GOP Debate Pre-game: Will Romney & Bachmann Road Test DNC Talking Points?
by Mike FlynnTonight, CNN and Tea Party Express co-host a debate of GOP candidates in Tampa, FL, site of the upcoming GOP convention. I’m not really sure how the ‘tea party’ is going to be represented in this debate, since the moderators are pulled from CNN, but there is no way it can be any worse than the MSNBC/Politico forum last week. In that fiasco, John Harris and Brian Williams drew deeply from lefty activists like ThinkProgress to launch attacks on the GOP candidates. It was as if the DNC had done a mind-meld with Harris and Williams (redundant, I know!), and got 90+ minutes to prospect for material for negative campaign ads.
Color me naive, but CNN is not MSNBC. Liberal, sure. But, it at least tries not to seem totally in the tank for the left, unlike Politico and MSNBC. So, I don’t think the DNC will own the same real estate in Wolf Blitzer’s brain as it had in Harris/Williams. Then again, according to news reports today, it won’t have to. Amazingly, two leading candidates for the GOP nomination, Mitt Romney and Michele Bachmann, look set to take a page from the DNC and ThinkProgress playbook and attack Gov. Rick Perry for daring to speak the truth about Social Security. Below is a flier the Romney campaign is distributing in Florida.
And, yesterday, Bachmann’s campaign had this to say to Byron York:
“Bernie Madoff deals with Ponzi schemes, not the grandparents of America,” says a Bachmann adviser. “Clearly she feels differently about the value of Social Security than Gov. Perry does. She believes Social Security needs to be saved, that it’s an important safety net for Americans who have paid into it all their lives.” … “She strongly disagrees with his position on that…”
So let me get this straight; we now have TWO GOP candidates against any kind of entitlement reform? Really? We can’t begin to get out from under our overwhelming debt burden unless we tackle these auto-pilot programs. You could close every government agency and slash defense spending in half and we’re still screwed if we don’t reform Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. How can Romney or Bachmann seek to be President if they don’t understand this basic fact? I mean, its not just a theory…its math.
Of course, they do understand this. Just as everyone in DC understands that these programs are unsustainable. You could fill every hour of the day attending conferences and meetings in DC where everyone discusses how our entitlement programs are killing us. For decades, there have been warnings, white papers and commissions detailing this very open secret. Seriously, EVERYONE knows this.
Gov. Perry simply had the chutzpah to admit it publicly. Michael Kinsley once famously observed that, in Washington, a gaffe is when a politician accidentally states the truth. Gov. Perry has done that. He has admitted what everyone already knows; Social Security IS a ponzi scheme, in any meaningful understanding of the term. We can’t “fix” it or “save” it until we admit this simple fact.
Now, I know supporters of Romney and Bachmann will counter that the candidates aren’t against entitlement reform, per se. And, I’m sure they have paragraphs of focus-group-tested words about the need to “reform” these programs. The problem is that we’ve heard similar talk from politicians for decades. Damn near 100% of the people elected to office over the last 30 years, from both parties, have publicly agreed that we need to “reform” entitlements. Hell, even Obama says this. The problem, though, is that no one ever does anything about it.
So, to a degree, Romney and Bachmann’s rhetoric is just standard operating procedure for politicians. Except, they are flirting with a dangerous game that is far worse. They are demagoguing the issue for short-term political advantage. They are exploiting DNC talking points and trying to terrify seniors into securing the GOP nomination for President. How can you possibly “reform” entitlements if your candidacy is based on scaring people about changes to these very programs? Were either to become President, there would be no mandate to reform entitlements. In fact, there would be an opposite mandate. Its the status quo that’s killing us. If 2012 is about anything, preserving the status quo ain’t it.
The other thing Romney and Bachmann are missing is that Gov. Perry is right on the politics of this. For decades, the American public has been fed a steady diet of happy-talk from politicians. And, the public sees where we are. The happy-talk isn’t working. It is long past time for politicians to come clean with the public. My sense is that the public is ready for this. Decisions over the next 18 months will determine whether we are again that “shiny city on the hill” or whether we are Detroit. DC consultants may not understand this…but the public does.
