Pelosi Health Care Bill: The Worst Bill Ever
by PubliusFrom Wall Street Journal:
Speaker Nancy Pelosi has reportedly told fellow Democrats that she’s prepared to lose seats in 2010 if that’s what it takes to pass ObamaCare, and little wonder. The health bill she unwrapped last Thursday, which President Obama hailed as a “critical milestone,” may well be the worst piece of post-New Deal legislation ever introduced.
In a rational political world, this 1,990-page runaway train would have been derailed months ago. With spending and debt already at record peacetime levels, the bill creates a new and probably unrepealable middle-class entitlement that is designed to expand over time. Taxes will need to rise precipitously, even as ObamaCare so dramatically expands government control of health care that eventually all medicine will be rationed via politics.
Yet at this point, Democrats have dumped any pretense of genuine bipartisan “reform” and moved into the realm of pure power politics as they race against the unpopularity of their own agenda. The goal is to ram through whatever income-redistribution scheme they can claim to be “universal coverage.” The result will be destructive on every level—for the health-care system, for the country’s fiscal condition, and ultimately for American freedom and prosperity.
•The spending surge. The Congressional Budget Office figures the House program will cost $1.055 trillion over a decade, which while far above the $829 billion net cost that Mrs. Pelosi fed to credulous reporters is still a low-ball estimate. Most of the money goes into government-run “exchanges” where people earning between 150% and 400% of the poverty level—that is, up to about $96,000 for a family of four in 2016—could buy coverage at heavily subsidized rates, tied to income. The government would pay for 93% of insurance costs for a family making $42,000, 72% for another making $78,000, and so forth.
At least at first, these benefits would be offered only to those whose employers don’t provide insurance or work for small businesses with 100 or fewer workers. The taxpayer costs would be far higher if not for this “firewall”—which is sure to cave in when people see the deal their neighbors are getting on “free” health care. Mrs. Pelosi knows this, like everyone else in Washington.
Even so, the House disguises hundreds of billions of dollars in additional costs with budget gimmicks. It “pays for” about six years of program with a decade of revenue, with the heaviest costs concentrated in the second five years. The House also pretends Medicare payments to doctors will be cut by 21.5% next year and deeper after that, “saving” about $250 billion. ObamaCare will be lucky to cost under $2 trillion over 10 years; it will grow more after that.
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203 Comments
AMSICK.
The new Health Care Bill, brought to US, courtesy of Madame Nancy Pelosi, and Sir Harry Reid.
In the past, men could say more, and mean more in two pages, than Nancy could do in two thousand.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/1644...
In the past, men could say more, and mean more in two pages, than Nancy could do in two thousand.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/1644...
Nothing this Democrat from California makes much sense. Again, she is a Democrat from California which explains all. Reid, Baucus, Pelosi………NEXT!
And yet. What are the consequences of doing nothing?
The cost of health insurance has DOUBLED in 8 years while incomes have stagnated. Even the health insurance lobbyists do not dispute that these trends will continue. Our health care costs far more than any other industrialized nation, we live less than most industrialized countries, and still you claim "there is no problem"
Every single person reading this is one serious family illness away from bankruptcy. In fact, medical emergencies are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States.
Republicans and conservatives had so many years to fix a broken system. All we got was Terry Schaivo'w law and unfunded medicare part D, adding 10 Trillion to the deficiet over 10 years.
You could have done it your way. Now we are at the breaking point, conservatives failed to act. So it's gonna be done the progressive way.
If are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!
Queen Nancy Pelosi reportedly ordered Capitol Hill police to block a GOP staffer from attending the Speaker’s public option announcement on Capitol Hill.
Transparency, schmansparency:
Power to the people!
As always, sunlight is the best disinfectant.
do you have an apparent problem with democracy?
scott,
A medical emergency? One serious emergency away from bankruptcy?
Is that what would call CIT's filing for bankruptcy, after receiving several billion in TARP funds last year? Is that a medical emergency?
You do have some valid points though. If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Consequently, government is not the solution, government is the problem.
Be afraid, I am!!! Dems could ram it thru…
Yeah, just like Congress actually wrote the stimulus bill.
oh, wait, they didn't. their special interest, communist and terrorist loving friends at the Apollo Alliance did.
"A medical emergency"
62% of all personal bankruptcies in the U.S. in 2007 were caused by health problems—and 78% of those filers had insurance
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/conte...
It is obvious that Dems and Reps priorities are 1) party, 2) power, 3) deep pockets, and if there is room 4) people.
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#tcot…
well, well, well…..at least you are trying to make sense out of a 1990 page bill, that should be reduced to no more than 10 pages, excluding all the ammendments, add-ons and pork for each of the 500+ in Congress…..everyone wants their one special interests page included. But, the reality is Hospitals are closing faster than you can blink, since providers only get about 90% for Medicare and 70% for Medicaid services provided…. Doctors are also getting squeezed. Thus, the greater number of patients getting OBAMACARE… WILL ONLY REDUCE REVENUE PER PATIENT, AND SQUEEZE OPERATING MARGINS…THUS ACCELERATING EVEN MORE FUTURE HOSPITAL CLOSURES OR BANKRUPTCIES. MAKE SENSE?? Also, as we see healthcare quality go down, fewer hospitals left to care for patients, and watch many Doctors retire or quit…..you might have to wait 6 months for that MRI or breast exam, or prostate biopsy?? BUT, by then, you might become terminal. hmmm, hmmmm, hmmmmm
As a small busines owner, I provide my employees a Cadiallac plan, but if we will be taxed for giving employees healthcare….than I would be better off to just pay the 8% payroll tax for Obamacare, and let my employees feel th pain so they can vote these Marxsists out in the next election cycle.
Sunlight as a disenfectant?
The Solution to Pollution is Dilution.
Dark storm clouds are gathering on the horizon and a storm is brewing. It is unusual though, that we have all the colors of the rainbow, before the storm.
The red's of the ACORN uniforms.
The purple's of the SEIU uniforms.
The blacks' of the New Black Panther Party Uniforms.
The pink's of the Code Pinko gals uniforms.
The green's of the Van Jones green movement.
All mixed together and brought to US courtesy of Yellow Journalism……….
It is a veritable cornucopia of Jessie Jacksons dream, a true RAINBOW COALITION.
Is it just me, or is Nancy Pelosi starting to look more and more like Marty Feldman
If you read the bill and applied some common sense you'd realize that it's a lie from the word go.
well, if it's something you disagree with, that's kinda the whole point of voting. that's democracy in action. Are you coming out and saying you oppose the Constitution?
I'm fine with the outcome, though your inflammatory rhetoric is a bit absurd.
NOPE.
Just have a problem with hand outs, freebies and entitlements.
Hmmm.
It all comes down to personal responsibility. Perhaps they need to tighten up a bit on the Bankruptcy Regulations…………
The results of tomorrow's elections will send shockwaves throughout the country. Ms. Pelosi may not worry about her status as Queen of San Fran, but if she thinks other dems will take a bullet to help get her NancyCare passed she is more delusional than Harry Reid on a bad day.
I have no problem with representative democracy.
I have a problem with people who SWORE and OATH to uphold the Constitution of MY United States of American, and then going behind closed doors and releasing stuff at 3am for a vote at 8am – PURPOSELY undermining that very same Constitution.
But from your posts, you don't seem to have a problem with that, do you?
Frankly, I think she looks like Jackie Mason.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR4Ea8EQoG0&fe...
But Jackie at least is funny, and tells the truth…………..
