Think Progress: ‘Let’s Not Pay Back China’
by Morgan WarstlerIf there’s anything that should convince China to become more capitalist, and put less faith in socialism, it is American progressives.

Yesterday Matthew Yglesias’ head shook violently and he barked out like Paul Krugman with Tourette’s :
…you could start musing allowed about how many we just won’t pay the Chinese the money we owe them. Or you could reflect on the fact that if the People Bank of China is determined to buy bonds and prevent the dollar from falling at all costs, then we may as well totally forget about the short-term deficit and just not collect any taxes at all for the rest of FY 2010.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe this marks the first time in modern history a liberal has suggested we stop collecting taxes.
Welcome to the naked liberal mind. Technically, it shouldn’t shock us, Matt is just riffing off the subtext of Paul Krugman’s prescription for what ails us – massive inflation. Liberal economics springs forth from this assumption: We just keep printing money to payoff Dem voters until our debts aren’t so big any more.
This is not economics, this is an agenda.
In December, progressive economists were arguing for a “target” of 3% inflation. If they’ll say 3% now, they’ll say 5%, and then 7% soon after. Because when the mask is ripped off, it is really Chavez under there. To wit, it is February and Obama’s serious economists are screaming that Chinese peasants have too much money saved. Those ungrateful job stealing bastards simply refuse to let us devalue their savings – they keep buying our bonds with their ill-gotten gains.
This is legendary social planning economist Steven Cohen story boarding the last decades of the International economy:
As other nations began to develop, moving from agriculture to industry, they needed someone to buy their end products. Peasants in developing countries have little purchasing power, so the United States stepped in and bought “stuff” from all over the world, said Cohen. “We got the government out of the economy” and bought half of China’s GDP. “We imported so much more than we exported that now we cannot pay it off.”
In this cretin’s world view, little yellow foreigners can’t afford the Nikes and iPods they’ve been stupidly making, so to pull them out of the dirt we bought a bunch of stuff we didn’t need or want. And now that they’ve amassed a small fortune of $2 Trillion of our bonds, we shouldn’t feel bad about making it worthless. He goes on:
Ninety-eight percent of economists think a weaker dollar will help the economy, but it is a difficult sentiment to express without being seen as treasonous
The idea is perfectly true if the only economists you know are treasonous and none of them live in China. Here are the editors of The People’s Daily Online:
By January 2010, RMB had appreciated by 21.2 percent against the U.S. dollar and 4.6 percent against the euro, compared to July 21, 2005 when the RMB exchange rate formation mechanism reform was adopted.
(I urge you to read the whole article to get the Chinese perspective on the current state of affairs.)
At least one lefty economist is wiling to admit that we at least wanted to buy those Chinese goods. Here’s Brad DeLong explaining why:
Seventy percent of our current debt happened since 2000. Rising income inequality created a negative cultural pattern where people “overleveraged” themselves to financially compete with one another,
To DeLong the culprit isn’t easy credit brought about by a crappy government monetary policy;the problem is all of us stupidly wanting new Nikes and iPods in the first place. This is a re-occurring theme with liberal economists: people all make stupid decisions, and we need these market intrusions to aid them.
But what of Krugman? In my darkest heart, I suspect, The Conscience of the Liberal really doesn’t care about high unemployment numbers any more than he cares about inflation… I think he just cares about his Nobel Prize.
I think in 2009, Krugman had his little poodle jaws locked on covering 30M uninsured, and there was literally NO economic news that would make him say, “well we can’t afford health care.” Canada could have presented itself in moral surrender and ask to become a state. And Krugman would have insist we adopt their health insurance system to make them feel welcome.
But now, as the people have wised up in 2010, his policy prescription has changed… he still wants to print money, and he says he wants to do it subsidizing jobs.
And in my next post, I’m going to argue Republicans should take him up on the second part of that offer.






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185 Comments
If what we have now is capitalism then let's abandon it. We need to raise tariffs and employ people in this country. We need to produce. The capitalists (rich elites, bankers and the like) have exported our jobs for the bottom line which just results in a race to the bottom. We need nationalism.
Ummm,
Goose step much?
It is government regulation and unions that drive jobs overseas, not capitalism.
yeah, that's the ticket. Stiff the Chinese…
You think they aren't concerned about it? They know what we are doing now- monitizing our debt- is what the Weimar Republic did after the Progressives nailed Germany with reparations that would have kept their nation in indentured servitude for a century.
Paid everyone back in worthless script.
This is how you spend 13 trillion dollars you don't have. borrow it and pay it back with funny money. The Chinese aren't stupid. That's why they are sitting on our debt and buying up everybodies natural resources. Soon they will be the dominant player in that market.
And guess how much we'll have to pay for it then?
Almost. It's government over-regulation, unions and crony-capitalism that drive jobs overseas.
Real free market capitalism works every time, as is evidenced by the US's progression from its inception to 1860.
I love how well educated liberals/progressives understand the difference between "allowed" and "aloud" …
I guess that now, Obama thinks HE is the smartest man on the planet!! Are you kidding me??!! He really does think that the entire WORLD owes him…something??!! Wonder how he would feel if WE just decided NOT TO PAY OUR TAXES!!??
What!? You mean the Dali Bama is not going to "save" us with pretty talk? Say it isn't so.
