Reason.tv: 3 Reasons Obama’s High-Speed Rail Will Go Nowhere Fast
by Nick GillespieSupertrain 2010 = Supertrain 1979!
President Barack Obama has pledged $8 billion in tax dollars to build a national network of high-speed rail—trains that can carry passengers at speeds in excess of 150 MPH.
But the Supertrain fantasy was a mistake back in the 1970s, when it gave rise to one of the most expensive—and rotten—TV shows in history. And it’s just as much of a wreck in the 21st century for at least three reasons:
1. The lowball costs. CNN estimates that delivering on the plan could cost well over $500 billion and take decades to build, all while failing to cover much of the country at all. Internationally, only two high-speed rail lines have recouped their capital costs and all depend on huge subsidies to stay in operation.
2. The supposed benefits. “We’re gonna be taking cars off of congested highways and reducing carbon emissions,” says Vice President Joe Biden, an ardent rail booster. But most traffic jams are urban, not inter-city, so high-speed rail between metro areas will have no effect on your daily commute. And when construction costs are factored in, high-speed rail “may yield only marginal net greenhouse gas reductions,” say UC-Berkeley researchers.
3. The delusional Amtrak example. Obama and Biden look to Amtrak as precedent, but since its founding in 1971, the nation’s passenger rail system has sucked up almost $35 billion in subsidies and, says The Washington Post’s Robert J. Samuelson, “a typical trip is subsidized by about $50.” About 140 million Americans shlep to work every day, while Amtrak carries just 78,000 passengers. There’s no reason to think that high-speed rail will pump up those numbers, though there’s every reason to believe its costs will grow and grow.
“Supertrain 2010″ was written and produced by Meredith Bragg and Nick Gillespie, who also hosts. Approximately 3 minutes.
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109 Comments
$8 billion will get the ball rolling. Of course it will be up to the states to fund the rest of the trillion dollar project.
Another PR move by the floppy eared poser.
Why can't we just fly?
The delusional Amtrak example….another money pitt. That's for sure, this is just another FDR style government program to syphon more money off the middle class folks and keep them down. The more money O can draw away from the people, the closer he will have us to serfdom and him being king.
Gotta love how O sends out the village idiot to promote it.
The biggest reason of all for why this will go nowhere Mr Gillespie…
No person capable of rational thought trusts this government anymore.
This is more obama crap just like the loan guarantees for nuclear plants. He says a lot and does nothing. Don't listen to what he says. Watch what he does.
Did I forget the treehuggers, EPA and the NRC I'm sure they'll help to get the projects moving…
NOT!
I don't know anyone who would ever want to ride it. Maybe we can fund some high speed horse & buggy operations too.
Stupid is as Stu… well it's just plain ol' STUPID.
I'm so tired of the elites in Washington thinking they know better then the people of this country. Most of these politicians are career idiots. Having never been exposed to the real world they lack the common sense to create anything that is successful. They don't have to worry because when it fails (as all they touch does) WE the American taxpayer will once again be punished for having idiots driving the bus.
I do think there are a few really good politicians out there but they are the minority by a large margin!!!!
Yep. Those fruits would be all over the proposed sites, spilling their Kool-Aid and declaring "WETLANDS" where they stood.
Too bad that we scraped or NATIONAL RAIL system after WW I I…………..
Oh…..
We also scraped our CITY TROLLEY systems too……..
I wonder why?
COULD IT HAVE BEEN THAT ALL THOSE WW II DEFENSE COMPANIES
REFINING GASOLINE AND MAKING TIRES NEEDED AN OUTLET FOR THEIR PRODUCTS?
This is one time I can say I am glad we have the EPA….We need to defund them when the powers that be shift again.
High Speed Railroad s/b Railroaded at High Speed
I wonder if spitting on your lawn causes it to become a wetland too..?
If it was me I would scrap the entire alphabet soup of corruption!
Obama's wind mill pipe dream faces the same realities. Despite the fact that they will never work efficiently, before they get these giant wind ranches built, the enviro's and EPA will hold up completion for environmental reasons or failing that because the project for the power lines would violate sacred ground or interupt the mating habits of some coackroach.
Thats why they created the National Defense Highway System. If I could turn back the clock,,,I would still rather have the freedom of the roads as opposed to traveling with the masses. But that's just me one of the many ignorant carbon generators. If you love the rails so much,,,move to Europe or take up residence at disneyland.
Dittos.