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Scott Z-you're ignorant! If you think graduate students will go into a profession only guaranteeing them an "exsistance." Not to mention that the healthcare profession has a higher rate of workplace injury than construction workers. All healthcare professions require continuing educational credits to keep licensure-those costs are not generally paid for by the employer-except for nursing asst's. Under Obamacare they (nursing asst's) might just as well work in fast food because they'll have the "same"benefits! Why risk getting injured for life as a medical professional? Not to mention-you and your so-called PROGRESSIVES-Catholic hospitals will LOCK their doors. They will NOT provide government funded abortions on demand. All of these issues resulting in a WAITING LINE! Healthcare you'll pay through the nose for and have minimal access to!
looking over the 2000 pages, i do not see any Obamacare provision for the 2,500 babies (unborn US citizens) that are aborted each day in America. Who is looking out for their healthcare?? Don't these US citizens deserve their right to free healthcare too?…. especially before we provide free healthcare to illegal aliens???
Where is the fainess, the justice??? for those that can't speak for themselves??? I would support Obamacare more, if they would simply address this one single issue, and stop killing innocent babies before they get a chance to vote. Oh….I guess that's why they don't mind killing 2,500 babies a day….they can't vote.
the majority are responsible people who mostly have insurance, pay insurance premiums then get in to car accidents, get cancer, extended hospitalizations, etc. and are denied proper coverage.
i don't know what on earth personal responsibility has to do with this?
Every single person reading this is one serious family illness away from bankruptcy. In fact, medical emergencies are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States.
Prove it!
Scott_z – Very few people are saying there isn't a problem, but the lib media has helped dems blow it way out of proportion, and run with the "you haven't tried to do anything, now we're 'forced' to put it in government control" line.
First off, you mis-use the word conservative. Conservatives haven't been in power since Reagan. The repubs in congress have been part of the problem, and most conservatives will admit that without blinking an eye. All dems are doing now is what the repubs were doing but at a much faster rate.
As far as the problem goes, do you have any idea why our health insurance costs are so high? How about addressing Tort reform (which dems refuse to do) which will drastically lower medical costs? How about allowing across state line competition, just to begin?
What's amazing is that you use the cost of health insurance as your main arguing point, when govt. run health care isn't even trying to address the cost issues.
Does it make you feel better when the government takes the money out of your back pocket instead of the front? It must.
Lastly, regarding your statement: "Every single person reading this is one serious family illness away from bankruptcy. In fact, medical emergencies are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States."
You come off as a looney toon that can't stop drinking the cool-aid. You do realize that nearly every business provided health insurance, covering over 3/4 of Americans, has annual caps on out of pocket expenses right? There is a reason that 87% of the country is happy with their health insurance!!
You're completely spouting a falacy! Every single person reading this article is not one serious family illness away from bankruptcy! Where on earth did you get that idea? Because someone told you to believe that? You sir, just like many other liberals, amaze me with your lack of knowledge. Most of us, if we got cancer tomorrow, would be completely covered past a very reasonable annual cap.
I admire the concern always pouring out of your liberal hearts, but the fact that you can spout ideal after ideal without a care for how it will affect our country is truly sad.
You know who will be affected the worst by the 5.4% tax increase to the "wealthy" with this bill? Small Business.
You know who creates the most jobs in this country? Yep, Small Business. When you take 5.4% more out of the owners of small business' pockets, it's going to do anything but help this country. It will hurt in many, many ways.
no….no….no…..more like she just got a proctology exam from one of her PINK friends
You sound like you are koolaide drunk
This bill is not the solution therefore you are part of the problem.
"Republicans and conservatives had so many years to fix a broken system" . . . you make a common yet understandable mistake. We true conservatives will no longer be controlled and manipulated by the "Republican Party" machine. To understand this look at Doug Hoffman in the NY election. We need health care reform, but common sense reform. Party politics has been disastrous for this country.
Can you honestly say you're happy with congress right now? Do you really think the Reps have caused most of the problems? We need to clean up both sides of the isle. We need REAL change.
Nancy Pelosi = aerosmith lead singer in drag
yeah, not many people vote for representatives on the platform of "I'll have the Apollo Alliance write the bill, then i won't read it, and then i'll vote for it." That sure is democracy in action. That sounds more like corruption, to me.
And what is my inflammatory rhetoric? The FACTS? oh, those pesky facts and videos of people in their own words. how inflammatory. how awful! we wouldn't want to call a spade a spade, now would we?
scott-Z = DoJ agitation squad
Stimulus was a bill to fund re-election campaigns for Dems and to pay off those who had bet the farm getting Dems elected in 2008.
Cap and Trade is a bill to impoverish the middle-class and energy/industry companies to make them more "pliable", along with providing a buy off so that when there is a socialist rollover of the Constitution, they can claim legitimacy with the world from paying it forward.
This healthcare bill is a big government effort to create a huge number of government positions to fill with Dem cronies who will then be dependent on its continuation through liberal votes.
Dems don't give a flying hoot about people … just power.
She’s got that Charlie Manson stare down. Just put a swastika in here forehead and wa…la!
I learned recently that this was the exact method used to charter the Federal Reserve. The bill had been shot down. The conspirators waited until December 23rd. Congress was not formally recessed but almost all of the congressmen had gone home for the holiday. The ones who stayed behind did so for the specific purpose of getting their bill passed. Woodrow Wilson signed it and gave the government the ability to run up the huge debt we have today. Or something like that…
From a contributor to Jeff Schreiber's America's Right Blog:
'One other thing. People need to understand that simply reading the 1,900 pages in the new bill doesn’t even come close to quantifying the number of pages of laws people would need to read in order to get the full picture. Every time one of these bills makes reference to some other law, unless a reader goes to that other law and examines exactly what that law says, it is difficult if not impossible to understand what exactly the bill incorporating and referencing it is proposing.
I’ve not tried to ascertain how many additional pages of laws so incorporated and referenced one would need to read to get a clear picture, but my guess would be at least ten times as many pages as the host bill. Therefore, in order to understand what the Pelosi bill really means, instead of 2,000 pages or so, you should be prepared to read roughly 20,000 pages of already-existing law. In 72 hours before the vote, of course. And, barring a 400-page amendment dropped at the last moment, you'll be done.
Bottom line, though, is that this bill is an absolute wonderland of horrors. If it passes, America as we know it is in a world of trouble.'
http://www.americasright.com/2009/10/erisa-deal-i...
So much for thinking Pelosi was a witch.
It's vampires that go down in flames when exposed to sunlight.
And more handouts !!! I like the word so it could sell easier "SafeLink" – and it's FREE !!! Really?
https://www.safelinkwireless.com/EnrollmentPublic...
"Every single person reading this is one serious family illness away from bankruptcy." you have absolutely no factual or statistical basis for making this ridiculous, bald-faced assertion. not only does it not lend any credence to your argument, the fact that it is so utterly unsupportable completely undermines the credibility of anything else you may have to say.
for all you know, some of the people reading this may be multi-millionaires, or even billionaires, for whom a serious illness may be a personal tragedy, but would be barely a blip in their financial status.
but thanks for making it so easy to weed you out as someone who is not to be taken seriously.
The problem is the lack of personal repsonsibility. It is not up to 86% of insured Americans that are happy with their insurance to pay for everyone else. It is not up to the elderly to give up their last years because some lazy parasite demands that the "government" owes them healthcare. If you want health insurance do like everyone else and buy it. This is coming from someone who could get disability but refused because I don't want to leach off of other hard working Americans. I am only 25 and still work construction 6 days a week to pay the bills. Personal responsibily is where it all begins not the Americans paying their taxes. So that the CONgress can setup social security, medicare, medicaid…and all the other entitlement programs that insist that the government should take taxpayers money and delegate it to future voters.
I just ran the numbers to see what this bill will cost me due to one change. I max out my FSA every year which is 5200. My wife and I file jointly and claim 110 if income. Because of the reduction of Flexible Spending Account to a max of 2500 tax exempt dollars a year this will cost me an additional 1016.55 of taxes per year.
