National Backlash Against Public Pensions
by Kristina RasmussenWednesday’s Wall Street Journal editorial highlighted the baby steps Illinois is taking toward enacting public employee pension reform, noting that this could be the “start of a nationwide backlash against the scandal of runaway public pensions.”
State government employees in Illinois receive generous defined-benefit pension plans with compounded annual cost of living increases. As of August 2009, 536 Illinois public employee retirees earned a pension of more than $100,000. Former state employee (and now U.S. Senator) Roland Burris received a pension payment of $121,747 in 2009. You can look up the individual pension payments for state retirees at IllinoisOpenGov.org.
In response to the public’s growing frustration with Illinois’s habitual fiscal mismanagement, the General Assembly passed a pension reform bill that keeps the defined-benefit structure but institutes a benefit cap, requires an older retirement age, and prohibits double dipping. Governor Pat Quinn has yet to sign the bill, but he called for similar reforms in his March budget blueprint.
As I pointed out in the Wall Street Journal editorial, what the legislature passed were the bare minimum reforms. They only apply to newly hired employees, not existing employees.
Considering that Illinois has an $83 billion unfunded pension liability for benefits already earned by current employees, prospective benefit reforms will need to be buttressed by a pension funding mechanism that also tackles runaway government spending.
The public employee unions in Illinois are squealing over the changes, but the reforms—however minor—are long overdue.
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143 Comments
I think there is a backlash against people from nefarious "think tanks" with names like "Illinois Policy Institute."
Actually, this is corruption at it's finest. The people who get those exorbitant pensions are in charge of making the laws and policies, they basically voted for their own benefits package. Public employees also now make almost 2x what a comparabe private employee makes. There is a difference between being smart and being a troll, but if you are a troll, perhaps the trolls with more than you look smart.
Governments need to do away with pensions entirely. Offer 401(k)s or whatever the government equivelent is.
Amazing that public pensions are so poorly negotiated and funded compared to the private plans. Just proves that capitalism is more capable of doing a decent job vs government negotiators who are too busy sucking at the government teat and spending from a budget that the public taxpayer gets stuck bailing out.
Public employees also now make almost 2x what a comparabe private employee makes.
What do you mean "now"? You mean now after you all bought in to the bubble created by Gates and company burst? What you say is a lie and you know it – even "now."
anon, I'm still trying to find any logic or sense in your post. Aside from your ignorant assumptions, your post contains nothing useful.
"Something about that tickles me.'
only because you are totally ignorant about government employees,…………….
who neither work for less but certainly ended up with more,…………………………
Someday I will tell you about my 7.5 years working for the Chicago Housing Authority.
but for now read macnettes's take on this,…….enlightening.
"Capitalism" has led to the mass export of jobs and the bankrupting of this nation. See, these "capitalists" are not American. You have been hoodwinked. Admit it.
That's because anon is a dou*hebag troll…he hits every conservative site with his marxist comments.
The tax payers are funding ever increasing government budgets, year over year…
There are less and less people earning an income to pay taxes in support of the growing government… yet the gov continues to grow.
When the breaking point is reached, what does gov want to do? It wants to raise taxes… which leads to less people paying taxes. Its a downward spiral.
I applaud ALL cost sutting efforts in all level of governemnt.
Yes, it took a recession to finally get the state and fed gov in a position to finally see thier ponzi schemes are wrong. But, we have to make sure our gov keeps a fiscally lean mindset even in times of economic prosperity.
Hardly surprising kasteer, the mentality of trolls is make everybody bottom feeders and reward all those hard working government slugs, those such as anon_thinker will only find peace when there is no middle class left – too bad nobody ever taught the lame brained what happens after that step is achieved.
When the Cook County board president died (Stroger Sr.) died,………….
there was a power struggle for who would take over (multi-billions budget).
One of the board member was appointed temporary president until the a deal could be made as to who be made the permanent president.
This temp served only four months at this position tnan she was "retired" when Stroger JR was appointed permanently.
She now gets over 100,000 yearly pension for her service.
