The Key Health Care Question for Obama
by Morgan WarstlerAs Republicans are preparing for the Press Event with Obama on Thursday, I’d like to see a specific point be made with regard to costs. Something like this:
“Mr. President, our plan removes the barriers to Interstate Insurance sales, so individuals and families can purchase insurance with specific benefits across state lines. We’re sure you are aware with insurance every new benefit mandated with the force the Federal government, will increase costs for every US citizen’s own policy.
“As such, we’d like to go over this list of Benefits / Services currently mandates by the states:*
“Mr. President, you’ll note that there are very few benefits that even 25 of our states require, but there are more than 130 potential mandates. And if all the state plans are forced to cover the same fifty Federal mandates, people won’t actually have any real choice. Republicans believe there have to be both low cost, bare bone plans and plans that cover specific types of patients.
“Why do mandates happen Mr. President? Largely because special interest groups (good people in a state all suffering from the same condition and their doctors and drug makers) lobby their state government to have their problem covered by everyone, so their own costs are lower.
“Who can argue with: If special education for autism is covered, why not home healthcare? If an Osteopath is covered, why not a Psychiatric nurse. If HIV drugs are covered, why not morbid obesity, why not sickle cell, why not an athletic trainer, why not massage. Mr. President, special interests have succeeded in getting ALL of these covered in different states. Do you really believe the federal government can be trusted to say NO?
“Mandates pit patients and their doctors against other patients and doctors. Who’s health is most important?
“Under our approach, each state can impose mandates to serve a specific group, but that is up to them. And under our plan, citizens in those states will be free to shop elsewhere, so mandates do not turn all plans into Cadillac plans. And if someone’s own condition is not covered in their state, they can go get insurance that covers them.
“Mr. President, if CBO agrees that our plan without mandates will keep costs lower, even fora majority of those who are sick, are you willing to leave mandates to the states?”
—-
I want this issue raised, because the common refrain from Obama is without mandates, there will be a, “race to the bottom.”
He means healthy (young) people will go buy polices from Alabama where there very few mandates, so their premiums are low. And as insurance companies start to lose this business from their own state, there will be pressure on other states to lower their mandates or lots of insurance companies will move to Alabama.
This is not true.
The true positive effect: People with a specific condition will go shopping for plans that cover it, this will lead to pools of people with the same condition grouping into the same policies. So we’ll have very specific alcoholism insurance plans and morbid obesity plans that spread the cost of that specific kind of care over that group of people. This does wonders to properly place prices on lifestyles and still provide affordable plans.
In most cases this means many plans will look like “Basic Coverage + 1.” As in basic coverage + maternity. So child bearing age policy holders spread the risk of maternity costs amongst themselves. Yes, some conditions are very expensive to treat, and grouping those patients will lead to very expensive policies. But it is better to see where the prices come out, actually look at the number of suffers, understand the costs and types of treatment, see what the policies actually cost and then where aid makes sense, subsidize those policies when it is warranted.
This also leads to better comparative treatment and better competition amongst doctors. Which Osteopath is not going to accept the insurance that covers many of his potential customers? It is also much easier to show patients with a “Basic + Osteopath” plan the prices local Osteopaths charge, because they don’t have to pour through an online database with all the diseases and doctors – they just see their local Osteopaths aggregated by their insurance policy. This “price transparency” would do much to encourage people to purchase high deductible, tax-free HSA accounts that grow balances overtime. This is truly the smartest kind of policy. It dramatically drives down premiums. When people can easily price shop, and keep the money, we’ll see savings.
Smart states will require Insurance companies to offer multiple forms of Basic Coverage Plus. If CA, NY, TX, and FL require insurance companies to offer 130 different policies of Basic Coverage + (name a mandate), we’ll have true price discovery for each condition / treatment within months. So discussion of subsidies can begin honestly.
A year later, we’ll begin to see people moving towards HSA style versions of those polices because it is the best chance they have saving money for themselves.
The alternative to Basic Coverage Plus, is federal mandates picking favorites and driving us towards Cadillac plans for all.
America needs to see Obama be shown this logic. They need to know the answer to President Obama’s “race to the bottom.” It is wrong.






