» Monday Open Thread: Hamilton Edition

Caddywompass - January 11th, 2010 at 11:12 am

Has anyone been listening to all the "quotes" coming out of the new book "Game Change"? I am wondering since they have "dirt" on everyone……where is the "dirt" on BO?

chopper - January 11th, 2010 at 11:20 am

Happy Birthday Mr Ten-spot.

The dirt's coming, wait until celebrity boys' trial starts……………………..If it does.

And if I was ex-Illinois Gov. Rod Blagovich, I'd be watching my back because "that guy" will have him sleeping with the fishes. The Chicago outfit will neutralize him.

chopper - January 11th, 2010 at 11:25 am

Everywhere.

Gary__K - January 11th, 2010 at 11:32 am

I am afraid you are right about the possibility of Blagovich being neuturalized. That's the Chicago way.

Did you see the news story where Blagovich says he is blacker than NO_Bama? that will get him some points…

@BenInNy - January 11th, 2010 at 11:51 am

I bet Blago has TONS of dirt, too bad he's not more credible at the moment.

@BenInNy - January 11th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

I'm not so sure about Hamilton:
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed, and in the next place, oblige it to control itself."

He was for a rather strong central government, oh, and debt:
"A national debt, if it is not excessive, will be to us a national blessing. "

Judging by the next quote, he may have even been the nation's 1st progressive:
"Why has government been instituted at all? Because the passions of man will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice without constraint. "

But then again, there are other quotes that seem to contradict these. In any case, happy birthday old man

RedWhiteAndJew - January 11th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

On the point…

http://cheezburger.com/View.aspx?aid=2668788736

Good morning, all.

chopper - January 11th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

Had I known that public safety employees in California can retire at 50 and receive 90 percent of the final year's pay for life, I'd have been out there with my guns 20 years ago.

And they wonder why they're broke.

RedWhiteAndJew - January 11th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

The sentiments expressed in the above quotes might explain the recent documentary on Hamilton by PBS. It was heavy on the proto-socialist quotes, too. They also had an actor portraying Thomas Jefferson as a perfumed dandy, speaking quotes in opposition to Hamilton's "forward-thinking creation of the industrial giant we are today."

It was very jingoistic.

Foamy7 - January 11th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

Happy Birthday to the founder of the Bank of New York, the New York Post, and a man that recognized he could not run for President, as he was born outside of the United States! Interestingly, my college history professor noted that he would have been an excellent choice to run had he been eligible…

Caddywompass - January 11th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

I can't imagine a scenario where BO's camp would allow any "dirt" to hit the fan on him. They have been successful at keeping so much secret for so long………

@BenInNy - January 11th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

Oh man, its for exactly that sort of reason I rarely find myself watching PBS. Rarely, meaning: I don't even remember where it is, channel number-wise.

chopper - January 11th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

The biggest single prize in the porkulus package was ONE BILLION DOLLARS…. $1,000,000,000, for the "FutureGen near-zero emissions clean coal plant" brought to Illinois by none other than Obammy, Blago, and Durbin.

Money like that can get a guy in trouble.

Especially if your a crook.

And it takes a hell of a lot less than that to make people disappear.

cardon - January 11th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

Blago will get a pay-off to keep his mouth shut!!

Hucbald - January 11th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

Where is Aaron Burr on this thread, anyway? ~rimshot~

NUTN2SAY - January 11th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

OBAMA IS PERFECT EXAMPLE WHY AMERICA WANTS A "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN" FOR PRESIDENT!

It is Obama that is pushing for leniency and mercy for his "TERRORIST MUSLIM BROTHERS" Barack Obama, right before the eyes of all Americans, is setting the perfect example of why the Founding Fathers wanted a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN with a strong allegiance to the United States of America by having a mother and father who both were U.S. citizens, for president! This clown as president and "COMMANDER in CHIEF" does not know which country he is supposed to be devoted too! He is conflicted! America can not have a president and Commander in Chief that is militarily conflicted…he can't recognize who the enemy is!

Barack Obama is THE threat to the National Security of the United States of America
Barack Obama is the ILLEGAL President of the United States of America

naturalfake - January 11th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

Is Obama disinterested, disengaged because he's just too darn intellectual?

Nope.

It's simply:

THE PASSION OF THE PICKLE-YELLER

http://naturalfake.wordpress.com/2010/01/10/the-p...

Joe Doakes - January 11th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

I'm related to Aaron Burr. If Hamilton lived this country would have had a fair shot at becoming an aristocracy. Then again my long lost relative wanted to be a dictator. You can't f-ing win.