"the government employees who were willing to work for less ended up with more" "Those public employees are looking pretty smart"
"Illinois has an $83 billion unfunded pension liability"
Happy is the public employee with an unfunded retirement. Pretty "smart."
"anon, I'm still trying to find any logic or sense in your post."
Don't hurt yourself thinking. Try reading the post again. There are three points.
1) Public employees are looking pretty smart
2) After the private sector had their retirements stolen in the free market
3) And after signing on to a job that earned less the public employees ended up with more than those who gambled their retirements in the stock market.
God you people are stupid.
We'll see how much gloating you do when your paid in IOU's. The private sector pays your bills fool.
Jobs have been exported because of our wonderfull government restrictions on the free market, tremendous red tape on businesses, rediculous tax system, minimum wage, Unions, and over reaching OSHA.
If we minimize the Fed gov and get the gov out of things where it doesn't belong (99% of the economy), our growth and jobs will return!
Pensions are a good place to start. Then how about the disability programs ? I heard that 98% of the retirees from the Long Island Railroad are on disability. You would conclude that it was a dangerous place to work, but if you've ridden it, you know that it usually takes a long time to get anywhere and its pretty hard to fall off a stationary train.
Maybe they are wrenching their backs on the golf course ? What used to be the divide between the factory owner and the factory worker will become the divide between the private sector worker and the public sector worker. It's already a giant chasm.
Yes, we need to cut our military budget most of all. And we can stop giving welfare payments to that tiny, rich nation of Israel which has attacked us repeatedly.
Check this out:http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-fe...
According to USA Today, if you add the average salary and benefits package, a federal employee makes in the neighborhood of $110k, a private employee makes about $70k, not exactly 2x, but 1.6x is still egregious. 1.6 rounds to 2. Next time you accuse someone of lying, have some facts to back yourself up, you just look even dumber when you don't.
The big thing people are pissed about is the egregiousness of the pensions. The private sector moved away from pensions decades ago when the 401(k) was created. I take advantage of 401(k)s and I want the government employees to as well. Remember, they work for us, not the other way around!
"Happy is the public employee with an unfunded retirement. Pretty "smart." "
You tell me me who ended up being "smarter"? The public employee with an underfunded retirement or the private sector worker who had his retirement stolen?
Actually, taxes and socialism has led to the decline. The world's 2nd highest taxes (depending on the state you're in), combined with socialist regulations and outright socialism in our competitor's markets (cheap labor in China) have driven up our costs. However, if you still don't like Capitalism, I suggest you go to Cuba or China, you'd love it there, just don't tell anyone you don't like the government and you should be fine there!
From YOUR SOURCE:
State government employees had an average salary of $47,231 in 2008, about 5% less than comparable jobs in the private sector. City and county workers earned an average of $43,589, about 2% more than private workers in similar jobs. State and local workers have higher total compensation than private workers when the value of benefits is included.
Ya anon………..those that suck off the teat of government of us the poor working taxpayers are just so brilliant. Well guess what…………….when private industry doesn't function properly, those that were participants in those retirement plans take it on the cuff and don't have anything to fall back on.
Now that is beyond obvious to the objective observer, that our governmental agencies are not functioning properly, they too should suffer the same fate. No longer should their incompetence be bolstered on the backs of the taxpaying hard working American citizens.
So when you wake up to reality and stop living in your Utopian dream (that only can exist off the sweat and labor of others) check back in and maybe then and only then will anyone on this site give a rats azz about anything you post.
I think I hear you mother calling you………………….you best run along now.
1. Again, corruption and intelligence are seperate things, but you have no intelligence, so I can understand your mix-up
2. A 401(k) is named for the section of the tax code that it is created under. In other words, it is a government created program, I say what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
3. I've actually done pretty well on my 401(k), it has to do with watching the markets and adjusting allocations. But, I can see for people like you who lack intelligence or sophistication, welfare is more attractive.
"Former state employee (and now U.S. Senator) Roland Burris received a pension payment of $121,747 in 2009. "
Ahhh…such is the paradise of the career politician. Great pension, exempt from HC, etc etc gag me
Our government making it pointless for companies to keep their business run out of the U.S. might have a little more to do with it than "Capitalism". If it weren't for capitalism, most of those companies wouldn't exist in the first place.
