Is it Always Better to Have Health Insurance?
by Dr. Jane OrientUninsurance is portrayed as being like a disease; it has even been called an epidemic. At a minimum, it puts you one medical bill away from bankruptcy, and you might even die from it, they say.

Yet some people I know, even doctors, do not want to buy health insurance.
And I know of at least one person who was very lucky to have had hers cancelled.
Here’s her story. She told an acquaintance, who happened to be a physician, about her eye symptoms. “Wouldn’t you know! I lost my insurance a couple months ago, and now this!”
The physician happened to have an ophthalmoscope in her truck, and took a look in the patient’s eye. Then she called a retinal surgery practice and told the receptionist the patient’s history, and the results of the limited examination she could do. She thought the patient might have a detached retina.
The receptionist asked what type of insurance the patient had and was told she had none.
“Oh, self pay,” the receptionist said.
The technician said to send her over. “And by the way, ask her not to eat or drink anything in case she needs an operation.”
The outcome? The patient was seen within a couple hours, diagnosed, and treated immediately. Fortunately, she just had a retinal tear and a lot of blood in her eye. A simple in-office procedure probably prevented a detachment. The bill: $900. She’ll pay it off over time.
“What’s an eye worth?” she asked.
Now, what would have happened if the Medicaid program hadn’t cut her off—because she earns $100/month too much? In that case, she wouldn’t have had to worry about the bill.
But—the receptionist would have had to say: “You’ll need to fax over a referral.”
A Medicaid patient can’t be billed, except for a nominal copayment. Without a referral, Medicaid can’t be billed. So if the specialist, or in this case subspecialist, sees the patient, he cannot be paid. Moreover, he is probably violating a rule and conceivably might be prosecuted for soliciting business (that’s called “fraud”). Discounts and freebies are marketing strategies, after all, and the poor and vulnerable have to be protected.
Not just any doctor can give the patient a referral. This doctor couldn’t. It has to be the patient’s primary care provider, who is contracted with the patient’s plan. And the specialist has to be in the plan too.
Say that a seizure patient needs to see a neurologist promptly to have his medications adjusted. Sorry, the emergency room doctor can’t write the referral. Neither can the hospitalist who is discharging the patient from the hospital. It has to be the “primary.” If the primary happens to know the patient, he might just send the referral. But most of the time, the patient will have to come in. The primary won’t want to risk getting an unnecessary referral or an incident of “inadequate documentation” on his report card.
For a retinal problem, there are probably three hurdles: the primary gatekeeper (who might not even think of the diagnosis), then the general ophthalmologist (who will make the diagnosis but can’t treat it), and finally the subspecialist. All probably have waiting times for appointments, especially for Medicaid patients. Most doctors can’t afford to see very many of those.
Not just Medicaid, but all managed-care plans have a structure like that. It’s part of the cost-containment strategy. I know of three insured patients who had retinal detachments. They all had premonitory symptoms, and they all—eventually—had elaborate and costly operations, as many as six procedures. They were “covered,” and they didn’t get a bill for $900, but they had a poor visual outcome that might have been prevented by prompt treatment.
With “health care reform,” most Americans, aside from politicians, would be stuck in such a system. The new idea is “to change the [fee-for-service] payment model to a system in which doctors and hospitals earn more by keeping patients healthy and out of doctors’ offices and hospitals” [emphasis added].
And we need more primary care providers and fewer specialists, the “experts” say. More people to “coordinate care” and determine eligibility and conduct smoking cessation counseling. Fewer doctors to actually give care or examine eyes.
The system will not prevent retinal detachments, or epilepsy, or leaking aneurysms, or appendicitis, or other conditions that need a doctor with specialized skills. It will just create barriers to direct, timely access to such physicians.
Insurance is supposed to help you pay bills in the rare event of a catastrophe. If it morphs into a scheme for emptying your wallet in advance, and then prevents bills by preventing treatment, we just might be better off without it.






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138 Comments
Wow. Eye opener.
I appreciate the case in this story, but more times than not, I think the uninsured both put a burden on the system and find themselves in tough situations.
Now, I am not a proponent of a single payer system, so I agree with the concerns about expanding Medicare or loopholes with Medicaid, but lets think about what would have happened if that woman had cancer or something else that would require treatments in the $100's of thousands of dollars.
Either she would not get treatment, or be in debt for years to come, or the hospital would have to write off the costs of treatment, which increases everyone else's cost. Chances are, it would be a combination of the three.
In an ideal world, everyone would be insured. Whether or not it should be mandated, is a big question, but I do not believe the answer is single payer, but I also don't believe the answer is being uninsured.
lol! Someone had to say it!
"In an ideal world, everyone would be insured"
Wrong. In an ideal world, patients could pay doctors directly and a doctor could charge based on his ability/reputation, not becaused of some crapped up govt mandates and regulations.
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"Wrong. In an ideal world, patients could pay doctors directly and a doctor could charge based on his ability/reputation, not becaused of some crapped up govt mandates and regulations."
Ok, agreed in an 'ideal world'. However, the days of trading a dozen eggs to a doctor for an office visit to set a broken arm are well behind us.
For routine office visits, paying the doctor is just fine. Have any major illness, and there is no way the average American could afford to pay for the treatment, EVEN if the cost was greatly reduced through reform to the whole system.
It's like car insurance. If you have a $500 clunker, you can afford to go around without insurance, but if you have a $20,000, $30,000 or $40,000 relatively new car, don't have insurance and get into an accident, there is a pretty good chance you won't be able to afford to get it fixed.
Insurance is not a bad thing, and serves a purpose for most people.
