Reason.tv: If Taxes Are The Price We Pay For Civilization, Do You Ever Get The Feeling You’ve Been Cheated?

The left clearly has a different meaning assigned to the word "Civlization"

Essential Services no problem, the other 65% which seems to largely compromise redistribution is what I have a problem with, not to mention Effeciency, 1PayIn:100Payout pensions, gold plate this, gold plated that, lack of a work ethic etc. even for the essential programs.

"The truth is that taxation is usually inversely related to the civilization you get."

You'll love Somalia. Teabagger heaven. Low low taxes and virtually no central government. Mostly clans run by theocracies. Just what you all dream about.

Anon–you are a citiot who is used to getting everything at the push of a button. Your every purchase is recorded, so they will know what to sell you. Your every move is tracked. You are the sum total of your SSN, your Credit Score, and your cholesterol count.

This does not bother you in the slightest, but God help you if the power ever goes out.

No, anon believes whatever they tell him/her to believe.

"I know it's true, oh so true, cuz I saw it on TV"–John Fogerty.

The numbers are far too large for a_non_thinker to comprehend, just glosses over those pesky facts.

So on top of footing the bill for those that dont pay a cent in taxes we also pay for the moochers to be civilized… Great…….

Yeah of course its lower for those that dont pay a dime.

[...] post by Nick Gillespie and software by Elliott Back Comments [...]

"You believe only what you want to believe."

I believe in the facts. And the facts are that Obama cut taxes for 95% of us. And you retards are out protesting the lowest tax rates in 60 years.

Certifiable morons. All of you.

more wit- and wisdom- from our Big Ten accountant…

Y'know that makes him really smart. Crunching numbers. Which is, of course, why when entering the domain of
logic and narrative he must speak in non sequiturs,like the now infamous 'God, you people are stupid'. Never making the case why- a sentence fragment, an incomplete thought followed by an insult.

From an accountant.

Don't know about you but we HIRE accountants- because we make considerably more money than they…

How stupid is that?

You are a little confused (as usual)

The people that are not happy with the taxation scheme are the people paying the taxes, the 47% that gets a free ride are probably on your side of the fence or apathetic at best.

You would think that the slackers would be happy getting to ride on our backs, but no, they want steak dinners, TV's, free cars, free homes, free medical etc.

Dude, good to see you back.

Let me guess, you're running low on Chronic is that why you are a little grumpy today?

True, Government does need revenue from taxes to fund their limited but important roles.

I think we have passed that level many decades ago.

"People are not complaining about the tax rate currently as much as they are complaining about wasteful DEFICIT spending that will force these tax rates to be raised."

Where were you fools when W doubled the debt in relatively prosperous times?

No one likes deficits. No one. However, our banking system and the total collapse of our economy is much worse.

And thanks to W and the GOP, those were the two choices Obama faced. And he's handled it beautifully. In a little over a year we've gone from losing 1/2 a million jobs a month to GAINING jobs.

Well done. Mr. President.

OK that was humorous!

Did you know that Moonbats have a anus at each end? Strange, considering that they have no guts.

I complained about the deficits under Bush and the Republicans because I'm consistent. They do nothing productive in periods of prosperity or when we're facing an economic downturn.

By the way, Obama's approval numbers are dropping daily. He's already nearing what happened to Bush in his second term. If he's doing such a great job and we're "gaining jobs" (this is news to the people who compile unemployment statistics, by the way), why are Americans consistently voicing their disapproval with his job performance?

He has "one-termer" written all over him.

if he lasts that long

This is all we truly want for all of U.S.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP-IM7maxbI&fe...

God Bless America

Tax facts: http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/10-inconvenien...

Here, then, are 10 Inconvenient Truths for Tax Day:

1. Over 95% of Working Households Got Tax Cuts
2. Only 2% of Tea Baggers Know Obama Cut Their Taxes…
3. …and 52% of Tea Partiers Think Their Taxes are Fair…
4. …and Think the Federal Tax Level is Over Double What It Is
5. 1% of Families Earned 24% of All Income…
6. …and 57% of All Capital Income
7. 400 Richest Taxpayers Saw Incomes Double, Tax Rates Halved
8. Only 1 in 500 Families Pay the Estate Tax
9. Corporate Taxes Have Plummeted as a Share of GDP
10. The U.S. Loses $345 Billion a Year to Tax Evasion and Fraud

Teabaggers are tools of big wealth and corporate whores who do not reinvest in the economy but who evade taxes by hiding their wealth overseas and in tax shelters and other tricks. Big wealth buys off government officials of both parties to get bailouts and subsidies galore. Big wealth also stokes the culture wars to keep folks distracted from the truth that if only the right and left joined forces in a unified populist movement, they could overcome the death-grip big corporations have on government and society.

Dont you get it? Conservatives and progressives have alot in common – but teabaggers and conservatives are fooled by Glen Beck – type hucksters and race-baiters into thinking that progressives are the enemy, when the real enemy is corporate dominance. Dogwhistles like "Obama was born in kenya" are specifically intended to make conservatives have emotional reactions against progressives who are "multicultural." The culture wars serve the class war waged from above by dividing us from each other.