The horses pulling the wagon are getting tired. Public employees, they supposedly based on the title work for the public, however the public isn't allowed any input as to their pay and benefits structure, nor can the public fire them. When the horses pulling the wagon approach a steep hill the usual practice is to lighten the wagon, but now we see the contents of the wagon demanding the horses not only pull what is already in the wagon, they want more to be added. Eventually the horses balk and refuse to pull, no manner of pleading or beating can get the horses to pull. We are fast approaching the balking point. The unions and their members had better get a clue.
Irrelevant.
Nope. Sorry still don't get your ignorance. Glad to see you can count to 3 tho. Have a nice day.
Anon
Who is going to be on the hook for the pensions? It's the tax payers! Without free markets where will the money come from to pay the wonderful public employees? I think you should start seeing your therapist twice a week now and have him work on your dosages.
Yeah, let's take away people's pensions after they worked their whole lives making less than those in the private sector – THAT WAS THE TRADE OFF. Meanwhile, let's give a trillion dollars to banks who pay their CEO's millions in bonus. Your perspective is scary.
NObama is already underfunding our military and projecting an underfunding throough 202. That should make you happy.
Unfortunately, your anti Israel rant is getting old. Your racial, bigot laced remarks are not welcome.
"Now that is beyond obvious to the objective observer, that our governmental agencies are not functioning properly, they too should suffer the same fate. "
Typical teabagging redneck thinking. My job sucks. My retirement sucks. My choices failed.
And it's all the fault of the public employee who chose the safer path and it is now mandatory that we make him as poor as the teabaggers.
You are a sad specimen of a human being. Quit blaming others for your problems and get your ass to work. Bringing others down to your level of failure serves no one.
Maybe if anything good can come of all the light that is being shed on the corruption that is so rampant in our society, will be a changed awareness of everyone as to what has and continues to go on with our government(s). This applies from local, county, state and federal levels.
It has gone on too long and now the covers are coming off what has been a scam that would make Bernie Madoff look like a saint.
So we all need to insist, just as Illinois has started, that our elected officials probe and close these loop holes once and for all. And who cares about those that have had these promises made to them, and why should these corrections only apply forward. I don't remember anyone coming to the private sector worker who lost all of their retirement savings at the behest of flawed public policy initiated by the drones in Congress. They have no one to look to to make them whole.
So just pick a date in the past and adjust things to that date and let them enjoy their retirements, just as many of us private sector taxpayers will have to do.
No free passes, just because it is public work and they have the force of the IRS gun to confiscate even more from the private sector to bolster their scams. You know like Biden says, let's all have some skin in the game.
And we know the Democrats are all for equality at any cost…………….right??
No they won't. Foreign governments own and/or subsidize their industries, dump the products on our shores and bankrupt our industries so they can jack up the prices later. All this is easily and elegantly prevented by having tariffs.
typical.
Yet, NObama wants to punish CEOs of private business, wall street, banks, etc… because they make too much money…. The ignorance is overwhelming.
Yep. It's hard to collect a pension from and entity that's broke. And Govt is broke.
Right. Further, free trade is used to create global government. Ever globalist control freak loves "free trade."
It's good enough for government work.
As I illustrated from the USA Today, there really is no trade off, they get their cake and eat it too. Plus, you haven't heard the nuts and bolts of my proposal either. Double dipping should be eliminated. If you are already retired, keep your pension. If you have not retired, figure the accrued value, make a deposit into a 401(k) and convert it. This way the employee can do what they choose with the money they would otherwise put in their pension, and the government is not on the hook for an indefinite period of time. Another thing is to do away with survivorship on existing pensions. If some 60 yr old marries a 25 yr old gold digger and then croaks, there is no reason she should be on the dole for the rest of her life. I say if you are worried about your spouse, get life insurance! I also never said I was in favor of any bailouts. But, CEOs are herdly comparable to your run of the mill government employee.
Eh…. pointless. So tell me how Israel fits into this?