Their true vision for our world is to have half of the population of earth die off and the rest live in grass huts, eating berries, grass clippings and dirt. I would say they are well on their way if they are not stopped in November….in fact it may well be to late.
Look at what is happening in front of the Pentagon RIGHT NOW, would you want to be stuck in that train?
Google "Georgia Guide Stones", that is what they REALLY want, really…
The only trains that are economically viable are freight trains. And maybe one or two carnival rides.
Next time try to look a little deeper……….
That NATIONAL RAIL system would have kept most of those annoying truckers off the road………
As for the CITY (METRO) TROLLEY system…….same for the annoying buses……….
BTW…….are you talking about the "National interstate and Defense Highways Act" of 1956…….commonly know as the Eisenhower Interstate Act……designed to allow rapid deployment in case of an invasion or to re-arm our 2nd stike nuclear bombers?
Finally……been to Europe…..NO THANKS…..and I'll leave it to you to have fun with DOPEY.
"Supertrain" was just plain lame; the veteran "old head" conductor didnt even know how to step aboard a moving train.
Obamatrain is more lame, and the justifications and claims for it sound made up, if not factually untrue.
Mile for mile, rail transport is clearly efficient, as long as your hauling freight, but when you try to reinvent passenger trains, build new roadbeds, signaling and dispatching, crews, stations, maintenance, supply, etc. the economies of scale required to make it profitable would require us to run hundredes of them and for millions of us to ride hem.
Does the term airlines ring a bell here?
You are surely kidding! We have the most extensive rail system in the world!
Our major cities have the most extensive underground rail systems in the world.
Have you been to Europe and compared those country sizes and cities to the USA?
Read the F*****ing article man! There is 'logic' of why trolleys went underground and railroads now efficiently deliver freight and not people and the explanation IS in Nick's article. Population density in this country is VASTLY different than Europe. Intercity high speed rail is a joke in this expansive country in this century.
Roads and Cars, gasoline, tires, are the fantastic revenue source of the last century. Fossil fuels will be exhausted by the end of this century so the market will naturally 'switch' and need not be 'forced' or even regulated!
Use your head!
Gentle Readers,
AMTRACK actually makes money on 90% of it's tickets: but loses all of the money it makes and then some on 10%. Politics. Can't get those money-losing routes shut down.
Privatize AMTRACK and it will make money, but then politicians wouldn't decide where the trains run, ticket-buying passengers would determine that.
Dear ed357,
Here in Brighton, Colorado, private rail and private bus lines were scrapped by local authorities who wanted to run the transit system. Again, the private sector made decisions based on what customers wanted, not what politicians & special interests ( mostly developers here, like my Congressman, Mr. Perlmutter D – greedhead )
wanted.
When I was a kid, the buses ran to Denver every 2 hours 24/365 and you could get a train to NYC or LA. But they got sued by the RTD here in CO. Now we get 2 buses in the morning & evening, and the service stinks! Despite tax subsidies, prices are alot higher. ( more than inflation ) Its cheaper to driver your car than take a bus here. They took out hundreds of miles of Tram that was privately owned and replaced it with one light -rail line, that again, cost a fortune for lousy service.
UCD students built a trolly car for downtown and there was a commuter rail line from Ft. Collins to Denver, but RTD killed all of that too, with tax dollars.
Kindest Regards,
I am,
John Lepant
Brighton
Colorado
[...] » Reason.tv: 3 Reasons Obama’s High-Speed Rail Will Go Nowhere Fast – Big Governme… [...]
I don't know if Biden received travel expense for his daily train trips between DC and Wilmington, DE.
But even if he bought his own tickets, his 7,900 trips each subsidized to the tune of $50 means it cost taxpayers $395,000.
Just think how great it will be to subsidize all the riders of the High Speed Rail lines. And of course the government(we) will spend more millions in advertising campaigns to increase ridership.
Good comment. However, there is a reason that there are very few passenger trains like Amtrak in the private sector. NO PROFIT! The rails are there, the passengers are not!__They really can't even sell Amtrak! They couldn't even give it away except to folks who would sell off the assets for scrap.__Same story for USPS, Freddie, Fannie, Government Motors, eventually hospitals, clinics, etc. The govt solution is to run even more of industry to run it with the efficiency only government can acheive!
First hand experience. There is a high speed rail from Shanghai (Pudong) International airport that takes passengers from the airport to the outer ring of the city. I have never seen an average Chinese person on the train… on business people, like me, and wealthy Chinese businessmen.
