Judges, Guns and Money: Part II
by Josie WalesSend lawyers, guns and money…the sh%$ has hit the fan!
Seriously! Justice Thomas opened a whole new chapter in constitutional jurisprudence with his concurring opinion regarding the 14th Amendment’s “privileges and immunities” clause.

Part II deals with Justice Thomas’ concurring opinion in McDonald v. Chicago. Part I dealt with the plurality decision written by Justice Alito, and the dissenting opinion of Justice Breyer, and is relevant to a discussion on the doctrine of incorporation. Part III will address Justice Scalia’s concurrence directed at Justice Stevens’ dissent.
Let me preface this article by saying Justice Thomas is my favorite Supreme Court Justice. Progressives often ridicule him for being “silent,” but why should he bother asking attorneys questions when their arguments focus on SCOTUS swing-vote, Justice Kennedy. His textual approach to interpreting the Constitution makes the most sense. While originalism and textualism both seek the original meaning of a statute or provision of the Constitution, originalism seeks the intent of the authors, where textualism focuses on the contemporary meaning of the text. Primary sources on the intent of authors leads to a cogent argument, but primary sources on the meanings of words promotes a sound argument (and if you never learned logic then you have some studying to do; progressive arguments are rife with fallacies).
Thomas jumps into an attack on the doctrine of incorporation (applying “fundamental” rights to the states) fairly early:
All of this is a legal fiction. The notion that a constitutional provision that guarantees only “process” before a person is deprived of life, liberty, or property could define the substance of those rights strains credulity for even the most casual user of words. Moreover, this fiction is a particularly dangerous one. The one theme that links the Court’s substantive due process precedents together is their lack of a guiding principle to distinguish “fundamental” rights that warrant protection from nonfundamental rights that do not. Today’s decision illustrates the point. Replaying a debate that has endured from the inception of the Court’s substantive due process jurisprudence, the dissents laud the “flexibility” in this Court’s substantive due process doctrine, while the plurality makes yet another effort to impose principled restraints on its exercise. But neither side argues that the meaning they attribute to the Due Process Clause was consistent with public understanding at the time of its ratification.
An important aspect of Thomas’ rejection of the doctrine of incorporation hearkens back to law school. We were taught that there were two kinds of due process: substantive (the substance of the right) and procedural (the process of protecting the right). Thomas appears to outright reject the idea of substantive due process, and this is the legal fiction to which he refers. “Due process” means the process by which we protect a right, but cannot define the right, let alone what may be a “fundamental” right. Thomas accordingly points out that the entire of history of incorporation is flawed because there is no limit to what one could consider a “fundamental” right (privacy, health care, education, etc.), under substantive due process, other than the restraint of SCOTUS. And Thomas is right to sound the alarm. Should the conservative wing of the court be broken up there is no end to what progressive justices could consider “fundamental.” Sure, the 2nd Amendment has been incorporated as a “fundamental” right today, but at what cost? Well, Thomas lays out an opinion that was unchallenged by any other member of SCOTUS, and as such, opens the door for clarity on the issue of rights and the Constitution.
Much of the second part of his opinion deals with the terms “rights,” “freedoms,” “privileges” and “immunities.” Under a textual approach to the Constitution, we must examine the meanings of these words at the time the 14th Amendment was ratified. Thomas examines the use of these words through contemporary documents and legislative history preceding the 14th Amendment, and interpretations immediately following passage of the 14th Amendment. To make a long story short, Thomas finds that these terms were used interchangeably to mean the same thing by the time the 14th Amendment was ratified. I do not believe “privileges” were the same as “rights” as drafted in the Constitution. “Rights” are inalienable, whereas “privileges” may be limited (see Article I, § 9, cl. 2). However, Thomas’ textual approach does not need to reach back to the Constitution as originally drafted. “Privileges,” for purposes of the 14th Amendment, only needs to be understood at the time that it was used, which means Thomas’ interpretation is valid.
After he parses out the meaning of “privileges,” Thomas examines some of the history surrounding violations of the 2nd Amendment privilege towards former slaves in the South. Much like the history of campaign finance reform, gun control started as a means to disenfranchise blacks.
As the Court explains, this fear led to “systematic efforts” in the “old Confederacy” to disarm the more than 180,000 freedmen who had served in the Union Army, as well as other free blacks. Some States formally prohibited blacks from possessing firearms. Others enacted legislation prohibiting blacks from carrying firearms without a license, a restriction not imposed on whites. Additionally, “[t]hroughout the South, armed parties, often consisting of ex-Confederate soldiers serving in the state militias, forcibly took firearms from newly freed slaves.”
