Local Government Run Amok, Example #17,568: Dallas Sign Ban
by Matt MillerShowing complete disregard for the free speech rights of small business owners, the City of Dallas bans businesses from putting commercial signs in the upper two-thirds of any window or glass door, and on more than 15 percent of any window or glass door. Only ineffective signs are allowed by the government: tiny signs placed at people’s feet. The law also bans signs that cover more than 25 percent of a building’s façade. Failure to take down the signs means you are at risk to be hit with a fine up to $2,000.
The law only targets commercial messages. Businesses are free to put anything except a commercial message in their windows. For example, a business could paint a giant Dallas Cowboys helmet on its window—but not advertise that it offers Cowboys merchandise for sale inside. Businesses can paint their windows black or put coolers or other items in front of them. In fact, businesses in Dallas are not even required to have windows at all. What they cannot do is put messages in their windows that tell customers about the products and services offered inside.
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93 Comments
Why don't they just revoke all the business permits. It will accomplish the ends much faster.
Seriously? What, it's not aesthetically pleasing enough? You'd think businesses have a hard enough time.
It starts at the beginning of the process. You buy some land to Develop and assume the risk and Debt. It takes two years just to figure out how much the Black Mail from the Environmentalists will cost you. After you pay off the Environmental Mobsters you find it will take another year to pay off the Unions for Construction workers you do not want or need. As you think you are about to break ground. You find the Planning Department needs their hands greased also and you realize the Planning Department and the City powers that be are not only designing your product. They are also telling you what use the Development shall consist of. Soon you have spent five, six, seven or more years paying Debt service on a piece of Dirt trying to break ground dealing with Mobsters who make Al Capone look reasonable. Our Government has set up little Gestapo’s at every turn. That Freedom and Liberty idea the Founders had must have been nice while it lasted.
Oh please, welcome to my world.
Here in lefty Quebec we have had crazy laws like that for years. The French letters have to be twice as big as the English letters, IF you are allowed to show any English at all. We even have Language Police who run around with tape-measures checking signs out.
Cowards like Subway don't even put their toe in the sign debate and just put everything in French because some idiot lawyer says it's safer that way.
Gee…What's the difference between this and the Black Market?
Makes me wonder how many people on the commission for the city of Dallas have actually worked in the private sector, or at the most, owned a business themselves.
I also wonder if they prohibit a loud speaker outside the front door screaming out the deals they have for the day? If I was a business owner in Dallas, I would find a creative, obnoxious, and annoying way around all of this…! :p
More inmates running the asylum. Crooks with calling cards. Choose a side. It's about to get real nasty.
……..and then, when you finally get it built, you have to waste all the prime parking in front with handicapped parking slots, to comply with the ADA requirements.
BIG government = NO FREEDOM!! Got it yet??? Well, this is just the beginning!!!!
I wish we could fight the war in Afghanistan as effectively as our government is waging the war on small business.
Gee…wonder who's behind such a law…
liberals – conservatives – liberals – conservatives …
LIBERALS
Maybe they could put on their storefronts, the names of the people that came up with this idea, along with their home phone numbers, characters of their faces and their official government job position…
Texas is a great place to live if you are not in a big city. But just like the failed cities in the blue states, Dallas seems hell-bent on micro-managing everything they can get their mitts on. Born there but fled at a young age because of "ordinances" like that. Soon Dallas will be Detroit if it is not stopped NOW!
CL…not "all" the prime spots are taken…only a percentage of the total spaces available are taken….here's an example from MA:
A: State law (M.G.L. Ch. 40, Sect. 21, Cl. 23) requires the following number of spaces, based upon the total spaces in a given lot available to the public:
• Between 16 and 25 spaces: one handicapped space
• Between 26 and 40 spaces: five percent of such spaces but not less than two
• Between 41 and 100 spaces: four percent of such spaces but not less than three
• Between 101 and 200 spaces: three percent of such spaces but not less than four
• Between 201 and 500 spaces: two percent of such spaces but not less than six
• Between 501 and 1,000 spaces: one and one-half percent of such spaces but not less than 10
• Between 1,001 and 2,000 spaces: one percent of such spaces but not less than 15
• Between 2,001 and 5,000 spaces: three-fourths of one percent of such spaces but not less than 20
• More than 5,000 spaces: one-half of one percent of such spaces but not less than 30
Businesses will find a way, there's still the WALL space, point of entry and sidewalk /parking lot that can be used. Business owners who are ticked off by this could try and make the new signage as hideous as possible – painting the parking lot entryways/exits with ads, chalk ads on the sidewalks and entry points and signs that are really inside, but can be viewed through the window….. and graffiti will now be the new ad…. whoohoo!
