Sunday Open Thread: Tet Edition
by PubliusToday, in 1968, the Viet Cong launched what came to be known as the Tet Offensive. It was a military disaster for the Viet Cong, but a smashing PR victory.
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It may have been a military disaster for the VC, but the NVA didn't do quite as bad. Overall, they achieved their objective in showing their troops and the world that they could coordinate large scale operations over hundreds of square miles with perfect timing. It was a huge morale boost for the Communists, even though they took heavy casualties.
Looking back, we let the Chinese intimidate us in Korea and in Vietnam, and now they're doing it to us again. MacArthur was right…we should have nuked them when we had the chance.
The PR victory was solely due to our own media's portrayal of the offensive as a VC and NVA victory. The units sent against the Marines at Hue were decimated to the point of ineffectiveness. A couple more victories like that, and the NVA would no longer have been effective.
I have never forgiven our media for their treasonous behavior. Sadly, they have never repented, but continue to pursue the same old tired left-wing propaganda. At some point, the American people will have had enough, and a bloody broom will sweep out the trash.
I got to watch the fun from Chu Lai. That was 'exciting'.
The Press have been treasonous for a long, long, time.
With a good newscrew and a Jane Fonda, what more could Uncle Ho ask for?
Fuck Walter Cronkite.
And fuck the money that supported his lies.
(Sorry to cuss on a Sunday.)
WoW.
I'd tend to have to agree with you.
Is it just me, but anyone who lived then, and is still living now, isn't it interesting to see how our perspectives have changed? It is like the blinders have come off. Old Walter is no longer the "Most Trusted Man in America". Today we all see, and know him for what he was, a "propaganda tool", for whatever any administration wanted him to sell.
Good Lord! As a people, we were so gullible and naive.
In lock step with the left leaning media, the politicians often left our guys fighting with one (sometimes both) hand tied behind their backs. If they are willing to put our guys at risk, they could at least let the generals do their jobs with the only goal being to win. It has been a long time since our military has been able to fight at a level equal to their ability.
"…and that's the way it was ~"
NOT HARDLY, you calm, articulate S.O.B.!
CM Sackett
'Were'?
I don't believe it's getting better, it's getting worse.
Yes.
We couldn't do it then, and we sure can't do it now.
Reuters: Ardennes Forest, December 1944:
After a long series of reports citing the success of Allied efforts to defeat the Nazi Army and Air Forces, the Nazis staged a massive assault on a bulge in Allied lines and now threaten to capture the Belgian port of Antwerp, now being cleared of debris for use as an Allied supply depot.
Answering angry questions from skeptical press representatives, a shaken General Eisenhower attempted to explain that while this surprise attack may have achieved initial success, and gives the Nazi armies the appearance of resilience, it is just a last gasp.
News agency reporters present deluged the off-balance Eisenhower with demands that he give the real facts about the true strength of the Nazis, displaying an obvious unwillingness to believe his remarks.
Meanwhile, worldwide protests erupted demanding that Allied forces cease bombing the peace-loving peoples of Germany, withdraw from Germany's borders, and stand down this illegal war of aggression.
(I'm sure glad for our sakes that the press then was responsible enough to avoid undermining our forces' chances to defeat the Nazis. Unfortunately, following Tet and the annihilation of the VC that forced Ho Chi Minh and his minions to start pouring NVA regulars into the south, our press chose to jump to preconceived conclusions. Thanks again, Walter Cronkite, for nothing.)
Yes, we're living in an e.e.cummings poem, shouting at the younger generation to THINK for themselves. All the 60s radicals thought they had the stone-cold truth from Uncle Walter and the funny thing is, we must assume that their ongoing blindness is willful at this point.
Speaking of MacArthur, I know that JFK had talked with Douglas MacArthur before going to Dallas for the fateful day. I'm pretty sure that JFK would have never done what LBJ ended up doing in Viet Nam!