Joe Doakes - January 11th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

They do not give you a clear reason to act. That is why we call them politicians. But your guns will keep the 5 million communist chinese from invading your coast. Always look on the bright side.

Towerclimber - January 11th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

Actually, Aaron Burr was on the side of smaller government and more liberties for individuals. I'm glad he was the better shot! Too bad dueling isn't still legal today. It would be quick way to stop some of these people hell bent on taking our last liberties in the name of "looking after us".

@bjdeming - January 11th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

Little Rock, Arkansas, columnist Paul Greenberg wrote a column about something Hamilton did, called "How It Was Once Done," that I've never forgotten. Yes, Virginia, there once were honest and decent men in America who did the right thing, no matter what the cost:

"…The truth was told, justice done, the public interest served, and even Hamilton's marriage preserved by the grace of a tender and forgiving wife. To quote one historian, 'It was an amazing performance. Never in American history has a public man showed greater candor.' Choosing to sacrifice his private life in order to vindicate his public one, Alexander Hamilton had saved both. Once again honesty had proven the best policy — an old and simple truth, but one that some of our brainiest politicians seem incapable of grasping. It is hard, indeed almost impossible, to imagine so civilized an outcome in this time of 24/7 scandal when politicians, even on a presidential level, choose to lie about some personal weakness until they can no longer get away with it. And it's always the cover-up that is the greater offense against the public trust, and the soul. "

Read the whole thing here:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/greenberg08...

If that's aristocracy, maybe a touch or two of it might be good for us all.

Sadly_Missing - January 11th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

The Founding Father of Crony Capitalism:

What all this frantic Hamilton idolatry demonstrates is how the myth of Alexander Hamilton is the ideological cornerstone of the American system of crony capitalism financed by a huge public debt and legalized counterfeiting through central banking. It is this system that is the real cause of the current economic crisis — contrary to the false proclamations issued by Forbes.com and the Wall Street Journal.

We live in "Hamilton's republic," as the writer Michael Lind has proudly stated. Americans may like to quote Jefferson, George Will once wrote, but we live in Hamilton's country. This is true, but it is not the blessing that people like Lind, Will, and others proclaim. Just the opposite is true, as I argue in my new book, Hamilton's Curse: How Jefferson's Archenemy Betrayed the American Revolution — And What It Means for America Today.

The Real Hamilton

Hamilton was the intellectual leader of the group of men at the time of the founding who wanted to import the system of British mercantilism and imperialistic government to America. As long as they were on the paying side of British mercantilism and imperialism, they opposed it and even fought a revolution against it. But being on the collecting side was altogether different. It's good to be the king, as Mel Brooks might say.

It was Hamilton who coined the phrase "The American System" to describe his economic policy of corporate welfare, protectionist tariffs, central banking, and a large public debt, even though his political descendants, the Whig Party of Henry Clay, popularized the slogan. He was not well schooled in the economics of his day, as is argued by such writers as John Steele Gordon. Unlike Jefferson, who had read, understood, and supported the free-market economic ideas of Adam Smith, David Ricardo, John Baptiste Say (whom Jefferson invited to join the faculty of the University of Virginia), Richard Cantillon, and Turgot (a bust of whom still sits in the entrance to Monticello), Hamilton either ignored or was completely unaware of these ideas. Instead, he repeated the mercantilist myths and superstitions that had been concocted by apologists for the British mercantilist state, such as Sir James Steuart.

Hamilton championed the cause of a large public debt — which he called "a public blessing" — not to establish the credit of the US government or to finance any particular public works projects but for the Machiavellian idea of tying the interests of the more affluent to the state: being government bondholders, they would, he believed, then support all of his grandiose plans for heavy taxation and a government much larger than what was called for in the Constitution. He was right. They, along with Wall Street investment bankers who have marketed the government's bonds, have always provided effective political support for bigger government and higher taxes. That is why Wall Street investment bankers were first in line for a bailout, administered by one of their fellow investment bankers, Treasury Secretary Paulson.

Hamilton argued for a large standing army not because he feared an invasion by France or England, but because he understood that the European monarchs had used such armies to intimidate their own citizens when it came to tax collection. Evidence of this is the fact that Hamilton personally led some 15,000 conscripts into Western Pennsylvania (with George Washington) to attempt to quell the famous Whiskey Rebellion. He was eventually put in charge of the entire expedition, and rounded up two dozen tax protesters, every one of whom he wanted to hang. They were all pardoned by George Washington, however, to Hamilton's everlasting regret.