So, why are we giving billions to foreign governments that have attacked us like Israel?
Just a little reminder. Obama screwed the pensions and retirement funds. Several owned secured bonds in chrysler and GM. He of course shafted them. If we look at the largest bluest states of illinois, California and New York, they have a trillion or two under funded pensions.
The law says when a pension folds, the retired worker gets a single onetime lump settlement. Like 40,000 dollars one time. Ask the airlines what their pension payouts were. By law, a few of these pensions are both insolvent and bankrupt. No one wants to tip them over.
Burris is a one termer according to him. Add the pension of the fed to that of the state. Cha-ching!
Thank you for including that last line to further illustrate your stupidity.
Higher standard of living drives up the cost. THAT is what is coming under attack. The globalists won't be happy until the entire world is in 3rd world conditions – THAT is the plan. It was the way things were for thousands of years and the elites want a return to it.
Who's retirement was stolen? Enron investors, yes. Madoff investors, yes. All of us in Social Security, yes. My 401k is doing great. You would do well too if you believed in the stock market, or 401ks.
I don't know anon, let's see, the public employee might get IOUs (useful huh), but be exempted from social security, which the private employee still qualifies for.
You don't really comprehend well. They are only paid more IF you include the thing you want to take away. 401(k)? It takes some nerve to even mention that once the farce of our so-called "market" was revealed with the latest plunge in fictional worth.
Hey K, Why are you even looking for logic in a Marxist comment? These people don't think, they regurgitate. The nice thing is, the people who are so frustrated with the way things are going answer these agitators and I get to learn new things. Other than that, the anti-individualists are mental infants who never grew up. That is easily supportable because adults take responsibility for themselves and don't expect everyone else to pick up their slack. They have no concept of the American Dream, so they seek to inflict damage on others to compensate for their lack of self-reliance.
I'll tip'em….
Because the people of a society who became self absorbent, HONESTY in America has now become extinct! HONESTY will never ever come back to America until the people atone and realize that Barack Obama, IS NOT ONLY THE ILLEGAL PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES! He is also THE SWINDLER IN CHIEF! Only then will HONESTY return TO AMERICA! IT’S UP TO YOU IF YOU CARE!
Well that’s just my opinion!!
Private retirement investments were purposely tanked by the same kind of statists that failed to fund the public pensions.
You don't realize it, but both the private and public sector employee has the same enemy. And that enemy is the same "progressive leadership" that you worship. This same cabal has destroyed the future of average workers in the public AND private sectors, and still you spout their party line. You are despicable, and just as guilty as the criminals that you support.
But then, as a low-level mafia accountant, what more could we expect from you?
Again, see my comments to anon, if you invest right you will do well with a 401(k), especially with the tax advantages and employer match. What is wrong with government employees making comparable wages? Hmmmmm, you wouldn't happen to be a gov't employee with an inferiority complex would you?
1) Smart? Hahaha, and you call others stupid.
2) Your alternative to the free market? Please, since you're a genius, provide one that can be defended. Certainly you can't support a program that's entirely government jobs, because that model has only failed everytime it's been attempted.
3) They signed up for a job that is called PUBLIC SERVICE. That means that they recognize they are seperate from the rules of capitalism, and abandon their pursuit for profit. Gambling on the stock market? The stock market is nothing more than a casino? there's no such thing as wise investment strategies? We should all just look to Uncle Sam to handle our money!
The public sector is paid by the private sector. If the public sector makes more, it leads to bankruptcy. Public Sector work (excluding the obvious fire, police, teacher etc) is a safe haven for people that can't swim in the real world. They don't have to work nearly as hard, don't have to be innovative, hardly have to worry about being fired. It's a joke, you're a joke, and the fact that a public employee could ever make more for the same job is nothing but corruption. Idiot.
Great post!
I respond because I don't feel like letting this stuff go without pointing out how ignorant the posts are. I'm tired of all this sociaIist crud being pushed on me from the gov… at least here I can direct it at someone who responds. Also, I have the time…
How exactly would you consider the market to be flat? And even if it was, you can still make money, it's called investing in dividend-bearing stocks, or bonds. Again, to my original point, you lack intelligence or sophistication, so you rightly prefer welfare.