The problem with insurance is there are a lot of people who run to the doctor every time they get a sniffle.
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Purely anecdotal, but this is my experience: I did not have health insurance, but needed to see a doctor for a sudden, persistent skin rash. I called a local office and asked how much for a consultation- "$125.00, who is your insurance provider?" "I don't have insurance" "Oh, okay- $90.00" I see the doctor and am asked again who my provider is. "I dont have coverage". "How are you going to pay?" I told him by check and he said okay, it would be $60.00. continued…
I went to pay my bill and it was $90.00. I questioned the receptionist and the doctor happened to be walking by at the time. He asked me how much cash I had. $46.00, I said. That's what I paid. And I saw the doc the same day I called. It was worth a $79.00 discount in his fee not to have to go through all the bullshit to see a patient and then hope to eventually get paid. I now have a major medical/catastrophic policy that I pay for out of pocket because the plan through my employer is sky-high. I haven't used it in the five years I have had it, and my premium increases every year. But you know what? I am being responsible, taking good care of myself and accepting the risk that not everything is covered. I am happy with my plan, don't take it away!!!
A middle ground somewhere should be looked into vs coming up with new bills that the country does not have the money to pay for. Why not fix whats wrong with the system, clean up the books vs whats being presented to us. "Either you do it or else, dont think about it just vote on it". Hate to say it but I feel this HC reform will go through by next week if not before the end of the year. The worst part about something already bad is that it will be the first time in US history that the govt will mandate that "you" purchase something or else. So are we free? Those on the Hill have been asked repeatedly to cite where in the Constitution HC is a must. Of course they have no clue, and belittle those bringing up whether their actions are within the US Constitution. They are whining about Lieberman but is it not true they can take this to committee and pass it? TARP, ARRA, Omnibus 1 & 2 how much is enough for the American people? Too many zombies out there thinking "oh someone else will handle this". Too many thinking its not a big deal things will get better, mind you these are the same already on the system, only vote based on what they hear vs their own research or are flat out living in denial "oh that(socialism etc) will never happen here, they (who is the they many always refer to?) will never let it happen".
These zombies do not realize they are in fact the cause of the problem and the "they" they speak of are in fact themselves! No one is going to rise up speak out against all of this garbage going on folks. Its on you to do something about all of it. Time to turn the heat up on corrupt politicians who DO CARE ABOUT YOU AND WILL NOT LISTEN, bias fringe media pushing this absurd agenda and the special interest groups benefitting from it all through http://www.savingtherepublic.com
"Either she would not get treatment, or be in debt for years to come, or the hospital would have to write off the costs of treatment, which increases everyone else's cost. Chances are, it would be a combination of the three".
Why is it that the Senate plan could include a mandate to buy insurance?
Why is it that some Doctors will not take Medicare payments?
So what if she was in debt for years?
You seem to be making the case for death panels.
I have been laid off since October. This past Friday night I had my first acute asthma attack in 20 years. I am 35 now. It was something that happens to asthmatics every so often, but we deal with it. Anyway, I do not have insurance, but I had to go to the ER. My husband drove me there, and guess what, despite the horror stories the libtards put out there, I received awesome care. No body through me out on the street because of lack of insurance. No one said to me that my care would be limited because of lack of insurance. Yeah, I will have a big bill later, but that is a small price to pay for the fact that my life was saved that night. Oh by the way, I WILL pay the bill, I am not one of those people that is looking for a handout.
So, I am just one story, but look at it this way. I am pi$$ed. I am pi$$ed that because of this economy I will have that bill, not because there is no single payer system out there, but because, I was forced into this situation AGAINST my will. I had perfectly good insurance before being laid off. That is a totally different monster, and does have to be dealt with, but until this economy gets going again, I am afraid that there are thousands of people like me out there.
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In a perfect free market system there would be competition among doctors, hospitals and drug companies, which would, as an unfettered free market does, force prices down and service up in order to be competitive. Most working families would be able to pay the bills, because the free market pricing would be " what the market will bear". They simply could not charge more than what could reasonably be collected. It is govt regulation, insurance companies, and frivolous law suits, that have helped to drive prices up, not doctors. They are forced to charge what they do so they can pay a staff to manage mountains of insurance paperwork and afford to pay absurd premiums for malpractice ins. I believe that most doctors would prefer to charge less, and to offer free services to those who really need it, rather than wallow in the muck of insurance and govt paperwork. Remember when doctors made house calls, and you could barter for your bill with chickens or roof repair. In the past there have always been those who needed help and those willing to help, as was the case with Church run hospitals and other charities. Should we have some basic rules to protect people? Yes. Does govt make for a better health system, or make anything cheaper or more efficient? Never has, never will. I think I'll make an appointment myself. All this stress over the economy, and my future tax bill to pay for it all, is giving me a killer migraine.
So, what's wrong with letting people decide what they want?
You're making the case for leaving the system alone with your "car insurance" analogy…thanks…
And I don't want to pay for abortions…you want it, you buy it…and leave me out of it…
(continued) My point is that I have an excellent insurance policy with the freedom to see practically any Doctor of my choice. The premium for this outstanding coverage is quite reasonable, since the plan has a high deductible with costs managed from dollar one. Guess what? This type of plan will no longer be available under “reform”. I'll have to get in line, take a number and wait, like the rest of the poor saps in Canada and Britain. This is what they call health insurance “reform” in the Democratic Party.
Hey, at least if the Doc messes up, I’ll be able to sue their butts off. …WHAT A RELEIF!
Maybe this is ridiculous, but perhaps the government (if they do anything at all) should concentrate on making healthcare more affordable instead of trying to make health insurance more affordable.