FSA is
http://www.asiflex.com/Calculator/Tax-Savings-Cal...
Obama can't control small business – we'll he will through healtcare – this is why he will not help them…
Thanks Roosevelt, you prick. You got the ball rolling. Now "cash for clunkers" are you serious? Every patriot should ask themselves "How did this happen?" It might as well be "needles for junkies"…oh wait, already got that one. Hey, maybe we could import underaged children for pedaphiles…well, we have "government funding" for that also. Here we go tax fattening foods but when queers can not hold in their own feces anymore, we will have taxpayers pay for their rectal surgery…oh wait "obamacare" will cover that also. What a great idea get rid of personal responsibility and setup more entitlement ponzii schemes. Cubacare anyone? Hmm..Hmm..Hmm Barack Hussien Obama. God Bless America!
Many are self inflicted also…such as seizures caused by mixing drugs.
hey, hey, hey! be nice- rumor has it that Steven Tyler is actually somewhat conservative. and what did he ever do to you, anyway?
(but you make a good point. whenever i see his daughter, Liv Tyler, i always wonder how insanely gorgeous her mom must be if she's that pretty with a dad like that…)
again. 62% of all personal bankruptcies in the U.S. in 2007 were caused by health problems—and 78% of those filers HAD insurance. I don't think you are reading very well.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/conte...
"I am only 25 and still work construction 6 days a week to pay the bills. "
congrats, here's your gold star. i work too, but I generally don't feel the need to brag about being employed…
Nancy Pelosi (more specifically the actual authors of this bill) intentionally left tort reform out of the bill. The reason? They didn't want to piss off the trial attoryneys who donate huge amounts of dough to the democrats. Howard Dean said so himself and he's probably wishing he hadn't.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/b...
Any informed person knows that tort reform is one of the top three strategies that can be used which would lead to responsible, free americans being able to afford their own health care.
I don't think there is a thinking person in this country who does not want to see health care reformed. But what you are suggesting, Scott, is that we allow the criminals who screwed it up in the first place to now come in and fix it. And we can now see from the first two drafts of their bill that they have no intention of fixing the problem but are trying to further fleece the American citizenry.
Scott, you are rooting for the bad guys.
Nancy Pelosi (more specifically the actual authors of this bill) intentionally left tort reform out of the bill. The reason? They didn't want to piss off the trial attoryneys who donate huge amounts of dough to the democrats. Howard Dean said so himself and he's probably wishing he hadn't.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/b...
Any informed person knows that tort reform is one of the top three strategies that can be used which would lead to responsible, free americans being able to afford their own health care.
I don't think there is a thinking person in this country who does not want to see health care reformed. But what you are suggesting, Scott, is that we allow the criminals who screwed it up in the first place to now come in and fix it. And we can now see from the first two drafts of their bill that they have no intention of fixing the problem but are trying to further fleece the American citizenry.
Scott, you are rooting for the bad guys.
Can we at least hope – that w/this bill…she can get a new plastic surgeon?
"You could have done it your way."
What is MY way? Do you seriously think that everyone against THIS health care doesn't want some type of reform? Who ever said DOING NOTHING was the answer?
The progressive way? And what way is that? Ram it down everyones throat and then choke on it until EVERYONE dies from waiting in line?
Do the "so called" Progressives even think of opening the state borders to sell Insurance across state lines?
No. And why is that? Get rid of the regulations and government intervention so "people" can lower the health care costs through the FREE MARKET. There's an idea.
"life span is shorter" And did you continue with the reading? No? Check out the QUALITY OF LIFE, then we can discuss it.
cowboy logic for president!
It might be hard to repeal but it's not impossible. In 2012 it coudl be wiped out with the stroke of pen since most of it doesnt kick in until 2013 anyway.
As far as Pelosi and the other usual suspects, well it's going to take a constituional convention to shut the leftist nuts down, and 2012 seems like a good time for that, by then America will most likely be headed for ash heap, but with the right leader it can be recovered.
If Obama steals an election in 2012 the majority of small businesses should just shut down and flee the country, leave the beggars to their own devices, I figure the corrupticians can last 2-4 years max and then the country will collapse and resettlement can begin
Half joking, but it's that other half that has me worried
scott,
Yes, indeed you do work, and you've just been BUSTED!
All last week you were here on second shift. Today you had a shift change and showed up bright and early this morning. Then you disappeared, and took an hour off for lunch, from 12:00-1:00. I just sat here and watched. You just showed up again, right after your lunch hour. Hows that for TRANSPARENT?
'Fess up scotty, what libtard group is paying you………..?
If you can't make it to DC this Thursday, consider sponsoring someone who can go in your place! I just listened to the Glenn Beck show and buses from MN and Ohio are going! I send one organization enough to cover the cost of someone going in my place! $125! and it covered bus and hotel
Scott-
This isn't about healthcare for Pelosi. If it was, there would be one bill directly going after the problem. The fact that there have been multiple bills introduced, testing the water, then scrapped when it becomes evident that it won't pass, shows they are just trying to pass anything that will get their foot in the door of healthcare. If you believe Pelosi honestly cares about yours or my family, you are sadly mistaken.
Joe, I will not sit by as you insult the late Marty Feldman. She looks more like a badger receiving shock treatment therapy.
"at least you are trying to make sense out of a 1990 page bill, that should be reduced to no more than…"
the anti-intellectual current sweeping conservatism is absolutely shocking.
Bills on complex issues must be no more than x pages? Sarah Palin for President? No global warming? Creationism in schools?
ALmost 2000 pages! Hmm, I wonder what GARBAGE they are hiding in a document that to quote one of the imbeciles on Capitol Hill asked, "They expect us to read the bill?". By his own admission, it is too complicated, convoluded, and probably UNCONSTITUTIONAL too. TIME TO DRAIN THE SWAMP NANCY! Start with yourself, and take Maxine, Barbara, Diane, Harry, Chuck, Dick, Chris, and the rest of the clowns with you.
I hope a great many Democrats take a good hard look at how their own supposed 'speaker' views them. They are nothing but expendable pawns to be sacrificed so long as she gets what she wants -regardless of the personal price they may pay. It is so very fitting that it was a pimp and hooker setup that finally blew the lid off what is going on. Pelosi just showed here true colors for all to see, they are those of a pimp putting her boots on other lowly congresscritters so they do her bidding and enrich her evil ways.
Democrats would do themselves a huge favor if they removed her as the Speaker of the House right now.
I generally set my own hours, as long as I put in an honest 40 and exceed my deadlines I am fine.
thanks for stalking me though, crazy insane internet guy.
Agreed, kdj. The health care reform "urgency" is a scare tactic and a distraction from the real agenda.
Further evidence of Democrats kickin' ass and taking names. YEEEEHAAAAWWWW!!!:
PRISTINA, Kosovo – Thousands of ethnic Albanians braved low temperatures and a cold wind in Kosovo's capital Pristina to welcome former President Bill Clinton on Sunday as he attended the unveiling of an 11-foot (3.5-meter) statue of himself on a key boulevard that also bears his name.
Clinton is celebrated as a hero by Kosovo's ethnic Albanian majority for launching NATO's bombing campaign against Yugoslavia in 1999 that stopped the brutal Serb forces' crackdown on independence-seeking ethnic Albanians.
This is his first visit to Kosovo since it declared independence from Serbia last year.
Many waved American, Albanian and Kosovo flags and chanted "USA!" as the former president climbed on top of a podium with his poster in the background reading "Kosovo honors a hero."
Some peeked out of balconies and leaned on window sills to get a better view of Clinton from their apartment blocks.
To thunderous applause Clinton waved to the crowd as the red cover was pulled off from the statue.
The statue is placed on top of a white-tiled base, in the middle of a tiny square, surrounded by communist-era buildings.
