual payments did not even
cover the cost of planting & maintaining a grass cover, as per USDA required 10 yr contract.
Much of that highly erodible land is still in grass long after the contracts with USDA have run
their 10 year course. Most are now used as summer pasture for small cow/calf operations.
Farmers do not receive "ethanol kickbacks". Venture capital companies were formed by in-
vestors, who received low interest government loans to build ethanol plants for the last few
years. When oil futures fell back from historic highs many of them were in bankruptcy only
months after opening. Many of these plants were bought for pennies on the dollar by the Big
3 international grain companies, who IMO, operate the US grain market as a monopoly.
Government subsidization for vertical integration by the aristocracy, ADM, Cargill & Con-Agri.
The Big 3 also receive direct 'export subsidies' from USDA, designed to level the playing
field for these multi-national, multi-billion dollar companies. Go Figure. I as an average
grain producer receive subsidies of less than 1% of my annual gross revenues from grain
production. The government made its move to take over the crop insurance industry over
the last 15 years, so to get catastrophic coverage, I must work within the system, otherwise
I would not participate in USDA's farm programs. As with any government program the rules
& regs are like hitting a moving target, & of late they have become increasingly invasive with
the information they require.
Yes sir mark,……..you said a mouthfull; "people infected with entitlement mentality". These
folks will roam the cities taking what they need from the weak, much as they do after any
natural disaster now days. If unsuccessful in meeting their needs they will widen their circle
to the suburbs, & then the country side. I pray we have enough to share.
I agree…but I am having trouble squeezing cans of Dinty Moore Beef Stew into my safe deposit box!
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
Erm… banned? When did that happen? Apparently a couple friends of mine are lawbreakers then. *laughs*
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
With hindsight, the early 80s were a terrible time to buy. It was a top for gold. Price of gold spiked up with inflation in the Carter years. Then Reagan and Volcker attacked inflation, causing a short-term recession, but knocking inflation down. Gold went down with it. It bottomed out somewhere around 2000 at roughly $300/oz. Now it's at $1100, the US has something like $14 TRILLION in debt, is in recession, and has Bernanke at the Fed, not Vocker. Just a guess, but it's unlikely anybody at the Fed or in Washington will take anti-inflationary measures that might steepen an already-painful recession. In other words, comparisons to the 1979 top don't apply. Odds are we still have severe inflation ahead of us, with the dollar cratering, and the price of everything else spiking. Stagflation…like the Carter years, but worse.
Gold owning was made illegal by FDR in the 1930's and not allowed again until the mid '70s (when we had abandoned the gold standard).
You are misunderstanding what happened to cause us to abandon the gold standard (which was not a true gold standard where you could redeem your paper money in gold) in 1971.
We effectively went bankrupt as a country. The Great Society and Vietnam War caused such a demand for capital to pay for them that we could not tax or borrow enough money to functionally run the government and at the same time adhere to the gold standard. We couldn't print the money and monetize the debt like we do today. So Nixon abandoned the gold standard and started printing a huge amount of money with nothing to back it for the first time in our country's history, leading to the hyperinflation of the mid-late 70's.
Then in '81 Fed Chair Paul Volcker contracted the money supply to break the inflation, leading to interest rates in the high teens and low 20's. We effectively took our medicine for the bad decisions of the 70's, but we made the mistake of not going back to the gold standard.
The same cycle is likely to play out again, except much much worse.
The people hawking the gold in the commercials are backed by entities that already have very large gold holdings. They are selling off a small portion of their holdings in hopes of creating a frenzy, inflating the value of their holdings. They won't sell off until it reaches its peak value. That doesn't mean, however, that gold is a bad investment. If you had invested in gold in 2001 you could sell it for triple what you paid for it. It all depends on what you think will happen in the future.
The republicans could regain power and dramatically reduce spending, stabilizing the currency. the economy could recover, and all that extra cash pumped into the economy the last couple years could lead to hyperinflation, and gold could hit 3 or 4 thousand an ounce. Then the fed could do what volcker did in the early 80's and contract the money supply, and gold would fall precipitously (though likely not below where it is now). This is exactly what those hawking gold on tv are counting on. Will the regular joe be able to sell off his gold at the right time and get good value? probably not. But the big-timers will.
The alternative is that the socialists will maintain power and break the dollar, ushering in a global currency.
This is the chief aim of soros and "global socialists" like Obama and Pelosi. In this scenario dollars will become worthless and having traded them for gold will have been a very good decision.
Gold (and hard currency) is the natural enemy of the "one world currency" globalists.
Wealth redistribution by inflation is their chief path to power, and their chief method of control over the people.
"Hard money" limits their reach.
The Chinese Yuan may be stable, but those who control it will never allow it's value to increase substantially.
The key will be who collapses first. It looks like europe will fall first, greece is almost there, and if they bailout greece the rest of europe will fall. This could push us into stabilizing the dollar.
Reparations !
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
Silver is also real money, and is in high demand in electronics and health, and is still affordable.
That was an idea from a book one of o's czars wrote in the 70's, of course he was just kidding.
I know where I live I could get "normal" seed, but it is a rural area.
The problem would be feeding the masses.
The people in the cities will be the ones who will be the "lab rat's"
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the head of the International Monetary Fund, suggested Friday the organization might one day be called on to provide countries with a global reserve currency that would serve as an alternative to the U.S. dollar.
"That day has not yet come, but I think it is intellectually healthy to explore these kinds of ideas now," he said in a speech on the future mandate of the 186-nation Washington-based lending organization.
Strauss-Kahn said such an asset could be similar to but distinctly different from the IMF's special drawing rights, or SDRs, the accounting unit that countries use to hold funds within the IMF. It is based on a basket of major currencies.
He said having other alternatives to the dollar "would limit the extent to which the international monetary system as a whole depends on the policies and conditions of a single, albeit dominant, country."
Strauss-Kahn, a former finance minister of France, said that during the recent global financial crisis, the dollar "played its role as a safe haven" asset, and the current international monetary system demonstrated resilience.
"The challenge ahead is to find ways to limit the tension arising from the high demand for precautionary reserves on the one hand and the narrow supply of reserves on the other," he said.
Several countries, including China and Russia, have called for an alternative to the dollar as a reserve currency and have suggested using the IMF's internal accounting unit.
Strauss-Kahn said the IMF also needs to do a better job of tracing how risk percolates through the global economy.
"Here it will be essential to improve our ability to monitor several dozen large complex financial institutions that make up the `plumbing' through which global capital flows," he said, while leaving national regulators the job of monitoring the solvency of individual institutions.
Just look to the Jimmy Carter years for a lesson to reflect upon. Commodities all of all sorts is were you needed to be to protect your money. If the prices are going up do to bad monetary polices like we know is happening now, that is were you want to protect yourself, and your worth, and any monies you do have.
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
fractional reserve banking.
for every dollar of deposits, banks can lend out at 10:1, minus minimum holding requirements. That interest you're paying is on money that the bank just created out of thin air. too bad the bible didn't trash that practice as well.
[...] » Saturday Open Thread: Gold Edition – Big Government [...]
If you had actually listened to Beck, instead of reading Obama talking points, he states that gold is NOT for everyone. He states if gold is out of reach, you need to store at least one year of food, clothing, medicine, and other supplies. This statement is made in EVERY Beck narrated gold commercial. Try to attack reality and demonstrate what a fool you really are.
when is the best time to change euro to dollar? I have a good amount in a bank at Europe and I want to change it to dollars to finance my studies at USA. Any suggestions? Is the dollar going to fall down ?
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