The Perversion of Honest Law Making: The Slippery Slope that Lies Ahead
by Of Thee I Sing 1776As we write this short essay, we are being promised by Nancy Pelosi that the health care bill will be posted online so that we and those who will “deem” it already to have been enacted can actually read it. This online posting has been repeatedly postponed so that the Congressional Budget Office could score it for its 10-year cost. That exercise, which went on behind closed doors, has been tainted by secret deals, and new stealth taxes slipped in at the last minute without disclosure or debate and are based on assumptions provided by the House leadership which the CBO is required to follow. Only this weekend will the 535 members of Congress and the American people be given an opportunity to see what is in the surprise package consisting of over 2700 pages of text. They will have 72 hours to read it before they “deem” it to be the law of the land. Presumably, they have completed the Evelyn Woods speed-reading course. We believe that millions of Americans will “deem” those Members of Congress who actually participate in this farce to be unworthy of further service. Of course, they, unlike their Congresspersons, will actually have to vote.

We make no secret about our negative view of this legislation as bad public policy. But something far more important is at work here. We would rather have the House pass the bill in normal fashion even if only by a tiny margin (as they did with their first version in November 2009) and have it properly enacted into law, than to use trickery and deceit to get their way.
The Democrats in Congress point at the Republicans and say “they did it before” as if that justifies this kind of corruption of process. Leave aside that no one can cite any previous example of the use of such a combination of trickery and deceit to pass a major piece of legislation; instead let’s focus on where this country is headed. For their part the Republicans seem to be enjoying this debacle on the Hill, licking their chops awaiting this fall’s Congressional elections. For what reason? Is it just to get back in power for the purposes of payback?
The whole situation is beyond what commentators call gridlock or extreme partisanship. This is nothing less than a major erosion of the trust in the foundation upon which the American form of government rests. Will we have any bedrock principle of governance left upon which we can rely?
At this very time in history, we can see elsewhere what happens if the rule of law is subjugated to the will of those in control of governing. Look at the never ending cycle of democratic governments giving way to despots in many of the nations of Latin America. Take note of how in an economically successful China, an all-powerful controlling class can, by hiding the truth from its citizenry, keep over a billion people from the enjoyment of personal freedom. What has immunized us from this kind of despotism? We can point to the genius of our Founders and the experiment in constitutional government they created in Philadelphia. But the Constitutions is only words. Our system has endured because for over two centuries the American people have had faith that their elected representatives understood their obligation to carry out the expressed will of the people. That is what we know as “trust” and that trust is disappearing before our eyes.
Our leaders should pay attention to the words of our 35th president, John F. Kennedy who famously said “We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies and competitive values, for a nation that is afraid to let its people judge truth and falsehood in an open market, is a nation that is afraid of its own people.” If we do not follow that advice, we might never get back the precious trust upon which freedom and democracy rest, which is steadily slipping through our fingers. Once it is gone it will be difficult, if not impossible to ever restore.






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Madame Pelosi pledged to "drain the swamp."
Instead, what she has done, is bastardize the legislation process, to the point it is unrecognizable. By the time she is through, we will be the laughingstock of the entire world, and our Congress will have all the legitimacy of a Banana Republic, or worse, Rhodesia………..
Well kids, it's "we the people" but we have to enforce the constiution. It really is us against them.
It seems "the swamp" is now under the protection of the EPA as wetlands refuge for the lilly livered legislator. A truly endangered species.
Anyone remember this famous blast from the past?
It is turning out to be prophetic.
Oct. 04, 2008
President Bush: "This sucker is going down."
Unfortunately, little did we know, that it would be America itself, and not the stock market.
Outta the swamp and straight into the cesspool.
And like all dictators – the first thing to go is the constitution. Venezuela here we come!
Viva Hugo !
Viva Fidel !
Viva Barrack !
Long live the King.
If the congress of the united states were to honestly pass a constitutional single payer system, then that's the law.
I don't agree with it, but that's now the law.
However this is not a law if it was passed with bribery, partisan tactics, lies, deceit, and unconstitutional trickery. It is a backdoor single payer system meant to annex the healthcare system and bankrupt political opponents. It should clue us in to the tactics Democrats used to get elected in the first place, were the politicians put in place through legal means?