Finally, Thomas comes to a discussion of the Slaughterhouse Cases in the last part of his opinion. The case had little to do with rights such as those in the Bill of Rights. Butchers argued that a state law infringed upon their right to practice their trade. The result of the case was a fairly narrow interpretation of the 14th Amendment’s “privileges and immunities” clause. Thomas points out that the right at issue was an un-enumerated one, which means the “privileges and immunities” clause should not preclude an inclusion of the enumerated rights in the Constitution, or rather the discernible rights within the Constitution. The decision in the Slaughterhouse Cases led to the tragic decision in Cruikshank, which determined that states could be the only protectors of the 2nd Amendment.
Cruikshank ’s holding that blacks could look only to state governments for protection of their right to keep and bear arms enabled private forces, often with the assistance of local governments, to subjugate the newly freed slaves and their descendants through a wave of private violence designed to drive blacks from the voting booth and force them into peonage, an effective return to slavery. Without federal enforcement of the inalienable right to keep and bear arms, these militias and mobs were tragically successful in waging a campaign of terror against the very people the Fourteenth Amendment had just made citizens.
Keep in mind that this is a decision the liberal wing of SCOTUS would uphold; not surprising when we understand the history of the political party that nominated those justices (while Stevens was technically a Ford appointee, his philosophy is not far from what Kagan will represent).
The meat of Thomas’ opinion is a rejection of the doctrine of incorporation, and the danger of this doctrine in progressive hands. I constantly tout the 9th Amendment as proof that our rights belong to us, and did not come from a document or the government. And SCOTUS is as much a part of the government as the political branches. The danger in SCOTUS identifying rights as “fundamental” is that in the wrong hands the doctrine of incorporation can pervert our concept of liberty. This idea came up in the Kagan hearings. Senator Coburn asked Kagan what her stance was on natural rights. She avoided this discussion by declaring she would follow the Constitution. The problem is that those “natural rights” are the ones identified in the 9th Amendment. At the time of ratification, some were worried about the scope of powers granted to the national government. The Bill of Rights were adopted to quell those fears, and the 9th Amendment seems to encompass those “natural rights” contained in the Declaration of Independence – life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
We can sum up the McDonald controversy, according to Thomas, in this manner: the purpose of the 2nd Amendment was to provide for the “privilege” of firearm ownership to defend the “natural right” to life/liberty, identified in the Declaration, from tyranny. The 9th Amendment makes sure that the “natural right” to life/liberty was not narrowed by the 2nd Amendment “privilege” to defend that right. The 14th Amendment recognized the 2nd Amendment “privilege” to protect citizens from the tyranny of state governments. And thus, the “privilege” of firearm ownership became the supreme law of the land.
Thomas compacted over 100 years of constitutional jurisprudence over a legal fiction into a single provision of the Constitution. Let me be the first to say, “Thank you, Justice Thomas.”






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373 Comments
But Harry Reid said he was an embarassment to the court… and Harry wouldn't lie to us, would he?
Sometimes I think that all laws should have to fit on index cards and be written in large letters. We have so many laws right now, you are probably breaking one or two just by reading this.
One of my pet peeves is when I hear someone says the Government has the "Right" to do somthing.
People have Rights… which come from God or Nature (depending on yer belief system), while Governments have Powers, and Limitations on those powers, which are derived from the will of the people.
Once you say a Government has a RIGHT to do somthing, it not only personifys it, but that statement means that either Nature, or God, has empowered that Government with said power…. which disavows the idea that the Government is accountable to the people.
Justice Thomas is a strict Constitutionalist and a national treasure as well. His, along with other great black conservative thinkers, treatment by the left should forever brand the left for what they truly are….an ideology of unbridled racism and elitism that would usurp the Constitution if allowed.
well, i am not sure if thomas, or scalia is my fav justice. but i do know, i did like the ruling on handguns, but daley is at it again. he does not want guns in chicago. and the bad news is obama won't dare slapdown daley, as he is son of the daley machine, and obama does not want to rock that boat. but, once obama is gone, i think they will be able to protect themself in chicago with handguns. why is daley so blind, the more guns he take from law abiding citizens, the more gun violence there is. also i do like that the argument is starting to change. our rights are not from government, the government cannot take our rights as stated in the bill of rights.
