Bully Boys Waxman and Markey Promote ‘Endangerment’ of Economy, Democracy
by Marlo Lewis, Jr.This week (March 3, 2010) was the deadline Reps. Henry Waxman (D-CA) and Ed Markey (D-MA) set for Mark Crisson, President and CEO of the American Public Power Association (APPA), to explain why APPA is urging Senators to support Sen. Lisa Murkowski’s Congressional Review Act resolution to veto the EPA’s finding that greenhouse gas emissions endanger public health and welfare. The Senate may vote on the Murkowski resolution as soon as next week.

Now, aside from the merits of the issue, which I’ll get into in a moment, Waxman and Markey’s behavior is out of line. Waxman and Markey (W/M) are Members of the House of Representatives. What business is it of theirs if the APPA lobbies Senators about a bill pending in the Senate? Senators can conduct their own inquiries without any assistance from W/M. And why didn’t W/M copy Sen. Murkowski or at least Senate Energy Chairman Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) on their Feb. 25 letter to Mr. Crisson? Failure to “cc” any of the principals in the Senate flouts one of the most basic rules of legislative courtesy.
Besides being busybodies, Waxman and Markey are bullies.
In their letter to Crisson, Waxman and Markey demand that he “clarify exactly APPA’s position on EPA’s scientific finding,” and either “provide the scientific basis” for disputing it, or explain why APPA is urging Senators to disapprove the finding if it has no scientific “bases” for disputing it.
There is in fact a strong scientific basis for disputing EPA’s endangerment finding. Peabody Energy presents the evidence in exquisite detail in their petition for a reconsideration of the endangerment finding. The basis that eludes Waxman and Markey may be summarized in one word: Climategate.
EPA’s endangerment finding relies heavily on the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports. Scientists at the heart of the Climategate scandal include several lead authors and contributors to the IPCC reports. They massaged data to produce pre-determined conclusions, ignored data that did not fit into a “nice tidy story line,” conspired to bias the peer-reviewed literature by preventing “skeptics” from publishing, and violated freedom of information laws to prevent critics from checking their data and methods.
These behaviors produced a secretive, agenda-driven process that flouts EPA’s own standards of “transparency and openness,” making the IPCC reports unsuitable as a basis for EPA policy decisions.
However, although the scientific shortcomings of EPA’s endangerment finding are serious, Mr. Crisson need not engage in this debate, because the Murkowski resolution does not take a stand on EPA’s “science” one way or the other.
W/M would like nothing better than to spin the Murkowski resolution as a benighted attempt to determine scientific truth by voting. Ironically, W/M do much the same by continually invoking the alleged “consensus of scientists,” as if a head count could settle scientific controversies. But that’s a topic for another day.
My free (and unsolicited) advice to Mr. Crisson – and anyone else debating opponents of the Murkowski resolution – is to clarify what the resolution is and isn’t. It is not a referendum on EPA’s “science.” Rather, it is a referendum on whether bureaucrats with a vested interest in expanding their power, aided and abetted by trial lawyers and eco-pressure groups with no political accountability to the American people, should make climate and energy policy for the nation. It is a referendum on the constitutional propriety of EPA dealing itself into a position to implement regulatory policies Congress never approved when it enacted and amended the Clean Air Act.
A bit of background is in order here. If allowed to stand, the endangerment finding will compel EPA to establish greenhouse gas (GHG) emission standards for new motor vehicles. That, in turn, will automatically make carbon dioxide (CO2) “subject to regulation” under the Clean Air Act’s pre-construction and operating permit programs. As even EPA acknowledges, stretching those programs to include CO2 would lead to “absurd results” manifestly contrary to congressional intent.
For example, EPA would have to apply pre-construction permitting requirements to tens of thousands of previously non-regulated small business, and operating permit requirements to millions. The permitting programs would crash under the own weight, freezing construction activity and thrusting countless businesses into legal limbo during the worst recession in 50 years.
