Since Romney Is Willing to Consider a VAT, Should Libertarians and Conservatives Be Willing to Consider Him?
by Dan MitchellThere’s been a lot of discussion about Mitt Romney’s appeal – or lack thereof – among supporters of limited government.
To put it mildly, many libertarians and conservatives are underwhelmed by his less-than-stellar record on healthcare, his weakness on Social Security reform, his anemic list of proposed budget savings, and his reprehensible support for ethanol subsidies.
Notwithstanding this dismal track record, some advocates of free markets argue that anybody would be better than Obama.
But that’s not necessarily the case. Economic history shows that the burden of government often expands the most under Republicans, with Nixon and Bush (either one) being obvious examples.
On the other hand, even a skeptic like me has admitted that Romney’s record in Massachusetts is difficult to assess because he was governor of a very left-wing state and he had to deal with a state legislature with heavy Democratic majorities.
That being said, there’s a new development that suggests Romney may be an unacceptable alternative to Obama. In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, he basically said he is willing to consider a value-added tax for the United States. Here’s the relevant passage.
He says he doesn’t “like the idea” of layering a VAT onto the current income tax system. But he adds that, philosophically speaking, a VAT might work as a replacement for some part of the tax code, “particularly at the corporate level,” as Paul Ryan proposed several years ago. What he doesn’t do is rule a VAT out.
For those who are not familiar with a VAT, it is a version of a national sales tax, but imposed at every stage in the production process and embedded in the price of goods and services. Perhaps more important, it is despised by everyone who wants to limit the size of government. This video explains how it works and why it is a money machine for big government.
Simply stated, this is an awful tax. If it ever gets implemented in the United States, the battle will be over. America will descend to European-style stagnation, eventually leading to fiscal crisis.
Any politician that supports a VAT (or even hints at supporting a VAT) should not be allowed anywhere near the White House. That applies to Mitt Romney. And it should be the rule for Paul Ryan as well.
But what about Barack Obama, you may be asking. Hasn’t he said nice things about a VAT?
Not surprisingly, he has been sympathetic, appointing VAT sympathizers to high office and remarking that a VAT is “something that has worked for other countries.”
But there’s no way a VAT will happen if Obama gets reelected. Republicans will be overwhelmingly opposed, even if only for shallow reasons of partisanship.
But if Romney wins and decides to push a VAT, many Republicans will say yes because of loyalty (much as many GOPers went along with Bush’s statist agenda) and many Democrats will say yes in order to get a new source of revenue to expand government.
The consequences, as explained here, would be disastrous.
P.S. For a humorous – but accurate – perspective on the VAT, take a look at these clever cartoons (here, here, and here).







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NO! He is still deep in bed with NWO types…and that is as disturbing as his flip flopping on so many things!
He is a 'pretender' AND a 'fence sitter'…
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/09/mitt-romney-b...
And his foreign policy advisors…are we getting more of the same ol’…same ol’?
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/mitt-romney-ann...
And how many of these ‘advisors’ are on the membership list of the CFR?
http://www.cfr.org/about/membership/roster.html?l...
Eileen I have begun referring to Romney as Obama White. And I really don't care who thinks that's racist
I'd consider Romney. If he'd just be honest and admit he's a 'moderate democrat'.
I would consider, then vote for anyone other than him and Obama the other democrat running this time.
I'm sorry, did I miss something? If Romney wins the nomination, it seems to me that two Democrats will be seeking the office of POTUS.
Well, you know that's all fine and good as Eileen points out as well, but come on!
Are we that wrapped around the axil of nit pickiness at this point to say, "Oh no no no, we cant have that, better to have another four years of Marxist lunacy ? Please lets have 4 more years of screwing over the constitution from Obama ?? "
Really ? Lets get real!
Sorry to disappoint all you squabblers, but let me tell you, if its Obama or Romney, I'm going for Romney in a heartbeat.
Well considering the current tax system already closely resembles a VAT tax, the headline presents a false premise. A better question would be, " If Romney would abolish the income tax, and leave in the redundant layered tax system in place now, should Libertarians and Conservatives vote for him?"
The other problem with the premise is, conservatives as well as libertarians KNOW Romney aint it, NOR is NEWTCAKE.
SO the conundrum is, do conservatives and libertarians swallow their principles, AGAIN, and vote for the guy that stinks the least? Or do, we finally tell all the pundits that are telling us who to vote for, to go suck it, and pull the lever for the person that most closely has a track record of Walking the Talk, instead of listening to all the beltway BLOWHARDS, like Rush, Levin, ROVE, Hannity. Sadly a major portion of the electorate will do the prior.
I know that will rub some people wrong, but one thing needs to be considered when listening to these pundits, THEY ARE GETTING PAID.
So if that rubs you wrong, I am sorry, truth doesn't always wear a pretty red skirt.
IMO any candidate that doesn't talk about drastically shrinking the beast in DC, is not on the list PERIOD,
moreover, any potential candidate should have a plan in place, and be able to articulate that plan, clearly and
abundantly.
Repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results, defines insanity
I know, this voter is asking for a lot.