Let the truth set you free.
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30 Comments
Yes, Romney & Bachmann will attack Perry using DNC Talking Points with regard to Social Security, and, the only mystery here is whether or not Ron Paul come to the defense of Governor Perry on the Social Security issue?
Romney doesn't just 'road test' Democratic talking points, but actual Democratic legislation. (Unless they turn out to be unpopular. Then he'll backpedal fast enough to win the Tour de France in reverse.) The man is a human chameleon. He'll be anything you want so long as you let him be President. I'd buy a used car from Barack Obama first.
Bachmann, unfortunately, is steadily proving herself to be a sellout. She's clearly trying to cash in her conservative street cred to become Romney's Vice President. It's not a bad strategy, since she's not going to be top of the ticket, but her tactics are about to blow up in her face. It's too bad, but she clearly doesn't know how to pick her allies. She's got good ideals, but her judgement in the character of others is severely lacking.
Either way, this fix is already in. In the long run, they need each other as badly as they need to stop Perry.
I aint too enthusiastic for Perry, but the fact remains that Social Security and related entitlements are one of the greatest problems for this country and Perry got that spot on and there's no denying it took serious political balls to do so. I'm surprised Bachmann lieutenants are trotting out such moderate BS however. But its not too surprising now that I think about it…one of the underlying anachronisms of the Tea Party has been that beacuse of its overwhelmingly older demographic, there is still allot of attachment to entitlements which help that demographic…I still remember when you would get Old White Person A yelling "No to Socialized Medicine!" right next to an Old White Person B yelling "Hands off our medicare!".
Fortunately, I think most Tea Partier's know that such protectionism of Social Security is completely against their own values. Here's hoping moderate Republican's in Florida don't hand the nod to Romney beacuse of Social Security.
Pandering to the voters who are trapped on government assistance is a must now days,we have half of America sucking on the government utter,that's a lot of votes.
And this is why absolutely nothing ever gets done when it comes to shrinking the damned government. While Democrats refuse to even consider entitlement reform of any kind, Republicans tend to wuss out simply because they think it will cost them votes if they bring up the subject. In the end, that makes them not all that different from Democrats. It might be smart politically, but it's dumb as hell if you actually care about the country. Don't be surprised if Perry starts to back off his stance within a month or two.
I think Americans are ready for honesty. Enough of us out here know the party can't go on forever. Present a well-thought-out plan and you won't scare people, no matter how much the Dems may try freak people out.
What ought to scare people is the truth — that we're broke and these programs won't be there for those of us who are younger. To use the liberals' favorite word, it's unfair that we should be forced to pay for all this stuff when we'll never get the chance to use it.
We are being suckered by semantics. The MSM wants nothing better than to see the GOP self-destruct here.
FOCUS, candidates.
Here's the question that must be answered. Millions of Americans consider Social Security to be an earned benefit, not an entitlement program. The longer someone has worked, the stronger our feelings about getting back what we were required to pay in.
Start from there and figure out what to do. Sure, it's a Ponzi scheme. Now let's get past that to solutions.
For the sake of the country people, wake up. Stop buying into the "Meme" (Used prodigiously on Fox News Watch last week btw – to describe the framing of the narrative) that the media uses to shape who is considered a "front runner" DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK. Don't buy into Rick Perry, Mitt Romney, or even Michelle Bachmann (whom I still support as a full disclosure). FIGURE OUT WHO BEST REPRESENTS YOU AND STICK BY THEM!
If we do that, we will have a true democracy. Not a media/government oligarchy.
OT: GBTV started showing Glenn's 2 hour program today. Glenn had a very good commentary on the shameful 9/11 ceremonies yesterday, highlighting the absence of the first responders and clergy from the official ceremonies. We need to recognize those who were true heroes that day, God Bless our first responders!
Let's just hope the debate tonight is about the economy, because everything else depends on it.
(not holding my breath)
It will become an entitlement when means testing is applied. The idea that you will not get what you paid in makes it just another charity.
I am not surprised with Romney's anything to win strategy. Bachmann may lose my respect tonight. We'll just have to watch and see…..
I expect every other question will be about global warming, evolution, abortion, or why the candidates are so "anti-science."