The endangerment finding is also precedent for economy-wide regulation of greenhouse gases under the National Ambient Air Quality Standards (NAAQS) program. Logically, EPA would have to set the NAAQS for CO2 below current atmospheric levels. Even a global depression lasting several decades would not be enough to bring America (and the world) into attainment with such a standard, yet the Clean Air Act obligates states to attain “primary” (health-based) NAAQS within five or at most 10 years.
To have its cake and eat it (regulate CO2 without hammering small business and igniting a political backlash), EPA proposes in its Tailoring Rule to exempt small sources of CO2 from the permitting programs. This breach of the separation of powers may or may not survive judicial scrutiny. But even if it does, EPA’s proposed small business protections would terminate in six years. Moreover, the Tailoring Rule in no way reduces the threat of NAAQS regulation. The Murkowski resolution, on the other hand, would nip all this mischief in the bud.
How? The Murkowski resolution would veto the endangerment finding’s “legal force and effect.” And that is all it would do. It takes absolutely no position on the scientific validity of EPA’s reasoning or conclusions, as anyone can see who actually takes the trouble to read the text, which is only one sentence long.
And, just in case you’re wondering, Sen. Murkowski is not a global warming skeptic, nor is she opposed in principle to greenhouse gas regulation. She simply believes that climate policy is too important to be made by anyone except the people’s elected representatives.
It is thus a complete misunderstanding to claim, as Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and others do, that the Murkowski amendment is equivalent to Congress voting to overturn the Surgeon General’s report in 1964 finding that cigarette smoking causes cancer. The Surgeon General’s report was simply that – an assessment of the scientific literature. It had zero legal force or effect. In fact, the Surgeon General proposed no remedies at all. It was Congress, not the Surgeon General or any executive agency that, in 1965, required cigarette packages to carry a health warning, and that later prohibited cigarette advertising on television and radio.
If the endangerment finding were simply an assessment of the scientific literature, the Senate would have no business voting on it. But it is much more than that. It is the setup for EPA to take control of vast portions of the economy. It is the trigger for a cascade of regulations potentially more costly than any climate bill or treaty Congress has considered and either rejected or declined to enact or ratify.
W/M need to chill. Whether anyone – the APPA, other trade associations, or Members of Congress – agrees or disagrees with EPA’s “science” is irrelevant. Do W/M support politically accountable policymaking or bureaucratic end runs around the democratic process? Do they think EPA should be allowed to amend the Clean Air Act and violate the separation of powers to avoid the political fallout from regulatory excesses (“absurd results”) that the agency’s “science” would unleash on the American economy?
Finally, do W/M favor establishing NAAQS for CO2? If not, just how do they propose to avoid this “absurd result” if the endangerment finding is allowed to stand?
Too bad W/M get to ask all the questions and don’t have to answer any. Their questions are designed to bully and intimidate – and distract public attention from serious threats to our economy and our democracy, threats the Murkowski resolution would remove.






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The only thing endangered is our entire way of life and common sense.
Are these people just stupid — or do they have an inkling of how dangerous they are?
What an appropriate photo…a liberal with his nose out of joint and hands out looking for money.
Wax-@ss has GOT to be the absolutely most f**ked-up looking individual on the face of the planet. If my dog looked like that, he'd have to tie a pork chop around HIS neck to get me to play with him.
Buck-toothed, jug-eared, rat-faced SOB commie.
You gotta ask, are Pig-Nose and Markey Mark on the ACORN payroll…?
Tides Foundation and George Soros have their grubby ham handed fingers all of this one too..
Where is the Justice Department in all of this obvious bribery and extortion taking place right before our waking eyes?
Come the Revolution, Waxman and Markey will be among the first against the wall.
(Note to any trolling libs- that's *rhetorical hyperbole.* Have your parents look it up for you)
Where "Henry the Rat" is concerned, if he's for it its gotta be bad. Nuf said!
We know ALL these people are the definition of dirtbags… that said why care or listen to what they say?! These guys probably get together with the "bald communist" along with the rest of the radicals and plan out their week!
