Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance Is Not the Same as Mandatory Car Insurance
by Greg Knapp
I thought this analogy had been thoroughly destroyed, but it’s baa-aack. The One is claiming it’s no biggie that the new “health care” bills require every American to buy insurance because most states require everyone to buy car insurance. He goes back to that analogy as he downplays the fact that if you don’t buy health insurance you will eventually be sent to prison.
The President said that he didn’t think the question over the appropriateness of possible jail time is the “biggest question” the House and Senate are facing right now.
I’m thinking it’s a pretty big question for people who don’t want to buy health insurance and don’t want to pay a fine. The only way a “mandate” works is that, eventually, jail time is the punishment. Otherwise, people can ignore the mandate.
Back to the car insurance analogy:
“What I think is appropriate is that in the same way that everybody has to get auto insurance and if you don’t, you’re subject to some penalty, that in this situation, if you have the ability to buy insurance, it’s affordable and you choose not to do so, forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you, you know, there’s a thousand dollar hidden tax that families all across America are — are burdened by because of the fact that people don’t have health insurance, you know, there’s nothing wrong with a penalty.”
Here are the problems with that:
- Everybody doesn’t have to buy car insurance. You can choose not to drive and then you don’t need to buy the insurance.
- The only way to avoid mandatory health insurance will be to stop breathing. Our federal government has never required us to buy something just to exist in America.
- Driving is a privilege, Living and breathing is a right.
- You can choose liability coverage only for your car. Government will mandate what’s covered in your health insurance.
If this passes, it’s time for a class action lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of such a mandate.
By the way, if Obama is going to relate health care insurance to car insurance then it’s time to allow health insurance to be sold across state lines, remove expensive mandates, give the same tax breaks to individuals that businesses get and decouple insurance from your place of employment. Actually, those are the ways the two types of insurance should be the same.
You can watch Jake Tapper’s entire interview with President Obama here:
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150 Comments
Health Insurance? Car Insurance?
Does Barrack Obama truly want to save US, to protect US? If so, he must broaden his policies and make them all encompassing. Here is an interesting little factoid, seldom talked about. Did you know that Insurance Companies pay out more annually for dog bites, than they do for auto claims? That is a big number.
This is about power and control, not healthcare. Never has been about healthcare, ever. Obama and the marxists in congress want to control the sheeple and gather in the money. They MUST be stopped, or we are doomed as a free Republic.
Thank you this analogy that the left continues to use pisses me off.
I have been saying the exact same things you have the fact that you can choose not to drive and thus not buy car insurance is a huge difference. Well i guess you could choose not to live and then not buy health insurance.
You are right. If it is not stopped, we are doomed. If it is allowed to pass, the ignorant and complacent sheeple deserve to be shorn.
Plus, you buy the car insurance from a private insurance company. As far as I know, there is not a "government option" car insurance plan.
Why isn't anyone challenging the "must buy car insurance" claim? It's NOT TRUE. States require proof of financial responsibility NOT CAR INSURANCE. (Car insurance just happens to be about the only way to meet the responsibility unless you're rich enough to post a bond with your state.)
If that's the case, then can we buy the insurance from that green lizard ? How about the zaftig lipstick chatterbox at Progressive ? God knows that we would be better off dealing with reptiles and yakety dingbats than the US COngress and whoever Nancy Pelosi leaves in charge of our children's health !
Exactly what I've always said. The Audacity of this Dope to tell me that life is a privilege the government graciously grants me. It's sickening…
One more issue. It is states that require auto insurance not the federal government, correct?
You are required to provide insurance to protect others from accidents, not yourself.
Plus it is not the federal government that mandates auto insurance.
The whole analogy is false.
I would add to the list of problems:
5. Auto insurers are allowed to adjust the price of their assumption of your risk according to the amount of risk you present. The current proposals specifically outlaw that practice for health insurance.
6. The penalty for failing to purchase auto insurance is often loss of the privilege to operate a motor vehicle, not imprisonment.
Myself will go to jail and force a supreme court decision to this delberate take over of my freedom to breath
We are no longer 'Tea Baggers'
We are Americans
Tyranny is when people FEAR THE GOVERNMENT
Freedom is when the government fears the people
I refuse to fear the government
Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and the Geico Model of Universal Healthcare
Excerpts from November 6, 2009
"Today your car insurance rates skyrocket if you do any of the following: speed, drive recklessly, drive under the influence of alcohol or drugs, have an accident …. live in a high risk area, etc. If you prove yourself a high risk through your individual behavior or choices, you pay more …. for your lifestyle choices."
"What, you may be thinking, are examples of poor lifestyle choices?… You should pay a higher premium if: you are obese; you smoke; you are addicted to illegal drugs, you engage in high risk sexual practices (because of HIV, especially), … you play a high risk sport like football, you eat fast food, you fail to take your insulin… You get where I am going with this."