If they think that making health insurance affordable/available to all is the utopian dream, then I think they're missing the point. They're only treating the symptom, not the cause.
I'm not at all saying that doctor's get paid too much, or that our current top-of-the-line healthcare system isn't worth a lot of money. I'm totally fine with doctor's, nurses, etc., getting paid a lot of money. After all, they spend over a decade in school and we entrust them with the lives of our families, so I'm completely okay with them being wealthy.
All that being said, I think this health insurance "reform" has nothing to do with reform or insurance, but a government power grab aimed at adding 30+ million more government dependents. If this had anything to do with actually taking care of people, there would certainly be far superior proposals on the table.
My youngest Son had movement in his eyes starting at two months old. We brought him to the pediatrician, who referred him to a downtown ophthalmologist. We met with the Doc, who was quite brusque and informed us that a determination could not be made on the eye movement and to “come back in six months”… Given this, I got on the phone the next day and found out through an associate who was considered the “best” pediatric ophthalmologist in the Midwest. I got her name, called her up, set up an appointment, saw her, and received a correct diagnosis of my Son’s condition within a week.
My point is that I have an excellent insurance policy with the freedom to see practically any Doctor of my choice. The premium for this outstanding coverage is quite reasonable, since the plan has a high deductible with costs managed from dollar one. Guess what? This type of plan will no longer be available under “reform”.Hey, at least if the Doc messes up, I’ll be able to sue their butts off. …WHAT A RELEIF!
I WORKED in the medical system, and what you've just related is exactly what happens…
When you self-pay, the Doc gets immediate compensation for his/her work.
There is no ICD-9 coder to go through the paperwork for a diagnosis the insurance folks want. There is no on-site bookkeeper playing with accounts for late payments or denied claims. There is no one chasing hundreds of little wallet cards and copies of them to approve the provider and the patient. There is no re-filing of claims (BTW; a NOTORIOUS constant with any government supplied plan; if they can delay long enough, they won't have to pay the claim). There are no long delays on phones with insurance companies trying to get payments released. There is no one working on co-pays. There is no one pulling forms out of computer printers for signatures for insurance. There is no faxing, no postage, and no "checks in the mail" business. There's no one running to printing offices, no new forms to find and keep track of, and no delays when the machines break down.
i have more…but that should be enough for the intelligent to see what the problem is…
Car insurance is NOT Required… 'Financial Responsibility' IS required and last time I checked it was $30,000 in Calif. – OR public Liability/property damage Insurance – this is only required IF you have a car and use it on the public roads.
I was unlucky enough to be between insurance plans when I burst fractured my L5 vertibra on a construction site – I had excellent care and am walking around – with Harrington rods – via medi-cal – the operation and care was over $40,000 – eventually the insurance on the construction job paid $25,000 and all of the providers were paid proportionally.
My point is there are safety nets in place-
We need to make many changes to the system, BUT we do NOT need what is being proposed by the REID or PELOSI bills – they are pure garbage.
I'm in line in front of you…and they made the quota this week with me…
Come back next week…
What you are missing is that without so much insurance, the cost of things would go WAY down over time. Yes, at first the rich would be the only people to get the expensive procedures. But, think about computers with A-drives (remember from long ago those "floppy" drives??). People with lots of money bought them first. Then, they got cheaper. Now the rest of us "have-nots" sneer at the thought of owning such a dinosaur of a computer. The same would be for medical care. The cancer treatments that are top of the line now would shortly become much cheaper (and then the market would keep discovering so many more advances such the cycle was perpetuated) so all could afford it instead of the government keeping costs up artificially. Is that the perfect system? Of course not, perfect is that everyone is healthy, makes perfect life choices, etc. But this way, no one is a drain on society and the government doesn't need to get involved (meaning screw it all up), and there would be a huge number of doctors that could afford to offer reduced care to the poor (ever heard of doctors without borders? They would be here, too, if it weren't for the stupid people in our Fed Gov't.). All could logistically be cared for through the free market…getting the government involved in things that they are not Constitutionally allowed to do is just asking for more trouble.
There is almost always a free market answer that is not listed on the "options" list that the government presents. At the risk of using a worn out analogy, we have to not only think outside the box…but we have to tell them that we don't even have a box and to get the heck out of our lives!
I would rather have the system stay as it is, then go to what the Dems are pushing. However, I do think the system has problems and needs reform, but that certainly shouldn't be done with a single payer system.
I'm perfectly fine with letting people decide what they want, but then at the same time, should we force hospitals to treat them? Why not let people choose if they want insurance, and if they choose not to, and have a serious illness, let them die if they can't afford treatment? It's a pretty hard line, but isn't that what must be done if you are truly going to let people choose.
We can't keep letting people choose while giving them a safety net of free treatment, which they rest of us pay for when hospitals and doctors have to make up the costs someplace.
Wow, if that wasn't a manufactured fairy tale.
Guess it would have worked the same way if she found a lump in her breast. Nice little $900 bill and she would have gone, right?
Leave the Fables to Aesop.
*groans*
From one asthmatic to another, glad you made it through.
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AMEN to that! Freedom, Liberty, Choice-what a concept.
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Wow, I have to hand it to you Biggovernment. I wouldn't have thought there could be an argument made that it's better not to have health insurance but you have proved me wrong. I'm sure all the people in America who go bankrupt every year from a health crisis will be interested to hear this too. As the commenter above pointed out, if this person had cancer , the result of the story would be a little different.