Now without a filibuster-proof majority, they resort to reconciliation. That's illegal, since it breaks the senate rules.
Then they use "deem and pass", that's unconstitutional.
But the bill itself is unconstitutional, you cannot force people to purchase something as a requirement of citizenship.
That's a big problem, and it won't go away. Also, it forces religious people to pay taxes for other's abortions.
'And this is what elections are for'.
Barack Hussein Obama
They ought to fill that swamp with the delta smelt.
Or piranha's.
Maybe even alligators.
Repubs are pretty good at promoting doomsday scenarios that will never actually occur. I'd like to see something the Repubs do that actually helps this country once in a while.
One thing we can thank the Repubs for is that 7 years ago today their President of the US, Dubya Bush, started the war in Iraq. 5,000 US killed and 30,000 wounded. 100,000 Iraq civilians killed and 1$ Trillion US dollars spent on a country that is still in total shambles and can go to complete anarchy at any moment.
Mission accomplished!
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
~ Thomas Jefferson ~
From the smallest village's council, to the Congress of the U.S., if there is not openness and integrity, there is corruption and evilness.
“The Constitution/Bill of Rights!” A binding contract from the Founders to the future. Our challenge is to leave it as we found it, so our children and grandchildren can grow and prosper in the greatest country since the dawning of civilization, the USA!
Yep.. We are on the proverbial BOBSLED to hell….
[...] Read the rest. [...]
And…. "When the electorate discovers they can vote themselves money, it is the end of the Republic"….
Tell me where to send the gators, CL…. I have more than a few spares…heh…heh..heh…
Our country is going down faster than a $10 hooker.
Or my ex-wife on the neighbors…ahhahahahahaha
See how you all are?
Try as you might, you just couldn't leave Monica out of this discussion………
Iraq is starting to look more like a free republic than our country. I guess all those who voted "against" Bush really wanted a dictator- like B Hussein O.
You can change your sign on anon, but we know it's you.
Did you have to copy and past that from DailyKos? or did you type it out yourself?
Can we "deem" these corrupt members of Congress to already be voted out of office and just give them the boot now?
I mean, if they don't have to follow the Constitution, why should we? Just throw them out now.
"This is nothing less than a major erosion of the trust in the foundation upon which the American form of government rests."
I agree but this has been going on all our lives. It was going on at the founding… which is why, by design, limited government is the only way we survive. I was always the a-hole at the Thanksgiving table talking over coffee about how the commies have infiltrated our schools and government while my extended family thought I needed medication! I take no pleasure from correctly forecasting these days for over three decades now. If there is a silver lining it's that the beast has been uncorked in a way that all can see it as the evil that it is. Let's hope and pray that all citizens form a healthy mistrust for government, which would promote a healthier, freedom loving society.
This debacle in CONgress is even worse than my "worst case scenario" of bad. Have a wife, girlfriend and mortgage payment- all 30 days past due.
Actually the bill has been posted on line for almost 24 hrs.
http://www.opencongress.org/house_reconciliation
It's starting to look more like Zimbabwe. We've even got our own Barry Mugabe and his band of thugs.
Related YouTube parody featuring Obama, Wile E. Coyote, and a cliff: http://www.youtube.com/user/Optoons#p/u/27/xmey2U...
Unfortunately RightSide I am sure even Gators would pass on these vermin.
Not endangered until Open Season comes in November!
Currently, the herd is going through severe unchecked growth.
Mr. Franklin, what have you left us?
"A republic, madam, if you can keep it."
~ Benjamin Franklin ~
You make a valid point, however, if you know gator behavior they FAR prefer rotted and decayed flesh so this actually might work !
What I fear,
For the past fourteen months, the Health Care Hoax has been front and center. Everyone, in Washington, DC, and on Main Street has been focused on it. It doesn't matter if it is in the Capitol, or in the grocery store in Anytown, USA, it has everyones undivided attention.
In the meantime, there have been some lesser issues, sliding under the radar screen, ACORN, GITMO, the further deterioration of the financial system and Wall Street, that have not gotten the attention they warrant.
