Obamacare: A Social Justice Nightmare for the Whole World
by Kyle-Anne ShiverAccording to AP reports, “Catholic nuns are urging Congress to pass President Barack Obama’s health care plan, in an unusual public break with bishops who say it would subsidize abortion.” Reportedly, 60 leaders of religious orders sent lawmakers a letter pleading with them to pass the Senate healthcare bill.

The AP clearly has not noticed the virtual ongoing war within the Catholic Church, especially with regards to government responsibility as opposed to private/church responsibility. In no sphere is this internal war more evident than when it comes to matters involving the Church’s Doctrine on Social Justice.
The Doctrines on Social Justice are, perhaps, the most misunderstood and lied-about facets of the Catholic faith. Just about everyone in public life, including even the majority of Catholics themselves, completely ignore the fundamentals of Social Justice teaching. They summarily conclude that Social Justice is a synonym for socialist redistributive policies, which seek to equalize material outcomes for all. I call this the Kumbayah Fallacy.
These nuns have fallen hook, line and sinker for the Kumbayah Fallacy. Right along with all the liberation theologians, who have shamefully wrapped Marxist doctrine around the cross of Christ for decades.
This mingling of socialism with Christianity makes a diabolical mockery of the Church’s genuine Social Doctrine, as delineated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. In fact, the Catholic Church explicitly rebukes all forms of “communism” and “socialism” right there in plain sight in the Catechism. While the Church also condemns completely unfettered capitalism, with no regulations whatsoever, She saves most condemnation for the Marxist doctrines, which attempt to regulate the economy “solely by centralized planners,” as this “perverts the basis of social bonds” between human beings.
While President Obama has made wide use of his claim to fighting for Social Justice, especially with his zeal towards a government takeover of our healthcare system, he has utterly ignored the natural – fully predictable – unintended consequences of his attempt to reorder the best medical delivery system the world has ever created.
In fact, this reordering of the American medical delivery system to suit the whims of socialist reformers, President Obama is ensuring a genuine Social Justice nightmare for the whole world.
In which Country do the new drugs, medical innovations and most advanced surgical techniques originate? Exactly. In the United States of America.
But the United States is not a selfish Nation. And every one of these medical “miracles,” the products of free enterprise, under the supervision of government oversight, makes its way quite quickly to the rest of the world. Socialist countries, unable to produce the cures themselves because they have choked innovation with their own “centralized planner” philosophies, then buy the new American drugs at highly discounted prices for their own citizens. In effect, the American medical system quite heavily subsidizes all the other medical systems of the world with its own ingenuity and enterprise. Our doctors routinely travel around the globe, sharing and teaching their techniques to other doctors in other countries. Our charities routinely offer free medical aid around the globe.
Of course, once Obamacare makes all these “miracle” cures unprofitable, those new innovations will dry up here just as surely as they have in all the other socialized medical systems in the world.
That, in itself, creates a wholly unnecessary Social Justice nightmare for which not only America, but the entire world will pay a hefty price in untold suffering and death.
In addition to drying up incentives for medical innovations, which aid the entire human population, Obamacare will immediately cut the numbers of practicing doctors by up to 45%. This Investors Business Daily polling data, taken last summer, was widely criticized by liberal advocacy groups, but then was vindicated by a figure of 29.2% doctors quitting in an insert of the New England Journal of Medicine. The fact that a sizeable proportion of medical doctors would quit “if patient loads increase while pay decreases,” should not be at all surprising, since this is precisely what has happened in every other country with socialized medical models. Decreasing the supply of doctors will unarguably strike a blow at Social Justice, which simply cannot be overstated. One can throw all the taxpayer money he wishes at a disease, but that won’t cure what ails real patients. Keeping people unnecessarily sick because of a doctor shortage is unconscionable in the realm of Social Justice doctrine.
Another huge piece of the Social Justice puzzle, which is mightily threatened by Obamacare, is the charity sector of American medicine.
There is not a single medical delivery entity in America today, which does not have a social worker charged with helping people pay for their medical costs. In every hospital in these United States, patients are helped in myriad ways to either work out extended payment plans for services or receive already-available taxpayer assistance or charity dollars to meet their obligations. American doctors do much pro-bono work, just as lawyers do. But studies invariably show that once government takes over the obligations of individuals, charity dries up, causing the government burden to be much greater than it was believed it would be at the outset of new programs. Under Obamacare, not only will taxpayers assume the burdens of more and more entitlements, but will now also assume the burdens being alleviated through generous charity today.