If you can be put in jail for not buying health Insurance, what can the government do to you for making poor Lifestyle choices? Find out below.
Lazy Jack
For the full text:
http://thanksforthelaughs.wordpress.com/2009/11/0...
I actually agree with this, the car insurance analogy is false. And the basic premise of forcing everyone to buy insurance is a sham, just another giveaway to the industry. The insurance industry is guaranteed to get $20-30 billion out of this deal. it's no wonder they support the bill. That's where the right-wing sheeple take a wrong turn. They fall into the "socialism" cliche without realizing that this is just another example of Congress writing bills for industry. Both parties do it, just in different ways. If there's any socialism it's the corporate kind.
States require proof of financial responsibility if you use PUBLIC roads. How can the Feds require PRIVATE health insurance to access PRIVATE healthcare? I don't remember seeing that in the constitution.
Obama says, "if you have the ability to buy insurance, it’s affordable and you choose not to do so, forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you…"
This is a problem of socialism, not liberty and free markets. If I get sick it is my responsibility to deal with it, no one else's.
You're right, what we have is really closer associated with fascism. But the end goal is still the Marxist utopia.
Yes, corporate fascism by controlling Congress through money. And both parties are enablers.
How would a public option be fair ?? Tell me….
Does the government pay property taxes? Does the government pay Corporate taxes? These are just two things that private companies must pay …. so how again would a government option be the same? Sounds like the "RATS" in Congress have a hand up… also when will the government follow the same rules as a private company .. in other words if they go over what they say will the (the government file bankrupcty?)
Hell no they will just print more money and take us deepr into debt…. VOTE THEM OUT PEOPLE !!!!!
I know, I know … common sense thing again….
Car insurance is mandated in order to cover the costs of stuff you, the driver, damage with your vehicle. I can get whatever coverage I want for myself, from none to buy-me-a-new-maserati-when-i-get-a-dent. I don't have a choice when it comes to liability coverage, however.
What bothers me the most though, is that the government is selective with its car insurance analogy. Drivers who engage in dangerous driving behaviors pay more for car insurance, but people who engage in activities that are dangerous to their health should only pay what a healthy person pays. Just as someone with 30 speeding tickets costs more to insure, so too, do diabetics, smokers, the elderly, women of childbearing age…
Case in point. Take your average woman, 18-40, and compare her healthcare consumption to that of a man, 18-40. Most men wait for their pain scale to go up to 11 before they see a doctor, or they're dragged to the urgent care, unwillingly, by their wives.
Making everyone pay the same is anything but fair. It's either unfair to the healthy people who have to pay the same price as a geriatric diabetic smoker with a family history of heart disease, or it's unfair to the insurance companies which will all go bankrupt (even though they're too big to fail) by insuring the aformentioned at the price of a healthy male, 18-40.
I wonder, if this scam passes into law, the next time I get stopped for a traffic violation, and have to show my drivers license and proof of automobile insurance, are they going to ask for my proof of health insurance, and if I don't have it will they impound my truck, seize my dog, and haul me off to the hoosegow, or will they do it in a more orderly fashion, and just have Purple and Red shirted thugs go door to door, like Census Takers?
The problem with such a lawsuit is that it would probably work its way up to the Supreme Court. And we ALL know how they are likely to act, being less than concerned with their stated job and all.
I think there should be some sort os check on the Supreme Court, where it is possible to boycott the court's decision. Jackson did it with the Cherokee, and if somebody could do it for such a horrific cause, I think it should be OK for those of us with legitimate gripes to do so.
True that Facists governments use capitalist organization to control the people. The trains ran on time under Musilini, the cost was only FREEDOM Liberals please wake up the latte is brewing
somehow, someway, these freedom stealing piles of feces have got to be stopped. they are systemically stealing from my children and grand children. the audacity of their arrogance absolutely boggles my mind. it's been 'progressing' for basically 100 years folks. we are at a fork in the road. to the right is individual freedom and to the left is economic slavery. drop what you are doing and get engaged. nothing is more important, because without your freedom what else truly matters?
The whole car insurance analogy falls apart on just one point: You have to buy car insurance to protect the other drivers. Health insurance is about you. I'm surprised this point wasn't included in this article.
If you're under the impression that this ever-encroaching federal government is solely the fault of "liberals," then it's you who needs to wake up.
SHHHHH…Don't give them any ideas!
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hey barrak…life insurance vs car insurance?….'member the declaration's …"endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights which include life, liberty etc…"….not necessarily auto ownership or the right to drive…how's that twisted logic workin'?
The other problem with the auto insurance analogy is that the states require that you have insurance to protect the person that you get into an accident with. In other words, the law is designed to protect the person that you hit in an accident caused by your negligence. The mandatory insurance laws are designed to protect the public.
"If this passes, it’s time for a class action lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of such a mandate."