Sounds an awful lot like http://www.defundanddisobey.com
low labor costs are what capitalism is all about, the soverign consumer benefits from low labor costs. As Mises said "when the consumer wins this is capitalism"
Wrong again dave. It is unfair trade practice and unrestricted trade that drives jobs overseas. You can call it the Reagan/Clinton plan.
Pretty big talk… why don't you just do it? Let's see how bold you really are.
I'll write to you in prison.
This line of thought is intriguing to me. By "Nationalism", do you mean Isolationism, or do you mean global domination? Personally, somewhere deep down in my gut, I have to admit to a sentiment of "Screw the Chinese. What are they going to do if we decide to default?". If they Nuke us, the real estate becomes worthless. They could never win a conventional war against us. We would Nuke their Homeland in retaliation and also Nuke their transport ships. Any way it goes down, everybody loses.
It becomes a matter of honor. Does "saving face" mean sucking Chinese a$$? If it does, I'm not sure I want any part of it. this deserves some serious consideration.
Then we can all do what most public employees do. Work just hard enough not to get fired.
I think I prefer the system we have. Especially if we can keep politicians from sucking money out of it.
This is the stupidest thread yet. Morgan whoever here is quoting some other blogger like his thoughts have any impact on government policy decisions. What a little dork… only possible on a right wing blog.
Protectionism isn't a cure. We need less interference from government, not more.
The truth you don't want to hear is that so long as we have a higher standard of living the jobs will go overseas. Still lower cost to pay somone who lives on a dirt floor than someone who lives in the suburbs here. Guess when that changes. When your lifestyle gets averaged with a billion people living on dirt floors. That is what "free trade" is all about.
I would think that maybe more people would have caught on to this – especially since every globalist in the world LOVES "free trade." You can't rule uppity White Americans who have free time on their hands to question government. Then envision a world of terrified serfs like the old days. And the best way to do that is with "free trade." It has many advantages to them because it is also the justification for all sorts of things like global government to REGULATE this "free trade" (you weren't actually fooled by the "free" in "free trade" were you?
The People Republic of China too… how does a leftist forget "People's"
Our country has been pawned.
dhasselhoff … you blindly follow Michael Moore who is a dis-information agent.
We'll have to revert to Isolationism for enough generations until we are ready and able to re-assert ourselves as the world's greatest super-power. That is assuming we don't want to do it right now.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?
We are still going to flatten you lefty. You are OVER confident. That is a weakness. From now on, we will NEVER let you rest. I promise. I hope it makes you really angry too!
Yes. I think it's a medical condition. Perhaps they should consult a "corpse-man". I'm sure Barry could recommend one! LOL!
i understand "free trade" to mean no govt. intervention in trade and i support this. When you start protecting jobs thru govt. intervention the people who are hurt are the consumers who have to pay a higher price for their goods or services.
wiat a minute, are you advocating not paying back your legal debts, thats a crime
Sue me. lol!
how about a nice game of chess?…
Over Regulation which opens the door to unrestrained ambulance chasing lawyers. who wants to spend time and resources in nefarious lawsuits?
Your math is wrong. It's 5.5 billion people living and eating dirt we're competing against. I never thought I'd agree with you about anything…but there it is. We're up against it. The world has finally noticed the 600 pound gorilla in the room …and it's us! They ALL want a piece of the pie now. The question is: Will we be a bunch of nerds and hand over our lunch money? Or will we do what Americans have always done and kick the bullies asses? The choice is…Barrack Hussein Obama's. Thanks, America!
There was a plan all along by the elitists who own all the central banks around the world and the federal reserve here in the USA. In there plan they put president Nixon up to working out a deal with China so that the elitists and the us dollar and china could secretly divide and conquer the world financially. And there are always stories in the media that have intent to scare and confuse, and to throw us off as to what is really going on.
That doesn't sound very exciting (or traumatic) at all.
LET'S PLAY GLOBAL THERMONUCLEAR DOMINATION. PLEASE ENTER TARGET PARAMETERS NOW.
corruption son…it's called corruption not capitalism.
The rape of the GSE's…you call that capitalism. Well whose fingerprints are on it?
We need to collect on our outstanding loans to the third world countries and pay back china with that money.. oh wait we don't LOAN taxpayers money to the disadvantaged nations… We only do that to US corporations.. we GIVE that money away.
"But what of Krugman? In my darkest heart, I suspect, The Conscience of the Liberal really doesn’t care about high unemployment numbers any more than he cares about inflation… I think he just cares about his Nobel Prize."
Yes. Thank you. I avoid Krug's crap as much as possible but he writes like a man who is desperate to keep his job. And working for a company that is desperate to be relevant. And a company in an industry that is desperate for revenue.
Toxic cocktail. Don't quit your day job Paul. Oh wait. That's the point.
What we have is not capitalism, Ayn Rand style; we have a crony capitalism, zombie capitalism, corporate state, resembling nothing so much as the fascist order. That's why you see bailouts of failing companies, governmental taking over industry, and the growing governmental employment. That is NOT capitalism.
Got that crap out of your union newslwetter, did you?
Being a liberal means never having to understand basic economics.