Killing opportunities for charity may fit perfectly with the Marxist-oriented Kumbayah Fallacy, but it proves a diabolical mockery of the doctrines on genuine Social Justice.
Then, of course, there is the abortion component of Obamacare. As prohibitions against taxpayer funds being funneled to abortion coverage are not included in the Senate bill, every American taxpayer will now be conscripted into the Democrats’ genocidal denial of Social Justice to pre-born Americans – with no provision for conscientious objector status. This one thing – this fundamental, primordial facet of Social Justice – is more than enough reason to reject Obamacare on its whole. As the Pope and all others before him have repeatedly proclaimed, the right to life, once conceived, is the fundamental right upon which all others rest. No one – not even a president – can claim to be fighting for Social Justice without first protecting this unalienable right.
It is a sad commentary on our times, when even Catholics of high standing do not know enough about their own faith to stand up for it in the public square. Supporting Obamacare, and the piece-by-piece destruction of the finest medical system ever created, is an affront to the doctrine of Social Justice. It will prove a nightmare, not only for Americans, but for the whole world.






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http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/aristotles...
Aristotle's Warning…In democracies the rich should be spared. Not only should their estates be safe from the threat of redistribution: the produce of the estates should be equally secure; and the practice of sharing it out, which has insensibly developed under some constitutions, should not be allowed.
Targeting the rich and meritorious divides society and threatens to uproot the very people who place a drag on democracy's excessive egalitarian energy:
Demagogues are always dividing the city into two, and waging war against the rich. Their proper policy is the very reverse: they should always profess to be speaking in defense of the rich.
Some people just want to see the world burn: Barack Obama.
Great post. Well said!
People get the government they deserve. Enjoy your fruits idiocracy.
Obama's Malignant Narcissism…http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/obamas_mal...
Don’t sweat it! Barry and his minions were drowning in failure, and as opposed to throwing a life preserver to the democrat party, by passing deathcare (by the way took a year and two months with super majorities, right on America) they are throwing our Socialist a cinderblock, sinking their insanity to the depths of political hell. Now fully exposed…sick’em America, and maybe we can get rid of ‘60s radicalism once and for all!
It's not rocket science to see throught the mind-set of a "do-gooder".
Lord, save us from those with such low self-esteem!
i know a few doctors and think the threat of 30% of them quitting is unrealistic. the older ones may well decide to retire earlier but the younger ones don't have as many options. what else are they going to do for anything close to what they're earning now? they're simply not going to forego the sports cars, the nice houses, etc.
however, what i predict will happen is more and more docs will limit their practices in some way. stop accepting new patients, shift into more lucrative specialties, start working part of the year in offshore boutique clinics, consulting, etc. increased demand vs. decreased availability. overall, medical care will suffer. medicine is not immune to the laws of economics.
I'm hoping against hope that some of the predicted "yes" votes for this Frankenbill examined their consciences last night and decided to stand for principle rather than to cave into craven party politics.
Were JFK alive today, he would find in such people ample material for more chapters in "Profiles in Courage."
Let's pray there are a few who would rather do the right thing than do the easy thing.
Obama's sense of "social justice" stems straight from the urban dictate of welfare recipients. Clearly he feels that WHITE AMERICA (which includes many educated and successful blacks) allocated resources (read stole) from their efforts. Nothing could be further from actual truth. Many blacks have gladly accepted welfare and entitlements (LBJ's Great Society) versus working for their share of the AMERICAN PIE as most Americans have. This welfare mentality has resulted in the total destruction of their culture from fatherless homes to unbridled reproduction of children with no means or thoughts as to their support. Obama has it BACKWARDS !
The reverse should be employed. We need to stop making it easy to be a welfare loser. It should be PAINFUL to be on welfare so one strives to get OFF OF WELFARE ! Welfare recipients should be made to PAY BACK the American taxpayer….not continue with generation after generation of cultural welfare denigration. As a nation we have a responsibility to scale this back and provide the opportunity for all people to succeed. You do that with the eventual elimination of welfare and the cultures will then blend as a productive PART OF AMERICA !
Obviously "We the People" should be more than a little chagrined tha a stealth, ultra liberal, "progressive" Democrat who accomplished NOTHING during his 24 minutes as a United States Senator, who tacitly embrassed Black Liberation Theology, voted "present" during his entire elected political career is reordering OUR economy and reshaping OUR healthcare delivery system AGAINST the stated will of a constant majority of the voting population.