In a publication entitled "A History of Central Banking in America" the Fed proudly labels Hamilton as its founding father, boasting that he even spoke just like a contemporary Fed chairman. The First Bank of the United States, which was opposed by Jefferson and Madison, created 72 percent inflation in its first five years of operation, as Murray Rothbard wrote in A History of Money and Banking in the United States. It was not rechartered in 1811, but was resurrected by Congress in 1817, after which it created America's first boom-and-bust cycle, which led to the Panic of 1819, the title of another of Rothbard's great works on American economic history.

After years of generating political corruption and economic instability, Hamilton's bank finally came to an end by the early 1840s, thanks to President Andrew Jackson. This led to the twenty-year "free banking" era. Hamiltonian central banking was resurrected once again in the 1860s with the National Currency Acts. This is an important reason why some historians have labeled the postwar decades as a period of "Hamiltonian hegemony."

Sadly_Missing - January 11th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

When Anna Schwartz, Michael Bordo, and Peter Rappaport evaluated this precursor to the Fed in an academic publication, they concluded that it was characterized by "monetary and cyclical instability, four banking panics, frequent stock market crashes, and other financial disturbances" (see their paper in Claudia Goldin, ed., Strategic Factors in Nineteenth-Century Economic Growth). Naturally, the government's response to all of this economic panic and instability caused by centralized banking was to create an even more centralized banking system with the Federal Reserve Act.

Hamilton is perhaps best known among economists for his Report on Manufactures. In his 1905 biography of Hamilton, William Graham Sumner wrote that Hamilton's report advocated "the old system of mercantilism of the English school, turned around and adjusted to the situation of the United States." Thomas Jefferson also wrote that Hamilton's "schemes" for protectionism, corporate welfare, and central banking were "the means by which the corrupt British system of government could be introduced into the United States." They were right.

Hamilton's reputation as having had great expertise in economics and finance has been greatly exaggerated, wrote Sumner, who also wrote that Hamilton's economic thinking was marred by "confusion and contradiction" and that Hamilton was "befogged in the mists of mercantilism." Unfortunately for us, all of Hamilton's bad ideas "proved a welcome arsenal to the politicians" who succeeded him, noted Sumner.

At the constitutional convention Hamilton proposed a permanent president who would appoint all the governors of the states and would have veto power over all state legislation. His opponents correctly interpreted this as advocating a monarchy and, worse yet, a monarchy based on mercantilism. The reason for consolidating all political power first in the central government, and then in the hands of one man, the permanent president, was so that an American mercantilist empire could be centrally planned and controlled without any dissenters, such as tax protestors or free traders who resided in the various states. Hamilton (and his political heirs) understood that forced national uniformity is the only way in which such a central-planning scheme could work. The socialists of the 20th century understood this as well.

Hamiltonian mercantilism is essentially the economic and political system that Americans have lived under for several generations now: a king-like president who rules through "executive orders" and disregards any and all constitutional constraints on his powers; state governments that are mere puppets of the central government; corporate welfare run amok, especially in light of the most recent outrage, the Wall Street Plutocrat Bailout Bill; a $10 trillion national debt ($70 trillion if one counts the government's unfunded liabilities); a perpetual boom-and-bust cycle caused by the Wizard of Oz–like central planners at the Fed; constant military aggression around the world that only seems to benefit defense contractors and other beneficiaries of the warfare state; and more than half of the population bribed with subsidies of every kind imaginable to support the never-ending growth of the state. This is Hamilton's curse on America — a curse that must be exorcized if there is to be any hope of resurrecting American freedom and prosperity.

James - January 11th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

Hamilton was the original big government liberal. He essentially betrayed the American Revolution by striving to bring a British form of mercantilism (i.e. corporatist or fascist) form of government to the U.S. It was originally rejected by the Framers at the Constitutional Convention, but his ideology lived on in the Federalist Party which became the Whigs and then the Republicans. He and the other Federalists believed in a strong, all powerful, imperial type Federal government and were at direct odds with the Jeffersonians who believed in a severely limited Federal government and decentralized power that resided in state and local governments.

His ideology eventually won out during the Civil War. The Civil War had obvious implications on states rights, but the most damaging things to happen to the concept of States rights during that period were the National Currency Act and the National Banking Act, both of which paved the way for the Federal Reserve System and the mess we have today. Control the money and you control the states and the people.

gadsdengurl - January 11th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

Shaheen, Hodes, and Porter still MIA, as protesters converge upon their HOMES.

http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/2010/01/11...