Just another boondoggle and way to funnel billions to Obama supporters and cronies (of the Chicago variety).
I am at a loss to understand why liberals think that government can do ANYTHING more efficiently or effectively than private enterprise, other than the Constitutionally-mandated activities like providing for the common defense.
That pretty much sums it up…I had never heard of this group, but I knew this is what they wanted….Thanks Missy8s. My husband who is an anthropology major will find this fascinating….with his conservative mind.
Completely off topic but no where to post. Sorry. After swearing on many stacks of bibles, my contact explained to me how the census will work. I mean she would know considering she got paid $800 for 2 days of training at a luxury hotel (the gov picked up the tab for the rooms and the food). The $800 was hers to keep over and above.
At any rate, they have 3 waves of people making sure the addresses are correct that last year's census takers GPS'd with hand held computers. I am not making this up. Then the actual census takers make contact with the people at said address. If no one answers, another wave of census takers try again.
Then the census papers are mailed to the houselhold. If no one repsonds, there is a third wave of census takers that actually are trained as private investigators and can hide in bushes, behind buildings etc to try and to pin down and accost the houselhold individuals for the answers.
Thats where the patriot act and fines come into play. I swear, this is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
WHO can make up crap like this? Unbelievable!
I heard he wants to bring out "High speed horse drawn wagons" as phase two of this plan.
I live in a rural community and plan to stay here…its safer, we are all pretty much of the same conservative mindset. The progs will be ran out when the proverbial defication hits the rotating oscillator. The crazy thing is I live in a very prog state….
Oh the pre-GPS thing is real enough, I ran one of those off the property when they failed to produce proper ID, guy was friendly enough, so was I but he was acting all hinky and shifty about it so off he went.
I guess maybe he was polite due to my three bull mastiffs becasue neighbors had a worse opinion of him.
Any time Lorben, you may also want to Google "Theosophical Society" and/or "Madame Blavatsky", very interesting stuff that explains much about modern progressivism…
First create a problem that does not exist, then spend boat loads of money creating a real problem, which then requires more money to fix.
Repeat until you and your cronies are rich beyond your wildest dreams. Politicians, the only crooks that don't need to wear ski masks
I live in such a blue state that it's on the "left coast"!
We are a mere one out of three out here, we may be small but we're huge…!
I forgot to mention in my post that the 3 waves of census GPS'ers are all different people. NOT the same person to check and re-check. Think about all the money that is being spent on this!!!!! OUR money and this is only to verify adresses.
They know what is coming down the pipe, so you are correct. Total raping of our economy in so many ways.
Actually the Amtrak subsidy is $100 per trip.
About 1/2 of Amtrak traffic is northeast corridor, the only part of Amtrak actually making money.
All of the subsidy money, as well as the NE corridor profit, goes to subsidize the other 1/2 of Amtrak.
Idealism! There is a reason that all of the 'wonderful' communes which sprang up in the 60's failed! The hippies found out that it was pretty hard to grow your own food, and hand pick tomato hornworms off tomato's (Now that is competition). They went back to working and buying Wise Potato Chips, beef, chicken etc 'off the shelf'.
Most of the communes only lasted 1/2 way through the first winter. After that, fossil fuels didn't seem so bad! They went home to Mom and Dad, women usually pregnant! They are back as progressives, as long as they don't have to work for it and they can just get it from the "Mom and Dad Taxpayer" The Irony is that they are the ones who are now 60 years old!
The solution?
What would happen if all electrical power were turned off in the US for 1 month?
The 'hope' of change is coming this November. I hope people are putting out the political signs in your front yard and going to meetings as I am. Elsewise if humans don't get involved, it is just a matter of time that we will repeat non-human history!
In Phoenix the Governor at the time, (now the homeland security chief idiot) Janet Nappylotaxo, decided to build light rail. Of course the people were duped by attaching the line into a very badly needed transportation bill. It could not stand on its own merits. This is a slow speed trolley train that runs down Central Ave, then turns East and goes through ASU and then to Mesa. If you live within walking distance and work within walking distance, I could see using the thing, but what percentage of people live in that area? Hardly none. So… the light rail system is a boondoggle and always will be.
In New Mexico, The governor, Richardson, ram rodded the Railrunner train from Albuquerque to Santa Fe. Now, it is shutting down services on the weekends and it too is a boondoggle.
In both cases, the rides are heavily subsidized to the tune of 87% to 95%.
