The Case For Recall Reform In Wisconsin
by Media TrackersSince February, recall elections have been on the minds of nearly everyone in Wisconsin.
And while the diehards on the Left continue to spout off about recalling Scott Walker, most Wisconsinites are fatigued and a bit overwhelmed by the whole recall experience. Democrats failed in their goal to take the majority in the Senate. Republicans failed to unseat Democratic senators that fled the state.
In the wake of last week’s recall election, Republican Rep. Robin Vos proposed recall reform legislation. Vos’ bill would force recall committees to provide “a statement of reason related to the official responsibilities of the person being recalled.” Currently, Wisconsin is only 1 of 19 states that allow legislative recalls, and the current process does not require a reason for state officials. According to Vos, “it (the recalls) undermines our democracy and wastes precious taxpayer dollars that are needed elsewhere.”
As mentioned, the current law on recalls for state officials does not require a reason. Recall committees must only gather enough signatures (one quarter of the total votes in the governor’s race in that district) within the 60-day time frame and a recall election is triggered.
In two cases, one Republican and one Democrat, the candidate did not even gain as many votes as signatures on the recall petition.
Senate District 2 (23,959 signatures)
Nancy Nusbaum (D) 18,039 votes (-5,590)
Senate District 30 (15,540 signatures)
David Vanderleest (R) 11,054 votes (-4,486)
Three of the recall challengers, two Democrats and one Republican, gained less than 4,000 votes more than their signature total.
Senate District 10 (23,685 signatures)
Shelly Moore (D) 27,250 votes (+3,565)
Senate District 14 (22,207 signatures)
Fred Clark (D) 24,365 votes (+2,158)
Senate District 22 (17,138 signatures)
Jonathan Steitz (R) 19,662 votes (+2,254)
A common theme in all five of these recall elections where the challenger had less votes than signatures, or barely outpaced the signatures, the challenger lost by a significant margin. And in the two elections where incumbents did lose, a myriad of reasons beyond the collective bargaining vote led to the demise of Sens. Hopper and Kapanke.
And while Democrats are already criticizing Vos’ bill for “limiting democracy” and “diminishing political accountability,” Vos’ proposal recognizes that the threshold for recall elections in Wisconsin is far too low. The Republican senators did not break any law, but only took a tough vote that made them the target for millions of dollars in special interest money. The case can be better made that the Democrats were not performing their duty as legislators, but even in those cases their constituents re-elected them with overwhelming margins.
All nine senators that faced recall elections will be up for re-election in just 15 months. With recall reform, legislators might be able to work more for their constituents and less on the campaign trail.
By Collin Roth
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119 Comments
I don't really mind that they could be recalled without a reason pertaining to responsibility, that they lost the faith of their constituents is reason enough. I could see simply having to put the reason for recall on the circulating petition for recall, but there should be no set requirements on what that reason can be.
Yeah seriously man. The GOP faces a recall and all of a sudden a GOP senator wants to put forth legislation to make sure it's harder the next time?
That is as transparent a political maneuver we've ever seen.
'bout time. A recall can be a valuable tool for the voters, but there has to be clear guidelines in the law. There has to be a transgression by the representative and they have to be clearly stated. The way they vote should Never be a reason!
Reason???
Coservatives get recalled because lib/prog/union cabal is stupid.
The lib/prog/union/democrat cabal gets recalled because they ARE stupid.
next
kind of like how the Dem senate kept whittling down the filibuster number…..
WI is way out of hand-
yes there needs to be reform.
However, it should not go into place until AFTER the next election.
That way everyone who votes for it has to face the public before they can shield themselves with the new law.
They took a "tough" vote on a significant matter to thousands of Wisconsin citizens and Walker never campaigned on the issue. The reason the Republican party wants to change the laws is they are scared. Spare me the fact the Senate did not switch. The four Republicans who were not recalled were from districts in which the Republicans held a significant voter registration advantage. Additionally, the Democrat who prevailed by 55% was from a district which went heavily for Walker in 2010. The Democrats are biding their time because they know Walker and his radical agenda have been neutered. Several of the Republican senators who barely won their seats in very blue districts in 2010 can be recalled at the beginning of 2011. Believe me, these Senators know their jobs are on the line. Additionally, the will probably time Walker's recall to coincide with the November, 2012 elections. Oh, and by the way, did you see the latest employment numbers from Wisconsin. They lost their June "gain" in jobs. <a href="http://www.jsonline.com” target=”_blank”>www.jsonline.com. So much for the Walker agenda.