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=...

People believe that Congress is putting the country into debt,” he said. “Town halls and public forums have been almost nonexistent … That’s not exactly facing your constituents.”

Cracker USA - January 11th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

Step 1 … here we go America …

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/01/08/it-begins-f...

GadsdenGurl - January 11th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

"People believe that Congress is putting the country into debt,” he said. “Town halls and public forums have been almost nonexistent … That’s not exactly facing your constituents.” – NH Tea Party Coalition

Shaheen, Hodes, and Porter still MIA, as protesters converge upon their HOMES.
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=...
http://www.nhteapartycoalition.org/tea/2010/01/11...

ElvisP - January 11th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

Democartic controlled Memphis had where you could get pensions after 12 years fo service !!!!! Any age !!!!!

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/dec/02/...

GadsdenGurl - January 11th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

You have to start doing this……. protest outside their homes… so long as they keep ignoring you.

ReaderRedux - January 11th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

Paul Greenberg's column always is a valuable read.

JMA - January 11th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

I'm very against a lot of what Hamilton stood for philosophically, but he's a better man than any currently in Washington. Aaron Burr may have done the US a favor, however.

Joe Doakes - January 11th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

Not entirely true. Yes small government so long as he decided how small.

» Monday Open Thread: Hamilton Edition - Big Government Information - January 11th, 2010 at 8:42 am

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Joe Doakes - January 11th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

Every year they do a reenactment of the duel. I can't say what I'm thinking here. But I'm thinking it!

R. Greene - January 11th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

When the Hell Is Blogovitch going to trial.
Prosecutor Fitzpatrick who had one leak after another while investing Valarie Plame had to shut down the Illinois Senate search because he had Blogo on tape trying to sell the seat.
When the hell is going to take it to trial????

More Illinios Chicago corruption.

Maxx - January 11th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

Hamilton was a statist. He wanted all the power to be centralized into the federal government. If he were alive today I'm sure he would be very pleased to see what has happened. Jefferson was the one that wanted the power broken up with a system of checks and balances. Jefferson was right and Hamilton was wrong.

Bill_Brandt - January 11th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

Wasn't Hamilton a proponet of big government while Jefferson for small government? The argument continues…

Sadly_Missing - January 11th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

Hahaha….. Hamilton's the same thing we have in Washingtion ie large deficits, central banking, fractional reserve banking, corporatism, bailouts, loose interpretation of the constitution and so on. What we have in Washington are Hamilton's bastard children called the Democrats and Republicans.

Sadly_Missing - January 11th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

Yeah your right

Sadly_Missing - January 11th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

Your right but I doubt many people know their history. Or the distinction of Hamilton and Jefferson other than they are our founding fathers!

Sadly_Missing - January 11th, 2010 at 6:54 pm

Its refreshing to see that some people know the truth about the big govt. Hamilton

Hamilton girl - January 11th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

Alexander Hamilton "Father of the Government". There would be no United States of America without Hamilton. Read the Federalist Papers it's very enlightening. He wrote 80 % of them.

To a true revolutionary and patriot Happy Birthday!!!

smrstrauss - January 11th, 2010 at 7:42 pm

Re: "a man that recognized he could not run for President, as he was born outside of the United States!"

Who says that he recognized that he could not run for president? Did he ever write a letter that said "I cannot run?"

He might have run. He certainly was eligible because he was grandfathered. The grandfather clause allows persons to run if they were merely citizens before the adoption of the Constitution, and Hamilton was a Naturalized citizen of New York. Unfortunately, he was shot in a duel, so we will never know.

EdSki - January 11th, 2010 at 11:29 pm

I agree with you that Hamilton was one of the leaders on the big government side of the constitutional convention, and ensuing years. It's interesting his family's wealth was rumored to be built on smuggling rum. Government is the natural destination for those who tend to work outside the law, because then they can not only make it legal, but make it illegal for any one else to compete with them. Check the Kennedys for how to perfect that.

But on the other hand, he was also about 19 years old while commanding an artillery unit on the Jersey side when the greatest military force in the world at that time – the British navy – sailed into New York harbor in 1776 to put an end to all this talk of rebellion against the crown.

In my book he gets props for standing up when it really counted. That took real cojones.

Joe Doakes - January 11th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

We did what we had to do way back when. I apologize for it not being enough.

wldbil - January 12th, 2010 at 8:33 am

I took a survey/test from this site, got a humbling 80% on revolutionary history.
http://www.americanrevolutioncenter.org/node/198

Joshua A. Schaeffer - January 12th, 2010 at 9:58 am

I don't know where you come up with that.