It's disturbing and alaming and MUST NOT STAND.
Bottom line:
There are Christians out there, like these nuns, who want to dump their Christian obligations to their fellow human beings, onto the government.
The government can not force me to buy anything. Live free or die.
This is the sort of moral erosion that comes from demonizing such groups as the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts for adhering to a moral code that refuses to cave into secular humanism and moral relativity.
There is nothing but fine moral principle in their creeds; they prepare youngsters for self-sufficient lives as productive citizens, and eschew tendencies towards entitlement.
There is a good reason why so many churches are the sponsoring organizations for Scout troops. They reinforce each others' struggle to produce honest and hard-working citizens.
Nuns are women like lesbians, are basically losers in life with such low self-esteem that they refuse to compete with other women.
So they use excuses, either religion and/or lesbianism to avoid themselves, looking directly into their own personal emotional problem.
“bishops who say it would subsidize abortion”
Since the bill clearly doesn’t subsidize abortion that would make the bishops liars. And that’s one of the top ten sins. Openly. In public. For the whole world to see. I wonder what Jesus thinks about that.
And this from the same group that covers for for priests raping children.
Stay classy, Catholic Church.
This is an issue of power v. morality. The progressives want the power with morality be damned.
Obama says too much of our paychecks are going to insurance companies, I say too much of my paycheck is going to the govt.
We sheepdogs can only protect the sheep if they cower away from the wolves, not walk into their jaws.
Yes, Obama and the democrats are merely their "enablers".
Forces of nature.
We give so little credit to sleeping volcanoes, politically and physically. Perhaps spiritually, as well?
your wrong………..it does subsidize abortion
I won't comment on the Catholic Church, I'll leave that to her parishioners, however will comment the
author is most observant.
"Obamacare dries up incentives for medical innovation", in effect killing the goose that lays the golden
eggs for the whole world to share. How many lives does this goose have?
It's very simple – good, moral actions always bring good, moral results and bad, immoral actions always bring bad, immoral results. That's why socialism is doomed to failure. Socialism is based on a bad, immoral action. That is, theft – forcibly taking from one person to give to another. When any system is based on a bad, immoral action the results of its actions will always be bad and immoral. And, it doesn't make any difference if the intention is good. If the action taken is based on a bad, immoral action the results will still be bad. That's why all the good sounding social welfare programs always end up not working and being harmful to the people they are intended to help. If the people will learn this one moral rule then socialism will be stopped in its tracks.
[...] » Obamacare: A Social Justice Nightmare for the Whole World – Big … [...]
Social justice is penalizing robbers who steal from those who earn their money and goods. Obama Care is the opposite of that.
Read the link, do narcissist commit suicide??
We can only hope!!!!
Well if Obama has his way, the doctors will be making about as much money as a barista at starbucks.
I am completely offended by the poster of Obama thinking he even comes close to Jesus Christ! He is the most immoral President we have ever had and he will NOT last 3 more years in office…he will be run out!!!
A recent encyclical supports the thesis of this article entirely. The Pope came out against long term economic dependency as destructive to the spirit. I grew up in an Irish Catholic blue collar neighborhood in Chicago, K-college Catholic educated. In college I saw these nuns who fancied themselves to be modern day Dorothy Days. Day widely distributed this defective definition of Catholic Social Justice. Their dangerous mis-interpretation not only threatens the unborn, but now our freedom is on the line.
This has morphed into the Kathleen Townsend Kennedy style of Catholicism. Have you seen that horrendous, badly written manifesto masquerading as a book she put out last year? If you can stomach the awful writing you will see the drivel these nuns are pushing on its pages. Kennedy and these nuns don't so much strike me as pro-choice – as the message in this book is more hardcore pro-abort.
A true understanding of the faith leads one to the concept of humility and these nuns are too enthralled with themselves to get that…
Great article.
Only Econ101 morons (nuns) and true believer Dims (proglodites) find this ObamaCare a creditable idea….
You'd think a quick look at Medicare would convince them of the unworkability of govt'mrnt run anything..
That convinced me long ago that this whole drawn out gambit is not about HealthCare at all, but about control of everything and everybody……
Much to the delight of certain sectors of the Catholic Church
well-done. i have linked this article in my blog today. in my anger i can't seem to form thoughts without a cussing tirade escaping my fingers. shockingly, some folks don't like salty words…
What if half the child was part of you?
Religion in general and churches in particular are a diabolical mockery of true morality.