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89 Comments
government control over everyone's lives is the goal- not 'healthcare'…
For if you cede control of your health to the governement there is literally not one situation that somehow isn't 'health' related. Drive a pickup truck? Affecting your neighbor's 'health'. Have some sporting firearms?
Same logic. And, by all means, don't eat a Taco Bell Grande whatever or drink a giant mocha frappacino,or grow a composting garden, or- take a walk in the park.
Not without having it be regulated, taxed, controlled.
Health care is a simple thing, really. Tort reform, free clinics in the inner city, cover pre-exisiting conditions, allow competition over state lines, tax employee's plans fairly, allow alternative therapies to be covered.
Would save tens of billions.
How long did that take?
Excellent article, very informative. One can oonly hope the geniuses we have representing the republicans are aware of these kind of traps in the Obama Plan. It makes perfect sense. My wife and I are not going to have any more children so why would we want to have a plan that mandates that coverage? Let we the consuming, taxpaying public decide what coverage WE want and pay accordingly. Likewise I don't want to be paying for someones elective gender changing surgery. Not in the plan you say, no now anyway but when your left coasters decide that changing one's gender is not a medical condition of choice, don't be looking for me to pay. I don't likewise want to pay for abortions.
Pass common sense laws or STFU
More of the Same, Only More Expensive
Today at 2:39pm
The President has wrestled control of the health care debate away from Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid by finally introducing his own plan. Unfortunately, the White House’s proposal includes everything we found untenable about the old Senate bill – only this one is even more expensive! This is what you might call putting “perfume on a pig.”
What’s in this “new” proposal? It has the unpopular (and arguably unconstitutional) individual mandate that forces people and employers to purchase health insurance – only this time with much harsher fines on employers who choose not to go along with another expensive government mandate. It has provisions that will make employers think twice before expanding their workforce. It has cuts to Medicare Advantage, a popular program which allows seniors to pay a little more money out of pocket for better coverage. And, of course, it still has sweetheart deals – only this time they’ve been extended even more.
We don’t know what the final long-term cost of this will be because the Congressional Budget Office hasn’t had a chance to calculate costs. We do know that the White House recognizes that its proposal will cost tens of billions more over the next ten years than the already-expensive $2.5 trillion Senate bill. The President promised last July that he won’t sign a health care bill if it “adds even one dime to our deficit over the next decade.” But he’s now proposing a health care bill with uncertain fiscal repercussions that could lead to endless deficits.
The rising cost of care has driven the entire health care reform debate. So how does the President’s proposal address this central issue? Price controls. That’s right: Washington, D.C. wants to give a panel of bureaucrats the power to cap insurance premiums and prices. As Michael Cannon of the Cato Institute notes, “artificially limiting premium growth allows the government to curtail spending while leaving the dirty work of withholding medical care to private insurers.” This leads to rationing. Any economist worth his salt – including the White House’s own Larry Summers – will tell you that price controls lead to all sorts of negative unintended consequences. It’s another step towards government controlled health care and away from the real solution: free market, patient-centered reform.
With a government-growing proposal this bad, it’s no wonder the President wants bipartisan cover for it in an election year. Thursday’s health care summit is already being revealed as little more than a photo-op. The Obama administration still denies the existence of the House Republicans’ health care plan that offers alternative solutions to health care challenges – even though the White House website links right to it.
The President’s proposal doesn’t include pro-free market ideas like allowing people to buy insurance across state lines, giving individual buyers the same tax benefits as those who get insurance through their employers, or instituting real medical liability reform. Despite the “kumbaya” rhetoric, Democrats are making plans to ram this bill through the Senate using a partisan procedural maneuver that will bypass the normal bipartisan debate process.
In the meantime, the White House will continue to ignore Republican reform ideas and cast the GOP as the party of no. That’s a hard sell considering that Democrats still hold the majority in the House and Senate. The only real “gridlock” preventing Democrats from doing what they want is the very real threat of America's voice being heard at the ballot box.
The public is clearly opposed to the Democrats’ health care bills. Americans want to scrap these big-government plans and start over with common-sense, incremental reform. Some on the left have urged Democrats to vote for Obamacare because it’s a foot in the door for universal health care. They understand what’s at stake; so should the rest of us.