Meanwhile, we have troops in harms way on two fronts, Afghanistan and Iraq. We have Iran with nuclear ambitions, and North Korea, and further China, with problems on the horizon.
From the time that President Bush left, nobody has been focused on the war on terror. Consequently, Al Quaida has had fourteen months to regroup and reconstitute.
I fear it is about time for Al Quaida to raise its ugly head, in a major way.
SOT (slightly off topic) ALERT ! The Stupakers are folding. Ellsworth swapped over to a yes and another is "reviewing" his position. This bodes poorly for the vote but MORE IMPORTANTLY many million babies will die a painful death at the hands of the Democrats…..infant blood dripping from their hands. These poor babies.
So the Democrats just made it easier for women to just shred the beauty of life if inconvenient. Rather than take the necessary precautions to PREVENT conception they can now cast conscience to the wind. Sad day for America.
Great one.. Have not seen that one in years….
Well first of all Obama has crushed Al Qaeda with punishing drone attacks in Pakistan and we are probably as close to knowing where Osama Bin Laden is than at any time since Bush let him escape at Tora Bora. Why did anyone ever think that Bush, a very good friend of the Bin Laden family, would ever try that hard to get him?
And what is the provision in the bill that will cause more abortions? be specific please it is online now for all to see so support your lies with quoted language from the bill. OK?
I can't keep count of the "lies" and "bribes" that are part of this process to force Obamacare on an unwilling public.
Powerful cartoon on how Obamacare is violating the will of the people at http://drawfortruth.wordpress.com/category/health...
How many of the Ten Commandments will Obamacare break? Humorous cartoon on this at http://drawfortruth.wordpress.com/category/comman...
Ugh… Susan Kozmos – Orlando – just folded. No to yes….
How can the be on an even level with Corporations???? How? Is America this stupid?
Does the government pay taxes like Corporations? (state, local, federal, payroll, fica, property, etc….) – Looks like someone already has a hand up on finances to me ….
How Mr. President? How ?
"From the time that President Bush left, nobody has been focused on the war on terror. Consequently, Al Quaida has had fourteen months to regroup and reconstitute. "
What on earth are you talking about?
Troops in Afgahnistan
Jan 08 27,000
Jan 09 34,000
Jan 10 68,000
Bush Administration Drone attacks 45
Obama Administration Drone attacks 64 13 of those in January alone and the number is increasing. Also we're finally now doing extra screening of people who board from the Middle East and parts of Africa…
I'm failing to see your logic.
Okay… Lets do the math…. 38 MILLION babies killed by Democrats ! Need we go on..? OH WAIT ! Dems were responsible for that little skirmish in….let me think… VIET NAM ! Need we go on ? OH WAIT ! There was that little gem of putting the blacks back on the plantation…rubbing chin….what was that called… OH YES ! The GREAT SOCIETY by LBJ ! Need we go on ?? God I hate Libs….. No freaking brains….
Yepper.. to bad it wasn't a polar bear or tree wee were trying to save…. This would be a NO vote for sure!
That is a Saul Alinsky tactic, and we would be no better than our enemies to stoop that low.
Yes.
I imagine you would.
I would say that we can DEEM them out of OFFICE this November….
Many of the "legitimately" passed Bills/Laws of the past couple decades have been vessels of and for unconstitutional actions. Resoration of our foundations is important to cast out such loathsome legislation.
Great Karmak … yea haw!
so passing of this bill over 100,000 bibies will be aborted by you, and over $1 Trillion spent !!!!!
your turn …
Are you fully aware of how incompetently and inefficiently the war is being conducted? No one is the current administration has the will to win any type of "fight". They are all cowardly progressives. And for the drone kills… how many of them have been on the Pakistan side of the border? I believe it was under the previous administration that this was worked out and began well before Jan. 2009. So you go ahead and head back to Huff Puss so you can answer to your superiors and rub on some lotion.
"We the people, in order to RESTORE a more perfect union . . ."
[...] the original here: » The Perversion of Honest Law Making: The Slippery Slope that … Share and [...]
maybe this will help you understand the history of Republicans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWZcy0baCsU&fe...