In a total "in your face" to the marxists who over the ages have done everything they can to attempt to spell out specific "rights" through their interpretation of OUR Constitution. Lenin did it, Stalin did it, Khrushchev expanded and today we see China doing the same thing.
Thank you to Justices, who have a brain, can read English and are fluent with the passion of being the last bastion GUARDING OUR FREEDOMS that have been bought and paid for with a very high price in blood. Congress and this regime administration are working overtime to take them all away.
To the idiot progressive Justices, who think they are the arbiters of our rights, crawl back into your hole. Good riddance to Stevens! Unfortunately, we have another turd to replace the turd leaving the bench. No matter how you polish them or dress them, they are still turds.
good luck with that one,……
Chicago 8th Ward Alderman Freddrenna Lyle:
"…….If people bothered to read as opposed to getting their news from the "Tea Party Times' they would understand and see there is more harm done by the proliferation of hand guns than there is good,…."
yes she is right because up until Justice Thomas (et al),…
the only "proliferation" that was going on in my toddlin town was,……..
among the gang bangers,………now,………..
I always liked the look of a Winchester,…….
anybody got any suggestions.
Love the statement about logic! It was required for us in college, way back when we received a good education. It certainly should be required for lawyers and judges, legislators too!! Like that's going to happen. Thank God for Thomas and Scalia, such great men.
Right on! I am so often reminded of the answer to Pontius Pilate – "You would have no power if it were not given to you from above." These people destroying our country and the world will have a lot to answer for!
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It is Daley's failed policies, and those of the DEMs who run the entire city, which have led to the culture of violence that is found on the streets of the city. Daley has to blame the deaths and maiming of Chicago citizens on something, and so he chose an inanimate object … the gun.
Without guns, the blame goes where it belongs: on Daley, and the 45 Aldermen of the city, all Democrats.
Shotguns. Best close-range self defense weapon in the world …
I prefer a Smith and Weston
K-Frame, .357-maggie!
I agree with SB's comment on shotguns, but if you are in bed and need to get your hands on something quickly, I suggest a revolver- Smith and Wesson .357 or a Ruger Revolver- revolvers, depending on size, hold 5 or 6 rounds… but they are almost guaranteed 100% never to jam. Also, they make these neat holsters that allow you to store your firearm on the back side of you bed's headboard- just reach around back and draw. I personally keep two pump shotguns and two .357's on ready.
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Didn't Harry Reid also call BO a "Clean, articulate black man"?
The government should have no right to do anything except those things we the people define for it. We already hold our natural rights as a consequence of a higher power, and no government on earth has the right to countermand those rights.
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My husband has been asking his buddies at work, and they recommended something called "The Judge." They said it takes .41 cartridges that can also be used in some shot guns. They also say it can hunt some very small game.
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No, it was Joe Biden who said: "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, I mean, that's a storybook, man."
Harry Reid described Obama as: a "light-skinned African American with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one"
Harry Reid also famously said: "The war is lost" about Iraq.
Harry had a stroke and I swear he's been senile since then. He even mistakenly voted against Obamacare TWICE.
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You're playing their semantic game… Governments have not RIGHTS at all, as Rights come from God or the Universe.
I usualy don't do this… but your statement should read "The Government should have no POWER except for those things we the people define for it…….. and no government on earth has the POWER to countermand those rights…."
By using the Term Rights, when speaking of Government POWER, you give it the illusion of having some inherent "life" of tis own…
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Oh! Ya Baby
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Ya know, if the entire SCOTUS is Clarence Thomas, we wouldn't have been in the situation we're in today with all of these rulings on Guns, Roe vs Wade ect.
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The notion of a "Silent Sentinal" comes to mind when I think of Justice Thomas. The disdain heaped upon him by the elitist left leaning Senators during his confermation hearing was but a bath in the refiners fire. The steel that emerged from that refinery is on display, not with questions he asks of those presenters befor the court, but in his reasoned and scholarly opinions published on the side of Freedom and the Costitution. In the world of jewlery one of the most prized of pearls is the rare "black pearl" it shines with a luster reflecting the depth of clarity from its formation. The strand of pearls that make up the Supreme Court has in it midst the rarest of Gems, a Justice that heeds the history of the Constitution from the vision of those who wrote it based upon their writings regarding the process by which they arrived at what we have today, the Greatest Document pertaining to the Natural rights of humankind bestowed by Natures God, not a government. God Bless Justice Thomas.