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Healthcare and Insurance are two completely different things. Healthcare is what you may need if you get sick or injured, insurance is not needed by anyone it its merely some kind of a payment scheme. People who buy health insurance are greedily hoping to receive their healthcare cheaper than, and at the expense of, those who remain uninsured. People would not have purchased insurance unless they thought that they were getting some kind of a deal. So don't tell me that the uninsured are the freeloaders. Uninsured sick people, even though they receive no insurance, will be billed for a whole slue of insurance related services that they did not receive! You frivolously use healthcare for a runny nose and "who cares" how much it costs because you're covered, but you could care less how your actions are affecting others. I won't be showing up at a emergency room unless there is an actual emergency, and even then I'll have to pay the "who cares" pricing demanded by your insurance company! Why should I have to pay for the salary of the medical coder, the claims adjuster, the insurance training of receptionists, etc.
At the risk of having tons of negative thumbs I submit this for your viewing pleasure. One possible mis leading statement is that all "Managed care plans have a structure like that", not so. In arizona in the two most populus counties of Maricopa and Pima, The largest provider of HMO Medicare advantage plans has an open access network of physicians. The e Medicare beneficiary just needs to call any physician in the HMO network and make an appointment no "referral necessary." the remainder in the next comment.
Second misstatement: "If Medicaid (a state based as well as a Federally based program which includes both Medicare Advantage plans and Regular Medicare Plans; with a Medicare Supplement and Part D policies to cover the gaps of parts A&B of what they do not pay for) had dropped her she would have been made aware of the income issue bwell before being dropped so as to secure either a lower based Medicaid program or find an alternative Medicare plan if her plan associated with the Medicaid plan did not continue.
These are not trivial misstaements for someone writing what should be an accurate article.
I am by no means a fan of anything the Congress has put before us or has kept from us and we only get to see glimpses of the provisions. For that part of this article I commend her and agree. But the picture that is painted is not one that reflects the entire United States Medicare/Medicaid system.
P.S.
I have spent the last 20 years in an insurance career in Arizona.
The problem with insurance is that the insurance industry is way too powerful and pretty much calls the shots. "They" decide whether your condition is medically necessary and if it is you'd better hope it is not a work related injury, car accident or pre-existing condition because they will deny your claim faster than you can file it. The insurance companies have driven up the cost of health care by cutting re-imbursements for doctor's services forcing the doctors to raise thier fees and spend less time with each patient. They also practice a philosophy called "cost shifting", which means the insured pays higher premiums, higher deductibles and higher co-pays.
I think the problem is that we're all over-insured. Why don't we just pay a few hundred dollars a month for catastrophic coverage, (you know, in case we get eye cancer costing hundreds of thousands of dollars to treat). In the interim, we go to the doctor when we need to, and pay out of pocket for standard preventive care and smaller emergencies. Best of both worlds.
Yes unless it is Medicare then you go by the DRG's which have been approved by Medicare. These same DRG's are also used by regular healthcare providers in non Medicare plans. The basis of all healthcare coverage stems from the Medicare planning. Insurance companies give insureds contracts, the agenet reviews the contracts both pro and con, or at least they should, and a determination by the proposed insured is thus guided in the process. More below
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I have seen many proposed clients, who I have walked away from, because they were less than candid about their health or some other aspect such as drug use etc. I stand by my previous postings and add this.
Are you also aware that the Mdeical Cost Ratio Average for the health insurance industry is between 75% and 85%? This is the amount which goes to pay medical claims from the premiums paid. This leaves 15% to 25% for administration advertising slaes commissions and profit. The average Net Profit in 2007 as per U.S. News and World Report was 3.4% with United Healthcare coming in at 4.1%.
Government and not the free market is the problem. But that for another day!
Please excuse the typo's, big fingers.
Bingo.
Let the free market work. Government and Damn Corrupt Lawyers, get out of our lives.
You really think forcing all Americans buy insurance thru the Government Plan is going to work…..LOLOL Right. If people are poor now and can't afford it insurance, they will be poor and can't afford the govn't plan also… and BEST of all…GO to Jail. and pay a high fine…LOL LOL
Don't you see…its only GOVERNMENT CONTROL of the PEOPLE.
Example: I was on vacation and my CROWN came off. I called about 10 Dentists till I got pissed OFF. No ONE would take me unless I paid to have X-rays because they were scared of being Sued…
ALL I needed was some special glue to POP the Crown back on which I had done more than a few times with different teeth throughout 50 years.
BUT NO… I need to pay $75-100 more instead of a 5 minute task of gluing the Crown back on….I told them all to F…OFF.
NO this is what is happening in all ASPECTS of Medical/Dental Procedures.
GUESS what I will not pay for any GOV'T Healthcare..I will sooner go to jail…THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CONTROL ME from CRADLE to GRAVE.
BEST of all, IF I HAVE TO GO TO JAIL…I will have all my TEETH FIXED for FREE…LOL
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continued from above.
That's right U.S. gov't..put us all in Jail….then we will have 3 squares a day and FREE Health care any way.
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Great points! And, on top of that….people that actually purchase health insurance (or for that matter have jobs and get it thru work) are providing PROFITS to big insurance!
This is the equivalent of SLAVES working for free for their master all day; and growing crops on the side for themselves…but then PAYING their masters.
Who in their right mind would pay to be a slave?
Apparently anyone who buys private health insurance OR has a job that provides PRIVATE health insurance.
We need to get this Healtcare Act passed and FINALLY end the REAL slavery in America!!!
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Thank you!
To summarize your statement: The author has engaged in partisan propaganda.
I think the author's point was that we should have the freedom to negotiate directly with our doctors if we so choose. It's often far cheaper that way and we are all more personally aware of the costs.
