Saturday Open Thread: Afghanistan Edition
by PubliusToday, in 2001, troops of the Northern Alliance took control of Kabul, capital of Afghanistan.
The future for Afghanistan may not be as bright as it was today, eight years ago.
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68 Comments
People. We are not in A-Stan to turn it into California.
We are in A-Stan to prevent it from being a massive terrorist training camp resort.
They don't have ROADS! It is only possible to civilize it so far. All we need is one bast@rd tough enough to run it as an ally to the US, and not an ally to OBL and his posse. It may never be a westernized democratic nirvana. But I'm OK if it is also not frickin Disneyland for Terror Geeks.
The BIGGEST problem in A-Stan right now is the dithering CINC. If he had a brain, he'd follow the advise of his hand picked General, and if it goes wrong blame it all on the General. Instead he is so afraid of getting any stink on himself that he can't find a strategy to save his own a$$ with both hands.
I personally know people who lived, worked, fought, and protected Karzai 8 years ago. And I trust their judgment. Maybe he is the best we can do. I believe in working with what we have, and taking ground truth as it is, and not trying to make some fairy tale reality.
Note to CINC. History has proven (see quagmire in Vietnam) that DC council of war running the battle is a terrible mistake, and the best answer is to trust THE PROFESSIONAL General on the ground, with eyes on the target, and decades of training behind him. Yet another meeting in DC will not get a better strategy of WAR, possible it will get a better strategy of Cover Your A$$ (but I like my version above best for that also).
GOD Bless our troops in A-Stan and in Iraq, keep them safe, and make them successful, bring them home safe as Heroes.
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Here it comes!
The orgy of social engineering spending will have to be paid for somehow. It appears that Oba-Mao has determined some of the payment will come from government agencies spending cuts.
I fear he will decide that our national security budget should be cut, just when we need to keep our defenses up.
Check it out:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/14/obama-...
It is just plain wrong to put our military in harms way and then not give them the tools to do the job right and as safely as possible. This dithering idiot, (aka: Commander in Chief) is the problem. While he runs all over the world apologizing for America, covers the ass of ACORN and SIEU, has beer with a cop and liberal professor on his patio, tries to cram shit down our throats that we don't even want and arranges for terrorist enemies to be tired in our courts…our troops have their asses being shot at and he does nothing to help them. EITHER LET THE PROFESSIONALS DO THE JOB THEY ARE TRAINED FOR OR LET THEM GET THE HELL OUT NOW! STOP DITHERING!
Even more important than talking to the brass is spending some time in the ranks talking to as many of the GIs who bear the battle as possible.
If you want to hear straight talk, listen to them. They'll gladly tell you exactly what they know from seeing it first hand.
LBJ, McNamara, Bundy, Rusk, and so many of the "Hubristas" of the Viet Nam era paid scant attention to the grunts they were hurling into the meat grinder.
I was one of those swingin' dicks who would jumped at the chance to tell LBJ and the rest to stay the f*** out of tactical decisions and let us win the G**d*** war.
Not that this perennial display of hubris inside the Beltway to this day still pisses me off in the extreme
"Flight of the Intruder" captures very well the excruciating frustration we endured when worthy targets were allowed to stand.
Speaking of Oba Mao, I'd actually wear that T-Shirt of him in red army garb. I think it is priceless how the Chinese totally read him spot on, and the MSM's totally missed it.
I suspect regretfully the largest cut to Oba Mao's budget with be from DoD, the Intel three letter acronyms, and Homeland defense. He can't cut his constituency off. So all the entitlements and education will be untouched. The companies the US controls that employ union labor won't be cut, not sure about the rest.
as much as I hate to say it…….Get out now. Stop killing US troops for no reason. The A-gan govt is corrrupt, driven by opium trade and the billions of profits connected through drug trade around the globe. We can not win this war with a strategy that dithers and a President that only kows how to vote "present"……he has demonstrated time and agin, for many many years that he can not make a decision….when it counts. Especially, when our troops lives are in harms way. Get out now. Withdraw troops around the globe — leave Europe, leave Asia, leave Cuba, et al and put our troops along our borders to stop illegal immigartion and drug trade that is funding gangsters throughout our land. We need to clean up our cities, and stop the killing in our own country.
Prof Turgeson,
#1 – I thank you DEEPLY for your service. I am a huge fan of military history, and I know we were winning if DC had just left it alone. THANK YOU for being a grunt. I was a peacetime grunt myself.