Since Walter Crooklie every media type has tried to be the next leading lier, even Harry Reid tried with his lie on the senate floor " The Iraq war is lost" .. The only solace I can hope for is that old Walter is in hell hearing the screams of the millions killed after we left and that it will never end..
We didn't have the internet then, either! That's why NOW, we get BOTH sides of the story…
I'm pretty sure that it was a Marxist agenda that Walter was going on in his Newscasts back then too! As Kruschev said in 1962, we're going to get into Hollywood, the media, and press and destroy you without firing a shot!
PS: However, I'm not saying that our government was still not necessarily behind it. That all depends upon just what the "New World Order" think-tank was thinking at the time?
I think a lot of our ignorance of what was really going on with the media and politicians was that many of us only had access to two or three channels (for my family NBC and CBS most of the time and ABC sometimes) and this was our main source of information. I never recall hearing any alternative views that reputed what was being sold to us as truth. I reached my teens in the mid 60's.
I also think that by this time, the progressive movement in public education was becoming firmly entrenched. Unfortunately, today progressive ideas permeate public schools and it will take many years of diligence and common sense to correct these horrible mistakes.
No, they don't have memories quite that long. They're all vying to be the next Woodward and Bernstein. Well, in O'Keefe's particular case they are.
It used to be, "if it bleeds, it leads." Now it's "what's in it for our newscorp conglomerate?" They're all so in bed together that they can't report on corruption because it leads back to their masters every time.
Joan, I'm not a fan of the F-Bomb. But I honestly cannot think of a better way to express the sentiment you've shared with us.
Are you a fan of e. e. cummings, BTW? There are few works of art, be they graphic, written, or musical, that can bring me to tears. Some of his love poems shake me to the core. They're like tidal waves.
Well, a well-reasoned and apt "Damnation!" no longer has the rousing, visceral effect needed for the written word. Besides, in my art I try to be a minimalist and I believe that when discussing well-known facts, it's best to invoke the succinct application for the contrast it provides.
OT: e.e.cummings has been a favorite since 7th grade. But then, I was born with an old soul. For love poems, perhaps none better . . . except for Neruda's sensual and plaintive thrall to the powers of the beloved. Rowrrr!
Oddly enough, those of us who lived, and remember "back in the day", remember that a remote control, was whatever sibling was closest to the TV set. Where I come from, if the old man wanted to fine tune the TV reception, that meant sending someone out to the yard, and twisting the TV antennae on the pole in the yard.
I studied in Germany during the early 1970's and recall meeting some people who still believed the Nazi propaganda. Fortunately, I was befriended by a German family and invited into their home many times. At some point, I asked the father, who had been forced into the army during WWII, his take on things. He told me that first, he had no desire to be part of the war and that he would have never been considered as a potential officer because of a minute amount of Jewish blood from his ancestry. He told me the best thing was when he was captured due to their vehicle breaking down in Africa and shipped off to a family farm in England. He told me this experience changed his life because he was able to have food three times a day and he learned to speak some English. He and his family later became US citizens and were as patriotic towards America as anyone I had ever met.
Imagine a world in which Truman had cut MacArthur loose: There would be no North Korea, Vietnam wouldn't have happened, and we wouldn't be dealing with a communist China.
Give war a chance!
IMAGINE THAT!
Hindsight is 20/20.
Unfortunately for most liberals, it is 20/10.
Their views are skewed.
Bin Laden easily turned the pathetic global warming arguments of the dumbacrats and used them agaist America, democrats suck
Yes, those were days of simple living when a young man was expected to attend school, play a few sports or work after school, study, do chores, eat supper, help clean up and maybe watch a little tv or, more often, read. Of course, after the testosterone kicked in, life became exponentially more complicated and fun at the same time.
To get ABC on the tv, I was the antennae man- unfortunately, ours was mounted to the chimney on the roof. I would get out the ladder, and climb up the roof and my younger sister would stand in the door way yelling instructions from Dad. Our tv was so old, the channel knob broke, so we had a pair of vice grips handy at all times.