"I never expected that anywhere, someone would make such a big statue of me," Clinton said of the gold-sprayed statue weighing a ton (900 kilograms).
He also addressed Kosovo's 120-seat assembly, encouraging them to forgive and move on from the violence of the past.
The statue portrays Clinton with his left arm raised and holding a portfolio bearing his name and the date when NATO started bombing Yugoslavia, on March. 24, 1999.
An estimated 10,000 ethnic Albanians were killed during the Kosovo crackdown and about 800,000 were forced out of their homes. They returned home after NATO-led peacekeepers moved in following 78 days of bombing.
Leta Krasniqi, an ethnic Albanian, said the statue was the best way to express the ethnic Albanians' gratitude for Clinton's role in making Kosovo a state.
"This is a big day," Krasniqi, 25 said. "I live nearby and I'm really excited that I will be able to see the statue of such a big friend of ours every day."
Clinton last visited Kosovo in 2003 when he received an honorary university degree. His first visit was in 1999 — months after some 6,000 U.S. troops were deployed in the NATO-led peacekeeping mission here.
Some 1,000 American soldiers are still based in Kosovo as part of NATO's 14,000-strong peacekeeping force.
Police in Kosovo upped security measures ahead of Bill Clinton's arrival by adding deploying more traffic police and special police.
NATO officials said the peacekeepers were also on alert, although no additional security measures were taken.
Hey, this is not democracy, this is a blatant power/revenue grab being shoved through Congress without any oversight by any congressional watchdogs that are non-partisan. Not to mention the Dems are excluding ALL Repub imput in the matter, much less their center left colleagues.
"Any informed person knows that tort reform"
agreed. as DNC chairman even said, he wanted it but the sad truth of the matter is that going up against trial lawyers AND health insurance lobby would never happen in today's environment.
too much money spread across BOTH sides of the aisle.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/conte...
If someone told me today that the country was going to be divided in two – lefties on one side, righties on the other, I'd pack my bags NOW. I prefer to live out west but I'll take whichever side the righties get. The government has gone INSANE.
Republican sponsored health care reform bills, you know, the one's that Pelosi-Reid-Obama and the lying progressives claim don't exist: H.R. 77, H.R 109, H.R.198, H.R. 270, H.R.321, H.R. 464, H.R. 502, H.R.544, H.R. 917, H.R. 1086, H.R. 1118, H.R.1441, H.R. 1458, H.R.1468, H.R.1658, H.R. 1891, H.R.2520, H.R.2607, H.R.2692, H.R.2784, H.R.2785, H.R.2787, H.R.3141, H.R.3217, H.R.3218, H.R.3356, H.R.3372, H.R.3400, H.R.3438, H.R.3454, H.R.3478. Not all of these bills are great, but several of them focus on tort reform and opening interstate commerce for insurance, and they do it in far less than 2,000 pages.
"Reps have caused most of the problems"
inaction on health care. war in iraq. biggest tax cuts in history during times of relative economic prosperity, 90% of which went to the wealthiest 1%. Medicare part D.
yup.
care to refute?
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/conte...
Oh i do for sure. I am telling you this. Partiotic Americans can no longer tolerate this corrupition in any party, Palin for president 2012 (Liberitarian). Now that new George Washington can win the Presidency stand "Reagan conservatism!"
So instead of actually doing what would FIX a lot of the problems, it's better for them to create this BOONDOGGLE that will make it worse? So you agree they should all be put in jail for treason for ALLOWING a LOBBY group to decide for them – and NOT the VOTERS – what to do?
But then you keep defending them when the do go against who they are SUPPOSE to represent and keep doing what the $$$$ lobbyists want them to?
So which is it? Do what's RIGHT even though it will be against those who give them perks? or go against those that continue to bribe them with perks and money? Which side are you arguing in this hour?
1900 pages vs. 1 sentence to address health care reform.
Tort Reform and allow consumers to purchase health insurance across state lines.
Won’t cost the American tax payers a dime and will substantially lower health care costs.
I have come to believe that our government is made up of self serving elitists who have lost all their values and common sense. It doesn’t matter which party they claim to represent…They only represent themselves and their special interest groups/lobbyists. The American people have not been their priority for many years.
"You do realize that nearly every business provided health insurance, covering over 3/4 of Americans, has annual caps on out of pocket expenses right?"
you do realize that if they lose their jobs, downsized, or become too sick to work, or have a "pre-existing condition", or denied coverage for a myriad of procedural, sometimes false, or fine print issues they lose it all right?
Medical costs are the leading cause of bankruptcies in the US. and the vast majority of those, people were happy with their health insurance until they needed it.
in other words, there's not a problem, till there's a problem.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/conte...
Hope the dimwits learn soon that Pelosi is not their friend. She is selling them down the big toilet bowl to gain only what she wants. She doesn't care what they think; only what she thinks. She is their "Boss from Hell".
With any luck, the Ol' Slickster will find himself a fat Jew girl with a blue dress, and stay in Kosovo. After Hillary, makin' bacon for Bill is as natural as breathin'…………..
stay classy, biggovernment.com
stay classy, biggovernment.com!
How about using some common sense. Why don't those people have $20k saved up in the BANK for emergencies? Did they maybe OVERSPEND in every OTHER part of their lives so that they didn't have an emergency fund?
It's pretty sad that you can't actually READ the story you keep linking and realize that it was BAD prior money decisions that CAUSED those people to have to claim bankruptcy, and NOT that "one medical" incident.
What a tool.
"treason"
nothing you describe comes close to fitting that bill, you nutcase insane internet man.
"$20k saved up in the BANK for emergencies?"
yeah. people need savings for emergencies. but the cost of a single traumatic medical event is far, far, far above most people's annual salary.
"t it was BAD prior money decisions that CAUSED"
that is simply NOT what the article states:
"For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments, and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse," said lead author Himmelstein. "Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy."
I can tell you this – I had a baby born 2 months prematurely. I think we could safely classify that as a "serious family illness", or at least a true medical emergency. My child spent some serious time in neonatal intensive care, and the total cost was in the neighborhood of $150,000. And guess what? My insurance paid everything but our deductible.
So, in my case, the insurance we work hard to pay for did exactly what it was supposed to do – paid for our medical emergency without bankrupting us. Why don't we focus on reforms that would allow that to happen for everyone rather than the garbage congress is spewing?
Scott z….do you really believe the government can run an efficient health care program? They cannot even run the programs they have now without massive fraud. Thanks, but no thanks…I don’t want my hard earned money going to any more government ran programs…I’ll save for my emergencies.
She actually looks more and more like Martin Short http://rookery2.viary.com/storagev12/886000/88600...
Better check your facts on that study you keep touting!
"The statistic that we think is most reliable is the percentage of people who say medical bills were the reason for their bankruptcy, and that number is 29 percent."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statement...
Obama’Care’? No.
Health CONTROL — that is his goal.
Medical emergencies having an effect on personal bankruptcy is a far cry from "every single person" being one illness away from bankruptcy. A does NOT equal B.
Try a little logic next time.
Someone check "Scott Z's" IP address. I think he is writing from Pelosi's office.
read the article and the study. indeed, nearly every single American of near average income, with average savings, is one catastrophic illness away from bankruptcy.
that's precisely what the study finds. try a little reading next time.
"Do the "so called" Progressives even think of opening the state borders to sell Insurance across state lines? "
1) that would create a run to the lowest common denominator of care. Just like all credit card companies are found in one zip code in NJ, all health insurance co's would run to the state that is most favorable to THEIR terms… i.e. least favorable to you and I, the consumer. that's a bad thing for us.