Good point…!
I think small businesses not in direct competition should team up and host each other's signs. Mike says "Shop at Joe's," and Joe says "Shop at Mike's."
So only the Gov employees are left ???
Socialism is a cargo cult.
They like the benefits and free stuff business supplies to government to hand out, but they don't have a clue how it actually happens.
.
if you think that is ridiculous, when I was doing international marketing I could NOT transport "English only" advertising material through the province of Quebec in trucks headed for the east coast.
Yes- bu they have to be the spaces closest to the entrance- i.e. the prime spaces.
So when the store owners close down and move just outside the city limits, maybe then they will see the stupidity!! ————–Then again NOT !!!
“Property is theft !” ~~ Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (1809-1865) : French anarchist
A little off topic, but this is not good. Obama has appointed four members to the bipartisan deficit commission he established last week, an administration official said. The appointees are: Andy Stern, the president of SEIU; David Cote, the Honeywell International CEO; former Federal Reserve Vice Chairman Alice Rivlin; and Ann Fudge, a former Young & Rubicam Brands CEO. — ( as reported in poltico 44)
ANDY FREAKING CROOK STERN to a deficit commission!!
Well at last the "One" has produced the most open and honest government we have ever had, just ask the people … LMAO
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/26/c...
At this rate Obama will responsible for the total reformation of the government back to constitutional standards, which is probably not what he had in mind but maybe he is a "Conservative Mole" that’s screwing up on purpose?
You lefties should get rid of him while the getting's still good.
Hey Cowboy I answered your reply to me yesterday on yhe going to Belize thing, nothing seriuos though.
And that is why Quebec is in Canada.
Thats funny.
I never thought of it like that, but that number might be closer to the truth than we'd like to know.
Yes.
I just now saw it.
Belize is pretty, but it is rough.
Are you serious? Where is the information? That is amazing! ANDY STERN????????
so where should the handicapped spaces be or should we just eliminate them altogether?
Kinda like when Macy's sends customers to Gimbel's in "Miracle on 34ths Street"…. ; )
I thought Texas was a conservative state, where did the buffoons come from that elected the wing nuts who created the sign ban?
What is the govt.s logic for this?????? That its ugly and yet most all govts do something that makes the community less pretty in a variety of ways
Please you guys, tell me you're not railing against handicapped parking spots? Seriously – if you're all just kidding around, I missed it ~
Gotta make sure that Andy can cover the Unions from harm …
And we all know WHO was behind that and why – racism at it's best.
More proof that urabnization leads to liberalism. Someone should do a sociology study on that one. How long does it take for people to become liberal after they move to the city? Is it generations of removal from hard work and self-reliance, or is it a certain attitude of dependency in the people who seek to live in the cities?
absolutely not railing against them…I have absolutely no problem with them…although I do have problems with those who aren't handicapped using them or those who use a placard when it is for someone else! Handicapped spots are close to the business for a reason and yea that probably is prime parking in many cases, in other's not so much depending on where they handicapped ramps are located. I've also seen a bunch of spaces "reserved" for the employee of the month or ?? These are always located near the front of the businesses….
I wouldn't lay the entire blame solely at the feet of racism.
UNIONs played a huge role in the demise of Detroit.
History repeats itself. UNIONs destroyed the domestic steel industry in the 70's, and decimated Pittsburgh. it has taken Pittsburgh 40 years to crawl back from the brink of the abyss. It will take Detroit at least that long, but it will never be the same.
Do you know that things are so bad in Detroit, in Michigan itself, that the FED and the Comptroller of the Currency have special banking rules in place, in effect that apply solely to Michigan? Michigan banks have to have a different loan to value ratio on their money on deposit, and on money loaned out.
This is not widely known or circulated. Detroit, and Michigan are DOA and SOL………
The difference between the mafia and the government, it seems to me, is that the mafia is in it to make money. The government is in it to PREVENT the making of money.
They were shipped in from my state of California.
All valid points Cowboy, however I read an enlightening expose on the Mayor and his resolute position of now allowing 'the whites' to participate as he slowly decimated the city. Not taking anything away from your observations regarding the Unions – for sure!
Wikipedia article < href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon">here.
Link.