Funny you should mention that with all of your 'tax the rich' rhetoric!
1) Smart? Ya, that's it…
2) Your alternative to the free market? Please, since you're a genius, provide one that can be defended. Certainly you can't support a program that's entirely government jobs, because that model has only failed everytime it's been attempted.
3) They signed up for a job that is called PUBLIC SERVICE. That means that they recognize they are seperate from the rules of real business and capitalism, and abandon their pursuit for profit. You really think the stock market is just a casino, don't you? Sigh….
Tublic sector is paid entirely by the private sector. Without the private sector, there is no public sector. If they make more, it leads to bankruptcy. Public Sector work (excluding the obvious fire, police, actually necessary public jobs etc) is a safe haven for people that can't swim in the real world. They don't have to work nearly as hard, don't have to be innovative, hardly have to worry about being fired. It's a joke, you're a joke, and the fact that a public employee could ever make more is nothing but corruption. Idiot.
1) Smart? Ya, that's it…
2) Your alternative to the free market? Please, since you're a genius, provide one that can be defended. Certainly you can't support a program that's entirely government jobs, because that model has only failed everytime it's been attempted.
3) They signed up for a job that is called PUBLIC SERVICE. That means that they recognize they are seperate from the rules of real business and capitalism, and abandon their pursuit for profit. You really think the stock market is just a casino, don't you? Sigh….
The public sector is paid entirely by the private sector. Without the private sector, there is no public sector. If they make more, it leads to bankruptcy. Public Sector work (excluding the obvious fire, police, actually necessary public jobs etc) is a safe haven for people that can't swim in the real world. They don't have to work nearly as hard, don't have to be innovative, hardly have to worry about being fired. It's a joke, you're a joke, and the fact that a public employee could ever make more is nothing but corruption.
You are half-right. If we did make everything here, we would have more employment, true, but things would also cost more-a lot more, so you could not buy as much stuff. Take a deep breath, breathe, relax, it is ok, you're just wrong…….again.
Actually,they should force them to invest it in Treasury Bonds. I can guarantee that the financial mess would fix itself, or there will be fewer folks wanting to work there.
Thing is, there was no negotiation with public pensions, honestly, have you ever seen a pension plan on a ballot? What employer would negotiate a 90% pension? The people who get them are the people who "negotiated" for them….with other government employees who get pensions.
How do you think American companies make as much money as they do? We sell our stuff overseas, it creates growth!
There we go, Big D! I knew you couldn't go that long without bringing up Israel or Zionists. I was starting to worry there for a minute. I thought that maybe you came to your senses, but no, you're still the same old D we know and love! /sarc
'Quit blaming others for your problems and get your ass to work. Bringing others down to your level of failure serves no one.'… aren't you the pot calling the kettle black…
Yeah D. Even if we allowed all the Jews to die painful deaths ( your ultimate goal) is it still OK to pay these six figure pensions? Of course if we kill all of the Jews in the public sector, we will save a few bucks.
Is that would you had in mind?
Can we do some kind of "value-added" calculation and compare the contributions of government workers with that of private industry workers? Screw that, let's take a standard aptitude test and compare the gov't vs. private employees scores…then compare work style characteristics of the two…that would shut everyone up. The private sector comes out ahead in every case…
kzsteer………."over-reaching OSHA" & EPA. Many industries have gone off-shore to escape
impossible EPA regulation.
For two years my pay raise has been ZERO, yet the local police and fire dept has gotten over 4% EACH YEAR. They are now demanding another ~4%. The Chief of police just "retired" after working less than 10 years and started collecting over $100,000/year AND took another job making over $100,000. And he is young enough to retire from that one and do it again! Yet the city only thinks in terms of raising taxes.