YEAH! AND it should be so easy a caveman can do it. Just like huge DNC donor hack owner of Progressive Insurance tells it.
The states require of financial proof responsibility to DRIVE a car, not own one. I this case, the Gov. wants to require you buy insurance just because your alive.
hey professor BO….biden was right when he said YOU'D be tested…how ironic is that?…bet you can't wait for the end of this semester.
Well JPA, you're of course correct it's not an "only liberal" problem, BUT… the GOP has very rarely ever championed Government girth/waste/taxes without lots of help from the Dems who ALWAYS push that direction.
We need more proper conservatives in Congress and, well all the Federal Branches. Too much big government, but a massive government is a state of mind for 99% of Dems and probably 10% of Repubs. Your mileage may vary. Vote 'em out in 2010 in any event!!!
How is this not unconstitutional? And if it is then how is it that Obama isn’t being impeached? Isn’t the oath that a POTUS swears on inaguration day to uphold the constitution of the US?
No one says soley, but primarily, and now almost totally becasue progressive thought is at it's core a facist ideology.
Sorry JPA some corporations like GE are truly evil because they will wide whatever the current facist flavor of the month is to make money. They don't come up with these progressive ideas, they just use them.
Capitalism itself has made peoples lives better, not worse, if you believe that's not true then revoke your citizenship and move to china.
Well, how long will it take for a large group of us to organize and fight back by refusing to insure with the government? I know this is just a thought experiment, but if say 50,000 or so citizens publicly said no and forced the government to jail us, wouldn't the system notice? AND once you have me mad enough to go to jail for health care, how long before I refuse to pay taxes to the federal government and how long before others join me ?
I know, it's daunting and not likely, but that's the next step. A good question for the President: How many citizens are you prepared to throw into jail and while they're in jail for health care evasion, do they get medical care? And when they're let out, how do you compel them to pay… jail again and again?
I don't know why anyone on the talk shows etc. don't go after this false analogy, there have been plenty of opportunities.
I am not at all convinced that most americans can think past this and am discouraged that hardly anyone challenges the left on it.
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If the government is determining who is eligible for the privilege of life-saving medical treatments, then they basically are going to decide who receives the privilege to live. Ugh! Want to scream!
Oh and Ill add one other difference, the part of the insurance you MUST purchase when driving a car is in case you do something directly to someone else, you are still free to destroy your own property as you see fit.
In the case of health insurance this is your body but apparently the government thinks they own that.
As the author points out the requirement for catastrophic insurance, coupled with refusal to treat anyone for free for anything else would solve the financial "harm" done to others overnight, so it's not their intention to solve that issue.
Very good point. How would they enforce it?
Isnt it odd that the same people that wail about "choice" when it comes to having an abortion are on quite the opposite side when it comes to what you do with your own body.
If the Pro-Choicers had any intellectual or ideological integrity at all they would be up in arms about forcing people to have health insurance, what's next will we forced to use it, then forced to have certain procedures?
1984 has arrived, it's just 25 years late.
Requiring people to buy health insurance under threat of fines and/or imprisonment is a terrible idea. Call your Senators and let them know what you think.
Their contact info is available at congress.org
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I don't want MANDATORY car insurance either! Mandatory car insurance does not work either. Illegal aliens do not buy mandatory car insurance. If hit by an illegal alien the police officer will tell the illegal alien to go on their way — no report, no nothing.
Criminals do not obey laws.
Oh and Ill add one other difference, the part of the insurance you MUST purchase when driving a car is in case you do something directly to someone else which the author mentions, but what is implied is that you are still free to destroy your own property as you see fit.
In the case of health insurance it use to be your body but apparently the government thinks they own that and they want to force you to keep it in good working order.
Welcome to 1984 ideology, it was delayed 25 years by the Regan revolution but apparently it's ready to make up for the lost time.
I agree that Democrats have generally been more at fault in growing federal power, but that's not the case anymore. Especially since 9/11, we have had a Republican party dominated by "neoconservatives" who push for big government in the interest of war and imperialism. That's big government, too. They were largely responsible for gutting the 4th amendment and pushing more and more money into the bloated military-industrial complex. Both parties benefit from the warfare/welfare state.
I would argue that Democrats have been more resistant to big government by trying to protect civil liberties.
I agree we need more true conservatives in Congress like Ron Paul. True conservatives, as well as being fiscally responsible (also recognizing the ills of the Federal Reserve), oppose excessive foreign intervention (like the Iraq invasion fraud), and protect civil liberties by opposing such things as warrantless wiretapping (which took away oversight of the executive). Both parties have been equally complicit in allowing executive power to manifest.
Do people without home ownership have to have fire insurance?
"This is a problem of socialism, not liberty and free markets. If I get sick it is my responsibility to deal with it, no one else's. "
Exactly.