Interestingly enough, I had occassion to be in Detroit in early January (about the time of the auto show). I always like listening to local opinions and perspectives. It is a fact that everyone in power is African-American. It is a fact that there are two seperate "camps". it has been reduced to a "them" and "us" mindset.
It didn't matter where I was, whether it was sitting around someones kitchen table, at a resturant, or in a store, the topic always got around to "what "they" have done to destroy our city". The common theme was the "hand out" mentality.
In that regard, you are right.
As a volunteer with our local bandit sign initiative (in Houston), I had heard something of the strict Dallas and Fort Worth ordinances which are not that new. My understanding is they already had an ordinance that stated windows must be 80% clear of any signage so that patrons and patrolling law enforcement could have an unobstructed view through the windows. But..something is missing here. If the ordinance states the window must be 80% clear and unobstructed, then it would seem business owners could NOT completely cover their windows with non-commercial signs, or signs or art of any type(the Dallas Cowboy football helmet example).
Also, I understand another issue may be unfair application of the ordinance with more stringent enforcement of the rules in low income-high crime areas where robbery/burglary of a business is more of a problem.
My feeling is the intent of the law is good but city officials have gone too far . Sign blight IS a problem that contributes to urban decay. Excessive signs is NOT an effective marketing tool and is a proven impediment to safety. But I think Dallas goes too far in their decision to control the location of signs. Establish minimum visibility for safety reasons and leave the 'decorating' decisions to the store owners.
Um, sorry, but they've had stupid laws like this in Norman, OK (where all the communists from East Berlin fled, I'm convinced) for years! We're way ahead of Texas, even in this.
In the bigger towns and cities, absolutely. in small towns, 'conservatives' are just as bad. I lived in a small town where a near civil war broke out over installation of a traffic light!
There are some places where laws like this are understandable. Some towns have covenants and restrictions forcing anyone who buys or leases in the town proper to conform to a certain aesthetic theme. Such and example would be a small quaint bavarian christmas villiage. Tourism is important and the whole town is done in a theme to maintain that image. Likewise they may not want neon signs plastered all over business fronts.
However, what is being done in Dallas does not fall into this category. The covenents are not already in place. New laws are being passed that will act as a burden upon already owned/leased properties.
Also, given the chief complainant in this case is the owner of a sign making business, I have to wonder if her issue is more about her bottom line than our right to free speech.
In our state, we have bandit sign laws that prohibit the papering of the sides of the road (state and county right of way) with illegal signs. We have legions of volunteers who assist highway crews inremove these signs through out the state. It is a full time and very dangerous job. I find it sickening to see business owners, ignorant of the law, invest thousands of dollars on these signs. I've spoken to so many small business owners who have spent their last $100 on those stupid signs only to see them confiscated by bandit sign rangers or highway crews. NEVER are they informed by the sign makers the item they are purchasing is illegal. Never are they informed these signs are the least effective of all marketing tools.
So before a sign maker gets everyone worked up, I'd consider their motives.
That's Dallas. A city where the city will "boot" or cars parked in parking lots claiming drivers didn't pay for the parking, they put short time meters in front of restaurants and bars or ban parking altogether. Where people who move next to the airport complain about the jet noise and people who move next to bars complain about the foot traffic, trash, and people Pi**ing in their yard. The biggest concerns of the Dallas City Council is which street to name after Cesar Chavez and which jail they want to reside in after their convictions. Go to Fort Worth, much friendlier and safer.
Maximilien François Marie Isidore de Robespierre was no anarchist.
A quote: "To punish the oppressors of humanity is clemency; to forgive them is barbarity."
I not only get vocal, I take a quick photo or two on the iphone and email it to the appropriate police department. Haven't ever had a response but then I wouldn't expect one. I even confronted one guy and a cop just happened by. He got a ticket ($150) for his little personal convenience trip. He was still trying to justify it to the cop saying there were a number of spaces open so he didn't see a problem. Guess that made for an expensive trip to the store…lol
Please, just don't ever under-estimate the progressive movement to shut down free enterprise in America!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudh...