I hear you, man. And then the the GOP went on to hold the Wisconsin Senate.
Oh, wait. That's not part of your narrative, is it? Nevermind . . .
Seems like sensible solution. Which means that the democrats will oppose it all the way.
you have claimed in the past to be a business owner.
How does that jive with carrying the water for every progressive policy and politician you can find?
Just get tougher, smarter and by all means,…….
de-McCain the Republican Party and we won't have to change any rules.
Forget the recalls….
Make no mistake folks, all of Wisconsin's wasted motion, chaos, and turmoil is being generated directly from and by Barack Obama's "Organize for America" in Chicago, with strings directly tethered to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington DC. IMHO, Among other Obama crimes committed, this's an impeachable offense.
Gee, three years of playing golf, vacations and white house parties have really been hard on Obama. /S
Definition of hypocrisy:
Dems win: "I Won", and "Elections Have Consequences"
GOP win: "RECALL!!! GOPNAZI!!!!"
I have a better idea.
If you are the challenging candidate in a recall election, and you fail to reach the same number of votes as signatures on your challenge, then you are responsible for all costs related to that recall election.
There. Simple.
No, I won't spare you the fact that the Senate did not switch. You had your chances and you failed. Deal with it, troll.
Yeah, seriously man. The union fleabaggers don't like a bill so they run and hide in IL and all of a sudden the socialists and communists want a recall. Maybe 5% or why not 1% of voters should be able to demand a recall and overide what a majority of participating voters decided.
The way I see it there was a net gain of two seats for the Democrats.
How that is somehow a Democrat failure and Republican success is beyond me. The people of Wisconsin got what they wanted, which is more Democrats to represent them.
Treat it like a frivolous lawsuit? Loser pays? I like it. Also add that NO taxpayer dollars be spent in any recall in any district in any way!
So if the Tea Party (25% or so) want to recall Obama, we should be able to, right? That ought to help keep things moving along, ehh. "Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won", Obama 2009
You know you've been wrong every time so let me make a suggestion, you need to predict that the recall attempt on Walker will fail or he will win his recall election. Well that is if you want to be right for once. Its funny leading up to the recalls you were here cheering 6-3 like it was some victory, but in the end the dems failed. Just like you and your attempts to predict the outcome of these elections. You go on and on like you know what your talking about, but time and time again reality proves you wrong. Here is a sad fact that you will find hard to swallow, the majority of people here in Wisconsin actually support Walker, the Republicans and their agenda. Its not a huge majority but 50% plus 1% is still considered the majority. Facts and reality are hard things to accept but the sooner you do the better off you will be.
have a nice day
Who cares, anymore. Shove it down their throats.
LOL.
No, really…if you have been following Obama at ALL; you have seen far more transparent political maneuvers!
So, you are a socialist from Canada and your opinion is relevant how?
The only people that should have been recalled are the losers that left the state so no vote could be held. Guess they got their ***** skinned in the end, anyway. 5 year olds are more mature than Wisconsin democrats.
Oh Look!! The eastern Canadian welfare dirtbag put down his tin cup long enough to add his two cents (literally) worth.
The left put more money into a few senate races in a few weeks than Walker spent on his gubernatorial campaign in 18 months and they still lost.
Kind of like what happened to your precious Bloc Quebecois….. lol
"take a canuck
add some grit
stir it up and
you get………
I am a business owner. I am also a proud product of the public education system in the State of Nebraska and I like my teachers well paid. As any person knows there is a direct link between the quality and the cost.
Unfortunately for you, there is not a recall provision in the Constitution.
Let me give you an analogy. You are playing a baseball game and the other team has just used up their last pitcher. Although, you are behind by one run, there are many more innings left to play. Once again, the Republicans are attempting to change the law. I wonder why?
I see. Then if it was such a GREAT victory for the Republicans, why do they want to change the law?
I would say that it is unfortunate that Wisconsin does. It circumvents a valid election and has no purpose, unless an elected official does something criminal.