Big wealth laughs all the way to the bank …Ever notice that the really wealthy make off no matter who is in office, no matter which party is in power, and no matter whether the economy is robust or hurting? That is no accident.

You have to start with this: Qui bono?

Happy tax day, teabaggers.

Yeah, Dems felt the same way about Bush. He was hated everywhere, even amongst Republicans, and still got re-elected. Likely, the Republican party will put up someone like Sarah Palin and Obama will win again, purely because he'd be the lesser of two evils.

The worrisome thing is that Obama knows he is going to be a one termer, so he intends to do as much damage as he can in the limited time he has (which is not another 2 and a half years, but seven months).

95%? Really?? what bill was that in, and when was it passed?? also, how do you cut taxes for 95% of the population, when almost 50% don't pay ANY taxes? how exactly do you cut ZERO??

Article 7 of the 1979 constitution of the Somali Democratic Republic:

“Authority and Leadership of the Party
The Somali Revolutionary Socialist Party shall be the only legal party in the Somali Democratic Republic; no other party or political organisation may be established.
The Somali Revolutionary Socialist party shall have supreme authority of political and socio-economic leadership in the Somali Democratic Republic."

Somalia is your dream of a Socialist Utopia come true.

There is no such thing as a corporate death grip; no corporation can force you to buy their product or pay for someone else's purchase. No corporation can force you to buy health insurance (if they could, wouldn't they have done so already?). No corporation hires 16,000 people to make sure people have bought their product.
No corporation can advertise one product being on sale and then only having a more expensive alternative available, then forcing you to pay for the more expensive product (I think they call it bait and switch).

Qui bono? Obama and the Dems.

Well that's a good start. Now if we can just get you as angry about your taxes being wasted on bailouts for companies that run themselves into the ground.

You're finally half-right on something. Thanks to Obama's tax cuts, I take home a whopping extra $13 dollars a week – about twice as much as the tax cut I got from Bush when Democrats were screeching that it would bankrupt the country. On the other hand, my pay and hours were cut to offset my employer's impending tax INCREASE, and my health insurance rates increased in anticipation of ObamaCare. Plus, the Democrats that run my state see every Federal tax cut as an opportunity to raise state sales taxes. They just went up 3.5%. So I got that goin' for me.

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"Every new rule and regulation created by our government is also secretly supported by big businesses."

Not exactly – they oppose regulations that diminish their bottom line. Other than that, there's no secret about it. Big businesses dominate the government through lobbying and campaign contributions. Reduction of competition does not come from regulations – it comes from lack of enforcement of antitrust to the point where oligopolies or in some cases monopolies have the market power to kill competition. Look at the vertical integration of the ag industry for example. How are family farms doing these days? Big Ag benefits from subsidies more than family farms do. Government is the only entity powerful enough to provide a counterbalance against the power of big corporations. The key is accountability of the government to the people instead of to the corporations government is supposed to restrain.

And corporations are able to avoid most of those taxes whereas people are not. This is not an accident. Corporations should get tax breaks for investing in jobs and economic growth but should not be rewarded for hoarding wealth and making money off of tranching bad mortgages into derivatives, exporting jobs and all the rest.

I see you are a proud conservative gun owner. I am a proud gun-totin' progressive, and Im telling you that all Americans have alot in common, that name-calling is weak, and that you have been disinformed into acting against your own interest by fighting the wrong "enemy." Think outside the teabag for once.

That's wrong. Corporations dominate markets, see above. Why cant I buy an American-made car that gets competitive gas mileage compared with foreign cars? Because auto and fossil fuel corporations dominated the government and prevented proper incentives from being put in place. Have you tried lately to buy blue jeans made in the USA? Our manufacturing base has been offshored because government is run for the corporations and not for the people. Government will work well again when it's for the benefit of the people. Tea-partiers have that right partly, but they dont get that government has to be held accountable to ALL the people, not just conservatives. Unregulated free markets will not achieve justice for the people. The people, united and not divided, will.

Obama and the Dems benefited from the fact that the Bushies drove the country into the ground and alienated independent voters. The Dems will not be in power forever. Republicans will take power back; and after that the Dems will; and after that the Republicans, etc etc. Both parties are owned by the corporations, although the Republicans more deeply so.

do I feel cheated?? CHEATED? I feel more like some government thug holds a gun to my head and insists that, just because I worked for my paycheck doesn't mean I'm allowed to keep it.
After-all, there are thousands upon thousands of able-bodied welfare recipients that need my money more than I do….

I am favor of cutting taxes under any circumstances and for any excuse, for any reason, whenever it's possible.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
We have a system that increasingly taxes work and subsidizes nonwork.
Milton Friedman

Absolutely no relation to that other Friedman who soaks himself in the NY Times bathhouse and pretends he is smart.

[...] post:  » Reason.tv: If Taxes Are The Price We Pay For Civilization, Do … By admin | category: federal do | tags: activities-supported, all-projects, america, [...]