The President can perfume this proposal however he wants, but it still doesn’t pass the smell test. Washington should listen to Americans now, or Washington will hear us in November.
- Sarah Palin
If I were able to ask one question to Obama and the Democrats it would be:
If these plans are so beneficial for all citizens then why have the Democrats voted to "opt out"?
If the plans are not good enough for them, they certainly are not good enough for my family.
With all due respects to the author, I've just about heard enough. We, the People have been going through this charade now for well over a year, and it is starting to wear on US. We are under attack from within. Our entire way of life is under assault, and the American way of life, the American dream, everything we were ever taught, and were raised to believe is being summarill discarded and rejected out of hand.
I do not know what more people can do. They have reviled us, disrespected us and denigrated US. They have ridiculed US and called us Tea Baggers and all sort of vile, evil names. And this from our duly elected representatives, from people whom WE pay their wage.
There is something severely wrong in America. America is sick, and Health Care will not fix the sickness……
I wonder, if I go insane from undue stress caused by this Health Care brouhaha, from the uncertainties surrounding it, from being lied to on a dail basis by professional politicians and DC career criminals, can I be covered under Obamacare?
no longer do these policies fail the 'smell' test, they go much farther and they fail the 'gut wrenching dry heaving vomit' test.
I am by all account a very easy going person, not wishing harm on another soul,,,but the kind of stuff that is going on, in plain sight, reviles me right down to my DNA.
I'll take the Massage Therapy but forget mandatory prostate screenings.
Yeah, mandates need to go. I'm uneasy about all of this. I don't like the idea of Republicans aiding in the construction of new bureaucracies, any of which will be doomed to failure.
Govt. mandates, either forced by 'single payer' or enforced via private insurance, result in higher costs, to life and to liberty.
It is revolting.
It is good to see you my friend. I have missed you here. Drop me a line sometime. It is about time for me to get involved in your project. I have some good story material and people ratholed for you.
HSA's and pay for the services you need!
While I wait, I'll just fly my plane around, thinking…………
Another great article. Keep up the good work. I enjoy your informative posts.
The premise behind all of Barry-oh's work that we must highlight and reject is the entitlement culture that is going to bankrupt and destroy our country if left unchecked
Mr. Warstler – I am very impressed by your core understanding of HC issues and your explanation of them. Thank you for your excellent analysis. Please keep it coming. Truth will ultimately shine through.
What you said is so true….it is just to simple, therefore we know that the libs are making it crazy difficult because they are hiding things in these bills for power structures in the government.
NO NO NO NO
great article and chart!
now it would be interesting to see a breakdown of which states mandate what treatment.
There is no healthcare issue. Even discussing it gives the enemy the upper hand. Instead of debating the fact that it is UnConstitutional, we are discussing how to implement it.
Never let the enemy define the terms of the debate.
Obama's "healthcare" is simply a Ba'al-out for the SEIU and other Union healthcare systems that are failing. The rest is just a smoke screen.
There is no healthcare crisis. There is only an Andy Stern crisis.
This is a great counterpoint to the liberal push to have top-down control of prices and coverage. Let people choose the coverage they want at the price they want.
see the link at the end of the post!
Hopefully tomorrow's pitch will fall short and make a greater case against O as the fool and his folly that he is. I hope all the this shite flies back in his face continues to make a mockery of the Joker in the White House. There is no reason this a Health Care reform should put us deeper in debt. But then it is easy to reason out that that is not what the Dims are after…control of our lives to nth degree.
Contradiction?
"…Mr. President, special interests have succeeded in getting ALL of these covered in different states. Do you really believe the federal government can be trusted to say NO?…"
"…understand the costs and types of treatment, see what the policies actually cost and then where aid makes sense, subsidize those policies when it is warranted…"
Again,
"…Do you really believe the federal government can be trusted to say NO?…"
Sorry dude, sounds like a place to start, but you can't have your cake and eat it too…
Risk is inherent when we decide to continue breathing. I have taken risks and suffered losses on a (relative) scale most people wouldn't venture. I still suffer the consequences of past financial risk taking. I don't want a subsidy or a bail-out, or even pity. I was also pretty sick several years ago and no doctor offered a real solution. I used my own brain and figured out how to restore my health so I felt 25 again.