Time for a civil public lynching… bring back HUAC
Patriots I ask what are you prepared to do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F452KybPEnQ ? This is the question you must seriously ask yourself and your family! Don't play their game… STOP and play your game through http://www.savingtherepublic.com
Heads-up folks, this federal permitting process could easily be used to control the production
& distribution of food products within the US. In Agriculture Industry publications the EPA's
will & ability to deal with these issues has been discussed extensively for a year. It's like play-
poker blindfolded. No one seems to be able to figure the worst or best case scenario.
The way they appear aside! These two are and have been drinking the GOREBULL warming koolaid since day one. They must figure this is their way to leave their mark on humanity as it's "SAVIORS". Stealing Al Gore's thunder how dare they! Maybe they can all discuss it in prison!
The Counter-Revolution is coming and usurping tyrants like Waxman, Market, Pelosi and so many other Democrats will not be dealt with lightly. Expel them from Congress and then try them under RICO. Their Robespierres and other traitors better run and seek political asylum in their beloved Canada, the land of free health care for all.
They believe they're doing the greater good by any means necessary.
Henry Waxman is a Jewish smurf. I have despised that POS for years. Going back to Clarence Thomas and the Anita Hill fiasco. He is nothing but a vile, evil, stooge, with a mean streak bigger than he is.
It's probably a 'decoy' operation, look for hundreds of them in the coming months. Each time
we see one we should look behind the screen, for the action we are not being allowed to see.
Some of the things that are endangering the Economy and Democracy are Henry Morgan-Waxman and Ed Markey.
Please remember to vote in Nov. 2010 and 2012.
Furthermore, Henry Waxman is a Progressive:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProf...
Progressive Tyrants.
Democrats are the problem, not the solution to anything.
.
Wish I had enough nickels to fill his nose. I would be wealthy. LOL
Personally, I'm against exhaling and evaporation and all for the EPA regulating both.
Don't look for Holder to do anything more than protect the criminals in this country!
Perhaps I should retract my above statement that he is a Jew smurf. He has that little pig nose, and pig ears, and pig eyes. In retrospect, he looks and acts like Porky Pig on steroids.
Maybe they are just jealous that they missed being courted by some lobbyists and didn't get their fare share. I personally hate being cynical, but these bozos are not trustworthy.
Anytime these trolls want to 'protect US from danger' you can bet that THEY are the DANGER!!! WE don't need or want protection of their kind! What WE need protection from is THEM!!! WE THE PEOPLE need to put a stop to all this corruption before it goes so far that we cannot!!
It burns me up that these politicians and bureaucrats, assisted by so called scientists, are efforting themselves to create/maintain a state of panic regarding global temperatures. Now they are trying to create yet another crisis by labeling the air we breathe as toxic so they can justify new taxes aimed at fighting said myth. Worse is that in the grand scheme of things these control freaks, under the direction of global and world entities( i.e the U.N), are possibly even attempting to create world wide anxiety as a means to generate support for increasing the size and scope of those entities. Either way the fact remains that there are people in this world that seek to make the rest of us fearful that we might look to them for comfort and safety. Personally I don't like be lied to or played for a fool. It's insulting to the n-th degree.
He's part of the "nepotism governance crowd" and he couldn't care less about the law or the constitution he is in it for the NWO and himself…
If you believe the Bible, then you'll know that Marxism is anti-messiah, Karl Marx said so! If you believe what Obama says, that he's a Marxist! Then Obama publicly says that he's the anti-messiah! That's not induction, that's deduction being used! That's fact! That's what he says! Scary!
He's even uglier on the inside. I'd love to turn him inside out to prove it.
A Progressive, is a Marxist, which is unconstitutional and I have not heard a peep! A Marxist is Anti-Messiah, Karl Mark said so and he should know! Obama says that he is a Marxist! By the reasoning method, which is called scientific deduction, Obama is an anti-messiah! Watch!
For now, but our patience is wearing thin.
waxman is for all the pork for a reason, he is the nephew of Porky Pig, markey was called lunch money as a youth.
You people are stupid. Wait, no, you're ignorant. No, no – you're idiots. Ummmm, OK, how 'bout all of the above?