2) that would also easily exhaust the pool of healthy consumers. You'd have "tier 1" insurance for healthy 18-35 year olds, and non competitive, expensive, and spotty coverage for the elderly, and sick.
scott… so end the lesson you immature, googler, electronic game kid….instead of studying about history…….. you played some bullshit electronic grab ass game…..now you are finding out just what life for real is all about. did you see how easy you were found out……
"QUALITY OF LIFE"
europe dominates in most studies I can find.
That was funny……….
scott shot up you never had a job long enough to get health insurance,the $20k.BS, your lucking to have 20 bucks from your mommy, yea scott we know you still live with mommy……
the worst bill ever from the Worst Politician ever…
Sounds like symmetry to us. Perhaps even the San Francisco Gay Mafia will even be hurt by this abomination.
At some point even the Kool Aid connoseurs of the Bay Area will spit this particulalry noxious bureaucrat out.
You neve know…
Pretty obvious, wouldn't you say so? Patently transparent. He left quick,,,,,,,,,,
Huh?
You meanie you scared him!!!!! he he he
Yeah, Scott_Z appears to suffer from the same intellectual disabilities as Liberty666
I can copy and paste other people's ideas all day long too…But what's the point?
Liberals don't want individuals to be individuals…
I wonder,
somewhere, smack in the middle of the 1,990 page Health Care Bill, say at about page 995 is there a Centerfold of Nancy Pelosi, using this picture as art?
Oh hey Scott! That is as opposed to…?
You really, really love government don’t you Scott, why? What’s in it for you?
Sigh… once again Scott-
"The statistic that we think is most reliable is the percentage of people who say medical bills were the reason for their bankruptcy, and that number is 29 percent."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statement...
Propaganda
Yes, I believe we need to reform the Tort Laws that cause the high medical costs.
Not to say that Govt. Mandated health Care is Illegal. The Govt. can try but can't force us to purchase health Ins.
Hahahhaha
Are you SURE you want to try and claim that the WHO UN Health Care Quality of Life report? Are you sure? I'm going to be nice and let you answer that before I have to inform you of some of the things they had to throw in there to make the USA look bad, and other countries look better. I'll let you go research first.
Newsweek article is Propaganda
BRAVO!! I was a young pregnant woman that chose NOT to accept welfare 36 years ago because it was MY RESPONSIBILITY to take care of my actions and life. My parents raised all 11 of their children to either work or go without!
Some young kid ran a red light 6 years ago and now I'm the one paying for his wreckless actions. At 47, many people told me to go on Social Security Disability but I refused! Some days are more painful than others but I am still capable of working. I can't see why so many lazy people can't get off their azz and get to work and be held accountable for their own life.
OMG, is this going to be your link for the rest of the day?
Thanks to getting to that for me I had to study.
It wasn't the $5,000 I spent on plasma tvs or the mortgage I can barely afford or the new car every two years that got me in trouble is was those darn medical bills. Nancy must save me!
Wall Street, DC strikes again
Nazi Piglosi is a female impersonation of a human being—she can kiss my ASStroturf—she softens the bluntness of her lies by confusing the issues and entwining quibbling equivocations that have more then one meaning, so as to seem to say one thing, but intend another.
She endlessly misleads any of her inquistors by making unreliable statement of facts and insincere announcements—in all honesty, has there ever been an individual, who has held such a powerful position and generated so much revulsion towards herself—this vituperate WARLOCK and her condemanatory communicating, stems from a personality of utter worthlessness on the human scale of values—her pitiable deficiencies define her wretchedness and sordidness and absence for moral principles.
Nature is not perfect—-the perverse wonder of nature is that the very mechanisms that create the incredible beauty and diversity in the living world guarantee monstrosity and death—the malformation of Nazi Piglosi—deviating form the norm is an excessively bad and schocking example of one of those monstrosities.
"If you think graduate students will go into a profession only guaranteeing them an "exsistance.""
yet they manage to do so in every other industrialized nation… including… socialized EUROPE!
Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises.
different studies will have different interpretations.
even using your own interpretation, nearly one third of all bankruptcies in the United States are a result of medical bills. and if you and others say 87% of people have health insurance they are happy with- well, there is a disconnect here, is there not?
Do you find this acceptable, or would you say this is a broken system?
till it sinks in, maybe.
just like fox news: entertainment!
It's sunk in, we already know you're an idiot.
ScottZ:
With all due respect, have you asked yourself why the people who are supposed to vote on this bill are exempt from having to take part in the actual system they claim is the best solution for the country? If most of the country is one catastrophic illness away from financial ruin, wouldn't Congress be subject to this statistic as well? Why would they want to put their families at risk by participating in a system that they claim has failed so many?
This summer was an eye opener for many Americans as they came face to face with the outright contempt and disrespect shown by people who took an oath to serve. The blatant arrogance was staggering. Can you think of anyone you know that could openly brag about not doing their job or complain about not being paid extra for taking the time to talk to the people who put them in that position and still keep that job? Unfortunately, the only ones I know that are doing that are going to vote on a measure for millions of families without fear of consequence of having to deal with same system for their families. Borrowing from the President, maybe their "mops" would do a better job if they had to use the same floor as everyone else.
Our Health CARE is the best in the WORLD.
The PAYING for it has been off since good ol' Teddy Kennedy got the Guvment involved with his first HMO bill.
You don't seem to get that it's UNACCEPTABLE for ANY Gubment entity to TELL me I have to do something or they will FINE me/JAIL me. There sure is a disconnect here, it's between your chair and keyboard (and most all of the House, Senate and WH too).
You make the most important POINT, yet nobody is beating that drum. If, it is good for US, then it must be good for THEM. It cannot be both ways. It either IS, or IS NOT.
Blatant arrorgance? CONtempt? CONgress?
You got it figured out…….
I think you must have ignored everything I said in my post. The DNC is "going up against trial lawyers" you said. On the contrary, they dems (and probably a lot of GOPers as well) are protecting the interests of the trial lawyers. Howard Dean admitted it and you can read all about it for yourself using the link I provided.
You then mention the insurance lobby not allowing it to happen. This is exactly what is wrong with our current system. The only power the lobbyists have is to bribe the representatives. Really, who gives a flying f*ck what the insurance lobbyists have to say? Any representative who takes a lobbyists position over what is best for the constituents should be stomped out of office!
Scott, your thinking is backwards and illogical.
From above……
."The spending surge. The Congressional Budget Office figures the House program will cost $1.055 trillion over a decade, which while far above the $829 billion net cost that Mrs. Pelosi fed to credulous reporters is still a low-ball estimate."
A fantastic visual illustration of what $ 1 Trillion dollars in cash looks like can be found on this website….(BTW, its not mine…)
http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/calculations.ht...
My math shows 10,000 pallets with $100 million per pallet, with each pallet being 42 inches wide, lined up side-by-side, would be just over 6.6 miles of pallets…..that's $1 Trillion dollars of $100 dollar bills…
Is their any way to drive this home to everyone? Can you say…."more than a dime"? Can you say "inflation"?
Because they have no other alternative, other than to come to the USA. I've talked to many health care professionals from abroad, The bottom line is, they come here to make a better living and have more freedom of choice. Period. How many doctors are leaving the USA to go to Europe or Canada so they can work in socialized medicine?
Scott, I know you get your jollies from tweaking the good folk over here at BigG, but how does a software engineer, graduate from VT become a devout government loving liberal? What are you going to get from the government that you can’t do for yourself? How will your life change if the government takes over healthcare? Are you an American?
I didn't write the prophetic song "dude looks like a lady" he did
So I guess you've changed stances on the whole "every person reading this is one illness away from bankruptcy" statement, and now you're on the "what if you lose your job" statement.
It sounds an awful lot to me, even from your arguments, like the problem is JOBS! This HC plan, stimulus, and certainly the Cap & Trade are HORRIBLE for job creation, and as far as Cap & Trade, everyone involved openly admits it will cause significant job reduction. Why don't we fix the problem instead of pointing over and over again at the "right thing to do" regardless of the fact that it will make the problem worse?