It's time for republicans to play hardball. You know most of these liberals have deep dark skeletons in their closets. The republicans need to let them know they will be exposed if they vote for this monstrosity – or passively permit it's passage by not voting — even if it means they go down with the ship.
By any means necessary — is that not the motto?
This is just in: Rep. Boyd changed his vote from no to yes.
Wonder what goodies he got from Piglosi…..
Maybe she was announcing a trip to the bathroom and we misunderstood.
The 2700 page 'abomination' has not changed and remains the same as it was when it was passed months ago. The only new information is a small ~150 to ~200 page reconciliation package that corrects the things that the House did not like in the Senate bill (that no one liked, to be fair). That is already online and available to be read for 72 hours. You don't need to be a speed reader to read that little in 72 hours…especially given the spacing and formatting inherent in the way that legislation is printed (meaning it would be something more like 100 pages if you printed it like a regular piece of paper). The facts of this article are NOT correct. The author knows that the facts are not correct (most likely) and so is lying to you. Please – please spend some time reading FactCheck.org and at least base your flames on actual facts and not obviously misleading lies.
For all the talk of tyranny and revolution – can I remind you all that we live in a Democratic Republic? Call it a constitutional republic, as it is now being re-branded, if that makes you more comfortable. What this means is that we each elect representatives that we hope will share our values and opinions and those representatives make decisions for us.
My point here is this – if there are more democrats elected at a given time than this stands to reason that more of your fellow countrymen elected those people to represent their values and opinions….your fellow americans outnumber you in opinion and therefore should be allowed their representation. That's the "republic" in Constitutional Republic in action. If you don't like these decisions, you get to vote them out on their next election…just as our founding fathers had intended…and just as has happened in so many 'landslide' elections in the past. This is all part of the constitution that so many seem to say is being trampled now. I don't understand how losing an election translates to talk of revolutions and such?
[...] more: » The Perversion of Honest Law Making: The Slippery Slope that … Post a [...]
Abortion is "elective surgery". I think this opens a floodgate. Why is no one with a mouthpiece discussing this?
unfortunately CL I think your are correct. Not a matter if but when.
on a side note 2 CA congressional members got their district's water turned on….gee how convenient with the health care vote coming up….planned?? ah you bet….
Ick. We protect pregnant wildlife (hunting season timing) better than our babes in the womb.
LOL , If Barak Obama HALO jumped into Tora Bora solo with only a KA-BAR knife, hunted down and beheaded Osama Bin Laden, swam back across the Atlantic and put OSB's head on a pike at the White House, you people would still claim he's weak on terror. Ok, fine he's a Marxist whatever….
I can accept that theory I guess, but what I don't get is why people here think GWB did a good job fighting terrorism. He and his merry band of REMFers, 4Fers and Policy wonks dropped only 10K troops into Afgahanistan, let the country go to hell, let Osama Bin Laden escape and weaved this Neo-Con fantasy that we could invade Iraq, put in a pro US government and Domino Theory the rest of the Middle East… and now we have Iraq with a government allied with Iran that has a constitution that sttes explicitly that Islam is the foundation of the country's law… how on earth can anyone defend GW's "war on terror" at this point. It was an utter and complete failure.
My apologies (and STRONG desire for an "editing" tool.
The line that reads "FIVE TIMES…" should read: "…MORE than the totals of the FIRST FIVE YEARS… COMBINED, and more than TWICE as many as either of the previous two years."
…not "FIVE TIMES" that total.
Again, my apologies.
CM Sackett
Are you fully aware of how incompetently and inefficiently the war is being conducted? No one in the current administration has the will to win any type of "fight". They are all cowardly progressives.
What does that even mean? look standing up and saying "bring it on" likw W or grinding your teeth like Dick Cheney does not = "tough on terror" you know what is "tough on terror" KILLING TERRORISTS, GWB was all hat and no cattle. I'll take results thanks, and AMC can have the John Wayne theatrics.
On Bush: Friend of Bin Laden statement requires a link to substantiate.