The site is running funky today… Posts are very slow to appear and I'm unable to delete a repost. Looks like you're having problems too…
I'm from the Northeast, mostly New York state; I left it for many years but currently am stuck up here for a while. Not long ago, I happened to be talking with a retired state employee. He had retired at a fairly young age and had the means to go on bus trips and so forth, but now he was bored. And he was also complaining that his pension wasn't big enough. I just kept my mouth shut because, if I'd said anything, I'd have started in a long rant about: a) my belated realization that the overbureaucratization of New York state had driven much of the tax base out in the 70s and onward (I remember being told, at the time it was happening, that our state's emigration rate was due to energy prices, and back then it had never occurred to me that those prices were also affecting air conditioning expenses in the Sun Belt, so maybe it was just a lot people voting with their feet, since nobody at the party in Albany was listening–y'know, sort of like what's happening in Vermont now; and 2) that he should really be wondering about how long his current pension was going to last, given the oncoming crisis. I said nothing, because I was angry about it all. I wish I could get over the anger and just talk about this or at least try to get a conversation going, because these are the very people who are going to try to keep the current system going as long as they can instead of helping defuse the crisis. Their aid in this effort should definitely be enlisted before it all comes crashing down on everybody's head.
As a concerned citizen, and patriot I say we use their tactics against themselves that they have been using on City halls across this country for years. Take a sign, and put on that sign "No justice, No peace". Lets also chant this out load and proud, "No Truth No Peace". This should be a very interesting twist.
God Bless America
Most government jobs are little more than job placement for the mass undereducated class, socialist policy created. Most unions are corrupt and use workers dues and violence to enrich themselves. Most governments, at all levels, work to protect its own self interests and not the peoples. The defense of this system should be greeted with an iron fist.
La Guillotine shall claim her bloody prize.
Bastille Day in the USA will have a different name but an equal outcome.
Anon says…"Let them eat cake!" Well we know how that turned out. The money does run out Anon and then what? Well….
La Guillotine shall claim her bloody prize.
Citibank is up 27% since December… Does that qualify as flat?
If you want more examples, go get them yourself.
I did have a problem but I didn't catch that it duplicated. Thanks for the heads up!
I feel the same about the ignorance. It really does help the rest of us to know that we are not isolated. I see that a lot of people do as I do and look for the premises. You have already noticed his lack of reasoned discourse. Anon's comment is silly. The public employees do not look smart, they look like opportunists who are sucking money from me for perks which were given without merit. In other words, using private sector measure, they did not earn them, they negotiated them using a political club to get them.
The private sector had their stocks devalued by stupid govt policy, no matter how hard the Barney Franks and Dodds try to spin it. So out with part one. The second part–in general, working for the govt is soul-sucking work. You trade a sense of accomplishment and a chance to excel for security and political wrangling. The old saying "good enough for government work." Has a root in truth. These employees do not take less than their peers in the private sector, so the last part is not an acceptable premise.
Sigh. Now I have gone ahead and spent time dissecting ignorance for my own release valve. Now this capitalist has to go provide my product to consumers so I can get fun coupons for the down payment on our next home. And I want a scooter. Maybe Anon "should" buy me one.
Rescind ""EX ORDER 10988"" Worst order JFK signed!!
Thanks for the chuckle! You would have a FIT if you saw how the post office works. Two people get paid for doing the same job if one is disabled or sidelined for some other reason. My friend was sidelined. She could have worked, but couldn't get a waiver, so someone else was paid in addition to her full salary. It is very common in her shop to have someone sidelined with pay for some reason and someone else being paid to do the job. My details may not be exactly correct, but my point that if they were answerable to a profit margin, and ditched those greedy Unions, the USPS could possibly function properly, stands. Just like the rest of the country's businesses. Unions have become parasitic.
Stupid government workers sucking the wealth from me and the patriots of this country. Fire em all and get them digging ditches or something. Government work is just a collection of blacks and other lazy SOBs.
His stupidity? First, the article is about state employees and you come in here spouting off some figures about federal employees. Second, Rounding 1.6 up to 2, adding $40K, is an egergious exageration to say the least. You do realize that there are families here that don't even make that much don't you? Third, It mearly states that state and local employees have higher total compensation when the value of benifits is included. No where in that last sentance that you seem so happy top quote does it say that it's nearly 2x as much as private sector employees you dolt. how about you learn to do a little math and brush up on your critical thinking skills before you try to prove a point again M-kay?