If the USA does not go a little isolationist for a while and create jobs here, it will split up into 5 or 6 countries.I hope my prediction here is wrong, but I just don't see how the US can pay anything off to anyone.So in a way the whole country will just go bankrupt and scrap itself and tell its debtors,"Too bad, we tried."
Thanks to Hamilton it happened as soon as it was formed…
The article didn't mention what happens if we DON'T pay China back. Off the top of my head, I'd say it would hurt our credit standing and start a trade war, but what else?
Anyone with a good deal of economics savvy, please weigh in!
America was sold out by the Democrats long ago
It worked in Russia when the state realized they could not bust in 300 million doors to get their tax money.And to top it off it got the taxpayers a flat rate tax…
Matthew is borderline illiterate.
"……you could start musing allowed about how many we just won’t pay the Chinese the money we owe them."
Let's fix that, shall we?
"…you could start musing aloud about how maybe we just won't pay the Chinese the money we owe them."
How can anybody take this ignorant goofball seriously?
"Every American WILL have a home!"
Sorry dude, our cost per manhour per productivity still makes us less expensive when you get rid of the stupid regs and ambulance chasers THAT NO OTHER COUNTRY HAS TO CONTEND WITH!
I've been waiting 12 years for my "free" car…said a serf in isolationist Communist Soviet Union.Unfortunately, I think we are closer to a worldwide international business ran fascism.Hope I'm wrong…
It becomes a matter of honor. Does "saving face" mean sucking Chinese a$$?
They have been using our own money to build a military to defeat us. Helped by Clinton who advanced there computer technology 30 years for a bag of cash. Our politicians sucked Chicom behind for years so they could buy there cheap goods that kept inflation down so they could claim credit for a good economy. Now the same political aholes that caused all the damage are riding off to the sunset with fat pensions flipping us off and laughing.
As well as the Republicans, because both sides have been bought by the banking elites.
where is Dr Falken when you really need him, eh?…
The first thing China would do would be to take over Taiwan. The Chinese don't like to lose face.
If we defaulted on our international debts, it would be a lot harder to get imports from most of the world. We'll probably have to pay for them with gold. Ft. Knox does have a lot of gold. However, there will be a few very hard years until the system stabilizes.
Most of the world's elites have significant amounts of dollars stashed away for a rainy day. They'll hate us for making them lose their investment. Probably we'll see an increase in anti-US rhetoric, and possibly actions. More terrorist attacks. A lot of unrest in places that are already not very stable. More civil wars.
China got this debt, at least partially, to have something to use against the militarily superior, and therefore threatening, US. If they couldn't have that, they might redeploy their factories for military production. This would increase the risk of a Chinese war against Taiwan, and eventually against the US. The US is likely to win such a war, but at the price of several nuked cities.
Maybe I just don’t understand economics, but I think that if the People’s Bank of China is buying bonds for the purpose of preventing the dollar from falling then there is a problem! Here is the way I see it (I’ll just use the yen and dollar). With an exchange rate of $1=100¥, let’s say a product costs $0.80 to produce in the U.S. and sells for $1. In Japan the product costs 80¥ to make and sells for 100¥. Neither product has a market advantage. Now let’s say U.S. economy crashes (hypothetically) and the dollar weakens to $1=50¥. The U.S. product sells for 50¥ in Japan compared to 100¥ for the Japanese product, and the U.S. product sells for $1 in the U.S. compared to $2 for the Japanese product. U.S. product sales increase, U.S. economy recovers, and the balance comes back to $1=100¥. China’s actions of not allowing the dollar to drop will prevent this correction from occurring. A true free market will always balance itself, but intervention such as this is not good.
Hey, if it's good enough for Charlie Rangel and Tim "Tax Cheat" Geithner, it's good enough for Americans!!
Wonderful idea……the Chinese have been stiffing everybody for years now…….They still owe us for liberating their pathetic as.ses from the japanese……..They owe us blood and money…..ef em……..Half their country has no electricity or clean water…….the desert will bury Peking in thirty years…….
Agreed. I would think non-payment of debts is the stuff that wars are made of.
…you could start musing allowed about how many we just won’t pay the Chinese the money we owe them.
What more proof do we need that we're dealing with ignorant children and adults with arrested development?
Gee, that's a great way to restore confidence in the American dollar!
Don't pay people back, and I'm sure other countries will be running to do business with us and invest in our currency.
Dear einy,
You're right! I can't imagine where that 98% number came
from! Almost ALL ECONOMISTS HATE INFLATION!
Want to see an economist break out in a cold sweat?
Sneak up behind them and say the word
" Inflation ".
Honestly, economists virtually all agree on sound
monetary and fiscal policy.
Kindest Regards to all,
I am,
John Lepant
Brighton
Colorado
mikatollah has such arrogance and self confidence in his leftist beliefs that I find amazing, considering he was a fighter pilot…..just like Murtha was a Marine. Where do these guys go astray and join the Ayers and Soros's of the world???? How do these supposed "patriotic" men join the enemy? I thought once you pledged your allegience to the Constitution, NOTHING else mattered. It's very depressing to know that the "OATH" means nothing to them.
They would rather join the " crotch saluter" than patriost who hold our Flag as the ultimate symbol of greatness. They would rather join the "commies" in trying to bring this great country to her knees because of some sort of misguided, Alynsky philosphy.
For SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! mikatollah. For shame. What happened to you?