On Abortion:
How about the Funding of abortions through taxpayers; FREE abortions means that they are more accessible:
H.R. 3590; Sec. 1303 Special Rules
These house members are being cajoled and threatened to support this by The Party. Their constituents are marching against this as well as more moderate to conservative people who don't want to be see this freedom legislated away from them. This is the culmination of the Progressive hijacking of the Democratic Party that has been going on for decades. Between 20 and 30% of the Dems hold Progressive or Socialist views according to polls. Those are the same people who make up the core of approval in all of the legitimate polls Have you not been watching?
These house members are being cajoled and threatened to support this by The Party. Their constituents are marching against this as well as more moderate to conservative people who don't want to be see this freedom legislated away from them. This is the culmination of the Progressive hijacking of the Democratic Party that has been going on for decades. Between 20 and 30% of the Dems hold Progressive or Socialist views according to polls. Those are the same people who make up the core of approval in all of the legitimate polls Have you not been watching?
This was supposed to be a reply to someone below who thinks that we are complaining because Dems won and are voting their way. Sorry about the lame placement.
Yep, we were sleepwalking into this one and now it's been laid bare for all to see. A pox on both the houses…
I quote you…Ok, fine he's a Marxist whatever….
That is the only truth you have spoken.
Think about your own math for a moment… To make it simple, let's say that 50% of people are Liberal and the other 50% are Conservative…to varying degrees. Then by that math 25% of both BOTH sides would be considered extremes. And if you happen to be on the far right and someone with a far left progressive view would seem crazy out of touch. But they're Americans too and should be allowed their constitutional right to free speech and democratic representation. There's no hijacking – more people that disagree with you voted for poeple that agree with them. That's no conspiracy, it's (again here) a Democratic Republic in action. I'm a centrist – I'm sitting in the center wondering why both sides seem to think that only they possess the only valid opinion…democratic election results be damned.
Now that i said that – I don't know what the opinion is on this site, but my personal preference would be for full-blown campaign reform. Something to the effect of give each politician 'x' amount of radio, print, and TV time and give them a publicly funded budget to pay for this. Maybe not exactly that, but the point is to remove the power of lobbyists entirely. Vote for each candidate based on merit and not who has more money to pay for advertisements…something to that effect.
I get it from this site – government is bad, taxes are bad, etc. But just realize that there your fellow Americans…and like it or not they are legitimately your fellow americans…do not agree with you. The rational and adult course of action is to meet in the middle but that seems so sadly far away at this point.
Thanks for not totally flaming me here – I actually enjoy a rationale and honest debate. Maybe there is actually a way to meet in the middle?
Florida and South Carolina are preparing to sue if Obamacare passes. 2 down and 48 to go.
I fear Rome is burning…
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1. If it is such a great piece of legislation, why would a party that has a majority in BOTH houses have such a hard time passing it?
2. Why not just work on rooting out the billions of fraud and waste that everyone agrees exist and use that for the uninsured?
3. What justification can you provide for Unions and others getting preferential treatment?
4. How do you explain the multiple audio and video recordings of B. Hussein Obama stating he wants a public option?
5. What do student loans have to do with health care?
6. How can you justify a president spending 1/4 of his term on HC reform when unemployment is devastating families? How many of those families have that have lost their jobs, many through no fault of their own, also now must suffer a bad credit rating for 7-10 years because they could no longer pay their bills? I'm not talking about someone who bought a home they could not afford or a BMW etc…I am talking about those who had a great job that is now gone due to policy under this administration. How is it fair that someone who legitimately couldn't pay a bill is punished for 7-10 years compared to child predators who are sentenced to paltry 3-5 years by judges appointed by Progressives. How about someone convicted of manslaughter only serving 2 years?
Show me the middle ground and I will meet you there. I won't be holding my breath waiting for a response.
I'm not flaming you. I am just really curious to hear your answers to some simple questions.
[...] Care and Financial Reform and What Next? Obama Piling it On Of Thee I Sing 1776, Big Government: The Perversion of Honest Law Making: The Slippery Slope that Lies Ahead Radio Vice Online: Democrat memo – don’t discuss health care legislation details Hot Air: AP [...]