Trains sound cool and all, but go nowhere near providing mass transit. The only people who ride these trains are hardcore people who work in government jobs and can walk to and from the rail lines. The other 99.9% of the people are left out.
I really am pissed that my tax dollars will be paying for the train for the rest of my life, but I will never use the damn thing unless I need a cheap thrill.
Really love this comment! Right on!
OTOH. I really love the trains at the Atlanta airport and Tampa is even better (many airports for that matter). Good design and truely the right use of technology in our American environment!
Nick's prestentation is 'right on'!
Don't you get it? This is what the slaves, I mean volunteers who have been out of work, will do manually… We can't spend all our time building monuments to the king! Duh…
[...] » Reason.tv: 3 Reasons Obama’s High-Speed Rail Will Go Nowhere Fast – Big Governme… [...]
It's not the cost of the rails and trains. They will have maintainence costs to the rails and engines, have to be staffed by government workers who have to be paid, and will have to get big fat union pensions.
We don't need trains– nobody rides them, and the costs are all too large.
.
This high speed rail garbage is an attention diverting ploy to keep our eyes off the really big crap he's pulling. It's never what he says……NEVER.
Here in Wisconsin, our "high-speed" train is set to travel at 70 MPH between Milwaukee and end up at the NW side of Madison, at the AIRPORT. Once there, you will still need to take a bus, cab or some other evil carbon burning vehicle to get to where you ACTUALLY WANTED to go in the first place.
Oh, and would have gotten there faster if you just drove.
im wating to have my daily commute subsidized
sarc
Nick____Thanks again! I wonder how many Segway's this 'gift' of Obama would buy! They really are fun and we could givem to all the inner city folks and eliminate the nasty bus smoke. ____If you folks come to Atlanta check out this private sector business! Course they are in lotsa citiesl but they don't produce nasty CO2 which will 'fry' the earth in another 50 years (errr check with Al Gore for updates, it might be less than 50 years for his Carbon Credit investments to pay off! I wish I knew they were in Berlin when I was there!
http://citysegwaytours.com/atlanta
I'll tell you one thing, this is a FUN mode of transportation!
Power to the People. Everyone has a RIGHT to a Segway and a Hoveround! I didn't have to pay ANYTHING!
And It's not just the cost of the rails and trains.
They will have maintainence costs to the rails and engines, have to be staffed by government workers who have to be paid, and will have to get big fat union pensions and legacy costs. All aboard.
.
But it's for the children.
I been studying/reading on the NWO for 40 years now, that's the first time I heard or seen of that group, thank you for the eye opener on that one.
and BIG BUSINESS, GE and Siemens specifically.
point taken, but why muck it up by showing a steam locomotive when you're talking about diesels? That just shoots your message in the foot.
Gentle Readers,
Dear R Sweeney,
That's true: My analysis was based on ticket sales, yours is based on service. No matter how you add it up, if
AMTRACK were privately run, it would make money.
Only the government would take resources away from underserved NE corridor routes to service places no one wants to go.
Kindest Regards,
John
Except that's a myth. Several studies over decades have looked at this issue and found that trolley systems were not only losing money, but were already been phased out and buses were increased out of necessity.
This summer, I was pricing travel plans for my daughter to go from NY to Florida. The difference in ticket price between Amtrak and an airline was about $50. And the difference of spending 24+ hours traveling vs. about 8 hours. It really wasn't a tough decision to send her by airline.
you can't just add more lanes. that is valuable land that could be used for development. the interstate highway system was a huge investment $50 billion in the 50's. maybe we should take the government out of the highways too and run them by private companies, tolls on every road.
Ten million unemployed, ten million shovels.
Supertrain(the TV show) got far farther than the Obama express ever will.
And what was the #1 transportation mode to get Jews to the Hitler death camps? That's right, rail. After all back in 2006 the story was broke by the NY Times,CBS and others of the contract with KBR to build all of the detention camps which were stated for the purpose of illegal immigration. So how many of the 30 million illegals have been placed in them? NONE! These were built for those evil people who believe in the Constitution and the founding fathers. After all Obama and his commie police state can't have you messing up his plan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/national/04hall...
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article...
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/kbr-awarded-home...
" The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-Thomas Jefferson
That really scares me! The fact that those stones STILL remain erected, today is unfathomable, why have they NOT been destroyed???
I knew there was a reason why he re-signed that Patriot Act, after raising hell about how illegal it was for so long!!! I think I'm going to be sick now…our country has just been royally screwed!!!