Back in the day, when someone got sick and couldn't work, family and friends helped them out. I know that's still the case in my family. It's sad that there are so many people out there that want to teach people to be dependent on people they don't know instead of promoting hard work and helping your friend/family when they need it.
Plenty of people have needed their insurance, and taken them up on it and live another day. Many who declare bankruptcy get to live another day and start over again. They don't die in a gutter as you seem to imply. People who declare bankruptcy in this country end up in better condition than the vast majority of lower class in the vast majority of other countries. I grew up poor and have no clue how anyone can justify my situation growing up as inhumane or awful. It sucked, but I went to school, as all of our lower class has the opportunity to do, and I got good grades, and now I make enough to be proud of what I've done.
First, this isn't MY interpretation. It is Politifact's interpretation. What is the percentage within that 29% who had health insurance throughout their bankruptcy?
29% of bankruptcies is not a majority.
A warning to all you politicians in DC. The moment you willingly vote contrary to the will of the people you will have committed treason. Government by the people and FOR THE PEOPLE. We the people, despite what you think, are meant, according to our constitution, to govern ourselves. You're duty is to represent, not determine, the will of those in your districts and states. When you seek to undermine that trust you are guilty of perjury and must be held to account. We will no longer stand idly by as you run roughshod over the citizens of this great nation. Your continued attempts to subvert this nation will not go unchallenged nor with the outcome be favorable to you.
GOD BLESS YOU LINDA!!! I bought my first house at 21 and had some seizures. The first one totalled my paid off chrysler, see I have had a job since 14, I bough my own first car, paid for my own insurance, everything. I even helped pay some house and car notes for my folks. Then three trips to the emergency room for extended stay and seeing specialists got me 2 choices. 1 disability NO WAY! So #2 don't work. That turned into 13 months with no work. I lost my house because I refused to become a parasite on patriotic taxpayers. So I am biting my tongue and some days are ok and some are rough. This is rich by the way, i just got done registering.
First, it was "Every single person reading this is one serious family illness away from bankruptcy." Now, it's "NEARLY every American is one CATASTROPHIC illness away from bankruptcy."
Your claims aren't even consistent. How are you supposed to have any intelligent debate with someone who keeps changing their story?
Besides, as I mentioned before, my average income family with average savings and average health insurance DID have a catastrophic medical emergency with bills adding up to over $150,000. My insurance covered everything beyond our $1000 yearly deductible. I'm speaking from personal experience.
Besides, just because one article or study makes an assertion doesn't make it fact. And if I'm having to explain THAT to you, then there really is no point in even attempting to have a discussion. Hope you got paid well for your time here.
"Our Health CARE is the best in the WORLD. "
that … is… simply…not… true!
by what standards? we die earlier, are bankrupt more often as a result of the current system, and for all that, we get to pay significantly more!
Exactly, raise taxes to save money. Typical liberal bs…when was the last time that the liberals actually decreased taxes? Bush at least sent stimulus checks to American people and not to foreign prostitutes, foreign sea turtles, car companies, Acorn, and all the other special interest groups. If you think I am lying just read the stimulus bill. YOU LIE!!!!
"29% of bankruptcies is not a majority."
health costs are the *leading cause* of bankruptcies. there are others, divorce, job loss, irresponsible spending… but health costs are the #1 primary cause of bankruptcies in the US. as in, the most common of all causes.
"and now you're on the "what if you lose your job" statement"
nope. i stand by my earlier.
you crack me up! you've just leapt from "Every single person reading this is one serious family illness away from bankruptcy." to "…nearly every single American of near average income, with average savings, and the average health insurance plan is one catastrophic illness away from bankruptcy."
From "every single person" to 'well, kinda sorta, almost everybody, who is of more or less average means, etc…" -whoa, that was a pretty damn big adjustment in your argument there, spanky. if you keep doing stuff like that, i'm afraid we're going to have to insist you install one of those beeping alarms like they have on big trucks, so nobody suffers a catastrophic injury and goes bankrupt from your backpedaling.
as i said above, thanks for making it so easy to weed you out as someone who is not to be taken seriously.
"How will your life change if the government takes over healthcare"
more hard working Americans will have coverage.
that is right. I'm not in it *just* for me. I'm not *just* looking out for #1. I believe access to health care is a fundamental right for all Americans. I believe in a strong country that looks out for each other.
"Are you an American? "
are you calling me UN-American?
Good grief – some simple math:
300,000,000 people in the US.
About 25% are under 18, so now you have 225,000,000 adults.
87% of those are happy with their health insurance = 195,750,000
Personal bankruptcies are at about 1 million a year (Particularly last year.)
Even using your statistic of 62%, that's only 620,000.
Less than a million that you claim are bankrupt due to bad health insurance, compared to over 195 million who are happy with their insurance.
Do I think people should go bankrupt because of health issues? OF COURSE NOT. But screwing up the coverage for nearly 200 million who are satisfied with their coverage while not actually resolving the problem doesn't help.
"I believe access to health care is a fundamental right for all Americans."
See, that's where you are wrong. Please show us the part of the Constitution that says that. We'll be waiting a LONG time, because it's NOT THERE. That's the part YOU DON'T GET.
Just because you "want" something that "sounds good", doesn't make it all of the sudden a "right".
So all those other people from around world come HERE to get the best treatments must be wrong? Why would they come HERE and not to to where it's best? Can you answer that?
Really, I'm being SERIOUS Here. Why do they come here? If a person has the $$$$ to come to the US to get health care, wouldn't they go where it's the best?
Which, according to you, isn't here, but somewhere else.
(Think before you answer: because I can look out the window right here and see the City of Hospitals of the Texas Medical Center in Houston, TX, and you're telling me that the THOUSANDS of people come here to NOT get the best? There must be a LOT of stupid people coming HERE and not where the best is.)
Princess Pelosi frequently talks about be willing to sacrifice seats to get the bill passed. . .I have a challenge for her.
Why don't you "put some skin in the game" and offer to step down from your Speaker position if your take-over plan is not passed?
nope just did had to do some work there. gotta pay the bills, LOL!
"28.3 percent of bankruptcies were attributed to illness or injury alone. That number grew to 46.2 percent when researchers asked about additional factors such as unpaid medical bills, lost income due to illness, or the mortgage of a home to pay medical bills."
surely you jest. you want to exclude all that and still think you are being intellectually honest here?
I call you out.
"28.3 percent of bankruptcies were attributed to illness or injury alone. That number grew to 46.2 percent when researchers asked about additional factors such as unpaid medical bills, lost income due to illness, or the mortgage of a home to pay medical bills."
surely you jest. you want to exclude all that and still think you are being intellectually honest here?
I call you out.
"So you agree they should all be put in jail for treason"
"The DNC is "going up against trial lawyers" you said."
i specifically stated that he said that going after trial lawyers AND health lobby at the same time would sink any measure.
as in, *nobody* is going after them because it would be too big of a fight.
nope. sorry. happy home owner here, gainfully employed.
why you need to hate like that i do not know.
"The number rose to 62 percent when people were asked if medical-related issues such as unpaid medical bills, lost income due to illness, or the mortgage of a home to pay medical bills contributed to their bankruptcy."
you are being intellectually dishonest (at best) and a low down dirty liar at worst by throwing the 29% quote around without including the 62% figure.
i googled "WHO UN Health Care Quality of Life" all i could find was this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/05/world/m...
US was 13 behind nearly all of "socialist" europe
i googled "WHO UN Health Care Quality of Life" all i could find was this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/05/world/m...
US was 13 behind nearly all of "socialist" europe
So you can't answer the question, just quote me?
"If a person has the $$$$ to come to the US to get health care, wouldn't they go where it's the best? "
all that means is it's the best if you have millions of $$$$ to throw around. most Americans do not.