#2 – Flight of the intruder was a killer flick. 100% agreement.
#3 – McCrystal did not get the jobs has had by ignoring the grunts.I work a lot with SOCOM today and he seems respected. I respect those guys (the grunts) VERY much. My point is to strategy, and unfortunately most grunts are not trained in devising strategy, but in executing it, and adaptation on the fly as it falls apart. If I ever hear Stanley is not listening to his grunts, I'm done with him. Oba mao, unfortunately "can't handle the truth" and I suspect his babblefish in his ear would pervert what any grunt told him because it does not fit his world view, therefore does not compute, therefore is rejected.
I hate to say it But we MUST get out!
The government elected by the people is corrupt with fringe elements weilding unhealthy control. their economy is failing and is largely based on mind-altering recreational use product. The cities are rife with violence and unruly gangs.
Yes, it is time we pulled out of CALIFORNIA!
It's Vietnam again. Fight aggressively to win or get out.
You can't risk servicemen/womens lives for political CYA BS.
In the meantime…..
PRESIDENT OBAMA MEETS WITH TAX-EVADING ALIEN
http://naturalfake.wordpress.com/2009/11/13/presi...
Yes, it's real.
Obama couldn't win a war against FOX News, let alone one in Afghanistan.
Obamas term will be over before he is done studying what course of action to take in Afghanistan
I hope and pray it won't be that bad…But I fear you may be right.
"I want an Afghanistan plan that is easy, cheap, safe, and politically correct with an exit strategy. Now come back when you have one.”
Barrack Obama to Generals
slickwilly
I agree and disagree.
We could win this war. If we had a true leader, alas we do not.
I have a feeling he is dithering fro a reason, to get Americans to say 'If you won't fight, bring them home.' , then he can pull out and say he is responding to the American people. After watching his childish manipulations for the past ten months, I am fairly sure that is what he wants to do. He sees this as his 'Civil War', pitting troops against his brothers.
Dave,
You get the picture and summed it up conscisely.
Liberty666
We do not have a true leader in office. We have a swishey, prancing poser leading us down the yellow brick road of PC, Corruption and Destruction.
(this is the Reaver administration of the Alliance, nothing good is coming from it .)
Dave,
I read your first paragraph, and was thinking " is he talking about Afghanistan, or America?"
Cowboy,
Regretfully, it is all too close to true at the moment for our country.
Andy Stern is the #1 visitor to the White House, Pelosi and Reid are cramming poison down our throats Oba Mao has Hugo Chavez'd finance & auto makers, and is attempting same with medicine and energy.
If he is successful, it will be time to pull out…
Cowboy,
I'd like to be flattered.
But it in the end, I'm night school educated computer geek with minimal experience as a SGT in the National Guard who reads Military and US History (Used to read Sci Fi).
It is SAD that I may have a better grasp on A-Stan than our Harvard educated & duly elected CINC.
It breaks my heart…
Dave,
If folks think energy prices are high now, just wait until the government gets involved. People will see their electric bills triple, and their natural gas bills double. Gasoline will be five dollars a gallon; IF, you can get it.
They will bring the engine of industry and economy to a screeching halt, and when they are through tinkering, when they realize it is broken beyond repair, they will throw up thier arms and walk away from it in frustration, content with the great job they have done. Then they will beg energy people to come back in and fix it. I don't think we will…………
Cowboy,
Preaching to the choir here… I agree 1000%
Somebody on Fox yesterday (I think it was Bret Baier) spoke of the phenomenon where Libs vote in higher entitlements and services, the govt. raises taxes and fees to cover, and they MOVE their homes and/or biz to get away from the increase, and then DO IT AGAIN!
Look at the millionaires fleeing NYC and jumping to NJ! Bet you the Million I don't have they are not all (or even majority) conservatives…
Well,
One doesn't have to be a graduate of West Point, to be able to see the picture clearly. My family has been fighting and dying for this country, since before the Revolutionary War. That is a long time, a lot of experience, a lot of dead Soldiers, Sailors and Marines. That gives people like me, and you, the right to have an opinion. Currently, our military is floundering; they have no Commander in Chief. They key word in Commander in Chief is COMMAND. We currently have a SIC (Stooge in Charge). There is a difference.