I agree that giant corporations like GE will use whatever flavor to further their interest, which is why they give money equally to both parties. See above about how both parties are responsible for furthering this quasi-fascist state we're moving to.
Please spare me the "move to China" cliches. Capitalism is useful, but the way we've gone about it under the dictum of fractional reserve banking and fiat currency is abhorrent.
Lol, you ain't kidding!
Right… but even then, they don't require insurance. The health care bill requires insurance. Even if you're stinking rich and can pay any bill you get… you have to buy health insurance.
Aagain I agree. It isn't about heathcare or their deep concern for us.
IF THIS IS TRUELY ABOUT THE WELFARE OF THE PEOPLE, I THINK WE SHOULD ALL HAVE THE SAME HEALTHCARE PROGRAM THE POLITICIANS HAVE. THE WHOLE NATION. THERE, PROBLEM SOLVED. I think the people should be pressing this issue.
Car Insurance companies charge men more.
The health care bill explicitly prohibits charging women more (even though they cost more…)
The real difference between car insurance and health insurance is that car insurance is used to protect others from your actions. I don't know of any state that absolutely requires you to buy anything more than liability insurance.
But the ostensible purpose of the mandatory health insurance is to protect you, whether you want to be protected or not.
JPA … You have begun to wake up. We conservatives know that the Republican party is not the solution, unless we can change the party's direction. Now, it's up to good, hard-working, patriotic Democrats to wake up and realize the same.
The coming sweep of congress cannot happen unless both sides put aside partisanship and realize that WE THE PEOPLE must work together to reclaim our country from the tyranny of unaccountable government, but demonstrating to that government that they ARE in fact accountable.
The car analogy isn't entirely wrong.
This is, afterall, just another Cash for Clunkers program.
I have only one major bone to pick with ya there…. "neo-cons". That's a red-flag for me. Bush '43 was NOT a conservative. Never ran as one really. He was always about bridging the gap and mending fences. The Left and the press labeled him a neo-con. He was compassionate conservative… remember? What that hell does that imply about the rest of us that are just regular conservatives?
The conservative in the administration was Dick Cheney and had he not signed on to run as VP, I don't think a lot of conservatives would have supported Bush. Almost all of the gut- calls that were made that rang true with conservatives ( my guess ) came from careful council with the VP.
President Bush was domestically a big government, big tent republican. He was forced into a foreign policy he had no idea was coming before it happened and he and his administration reacted. Now we can debate on and on about right or wrong or mishandled , etc, but he acted and tried to honor our military with desire to win once engaged.
I think President Bush was ill-served by many, many, liberals and realists in State, DOJ, DOD, CIA and even in the executive appointments. But you know…. it's always like that. Washington itself is a damaged entity and there is a power-class that must be addressed as, regardless of administration changes, profits and gains power at our expense at every turn of the worm. And I then there was the relentless press…. no let up for 7 years…. until they got their boy elected.
I don't think Ron Paul is a serious option. Many good points, but his foreign policy views are a no-go for me.
[...] the rest here: Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … November 11th, 2009 | Tags: because-most, bills-require, buy-car, downplays-the, [...]
9. Can't buy car insurance AFTER you have an accident and expect it to cover the accident.
10. "There's a thousand dollar hidden tax" … so an outright unhidden tax is better?
Yes, this whole thing pisses me off – BUT, if people took personal responsibiltiy for their health – eating right, getting exercise, you know – all the blah, blah, blah that everyone just ignores…
Take personal responsibilty for your health. You see what happens when you don't.
Carole
RebelWithaFork.com
Healthcare Scam……
If we don't buy Auto Insurance we have options, Walk, Ride Bicycle, Bus, Taxi, Hitch Hike, but Incarceration and/or Fines are not an option. With HusseinCare, if we don't buy we have NO options and we face Incarceration and/or Fines. I have heard and read on Blogs people using this comparison and it Moronic.
Bottom line……..NO where in the Constitution does it allow for Hussein and his Posse of Clowns to impose this HealthCare Scam on the US Citizens.
(If this passes, it’s time for a class action lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of such a mandate. Courtesy of Greg Knapp)
"Neoconservative" can probably best be exemplified by Bill Kristol and his cohorts at the Weekly Standard. They will readily tell you that more central government power (and spending) is necessary to achieve their goals of making war and pursing imperialistic agenda (like Iraq). Dick Cheney is most definitely a neoconservative while Bush was a figurehead. Look up his association with PNAC (Project for a New American Century). IMO, Dick Cheney had a devastating effect on this country.
i never liked the logic of the govt. forcing me to buy auto insurance, now that they got their foot in the door, the old slippery slope, we got Obama justifying the govt. forcing us to buy his health care crap with the logic…its just like car insurance. We should be free not to buy car insurance and not to buy health insurance.