Global warming is real. The science is undeniable by all but die-hard, head-in-the-sand, think-with-your-a**, if-you-shout-loud-enough-it-will-just-go-away, deniers; who have ZERO knowledge or expertise to do anything more than regurgitate the nonsense being fed to them by big oil, big coal, and their right-wing lackeys in congress. And their paid shills who disguise themselves as 'scientists' or 'experts' – but who are bought by oil, coal, and business lobbies to do nothing more than confuse the issue and drag it out as long as possible, so their owners can continue to rake in their big bucks as the climate inexorably changes in direct response to mankind's global CO2 garbage.
And nothing you say, deny, shout out loud, or raise a ruckus about, will ever change the basic truth of any of that.
I'd be willing to bet they also own some of Gore's carbon credits themselves – follow the money.
I'm sure that pig is feeding from Soros's trough.
First you insult Jews, then smurfs, and now pigs! Goodness, Cowboy, who's left to insult?!!
(Just messin' with ya)!
We're closer to the tipping point than we know.
"Henry, get your nose off that glass."
"Henry. . . Henry Waxman."
"Are you listening to me?"
"Young man, you get you nose off that store window and get over here."
"Henry, I said stop that!"
"Henry!"
I thought I about insulted them all in hitting the high spots, but upon closer inspection of the photo, I reckon we could insult short, baldheaded men who wear glasses……….
Al?
Al Gore?
Is that you Al?
Why don't you crawl back into your igloo and play with your polar bear phallus……….
Senator?
Senator Inhofe?
Is that you, Senator?
Why don't you crawl back into your sandbox and play with your oil derrick tinker toy ………………
Please don't classify all sort bald headed men as stupid smurfs…I'm short and bald headed but maybe I'm just the exception….lol
So if we are all lined up for rationed healthcare, rationed gasoline, and rationed food, with skyrocketing inflation and Big Brother taking over every aspect of our lives, who cares about breathing anyway??
That being said…read Revelations in the one Book that matters.
You know I don't.
Robert Duvall is short and bald, so you are in good company.
Since I, for one, believe in free will as opposed to pre-ordained destiny; I choose to read in the book of science and help FIX our problems.
By the way, no one has said anything about rationing food or even gas. And Big Brother is not intruding on MY life, thank you very kindly for your concern. Why are you so paranoid? You have a vote, just like me. You have freedom to do just about anything you want. You can even leave this country if you think it's so doomed. If it'll help, let me show you the door…….
hate being cynical?……………..we all are, but what are we to do, pretend not to notice all that is
going on under our very noses.
You couldn't find the door if it hit you on the ass on the way through it.
The book of science? What would YOU know about contributing to help fix a problem?
They aren't called "logarithmic" affects.
They are mathematical equations, more affectionately referred to as "AlGoreRhythm's"………..
I choose to fight Dug, as I am doing daily. I choose to not let the things I spoke of earlier happen. My point was that if all of the Progressive agendas are brought to fruition, then we would be facing things like that. (you have to read between the lines) Look around the world.
And paranoid? More like wise enough to notice what is happening and speaking out, and proud that there are enough people that won't put up with it to let it happen.
The science you speak of is only being used to promote opposing agendas. Do you drive a car? Do you use electricity somewhere that isn't supplied by nuclear power? Do you eat food that was brought to market via tractors and trucks? I believe in being responsible with our planet, but not in using some garbage science to shift to industries that lobby Liberals because they aren't smart enough to look out for the industries that provide you and I with what we use today.
So all the lying and fudged numbers coming out of East Anglia doesn't bother you? You said the science is settled, but if the science was a lie in the first place, aren't you perpetuating the lie?
You let yourself get bullied by Al Gore, and now you're saying that Big Brother isn't intruding on your life, you have some growing up to do.
And as far as the name calling, Your mom's house is so nasty you have to wipe your feet to go OUTSIDE….