Yeah, seriously man. The Democratic legislators go to Illinois to hide out for three weeks so they won't face what they know is a losing vote. That is as transparent a political maneuver as we've ever seen.
Well, let's see. Walker did not campaign on changing the collective bargaining agreement. As a result, it is questionable whether he would have been elected.
Tell that to the 55 and 58% of the electorate in their respective districts who voted to retain them. In fact, one district went heavily for Walker in the 2010 election. I would want to be changing the law, too.
Elected, being the keyword and who manufactured your crystal ball. Does it have the "union label" by chance.
Recall elections subvert the proper functioning of a representative democracy. The reason for gaps between elections is to allow passions to cool so that the business of governance may take place. When recall elections are added to the mix, it is impossible for normal function of government to take place because "perpetual campaign" becomes the norm. Thus in practice, it is a subversion of proper democratic government.
I'd rather they'd just RAM it through…
As soon as limits are placed on them elected representatives will care less what the people want.
I think we should make recalls easier. Bleed the funds out of the unions like happened here and they'll think twice about calling for them in the future.
Any person knows no such thing.
Some of the worst performing schools spend the most.
How is this any different than a politician who campaigns on a promise to do something and lies?
Because liberals once again abused the law. I wonder why?
HMMM. Let's see. I high school AP Biology teacher can make how much in private industry? Or how about a BC Calculus teacher? You really need to get a life. The school district I was from and the one I reside in now have never turned down a bond issue.
If NO, Zero, Zip. Nada tax-payer money is used for the recalls that might be a plan.
So does passing laws which significantly affect the livelihood of a large segment of our society and not campaigning on the issue. The Republican party in Wisconsin are getting their just desserts. The unions conceded every financial request, but Walker wanted to bust their union. It is one thing to bust their union when they are stifling the Wisconsin economy. It is another when they have conceded every financial demand.
No. I am simply pointing out the obvious. It is one thing to have campaigned on the issue. It is another to keep silent. If he was so confident that he would get elected, he should have made this issue his number one campaign goal.
Obviously, you have no idea what a straw man argument is.
I have a baseball. In the past I have been able to hit it 300 feet. Today I decided I was going to hit it 320 feet. I swung at the ball and sent it soaring to a distance of 280 feet. VICTORY IS MINE!!!!!!!
Seriously, if this is what you call a victory for the Democrats, I wish them many similar victories in the future.
So it's not about the money at all, it's just about hurt feelings?
Good luck. The recall provision is in their constitution. It can only be amended by convention or by having it pass both houses and approved by the voters in an election. If they tried it, I am certain the Democrats could easily recall several more state senators before this process would be completed. Please remember, they can file the recall petitions in January, 2012.
I see.
Because the unions have out-and-out said their goal is to make Wisconsin ungovernable, and using recalls is part of that strategy. Perhaps the Republicans are representing the majority of the people in Wisconsin who want their elected officials to do their jobs instead of constantly campaigning.
I am confused by you're remarks Bo. Sometimes you reply as a fiscal conservative who believes in common sense. Other times you follow the communist fist like a teenage boy following a pretty girl? You must be a union boss or have investment in unions in some way shape or form. All I can say to you is there is no way government should have ever been able to form unions. JFK was a good President but this was his biggest mistake!! The only thing government unions protect government workers from is doing a good job at a reasonable price for their state. I have worked for a non union city and i know from personnel experience how hard it is to fire a worthless person in this environment so why do we "the taxpayer" need this additional expense and level of bureaucracy? I'm not trying to give you crap I just don't understand you're view point?
It depends upon your point of view. I would propose their "abuse" was a direct result of Walker not campaigning on this issue in the November, 2010 election. Since he did not campaign on this issue, a strong argument could be made he mislead the voters.
You forgot to add, there are more innings to be played. Once again, if they are not scared, why do they want to change the law? Prior to this year, there have only been four state wide recall elections in Wisconsin. http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/articl... So much for a "history of abuse".
No. It is about a governor who was elected and then rammed through a law which affected thousands of persons and he did not campaign on this issue. Furthermore, it was not needed because the unions conceded every financial demand he made.
See below.
And I notice that as an educated educator you side stepped my comment.
Money doesn't make a good school system, and some of the worst school systems spend the most.