Of all types of insurance, health insurance is the ONLY type that we purchase with the full intent of actually using it. In auto, casualty, home, flood, fire insurance etc., the intent is that we never have to use the insurance policy. That is how the business of health insurance actually started out – it was for catastrophic coverage. Regular "health care" and maintenance, which was a separate issue, was all business conducted directly between the consumer and the health care providers. We should be permitted to go back to that model if as individuals we prefer to do so, and purchase a separate policy for the "health insurance", i.e. cancer treatments, kidney treatment (as in my own case), and such. Many people would prefer to set up a plan directly with our primary doctors for a monthly or annual fee. Unfortunately, the current law does not allow doctors to make such arrangements – it's considered to be operating as an insurance agent! For Christ's sake, it's health CARE, which is different from insurance. The very concept of "insurance" in all other models is supposed to be something that you never use except when there is an absolute emergency. For the 10% of uninsured Americans facing a catastrophic situation, perhaps that's where government on some level might have some role. But for the other 90%, it should get out of the way and allow us to decide for ourselves how we want to manage our health care and our health insurance.
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I had a baby, by c-section, without health insurance. Just starting out a business my husband and I were without insurance. But we paid over time; two or three years in fact, and finally paid it off. It was not that difficult.
Just a year before that, I broke my foot…no insurance. My doctor took me aside and gave me the price. He said he was not suppose to charge me less than he does the insured patients, but since he didn't get full reimbursement from them, it all evens out.
It's true, those with insurance go to a doctor when they have a cold. A cold! Whatever happened to curling up in a blanket and sipping hot soup?
Your welcome.
To give her the benefit of the doubt let me offer an alternative; incomplete or sloppy research!
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Passing the Health care bill would be a disaster. We need to eliminate all unneeded third party parasites on the doctor/patient relationship. If we allow the government to join the parasites they will be biggest leech of them all! We certainly do not want everyone to be "insured." Either by private or by government means. We don't need to fund either the ins. industry or the government with our health care dollar. We need to spend that dollar on health only. We need to cut out the middle men and get our health care cheaper!
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What part of "when the Government comes into the equation, Insurance companies cannot compete" do YOU not understand?
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[...] Michael Stolp Is it Always Better to Have Health Insurance http://biggovernment.com/2009…; 24 minutes [...]
The best solution would be reasonably priced (affordable) catastrophic health insurance. Cut out the frills, let people pay for their basic (and elective) care, and protect them from financial ruin in the case of dire circumstances. Fix the obvious stuff: tort reform to limit the overblown legal windfalls (which will bring down the costs of malpractice insurance for health care providers); and allow insurance companies to compete across state lines. Those simple tweaks will make our health care system rock. This nonsense being crammed down our throats isn't designed to produce better heath care, but to subject us to big brother controls supposedly for our own good.
Are you a Laywer?
Absolutely true! I went to my dentist and instead of the $70 he normally charges Medicare he said he would charge me $35 if only I paid cash during the visit. The sad part is he said the law forbids him from doing this and he had to charge me $70 no matter what.
He wound up retiring early, fed up with the system. He's now out fishing when he'd rather be working, all due to the misapplication of the so-called insurance, better defined as "wealth re-distribution." Think about it and figure it out!
[...] Michael Stolp Is it Always Better to Have Health Insurance http://biggovernment.com/2009…; 27 minutes [...]
High deductible is true insurance. Zero or low deductible is pre-paid discount, not an insurance.
All of these comments and no mention of tort reform!
Nobody ever mentions it.
In pa. we had a malpractice insurance crisis several years ago where Doctors were leaving the state in droves.
And dont try to tell me it is the fault of the insurance companies. THINK.
Just look at YOUR phone book who has the biggest ads. Do you think those ads are cheap? They cost THOUSANDS.
Wait till we have Govt. care and try to sue them. But of course the Govt. doesn't screw up.
Zero or low deductible insurance is not insurance. Try paying for zero insurance on your car or house. You'll figure that one out very quickly. Insurance is simply a risk sharing mechanism.
I think if I had eye cancer the cheapest method and least painful involves shopping for eye patches.
Tort reform is a given. I did not mention it because it was not in the article as an issue. It should have been but since I did not write the article I only comment on what was included.
you cant take risk out of life. If you save all the money you pay in monthly premiums youd have alot of money for any medical treatments you may need. Some people love going to the doctor, I cant stand it. In fact a few time doctors have given me medicines that interacted with each other and made me sicker. This universal health care crap only appeals to weak minded liberals/dunces
The big flaw with your assumption is that driving is a privilege not a right. Otherwise there would be no licenses or that pesky test to take. Not to mention if you drive drunk you lose your license. Under your hypothesis that would be cruel and unusual punishment. To equate auto ownership to health insurance is false.
I believe this article is a good example of health savings plans.
There is a reality of separating use and ownership. When you are allowed to use a service for free, you are likely to abuse the services.
Just for a reality check after the child is 10 years old or around that age, you will wish that you could return the child for your money back!
Most hospitals will try there best to help everyone without consideration of money. I am still waiting for the demoncrats to tell us real stories about people who have died from not having insurance. I am sure there are a few but from what I have seen, darn few. So far each of thes stories told by Obama as examples are false, dare I say it, I'll make Joe Wilson proud "You Lie".
I hope you are feeling much better.
Let the free market work. Government and Damn Corrupt Lawyers, get out of our lives.
You really think forcing all Americans buy insurance thru the Government Plan is going to work…..LOLOL Right. If people are poor now and can't afford it insurance, they will be poor and can't afford the govn't plan also… and BEST of all…GO to Jail. and pay a high fine…LOL LOL
Don't you see…its only GOVERNMENT CONTROL of the PEOPLE.