Good Lord, it sounds like you just described the house where I grew up! I always wondered if that was why my sister became a pole dancer………
At least pole dancing is an honored profession. My dear sister (love her, unconditionally) went on to complete a double major undergraduate degree, a masters degree and became a life long Democrat. I have forgiven her, but never forgotten.
If you don,t learn from your mistakes you are destined to repeat them…unfortunately most people today could not find vietnam on a map much less know what the tet offensive was..thanks to our whitewashed history books…
I hope you know I was being facetious about my sister. if she saw that attempt at humor, she'd laugh though.
On a serious note, I'd forgive my sister if she had been a pole dancer. I'm not sure how I'd feel if she was a democrat………
If a Walter Cronkite had stood up during the Bulge and spewed, he or she would find themselves in the brink!
my father was at Chu Lai 1965-1966….
All tongue in cheek, CL. My sister and I have agreed to disagree and deep in her heart, she knows I am right… in my opinion.
Glenn Beck had a great program last night about the Progressives from 1900-1930. Their goal for the press was to "teach" rather than "report" and CBS was there at the beginning of spreading propaganda rather than find the truth and report it. This is today's mainstream media. Read up on the Progressives, Hillary claimed to be a "modern progressive." The Progressives are anti-Constitution, anti freedom, and believe the people are ignorant dolts who must be led by the elites! Rise up and let the voice of the people be heard. Deluge the emails of CBS, NBC, ABC, etc., and demand fair and balanced reporting. Enough of these media tyrants with smiling faces who speak with forked tongues!
And with the modern progressives' obsession with maintaining a permanent underclass via welfare and Medicaid, coupled with strategic placement of abortitoriums in urban centers, it appears the progressive tradition of eugenics is still being honored. Keep enough of 'em around to keep the "right" people in office, but not many more.
…..While their Viewing Audience is tanking. We are opening up their "Lie Circuits",, and inter-locking our Truth Circuits. Lies cost much money to maintain. Truth is generally free.
We've got a "cuff" on them and one of their "eyes" blindfolded, while they're starting to spin around like a wobbling top.. Maybe they'll have to sell a station….We pool our moneys and buy it…LOL
Who knows what James has up his sleeve? Maybe he will able to sue the MNN's!
When he said that the war was unwinnable, that was the day that I saw through his bias and saw that the media was an ally – usually unwitting, but sometimes enthusiastic, of the North Vietnamese and of Communism. And I've since viewed them with pessimism, disbelief and contempt, seeing through to their motives and agendas with every story they've reported. Uncle Walter should burn in hell, listening to the screams of the millions he condemned to death when the Communists took over in that area of the world, as well as the curses of the thousands of our own good men that were killed because of his aiding and abetting the enemy. Thank God for Fox News, although even that's just a good start.
20/20 or 20/10 ? Remember they have tunnel vision only, no peripheral vision and actually No Rear View Mirror (history study(s)…LOL
Thank you all. A great read on Sunday morning. JCH, LT, USN, 1110, 77-85
Finally!
Americans are ready to heed the Democrats cry:
MAKE ME LESS FREE
http://naturalfake.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/make-...
It’s hard to look back at “Tet,” and not think of Walter Cronkite, Morley Schaffer, Dan Rather, and the openly anti-American press that we’ve suffered through for forty plus years.
For me finally, and totally losing faith in the press, was 1980 when Cronkite commented about that disaster “Carter” was a smarter man than Reagan, and began open warfare against the great Ronald Reagan.
As we begin to convert this country closer to it’s founding, the press needs to go…as well!
I was a mere midge of a girl when Cronkite was lying to me. As a young mom, I learned first-hand of the media manipulation when interviewed for a newspaper article. I learned further when a good friend (who happened into local politics) was maligned–not by his opponents– by the local media.
Might as well live in Deadwood. Stand it like a man. And give some back.
You are right Stan.