Christ, Waxman looks like a zombie….
the real issue of climategate, and the one you have seemed to missed, is that the data were mishandled by the researchers. they hid (and partially destroyed) the raw data on which they set up their analysis. they also planned ways to suppress that data from being independently analysed. science is based upon open exchange of data, so that results can be independently verified. the scientists at the centre of the climategate scandal hid their data, flouted FOI requests, threw out the raw set of figures, bullied other scientists during peer-review as if they were all schoolgirls competing for a boyfriend, and, according to the released emails, manipulated data to fit an ideology(real science follows the evidence, they did it the opposite). so, now, even if their conclusions are correct, they have discredited their theory by their misconduct, which is why the issue of a congressional veto over the EPA even comes up; it is to make the system accountable, so that, if the rule's writers end up harming rather than helping the american people, they can be shown the door and replaced with someone to rescind that rule.
Dougie, study the history leading up to the Great Depression, then get back to me in 10 yrs.
How old are you? You sound like an pimple faced jr high age brat. FYI, I grow your food
& if I decide not to raise anything for you to eat this year, you'll be in deep doo doo. Put some
thought into how the US economy works so you may begin to understand the ramifications
of the actions being taken by the current Administration. Go to the grocery store, pick out one
item & research where it came from, how it was processed & packaged. Figure out how it was
transported to your locale. Then multiply it by thousands of items in your local market. Then
contemplate how LITTLE disruption would be required to throw the whole system off balance.
You ignoramus idiot, food rationing will never be 'mentioned', it will just happen. In fact the media
will likely be 'restricted' from doing stories on the subject, to lessen the likelihood of hoarding.
Actually, they are both stupid and extremely mean. In the end, they are destroying their own way of life by destroying America. It's truly sad to see what is going on in our country.
Didn't Al Gore refuse to curb his own gluttonous energy consumption when challenged by Inhofe? Are you really that dense to swallow this nonsense without even questioning it a little?
I sincerely hope you don't actually vote…..
They must have invested in carbon credits and are looking for a good return on their investment.
thank goodness you showed up, I was about to inform Mr eschatologist that we here on this
site have our own resident expert on the subject…..bla…bla…..Seriously C L, you should copy-
write that word you invented, algorerhythms.
Good Lord, what a tired mantra. Many scientists are coming out strong against several hypotheses that comprise support for climate change, as a theory, while some of these hypotheses are collapsing on their own, from scientists admitting to error and inconclusive evidence. The floodgates are beginning to open, in terms of scientists speaking out and papers being published, while there is a large number of scientists who do not support this theory at all. You're not the least bit suspicious about manipulation and withholding of climate data, which is not just an East Anglia thing? What would motivate scientists to cover up? You think no independent scientists are taking them that to task for that? Have you not watched what is going on England, with the government hearings? Its almost comical, in seeing the extent some went to maintain this theory, almost as comical as the mainstream media's coverage of this unfolding scandal, particularly the American media (its a mainstream media killer), which will go down as the greatest single fraud in scientific history.
Start here, http://www.climategate.com You will see links to several papers being published.
I think he may be a closet "Pillow biter" as well…. funny stuff CL.
Thanks for the pat on the back.
To my knowledge, it is my original thought. I never heard it used before, until I came up with it a while back. I have been using it every day since, and people crack up with it……
Is that Nostrilitis's face, or did his neck throw up?
lol… the poster that says the science is proven gives no scientific data! Like Hey DUDE… ( I NEED TO TALK HIS LANGUAGE).
JUST A LITTLE BASICS HERE.
Do you understand that water vapor also absorbs infrared radiation!!! and also at an alarming greater rate. one reason because of its greater ability for density. (clouds, steam,) So if the science is correct DUDE!!! why do we not regulate things that create water vapor!!! because the science is flawed thats why! Its a political move COMRADE… um.. I mean Dude!
Oh lets not get into Methane and Nitrous Oxide that are greater threats to the so called science of global warming… but than maybe he wants a debate and would like to expose his ignorance!
Power to the States!!! Remove Federal Oppression!!!
Is that anything like AlGoregebra?……………….