The losing of an election doesn't drive people to revolution. And you don't need to remind us that we live in a republic. Try instead reminding those in Washington. While you're at it, try reminding them about the Constitution that each of them took an oath to uphold. Article 1, section 7 of the Constitution clearly states that in order to become a law, both the Senate and the House must vote in favor of the same bill. What the House is doing is avoiding a vote on the actual Senate bill, and only voting on the reconciliation package. No one in the House is going to be voting on the Senate bill, yet they will claim they've "passed it" in order for it to become law. That is a violation of our Constitution.
Time for our own "regime change"
Wow, triple jeopardy
The "slippery slope" to non-compliance.
By the way, the only thing that passes is the senate bill! The House will just go down the drain. On a 'voice vote' no less.
What are those little critters? They look a little like nutria. I'm guessing #2 or 3 shot be be pretty effective in the swamp.
When a crisis is needed expect it then. The administration will say we have to stop fighting amongst ourselves and unite to fight the enemy.
The process does matter:
http://reason.com/archives/201…..-does-matt
Wrong on so many facts where to begin
1)GWB started no such war
2)Not even remotely close to 100,00 Iraqi civilian killed
and let's remember the really important things
under GWB's watch, this country saw growth and prosperity the likes of what has never been seen before. Of course, once the libs/dims took over Congress and Bawnyballs Frank got his teeth on the housing market, well, things such seemed to go downhill from there.
God you libs are morons.
Wow, so the bulk of AlQueerda is in Pakistan? Who'd have known? And Nobama has been responsible for more knowledge of Bin Ladens whereabouts. Really? Does Obama even know where Pakistan is?
Painless (is that some type of statement of what you believe this Liberal/Socialist takeover will be? … you are WRONG!). Do you have any concept of what is really going on in the military, or are you just going by the BS you are fed!?!? For the last 23 years I have watched liberal ideals turn the military from something I was proud to join into something that I can’t wait to leave! What you and most Jack A$$es like you fail to understand is that there is far more going on in the military than what is seen by just a few meaningless statistics that you point to. If you want to know how well B. O. is doing as CIC just go to your closest military base and see what most career personnel think. (Not Joe dip-$hit that joined just to turn around and chain himself to a fence at the White House in uniform to give the appearance that the military is against the war.)
Cool – thanks for the response….
1 – I don't think it's a great piece of legislation. That wasn't my point, really. I was responding to the fact that this article was not factual. I think it's totally legitimate to dislike the bill, but your dislike should be based on fact and not "misinformation" (lies) on either side. It's not fair.
For my opinion as to why it was hard to pass is due to two factors – one is the republican opposition just for the sake of opposition…the obvious plan is to oppose every piece of legislation so that nothing gets done. When nothing gets done then in the next election, the electorate will kick out whoever was in power at the time (democrats) and elect republicans. It happened already in VA, for example. That's good politics, but it seems to me to be shady and wrong ethically. I believe both sides should negotiate in good faith and both sides should agree to meet somewhere in the middle. Anything to the far left or the right isn't fair. The second problem is that in becoming the party of "no" (which is really a shame since republicans actually have legitimate beliefs beyond just "no") they have forced 60 votes for literally anything in the Senate. Majority vote should be a fair vote in my opinion (recall now that the democratic republic constitution still allows for representatives to vote against in the House and again for the President as a mechanism of check and balance so I'm not implying anything crazy here…just majority vote in the Senate…if all of them pass it then more of your fellow countrymen believe something that you do not and they should be constitutionally allowed to be the 'winners'). So the result of this was that 60 votes were needed to pass anything…literally every single democrat. Now, consider that every democrat is not a blazing-left-leaning-super-progressive, right? Same as every Republican isn't super far right leaning. It was unfair to expect anything to pass by mandating every single vote….and so was born the ludicrous cornhusker kickbacks, etc.
2 – You know how the media spin says that money is being taken from medicare and that seniors are going to have their benefits cut because of it (I don't believe that they will, but that's the spin)? That's precisely what those 500 billion are said to be used for. I like the concept, but it does seem strange not to just give the money back to medicare alone.