My guess would be that they will enforce it every April 15th. Prove it on your income tax return – and if you don't prove it – the fines are applied right then and there.
They do it now with Student Loans, child support arrears, etc.
I’m figuring that they will have to build alot of new jails! Passive resistance of this horrible healthcare bill will require them to do so. The government can’t take what you don’t have. Don’t keep any money in any bank. Raise your W4 to the highest you can (I believe you can claim 10). Inotherwords, change your daily business activities. If you have any stocks/bonds-sell them off and hide the cash.
"Accountable." You nailed it. Elected officials already know that they are accountable to their constituents and not big business. Only they haven't performed in the best interest of the people for generations. The current politcal climate (tea parties etc.) is swinging the pendulum back the other way. We need to keep that momentum going. We need to continue to exert pressure.
And you are absolutely right on the money that voters of both parties need to demand reform in their parties or they will be voted out of office.
Most politicians go after their positions because of the power they will have and the money that power and influence will bring them. I guarantee you that they also understand that if they are not re-elected all of it is gone. They will behave like the obedient mutts we need them to be if they know we will tug on that choke collar or worse yet, kick them to the curb. Bad dog!!!
[...] from: Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … By admin | category: car insurance | tags: because-most, car insurance, [...]
Comparing mandatory car insurance to mandatory health insurance is like comparing Ronald Reagan to the moron that is in office now…
they already have "camps" built all over the nation that are unused. Some can hold over a million…
But I'm just being paraniod, right?
"we are at a fork in the road. to the right is individual freedom and to the left is economic slavery. drop what you are doing and get engaged. nothing is more important, because without your freedom what else truly matters?"
Want to start a "group" at school or try to get people motivated. But I'm not sure what to do or where to start..
What does it mean "to allow health insurance to be sold across state lines"? Does this mean replacing state regulation of insurance with Federal regulation? How is this good for people who now have health insurance? How does it improve the health care system? Who benefits if state regulation of health insurance is pre-empted by Federal regulation?
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Obama and Pelosi only speak "The Party" message.
if my name were hussien and i wanted to distroy AMERICA how would i do it? simple from within….bankrupt the country…the end
car insurance, health insurance it's ALL about "protecting" the public. the left keeps using this arguement and they will continue to use it because it works, it worked with the income tax, it worked with Social Security, it worked with Medicaid/Medicare, it worked with car insurance and it eventually works for everything because we as a culture have changed from loving freedom and liberty to loving safety and security.
we will choke to death on safety and security.
if they can force you to buy one thing for the "public" good, they can force you to buy anything.
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No, you're not paranoid. Here's something else people need to be aware of:
Because the US is bankrupt and once the dollar is worth zero (we're getting there quick under BHO) we will be forced into a new currency. What will happen is that those who have worked hard and actually have some financial wealth will have a cap put on the amount of $$$ they can exchange for the new currency. (Example – Say you have saved $500,000 during your lifetime, but the govt. allows you to exchange only upto $200,000 into the new currency, you have just had 60% of your wealth stolen from you by the govt.)
I only know this because I'm a first generation AMERICAN (in my 40's) and have heard stories from family.
Unless you live where I do, in which case your car is impounded on the spot if you are caught driving without liability insurance, illegal alien or citizen alike.
It all comes back to the concept that your freedoms only extend so far as to where the next person's begin. You damage me with your car, you are responsible, so liability insurance is required. I don't have a problem with that, since I've seen what happens when someone with no insurance hits you.
I DO have a problem with being told that I have to buy health insurance when they're planning on drastically increasing my premiums at the same time, and forcing me to pay to cover every smoker, drinker, obese person, and suicidal freak out there. It's completely the OPPOSITE of auto insurance. Auto insurance laws are to KEEP you from having to pay for those who make bad decisions. This health insurance plan is going to FORCE you to pay for those who make bad decisions.
I'll buy mandated government health insurance when obama is man enough to make me.
so when he is ready to put on his big boy panties he is more than welcome to try.
OK, here's what I suggest that those of us who are going to end up being responsible for paying for this nightmare do:
1) The day that this monstrosity passes, we all declare ourselves "exempt" on our W-4 forms – no more money going into the federal coffers.
2) Refuse to purchase insurance AND refuse to pay the fine for not doing so.
3) Allow ourselves to go to jail.
4) Live off of the Government's dole – after all, in jail we'd all get 3 square meals a day, a bed and a toilet, government-issued clothes, and FREE HEALTHCARE (don't you just LOVE irony?)!!!!!!! Plus, our civil rights would guarantee that we be allowed to watch TV, play cards, use the prison library, etc.
5) Use our time in the pokey studying Constitutional Law and filing nuisance suits to either get the healthcare legislation declared unconstitutional or to find a way to impeach President Utopia (and the attorneys would ALSO be free….).