I’m not sure what to think
Tru dat!
Um if your friend got paid $800 for two days of training at a luxury hotel then her training was different than my neighbor's. He's retired and wanted something to do. We talked about what he did as a canvasser (the people with the GPS's verifying addresses) and as an enumerator (when he goes door to door to talk to people).
His training was held at a local firehouse (no charge to the Census Bureau). Training sessions for other areas were held at similar locations, like city halls or county facilities.
While training and working, he was paid the hourly rate for our area, which I think was about $13/hour, plus he got mileage.
The Census is mandated by the Constitution. If you just answer the 10 questions and send the form back, then you won't receive a visit. Here's the questions: http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive... .
There really was nothing wrong with the Patriot Act (except for terrorists).
John, AMTRAK or "AMTRACK"?
The high-speed rail thing is also a way to give money to his supporters.
This is going nowhere but the toilet bow.
I would might be OK, though if the FEDs took over a lot of rail lines and operated them more like the interstatess through use taxes, but only for slower freight trains. We could do a lot there as they are much more efficient that 18 wheelers on long hauls, and 18 wheelers do most of destruction of our roads.
The rail companies are poorly managed and have monopolies because they own the tracks.
The train no one will ride……makes the bridge to no where look like a winner!
"and the justification and claims for it sound made up",…………yes they do tkg,…….soooooooo
we should definitely subsidize the hell out of it, look forward 10 years, Biden can be the algore
of choo-choo's. What has the AGW hoax cost the US economy, boggles my mind to contemplate.
Although the subsidies might create jobs, they are 'make-work' jobs, that have no real long lasting
effect on our economy. Reminds me of the Census worker who hand delivered my form yesterday
morning, definitely a 'make-work' job. What the hell was RFD system designed for? BTW I had the
damn thing completed & ready to mail in before she could get back to town (2.25 miles).
i agree that the Patriot Act was a good thing…I was stating that the Democrats raised hell about it, until it server THEIR purpose!
In order to save our country as we know it. We must purge both the Democratic and Republican parties of the Elitist Liberals and Progressives.
We must elect non career leaders that will enact term limits so they do not become career Politicians.
I am donating, and encourage others to donate to Conservative ( I do not mean progressive) primary candidates all over the country.
If we are to survive we must take control of our country.
Political Links
Nobody is 100% wrong,… even Obama…..
If the intent of a high speed rail system is to eliminate cars, then forget it,…..never happen.
If, on the other hand, it can eliminate small air traffic trips (i.e, Chicago to St Louis) then I think it is a good idea.
That's of course if the entire endeavor is a private enterprise one, and that we all know….
will also never happen.
Amtrak has used $35 Billion in subsidies since 1971. Big deal! The U.S. Highway Trust Fund is going to be injected with $20 Billion of general revenue treasury funds next week when Obama signs the new jobs bill. That's right, highways in the U.S. will be subsidized by general revenues (more than half of Amtrak's subsidy since its founding), not paid for by fuel taxes. How much did the useless Iraq war cost? 1 Trillion or so. What good was that war? Did it improve my life at home in any way? Did the "reason" thinkers oppose that war boondoggle and clear abuse of government power? At least Amtrak provides a services we can all use here at home, especially in the congested corridors in the U.S. like the northeast. I think traffic would be much worse on Interstate 95, especially on Monday mornings and Friday evenings, if Amtrak did not exist.
Peak Oil is coming, sooner than most people believe it is coming, so using efficient rail travel is going to increase in the U.S., not decrease, and the decades of investment in passenger rail will be looked upon as good planing as gasoline prices soar, and the "Reason" thinkers and reactionary conservatives will once again look shortsighted.
I also can attest that the GPS component is correct, we're very small town, & have heard one
of the folks on the phase 1 delivery of forms, complain she's had many problems getting her
GPS unit to function properly. I may show up on their final map as living 3 counties away.
Saying the US needs a hi-speed rail system like Europe has is tantamount to saying all Kirsty Ally needs to lose weight are a hundred triple whoppers with cheese, each day, to look good. Europe's population concentration serves as a good platform (pun intended) for expensive rail systems. Major cities and towns are much more clustered than they are in the US, serving the majority of the population, thus making it more practical. Also, it's collective political-economic system (tax everything having to do with personal ownership of anything with an engine) makes it impractical to own your own car. Also, a great number of people in Europe have been traveling by rail for over 100 years and are used to it.