It was about a governor elected to pass that law and campaigned on it.
You probably also feel entitled to a 'participation award' since you wrote so many comments here, even if they really didn't make sense.
HMMM. Citations please. If you think all of the teachers, nurses, firefighters, etc. share this belief, you are sadly mistaken. As far as "doing their jobs", I believe the Republicans went after the Democrats because they left the state and were not doing their job. OOOPPS.
Walker did campaign and got elected on that issue, among several.
Logic always escapes the left…………as with Impeachment, there are specifics required to trigger the process. Recall should relate to actions surrounding the office the politician holds. In the case of the Democrats, abandoment of the work place seems appropriate grounds………..but that is way too logical.
Look, this is a state problem, not a federal. Wisconsin granted them their union rights decades ago. I do own my own business. Several years ago, the unions tried to organize my production workers. They laughed at them. In fact, one of the union organizers applied for a job when he learned how I treat my employees. It is all a matter of attitude and treating a person fairly and with respect.
The GOP in WI got the late night phone call from the plutocrats they represent(mainly the Koch's) and were told to make sure they dont lose one nickel of their assets to higher taxes and to stay the course in helping them destroy what's left of the middle class and their ability to earn a decent wage all so they can have more to themselves otherwise they wont be re-elected. The Republican party are like that secret cabal in the X Files that were helping the aliens so they can have power while screwing over everyone else.
The GOP's mission is quite clear. Wall Street and the banksters destroyed our economy but the GOP and the plutocrats they are protecting have managed through their tea party operatives to convince the public that the reason we are running a deficit is because of school teachers, unions, and grandma's social security and medicare. They are not only lying to the public but using this crisis to beat an old adversary and one that stands in their way of total domination. How tea party goofs by this crap though is beyond me? Pensions were wiped out along with state assets through bad investments during the housing boom. Orange County went bankrupt because of bad speculatory investments pushed on them by banksters. Is it just coincidence that the economy dropped out in 2008 and suddenly all the states are broke? Hmmmmmmmmm……..
The divisions in this country are being caused by the upper 2% and all so they dont have to payer higher taxes and so they can take away their last remaining obstacles to slave labor and the accumulation of all the remaining wealth and assets. Keep pushing privatization idiots! You will wind up with a defacto fascist state since everything left will be concentrated in just a few hands and they will make all the laws.
MANY 'blue' districts went heavily for Walker in 2010. As your party's leader said, "Elections have consequences". You claim that your issue is that Gov. Walker didn't specifically mention collective bargaining when campaigning on a platform of fiscal reform. I suppose that you would maintain the same stance for every other politician that did anything other than what he/she specifically outlined in their campaign speeches? To prove your intellectual honesty, I'll ask someone to provide an example of a Democrat who has done the same and we'll see if you call for their removal. It's a long shot, but I'm going to guess that you don't.
There are many reasons why some school systems spend more than others. To be honest, some of them have very poor teachers. This problem is compounded because we have a generational failure in the cities in which the parents did not get a good education and expect nothing from their children. However, I am a firm believer that society can only be as strong as their poorest citizens and public education is the only way to bring these children to a higher level. One of the mistakes Obama has made in my opinion is not going after this problem as well as the birth rate in teenagers.
Sorry, Roger, but Walker never campaigned on repealing collective bargaining: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/20... As far as my participation goes, I simply do not believe in the falsehoods I read on this site such as your claim Walker campaigned on this issue. Talk about not making any sense.
Oh boo flipping hoo. From what I have been reading and hearing, many school districts were able to balance their budgets, stave off having to lay off teachers and other staff and some have ended up with surpluses which is money they now have to spend on their students all because of the new bill. Sorry but your argument is null and void.
I didn't have the heart to thumb you down on this one.
It was brilliant 'weaselese' for I was wrong and money can't buy the a decent public school education.
And generational failure isn't anything new. It wasn't long ago that the first college graduates were coming from families all over.
Oh yes he did. http://wsau.com/news/articles/2010/nov/02/electio... http://www.scottwalker.org/issues/government-refo...
Your cite states Walker campaigned on reigning in state spending. I have no argument there. However, the issue that set off Wisconsin was not the spending issue because the unions conceded every demand, but the collective bargaining repeal. As Politifact states, he did not campaign on this issue and this was the issue which sparked the recalls.