Frankly, I don't think that the administration has thought this far ahead; they aren't going to have enough room in their prisons for all of us -
Last January I was hit by a drunk driver, who stole the car, and needless to say, he had no insurance. I may as well have burnt my $500 deductible..that was the guys FOURTH DUI and second stolen car in less than a year. I, being the responisble driver I am, have car insurance, and the insurance company went after him…and got nothing. So when this stupid bill becomes law, it will no longer matter how repsonsible you are…because the irresponsible @-holes will still get their health insurance….and another thing, has anyone been turned down health care due to NOT having insurance? In college, I didn't have insurance, and the doctors office was kind enough to bill me, and even take monthly payments…oops…more responsibilty on my part…so, no matter if the state MANDATES that you have car insurance, PLENTY of people still drive without it….
Just today I saw this link on Linkiest (John Hawkin's link site). Essentially, the article is about a liberal supporter of Obama and national health care admitting it is about making the middle class dependent on the government.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704...
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The CBO concluded that the House health care bill would cost $1.2 trillion with the mandate provision in place. How much will it cost if the Supreme Court declares the mandate provision unconstitutional? With 4 liberals and 4 conservatives on the court, the decision depends upon how Justice Kennedy views the case.
[...] See original here: Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … [...]
Here's the fundamental issue I see with the author's logic. If someone elects to not buy car insurance, yet persists to drive and then gets in an accident with me, I (or my insurance company) has legal recourse to pursue reparations from the uninsured driver. In the case of an uninsured individual who has a medical problem, I and other insured individuals often pay for the individual to get emergency medical care. Unlike the case of car insurance, I have no legal recourse to persue reparations, even though the uninsured patient is harming me (and most of you) economically.
Until someone can guarantee me that I won't be subsidizing uninsured medical patients, then I absolutely think it defensible to require everybody be insured.
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perfect analogy- may i borrow it? lol
exactly right, the Law can not force ppl to behave responsibly no more than it can force ppl to behave morally.
if you advocate for government mandates for any kind of commerical product then you are a corporatist, more commonly known as a Facist.
you can't have your cake and eat it to, it's one or the other, either the government can mandate you or it can't, there is no "well in this case yes, but in this case no".
if you support the government mandate on car insurance you can not make a logical arguement against a government mandate on health insurance.
the Law can not force ppl to behave responsibly no more than it can force ppl to behave morally.
if you advocate for government mandates for any kind of commerical product then you are a corporatist, more commonly known as a Facist.
you can't have your cake and eat it to, it's one or the other, either the government can mandate you or it can't, there is no "well in this case yes, but in this case no".
if you support the government mandate on car insurance you can not make a logical arguement against a government mandate on health insurance.
[...] read a great write-up about Obama’s favorite way of justifying strict penalties for not buying health insurance [...]
The bottomfeeders on the left continue to use the auto insurance analogy because their minds are dulled by too much coke, listening air america, or taking too many social studies course in college (if they ever went there.)
[...] more here: Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … Health, Uncategorized [...]
Yipster, above wrote:
Well, how long will it take for a large group of us to organize and fight back by refusing to insure with the government? I know this is just a thought experiment, but if say 50,000 or so citizens publicly said no and forced the government to jail us, wouldn’t the system notice? AND once you have me mad enough to go to jail for health care, how long before I refuse to pay taxes to the federal government and how long before others join me ?
I love this idea. My wife and I are uninsured and have decided that we will refuse to buy a policy from Obama and will refuse to pay the fine. We especially won’t buy a policy because now it it likely to include abortion coverage. We will not associate ourselves with killing other people. If the law say you can kill your kid, then I guess I can’t stop that. I can’t even stop my tax dollars from being used. But if I have a choice, like refusing to buy a policy that will mean the death of children, I won’t buy it. I agree with above poster: if several tens of thousands of citizen refuse to buy and refuse to pay the fine, then the government will have to imprison tens of thousands of its own citizens. I just don’t think the public, as a whole (I’m even think some “progressives” will be with us, will want to spend billions of dollars imprisoning their fellow citizen who want to fight against Obama and his henchmen.
Except risky sexual practices are just fine with them, otherwise they would have shut down the brothels and bathhouses years ago,
One thing that noone seems to comment on is that the socialists in the government trying to take away our freedom ASSUME that people without insurance would be a burden if they got sick.
I am sure that many people who are paying off their medical debts on a monthly basis would be angry to hear they are so irresponsible.
Let's not forget that I am sure Bill Gates and people in his bracket don't have insurance.
Completely random point: Is my monitor screwed up, or does Barry look really orange in that picture? Seriously, he looks like he should be helping make Wonka Bars.
Oh yeah. While they will be denying treatment to fat people–even treatments unrelated to weight–AIDS cocktails will not be rationed. Neither will abortions.
It's for the good of the collective.
Yes, that's how it's written into the bill.
The IRS with access to health care records–what could go wrong?