Example: I was on vacation and my CROWN came off. I called about 10 Dentists till I got pissed OFF. No ONE would take me unless I paid to have X-rays because they were scared of being Sued…
ALL I needed was some special glue to POP the Crown back on which I had done more than a few times with different teeth throughout 50 years.
BUT NO… I need to pay $75-100 more instead of a 5 minute task of gluing the Crown back on….I told them all to F…OFF.
NO this is what is happening in all ASPECTS of Medical/Dental Procedures.
GUESS what I will not pay for any GOV'T Healthcare..I will sooner go to jail…THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CONTROL ME from CRADLE to GRAVE.
BEST of all, IF I HAVE TO GO TO JAIL…I will have all my TEETH FIXED for FREE…LOL
The part that they get the ability to draft directly off my bank account if I chose not to have insurance. This is not about keeping your doctor which you may or may not do depending on what plan you are on. I switch from Humana to BC/BS a couple years ago and lost my doctor and favorite hopsital who does not accept BC/BS.
Now Dave, call your doctor and tell them you are a Medicare patient and you need an appointment, 70% of the doctors no longer accept this because it is a paperwork nightmare. I live in Miami, Gods Waiting Room and without insurance or cash it is tough to get an appointment and when you get one the doctor doesn't have the time to spend because it is about number of patients seen for those doctors.
Sounds like you have read the Republican plan. I have and I like it.
Call your doctor and tell them you have lost your insurance and you will need to pay in cash can they cut you a break on your bill. I can tell you the answer is yes.
As for fables, we are inundated by them by the press, scientists and politicians. Man Made Global warming, DDT, Lysenkoism, Eugenics, The New Ice age of the 1970’s these are not ideas that just happened they were pushed by our most trusted people and are all fraudulent claims.
[...] “Big Government » Blog Archive » Is it Always Better to Have Health …” http://biggovernment.com/2009…; 2 hours [...]
I don't know where you live, but, in Florida if you have ANY vehicle, no matter what it's worth, no insurance, ticket and you lose your license!!! Caught again you go to jail!
Dave. Really naive comment….Try to think past stage one on this. All existing individual plans will die off due to adverse selection if the government offers coverage at subsidized cost. Obviously this will not be immediate …Nowhere in the current offerings is there a government sanctioned high deductible plan….
[...] “Big Government » Blog Archive » Is it Always Better to Have Health …” http://biggovernment.com/2009… 2 hours [...]
You win Momma. We now have prepaid health care,so by definition you pay alot. The uninsured do put stress on the system but not that much – infact the three main stressors so to speak are the under reimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid, malpractice/defensive medicine, and utilization. Utilization goes up because no one has to pay for their coverage. Insurance that protects you from a big cancer or heart problem is almost unheard of. Why we expect our annual doctors visit to be covered when it doesn't cost much mor ethan $100 is a huge problem. The government doesn't reimburse at a high enough level from Medicare so fewer and fewer doctors take it. The medicaid story in this post is more common than you think. Reinstitute true health insurance. Get rid of prepaid health care.
Barbara – you are sooo right! If the idiots on the left would spend as much time on CREATING JOBS as they do on trying to pass THEIR VERSION OF HEALTH REFORM, the number of insured would definitely go up. Since the liberals real goal is to CONTROL THE LIVES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, the number of uninsured will continue to rise. (This is what the socialist leftists want. People dependant on Gov't.)
[By creating jobs, I don't mean government jobs, we need jobs in the private sector].
What part of 'if you like your insurance you can keep it' don't you understand?????
Please – said no such thing. In her case, Medicaid would have been detrimental to the treatment. And shove the bankruptcy BS, we all know how that number occurs – they looked at all bankruptcy filings, if they found a single medical bill in the debts owed, no matter how small, they called it medical related. The number of primary medical bankruptcies is small. Catastrophic real health insurance would eliminate them all.
True story… When my second daughter was born I missed the window to add her to our insurance. I had a good insurance plan with a reasonable deductible. Anyway, We took hor to the doctor for her check ups the rest of that year and paid out of pocket (cash)… Doctors saw her same day/next day and charged less because we didn't have ins! When the next open enrollment came along we added her to the ins. to cover any major problems should they arise.
Now, I'm at a new company and have a lower monthly cost for ins, but have to pay $2400 out of pocket before Ins covers anything. At first I didn't like this, but now I see it's much cheaper for us.
Point of coment: Government doesn't know best! Let Ins companies be creative. Let us CHOOSE! Increase competition. If I want to pay cash, it's my CHOICE. If I want ins or not… it's my CHOICE!
[...] more from the original source: Big Government » Blog Archive » Is it Always Better to Have Health … By admin | category: health hmo insurance | tags: advantage-plans, did-not, experience, [...]
State laws mandate what insurance policies have to cover–you can't legally buy less than that. I will never need acupuncture or abortion, but sometime in the past people who didn't want to pay for those elective procedures out of their own wallet convinced their state representative that coverage oughta be a law, and the premiums of everyone in the state went up.
The reason private insurers are making so much profit is because the government has exempted them from the antitrust laws. If the private insurers were not allowed to collude and fix pricing there might actually be some competition. Equally important is the ability for the insurers to compete across state lines which the government has also stifled. Businesses are created to make a profit not to break even. Blame businesses all you like and at the end of the day it is they, not government, that create jobs. How do they do this? By remaining profitable.