Art. 2 Sec. 1: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;"

Joshua A. Schaeffer - January 12th, 2010 at 10:03 am

Read the notes of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 to see exactly the kind of government Hamilton proposed.

Foamy7 - January 12th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

He was born in the Caribbean. Nevis, to be exact. Not natural born. As to whether he was a citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, I'm sure he was, but perhaps you are correct in your interpretation, and my history professor was (gasp) wrong…

Go figure.

mikatollah - January 12th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

He'll be a lucky man if he manages to stay out of prison.

mikatollah - January 12th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

I don't think you have any idea what "jingoistic" means:

Jingoism is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary as "extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy".[1] In practice, it refers to the advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what they perceive as their country's national interests, and colloquially to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others – an extreme type of nationalism.
or
Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.

More descriptive of people on this list than any of our founding fathers.

mikatollah - January 12th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

The Civil War proved that he was right. As did every national emergency that has occurred since.

mikatollah - January 12th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

And you would have spent the rest of your life in a California prison. Cal knows how to deal with violent criminals.

The Doctor - January 12th, 2010 at 8:08 pm

Ah, the man who invented the "national debt" – taking on the State's debts in order to become "too big to fail"…

Made a nice profit off of it for years, as well. Sheer genius.

mikatollah - January 12th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

Article II grandfathers any one who was an American citizen on the day the Constitution was ratified in 1791. I don't know what it took to confer citizenship on one not born in the Colonies, but he could have made a good case based on his service in the Continental Army.

It is unlikely he would of ever tested the eligibility to be president because of the livelong shame he carried with him due to the circumstances of his birth. He worked hard to conceal the fact that his mother was not married to his father and the fear of this becoming public would probably dissuade him from national public office.

Aaron Burr finally settled the question…

RedWhiteAndJew - January 13th, 2010 at 9:42 am

Another laughable assertion.

mikatollah - January 13th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

I was trying to be kind when I said "I don't think".

Any attempt to communicate begins with commonly accepted definitions of words, or else we are not speaking the same language.

So what is your definition of jingoism?

James - January 13th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

There was a whole lot more going on in the Civil War than the "slavery question". Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson were both against slavery. What do you think they were fighting for?

mikatollah - January 13th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

It is my contention that the regional differences and the economic inequalities could have found a political solution out except for the question of slavery. On that issue there was no room for compromise. "States rights" was code for the right to own slaves. After the war it became code for justifying the denial of the rights of former slaves to vote.

RedWhiteAndJew - January 13th, 2010 at 9:41 am

Well, you thought wrong.

Read the post again. I described a narrative from the documentary which heavily promoted the idea that America is the industrial giant we are today, because of Hamilton's vision. I thought they'd break into a montage of industrial scenes, images of clean cut kids busily working at their school desks, and waving American flags before it done, given the amped-up hero worshippy monologue toward the end.

Try this. Before you make yourself look foolish by picking nits with others' vocabulary, work on your reading comprehension a little.

RedWhiteAndJew - January 13th, 2010 at 9:53 pm

I more suspect you were trying to be a smart aleck.

As to the definition of the word; honestly, what is the point? We can play dueling dictionaries, pulling down from a panoply of sites, to find definitions which suit us best. Play that game if you want to, I won't. I've explained why I used the word, and what attributes of the documentary motivated its choice.

RedWhiteAndJew - January 13th, 2010 at 9:56 pm

Well, at least you now offer some justification for your assertion. We won't be arguing of facts, however, since your claim is pure speculation.

mikatollah - January 13th, 2010 at 10:03 pm

Steve Martin once remarked on a visit to France that, "Those people have a different word for everything!"… as do we.

mikatollah - January 13th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

Without a central government with the power to marshal forces in the common defense the union would not have survived the slavery question. And we certainly would not have survived the 20th century aggression of modern totalitarians like the Nazis and Japan.

mikatollah - January 13th, 2010 at 10:29 pm

I prefer to think of it as a personal opinion informed by history.

mikatollah - January 13th, 2010 at 10:32 pm

What is there to reply to? You used a common word completely out of context and then defended your action with nonsense. There is nothing left to say…

RedWhiteAndJew - January 13th, 2010 at 10:36 pm

Characterize your speculations however you like.