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Shauna Greene and Georgette Bauer, DishNetwork Business. DishNetwork Business said: Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance Is Not the Same as Mandatory Car Insurance http://bit.ly/u9MeF [...]
Even the auto insurance mandate should be challenged as unconstitutional. Mandates drive up costs and act as a regressive tax on the young and low-income. (And we are told that the left doesn't support regressive taxes on low-income people).
Furthermore, if insurance cannot be purchased across state lines because of excessive regulation, then this should disqualify Congress from being able to regulate and mandate insurance purchases, since insurance does not involve interstate commerce.
Mandatory car insurance is welfare for both the insurance company AND bad drivers (including illegal aliens). The rates are now based NOT on the individual driver's records but on the records of all the other drivers in the neighborhood where he lives. And how many people are rich enough to "self-insure?"
Accidents happen on the road. Some people are insured; others are not insured (illegal aliens). When you get on the road, you knowingly take the risk of getting into an accident. So when you finally do get into one, why should you force someone else to pay for the damages? You CHOSE to drive, regardless of the risks!
Mandatory universal health care, just like mandatory liability insurance, would be welfare for the "new" insurance companies: government contractors. It would also be welfare for health-care parasites, including illegal aliens.
States, not the federal government, mandate car insurance, mainly to cover liability to others. If you want comprehensive auto, to cover damages to yourself, it costs more. But no auto insurance I know of covers routine maintenance, rotating tires, oil changes, or buying gas every time you pull in to a station. If it did, you could not afford it. We can’t afford this health care bill.
[...] See the rest here: Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … [...]
11. The requirement for car insurance (or possibly a comparable surety) is a STATE, not a FEDERAL requirement, in line with the U.S. Constitution.
is OBOT dumber than utterly stupid, or does he consider his supporters dumber than utterly stupid
CAR INSURANCE GOES WITH THE CAR !
NEVER THE PERSON driving or the one "sitting" in the passenger seat or asleep in the back seat!
HOWEVER<
So desperate to rape the legal citizens of the USA, OBAMA-PELOSI and the corrupt criminal czars will
fine, tax anyone or anything, and probably put the cars in jail too.
HEY This is their job creating plan, build more jails!
YOU can drive your parents car, (we assume they have auto insurance of some type)
and personally never have to purchase auto insurance!
HOW GULLIBLE are the OBOTS ?
[...] Perez Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance Is Not the Same as Mandatory Car Insurance http://biggovernment.com/2009…; #tcot #teaparty 43 minutes [...]
[...] care” bills require every American to buy insurance … as he downplays the fact that if you don’t buy health insurance you will eventually be sent to prison … I’m thinking it’s a pretty big question for people who don’t want to buy health [...]
THis is the problem with what he was saying above. What bothers me the most though, is that the government is selective with its car insurance analogy. Drivers who engage in dangerous driving behaviors pay more for car insurance, but people who engage in activities that are dangerous to their health should only pay what a healthy person pays.
[...] the original: Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … November 11th, 2009 | Tags: because-most, bills-require, buy-car, buy-insurance, downplays-the, [...]
The Chosen One uses the terms Health INSURANCE and Health CARE as if they are the same. When will the "Journalists" call him out on it?
I did not own a car so I did not have to have any auto insurance. I bought a car, and to get a license tag I had to show proof of insurance. When I asked my insurance agent what my co-pay and out of pocket expense would be for my vehicle's annual checkup and wellness maintenance, he laughed me out of his office.
Barry needs to get a better analogy. This one ain't working!
maklp…..You and I shall pay to the grave, those to weak minded to support themselves…….
[...] post: Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … Share and [...]
So will that also mean that anyone visiting the US will have to buy some type of medical insurance, to cover any costs for emergency medical care incurred while visiting?
Plus, you could drive without insurance for years if you're lucky enough not to get caught. But we all have to file tax returns every year and that's how they intend on enforce the mandate.
What they are doing is very unconstitutional..and corrupt!!..I don't know about any of you, but I don't need any supreme court telling me how to interpret the Constitution, I ask you! are we not slaves already? I do believe its time to take our country back!! What do any of you think about it?
So they will jail anyone who is actually working and paying into the system via taxes but does not want to but health insurance while using that taxpayers money to provide health insurance for the “poor”. That means if they jail enough of us…who will pay the bills? I pray they have to find out…if we do not get these liberal freaks out of office in 2010 and get common sense representation in place we are doomed as a country. Why do they not seem concerned that they will be voted out of office? What plans are being hatched by this administration and congress to deny us our freedom? How the hell do we stop them?
[...] Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance …: The One is claiming it’s no biggie .. http://biggovernment.com/2009…; 1 hour [...]