Why any congressperson would listen to a plea from any religious body is beyond me.
It's against natural law and the most elementary moral principles to kill babies. Who needs a man in a dress to tell us that?
There are two fundamental issues with the GOP and/or conservatism that i find myself at odds with and for the most part it's…. religion and abortion. As a man, i cannot place myself in a position where i would have a say with respect to a Woman's right to reproduce. Abortion is the Womans' choice and hers alone, (c'mon people, it's freedom of choice, is it not?). If her religion gets into the mix then it's between her, her conscious and her faith….i have no dog in the fight, per se, nor should i.
The other IS religion. i am not wont to be lectured on how to live a righteous life by someone from the pulpit. i also realize that the GoodBook has been a bestseller since Gutenberg put ink to paper but, i view it as a fantastically great story, (guess i shouldn't compare it to the Hobbit or Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings, eh?). And i am keenly aware that Christian values are deep rooted in this Country and overall is a good thing. i see too much hypocrisy and mayhem in the name of religion to the point of being hypocritical to sit in a pew. DeadKennedy claimed to be a Roman Catholic, AminjeNutJob is religious, The Revs. Sharpton, Wright, Jackson, Pfleger…anyways. i'll manage to be a good citizen and fair-minded thinker without religion…thank you very much.
i am grateful this Country was founded with Judeo-Christian values….far better than the alternative!
I'm sure they do.. Hitler did. It's all a matter of ego to them. They refuse to lose, so they take the cowards way out.
Nuns who should be serving God only serving thier inflated egos and inflated sense of purpose. When standing up for abortion these un-nuns should be asking one question. Would God be smiling upon them as they took this stance?
SH
I'm beginning to lean your way here.
If it DOES NOT PASS, then in the future, they will do this again and again.
Lets kill it now, fix the problems in the HC system the right way and stop this madness,
While there are some bishops that get it ie Bishop Dolan in New York, the vast majority are of the "social justce" persuasion. Kyle-Anne nails it with the donations. Obama would like all charity funded by the government. As Christ said "Why do you notice the sliver in the others eye and ignore the log in your own?". Because the bishops have punted their obligations to the poor to the government they shall reap what they sow. I have plans to become more proactive at the diocese level to get them to see the log in our own eyes.
Nikita Kruschev is turning over in his grave right about now and laughing. (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/n/nikit...
If this socialist bill gets into play with America, anyone who does not buy government mandated healthcare coverage will be fined $2250.00. Except for the poor. By the way, who is the poor in 2 years, 5 yrs or 20 years?
The I.R.S. will hire 17,000 more employees (more big government) to run this healthcare. The IRS will change their name to the New KGB of The United Socialist States of America.
All confidential medical information of each comrade that the KGB has on file, including all illegal aliens who are to become USS of America citizens, will be shared with the HHS so Vladimur Obama has access to your hemmorroid problem.
Basically, big government owns you from birth to death now. Everyone enjoy your new lives that have been “transformed”. Your new "National ID card will be mailed to you.
"It's the END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT,… and I feel fine,…" REM
"SHOOT ME NOW!! …..SHOOT ME NOW!!…" Daffy Duck
I think I know where this is coming from. The nuns own the hospitals. Obviously the bill helps out the hospitals. Note that they have been very silent in all this. Nuns will do anything to make money on their investiments. I attended a high level meeting involving the Sisters of Charity and found out that they have more money than Bill Gates. This is all related to their hospital activity.
No it does not. You lie.
Or just show me the part of the bill that provides the subsidies. Liar.
Well, X, again it's definitely going to be debated. can't speculate on a hypothetical, i suppose. If a family unit can't be the result then the next question would logically be, "What's better for the greater good?"
is this a cop-out in your estimation?
The bill pays for abortion. Subsidy courtesy of the taxpayer.
[...] » Obamacare: A Social Justice Nightmare for the Whole World – Big Government [...]
"The bill pays for abortion. Subsidy courtesy of the taxpayer."
No it does not. You lie.
Personally, this is where I think you are wrong on abortion. At some point before birth, there is a child, another human being in the mother's womb. Children born as early as 21 weeks have a shot at surviving with medical support. If a child born that tragically early can survive outside of mom, is there any fundamental difference between that child and the one still inside its mother? They are at the same delopmental stage. At conception, the embryo has distinct DNA from its mother and verifyably human DNA at that. Is it right to equate that with a mere tumor? My unborn child is only about 12 weeks along, and it already has a steady, strong, distinct heartbeat. I can't exactly say it's not alive.