Then come forward a bit. Remember Gunga Dan Rather and the way he disrespected George Bush Sr? The looney left is indeed afflicted with a mental disorder. I don't know if it comes from eating all that quiche at those fancy Washington soirees, or if it's from drinking bad water, but they are neurotic mental cases for sure.
The bible-view, ok: Truman pushed the Chinese back to their God-Given Territory and stopped. He pushed them back to where they belong. Same for McArthur & Patton who pushed the enemies back to their God-Given Land.
IF Truman was surrounded by Bible Thumpers like Pres Washington was, the decision was biblically correct, ok.
The idea would be to "Save Your Ammo" for the big Offensive on the Horizon. This would happen at some time after the "Jews" re-establish their homeland for the 3rd time…the Last Time incidently.
That's alright, Joan. I never liked the little bastard either.
Lovingly yours,
God
Part of the problem is the upper echelon of the
military,( not the troops with their feet on the ground),
are way too political and go along instead of speaking
up and doing what's right for the bravest of the brave.
Come forward even further to little Christy Mathews, in a discussion with another American traitor Marxist Senator, Bernie Sanders extolling the virtues of Saul Alinsky, he used to paraphrase, “a hero of ours Saul Alinsky,” just wow! The press is utterly, and completely corrupted, and sink daily into irrelevance. “We the People” need to finish them off! You know maybe it is the quiche?
Thanks for your service CT!
I never liked Cronkite or Rather…We always had Huntley &
Brinkley on…I always thought they were much fairer…
Joan,
I'm not a fan of the word either. I don't think I've ever used it here. But in this particular instance,
Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all!
Unlike Macarthur who tried to use nuclear weapons, Richard the Lion heart didn’t use the great military weapon of the time (Siege Towers) in later battles after successfully using them earlier in his lifetime. He proved to be pretty incapable of success the rest of his life based on most accounts.
PS: Joan,
see what you started? Now you've got me saying it!
Seeing through the Orwellian nonsense gets easier and easier for me – maybe because I stopped drinking fluoridated water (no joke, you should try it.)
Let's see, the Chinese intimidate……."us" in Korean and Vietnam? What was "us" doing in Korea and Vietnam in the first place! When China starts intimidating "us" where we actually belong in the US, the let me know. Oh, that's right, that is right around the corner. Why? Because we bankrupted ourselves with idiotic foreign wars first making Europe safe for communism then claiming to oppose it in Asia. Also, allowing the "Free Trade" lunatic traitors control our trade policy so that most of our wealth has now exported and we are down to selling our infrastructure to China and Spain and anyone else. Such is the price of "interventionism" and "Free Trade." Read "None Dare Call it Treason" some time. This was all a game of rope-a-dope(the US) by the global elites. Now you get to live through the loss of your country. Better wake up.
Check the video on JFK assassination and who was involved.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-43150240...
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It's a shame the U.S. government forced many to go to Vietnam when no enemy presented a clear and present danger to the United States. The red scare is over so now we have created a new one to call rise for perpetual war mongering.
It's obvious that if the United States faced a real threat, "their would be an american waiting with a gun behind every blade of grass" voluntarily.
More so than you think. Most adopt an incorrect premise which leads them to a false conclusion. The premise is one that citizens, especially of this era, were programmed to accept and was actually quite contrary to the legacy of the Founding Fathers. The believe the government was good. How's that square with the Founders, eh? But our government was hijacked by the international bankers which most can not comprehend but the most tangible symptom of this is the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned about (why won't you people listen STILL?). The point of the war was war. Winning the war was CONTRARY to the goal. Without knowing that, nothing else makes sense! Once you know it, it all falls in to place. Everyone KNEW it viscerally but this false premise wouldn't allow them to accept it. Everyone "knew" they weren't fighting to win but assigned it to anything other than the simplest explanation (Occams Razor) that the goal wasn't to win.
Cronkite, under Operation Mockingbird, was probably a tool of the CIA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbir...
Now, you see the rabbit hole.
So much has change since then and yet so much stays the same.