3 – I'm not much of a union fan, to be honest, and don't really think they need preferential treatment. I believe they breed laziness in employees because of all the protections. That may sound bad, so let me put that statement into my own experience. I managed a union IT shop previously and in my experience it was unbelievably hard to fire a union employee that was not productive. Firing = an instant lawsuit, so I was required to literally provide nearly a year of documentation to fire for cause. Now, it would take me maybe 6 months or a year to decide the employee was worth getting rid of, so add on the extra year and I lost tons of productivity. And this was in a city government position. Now, I agree that workers should not be exploited (child labor, long hours, etc) , but I think society is past the industrial revolution where labor unions made perfect and legitimate sense.
4 – Not sure what you mean? but he does want a public option. He just understands that there aren't enough votes for it. Now, the way I see the world….not enough votes means that not enough of my fellow Americans believe in it, so it shouldn't go. I actually liked the idea of the additional competition, but my fellow Americans didn't so that's that. OK. The general opinion seemed to be that a government run insurance company (that I see as competition) would be chosen by so many people that it would quickly become the only insurance company (government takeover) so it was bad. I don't agree with that line of reasoning, but more of my fellow americans did, so I accede that it should be deleted from legislation.
I believe that it is Obama's plan to create enough chaos is the country that he can declare a national emergency, suspend elections and set aside the constitution. When he has complete control of health care, the financial infrastructure, the manufacturing capability of the nation, unbridled immagration, a bankrupt middle class, a totally dependant lower class and a fleeing upper income class he will have achieved the liberal ideal of society. When people without hope of impovement realize that they have no hope chaos will ensue. Under Marshall law he can suspend elections, set aside the constition and set himself up to emulate his acknowledged hero FDR. Although four terms as our Dear Leader may not be enough to satisfy his ego. All hail King Barrak.
5 – Nothing – doesn't make sense to me. And I would say the same about any earmark.
6 – Really good point. His (his now, not mine) is that if you take the time to look hard at the long term federal budget and you do not want that budget to continue into the red then Medicare is the biggest piece of that puzzle. Kill every earmark in perpetuity, for example, and you don't even scratch the surface. Fix medicare, though, and you've fixed the long term budget of the country for good. That's why…he's looking 20 or 50 years out whereas most folks are just looking at today (and sort of rightfully so…for example, I desperately want to move but am $50K underwater in my house….stuck where I am for the indefinite future). So – longterm, fixing Medicare…whatever that fix is…is the BEST way to fix the US finances. I see the logic in that line of reasoning, but I also see that the economy needs some short term fixing. Now – the argument I think I hear most often from the right is to cut taxes. Ok, great – but didn't we do that with Bush already? I didn't think it really worked as great as it was pitched to me? It sounded good on paper, but did it work? I don't want to pay extra taxes but is that really the only available answer? That's an honest question and I'm hoping for an honest response here…
I've already gone through and completed the 10 years of bankruptcy. It sucks, I agree. Paying cash for everything is tough. The humiliation is terrible and emasculating. This administration hasn't existed the whole time though. The downward spiral started a few months before he took office (remember when McCain was going to stop the campaign to go back to Washington…it really hit then. So that was at the tail end of Bush's 8 years. I don't honestly understand how that would be "policy under his [Obama's] Administration"? If your response is that Obama hasn't done enough – sure, let's talk about what more could have been done. But if your response is that Omaba was the root cause then the historical facts just don't line up. You can disklike him and his policies, but he wasn't the root cause.
One point while I'm on it. Wall Street Bailout (TARP) was Bush not Obama….that seems to be misrepresented often.
Now – the rest of that about short sentences for heinous crimes – How could anyone argue with that except for the one bit that you slipped in the middle – you can't honestly believe that 'progressives' = judges that let child predators loose. I can't argue that heinous crimes should not result in equally severe punishments but I would need more evidence to support your claim that "progressives" are the only reason that short sentences exist. Really – I know little about the topic generally. Maybe you're right but I'd need more proof to believe it.
The last line was kind of uncalled for don't you think?
All slanted data. What portion of these troops are infantry? Logistics? Guard duty? Are these numbers actually in area or just passing through? You really don’t know the answer to any of these questions, do you? You just spit out meaningless numbers, failing to prove a point? When did drone use start in the Middle East? When were we finally through testing and confident it was something we wanted to produce? How long did it take to set contracts for drone production or start mass production? I will tell you that these drone kill numbers you quote have nothing to do with B. O.’s actions and everything to do with G. W. B.’s actions and the answers to some of the above questions. Typical lib antics tack credit for inherited circumstances. B. O. has stopped production of missile defense systems at a time when Iran is developing and everyone is focused on Health Care; Cowboy’s point. Go home troll!