Public employee pensions are largely paid out from pension funds. The problem with that is (a) Pensions fixed at level of salary when employee retires – irrespective of how well the pension fund does (b) Number of retirees growing past any forecast (c) Trend for local governments to underfund in order to use taxes for other ends and to avoid raising taxes (d) Usual government inefficiency and cronyism in managing the funds.
A 401K arrangements solve all of this. Amount of pension tied directly to value of the fund. Upon retirement, public contribution to 401K ends for each employee so it doesn't matter how many. Contributions to fund fixed and must be paid. Cannot underfund. Investments managed by private sector professional institutions. Employee and Govt. have choice in free market. Dump underperformers. Sue those that commit fraud. Subject to regulation.
"Who's retirement was stolen?"
The private sectors. Only through Obama's bold actions did you not lose everything.
Or are you unaware of the trillions taxpayers poured into saving your ass? Banks, AIG, Bear Stearns, etc, etc, etc.
"Welfare for me but not for thee" is exactly what you wingnut morons believe.
Too bad we cannot apply the same law to Goverments that go bankrupt. New Jersey is starting to withold aid and grants to towns and counties that have not yet converted to a 401K arrangement with employees. Simple.
By the way, when GM finally shuffles off its mortal coil, how much do you bet that all of the suddent the US Taxpayer will be put on the hook for UAW pensions?
No one would have a problem if they actually did something useful but most public sector jobs are make-work welfare for the criminally-inclined and intellectually deficient. The over-educated under-intelligent classes of our society have gravitated to government service due primarily to the fact that it places emphasis on policy over product. Rare is the public servant who dutifully goes about the people's business mindful of the awesome responsibility given him and actually does his job(meaning work)professionally. Fortunately, people like that don't survive and almost always end up in the private sector, where they do the most good in our society.
I also failed to point out that these pension plans don't even have to work, they can lose money (and they do) and the workers still get paid out of YOUR pockets, YOU have to mkae up the shortfall though your tax dollars!
You stupid private sector types! Unlike social security I put in no where near what I get paid out, now who are the stupid and lazy ones!
The US would be better off if we were all government employees, then we would all be making 100K for life!
God you people are sooooo stupid
That's the MOST rediculous and inconsistent response you're posted yet. LOL!!! Are you sure you're not a comedian?
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From a rising star in the Tea Party movement.
>> do you not think that most of the public workers earn for themselves a pension?
No I don't, they contribute, but their payouts are x10 or more compared to the pay in's, and unlike private plans they need not be solvent. If they have short falls the government simply taxes or runs a deficit.
Do you think ANYONE would care if this were a PRIVATE fund that did not dip into our pockets?
Think a bit before you post.
No, the trade off was ironclad job security, short hours, and never, ever having to produce results. Sinecures for the lazy and useless.
Same here. I actually sold off major positions in both '99 and '08 and got back in near the bottom. Buy low, sell high.
This has got to be a pseudo-anon counter-troll, right? I mean, not even anon could be THIS stupid.
So you think there's an economic perpetual motion machine?
Great job!
My 401k is up 7.3% so far this year and I haven't touched/tweaked anything yet. last year was close to 20%
I love the counter-trolls. The only reason the counter-troll comments come across even dumber than the regular troll is the counter-troll cuts out the BS and just states the real ignorance of the regular troll.
BTW, we are called the "Troll-Patrol."
of course it doesn't. The troll "anon" is only here to make noise and be obnoxious. All you need to understand, is that in liberal land, anon's assinine and utterly absurd remarks are actually considered "intelligent".
I say: "Compare the wages with private industry for the same job/work and then reduce the public pay by AT LEAST 20% and make the retirement purely up the employee, by offering him a matching savings plan. Nothing else. No future obligations to taxpayers, nothing. We're saddled with vast incompetence already, no point in paying huge money for it.
macnvettes, you make consistently excellent comments. Thanks for the input.
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