Oh Doug,Doug,Doug, Don't you know? Haven't you heard? We no longer give you a pass just because you stomp your feet and have a hissy fit. As it stands now–you are the 'deniers'. You can no longer claim to have science on your side as too many more scientists have come out against your way of thinking. Just because you fail to keep up with the news that rest of the world has been reporting on does not mean we will regard you with anything more than a passing shake of the head. You poor thing, you must still be under the impression that we have to go along with what
you say because you've said it so often it "must be true by now". Go back and check all the "facts" and if you do so with an open mind (which I seriously doubt you possess) maybe you would have a better grasp of the situation. You've been duped baby…get over it. We have.
Jeez, I hope you didn't invest any of your hard earned pay in "carbon offsets". Now that would be a shame.
Boy Al Gore must have gotten you to invest alot of your money.
Hand fed by the FED!
LOL
Moleman must still be smarting from all the beatings he got through school. He's one ugly little toady.
Murkowski's resolution moves to slap the EPA down on their attempt to wrestle in some health care by way of the back door.
Time to take Piggy to market.
Now you tell him. He thought it was a Popsicle.
I swear waxmans mom had relations with a pig, I mean he looks like he belongs in a circus.
It would explain his behavior at the public money trough as well.
Yeah your right, Richard Lindzen of MIT is a real idiot.
I mean compared to dougy who apparently has never heard of "A paragraph" we are all just a bunch of tards
What was that? The book of Scientology? That's right, they don't believe in Meds.
Progressives will breed with anything.
I feel sorry for anyone who has to wake up to that. Is he married? If so, is she blind?
Democracy is the communist/progressive code word for Fascism.
The two parties, democrat and republican represent mob rule and rule by law.
I prefer rule by law, not by man.
If we were a democracy, Gore would have been president.
We are a constitutionally limited republic. Our founders were well aware of mob rule – aka "democracy."
Whenever a politician or anyone uses the word, "democracy" we know from whence they have come.
Check Glenn Beck's show with the Rhode Island Communist booklet which proclaims, "Vote Democrat, Vote Communist."
Yes, the two are indistinguishable from each other. The ruling mob is, of course, people like these two slugs and their allies. The rest are serfs, peons. They are looking for a New Holy Roman Empire, and their use of "Caesars" the Latin word for "Czar" is a tell-tale giveaway.
These people are no longer hiding behind a cover of lies. They are out front lately.
I know it's wrong – terribly wrong.
But everytime I see Waxman in a photo or video, I can never manage to focus on what he says…because I am so focused on thinking he looks like an evil rodent.
Is that a new progressive/liberal/dem ploy?
I’ve been a fan of this website but truly, BigGov’t has NO business putting up a picture of the evil Nosferatu!! Ain’t it bad enough to read what this idiot is all about without having to actually see him? The razor sharp,rat-like incisors & “whooped with a ugly stick” face will haunt me forever. Don’t ever believe the foul creature cannot endure the sunlight. Go ahead Waxman and take over society but will somebody PLEEZE throw a rug over that face!
Look for a financial motivation. That's what drives the non-communist lefties – raw greed (entitlement). M/W are a blight to our government. Perhaps it is time to bring back DDT.
He is. She must be.
Who'd marry an guy 5'-5" who looks like a naked mole rat?
To Doug the a**hole: If Al Gore and his criminal gang are so sure of their facts, why did they have to cook the figures to make their case?
skiforever89 seems to have missed all those 'pay for junk science' papers – the only ones against the hypothesis. He also seems to have missed (or, misunderstood, since he clearly has no feel for science) how the vast majority of independent researchers agree that the global warming hypothesis is valid.____cornpone is clueless about the economy. Just a few reasons it is in trouble are 1) the massive subsidies given to oil&coal, 2) many other countries are seizing the green wave of the future while we are being left behind, 3) the fact that we spend untold trillions to fight oil wars in unstable geopolitical regions (spending our wealth & lives to keep our oil-sucking teeth locked onto the tits of Saudi Ariabia), among others. And unthinking people like you assume all of that is not only OK, but that it's somehow worth defending.____Cowboy Logic, I AM a scientist. By the fourth grade, I already forgot more science than you'll know in your whole life.____Guest: I await with baited breath the floodgates you speak of. The ONLY so-called 'scientists' who are truly denying the hypothesis are paid-off shills of the oil & gas lobbies. Read their bios.