Gentle Readers,
Here's the real trouble: Our Chinese friends have a trade deficit with every single country in the world, except for the United States! They sell goods here, get dollars, and use the dollars to purchase imports: oil, food, materials,
technology, etc.
Some people say they also use trade strategically to support their foreign policy. Easy to do if you're bringing
in money to buy things.
This has created a global trade imbalance. The USA runs a huge trade deficit with China, then China runs a deficit with Russia, Japan, Europe, Africa, OPEC countries, etc.
China hoards dollars because they want to be able to purchase commodities they import and they seek long
term contracts: 20 years for oil imports, as an example. To assure these long term contracts, they keep large
dollar reserves.
So whats the solution? Beats me, but that where things stand at this moment.
Kindest Regards to all,
I am,
John Lepant
Brighton
Colorado
try wal mart and 500% profit, thats who drove all the jobs over seas. talk to the company workers that lost jobs as NAFTA turned into wal mart / china.yes the gov. regs. and unions added to the cost of products but you got quality products and crap that did not kill your kids. look at wal marts fruit and veggies. all mexico, did you know mexico uses DDT. the government you talk about was bill clinton, he sold AMERICA to china. wal mart jumped in bed with china selling small businesses to china. WHAT if china said pay up today or we stop exporting. in one month we would be out of everything. just think about it YOUR KIDS BASEBALL IS MADE IN china.
Well, in that case, there's nothing left to do but play the hand we're holding. sounds like war to me!
Good luck with that. The smart money is with the 5.5 billion.
What do you have in mind Dhasselhoff — a gentler kinder kind of Communism? Communism is responsible for more deaths and human suffering than all the other “isms” combined.
I was hoping I wasn't the only one who noticed.
Did you consider inserting (sic) into the original, then get tired just thinking about it?
http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
The Chinese are already nervous about all the US debt they hold. This kind of talk will make them more uneasy, and cause interest rates to rise.
My weakness is that I care too much. I'm a giver…
I wish there was somebody on this list who could discuss economics, but it's too much to ask. The problem is no one here ever went to college, so the first exposure you get to the subject is on right wing blogs and you just don't have the background to ask the right questions. Even google is some kind of liberal plot to you people.
Try and stay focused. We live in the United States… not Russia.
Funny how you call it "low labor costs" and not "low wages." What do you think is the overall health of this nation if everyone was paid low wages? Lower standard of living.
Spend a lot of your day on left wing blogs do you? I didn't think so…
The war thing may be a viable option, since a Chinese take over of world domination is a less attractive one..
However, since nobody here wants either. let us pay this debt back…
But on a time table that is to is to our advantage.
I never went to college, did I?
It's kind of pathetic the fictions liberals tell themselves just to
maintain their childish self-delusion of superiority.
First off, Reagan never indulged in unrestricted trade.What exactly do you describe as 'unfair trade practice', this is a phrase that's not used in classic economic studies, being a liberal construct as an excuse to, indeed, drive trade overseas, to rectify perceived 'wrongs' to 3rd world nations, largely.As far as NAFTA/WTO Clinton is the one who passed all of these atrocious affronts.WTO replaced GATT, which was instituted in 1947 and had a narrow focus of reducing tariffs on manufactured goods.Clinton passed the WTO agreement in 1995, which put much more power over our exporting economy into the hands of an international body which isn't answerable to our Constitution or our own Business Law.Our problems right now do relate to the obnoxious idea that "Keynesian Economics", i.e.-spending our way out of a recession, is going to work. The biggest experiment of this kind failed horribly-The GReat Depression. This is, indeed, 'Facist Economics'.You shouldn't put people down about economics, your own understanding is lacking, I sense you went to college a long time ago, perhaps you're rusty. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Let's just say that so far, I'm unimpressed.
Bottom line~ The U.S. has the highest production rate per hour coupled with the highest quality rate per piece of manufactured goods. This in spite of the fact that organized unions have allowed/bred the idea of working just enough to keep your job. Reagan should have finished the job of busting unions. Agreed, at one time unions held an important place in American manufacturing, those days are long past. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
It must have been 10 liberal economists in a room, 9.8 of them wanted to embrace a weaker dollar in order to 'level the playing field', the ultimate result being to reduce the U.S. to 3rd world nation status.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Where is Andrew Jackson when you need him? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Progressives want other countries to be ALLOWED to plunder our wealth, and they state this ALOUD.
,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Yeah, too many damned progressives in the U.S., including our 'progressive ' income tax.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
BHO isn't even the smartest person in his own head. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
China is economic sanctions away from a civil war. If we disrupt trade with them it would throw millions of Chinese out of factory work with nothing else to do but question their government.
If it really bothers you that much, why stay? I don't get it, mika. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Actually, this is exactly what happened. The US, ever since the beginning of "free trade", built a system whereby we would lift the entire world with our wealth, and at the same time crush the American worker with low wages. Free trade has completely run the United States right into the ground.
I've spent plenty of time on lefty blogs, I've got accounts on HuffHo and rumproast. The posters on those sites are the rudest, most ill informed dregs of society you'll ever come across. Why do you judge others so harshly, you don't even know them. It seems you'd be more at home on the lefty blog sites. Why waste your time here? Have you ever been to a lefty blog site? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
I'm just a man of the people Hanzo. I stay because there is work to be completed here.