I hate to break it to you, but those people are not "Conservatives". They are Progressive Republicans…
This is all good stuff. The more hairbrained things he does like this, the sooner the rest of the country will wake up…
I live in McKinney now but was born in Dallas and have lived here all my life. Texas in general is way conservative both fiscally and socially. And while I absolutely think it is the best place in the USA to live especially now in these economic times, we have our fair share of moonbats. Many are on the Dallas City Council. The communists and leftists that have been elected to the council and the mayor over the years is stunning. Their idiocy is matched only by the extraterrestrial Dallas school board. There are some genuinely good people on the council and Dallas, like Seattle, is run on the City Manager system which I think is a superior arrangement of governmental power. But this law is typical of Dallas do-gooder posturing. It may also interest those on this site to know that while Texas is the reddest of states, Dallas County actually went blue for Obama in the election. Harris County in Houston very nearly did the same. And it's well known that Austin, for all it's country down homeyness is a hot bed of hippie style liberalism. You know, UT and all. The law will no doubt be overturned in the next two sessions but it will cost taxpayers again nonetheless. Sheesh.
Those of us that live in the DFW(Dallas-Fort Worth) area and work for a living stay in the burbs and laugh at the welfare libs in Dallas.
Agreed. I personally would like to see all this concern applied to billboards rather than signage on windows that the business owns or rightfully leases. I would hate to think that I could not advertise my own products/services on my own window despite the fact that it may not be THE most effective form of advertisement. Maybe it's the only advertisement that's available to the owner at the time.
Does your organization address billboard signage as well as storefront?
Is there an equivalent organization here in Dallas?
One hopes that you've already followed your own advice and relieved us poor, misguided Dallasites of your measured presence.
Please. Let's not get out of hand here. This is a mistake and plenty are made in Dallas but it is still a great place to live and offers far more advantages than detriments. And I love Ft Worth too. A great place but all cities the size of Ft Worth are safer than cities the size of Dallas. Compare apples to apples please. And while we're at it – would Ft Worth be what it is today if it weren't for it's darker, impersonal and wealthy sister city to the East?
Dallas county has been screwy for a long time. I live north of Dallas and I avoid Dallas county like the plague. Their city government is full of liberal and openly racist people who are elected by urban dwellers. The worst offender is John Wiley Price:
http://cbs11tv.com/politics/john.wiley.price.2.15...
Texas is a fine place to live, just don't choose to be near a large city.
Small town politics are often very strange. …
LVB is right on. Dallas county and Travis county ( Austin ) are as deep blue as anything in Michigan or Illinois. Houston is only slightly more conservative. These are the blue islands in Texas, where the left live together in these clumps and thrive. They have " Texas Democrat" bumper stickers so everyone knows they're a outlier.
If watching Dallas government work ( including school board ) is like the wreck you just can't stop looking at. I want to thank them though, because without them, we in Arlington wouldn't have got Jerry Jones to move the Cowboys here. ( I live 2 miles from teh stadium and it's awesome ). The Stadium has already provided a huge boon to this part of town and surrounding development has barely begun. In 5 years this part of town will be booming. Mr. Jones wanted to build in Dallas. The city council and leftards in Dallas couldn't help but demand this and that and whatnot from Jones for the opportunity to build there…. the exact opposite of what Arlington did. We saw a plum and we picked it…. and a lot of people hate the idea, but if you look at the numbers…. we made out like bandits. Thank you Dallas!
Fantastic Idea! I like it. If I had a storefront, you can bet I'd be doing this.
I live in Arlington and I think there was just news about Fort Worth having a similar ordinance passed effecting businesses on west 7th street… ( upwardly mobile and vibrant booming area just west of downtown FTW )… these well-meaning nannies are everywhere.. just like the homeowner associations that are crazy and get in the news every once and awhile… beyond parody. Very sad.
Houston is cracking down on signs as well. I heard on local talk radio a little while back they are getting silly about some of the rules they want to impose. Have not heard if they passed or what. I think they were trying to restrict free standing signs a lot more.
thanks for the comment Outraged Dad. That is pretty crazy that they are such sticklers about English and French up there..
I wish we could take the way you guys do it and the way we do it (nothing at all) and have something in the middle.
English as a national language. Voting ONLY in English. Citizen status should require basic English…
It really irritates me when I go into Home Depot and the lower half of the signs in the store are all in Spanish. We even have a Walmart and a Sams Club that are Hispanic themed. You pull in the parking lot and you are in Mexico city.. First time I drove by the Sam's with it's PURPLE building I thought I was in the Twilight Zone.. Check your English at the door here folk's, it's not much appreciated plus you are insulting our guests!
Sigh.
Somebody needs to put a sign in the window at Dallas City Hall: "Free Beer Tomorrow"………..
In the black market, the business owner actually makes money.
You couldn't be more correct.