As far as women's reproductive choice is concerned, I agree, but I think the moment of choice for any woman should be the choice to have sex in the first place. No matter what steps you take short of complete removal of the reporductive organs, there is a chance you could get pregnant. If you aren't prepared to accept the possibility of pregnancy, you shouldn't be spreading your legs.
I do agree that abortion is sometimes necessary for medical reasons, and I also think it should be allowed in circumstances of rape and incest because the mother's right to choose sex was taken from her. But as a matter of sheer convenience, abortion is a clear abomination and the murder of another human being on the simple whim of one person.
your lawyer friend is WRONG! ObamaCare is an attack against everything guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.
Read A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. v United States 295 US 495 (1935), and Linder vs. United States 268 U.S. 5 (1925).
Did you know that in this current Senate bill, the Amish and Christian Scientists won’t be required to purchase health insurance because it violates their religious convictions?
Will religious Jews be forced to pay for medical care on the Jewish Sabbath, on which they’re not allowed to receive medical care?
Will Obama Care pay for religious circumcision for Jewish families?
WE The People have standing on our Free of Religion 1st Amendment Right and there will be 1000's of law suits filed. As the ruling in Linder vs United States says: "direct control of medical practice in the States is beyond the power of the federal government."
IF Obama can destroy one part of the Constitution, he can destroy any part of it.
As far as women's reproductive choice is concerned, I agree, but I think the moment of choice for any woman should be the choice to have sex in the first place. No matter what steps you take short of complete removal of the reporductive organs, there is a chance you could get pregnant. If you aren't prepared to accept the possibility of pregnancy, you shouldn't be spreading your legs.
I do agree that abortion is sometimes necessary for medical reasons, and I also think it should be allowed in circumstances of rape and incest because the mother's right to choose sex was taken from her. But as a matter of sheer convenience, abortion is a clear abomination and the murder of another human being on the simple whim of one person.
If the bill does not specifically prohibit a procedure, then it is assumed to be covered. This has been explained by Democrats like Stupak among others.
Regarding abortion: When does human life begin?
Regarding religion: You rightly identify our country's founding in Judeo-Christian values, but I find it ironic that you express thanks for this fact, while being condemning of the very faiths which gave rise to these values. Citing examples of "Christian" hypocrites and Islamofascists is, in the former case, a reflection of that individual alone, and, in the later case, has little to do with Judaism or Christianity. But this juxtaposition of Amademajad with the likes of Sharpton, Wright, and Teddy speaks to, I think, a lazily homogenized attitude toward religion as a whole. Just because certain individuals, or in the case of Islam, a political ideology with a veneer of faith, lack merit, does not mean they all do.
Yes, there have been those who have killed in the name of religion. The body count for those killed in the name of g-dlessness, however, is much greater.
Social Justice is a fool's errand. There is absolutely no way that any agency of man can ensure equal outcomes for all through force. This bill will only make things far more miserable for everyone without really helping anyone.
I suppose we can all start hoping for the complete, economic collapse of the government. It may be the only way to dismantle the social welfare state.
Kick rocks you TOOL
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. "- Winston Churchill This is where we are headed. The bankrupt dysfunctional wrecks of American cities and states governed by decades of "progressive" rule are clear for all to see. What they've done to Detroit, Chicago, and California they will do to rest of the nation in their pursuit of "social justice". Welcome to a world where everything belongs to "the people" yet they own nothing.
I am aware of the Shechter case. My lawyer friend isnt a regular old run of the mill attorney. He argues cases before the highest court in the land. I have a question in to Judge Andrew Napalitano right now, hopefully he will have an answer for me. I still think this bill does not pass. But if it does, I am sure it will be rife with legal challenges
Then why has Pee-lousy been so busy trying to get the Stupak Dozen to change their votes from "no" to "yes?" Guess that makes you… a LIAR.
And this from a poster whose Regressive political heroes favor teaching schoolchildren the NAMBLA way of life.
BTW: Nice double post. Begone, regressive.
Oh, aharris, listen honey, (i'm assuming you to be female, grin). My post isn't directed at the debate on when is "Life a Life", (coincidentally, You don't have to convince me on when life begins, i happen to believe conception is the jump-off point). The bigger point is whether or not, me, as a man, should have regulatory input on a Woman's body, and in fact, You guys have CongressMEN deeming what's best. i as a person happen to value life but, i won't pretend to know how a Woman should decide.