Do you guys remember back 10 or 15 yrs ago when WalMart advertised how many of their products
were made in the US. They even had tiny little US flags on merchandise. For years I wouldn't buy any-
thing made in China, I read the labels on everything, if it was made in China I left it in the store. The
last 3 or 4 yrs I can't find anything that doesn't come from China. I was in a store & came across some
polished rocks, they were made for floral arrangements, but I wanted them for my shower floor, cost
about .99 / 1lb bag, they were from China. When did we get so hard up we can't polish our own rocks,
or were these rocks from the US that had been shipped to China, polished & shipped back? What is the
shipping cost of a 1 lb sack of rocks? How does this make any sense? How many 1 lb sacks of rocks
does it take to load one of those shipping containers? Who makes these decisions? I'm perplexed!
Um, call me crazy, but how about this? 1:Cut. The. Budget. 2:Cut .Spending. 3. Cut. Borrowing.
4.Cut. Congress: Maximum 2.5 days per week, at a max of 100 days per year. They pay for all travel, staff and supplies out of their own pocket. Sure they won't get anything done, but they'll do it for a lot less money.
No, Hamilton was overruled, by Washington and Jefferson, as well as others. Hamilton was a war hero and fought with great heroism and valor. However, he turned out to be a consumate politician. After losing the presidency to John Adams Hamilton sunk to the politics of personal destruction. Aaron Burr made sure Hamilton paid for his intransigence, mortally wounding Alexander Hamilton in a duel, in 1804. Hamilton was largely responsible for the formation of the first national bank, which has since morphed into the Federal Reserve(which I'm sure is what you're refering to). Andrew Jackson was the next president to return fiscal sanity to our economic landscape, banishing the central bank and ushering in a very prosperous time until the central bankers of the world almost sent us into a Depression.Andy Jackson never bent to their will, and under his presidency actually reduced our national debt to zero. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Love the avatar, Floyd. BTW, that's supposed to be PWN3D(with the capital letters and the #3), my 15 year old daughter pointed that out to me when I used it once.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Huffington post will shut you down pretty fast for ad homs. You pretty much have to stay focused on the topic. As for them being rude, bloggers will be bloggers. It's the nature of the beast.
I agree Ori. However, there's probably not enough gold in Ft.Knox to cover our debt, as all countries would attempt to call in their outstanding bonds if we defaulted against China. At least we'd see who our true allies are, eh? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Well, ghost dosen't make a lot of sense, offering no proof. All we have to do to point out overwhelming democrat culpability is to point to FDR, facist to the core. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
I suppose about as seriously as we can take some goofball who pronounces corpsman as 'corpse-man', eh?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Don't be so simplistic. China didn't buy American debt benevolently, it's economic warfare.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Ok jim, what about the rosie situation that will occur if they convert their purchased debt into euro's, to make it the currency of trade, as they bluster and threaten to do so frequently? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Riiight, tell that low wages thing to the AUW forlift driver who makes essentially $70/hr once bennies are taken into account.
My husband has a pivotal corporate job that has people from around the world seeking his opinion, but he doesn't make anything like that. I suppose I should be whining about his low wages?
Yes, they print away our debt and inflation skyrockets. The government and rich elites come out of it strong, but the populace of the nation is hosed.
No, not really. The rhetoric that China engages in on an almost daily basis, threatening to call in all of the American debt they own and attempting to make the euro the currency of choice for international trade,while having a worse and much farther reaching effect, wouldn't neccessarily make them uneasy. The Chinese indulge in economic warfare daily.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Yes, their motto was, at first, 'Made in the U.S.' WalMart was actually sanctioned by the government because they were caught relabeling merchandise made in China as being made in the U.S. Now their creed is 'lower prices'. Astounding. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
They won't get anything done.Ahhh, for the good ol' days of 'gridlock'!! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Who said I used ad homs? When I post on HuffHo and rumproast I go out of my way to ensure I post my comments in a very sentient, lucid fashion, go there and look up my comments. As for rumproast, they allow their posters to use outright profanity with no consequences. The last time I posted on rumproast(last week), I posted 10 comments, no ad homs, no profanity. My comments must have made too much sense, thay took down 8 of them after I had replies. Also, rumproast actually posted my comments on their home page in order to make sure the vermin would go straight to my comments first!! Lefty's are very intolerant, indeed. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
"Ninety-eight percent of economists think a weaker dollar will help the economy, but it is a difficult sentiment to express without being seen as treasonous"
98% of who? What country? Sure as hell isn't this one…Maybe the question should be what planet???
"Seventy percent of our current debt happened since 2000. Rising income inequality created a negative cultural pattern where people “overleveraged” themselves to financially compete with one another,"
To financially compete with one another huh…? Or was it just to easy to max out 8 credit cards, and to get blessed with an ARM mortgage you could never afford to begin with…Seems more like a lax credit industry more so than any kind of competition. The only financial competition I have ever seen in our society, by the working class that is, is to see who can save the most, the quickest so they can F'ing retire…What ever…
You're really burning the airwaves tonight Hanzo. Since your up, do you happen to know anything about blogs? I'm trying to set mine up and I am having a hard time of it.