Oba-Mao's National Security Advisor is retired USMC General James Jones who had VN combat experience, including Khe San. I wonder how much the crowd in the WH listens to him? I suspect he has something to do with the delay in deciding on what to do and how many troops to send to Afghanistan. All of us in VN who knew anything about the alleged government we were trying to prop up and save knew it was less than effective if the caliber and willingness of the RVN troops to fight was any indication. A lot of them were dedicated and brave; it seemed that a lot more were interested in keeping their hides out of harm's way, but they had to live with it year in and year out whereas most of us just spent a year there, if we were lucky – less than a year for a lot who weren't.
The Karzai government, by all reports, is totally corrupt, which appears to be the rule in that part of the world rather than the exception. Whether to send more of our best to keep them in power has to be an ugly decision to make. I hope Oba-Mao decides to lay waste to the Taliban strongholds and finds a way to get rid of the worst of the corruption, but that would be a tall task even for a CINC who was competent. I'm less than optimistic about this mess.
Gawdalmighty! He's done it again!
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-...
I lost my lunch the first time he bowed to a royal. I just did it again, this time to another emperor.
Does this moron have a clue how barbarically that country treated our POWs?
Does he know what kind of message prostrating the President before foreign royals sends?
Does he have a clue about our Declaration's words?
Everyone bows to each other in Japan, but he's on an official visit representing the entire country. We do not bow to anyone, nor do we expect anyone to bow to us.
He has no right to do that, period!
Cut Obama a break! Poor man.
After all:
PRESIDENT OBAMA HIDES RARE MEDICAL CONDITION
http://naturalfake.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/obama...
CBS "fact checks" Palin's book:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/13/politic...
Their revelations are pretty small beer. Their list seems more full of their opinions and judgments than of actual facts.
They just can't stand her, can they? I love it when they do this sort of thing. They're really scraping the bottom of the Kool-Aid barrel. It is so self-relevatory.
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Ha! Such great political cunning on Barry's part! He has cleverly countered all the criticism about his possibly being a Muslim, or at least unusually deferential to them, when he (not really officially) bowed to the Saudi king, by, as Professor Turgeson noted above, bowing to the Japanese Emperor as well!
Now awaiting the WH Gibbs Spin…
Where are the protocol officials who should be advising him that Presidents don't do that? Is he, the serial campaigner, instead listening to old campaign staffers telling him how to suck up for support?
Can we somehow get him away from Japan before he starts negotiations into reparations for America's unwarranted and illegal attack and invasion of Japanese soil? After all, he can argue, we provoked them by supplying covert aid to England…
You know, at this point, the only reason I can think of for keeping him in office is Nancy then becomes VP and Biden looks like he'd trip and fall down a long staircase if he tried talking and chewing gum at the same time. Anyone else got any better reasons?
Friday, I got to see ABC "world news" start their "book review" by saying she quickly wrote it on a kitchen table in an apartment (the piece did not get better) followed by Inside Edition starting off by saying this woman was the ghost writer.
So, which smear is it, is the book a hastily slopped-together mess, or is she not smart enough to write a decent book herself?
A swishey, prancing poser? Please allow me to defend our President!
Some would have us think Obama is another Elton Johnny at heart. I refuse to believe this. True, Barry has been known to hold one, but only for a very dear, very close friend, and not all so often as has been reported, and even then, only until the acme of turgidity had passed, which was relatively soon.
It all sounds so sadly familiar.
A Democrat President, who's a machine politician driving a huge new domestic entitlement program, with no experience in foreign matters.
Perfumed Princes of the Pentagon demanding more and more conventional troop.
A tenacious insurgency, fueled by a culture of war, funded and protected by a neighboring country.
Ignoring advice by guys on the ground on how to fight the war.
I would encourage everyone here to read Maj Gant's report "One Tribe At A Tim". Maj Gant is a Special Forces officer who during tours in Afghanistan initiated a practical nuanced strategy which worked in his area of operations. Sadly is being ignored by the powers that be in DC.
Here's his report http://blog.stevenpressfield.com/wp-content/theme...
Cowboy,
Yes. And I thank you & your family for their service.
Clearly we have the right, it is just sad CINC is so clueless. COMMAND is the key definition to CINC.
I do take issue with SIC, I believe the Stooges were brilliant & funny. Oba Mao is neither, and you insult stooges everywhere with this comparison.