Liberty and responsibility are equal blessings…
Any government mandated healthcare is a suicide pact for freedom. It is the camel's nose under the tent flap. Nothing less. THIS WILL BE AMERICA'S DEATH KNELL! If you don't understand this you are incurably stupid. We are beyond bankrupt with the entitlements we have now. How can any thinking person believe that these arrogant socialist marxist communists mean to do anything but destroy the America we love? ARRRRGHHH!
Absolutely. I agree with everything you've said here.
Here's my issue; if the government attempts to force me to purchase health insurance (or any other product or service) I will not comply.
I fully support any common sense, free market approach to making health care more affordable for more people. But I will not tolerate any government mandate on myself, or on the American People. Period.
Buck up Cowpoke! A lot of us here read your posts, and this don't sound like you! What is wrong with America? We have sacrificed our founding philosophy to a bunch of ME!ME!ME! special interest turds. Don't blame them, however. I know that you know it is the @#$%(##&!!! politicians playing favorites and buying votes with our money. Remember LIMITED government? Too many gave it up for unearned benefits, special privileges or as a way to hamper competitors. Started many a generation ago, too… Not a new part of the game. Difference is, now almost all of 'em are active at the auction block, selling that which is rightfully ours.
Kick back, relax, have a drink and keep telling yourself that it is through our positive actions that we will achieve victory. The fight never ends, and we will need to remind people of what makes this little plot of ours so special, but the enemy has finally revealed itself so as to be clearly seen by most of us. Didn't tell you anything you didn't already know, just thought it might do you good to see it written by someone else…
Make me laugh next time I read you…
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Careful, the magic genie dust is a bit misleading here:
"…free clinics in the inner city, cover pre-exisiting conditions, allow competition over state lines, tax employee's plans fairly, allow alternative therapies to be covered…"
Sounds compassionate but… doesn't explain who pays for the "free" clinics, or who is eligible to use them and for what, doesn't explain what pre-existing conditions are covered, why, or who pays for them, doesn't define "fairly" in regards to taxing employee plans and doesn't have a standard for "alternative" therapies. I am big on natural/alternative medicine which is why I see how that could be a VERY broad category open to too much uncertainty… Too open ended, subject to the arbitrary whims and special interest crap plaguing us today. I don't have the answer, but that ain't it…
Where is Oberst?
[...] Originally posted here: » The Key Health Care Question for Obama – Big Government [...]
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I've said this in the last 4 heath care articles. Its unconstitutional and therefore against the law. PERIOD end of debate. Tip your doorman on the way out..please.
I will leave you with this tonight. It is an excerpt from Ronald Reagans farewell speech:
"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it and see it still."
Ronald Regan said that, and believed it. I believed it also, and still do.
good post
I'm gonna have to say no….if you were an illegal immigrant or any type of minority you would be certain to share in some of the wealth that you didn't earn.
Had to tug at my heart with Reagan, eh?
Never stop believing it, keep trying to revive it amongst the citizenry.
You seem less depressed now, have you landed your plane? LOL!
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True on the open ended point. I admit I glazed over that point… Though I don't want children (we have the schips program) and the infirmed (Medicare and Medicaid) without healthcare, I do draw the line with illegals. How cruel of me, but we must take care of our own before we help others.
Well thank you.
No. I was not depressed, nor do I get depressed. Depression is a form of self centeredness, and I don't have the time, or luxury for that. I do get angry though. I remember what we had, and where we are now.
If you want a quick pick me up, go to the most recent threads on all the Big sites. It is hilarious!
Naw James, he's a racist who wants anyone beneath him to suffer! sarc/off
[...] this article: » The Key Health Care Question for Obama – Big Government Tags: a-simple-thing, allow-alternative, allow-competition, cover-pre-exisiting, free-clinics, [...]
Brilliant!
Not pickin', just don't like stuff too open ended. How much more charitable could/would you be if you paid 20% instead of 45-50% of the household income in aggregate taxation? I think the truly deserving would fare just fine if we weren't forced to pay for government "charity"(patronage).
I ask again, have you seen Oberst Mostrich? Hope I flamed his a$$ out of this forum… Please report any sightings, I want to bury him…
[...] link: » The Key Health Care Question for Obama – Big Government Category: Health & Lifestyle Tags: allow-alternative, allow-competition, [...]