My friends, it is time to make being a progressive come with a price. We must call these fools out on every single thing they do or say. We must ridicule their ridiculous arrogance and elitism. We must put them on the BOTTOM of the social strata where they belong. Revolution? Indeed!
Fight on brave Americans! You are still the best last hope for the world! FIGHT!
Not as much as L4S, ask him, I've seen quite a few comments around by him tonight. ,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
What is your main issue with setting up your blog?
Thanks, I will do that. My main problem is getting the top bar pages to work. You know, the "About Us", "Contact Us", "Profiles", etc… I can't get them to work. Plus I had some questions about how to set up the whole advertising and donating stuff like all the other bloggers do.
I guess I just got tired of commenting. Plus I found out some information on James Cameron that was really bad and nobody would help me publish it. Nobody. So I decided to do it myself. I can't believe people would protect this guy at the expense of children. Unbelievable. Anyway, thanks. I will go find L4S. You are the BEST!
PS: If you ever want to write anything…
A major problem in this country is that a lot of people are being paid inflated wages and benefits and overpriced themselves out of the market, coupled with the fact that America's standard of living is also built on the accumulation of massive consumer debt. On top of that, we have large numbers of people lacking the necessary education and skills to make it in a ever changing job market. So whose fault is that? It's a person's responsibility to insure his or her employment value. If we paid high wages to everyone beyond their value in the market, we would end up subsidizing their jobs through higher consumer prices! So what does that mean for the average American? A lower standard of living! And another thing, Fonzie, stop putting your foot in your mouth with silly comments about Mises.
Thanks for the offer, probably will take you up on it, as I've been musing about starting a blog myself. Right now I'm on another site called 'Friends of the Constitution', excellent site. You can find Looking4Sanity tonight on the article "Terrorism Critics Admonished By Obama Security Advisor", just tell L4S I sent you his way, he's a friend of mine. He's the most proficient person I know in the field of which we speak. Good luck!! See you around!
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
You don't read much if you think this doesn't happen on leftist blogs, or you're just lying about something you don't like because you're more enlightened than the rest of us rubes.
Funny how the lives of the "Lowly Workers" actually improve when real "Free Trade" not "Highly Government Regulated Trade" is practiced. Just like when you "Cut Taxes" in a significant way The Economy Grows and Expands instead of trying to pass off "Extremely Limited Targeted Tax Credits" as the solution. The "Lowly Workers" get raises or have other places to go to find employment that pay more.
Shouldn't that read "Let's Not Pay China Back"?
The US is not much of an example of a free-market economy. Virtually everything in the US is regulated except for some acts in the categories of sex and reproduction. Agriculture has been heavily subsidized and regulated since the New Deal. Yet it is one the few sectors where the US has a balance of payments surplus.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE55P4ZT20090...
(…)
The world's largest economy can no longer count on consumer spending to drive demand, nor can it rely on Wall Street financial wizardry if it wants its population to continue to enjoy a high standard of living, the head of the largest U.S. conglomerate said.
"We should clear away any arrogance, false assumptions, or a sense that things will be 'OK' just because we are America," Immelt told the Detroit Economic Club. "Our competitive edge has slipped away and this has hit the middle class hard."
The U.S. should work to have manufacturing represent about 20 percent of employment, more than double its current level, he said.
(….)
(part 1)Well you see Hanzo, Mika spends no time on the Lefty blog sights because that's not his job. He's being paid to troll the talking points of the Cabal on our venues…
I've had a few exchanges with Mika and over the last couple of months and I've come to doubt that our dear lefty friend is who he says he is. His absence from the lefty sights being the latest sign of possible deception.
First off, he's got an accomodating, "I was one of you, but now I've seen the error of my ways and sought truth" vibe about him. He's correct enough around the "edges" of core philosophies that we are willing to engage him in an honest debate. Then he slams the door shut with ad homs about conservatives, "not being educated," or "we're stupid…"
Then he gets amiable again–to lure us back in–it's really the same passive-aggressive psychology used by abusive husbands on their wives…
(part 2)
Also, his "talking points" are always spot on, and his forays into political and economic philosphy are always wrote "Cabalspeak," peppered with the supreme condecension of the dirtyfoot, lefty academic.
As to his claims of military service, I have my suspicions after a recent post where he defended Murtha–real vets despise the man…So, my dear Hanzo, beware the paid Commucrat operatives that work these sights. Cointelpro is real, and the Leninistas love
There is a simple answer to the China/US trade problem. First what does China have low labor cost, second what does China need energy ie. OIL !!!!!
Drill drill drill pump pump pump and sell it to China!!!! Get the price of OIL ti 15USD a barrel, a number of things happen, China gets off coal and stops polluting, the US eliminates it's debt, employment in the US goes up with good paying oil field jobs, US gains a stratigic advantage over China, energy cost drop world wide and last but not least the defunding of torrorism supporting countries, ie the Middle East, South America.
Trust me i live in China it would work beyond our wildest dreams!!!! They would love to get rid of the debt!!!!
Happy New Year the year of the tiger.
post script!!!
China ia more capitalist than we are!!!!
Why not? Obama still hasn't payed the bills from his campaign.____http://charlesbaron.blogspot.com
In many ways, I tend to agree with you. I think most westerners view China as being only a land of farming peasants or lowly paid laborers. In reality, a huge middle class of consumers is emerging and this is evident by the number of automobiles being sold… which require fuel. A drive from Shanghai to Hangzhou demonstrates this quite well.