Once again, the unions conceded the financial issues. The issue you are talking about has nothing to do with finances at this time. It could in the future, though. But Walker was too dumb to realize this and overplayed his hand.
Not on the collective bargaining issue.
"I am a business owner."
And let me guess; your wife or boyfriend is a public employee, probably a teacher, and they bring home the majority of the household income.
"I am also a proud product of the public education system…"
That is obvious.
"…and I like my teachers well paid."
By everyone else.
I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that you are, in fact, Warren Buffett, who also likes his government to be well paid and wants everyone else to do it for him.
"As any person knows there is a direct link between the quality and the cost."
You really ARE a product of the public school system. There is a link, IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
Did NASA get superior toilet lids for the $800 they paid? Or for the special bolts that cost $60 each except when government paid $1600 each?
Is the US education system churning out the best and brightest math and science students for the average $11,000 per student per year that it costs?
You are becoming more and more of a clown every time you open your mouth, or whatever it is called on a troll.
You went way off topic. First warning. Shorten your rant next time, too. No one cares to read all that garbage.
"I high school AP Biology teacher can make how much in private industry? "
That's classic. lol
Then why don't they?
Probably because everyone knows they can't, and that they can't retire after 25 or 30 years with full health coverage and 90% of their salary.
If teachers do it as a vocation, then why did they care so much about "the money" in Wisconsin?
'So does passing laws which significantly affect the livelihood of a large segment of our society and not campaigning on the issue."
ObamaCare.
Let me help you out, ol' Jimmy. Some people really, really enjoy teaching. I am sorry your education obviously never reached the level where you could tell the difference.
My wife or boyfriend is not a public employee. Nice try though. As far as the rest of your rant, teachers have nothing to do with $800 toilet lids, the defense department did. I suppose you are in favor of cutting their budget.
He campaigned on the issue. You must have been asleep. http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,...
Ok at what cost sir? I know you're very smart we've talked enough i get that. Why should the taxpayers pay extra to have unions when we don't need them? The states without unions take very good care of their workers without the added bs!!! Thats costing us billions in every union state.
Since the state employees in Wisconsin conceded every financial request, what added cost did the Wisconsin taxpayers incur?
Speaking for my district – 18 – the Hopper recall was nothing more than a do-over for pissed off local dems. They saw an opening and took it, and they finally got their girl Jessica King into office. King's campaign mailers and ads were never about the Walker law.
From the start she focused on Senator Hopper's wealth (he's one of those evil high achievers who made something of themselves), tax breaks to 'evil corporations' (without them this district would be impoverished with only government and low wage service jobs), and Hopper's rather messy divorce due to an affair (that never happens in America!). In fact, in the two weeks leading up to election day, each and every King mailer (we received at least two per day) focused on Hopper's affair.
In the end, the voter who could still remember why Hopper was getting recalled was rare. And that, of course, was by design. As I said, it was a DO OVER. Dems don't like the outcome of the first election? Hell, have another. You can use the recall provision to achieve it. That's Wisconsin, folks.
Funny, prior to this round of recalls, Wisconsin had had only four state wide recall elections in 80 years. So I would say this was more than a "do-over for pissed off local dems".
Can't get more concise than that. Bravo.
The Walker recall cannot be scheduled to coincide with the November general election, genius. That's not how it works. Walker is eligible to be recalled in January of 2012. The screeching leftist hordes will begin collection of their signatures at that time. Then the election board has to approve it. Then the special election is scheduled, probably for the early summer.
Walker was county executive of Milwaukee County long before he was Governor. He had a verifiable record of taking on public employee unions and budget cutting. He said he was going to run the state the same way. He campaigned on it. I live here, I ought to know.
Dream on. As the following portion of the Politifact article states, Walker admitted he "dropped the bomb":
But Walker, who offered many specific proposals during the campaign, did not go public with even the bare-bones of his multi-faceted plans to sharply curb collective bargaining rights. He could not point to any statements where he did. We could find none either.
While Walker often talked about employees paying more for pensions and health care, in his budget-repair bill he connected it to collective bargaining changes that were far different from his campaign rhetoric in terms of how far his plan goes and the way it would be accomplished.
We rate his statement False.