Another naked mole rat?
I agree, D. Oh, thinking of the details….
I am so sick of lib criminals getting away with their crap (and you can throw a number of Republicans in that same bonfire heap, too.)
Really, have these people so little sense as to ignore what will surely happen to them when the public finally has had enough? Apparently so.
If my dog looked like that, I would shave his hiney and make him walk backward.
Doug, could you answer some questions for me please?
What caused glaciers to melt before the industrialization of mankind?
Why has the temperature not continued to increase even though fossil fuels are still being used?
Why has Mars experienced climate change?
How many scientists, besides political scientists, are among the IPCC crew?
How do you explain this? http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/0801...
And this? http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/0912...
Oh and how about that pesky Antarctic ice increase?
The man made global warming hoax is over man. Seriously.
Those two a, Comrades Waxman and Markey are the poster boy for the progressive takeover of the Republic…
he is communist pig…
When it hits the fan, and it seems now that it most certainly will, those Progressive Republicans will be the first to get it in the neck, so we won't always have to watch our backs.
Ashrak, I'll be happy to.
1) Because there are other influences of climate change besides anthropogenic greenhouse gases (GHG). But, that does NOT imply that manmade GHG are not a new, important driving influence in their own right. And they are monotonically increasing at rates NEVER BEFORE EXPERIENCED in the history of the planet.
2) The temperature HAS continued to increase. You have to realize that local temperature trends are not the issue. The issue is the global mean temperature, averaged over maybe a decade or so. That has increased monotonically right along with the GHG.
3) We have virtually no clue, nor any data, to understand if Mars has experienced any climate changes over the same interval as the current Earthly changes. Only a handful of probes have ever visited the planet, and only for very brief periods, and only over the last few decades. That's not enough data to even spit at, as far as Martian climate change is concerned.
4) The IPCC is composed of real scientists who have worked for decades in the physical sciences.
Ashrak, in response to your sciencedaily link, here is a direct quote from that link:
Co-author Professor David Vaughan (BAS) says,"This eruption occurred close to Pine Island Glacier on the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. The flow of this glacier towards the coast has speeded up in recent decades and it may be possible that heat from the volcano has caused some of that acceleration. However, it cannot explain the more widespread thinning of West Antarctic glaciers that together are contributing nearly 0.2mm per year to sea-level rise. This wider change most probably has its origin in warming ocean waters."
So, Ashrak – what's to explain? None of this is inconsistent, even in the slightest, with the global climate change hypothesis.
Ashrak, in response to your second link, here is another direct quote from that link:
Most of the carbon dioxide emitted by human activity does not remain in the atmosphere, but is instead absorbed by the oceans and terrestrial ecosystems. In fact, only about 45 percent of emitted carbon dioxide stays in the atmosphere.
Ashrak, again – what's to explain? Neither is this inconsistent with the hypothesis. Even if only 45% is retained, that's still a huge increase in the global atmospheric CO2 burden. And the Keeling measurements prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that atmoshperic levels of CO2 are increasing, and I say again, at rates NEVER BEFORE EXPERIENCED in the history of our planet.
Ashrak,
Therefore, I say again that manmade global warming is not a hoax. And unfortunately, it's not over – it's only increasing, picking up steam, picking up speed, and it will eventually overwhelm us in many parts of the world. Not everywhere. Not everybody. But the effects will be devastating.
People will turn to war as they run out of water. And/or food. Refugees will number in the hundreds of thousands at first, then in the millions, and then the tens and hundreds of millions, and so on.
This is happening, man. Seriously.