The government simply needs to stop trying to control everything, including the economy and especially the health care industry and let free market capitalism work the way it's supposed to. The government needs to stop trying to cut itself in for a share of every businesses profits. Where the government can be the biggest benefit is to keep large corporations from stifling competition by buying out it's competitors and reign in companies that get too big to fail.
Government is not the solution. It is the problem. Think about it. You blame PRIVATE industry and insurers for being greedy yet you seem completely oblivious to the greed of the government who lacks the ability to control it's own spending and constantly relies on the taxpayers to pick up the slack. The same government that insisted banks allow unqualified people to get mortgages they couldn't afford expecting that Freddy and Fanny would buy those loans/toxic assets, again at the taxpayers expense.
The government needs to get out of the social engineering business and stick to protecting out borders and infrastructure. Leave the rest to the states and we the people.
This points out another problem with the whole third-party payer system. We add so much cost for routine care and service. The people who process the claims which can and should be paid out-of-pocket have to be paid. The system inflates its own cost.
With Demcare now in critical condition, Tea Party activists are turning up the heat today in Washington for the Code Red Rally on Capitol Hill. Laura Ingraham is hosting. Speakers include Sen. Tom Coburn, M.D. (R-Okla.) and Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.). Folks are traveling from across the country to be there.
If you are in the D.C. area today, join them at 1:30 pm, Upper Senate Park, on Constitution Ave. between New Jersey and Delaware St. NE.
More info here and here.
***
Update: A Hill source says to pay attention to Sen. Ben Nelson. He is reportedly being threatened with closure of an air force base if he doesn’t fall in line and will be offered a “blank check” bribe bigger than Sen. Landrieu’s.
Also: The Dems now expect the CBO scoring of the Reid plan that no one has seen to look good once the Medicare expansion is thrown under the bus. And: After all the sound and fury, Joe Lieberman is now reportedly on board with Demcare.
The Hill reports that Dick “In the Dark” Durbin is “moving toward 60.”
***
Sen. Nelson’s contact info:
Omaha
7602 Pacific St.
Suite 205
Omaha, NE 68114
Tel: (402) 391-3411
Fax: (402) 391-4725
Lincoln
440 North 8th Street
Suite 120
Lincoln, NE 68508
Tel: (402) 441-4600
Fax: (402) 476-8753
Washington, D.C.
720 Hart Senate Office Building
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: 1-202-224-6551
Fax: 1-202-228-0012
Scottsbluff
Tel: (308) 631-7614
Kearney
Tel: (308) 293-5818
South Sioux City
Tel: (402) 209-3595
I'm old enough to remember just going to my doctor, getting treated and writing out a check for the services. No muss, no fuss. Needed a specialist? My doctor would just say to call Dr. Soandso and make an appointment and again, go there, get treated and write a check. In the mid-70's, A cracked wrist cost me only a few hundred dollars and just a few hours of time and I just went directly to the specialist without seeing my regular doctor.
My daughter cracked her wrist a few years ago. The cost? Almost two grand and three days of time spent bouncing between doctors, some of whom had nothing to do with a cracked wrist. If course I asked about the price as well as the amount of time involved. I was told insurance regulations as well as malpractice forced all the extra and unneeded work as well as shooting the costs way up.
That was more than enough to tell me that I really missed the old days. Costs were much less back then simply because you weren't having to pay hundreds extra to push paper around and fend off trial attorneys who were looking to make a quick buck off of a simple procedure.
We were young parents without insurance for childbirth, when we were unexpectedly blessed with a second child. With help we found a private group that arranged for an interest free loan to pay for the expenses, with no scheduled deadlines to pay.
There are creative ways to handle health situations outside of one-size-constricts-all bureaucratic schemes.
"In an ideal world, everyone would be insured."
Being "insured" and getting treatment are two VERY different things. Lots of people have coverage through medicaid, or the VA or through Indian Health Service. Ask them how easy it is to get treated (or actually read the article about how Medicaid requires referrals from the primary and won't allow treatment without it). Just because they're "covered" doesn't mean they're going to get treated. Quite the contrary actually. Their coverage very likely will delay or deny treatment.
Everything you are saying simply furthers the argument FOR the Government to run healthcare.
If there is a single payer system, it will all work out.
Why are you so caught up in this competition thing?
Do they compete right now? Do they compete by streamlining their services, by bettering their turn around times, by providing individualized treatment, by trying to provide better rates?
LOL.
Competition.
PUHLEEZE!
You are the one that wants competition. If all existing plans die off, well, then they weren't necessary…were they? The best will survive.
First of all…I don't know what platitude means. So, really why even use a term like that.
Second of all….I have read the bills and YOU are distorting the thru your partisan reading glasses.
No, but I'll take that as a compliment
Fraud is a partisan term.
Sometimes, collectively managing the information flow on an issue of great importance is the only way to ensure that the good of the people is realized.
Republicans do it, too.
Now you are doing the same spinning…..call it what it is! An effort to misconstrue health care to rile people up.
Amen! I could not agree with you more. You might be interested to see what I am doing for the uninsured in the Kansas City area: http://www.pcsdoc.com. My blog may also be of interest: http://www.injuriesandusurpations.blogspot.com.
Steven Wittenberg Gordon, MD
Dave I am not a mind reader. This is the first article I have read by this author. It is not spinning when you are unsure or do not have a pattern of information to back up your assertions. I will leave that to you…obviously!
I have had cancer.
I was without insurance due to my husband being laid off from a job during one point after being diagnosed , yet I still got the best medical care at Mayo Clinic. We still pay monthly on that bill because it is our obligation but believe me I DID get medical care when we were not insured. In fact Mayo Clinic's charitable foundation helped with a part of the bill. We now have insurance and it covers 80% we cover the rest by living frugally and paying the bills every month.