"First, this isn't MY interpretation. It is Politifact's interpretation"
it is an intellectually dishonest excerpt from politifacts interpretation. the article continues:
"The number rose to 62 percent when people were asked if medical-related issues such as unpaid medical bills, lost income due to illness, or the mortgage of a home to pay medical bills contributed to their bankruptcy."
195,750,000 are happy with their coverage till they get sick and are denied coverage, lose their job and therefore their coverage as a result of extended illness, denied or delayed treatment because of illegial or misleading fine print, etc…
in short, all 225,000,000 are fine till there is a problem.
But didn't you just say we aren't the best? Are we the best or are we not the best?
Can you even actually RESPOND to anything without making stuff up and actually ANSWERING the post you're responding to? Please point to ANYWHERE in my post where I said they had to have "Millions of $$$$". (we know you can't, so we anxiously await your next inane response that has nothing to do with the post you are replying to)
Define hard working?
I’m not okay with subsidizing a drug addled welfare brood mare who drops out of school in the 9th or 10th grade, dropping five children with five different daddies. What about consequences for poor choices?
How do you dissuade poor behavior?
No, you’re a confused American. I’m assuming that you are American by faux indignation. How can a free American be so in love with government?
It's in the Declaration of Independence. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
Also, in the Constitution, Ninth Amendment. It states that rights are not restricted because they are not specifically covered in the Constitution. So health care need not be specifically mentioned if we provide that it is a universal right to receive medical treatment when ill.
LOL, really that's "all you could find".
You're google must be broken then. You keep claiming all these reports:
"…most studies I can find.".
But you NEVER link them. So link them. We know you aren't going to because then everyone here will know where you get your BAD studies that include things like Combat deaths in Afganistan, gang shootings and car accidents deaths as a mark against our health care here in the US.
is that not the correct study? if it is incorrect, please provide the link. but this clearly shows the US behind the pack.
and i do include links whenever possible. for example, the study backing my claim that 62% of all personal bankruptcies are medical related.
That has to be the stupidest thing you've posted today:
The Ninth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
You notice that last part – RETAINED BY THE PEOPLE. It doesn't say "retained by the Government". That doesn't mean that the Government has MORE rights not mentioned – it means the government actually has LESS than they think they do. Yes, it's been abused in these last 50 years (which clearly is the extend of your knowledge of the Constitution) by the Politician AND the Court, just like the 14th has been.
And then we have the 10th Amendment which completes that thought:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people.
I really don't think you wanna go down this road of thought here, because I'm not the only one who will shoot your argument full of holes – and it shows even further your lack of knowledge on even MORE subjects.
"'ve talked to many health care professionals from abroad,"
so have i.they come here for the world class education. and many return home after.
health care, a right attached to the PEOPLE, not the gov't.
and so there is nothing unconstitutional about the gov't providing them with it if the free market fails to do so. which it has.
that makes the rest of your post meaningless.
"What about consequences for poor choices? "
ummm… a tragically unfulfilled life?
well, they did force you to either buy car insurance or pay a fine.
Then what?
[...] taxes. So that the CONgress can setup social security, medicare, medicaid…and all the … Go to Source Related Posts:Health Care Reform – "Dropping the O-Bomb-a" – or why we all want HCR – [...]
Latest House Health Care Bill Contains Verification Process that
Raises Concerns
Last Thursday, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) introduced the latest
version of the House health care bill, The Affordable Health Care for
America Act (H.R. 3962). FAIR had raised concerns about a previous
version of this bill (H.R. 3200) due to its lack of a verification
mechanism to ensure that illegal aliens would be unable to obtain
taxpayer-funded health care benefits under the bill.
Read the full article
http://www.fairus.org/site/R?i=YR61XjjAtzB1SRZnN1...
"one article or study makes an assertion doesn't make it fact"
I will take the study's sample size of thousands over your "first hand experience" which has a sample size of one, to be the reality.
do you know what "sample size" means and it's scientific and logical relevance? how you could dismiss a peer reviewed study involving many different cases and scenarios for your own single episode of first hand experience is shockingly ignorant.
there is no logical inconsistency there. look at the income and wealth distribution for the united states
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_I...
we're pretty much all average these days. except for the few percent at the very top.
Wow. That's such an intelligent argument – everything is fine until there is a problem.
Well, there IS a problem. The problem is that Congress is trying to pass a bill that would cost untold amounts of money, cut funding to seniors through Medicare, cut funding to Medicaid while supposedly expanding coverage, limit the amount of money that can be put pre-tax in medical flex-spending accounts, tax you for any month you don't have approved coverage, tax employers if they don't provide coverage (which would prevent me as a small business owner from being able to hire any new employees in the forseeable future), create an ENORMOUS new government bureaucracy that would determine what constitutes "qualified" health care plans and what those plans will cover, prohibit insurers from charging higher premiums to smokers or others with poor health habits – requiring the healthy and responsible to subsidize those costs, include coverage to illegal aliens or anyone else who can find a way to sneak into our country, all the while never accounting for how to pay or end fraud.
(cont.)
Costs will go up, options will be limited, access to care will decrease, ratio of patients to doctors will increase, and gov't will limit how much those doctors are paid. Many have said that if this comes about they will retire, so we can add doctor shortages to our list of complaints.
If someone could explain to me how ruining healthcare for every 195 out of 200 people could be justified for the sake of the 5, I'd like to hear how.
It really is hilarious how you don't address the key issues in anyone's posts – you pick one statement out of context and just sling insults.
You can't even quote your study consistently – you keep changing your assertions. The study you keep talking about is addressing health issues pertaining to personal bankruptcies. You're talking about a situation that affects a maximum of 0.3% of the population, and then a percentage of that 0.3%. Having never declared bankruptcy, my first hand experience is irrelevant to that issue.
It IS relevant, however, to your claim that "Every single person reading this is one serious family illness away from bankruptcy." We had a serious family illness, and no bankruptcy. Your claim is disproved.
You can mix up pieces of people's posts to try to feel intellectually superior and witty as you spew insults, but I'm done wasting time with you. There's a saying I'm fond of – "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it."
Night-night, little piggy. (Or should I say paid agitator?)
If medical debts of less than $18,000 (per your link) forced families into bankruptcy, then they weren't that far away.
Also, as you note, the study states that 78% of those forced into bankruptcy HAD insurance. So, Obamacare won't really do anything to help families like that.
I'm also curious as to how many of the other 22% could have afforded health insurance, but chose not to purchase it… and if the $9,000 (average) difference would have kept them above water.
Not according to your link.
Incorrect.
I neither have car insurance, nor am I fined by the government for this.
This woman is pure evil! she's a true blue blood! an elitists! and a racist! She acts like she fell and hit her head sometime in the past. maybe we should all chip in and get her safety helmet. Like the other thieves in washington she's crafted a bill that is so conveluted she doesn't know exactly what she wrote! Nut she did make sure protect the group that gives her the largest amount of campaign funds or rather bribes- the trial lawyers! she gave them cartblanch to steal form the system making everyone health care more expensive and in retuirn she will get millions of dollars in campaign bribes! She made sure that Illegal immigarnts got covered in exchange for campaign bribes once again. she has gone so far as to call our laws stupid while addressing Larasa-the same peole who are bigots and racists- Larasa means "the race"- so that they will give her money and have the illegals vote for her after Acorn registers them illegally. Impeach this assho***. Prosecute her for treason as she has done huge amounts of damage to our country all in the quest of more and more money! Your Money! Wake Up America!
This font is really easy on the eyes. I wish I could say the same about "Stretch" Pelosi's face.
OMG, is this going to be your link for the rest of the day?