Gibbs on CNN trying to throw the case?KSM will be executed for the crimes he committed" ( Video)
http://tinyurl.com/ykhfw8k
In ’68 at the Miami Republican convention, I was a kid and got a behind the scenes look at the convention prep, and saw Huntley, rehearsing in a sound booth, and left with a beach towel that said Huntley / Brinkley Miami ’68, memories.
young men died the war machine got rich and politicians got paid off….and the world goes round and round…..its your turn GRANDSON and i'm so sorry i did not make a difference.
Sorry, Johnny. The 'red scare' is not over. Just take a close look at the inhabitants of the White House and State Department.
As for '…no enemy presented…danger to the United States…" Don't be naive. The NVA were proxies of the Chinese and Russians. Those who were tortured and murdered in Cambodia–if they could speak– would agree that the 'Domino Theory' had tangible consequences.
Don't demean those of us who served.
Sorry, the American people must still be as gullible and naive. A majority voted for zer0 and haven't yet made a credible effort to impeach him
"Somewhere i have never traveled…"
For the modern world, this rivals Willie Shakespeare.
You must not have been alive then, Johnny. I was IN Vietnam during Tet serving as a helicopter pilot/area intelligence specialist. I know what was going on (it was also my 2nd tour of duty–my first was in 1965.) Cronkite's comments on what a "victory" Tet was for the communists were nothing short of treasonous and were INTENTIONALLY designed to (1) demoralize the troops and (2) convince the American public of the "futility" of the war so they'd force the government to eventually withdraw. It worked on BOTH counts and to demonstrate how weak we'd become, Cronkite was NOT tried for treason…then or afterwards.
I watched the "fun" as well from Chu Lai.
Vice grips at our house too!
You morons who think the war was waged to enrich some fat-cats seem to forget that the Democrats were demonizing fat-cats all over the place at that time.
Secondly, in 1965, I was in a village shortly after the VC had been through on one of its "recruitment" visits. The mayor had counseled his young men against going with them, so they tied him to a pole, raped and killed his daughter in front of him, cut the head off of his son-in-law, raped and murdered his 55-year-old wife by beating her with a mosquito net t-rod 'til they'd broken all her ribs, her collar bones, her arms and her skull. Then, they used their bayonets and played "catch" with his 6-month-old grandson!
A few days later, I was in Saigon at the Rainbow Bar having a drink. The guy sitting next to me had on a pair of military fatigues with a "UPI" patch on the shoulder. Recognizing him as a "reporter" I told him the story and asked why the American people weren't being told what sort of animals we were facing there. His reply was, "Oh, that sort of thing goes on all the time here. It's only "news" if it's a RARE occurrance!"
I'm thinking ol' Walt would have been fragged.
How true! And, it's the same group of left-wing morons that sacrificed a good and noble bunch of people in order to aid and abet the communists in their desire to take over the rice bowl of Asia.
Didn't Jefferson say something like "A man who reads nothing at all is better educated than a man who only reads newspapers."
Yes. Some were disemboweled by the VC because they refused to obey.
I was there '67-68 and back in '70. I got involved in city and street fighting–quite an experience. Lyndon (remember he was a Democrat?) screwed things up so royally it was reminiscent of the way we are told that HItler did. Kissinger, later, was almost directly, personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of South Vietnamese with his Paris 'treaty.'
Then, the *Democrat* congress pulled funding when the S. Vietnamese were beginning to be able to fight on their own.
Fast forward to the 'boat people' and remember how callous the Democrat congress were about the people they'd caused to be refugees.
Shame on shame, on shame to those who have no shame. Lice!
I try to watch his program every day so I learn something. "Screaming at the media, well I don't think that will work. Their stations are "tanking"…The number of viewers for GB's program is more than the others combined.
Just get the word out to your friends to watch Glenn Beck Hannity and so on…."Bug" your schools to give your kids, our kids a Copy of their Bill of Rights, State & Federal Constitutions, Declaration of IIndependence…Demand It! "The Squeaky Wheel Gets the Most Grease"
Join: http://www.AmericansforProsperity.com See what's going Nat'ly & in your State
Keep in mind please, that the Progressive Movement started in the early 1900's, and hi-jacked both parties, just to help you to keep "your mind right"., ok.