Almost every hospital has a charitable foundation that can help when there is a need. And any hospital or clinic that takes government money (our tax dollars) must provide financial help for those that can't pay under the Hill Burton law passed in 1946.
Proof; http://www.hrsa.gov/hillburton/default.htm
"Hill-Burton facilities must post a sign in their admissions and business offices and emergency room that says: NOTICE – Medical Care for Those Who Cannot Afford to Pay, and they must provide you with a written Individual Notice that lists the types of services eligible for Hill-Burton free or reduced-cost care, what income level qualifies for free or reduced-cost care and how long the facility may take in determining an applicant's eligibility."
The result of this story is I did have cancer, I was in need of care, I got that care. We got some help as anyone in need could get, and we are being responsible and paying the rest of the bill. We also donate to Mayo's charity now so others who are in need get help too.
Actually no, there will be no malpractice lawsuits. It's the other way they plan on cutting HC costs.
Let’s say you do have cancer and you have no insurance. You still get treated and let’s say after all the discounts by the hospital and doctors you owe $200k. That can be structured over 10 or 30 years so it is affordable.
Yes Bankruptcy is an option but working with trying to pay the bills can work for many people also. My insurance costs me $900 per month. If that were saved for the last 20 years, I would be looking good for that Cancer bill. There are options but regardless of the money end you would not be turned out to the street to simply die. That is the main part that has been lost, you would be treated. Like the man choking in the restaurant said to the doctor “How much to I owe you for saving my life”, the doctor said “I’ll take half of what you would have paid, a minute ago.” Until you are about to die or live the rest of your life in pain, you don’t know what it is worth.
Medical bills trigger half of all personal bankruptcies : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6895896/
Jeff , you yourself have insurance, You know that it's better than not having it.
Since when is making a profit a bad word? People who want this Health Care Bill passed are being brainwashed by the left to think that its the big bad insurance companies that are to blame. That is not the case. The government has already set limits on the insurance companies preventing the market to truly be "free", driving up the cost of health insurance.
Those who are angry at the "big businesses" should be more angry at Congress for violating their oath to uphold the Constitution by mandating that because someone is alive they must purchase health care!
By the way anyone who thinks health insurance is too expensive should know that I'm 33 and just got catastrophic health insurance for $60 / month. Yes, that's right $60! I have to pay for my annual checkups, but I'm covered if anything major goes wrong. Including broken bones and stitches.
The current health care debate does not address price but redistributes who pays that price. Insurance does a lousy job of reducing overall prices because it hides the source of high costs by transferring those costs to others. Insurance “incentivises” its own use. It creates artificial demand. The more an individual exercise their personal insurance the lower the “unit cost” to the individual but taken as an aggregate this “individual incentive to lower personal costs” increases the overall demand which drives up prices. The current solutions of state care will only increase this artificial demand. Eliminate insurance and the individual becomes aware of the true costs and the artificial demand cycle is eliminated.
http://www.contractfromamerica.com/IdeaDetail.asp...
Yes. Additionally, doctors could choose to see patients on a sliding scale based on income–currently it is illegal for them to charge a patient less than Medicare reimbursement rates. And if a doctor gives a long-time patient a discount on a procedure and Medicare finds out, their future Medicare reimbursements for that procedure are cut. I know family practioners who wouldn't mind giving an honest bill-paying family a break during a truly hard time (like an injury to the breadwinner), and the federal government won't let them.
The part which says that there will be a federal board to determine minimum coverage requirements. Perhaps you should read the bills, or at least the synopses, instead of the platitudes of the Liar in Chief.
"For routine office visits, paying the doctor is just fine. Have any major illness, and there is no way the average American could afford to pay for the treatment"
Then why are all the "solutions" to the health care ones where the government makes nearly all the payments and decisions?
How about an insurance plan where premiums are low, it only pays on bills over $1000 and you pay cash for everything else? I can buy one like this at work but no one on capitol hill will talk about a plan like that. It doesn't give them enough control over my life.
Anything else isn't "insurance". What most Americans are buying these days isn't insurance. It is pre paid medical, with some insurance attached. You play the givernment or your employer a sum equal to all the routine care they expect you'll need (on average) in the year plus a little more for insurance. They then give you back your money to pay for your routine care and they pay the bill if something really bad happens to you. 3/4 of the money just goes from you to the insurance company and then to the provider.
Why not cut out the middle man and pay that part on your own? Only buy insurance to protect against the big stuff.
Do you buy an auto insurance policy that pays for tires, brakes and windshield wipers? Of course not. Why should you buy health insurance that pays for a runny nose?
Dave. Private industry competing with the government? Yeah, maybe if private industry had the power to tax and run up a 14 trillion dollar deficit… The "best" survives in a proft-driven free market, not this bastardization and you KNOW it….Who do YOU do business with? the bloated inefficient firm with huge losses on the verge of bankruptcy or the modern, efficient company with a healthy balance sheet….PLEASE! Go trolling somewhere else…..
Kristin. Absolutty malpractice lawsuits will continue. In fact, part of the House bill is the requirement that States cannot place any restrictions on tort action against Doctors. Have you noticed any objections from the trial lawyers who are the #1 contrbutors to the Dems?
If you can afford a $40k car, you can afford to get it fixed. I'm sick of having to buy car insurance in order to pay for other people's repair bills.
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So, why did you NOT take the cobra extension? In fact, the premium was going to be 65% subsidized by the fed.
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If she had found a lump on her breast, she should thank her creator that she is in the USA. The United States has the best breast cancer survival rates among developed nations.
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