Ms. Shiver………..this is an excellent article and your position is so well stated. It is clear and concise and very well outlines some of the most hideous consequences of this yet another social experiment at the expense of the taxpaying public and unfortunately the world at large.
It cuts to the chase of this horrific plan to destroy the most successful and benevolent system of medical care ever developed in the history of mankind.
It is hard to imagine that We the People are going to see this boondoggle become the law of the land over the screams of the citizenry. We can only keep up the good fight and try in future months to undo the untruths that have been spread in support of this legislation. To listen to the Democratic proponents of Obamacare is to leave the world of reality and escape to the Utopian world of the liberal mind and to Alice in Wonderland where these politicians live.
Again, thanks for your article it was wonderful reading and so thoughtfully presented. It is a shame that this type of reasoned and objective discourse isn't required reading for the MSM and those in our society that truly don't understand the realities of how things work in the "real world", but only live in their isolated sphere of Kumbaya Land.
Well, this isn't dead yet.
Seems that the vote is going to be very close (maybe a 1-vote margin) and so many of them don't want to be a deciding vote on legislation that would end their careers.
I just want to know what happens when faith based hospitals don't tow the line on providing "reproductive services". Is the gov't going to force their policy. That sounds like "tipping point".
touche, on the broad-brush painting,(i seemed to have gone outside the lines a bit). My homogenizing of the religions could be on target if you consider that most recognized religions are based in good, non-violent tenets but, ever increasing bastardizing of religions to suit specific agendas don't really seem truthful, does it? As for the hypocrisy, correct me, (once again), if i'm wrong but, aren't those a group of nuns advocating ObamaCare knowing it'll fund abortions? i'll never be for Social Justice and i'll never understand why we can't truly have separation of church and state.
She is a disgrace to herself and her constituents. The Church's unwillingness or inability to push them out from under the protection of the Church is a disgrace to the Church.
Ms. Shiver, THANK YOU for stating the Catholic Doctrines on Social Justice !!!
In the New Testament, Christ doesn't tell us that the Roman government will take care of the poor, sick, the widows and orphans! Christ tells us – each of us, in HIS name, shall feed and clothe the poor !
this wonderful article!
If you ascribe to the idea that there are ways to live goodly and badly then religion is no big deal. Preachers tells you how you should live your life. Politicians tell you how you have to live your life.
Religion is a concept of free will. You choose to believe and follow that path. The politics we are concerned with does not coexist well with the concept of freedom.
You can support abortion by making a donation to planned parenthood. Using my taxes to pay for abortions crosses the line. Liberals can justify that moral dilemma themselves with their own checkbook, not mine. I choose no.
It is laughable to think that a govt agency will be a good moral steward when counseling individuals on whether to get an abortion or not. Once the funds are there the abuse will be epic.
you are absolutely right.
My homogenizing of the religions could be on target if you consider that most recognized religions are based in good…
I don't except that. There are religions which are not "basically good."
…ever increasing bastardizing of religions to suit specific agendas don't really seem truthful, does it?
Again, you are citing examples of individuals who may, or may not, be correctly applying their faith to a particular matter. The aforementioned examples of Jackson, Sharpton, and Wright illustrate your case of how a faith tradition may be twisted, but this is a reflection of these individuals, not the faith itself. Wright's hateful rantings do not change the beliefs of all Christians, for example.
As for the hypocrisy, correct me, (once again), if i'm wrong but, aren't those a group of nuns advocating ObamaCare knowing it'll fund abortions?
I can't speak for the nuns, and I don't know what they think they know.
[I]'ll never be for Social Justice…
On this, we can agree.
[I]'ll never understand why we can't truly have separation of church and state.
Who says we can't? I think the real question is, should we. Since the phrase "separation of church and state," nor any paraphrasing of the same sentiment appears in our founding documents, I think we can fairly guess what the Founding Fathers opinion on the matter was.
Regarding abortion: When does human life begin?
It's strange that the basic fundamentals of economics are never brought up by the anti-takeover side. If the cost of something keeps going up, the answer to lowering cost is to increase supply. No one ever seems to say that, or to point out that increased beuaracracy and its cost in regulation and red tape will only drive up costs.
This is one reason why no-one should call this Health Care reform. This is an attempt by Democrats to redirectd the 2 1/2 trillion dollars in Health Insurance premiums (that protect 75% of the insured) into the general fund of the US treasury, where it can be exchanged for treasury bills and spent on anything they choose.