"do anything more than regurgitate the nonsense being fed to them by big oil, big coal, and their right-wing lackeys in congress. And their paid shills who disguise themselves as 'scientists' or 'experts' – but who are bought by oil, coal, and business lobbies to do nothing more than confuse the issue "
Well, you have just proved yourself to be a stupid, ignorant idiot, if you actually believe that "Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy hokum.
You really believe this conspiracy shit thrown up by the Warmists to disguise the fact that tgh wheels are coming off the jalopy? Perhaps you would care to call Lindzen, to his face, a "paid shill who disguise himself as a 'scientists' or 'expert' – but who is bought by oil, coal, and business lobbies?" Happer? Lomborg? Pielke? Maybe Freeman Dyson (careful, the old man has a short temper and a mean right hook).
The science is completely deniable by *anyone* who is moderately scientifically literate, and can read. Hansen and Mann and the rest of the crew are *clowns*- but very dangerous clowns, backed as they are by $20bn/yr in government funds, and carbon-trading interests with $4 *trillion* at stake.
But because you desperately want to believe the myth, you blind yorself to the facts, to the collapse of the AGW hoax in waves of scandal and shoddy (or faked) science. It must be true!! Well, it isn't and you're a gullible fool.
Doug
You made Statement that are utterly false!
1)”monotonically increasing at rates NEVER BEFORE EXPERIENCED in the history of the planet.”
My answer:
That is proven false. Just with CO2 in the “History of our planet”. all greenhouse gases can not be measured during the complete lifetime of this planet. How many years do the measurement go back Doug (THE PLANET LIFETIME lol)! People have been only measuring for a few hundred years and only in few places on earth until recent science has been able to in the last 50 years.
Second: Avarage mean Temperature “That has increased monotonically right along with the GHG.”
My answer:
Wrong Again! Increases in GHG have not always historically run parallel with temperature increases. Doug dont forget solar sun activity!!!
third
Mars is not an issue and “The IPCC is composed of real scientists who have worked for decades in the physical sciences” is just to laughable when you follow the science along with the money trail!
Power to the states and stop global (AKA the UN) and federal oppression
skiforever89,
So, you believe that "whether the planet is getting warmer, colder, or neither is a secondary issue to these others"???
Wow. And here I thought that, if we didn't have a planet fit to live on, somehow that fact would be just a little bit important.
"But because you desperately want to believe the myth, you blind yorself to the facts"
Why are you describing yourself?
You really believe this conspiracy shit thrown up by the deniers to disguise the fact that they are all fat and happy with the current status quo, raking in their trillions?
True scientific literacy implies accepting the data and fitting an hypothesis to it. The only hypothesis that fits the data to date is that global warming being driven in part by anthropogenic GHG is a real phenomenon.
Incidentally, Hansen and Mann are not "backed … by $20bn/yr in government funds". And what about the billions in annual profits, just for Exxon alone? And the other billions for the other major players in the oil&coal game? And the huge $ pipeline they feed to pay off their denier shills?
\”And the huge $ pipeline they feed to pay off their denier shills?\”
Prove it, loudmouth. Provide *evidence* of your \”paid shills of Big Oil\”
crap.
\”And the huge $ pipeline they feed to pay off their denier shills?\”
Prove it, loudmouth. Provide *evidence* of your \”paid shills of Big Oil\”
crap.
crazy old hag (are you?): The only hissy fits I've seen on this site are coming from the deniers – like you. I stand by my statement that the VAST MAJORITY of reputable, independent scientists embrace the global warming hypothesis. So, you see, I CAN still claim to have science on my side. Too bad for you.
MadDog (are you?): Yes, I know all about H2O, methane, and the other GHG. I also happen to know about their relative abundances in the Earth's atmosphere, and the net contribution each adds to the global warming trendline. I also know that some of them also trace their origins back to mankind, just like the excess CO2. And I stand by the global climate change hypothesis, supported by all that knowledge. Thank you.
These two maggots are tring to suck as much as they can from the twiching carcass of climate warming roadkill. These are the leaders of this scam. Why is Nostrilitus not smiling? His scam has been run over by the truth.
He looks like he could be the representative from Whoville…
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