Corporations will never "pay" taxes. They will always pass the cost on to consumers. By taxing corporations out the wazoo, you inadvertently raise prices on everything which, as usual, hurts the middle-class and the poor the most.

I know it may sound counter-intuitive, but it's true. Think about it: corporations aren't going to keep their products the same price if their taxes go up. It wouldn't make sense to do so (it also wouldn't really be financially possible).

All I need to know about your motivations / philosophy is revealed by your citation that Corporate Taxes have plummeted as a share of GDP.

If a person or corporation earns more this year than they did last year and they pay the same tax rate as they did last year, then their tax has fallen as a share of their income (or GDP, or National Income, or whatever it happens to be labeled as).

So?!?! Isn't that a good thing? Shouldnt' a person or corporation be able to keep the fruits of their labor or their investment? There is no moral or economic reason why a person or corporations first responsibility is to finance the government aparatus that their neighbor or competitor has voted into power in order to redistribute someone else's wealth into their own pocket.

Shouldnt' a person be able to earn more and save more each year and thus accumulate a nest egg of their own, making them less dependent upon government handouts?

Perhaps you can't buy a domestic auto that fits the foreign gas mileage bill you desire.
So? Just because you WANT IT!! doesn't mean that you can or should get it. Perhaps the Big Three decided to build vehicles more in line with the geographic reality of the US, ie, the US is not some bass ackwards European sardine can country where people are piled on top of each other like firewood.

Perhaps a significant enough share of the market desired big honkin' SUVs because they like the safety of a bigger vehicle.
At the end of the day, the fact remains that even if you can't get the sort of domestic auto you desire, you CAN buy a foreign car that better suits your wants or needs.

It is hard to make the argument (or take the argument once made) seriously that Big Oil and BIg Auto have dominated the poor, defenseless, helpless, benevolent gov't.
Is it Big Auto that just announced that they are increasing the CAFE standards to 35.5 mpg in 2016 (forward from 2020), thus driving up the cost of their product, thus making it more difficult for their customers to afford their product?!
Is it Big Oil that refuses to drill for vast known deposits of oil, or is it a politician's signature that puts these resouces off limits?
Is it Big Finance that wanted to loan money to people with no hope or intention of paying it back? It is Big Finance that told itself that if it didn't loan poor people money it is guilty of redlining and if it DID loan to poor people it is guilty of predatory lending?
If is Big Pharma that makes itself jump through hoops to get its products approved? Oh, wait, that would be the FDA.

Perhaps if corporations hadn't been demonized and taxed so severely they wouldn't have off shored their operations. The cheap cost of off shore labor might be part of the answer, but there is no guarantee that off shore labor will be as productive as American labor, so there is definitely a risk in moving off shore. Unless the tax savings enable you to compensate for less productive laborers….

Funny that you should mention the straw man argument of "unregulated free markets." Limbaugh asked yesterday "can you name for me ONE example of unfettered free markets?! Big Oil? Big Pharma? Big Auto? Big Finance?"

The only thing that the government can do for all the people is provide them with the 'services' enumerated in the Constitution, which is to say protect individuals' rights. By definition, if the government is providing one person with national defense, they are providing everyone with national defense.
It is not the responsibility of corporations to achieve justice; their job is to earn profits in order to maintain the business.
It is not the responsibility of "the people" to achieve justice, either, not as long as there are people like you or Acorn or the ACLU who pay more attention to what someone else has and then connive ways to get their hands on that instead of finding a job and making their own way, then being satisfied with whatever level of comfort that can purchase for them.
There can never be 'justice' when equality of outcome is the objective.

If you are so concerned about corporate influence, then you should focus your attention on getting the government out of the business of selling favors in return for campaign contributions. If the government had nothing to sell in that market, the corporations wouldn't have anything to buy.
The government could get back to its knitting and the corporations could devote their time and energy to providing products that the market wanted to buy, like, for example, a high mileage domestic auto…..

You believe only what you want to believe. THAT'S the hallmark of stupidity.

From the Joint Committee on taxation:

“Taxpayers earning less than $200,000 a year will pay roughly $3.9 billion more in taxes—in 2019 alone—due to healthcare reform, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress’s official scorekeeper.
The new law raises $15.2 billion over 10 years by limiting the medical expense deduction, a provision widely used by taxpayers who either have a serious illness or are older.
Taxpayers can currently deduct medical expenses in excess of 7.5 percent of their adjusted gross income. Starting in 2013, most taxpayers will only be able to deduct expenses greater than 10 percent of AGI. Older taxpayers are hit by this threshold increase in 2017.
Once the law is fully implemented in 2019, the JCT estimates the deduction limitation will affect 14.8 million taxpayers — 14.7 million of them will earn less than $200,000 a year. These taxpayers are single and joint filers, as well as heads of households.”

Where the hell do you get your information? Obviously the few months before the elections the administration is keeping the tax level down, look what happens after the election. Your man in the oval office is enacting crushing tax burdens in the future. This is straight from Congress's official scorekeeper.

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Not many folks believe the same way while you. That contains me.. sorry

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Amen! +100

Amen.

Of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich.

Great website…

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