According to legal authorities "There are decades of federal appellate rulings that apply the principles of Roe v. Wade to federal health legislation. According to these rulings, such health legislation creates a statutory requirement for abortion funding, unless Congress clearly forbids such funding. That is why the Hyde amendment was needed in 1976, to stop Medicaid from funding 300,000 abortions a year. The statutory mandate construed by the courts would override any executive order or regulation. Absent specific language from Congress, court precedent will mandate abortion coverage."
So Anon, maybe instead of throwing around libelous accusations, you should actually find out what your talking about before opening your pie hole.
Its amazing to me that someone in the Catholic church thinks its right that the govt. forces you to give up your money to them, so the govt. can give it to whom they wish under the guise of "charity", versus a person of his own free will contributing his money to a charity of his choice. Amazing in light that God led hgis People out of bondage so that they could be free. If a man is forced to be charitable, hes not even deemed charitable, he had no choice he was simply forced in the matter.
A mandate requiring all individuals to purchase health insurance would be an unprecedented form of federal action. The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States. An individual mandate would have two features that, in combination, would make it unique. First, it would impose a duty on individuals as members of society. Second, it would require people to purchase a specific service that would be heavily regulated by the federal government.”
-CBO (1994)
All right, ADub, i did say MOST religions are good, i certainly don't think you're trying to say otherwise. As for the miscreants who take advantage of religion, maybe it's something i pick up on more than usual. Look, the general flow of this country is center-right, i get that, i also get that our founding values are inherently GOOD. i just don't choose to be a 'member' at this time, what's the big deal?
Conception, but that's my opinion. The Woman who has to have this "Life" may have a different perception, again, not up to me to give her a conscious.
The Heirarchy of the US Catholic Orders come up through a system that rewards them with expensive educations at elite universities. These people come from the millieu as the leftist elites of the Democratic party. LIttle surprise that they also are avowed leftists engaged in their group-think.
Many have been so "brain-washed" into thinking that government "knows best" and is the ONLY one to help the needy … some of us have lost sight of the fact that we ARE called to help our brother … but that was directed to individuals … not the government! More importantly, look at all the billions in bureacracy that is being created … and government workers continue to earn significantly MORE than the private sector … what is wrong with this picture?
They are twisting "compassion" to suit their needs to expand government at all costs … shame on these nuns for playing into their hand!
You mean Michael Moore was lying about the cuban meidcal system being so good? I am so shocked!
Lor
We're kind of hoping for passage tonite….When they govern against the will of the people to this extent, thru this devious process, they are essentially committing political on a grand scale…
We're really likin' it…
The next article by Mike Flynn is incredible also…Just as this Kyle-Ann Shiver masterpiece is…
Social Justice is a clever euphemism that is itself oxymoronic. Everyone knows that Lady Justice is blind for a reason. The winner has both the facts and the law on their side and the arbiter knows not the contestants. Social Justice perverts the very idea of justice because it renders judgment explicitly on the identity of the contestants.
Justice and Social Justice are mutually exclusive concepts. To embrace Social Justice as a centerpiece of governance is to throw Lady Justice under the bus.
Actually, the Catholics believe that a starving man who steals bread for his family has committed no sin.
Once again, (i voted for your comment, btw). i wasn't trying to over-think all of this but, that analysis is something i can agree with.
Lib666
This is make or break time for the Church…
They seem to be going the way of the Dims…ByeBye…
What would Jesus say, indeed
One thing Jesus did say that has stuck with me…is that when someone in need comes a-knockin for food, clothing or whatever, a poor man has nothing to offer, but a rich man can help.
Who is "ADub?"
You seem to be responding to something I did not write. I never said you should be a member of some church. You are obviously free to do so or not do so as you see fit. I was pointing out that the words, and even the very concept, of the "separation of church and state" is alien to our nations founding. The Constitution prohibit the federal establishment of religion. It also prohibits inhibitions on its free exercise. Consequently, it is illegal for government to prohibit a congressman from calling upon his religious beliefs when voting on legislation or proposing bills.
So, if I understand correctly your response to my abortion question, you believe that reality is subjective, and that an unborn child is not a human being if its mother says its not a human being. Yes?
RightSide, I agree with your post. I am a white male and my wife is hispanic (second generation born in the U.S.). Went to elementary school with an enrollment of 90% black. My mother was a single parent making $100.00 per week – raising 4 children. Most of the kids that I went school with had the latest clothes (and "track shoes") with their parent(s) being on welfare – to include free lunches, food stamps, etc…. I wore my older brothers hand me downs. This was in the mid to late 60's in Elkhart, Indiana. Back then my mother was too proud to take handouts and I learned to like sugar and/or syrup sandwiches. And learned many valuable lessons.