Here, in the US, the vast majority of our country is spread out to high heaven. Where would the major stations be located for people to embark/disembark? NYC, Chicago, Los Angeles, Atlanta? This begs for the question of "who this system is actually intended to serve"? If connecting major population centers is important and necessary, then make those population centers pay for it.
Are you a religious person?
If so would you like to see something even more disturbing..?
The Phoenix Light Rail(we prefer Phoenix Area Rapid Transit(PhART)) was pushed by a past mayor of Phoenix, it has far more problems than can be listed. The most glaring problem, the only bathroom on the line is in Mesa(at one end of the line), and another problem you can walk right on the train without paying(they are wondering why they are loosing money).
I'll bet whoever designed the PhART will win the contract for the Obamhaha Express.
Their slogan should read-"You can Hold it".
My friend was also a census GPS'er in WA state last year and did exactly why your neighbor did as far as training. This was something different she said plus she is now living in CO. This trainig was one tier higher than just GPS ing although nothing to do with management and nothing to do with actually asking Census questions. It has to do with properties we live in even though these homes were GPS'ed last year. Even she is confused by all the level of secrecy involved and the fact she had to travel 350 one way to some out of the way hotel when she is close to Denver and surrounding areas.
Religion is pretty corrupt today also…however I am VERY spiritual…I talk to to God daily…:)
Take a look anyway and tell me if this isn't creepy it's pretty short but when it gets going it's super creepy…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5X4NqVi6fc&fe...
Is Engineer Andy going to take us for a ride?
Thanks Missy for that, but now I'm not sure if I'm more paranoid or less.
It sure does set your mind racing at the very least…
When I dispatched trains we always refered to it as Amtrash….It also costs the railroads money to run these passenger trains. The contracts are basically forced on them by the government and it ties up valuable track space that would serve freight trains.
At the controls taking us for a ride will be Engineer B. Hussein.
Amtrash is another FDR style program…thus we must not let anything move through CONgress for the next eight months….
I know lot of folks who use railroads (Amtrak and VRE) for both metro area commuting (and I'm not talking Subways) and city to city commuting. That said, the DC Metro area is rather unusual in the country as far as the way things work here. Personally, I'd like to see an expansion of rail and subway in my area, it would reduce traffic and generally make things work smoother.
Missy, must be a good reason I follow you. There isn’t enough room here for me to let loose, but consider this…I just finished a paper on The Apostle Paul and Apocalypticism.
I did a considerable amount of redaction, historical research and New Testament foraging. That video, just made me… fill in the blank, all inclusive to be sure.
Beyond Creepy!
When localities run things like this they work well, take a look at VRE, which in general is quite stable and has slowly been expanding over the years. Then again, I'm using an example from the DC Metro area, and most major route planners and engineers agree are area is just plain weird when it comes to traffic patterns.
So on a certain level, there's some understandably why Washingtonians think such systems should work elsewhere, in Washington the DC Metra, VRE and Amtrac all work pretty well, or as well as can be expected for an area that has been overdeveloped and has no really sense of good planning for roads…
The signs are there but many people need to be awakened no matter which religion they believe in, google "third temple being built in Israel", very interesting stuff…
While there are good arguments for and against light rail and expanding existing rail lines this is not one of them. This is a pure and simply "guilt by association" falacy. You can use the exact same argument against almost anything. For instance:
"And what was the #1 fuel to get Jews to the Hitler death camps? That's right, petroleum."
Based on this same logic as the above poster, we shouldn't use gasoline because it was used by Hitler. I could make the same argument for water, air, guns, bullets, lead, cars, OR ANYTHING THAT WAS USED BY GERMANY AT THE TIME!
There's a colloquialism for this type of guilt by association argument on the Internet: Godwin's Law, and there's even an informal falacy name for this: Reductio ad Hitlerum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum...
Except the Federal government DOESN'T operate the interstates, the States do. The Fed provides some money to them to help, but the day to day stuff is dealt with by the States.
While you can make a good argument for rail lines to be treated as thoroughfares, and therefor "common land" like roads and many riverways are. That ain't the Fed's purview to manage them, it's the States.
I did spend almost as much time in the Torah as I did anywhere. New Testament doesn't have a lock on apocalypticism. I did see the not always accurate History Channel show last night on the rebuilding of Solomons Temple on the Rock.
Check this out, its about eight minutes sixteen seconds long but worth every second of watching watch it…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5X4NqVi6fc&fe...
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