Unfortunately too many people, especially around here, are enamored of the phrase "states rights" to ever stop opening that door to giving government rights to do things in despite of the people.
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[...] from: » Judges, Guns and Money: Part II – Big Government Posted in Credit, Personal Finance « Numberplay: Your Money or Your Logic – Wordplay [...]
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Actually it's a .410 Shotgun shell, capable of firing birdshot, buckshot, or a slug. At close range, it'll to the job, but unless you're the size of Andre the Giant, it doesn't conceal very well.
Anyone heard how the Conservatives and RINOs are standing on Kegan…I head that Mitch McConnell came out as a NO vote.
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Ralphie,
The Winchester is already legal. You can have a shotgun in Daleyland. Barrel must be at least 18.5" to be State legal. I have a few Remington 870s, one of which is a 48yr old Wingmaster that I picked up for $225.00. Looks damned good, functions perfect. 2 rounds of #8 bird-shot as a "warning"* and then an anti-personnel round of 6x#1buck and a .65 caliber lead ball. Racking a pump-action should deter all but the dumbest of human beings. Handgun for HD? Smith and Wesson K or L frame in .357 4" barrel, stainless steel preferred**, and 2-3 speed-loaders with 125gr JHP (Hornady FTX is among the best).
The best gun is the one you never have to use in self-defense.
* At close ranges #8 is gonna hurt real bad, but looks better to a judge than using anti-personnel first.
** S&W 'cause they're the best (esp for the $$$), stainless steel 'cause it don't rust (also "shiny" in low light -had a prowler a few months back, checked the house and went outside. Only an idiot would have failed to recognize what I was holding. All quiet since…). Blued revolvers are gorgeous (I have a few), but easy maintenance has it's bene's. Forget semi-autos except as back-up -they jam seemingly out of the blue and for no good reason. My guns are the cleanest, most well-maintained possessions I have, and it still happens occasionally…
A note on the very tempting Taurus Judge: Nice gun, but less practical for HD purposes. New ammo is coming to market to address its shortcomings, but S&W .357 mag is the best all-around choice. Especially since you can practice with .38 special… (.45 Colt makes a big hole, but VERY expensive!)
Careful! It can get addictive…
The "Judge" is not practical for HD. New ammo is coming out to improve it, but shooting "shot-shells" through a rifled barrel is not the best solution. The gun also handles .45 Colt, but that is expensive for practice (as is the .410 shell). See my other post or the one by 4arepublic above. Same strategy used by both of us.
I agree with your post and your description. Me? Two Rem 870s and a three Smiths make for a full house. (full of security, that is…)
Both! And more than one of each…
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http://becketsaunders.wordpress.com/2010/07/06/th...
That Which Is Not Prohibited Shall Be Mandatory
July 6, 2010 by Becket Saunders
I presume Charlie Jones found this somewhere and has adopted or borrowed it: “Eventually, That which is not prohibited, shall be mandatory.”
This not so funny joke is employed by Charlie Jones, KRLD AM 1080, who hosts the Texas Overnight show where Mike from East Texas gives his weekly economic interviews. Jones is a bit weak on some areas of moral & political philosophy, but very libertarian and a strong advocate of our rights. The article below made me think of Jones’ wisecrack about prohibited acts & mandatory legal compulsion.
I also like Joe Sobran’s observation, “When we gave them a piece of paper that said they were in charge, it was our downfall”, or words to that effect. It seems appropriate to recall it here.
If you scan this article ( about the recent work of Justice Thomas ), and think of something important you should be doing instead, you are normal. If you actually read all of this, and have no further reaction, then you have one order of mental problem ( which is my level ). If you read it and enjoy the process, you should work on life size mazes, perhaps made from shrubs ( which we think of when 19th century English gardens are mentioned )-and you have a much stranger order of mental problem than someone who simply reads it and thinks it curious. I say this makes physics & theology appear to be quite simple ( in fact I have a succinct statement for reducing those two topics to one simple equation ).
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H&K USP Compact, .40 S&W. With a twelve round magazine. My wife had not even fired a pistol for about 20 years-and she outscored me and some twenty men at her first Concealed Carry class. The S&W .40 was used to kill a tiger in the Los Angeles zoo, when it was eating some drugged loons who got into the enclosure. A tiger.
The lower front area, under the front of the barrel provides a rail to attach the usual sort of laser pointer sights. Really nice piece of goods. Flawless.