Parrots can only say a few things. Over and over and over and over…
Pelosi is ready to lose seats in 2010? Mighty big of her considering she comes from one of the most liberal districts and will probably only lose her seat if he fails to pass a plan. Wonder if the people sitting in those seats she is willing to lose are equally ready to lose and willing to fall on the sword for her? What a peach she is.
Wow the Pelosi photo alone says it all. THIS WOMAN IS SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trailer – Fall of the Republic: The Presidency of Barack Obama
03:13 – 2 months ago
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if you do happen to own a car, driving that car without car insurance is one of the most pathetic things you can possibly do. not for what happens to your car,but what you could do to someone else's car. or their health.
this is me personally passing judgment on you. And you deserving it.
I don't drive. So go ahead and pass judgment on me.
I'll assume that when you stated I am "forced" to buy car insurance or pay a fine, that you're merely expressing your ignorance.
you apparently need it to drive
"Changes were made to ensure that vehicles driven on California roads have liability insurance that provides financial responsibility for any damage or injury caused by a traffic accident, regardless of fault, and to remove uninsured vehicles from the highways."
"Mandatory vehicle registration financial responsibility requirements"
"Notify DMV before you cancel your insurance to prevent a vehicle registration suspension"
"Types of financial responsibility
"* A motor vehicle liability insurance policy
"* A cash deposit of $35,000 with DMV
"* A DMV issued self-insurance certificate
"* A surety bond for $35,000 from a company licensed to do business in California. "
IT IS ABOUT CONTROL!!!!
OBAMACARE
President Barack Hussein Obama wants to overhaul the nations healthcare system, because of the so-called 50 million uninsured Americans, and stated he is open to requiring all Americans to buy health insurance. (What about the illegal immigrants?) The estimated costs would be $1.5 trillion over the next ten years. When asked about the costs he had no new solutions to that problem except to say he’d cut costs through such measures as managing chronic diseases and avoiding unnecessary tests and hospital readmissions. Sounds like rationing care and controlling lifestyle to me.
Obama wants it to be done by October. What he is saying is, Let’s hurry up and get this thing done before the people realize what this is all about and that is “Control.” The loss of freedom, you will be told what you can do, what you can eat etc. because it will be tied to healthcare…
..Professor Stuart Altman of Brandeis University attended the hearings in the Senate Finance Committee on health-care reform and he reluctantly stated why waste money on in depth treatment for people who won’t live long anyway? In other words he is saying old people go home and die.
President Obama appointed Dr. Thomas Frieden as director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Obama stated Frieden has been a leader in the fight for healthcare reform, and he led the campaign to ban smoking and trans-fats from New York City restaurants. He has been in at the forefront of the fight against heart disease, cancer, and obesity, infectious diseases such as tuberculosis and AIDS, and in the establishment of electronic health records. Making it easier to keep tabs on people and thus control their lives, (no soda or sugary foods for you).
To pay for Obamacare he wants to put the squeeze on doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceuticals. Taxes on beer, wine, liquor, and tobacco would go up. Soda and other sugary drinks and cereals would also be taxed because they lead to obesity. The idea behind the proposed increases is to tax lifestyle choices that contribute to rising medical costs. Controlling our lives!!….
…Government run Social Security and Medicare are going bankrupt. We do not need the government to run the healthcare system.
The United States has the greatest healthcare system in the world. Sure it needs to be fine-tuned but we do not need socialized medicine or universal healthcare (Obamacare). I urge everyone to contact their representatives in government and have them oppose this government takeover of the healthcare system.
Greg Zotta
Skeeter- typical of trolls that 'create' the position without facts – SZ disappears as soon as you called him on the carpet.
SZ – Do you know the difference between an apple and an orange?
The life expectancy ratings are not comparative. For starters, the US has the highest murder rate of the G30. Other countries do not consider an infant death in the first 18 months in the data, but the US does. We have the crappiest diet of all advanced countries. Etc Etc.
Tell me how these factors are related to health care?
And tell me how the LE rate matches up with the survival rate of a) premature births, b) prostate cancer, c) breast cancer, and a whole list of others where the US is number 1 or near number 1? That's a healthcare issue, and it shows we have the best healthcare in the world.
I oppose government health care to the point that I'll go to another country to get private health care. The problem is my mom won't go, so I need to stay here and protect her from government-controlled health care. I don't know how, but I will protect her, no matter the cost.
[...] from Lawsuits and Let Your Voice Be Heard on Health Care: A Message From Rep. Mike Pence and Pelosi Health Care Bill: The Worst Bill Ever The Powers That Be: Obamacare: The More You’re Fined, the Cheaper It’ll Be Brian Darling, Big [...]
[...] from Lawsuits and Let Your Voice Be Heard on Health Care: A Message From Rep. Mike Pence and Pelosi Health Care Bill: The Worst Bill Ever Sister Toldjah: Health care “reform” goes to vote in the House (UPDATE 2: BILL SQUEAKS BY HOUSE [...]
[...] from Lawsuits and Let Your Voice Be Heard on Health Care: A Message From Rep. Mike Pence and Pelosi Health Care Bill: The Worst Bill Ever Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion: First Take On House Passage Sister Toldjah: Health care “reform” [...]
[...] from Lawsuits and Let Your Voice Be Heard on Health Care: A Message From Rep. Mike Pence and Pelosi Health Care Bill: The Worst Bill Ever Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion: First Take On House Passage Sister Toldjah: Health care “reform” [...]
[...] Additional reading: NRO: Is It Possible the Wrong Guy Was Sworn In on NY-23? Gateway Pundit: Dem Bill Owens Takes 1 Hour to Break 4 Campaign Promises and House Democrats Will Vote to Take Over Nation’s Health Care System Today and Mark Levin Will Join Michelle Bachmann at Capital Steps Rally- Noon Thursday Michelle Malkin: Liveblogging: The new Imperial Congress votes on Pelosicare; Update: Female Democrats turn House resolution process into circus and March on Washington: Stop the government health care takeover and Abortion remains the Obamacare sticking point…for House Dems Free Republic: Owens Breaks 4 Campaign Promises in First Hour In Congress Dr. David Janda, Big Government: Debate on PelosiCare: Crunch Time Tonight in DC Lux Libertas: Congressmen breaks four promises in first hour in Congress The Reaganite Republican: Giving It to ‘em with Both Barrels Fox News: Republicans Rally Resistance to Health Care Bill, as House Vote Nears Frugal Café Blog Zone: Clarion Call to Arms: Tea Party Anti-ObamaCare Alert: March on Washington This Thursday, Nov. 5 (video) and 2,000-Page Nightmare: Newest Version of ObamaCare Is Shocking, “Crown Jewel of Socialism” Will Ravage America (video) Brian Darling, Big Government: Historic PelosiCare Debate Starts Right Now Nice Deb: Video: Judge Napolitano Warns Michele Bachmann That Nancy Pelosi May “Make Things Difficult” For Folks Coming To DC Rally and Tea Party Alert: Anti-ObamaCare March On Washington This Thursday Publius, Big Government: Pelosi’s Gift to Insurance Companies: Immunity from Lawsuits and Let Your Voice Be Heard on Health Care: A Message From Rep. Mike Pence and Pelosi Health Care Bill: The Worst Bill Ever [...]
For health care reform information that is diverse, unique, and less polarized you might want to check out: http://www.ourblook.com/component/option,com_se…..
There are interviews and dialogues with 26 different medical professionals and health care professionals alike who offer diverse perspectives regarding the health care debate.
Is it true that Nancy’s family business is based out of Guam? How many employees dose she have? What kind of healthcare does the give their employee’s? I wonder what the tax rates are on Guam? What kind of wage dose she pay her employees. Is she there because she can get away with
low taxes, low wages and zero health care?
[...] the original post: » Pelosi Health Care Bill: The Worst Bill Ever – Big Government Share and [...]
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