I said last week that Romney is a RINO and once elected we may see his colors change from the election trail. I am surprised at Bachman, though. She doesn't need to throw entitlement reform under the bus to compete with Perry. They are both strong candidates and either would, in my estimation, do a good job as POTUS. Romney, he's a slickmeister IMO. JR
Sadly, you might be right about Michele Bachmann. I posted onto her facebook page (as I think she might actually see it there – or her staff will see it) and that she's quickly losing the luster that she once had.
Further saddening the issue, besides for Perry being right in calling it a Ponzi scheme, is that for other reasons, Perry will never get my vote in the general election (having chosen to have no party affiliation, I can't vote in the primaries either).
I wouldn't want to but as a last resort, I would consider moving out of the country entirely.
Mike,
I think this is the best article you have ever written.
"The other thing Romney and Bachmann are missing is that Gov. Perry is right on the politics of this. For decades, the American public has been fed a steady diet of happy-talk from politicians. And, the public sees where we are. The happy-talk isn’t working. It is long past time for politicians to come clean with the public. My sense is that the public is ready for this."
Yeah. Don't worry, be happy.
Happy, happy; Ha-Ha.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
~ George Orwell ~
1984
I completely disagree with your view that Bachmann is selling out to win a VP position, but then again, I don't support Perry, nor Romney. That leaves me with Michelle Bachmann, Gary Johnson or Herman Cain.
If Romney and Bachman do less than be straight forward about social security, that narrows the field of candidates for me. We can't afford a procrastinator or a phoney.
Ladies and gentlemen, in this corner wearing yellow stripes we have Mitt "the twit" Romney and Michelle "wannabe a mama grizzly" Bachmann running to maintain the status quo and in the other corner proudly wearing red, white and blue please raise your hands and make some noise for the next President and Vice President of America, Rick Perry and Sarah Palin..
But doesn't it bother you that we have gone back another decade without accomplishing anything? Back then the hot button phrase was "Lock Box." Now it's "Ponzi Scheme."
Sure, it's an opening for discussion. Now let's get some ideas going. Didn't Cain talk about the Chilean plan? Let's explore that.
It's sad to see Bachmann cater to the liberal sacred cow entitlement vote. They wouldn't have voted for her if hell froze over anyways. Mitt! Aww, who cares what the hell this clown says, he'll just float along with the current in the end run.
Sure Perry has some BG issues, and he's not innocent of catering to the illegal immigration, but given he's in Texas, I don't know what could be done there… the Hispanic population now surpasses the WASP population in public schools.
If Perry sticks to his guns on this it will spell trouble for Bachmann, MItt and other Repubics. All Perry has to do is start quoting the evidence that both sides (Red and Blue) have called it a scam since the 60's. Even Romney called SS administrators criminals in his book, so if ain't a ponzie scheme tell us Michelle, Mitt, Newt, Cain, what the hell is it?
Romney must be nervous that Perry is about to give him the cayote treatment. I read the flyer, and Romney claims:
Perry believes SS is a failure, yet Romney didn't dispute that. Any program that cannot sustain itself is a failure.
Perry believes SS is unconstitutional. Well, no, Mitt, that's not exactly what he said. He said it was shoved down our throats at the expense of the Constitution and limited government. How is that false?
Perry does not believe SS should exist. Yet, Romney never gives a Perry quote to prove that claim.
So Romney does not dispute the Constitutionality of SS, passed by a SCOTUS that FDR threatened to stack with additional justices if the court did not go along with him. Nor does Romney provide actual quotes from Perry that SS should not exist.
I was responding to an issue that you pointed out, peoples' perceptions of what SS is. These days people get out more than they paid in, plus we added children who's parent has died , plus SSI.
My mentally challenged brother in law never paid SS but is on SSI. My 87 year old dad has gotten much more than he paid in. The numbers don't add up.
I am open to all ideas.
how disappointing…politicians acting like politicians.
I am surprised a bit at Bachmann but not Romney
It doesn't look good for 2012 so far. Competition's heating up on who will be the new 'maverick'.