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Justice Thomas is my favorite also for so many reasons. To name a few, I believe he is close to the smartest Justice on the court (if not THE smartest) and most plain spoken. He is very witty and funny but not many people know it due to him not giving many speeches. If you ever get the chance to hear him speak, he has a very dry sense of humor and a laugh that's infectious. And maybe the best of all, he's black and that drives the progressives nuts due to the reasons I've mentioned above!!!
Be healthy, Sir. May you live a long and healthy life and may many of those years be spent on the SCOTUS.
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all you guys seem to know what is needed,..I will keep you guys posted
on my next move,…..
still have to convince the wife.
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Kegan is going to argue with THIS Man?
That shall be a laugh if it ever happens.
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The 2nd Amendment DOES SAY that the RIGHT of the people to bear Arms, shall NOT be infringed. The framers viewed the bearing of Arms to be a right of the people that was not to be impeded. When a people are denied access to Arms, the governing institutions are free to abuse their subjects without fear of reprisal. The right to protect ones self, family and property were considered a basic right. It is dangerous to allege that it is a privilege to be afforded the opportunity to bear Arms, as any progressive can find ways to turn this to an argument for restricting a "privilege".Look up the definition of infringed and it is pretty clear that it means you can not interfere with the people's right to bear Arms. That should include any excessive fees, taxes paperwork, licensing, etc. Any restriction desired must be reasonable enough to allow all citizens the privilege of enjoying this "right". Convicted criminals do not fall under this definition as it is understood that by refusing to follow the laws of the land, the must be restricted in their rights in some way to compensate for their inability to allow their fellow beings their unimpeded rights.
Liberal Democrats heap extra hatred on Justice Thomas just as they do Sarah Palin. The tie that binds? They are both independent and refuse to assume a subservient posture before the progressive gods.
Liberal Democrat hate list…
Old people
Gun owners
Conservatives
Religious people
Independent women
Big business owners
Small business owners
Those who are pro-life
Those who are pro-choice, if they choose life
Independent black people
Those who oppose g@y marriage
Those who respect the Constitution
Those who THINK for themselves
People who actually EARN a living
If You Have any Doubts About Gun Control… http://usataxpayer.org/?0079012351
It's the women… http://usataxpayer.org/htm/women.asp
Personally I prefer my Ruger .44 Magnum, but it is a bit too powerful for some. Ruger is a top quality brand of revolver, made in America. Revolvers are the most reliable handgun. Remember that a single action has to have the hammer pulled back to cock the gun for each shot, while with a double action you can keep pulling the trigger to fire successive shots. The other important thing is the ammunition. Talk to your supplier about personal protection rounds. They are much better than a standard bullet. They are designed to mushroom more quickly, transferring energy to expansion, which creates a wound that is much more likely to stop a determined drug crazed intruder and will be less likely to penetrate walls, which creates a bigger danger to other innocent people in the same home or next apartment. Shotguns are nice if you have a legal short barreled type. Be sure it is a pump shotgun though. The sound of a shotgun shell being pumped into the chamber is in itself quite a deterrent. Don't be afraid to shoot an intruder if you feel that they are threatening your safety. They aren't concerned about your safety, so you shouldn't worry about theirs!
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"Daley does not want handguns in Chicago."
Indeed, but since he can't keep them from the hands of criminals he has to settle for keeping them from the hands of law abiding citizens. He has settled for doing what is possible even if it puts him on the side of arming criminals against the innocent. He is too vain and stupid to admit if he can do no good he should do no harm.
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Numberplay: Your Money or Your Logic…
First, a quick note. Today is Monday, which means two posts. The first is the Monday Crossword discussion: a funny and clever piece by Jim Horne. Separate, it is. Jim posted it last night. Our second post this day is this week’s logic puzzle. Which i…..
louis no one cares about us only ourself !!!
[...] Josie Wales пишет: Smith and Wesson K or L frame in .357 4″ barrel, stainless steel preferred**, and 2-3 speed-loaders with 125gr JHP (Hornady FTX is among the best). The best gun is the one you never have to use in self-defense. * At close ranges #8 is gonna hurt real bad, … S&W ’cause they’re the best (esp for the $$$), stainless steel ’cause it don’t rust (also «shiny» in low light -had a prowler a few months back, checked the house and went outside. Only an idiot would have failed to … [...]
Conveyancing Solicitors…
[...]below you’ll find the link to some sites that we think you should visit[...]…
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