Also, from a consumer's stand point, the upper, middle class of China want more western made goods- from the USA and Europe. They openly state the desire for quality, but you and I know it is also for prestige.
One point, L6, the laborers are the consumers.More than likely, you meant low production costs, reached when there aren't government regulations, mandates, etc. in the way of profitability=bottom line. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Progressives, not Dems or Republicans sold us out and still are.
Our Dollar is tied to oil. The Chinese want their "Yen" (whatever) tied to oil instead of ours.
First of all, we never should have borrowed money from China! We print our own, right? Our money problems originate with the Federal Reserve System because it charges interest. We must realize that no currency or credit is issued, or put into to circulation, for the interest portion of the loan. The problem starts with the very 1st transaction.
The Chinese are thinking Long Term, while most of us Americans are thinking short term. Since you live there could you verify this for me? Long term for us is like planning for our retirement. Long term for them may be like thinking of the Grandchildrens future.
I heard that they are pushing for having their "Yen" tied to oil, instead of our US Dollar being tied to oil.
We haven't had capitalism for many decades. How can anyone think America has had a capitalistic economy when the government operates on fiat currency? It's time for America to quit smoking pot and start reading a few books on economics.
That's an excellent point that isn't discussed enough.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
It's not a judgement issue then?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Wrong again Commie. I have two degrees and have taken several economics courses. It's the fact that I agree with Adam Smith and not Keynes that has you confused. And before you even ask, I graduated Magna cum Laude.
"The truth you don't want to hear is that so long as we have a higher standard of living the jobs will go overseas."
Sorry. That's just not true. It's production costs and corporate tax rates that drive businesses overseas. Cheap labor is only one aspect of production costs.
Much to my chagrin.
You claim to be college educated and the rest of us not to be, yet you can't understand that the example applies regardless of country? Or is it that you were being willfully stupid since it destroyed your previous post?
Was it our "Free Press" or our ever shrinking de-centralized government that gave it away?
Oh crap! You mean he's not alone in there? Gaaa!
Yes. The devil's work is never done. And you're such a loyal employee. Don't worry. Pay day is fast approaching for your kind.
Go to LickaToada's profile and pick any page at random. They're ALL full of progressive bile and every one of them is posted right here on Big Gov. Once you look at everything he's said it will become obvious who and what he is. He's a student of Saul Alinski and a spawn of the devil.
Funny. I would never have guessed reading your posts. They read much like those from the angry high school dropouts who dominate the discussions here.
So I'm skeptical.
Problem is you can read 10 books on economics and get 10 different opinions !
He does not know that real education begins when you GET OUT OF COLLEGE!!! A Liberal will remain a Liberal until HE gets mugged! It just takes a Liberal so much longer to GROW UP!
I wouldn't know about that because I don't believe in disembodied spirits… good or evil.
I think it is all us and our human need to have someone to blame for our failings. A devil is good guy to blame because he is all evil and nasty. And frightens children…. and undereducated adults.
He has joined the ranks of a great General: Benedict Arnold…
It's all any of us have to look forward to. So we should all make the most of the short time we have on the earth.
At least you are staying in character.
So Mikatollah, who's your source of economic knowledge? Howard Zinn? By the way, how many economics courses did you take in college? I took Macro and Microeconomics plus an analysis on planned economies, and the economics of healthcare. But hey, you don't need to formally take economics in school in order to understand how the process works. There are an awful lot of smart, educated people who subscribe to your misinformed views, and many of them are in fact, economists.
Can you please explain to me more thoroughly why you are so bigoted, prejudiced, and racist, because if you are stating that individuals who believe in a religion are "undereducated adults" then you believe that Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr was undereducated and not as enlightened as you. Just saying.
Believe what you want and don't be concerned what I think of you.
Licka Toada, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha …..MAJOR LMAO!!!! Me likey. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
I don't know about hoping for Andrew Jackson – he founded what turned into the modern Democratic party, and was pro-slavery.
At least Benedict Arnold was a true hero before he became a traitor. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Hi badcrow, I've been dealing with ol' mika since the begining, and yes, you're spot on. I never expect him to present a cogent train of thought, he rails against ad homs while indulging in their use as soon as he is schooled(right off the bat).I cannot tell you the number of times I've personally turned him on his head, without getting animated. I use mika as practice, debating an issue and presenting my winning argument while watching him go down in flames, casting ad homs as he goes down.You'll notice I'm probably the only one who tries to remain civil with him, it's hard because he is such a poltroon, and a facist/progressive.Keep up the good work.Fight the Good Fight! See ya' around.,,,,,,,,Hanzo
Hmmm, well you do have one point there, AJ was pro-slavery, as were many of his contemporaries. Not to excuse that issue, he was spot on in the rest of his political aspirations. To label him as the 'Father of the Modern Democrat Party' is a misnomer, however. AJ was vehemently anti-special interest, anti-central government, anti-central bank,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
pro-small business, pro-defense, etc., etc. He was very much a modern day Conservative, except for slavery.The only issue I can think of today that is as egregious, or more so, is abortion. Thanks for the reply, good point, well taken.