I 1st got involved late last summer, and much to learn myself. That's why I like this site.
Their "coordination" wasn't so hot, L4S. WE knew it was coming and had all the firing points and all the bunkers manned with plenty of ammo–waiting for it to kick off. The first shots in the Long Binh area were fired at about 2:30AM. I was checking the troops on the east perimeter, making sure that everyone knew the password and countersign and was staying alert when the first 20 rockets came in. The first one landed about 25' behind me as I heard it coming and was diving into one of our firing points. We received another 7 rounds and they stopped. Seems Puff was up and SAW the launching point and opened up on it with their minigun, preemption the rest of 'em. (We later found out we were supposed to get 125 rounds on the east perimeter, during which a battalion of VC who had infiltrated the village outside our compound were supposed to cross the MSR, kill as many of us as possible, blow up our helicopters and proceed to the ammo dump and blow IT up. They waited on the other 98 rounds and got creamed when they realized they weren't coming.
Yes, the Democrats, who started the whole thing to begin with, by the way, betrayed our allies in the South and are responsible for the millions who subsequently were killed or sent to "re-education camps" where they were further brutalized…both in Vietnam and Cambodia. You'll NEVER get them to admit it, though. To them, these SE Asians were merely pawns in their thirst to show how they can sabotage any war effort we might engage in.
That's alright, Joan. I never liked the little bastard either.
Lovingly yours,
God
Semper Fi
Amigo,
On occasion, you make very valid points.
"Now, you see the rabbit hole."
Hell sonny, for a good portion of my life, I've been in the rabbit hole. Sometimes, if you go deep enough you'll find the rabbit. Or a badger, or a mouse. Sometimes even a cougar. Go deep enough and you might even find a man, or a demon. But it'll always prove interesting, if one has the testicular fortitude to forge ahead.
I have a favorite quote:
" There is no hunting, like the hunting of armed and dangerous men. Once one has done it, and found out they might like it, they will find that nothing else in life is quite the same ever again."
I was there at Tet and got hit on Feb 3. Also I agree with Pappadave, before Tet we responded to a VC hit in Binh Phouc, Mekong Delta, where the VC just shot into a house since the father was a Police Officer. The shots killed him, his wife that was pregnant, and wounded a 9 month old boy. I saw a lot of this and I felt we were right to be there. Also I was with the units that moved into Cholon and saw what the "Liberating NVA" did to the civilian population. Well as you know 3 NVA divisions were destroyed in Saigon and they lost. After being medavaced back to the states I was surprised by the media stories of how we lost. Well we did not lose–we could have won and a lot of VN would not have been killed later after we left.
I have not experienced any of the horror I have read above, but I know the picture above will be "us" if we don;t take this country back form the commie administration!
Thanks for you guys service!
Moi? I'm just a wee little French girl on a mission. . .
I'm a fan of all words. The eff-bomb can be soooo much fun in the correct format. My Cousin Vinny cured me of my chary disregard for the word. I LMAO at that.
I didn't demean anyone that served during Vietnam in my comments.
I didn't comment on Cronkite.
I can remember thinking back in 68–if they're going to have a war, win it. The same goes for now.
IIRC, General Giap thought it a huge disaster and estimated that it would take about three years to rebuild the NVA into an operational force. Since their next big offensive was about four years later (the Easter Invasion) that seems to be pretty much correct.
The "Monroe Doctrine" or any other doctrine (ie: the Bush Doctrine) is nothing more than a policy position. It does not, nor ever did it have the weight of Law or Treaty. Policies change. Get over it. Idiot.
Credible MSM news is secondary. Advertising revenue is king. Gullible audience is the target.
There has never been any recognition of the mass graves of civilians the Marines found in Hue once the NVA were defeated.
Semper Fi….thank you Devil Dog.