Good point – I don't agree with Deem and Pass. It's a legitiamate pariliamentary rule that's been used by both parties many times in the past. But that doesn't make it wholesome. I would use the same statement about the filibuster – something I also don't agree with.
I like the content of your second paragraph, but then I don't understand how anything would ever get done by that reasoning? By your reasoning the minority should make the decisions since the majority = tyranny? What are votes good for? I'm honestly asking trying to understand your point of view here. How does what you say work? You say that having majority votes in the house, senate, and the president are not sufficient and that this equals tyranny? How? Again – more people in the US voted for representatives that disagree with you in 2 of the three complete branches of government – wouldn't it be tyranny to say that their opinions are not valid? Really – this is an interesting topic and I'm hoping for more information from you to understand your point of view. I'm confused and not condescending.
Cowboy, sorry to see you have to put up with the dim-witted troll (Painless) on such a valid point.
"Take note of how in an economically successful China, an all-powerful controlling class can, by hiding the truth from its citizenry, keep over a billion people from the enjoyment of personal freedom."
They control communication as does Ahmad, Kim, Chaves, Castro, since we now have all digital maybe us. Obama acts and talks like one of them and his/their thinking is global. We appear to be converging even to the extent of population control. I'd say many in the WH admire China and even the other dictators.
I thought that Bush would do that at the end of his last term – create a national emergency and de-legitimize the election. Didn't happen. Nor will "King Barrack" (learn to spell) will do the same. You are paranoid.
“5,000 US killed and 30,000 wounded.” That’s what we do in the military; risk life and injury to protect our nation’s security.
“100,000 Iraq civilians killed.” Since terrorists are not military, their numbers are counted in this, and since their tactics involve random and chaotic destruction instead of conventional warfare, they have killed many innocent; that’s why we are trying to stop them.
Prior to the war we inspected Iraq for WMD. A country that had the largest use of chemical and biological warfare since WWI, under the leadership of Sadam. What did we find? Long range delivery systems for chem./bio. weapons. Labs for chem./bio. agent production. We just could not find the actual agent. Let’s think about this, you can put enough biological agent in a one gallon milk jug to completely destroy our nation, and they had months to prepare for the inspections. We found everything but the chem./bio. agent and our media twisted this into we couldn’t find WMD and Bush was unjustified in his war.
Wut?? GWB stated no such war?? Where do you get your facts? GWB Invaded Iraq so that Saddam could not use weapons of mass destruction. There were no WMD found. Evidence suggests that the 'evidence' that GWB used to justify the war was not as solid as we were led to believe. Therefore invading Iraq was probably not justified. Let's now say that 1 American Soldier died and only 1 Iraqi died….make the math easy. Was either death justified given the circumstance? Don't argue the semantics of what math is right…narrow down to one death on each side. Was each death justified given that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and no WMD were ever found? That's the answer to your #2 above.
The growth and prosperity that you reference ended the October before Obama was elected. The proverbial sh*t hit the fan during the very end of the Bush eraso how does did the democratic election after that become the root cause?
God you *whatever you are* seem to not understand the timeline of history. Disagree with liberal policy. Disagree with whatever – but at least get your facts straight.
Neat quote – what percent of vote is OK in that case? We vote in a democracy – what is an acceptable non-mob-rule vote under constitutional dictate? 52%? 60%? It's a cool quote but what is your suggested solution?
1176 = taxation without representation. How is an elected majority voting for healthcare a legitimate call for revolution?
*1776 – typo, sorry.
100+ million armed Americans might have something to say about that.
I hate the "they did it before" argument, but if the Dems are going to rely on that, we should remind them that the great patriots of this country have revolted and fought tyranny before, too. Those who oppose our freedom should, and hopefully will, pay for it in the future. I certainly hope we can stop the country's fast slide into the swamps of #ocialism via political means, but the recent disrespect for We the People is beginning to cause me serioius concerns (and visits to savingtherepulic.com).
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