I read one of your other posts below – he did eliminate the debt, an astounding accomplishment and not something that would be possible today. He was a complex individual and had his good and bad points as you've ably pointed out. And of course, his military accomplishments were also of great merit. As with many other Democrats of his day, probably up to the 1960s and maybe even into the 1970s, they would be more Republican today than modern Democrats.
Hey, last night a poster asked if I could help with a blog site. I told them that you are much more knowledgeable in that field and I directed them your way, hope you don't mind. I checked out the blog site and guess what the main focus is? Constitutional issues, ha ha!! The site is pretty good, although in the fledgling stage. The posters screen name is bet0001979 and seems to be a very sincere and nice person. The site is thespsulareview.blogspot.com/, check it out.ttyl. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
I heartily agree, my friend. To take your point a bit farther, AJ would be more Republican
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hanzo
than many of todays Republicans!
go south till you smell crap, go left, when you step in crap you`re home – chavez land – you can probably work as a government news director.
read some Mises and find out the answers to your questions, i reccomend "the anti-capitalist mentality" for starters then the great book he wrote "Human Action" i guarantee he will enlighten you.
I think private sector employees should have the freedom to collectively bargain but not public sector employees. As long as there are businesses, workers should be free to pursue any legal strategy to get the biggest piece of the pie that they can. Its their private business between them and their employer and nobody elses business.
your approval means everything to me
war disrupts trade and causes prices to go up, peace is the prescription for prosperity
Who are you?
Rand said earth has not yet seen true capitalism
read Ludwig Von Mises if you want the truth
socialist entrepreneurs great idea is "rationing", not increasing your standard of living but decreasing it, socialists make me sick!
john Galt
Nice to meet you John. I'm Mike Stock
I had a friend in college named Mike Stock, is that you you Mike? where did you go to college?
I graduated from Parkland College in Champagne, IL in 1978 and then College of Charleston in South Carolina in 81.
Could we have met in the Air Force?
Charleston was an interesting place to go to school. It is the oldest public college in the U.S. It spend most of its life as a private school but began accepting state money in 1969. I had a classroom building that was built in 1789 and the floor was so warped a marble would not stay still. But the majority of the campus facilities were very modern.
I haven't been back since hurricane Hugo hit in 1989. I've heard from friends that the entire downtown Battery area was damaged which included much of the college. There was plenty of federal money made available for rebuilding and the school is still going strong.
Then the only thing you have to look forward to is your Grave…Educated but not intellegent…
All the bullshit aside, we should not be spending more than we are taking in. Especially when we are already trillions in the hole.
You mean all this is Nixon's fault! What about Bush? At this point he may feel left out of a giant world domination conspiracy.
naw, me and Mike went to VCU 1984, did you like charleston?
Well, it may not lead to getting nuked by the Chinese, but it will mean major economic and financial crisis in the United States. Given the U.S. government's propensity for using borrowed funds for unproductive purposes (i.e. for political benefit), I doubt any friendly country would want to extend loans to us, afterwards….
So you could just imagine how we feel….Thoughtful economic analysis and carefully crafted opinions are not the first things that come to mind when reading your posts.
"YOUR KIDS BASEBALL IS MADE IN china," says "rikr." And my New York Yankees jacket is made in Korea, and I have other assorted clothing made in Bangladesh, the Philippines, El Salvador, etc. Well, even these people need to make a living, and they often don't have the benefit of a generous welfare system.
"but you got quality products and crap that did not kill your kids…." So, are you suggesting that American only turns out "quality?" I don't think so…and besides, if what you are inferring to about Chinese products is even true, the health situation in the U.S. would be far worse than it is right now, and the same would apply all over Asia and the rest of the world.
"look at wal marts fruit and veggies. all mexico, did you know mexico uses DDT."
If what you say is true, then perhaps DDT isn't as bad as we thought, and you conveniently ignore to mention that the Food and Drug Administration inspects food coming from other countries to insure that they are safe for consumption here in the U.S.
Yes, I suppose we could try being like Rip Van Winkle…lol
Sorry but we are not in any position to dictate terms unless we can prove to the satisfaction of our creditors that the U.S. can and will demonstrate fiscal responsibility. Given our track record, don't hold your breath….
Under the scenario you describe, things can get far more complex and unstable. It won't likely turn out the way you think…..
Well, we would have to find out first that Dali Bama's teleprompter is not made in China…lol
might be a good thing to quit runnin around beggin for money, what is our country a bum beggin on the street
[...] [...]
…so they can pay us back with our own funny money?
I agree with your opinion on tariffs, and yes, WE DO NEED THEM. However, I don't know if you know this but, John Stossel had his show 'Stossel' on FBN (Fox Business Network) do a special on Free Trade a few weeks ago and suggested that Free Trade, not barriers, were more the trend today. However, what he failed to mention was that farmers need tariffs for their goods for protection. And our Founding Fathers, including Jefferson of all people, believed in high tariffs, though according to a Ron Paul web site, Jefferson also did away with all direct taxation on the federal level with states determining their own way to raise tax revenue, making him the first President in our nation to implement Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution. Thus, he was called by Libertarian Wayne Root, our greatest libertarian President ever. And please pardon me for saying this, but isn't nationalism a form of Big Government? Or is it?
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