I don't personally dislike President Obama as some seem to, so understand this is no attempt at a joke. But to understand what you're up against if you expect an election or a president to turn things around, you need to keep in mind that this country voted for Barrack Obama as it's President in 2008. There might be enough displeased people to swing the vote, but has ANYBODY genuinely changed? Relax your mind, step back from your political views, and just watch people and listen. America's problems are neither isolated within the political arena nor do they even stem from politics. Our politicians merely reflect who we are. They sell their self to us based on what THEY think that WE will buy. And they typically use tried and proven techniques. Now, with that firmly established, study both sides as they square off in debates and in advertisements and enjoy just how good WE look in the mirror.
American Exceptionalism?
When Obama beats Perry next year, don't say I (and countless others) didn't tell you so.
Until the two party system is reformed or dismantled altogether, you will get a choice between Statist/Statist-light, and Bilderberger/Bilderberger (sorry, I know that 'B' word makes a lot of people instinctively bury their heads in the sand….but somehow if I were to write Globalist/Globalist, nobody would have a problem. Hmmmm….), in EVERY single election.
And to anyone who wants to label me as a 'troll', take two seconds to click my profile before you make an ass of yourself. Recognizing reality doesn't make you a 'troll'.
Fair enough.
I think Ms. Bachman just lost my potential vote in the primary. Now is not the time to try and score political points by mincing words. The truth of what Perry said is obvious to everyone. If she wants to argue about what type of measures are needed to reform/save it that's fine, but you can't deny it is not only broken but it was malformed from the start being constructed on numbers which were temporary realities and predictably would change over time.
Romney is a lost cause anyhow. He's a Scott Brown Republican who may be a good politician and a good executive, but has no real conservative roots. The flier is not surprising in one bit.
Bachmann should not have attacked Perry on this point. What a shame. Let's spell it out for her, because I know her supporters are crestfallen at her unprincipled statement: Bachmann is a woman, her sense is that voters will respond to an emotional plea regardless of the facts. She has heard the demagoguery used against Republicans throughout the years, and chafed against it.
Given the opportunity to use it to gain the ground she is losing fast in primaries, she did. In doing so, she's lost all credibility with me. Game over.
Remember Paul Ryan's budget proposal? He said he wanted to strengthen and preserve entitlements, but he came out and said just how unsustainable they are. He was attacked by democrats as wanting to "destroy social security." Those who wish to keep social security on the unsustainable path it is on are the ones who are destroying it. Perry needs to be nominated AND elected on a mandate to fix social security, or it just doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of happening.
You start by telling the truth. Finding out who your friends are. Great men like Gov Jindal. Go from there.
The fact is Rick Perry is an idiot.
I will defend both Romney and Bachmann here, even if I won't vote for them.
From a political standpoint, what he wrote in his book is different from what he's saying now.
Just like when he passed the DREAM Act, called for bi-national health care and open borders, but now wants National Guard – many of which are over in Iraq on their upteenth tours – to guard the border.
Just like after taking stimulus money and using it to create government jobs, he's now against stimulus.
Just like after he urgently sent a bi-partisan letter asking Congress to pass an "economic recovery package", he is now against bailouts.
Just like after he supported pro-choice Rudy Guiliani, he's now for a federal amendment regarding abortion.
Just like after he did the Response with false teachers who twist God's Word and make failed prophecies, he's now signing Bibles in South Carolina.
Why can't we just believe Rick Perry the first time and not have to have him come out and clarify?
Oh, there was an "opt-out" for HPV vaccines, even if parents didn't know their kid was getting one or that it was causing convulsions and death? Oh, that makes it so much better!
So let me get this straight; we now have TWO GOP candidates against any kind of entitlement reform?
I don't see Bachmann's stance this way. she wants to make changes, nut you could NEVER just scrap the system and tell everyone who is receiving SS "sorry, no more." you CANNOT just eliminate it all at once. a phase-out is the only feasible way to solve the problem.
I think we all agree that these debates, if they produce anything at all, create soundbites and dissension. We need a little more depth from our candidates if we want to know how they'll govern. That being said, if you're going to watch the debate, you might as well have fun in the process. Play BINGO! http://bit.ly/omqqsp
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