RedWhiteAndJew - January 13th, 2010 at 10:37 pm

You seem to end a lot of threads this way. I didn't misuse the word, and offered more explanation than your responses deserved. Bye then.

mikatollah - January 13th, 2010 at 11:49 pm

Alright, you want to stay at it, let's stay at it. Here is what you said:

RedWhiteAndJew said:
"They also had an actor portraying Thomas Jefferson as a perfumed dandy, speaking quotes in opposition to Hamilton's "forward-thinking creation of the industrial giant we are today."
It was very jingoistic. "

Explain to me again how this statement has anything to do with jingoism. Now keep in mind that jingoism means extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy. The application or the use of force, or threats of force against other countries… an excessive bias in judging one's country superior to all others.

That is jingoism…

RedWhiteAndJew - January 14th, 2010 at 12:44 am

He is what I said, is response to your petulant attempt to score a petty point on a perceived misuse of a word, having been unable to gain any ground on the discussion of issues, in spite of pursuing a policy of quantity at the expense of quality:

"I described a narrative from the documentary which heavily promoted the idea that America is the industrial giant we are today, because of Hamilton's vision. I thought they'd break into a montage of industrial scenes, images of clean cut kids busily working at their school desks, and waving American flags before it done, given the amped-up hero worshippy monologue toward the end."

RedWhiteAndJew - January 13th, 2010 at 9:58 pm

Actually, "states rights" is code for … surprise … states rights. The pesky 10th Amendment and enumerated powers and such.

RedWhiteAndJew - January 13th, 2010 at 10:07 pm

Another non-reply for your echo chamber, then?

GBUCK - January 19th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

Friend – a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You're correct on some of the facts, but incorrect on many of the conclusions to be drawn.

Hammy - January 20th, 2010 at 12:03 am

Jefferson was far more aristocratic than AH… Hamilton wanted a strong central government for the sake of establishing a UNION during the fledgling years of our founding… This isn't the same as "big government".

Hammy - January 20th, 2010 at 12:22 am

Your quote – "Hamilton championed the cause of a large public debt — which he called "a public blessing""

Hamilton's quote – "A national debt, if it is not excessive, will be to us a national blessing."

Where do you see the word "large" there…??? "Public"???

The man was a genius, and would never have stood for the way his fiscal policies have been bastardized by today's liberal spenders and out of control bankers. Hamilton saw debt much in the same way that we all do – as a way to build CREDIT. When our nation was first being formed, we have no credit whatsoever, and a ton of debt, varying from state to state after the war. Hamilton proposed that the federal government assume the debts of the states in order to create the Union that we see today. He was perhaps the first man to respect the title "United States", and, if you read the Federalist Papers, you will see that all he cared about was establishing a real nation for posterity. This notion that he was "greedy" and "scheming" is ridiculous. Yes, he wanted fame and he wanted recognition, but he was far from an aristocrat, and often worked to his clients free of charge. He was never "rich"… Jefferson? Adams?? RICH… and, also given free reign over the revisionist nonsense that became American theory about Alexander Hamilton… That he was a "monarchist", simply because he said, one time, that the English system was "perhaps the best". That comment was spun by his opponents, no differently than the way things are spun and taken out of context today. Hamilton was no friend of England. He never even visited the place, unless you count storming one of their fortifications during a bayonet assault at Yorktown in 1781, while Jefferson and Adams sat comfortably in their nests. After Hamilton died, it was open season on his legacy… and the main hunters were Jefferson and Adams. Two men who were able to actually write their own histories, because they lived so long past the era that made them famous.

Read Chernow… McDonald… Brookheiser… The bottom line is that the people most repulsed by Alexander Hamilton are either liberals who want to frame him as someone who had no faith in the common man for no reason other than being "superior" (he was actually onto something by not letting the "great beast" get too much of a grasp on the precarious situation we were in after winning our independence, regardless of how insensitive and "un-PC" that sounts today)… Electoral College, anyone? It's origins are pretty clear…

See if you can catch how Hamilton all but predicted the Civil War, and see if you can catch how his appeals were totally ignored when it came to granting too much power to individuals withing the states… Seriously… Read The Federalist Papers.

Hamilton would NOT have approved of the way the Fed spends and prints money, either. It wasn't "his bank". They might want to claim him, because he was brilliant, but, therein lies the conflict.

Stop listening to Glenn Beck on Hamilton… It makes no sense whatsoever that a man who calls himself a conservative would choose Jefferson over Hamilton…

Hammy - January 21st, 2010 at 10:36 pm

Hamilton was never wealthy. The claims that he was profiting from government endeavors was proven false back while he was still alive. It was egg all over Jefferson's face.

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