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I haven't seen Oberst Mostrich. But I have rarely seen him come out. Actually as far as trolls go tonight it has been pretty quiet, just a few that I haven't seen before and not very adept. I think I would recoginze Mostrich pretty quickly because of his style. If I see him again I will let you know.
As far as a 20% tax as opposed to what we are paying now, I know our giving would increase tremendously. It would probably double with ease. The wonderful thing about that is money would be spent wisely when you picked your own charities. But of course that is to reasonable….
If what you have isn't enough I have insiders in two major institutions – one's CEO in bed w/ ObamaCare – that have plenty a examples of how to cut costs immediately too.
It's as silly as paying for gas inside Beverly Hills city limits vs. getting it from Persian guy on Brookhurst or Indian guy on Pico.
The savings can be had ASAP. Why the wait Mr. President? Because you don't give a FLYING FIG about saving money.
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Only if 2 Tylenol tablets would cure you. Like me, you are too old to invest resources into.
Otherwise, just remember the song from the movie MASH, "Suicide is painless"
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They will not be able to deny you. Though you will have to go on a waiting list for all those with impending suicidal tendencies. Should be able to squeeze you in just under 6 months, or if you want faster service you can try our 'telephone counselors', the wait for them is only 4 months.
Oh stop with "common sense" and "lucid clearheaded thinking"!
What are you, some kind gainfully employed, tax paying American Patriot?
You dare resist incremental communism? As if!
sarc/off ;p
[...] here: » The Key Health Care Question for Obama – Big Government Share and [...]
Interesting read and it's clear you've put thought into this – perhaps you can talk some sense into others of your geneeration as they truly seem to have no original or rational thoughts.
One question I would pose at the photo op tomm – 'Mr. President, have your heard the people'?
Is this the future of health care in our country?
From the UK Times-
"Patients were routinely neglected or left “sobbing and humiliated” by staff at an NHS trust where at least 400 deaths have been linked to appalling care.
An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs."
So if someone develops an Osteopath issue, they would then have to then buy a new plan (after paying for whatever initial treatment out of pocket, since they don't currently have "Basic + Osteopath + 1 + … + n" insurance), that will cost exponentially higher depending on how rare their condition is, how expensive it is to treat, how many people are in that plan, and how many places offer it.
It also sounds like for every condition and every number of kids you have, you'd need to start shopping for a new plan. And who is going to determine what is in "basic coverage"?
That kind of sounds like a nightmare.
Also, it seems to defeat the whole purpose of group medical insurance, which is to spread the costs of coverage for the unexpected conditions that arise.. The assumption is that some people will need less, some people will need more, and that the healthy are overpaying, and the sick are getting the benefits. The justification for the healthy people to pay more is that one day, they too can and probably will become sick and need the overpayment of the healthy, in addition to the amount they've contributed, to cover their expenses.
Is the fear that we will end up covering irresponsible people, like alcoholics or the morbidly obese? We are doing that already. If not directly with our insurance plans, then indirectly through medical cost increases for the unpaid medical bills of others.
A better solution would be something like a "no claim discount" that most car or homeowners insurance plans provide that would provide a discount for healthy living.
logic fail.
Be very careful about mandating selling health insurance across State lines: Alone, it could mean National healthcare by restricting States Rights to determine what they will and will not cover…it's that simple!
It would automatically lower costs in the most Liberal run States while automatically raising costs in the most Conservative run States–the result would end up being the California/NY-iffication of America.
Republicans should get off this idiocy.
Be afraid, be very afraid!
Obama Rejects Attackers' Cries of 'Socialism'
President Barack Obama launched a vigorous defense of his economic agenda Wednesday, rejecting critics who call his policies "socialism" and insisting he aims to boost U.S. competitiveness abroad.
Speaking to the Business Roundtable, which groups some of the country's top chief executives, Obama called for support of his administration's efforts to overhaul financial regulation and create jobs.
Obama's remarks were set against a backdrop of unease in the business community about his economic and budget policies as well as his legislative drive for healthcare, energy and financial regulatory reform.
"Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, I am an ardent believer in the free market," Obama said in prepared remarks.