(Editor’s note: After this item was posted, a conversation surfaced between Walker and a person impersonating Walker campaign contributor and industrialist David Koch. In an audiotape released Feb. 23, 2011, Walker compares his union plan to a history-making act and portrayed his union plan as a "bomb."
Walker aides acknowledge the tape is real, but say Walker simply was saying privately what he has said publicly about his budget-repair bill.
Of a meeting with his cabinet, Walker in the tape says: We talked about what we were going to do, how we were going to do it. We had already built plans up. This was kind of the last hurrah before we dropped the bomb.")
That's precisely what the Hopper recall was, friend. They were screaming it at the debates. Do Over! Do Over! You seriously have no clue about the level of hatred up here.
Well, Boy Wonder, let me help you out. You are correct, Walker is eligible for recall beginning in January. However, when this process starts is completely left up to the persons seeking his recall. They have a certain time limit to collect the required amount. That is it. The statute does not require the recall process begin at the earliest possible time. Based upon the latest elections, they have an idea how long it will take to verify the signatures. They also were tipped off by the Republicans that primary elections may be necessary to come up with the appropriate candidate. As a result, they probably will allow time for a Democratic primary and run a strong candidate and a weak candidate. Whether or not they chose to go after Walker in January, remains to be seen. However, the Republicans are obviously scared. Otherwise, they would not attempt to change the law.
Yes, maybe next time a candidate will make his views known on all the important issues and not run a stealth campaign. It is too bad Walker was too stupid to declare victory when the unions conceded every financial demand. He cost two state senators their job and more may be just around the corner.
To put it simply the added cost of the unions which we don't need. The same unions that pump tax dollars into elections. Public tax dollars going to work against the private sector the very people that put forth the money. Like I said before we had a tiff awhile back I'm not trying to beat you up I just don't get you're point of view on this. If government employees want to give money to an elected official let them do it with their own paycheck not union dues… have a good night no disrespect intended.
@9261964, in listening to the campaigns of other Democrats, seemed funny to me that none of them mentioned the Collective Bargaining, which was the reason for the recalls. If you are going to recall someone because of a vote, then you would think that is what you would campaign about. I agree this was nothing but a do over because the Democrats are still ticked off that they lost last November and lost their majority and used the Collective Bargaining as their open door.
@ Huskers, if the fleabaggers would have stayed and did their jobs and voted, then none of these recalls would have ever happened. And no they were not doing their job and if I or anyone else would have done that on our jobs guess what we would be fired, plain and simple.
http://www.progressive.org/rothschild0611.html
I personally believe that all of the teachers, nurses, firefighters, etc need to take control of their unions back from the gangsters currently in charge. Those gangsters are in bed with the Democrats, and as far as the union bosses and the Democrats are concerned, union members can be damned so long as the bosses get their money and power first.
As for your second point, what the hell does that mean? Yes, the Democrats weren't doing thier jobs and two of them faced recall because of it. I think that's a far better reason for a recall election than the fact that a senator voted for a bill the union opposed. That is what their job is, vote for what they think is best, and face the results of their vote at the next election. Not a recall election, the next election. FYI, I thought the recall attempts on the Democrats were ill-advised and a waste of time and money, and it would appear that I was correct.
Well, the Republicans claimed they were not doing their job. Unfortunately for them 55 and 58 percent of the voters disagreed.
They should enjoy it, nothing wrong with that. But that's not what his comment was about.
It was about teachers that teach because the private sector isn't their 'cup of tea' for what ever reason.
That did save them money, didn't it?
On saving money, which his position on collective bargaining did.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/20...
You may want to call walker a liar on this, but conservatives understand when it comes to a state with unions collective bargaining must be part of the mix. And Walker and his voters understood that.
So, you can't say he's wrong but you want to rip on him because you're just tired of people tearing you apart this entire thread?
Hey moron, Wisconsin lost only half as many jobs (%) as Illinois or Minnesota. Thank you Gov. Walker. Thank you Randy Hopper and Dan Kapanke. Your sacrifice will not be forgotten. Hopefully next year we can recall the Queen and her Shill.
If they really, really enjoy teaching, they wouldn't be worrying about money.
16 dems in the Senate won't get you squat. 17 Republicans will get us economic freedom.
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