Pelosi stated that there will be no limit on what the insurance company has to pay out for anyone but there will be a limit and cap on what they can charge us…not sure about any of you but my checkbook never balances when I pay out more than I put in…how many jobs will be lost when insurance companies go bankrupt and how many of you have 401K stock that is based on insurance companies…we have not seen hell like we will see with this type of bill.
[...] Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance …: The One is claiming it’s no biggie .. http://biggovernment.com/2009…; 36 minutes [...]
cl…did you see f/n with (love it) fwank…fwanket and i don't know what a pot plant looks like. i thought high-times was required reading for democraps?
Actually, there are more differences.
The car insurance law only applies to those who have a car. Children don't have to have this.
ObamaCare would put children in prison? Or their parents for not buying this insurance?
And we do forget that the government already mandates us to have insurance. Or did anyone forget SOCIAL SECURITY? I still am trying to find out how I can be exempt from Social Security taxation without giving up being employed.
[...] the original post: Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … Share and [...]
…what?…and if we don't eat up all our food or pick up all our clothes Big Jan napolitano is gonna sit on us?…or waxman is going to tickle us with his rat whiskers till we tinkle?
[...] Original post: Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … [...]
Additionally, auto insurance covers the risk to the financier of the auto also…place that into the perspective of how laws are enforced and you get a clearer picture of who's interest is actually being protected. Notably, the one's with the greatest risk of finincial loss. Who can you think of that stands to loose the most money covering the uninsured. Give that some deep thought…hint: It's not the one's writing the legislation, but they're linked.
Ah, another conservative demonstrates why they can sometimes be a greater threat to liberty than its enemies.
Here’s your clue, Knapp: “Forcing” and “mandating” are the goddamn same. What we are forced to do is immaterial; it is the forcing itself which is immoral, and which is the common essential characteristic unifying the two examples.
As for your stupid counterarguments, they illustrate the sort of confused “thinking” that necesarily follows from the inability (or refusal) to grasp the principle involved.
1. Everybody doesn’t have to buy car insurance. You can choose not to drive and then you don’t need to buy the insurance.
You can also choose not to live. The problem is that the government has no moral right to force us to make the choice.
2. The only way to avoid mandatory health insurance will be to stop breathing. Our federal government has never required us to buy something just to exist in America.
You can emigrate. Forgotten “love it or leave it” already, conservative?
3. Driving is a privilege, Living and breathing is a right.
Papers (driver’s license) please?
There are no “privileges” in a free society. The Founders understood that, and tried to forestall this sort of compromise via the Ninth and Tenth Amendments… but that view of the Amendments gets in the way of certain goals for conservatives as well as the Left, so the two “sides” are unified in attacking such a view.
4. You can choose liability coverage only for your car. Government will mandate what’s covered in your health insurance.
Take a good look at state laws governing car insurance; the particulars vary, but governments nevertheless do set terms and limits in auto insurance policies too (e.g. legal coverage minimums).
The analogy with car insurance is sound. The Left understands this better than you do, Knapp; they know that mandated car insurance further establishes the precedence of government dictating to individuals. In much the same way that the military draft paves the way for other forms of involuntary servitude, mandated car insurance facilitates mandating other forms of insurance.
The *proper* use of the argument is to argue against mandates, period — if it’s wrong in health insurance, it’s wrong in car insurance too. But since you don’t object to mandatory car insurance — and therefore, are not opposed to coercion **on principle** — this weak tea is all you have left.
With pragmatic “defenders” like this, what use does liberty have for its enemies?
Were does the fifth amendment fall into this crap.
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"The President said that he didn’t think the question over the appropriateness of possible jail time is the “biggest question” the House and Senate are facing right now."
– How can we fix the health care crisis? Oh I know, lets make it illegal to not have insurance, there will be no repercussions for that.
[...] Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … [...]
[...] Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance Is Not the Same as Mandatory Car Insurance – http://biggovernment.com/2009…; 1 hour [...]
[...] Archive & Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance Is Not the Same as Mandatory Car Insurance – http://biggovernment.com/2009…; 1 hour [...]
[...] See original here: Big Government » Blog Archive » Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance … [...]
I know, we could make him prove he is a citizen my making him show us the real birth certificate, if he has one! When he gets impeached, all the crap he has passed gets repealed. I still cannot believe he bullshitted his way into the Presidency. He is an illegal alien who overstayed his foreign student visa!!
[...] Forcing Us to Buy Health Insurance Is Not the Same as Mandatory Car Insurance [...]
[...] For those who work on their own, you and Pelosi and Reid should be ashamed that they will be fined or even imprisoned if they don’t buy health insurance. What country do you think this is? Shame on you Mr. President. Shame on all of you in [...]
[...] yourself you must buy health insurance in 2010 or be fined and if you don’t pay go to jail. “>http://biggovernment.com/2009/11/11/forcing-us-to-buy-health-insurance-is-not-the-same-as…. To those of you with friends and relatives unemployed, think about how it will be getting much [...]