Obama said his efforts to enact sweeping legislation to overhaul financial regulations and set caps on carbon emissions to fight climate change were not aimed at thwarting businesses.
"We have arrived at a juncture in our politics where reasonable efforts to update our regulations, or make basic investments in our future, are too often greeted with cries of 'government takeover' or even 'socialism'," Obama said.
There's a story out that O'Bambi has a fallback plan if ObamaCare dies. It will cover half the people for a quarter of the cost. Using sophisticated grade school math, that means he is admitting that half of the spending in ObamaCare is waste.
http://factsarestubbornthings.net
Go re-read. The goal is pooling the same conditions into communities, so the EXACT cost for each one can be:
1. identified, so the
2. risk is spread amongst them, so they
3. can more easily shop to save money,
4. so we can figure out what treatments to subsidize if it is absolutely necessary.
I'd much rather say: We're going to help with X disease, which effects Y people, in Z way, and it is A their own fault or not, going to cost B, and we'll grant to to people who earn C.
On a very case by case basis. The first step to government aid is putting all the common conditioned people together, and pushing them towards a sytem where they are saving money.
We can't in good conscience help people who haven't actually gone shopping for the best price. Everyone must shop for best insurance and shop for cheapest treatment, and then when we know what we're looking at we can figure out who and how to help.
Let's have an honest plan for ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS, a plan with patient's rights, no rationing, no cutting and no death panels (or whatever you call them now). Include ALL Americans, THAT INCLUDES OBAMA (if he is a citizen), OBAMA'S FAMILY, ALL OF CONGRESS and NO ILLEGALS. Since Obama and his puppet Congress have lost public trust it will need to be absolutely clear, transparent (recognize that word?) and open to public discussion until ALL problems are resolved!
If you can't do that then, GET OUT OF OUR FACE!!!
IF THE HEALTH BILL IS SO GREAT, THEN WHY DID CONGRESS SPECIFICALLY WRITE THEMSELVES OUT?
Congress is NOT Included in the Health Bill!
http://usataxpayer.org/?0087652108
Video – Health Bill Facts!
http://usataxpayer.org/?007817814
what we threw out there was a framework for agreement…
Nothing there requires government control of helth care. Free clinics would be a much cheaper alternative than paying for their insurance, alternative therapies (deep tissue massage, etc) can help people actually get better, and so on.
Not having hours to delineate this we gave the 'Cliff's Notes' version…
nor will many others, friend- and the non-compliance on a mandatory health insurance purchase will be HUGE…
I was going to say something here, but dcase was perfectly made here!
Cowboy, scary but so true! My Red, White, and Blue mentality woke up in DaNang, VietNam '69-70! The commoner serving the whims of the elite has been going on longer than I dare speculate! The rich and the elite, who tend to be the Democrats is what this country is all about!
I'm fortunate, I think, because I have the GI Bill, at least for now?
And,—Who's listening?
I do not want the government controlling my life period.
Finally, someone brought this to the discussion. Thanks for the good article.
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"Getting this balance right has less to do with big government or small government than it does smart government. It's not about being anti-business or pro-government; it's about being pro-growth and pro-jobs," he said.
The president's agenda got a boost early on Wednesday from the U.S. Senate, which, in a relatively bipartisan vote, approved a $15 billion package of tax breaks and highway spending that aims to bring down the country's stubbornly high 9.7 percent unemployment rate.
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The bill now goes to the House of Representatives, which could approve the measure quickly for Obama to sign into law.
Obama welcomed the Senate vote.
"This is an important step forward in putting more Americans back to work as soon as possible," he said. Obama and his fellow Democrats are determined to bring down the unemployment rate before congressional elections in November
actually, big health care co.s prefer a "public utility" status to true competition. why? competition necessitates hard work and leads to business uncertainty. PU status means sitting on your duff and watching the mandated % profits roll in while your smaller competitors get crushed under custom made (for you) gov't regulation.
[...] » The Key Health Care Question for Obama – Big Government Share and [...]
should be more blogs out there like this one
thanks, i missed that link.
keep up the great work. there is power in truth.
saw that article too……Great Britain has destroyed themselves with the state takeover of medicine, their open arm policy to radical islamic immigration, and their banning of guns (even those used in self defense).
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