I heard an interesting tidbit on the news this morning. In its heydey, during the 1950's, Detroit was a thriving, booming city. The population peaked at 1.85 million. Today, it is a crumbling ghetto, with 900k people. Government at it's finest.
My you people in Dallas are stupid. How do you elect your leaders or is it a common thing? I thought people in Texas were larger that life and now it seems you are not to bright. Please do not have children and spare the rest of the country…
You could always move to the US. Of course here the signs are in Spanish. It won't be long until it's Arabic.
The name of the French anarchist was Rhodes Pierre I believe, but if I am wrong, accept my stupidity.
Gotcha tiredofit – I've been vocal when I've witnessed a seemingly healthy person slide into a handicap spot – however, I will share that after a family member suffered a massive heart attack, to look at them you wouldn't 'see' a handicap, yet they certainly were granted the use of a handicap sticker for a short time – that was an eye opener for me. Having said that, I really don't mind walking a bit further – and am thankful I don't need the handicap card -
I see that New York City knows that they made a mistake economically and wants the mob back in the city. I'll say no more than that! Except, that Rhode Island is just too far away from the city!
I spent two weeks in Russia in 1990. At that time, before the fall of communism, it was a gray and drab country. There was no colorful advertising. All the signs were generic. A sign for a fish store in Vladimir was the exact same sign for a fish store in Suzdal or Kostroma. Same for the bread stores and the meat stores. It wasn't until I got to Frankfurt on the way home, as I was bombarded with colors and messages and products, that I realized something quite profound, to me, at least: Advertising means freedom.
My state outlaws Bill Boards, and I'm glad. You can have free speech without ugly, gaudy clutter.
Aaaah the West End, Deep Ellum, Caravan of Dreams,, Greenville Ave, and last but not least The Fare …
Man oh man, I sure do miss the big D…
Wait a minute.
Lets say you have 5,000 spaces at one half of one percent that would be 25 prime spaces minimum. The question is not " railing against handicapped spaces" The question is statistical.
How many handicapped persons will visit the store within the average visit time.
No one is saying no spaces for the handicapped only is 25 spaces reasonable.
You sir are falling into the group think of sensitivity over rules of reason. This is a specialty of progressive group think and you by you comment show signs of infection.
Most put in 25 plus just to keep the inspector happy. But how many times have I drove around a Home Depo to see 15 to 20 empty prime spots. I'd bet every single time.
All that does is make most reasonable people skeptical about the whole nanny law in the first place.
Heres another one for you.
Get a permit from the city to access and replace waste pipe from residence to street access.
Permit allows 6 foot depth remove terracotta replace with 4.5 PPVC. City drawing confirms depth. A 10 foot by 5 foot orifice with a 6 foot depth.
8 inspectors later job shut down because:
terracotta connection 10 feet down not the 6 we were shown on drawing… need wall support
No permit for breaking through sidewalk to access terracotta. That was a different department and the permitting offices notified street and sidewalk management after issuing the plumbing permit but not us.
Result $200 fine for sidewalk.
9 labor hours while we get wall support loaded.
Moral of the story:
Local Government corrupt next job quoted $700 on top of regular quotes.
$700 given back if all goes well.
My thinking would be to get your sign printed on clear plastic and hang it 6 inches back from the window, put a price tag on it, and call it art.
I've never heard of a city in California named Dallas… Oh, wait… This is Texas? Fooled me. Sounds like something the morons in California would come up with.
What is happening to the once proud Republic of Texas? Freedom loving Americans look on and weep. Why are some being voted into unregulated power by some of the most independent citizens in America? Texas has always been a beacon of freedom to the rest of the US, don't let us down. Texans must take back Texas from the destructo-crats that are intent upon it's extinction.
Dallas, the next San Francisco?Maybe they will try to take the highest minimum wage title in the nation away from SF…or import some of SF's career homeless beggars…
If that's the case, then what is to become of the government and unions going hand in hand?Insanity, maybe?
As I explained in another comment…every states capital city and the second and third largest population centers are liberal/democrat/progressive.They are there because the money is there.Stop the money and they will go away.
If you can't place your signs on your private property, then place them on public property, City Hall!!! [You're out of here]!!
There is nothing too small, too umimportant, or too mundane for the government not to regulate. Never mind freedom. Welcome to 21st Century America.
what??? I think you have me confused with someone else –
just because I can appreciate the struggles that come with any disability does not make me a progressive – jeez
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