We simply have a DINC "Ditherer in Conference" and just like his illustrious career record shows, he is excellent at voting "Present" or at following his party leadership's directive and voting "Lemming".
My wife says he is an empty suit and a puppet and she wants to know who is pulling his strings.
President Stick Figure is the empty suit incarnate
You ain't wrong and you ain't lyin'.
He's gonna get our military men and women killed with his dithering. He'll also get our civilians here in the U.S. killed with Healthcare and Cap 'n' Trade. He's a monster posing as a man.
The empty suit incarnate — well said!
Prof,
I'm not disputing your take.
I'm a results oriented guy. Tribal politics is no more corrupt than mafia families, so be it, that is all they know.
All I care about is that the "Don" of A-Stan is our ally, and he does not allow our enemy to train, rest, hide in his turf.
World Peace is not the problem I want solved today.
Cowboy,
This is my favorite today. I hope you don't mind that I'm stealing it…
My stepdad, had a saying about "…could not fight his way out of a wet paper sack" he was USN Korean war vet…
Take it as a token in repayment. Seems to fit here as well…
DING DING DING… We Have a WINNER!!!!
HPJr,
Ditto sir. Sickens me but I think you are right. The casualties won't stop with the military in harms way… America is under attack. "I have seen the enemy and it is…"
If I ever get the chance to meet Obama I am going to bow – we all should…. The next tea party in front of capital hill we shoudl all bow… I think it would be great !!!
Prof,
Based on behavior, the words of the Declaration, and even more so the Constitution, are meaningless to him.
I'll agree that, for a zinger, Empty Suit Incarnate is a winner. I love the phrase. It's got mood!
However, for more in-depth commenting, your words are award-worthy, as well.
Your comments (above) were on target. Thank you for the pointed remarks. Clearly, you've given this stuff some careful consideration. Very good thinking.
but can he use chop stixs?
I think Obama wants people to bow to him, if he just goes first. Bowbama!
I think we should give him the arm salute…Seig Heil!! Forgive the spelling. But Obummer is a fascist.
HP Jr,
Thank you sir.
Someday that may equate to a higher Rep Score
(not sure how those work really). I am very passionate in my support of the warfighter AND their mission. I have been since Iraq 1. I am also VERY passionate about America and what it means (what it could & should mean). Some because I'm a veteran, some because I study history, much because I have 3 daughters…
As to the Zinger, I may keep using Oba Mao, cause it kinda says what I'm feeling…
Again, thank you for the kind words.
I thought he was a socialist. Can he be both a fascist and a socialist? At the same time? Or is he a fascist some of the time and a socialist other times?
l3ep75ob@aol.com
Only if my back is to him, a la William Wallace.
Researchers at CALIT2, a state and federally funded collaboration between University of California at Irvine and UC San Diego have engineered a device to help illegal aliens cross the border, with our tax dollars.
http://www.firefifty.com/wordpress
Researchers at CALIT2, a state and federally funded collaboration between University of California at Irvine and UC San Diego have engineered a device to help illegal aliens cross the border, with our tax dollars.
http://www.firefifty.com/wordpress
Fascists and socialists are on the same (left) side of the political fence, same as you.
What pray tell does Wahhabi President Obama expect of the troops in Afghanistan 2009-10! His Imman Holder, wants to send them flowers and chocolates, his press wants to feed them bullshit pancakes every morning and his followers want Bush to burn at the stake. When will you Americans wake the hell up?
You sure about that? Relying on the word of somebody who's spent 40 years lost in the bewilderness may not be the path to enlightenment.
HumanPersonJr
Great defense.
You have been reassigned to head defender of the 'won's' reputation.
gingersnapper
Don't forget to lift your kilt.
Dave, I see you're sucking on the government tit. Good thing we pay our taxes so you can collect.
I'm not sure of anything, but I've learned to trust my spidey-senses.
Well, they did steer me wrong a couple of times…
Hmm, well, ok, never mind.
LOL — He'll be sorry!
A big BOW WOW for the POS who occupies the oval office…. Every American should be mortified !
Funny!!! That explains it!!! But,it's really just pathetic, isn't it?
I've been paying taxes (and plenty of them) for over 30 years. And I'm still paying them.
The DoD is probably the only tax money I'm happy to have paid over all of those years.
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No kidding. I wish most of my tax money would go to the DoD. How different things would be if we could designate our tax dollars like our charity dollars to the United Way.
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