Fast forward – I am a veteran, not college educated and a business owner. I feel no guilt for any successes in my life. But by God I – earned everything that I have and will not apologize for it. However, I will need to apologize to the next person that I lay off! I am afraid that the welfare mentality has been so engrained, we will never make any headway in eliminating it.
LIB666
Precisely why a vibrant private sector shoud be everyone's goal…
I suppose one has no choice but to accept your bitter take on nuns there US MOM.
There was a time when being a nun was none of those things that you point out,……I just hope that,…….
this animosity toward the women that call themselves 'nuns' today will not erase,….the awareness of,….
the second most important roll for a woman which is the call to serve only God (the first of course being motherhood).
Well said. With the presence of justice for every individual, the myth of social justice is redundant. With the absence of justice for every individual, the myth of social justice is just an excuse to transfer chains from one group of people, to another.
RUN on RECALL – TOTAL RECALL !!!!
Shoulda been RDub…sorry, grin. Now that we have the separation issue outta the way, (i think we both are attuned to freedom of and from religion). I DO believe that the unborn are human, what you're asking me is to disregard the opinion of another person if they, (the Woman), feel differently.
it's a stretch to debate this in a hypothetical. If it were a reality for me personally, then, i can guarantee there will be a debate on it. The mere fact that i am not overly spiritual does not disqualify me from protecting the unborn. However, if a Woman, who believes in her faith, irrespective of what that is, will ultimately make the right decision.
"I won't comment on the Catholic Church, I'll leave….."
You are a very amiable person there cornpone
No, I don't believe in freedom from religion. It is that sort of thinking that leads to bans on public expressions of faith in schools and the like.
The mere fact that i am not overly spiritual does not disqualify me from protecting the unborn.
Please quote were I stated, or even implied, your lack of spirituality disqualifies you. I asked a simple question, devoid of religious or spiritual content, which you chose to evade:
Do you believe reality is subjective, or not.
It's really a very simple question.
what do we know about the executive order that obama has signed to buy off Stupak?
http://firedoglake.com/2010/03/21/stupak-agrees-t...
Bart Stupak has agreed to language in an executive order that would satisfy his block.
Details of what the order will contain are not known.
Beautifully and accurately said, I wish I could have given you more than one thumbs-up.
To all of the mindless and entitled who voted for Obama: May last night be the last night you slept without nightmares.
Hmmmm…a sense of hostility in the air. Is reality subjective? As in lacking reality? It's subjective a an individual through their own life experiences. But, you prolly have a a more sinister theory you'd like to pin on me so, let's have it RDub. Maybe that's why the religion thing has me in knots…..is that objective or subjective?
It does too you moron, why do you think Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) and his group of pro-life Dems have been withholding their vote in favor of the Bill? They wanted the tax payer money paying for abortions stricken from the Bill in order to give their support. But now that Queen Pelosi believes she has gotten the votes she needs to pass the Bill without the pro-life Dems she told them she would no longer continue to seek to strike/amend the abortion payment language in the Bill because now she feels she doesn't need them or their votes. Get a clue idiot, you welfare leftist may think this is a great thing, but your freedom is being taken from you and future generations if this socialist train cannot be stopped somewhere along the line.
For any of you or your relatives who currently enjoy Medicare, Medicaid, or Health Insurance through your government jobs, please remove yourselves and your relatives from these Socialist programs. I want my tax dollars to pay only for those who are unselfish and intend participate in a Socially Just society. How interesting you find SO many ways and word games to distance yourselves from your selfish natures.
I was starting to regret my use of the word "evade," thinking it was too harsh. Now I see it was not, but a fair characterization
Since you are clearly reluctant to answer the question, I encourage you to contemplate why.
I will gladly reciprocate with a direct answer to your question.
Rabid devotees of abortion have always targeted ant healthcare facility that does not provide abortion services and /or counseling in favor of it. This is a battle that will last as long as abortion is the law of the land.
I am a volunteer at an organization that does not give abortion informantion nor accepts government funding. I am sure, if this healthcare mess passes and stands, this organization will become a target of abortion supporters.
The Zero is a legend in his own mind!!
This Catholic is saddened by the antics of some Catholics, and comforted only by the fact that what an individual does is between that person and God. Bear in mind that with God, there are NO excuses.
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