VATs are particularly destructive in a nation of middlemen like ours. We don't do much manufacturing, but are involved in the distribution and marketing of goods from other countries.
And Friedman's Ratchet Effect takes hold whenever you add a tax.
If 9-9-9 was bad news, a VAT is even worse, because at least Herman wanted to throw out the old tax code. Mitt looks to pile VAT on top.
Only fools will pay a VAT tax, or vote for Romney for that matter.
Bring on the black market.
O/T
Today on the Eve of Christmas I lay down a challenge for all of the billionaire liberals like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Oprah Winfrey and Mark Bezos…
Raise up your riches to encourage PRIVATE entrepreneurs, use your wealth to create 50 NEW BUSINESSES EACH in 2012 through no interest loans or seed grants to young people to fore-go college in favor of starting a business.
Challenge them to be original, challenge them to grow, challenge them to succeed and you will do far better than giving away your riches to dependence based charities that feed the state at the expense of liberty.
You hold all of the capital but those who can succeed are being repressed by your vain quest for adulation.
Make more millionaires and billionaires and fewer people will beg your tender mercies.
Feeding people is fine but teaching people to feed themselves has far greater long term value.
Teach independence and your services will eventually no longer be required, do the right thing and good things will happen for all.
Step up, be counted for your efforts to teach prosperity or be discredited for your efforts to enslave the less fortunate to your "tender" mercies…
Its not racist, although it does border on something less than lucid.
Why are US progressives 30 years out of date with EU and Canadian progressives? They already TRIED the VAT. It causes more problems and it most certainly isn't solving their current collapse problems.
What is so hard to understand that if you give gov more money it just create more debt and more problems. Why would anyone give a country that has blown $15 tril more money. That is insane.
I think not.
I am not afraid to say that not one Republican candidate is acceptable to me. And I will bet you I am not alone in that opinion.
To my "Big" friends:
Have a wonderful, meaningful Christmas.
Sing some carols. Don't stress out over things that are unimportant
Enjoy the presence of those you love.
And know that you are loved.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Missy….YOU ROCK! And I don't believe you are even one little bit off thread. Your common sense and logic are exactly what this country needs….More than ever. Merry Christmas friend!
Ron Paul 2012
In many ways Romney is more Liberal than Obama
Poor people don't create jobs, PRIVATE INDUSTRY does.
Make a millionaire create twenty jobs, make a dependent kill fifty….
Stupid proglodytes will never get it because they're more worried about where the next high comes from.
He's all you have left. Doesn't have a chance in hell of beating the president, but then neither does anyone else in the clown show. He can team up with that fat a$$ed NJ gov and be a placeholder until 2016.
A waist is a terrible thing to mind.
I don't see the difference between what Romney said and Herman Cain's 9-9-9 or the Fair Tax. The key words are "…as a replacement for some part of the tax code…"
So this dope thinks that if Obamney would be willing to add another tax it would make us like him?
I do, however, think the comparison to Nixon is apt.
While I agree with your overall contention, that the VAT would be a disaster, I take real issue with this:
We don't do much manufacturing
If you took the manufacturing output of the US and made it it's own economy, it would be the 4th largest in the world, just behind Germany. I'm just tired of the myth that the US doesn't produce anything and we've outsourced everything to China.
The VAT would be an unmitigated disaster, and the fact that Romney's a fan shows that he's really a big-gov't "conservative" and not really interested in fixing our broken country.
No way! VAT taxes are particularly destructive, but when Cain was discussing his 9-9-9 plan, I noticed that a lot of people were mistaking the 9% sales tax for a VAT. I'd like to take the opportunity here to point out what the difference is, since some people seem the think the terms are interchangable.
A VAT is a value-added tax. That's what the acronym stands for. This means that at every stage where a product is improved, it is taxed– again and again.
Your company makes a widget that requires a component. So you order the component from your contracted component-maker. The component maker orders the resources to make the component. (to be continued)
(continued from previous post) Then this starts. The resources miner gets taxed when the resources are mined or artificially created, because resources in hand have more value than resources still in the ground, or uncreated. The component-maker gets taxed when he creates the component, because value has been added to the resources– it's been converted from a raw material to a useful object. Then when the component-maker sends you the component, and you make your widget, it is taxed AGAIN, because value has been added to the component. As you can see, at this stage the resources have already been taxed three times, the component twice.
Then the merchant who sells your widget then gets taxed again at point of sale. Score: Resources taxed four times, component 3 times, widget twice.
This is what is destroying the manufacturing base in Europe.
A sales tax is done only once— at final point of sale of your widget.
Mitt Romney is a big government statist who should put a D next to his name ans be honest. Sad to say, I fear this guy is going to be the nominee, and we'll get a repeat performance of McCain's loss in '08. We're screwed.
What "president?" Could it be The One and Only Miserable Failure in Chief who pledged the most transparent administration in history, then promptly embargoed all of his school transcripts, perhaps? Or, how about The Mendacious One who said he would be "post-partisan" and "post-racial," who then spent his entire term tossing calumny after slander at anyone who dared to disagree with His Almighty "intellect," and who constantly picked open old racial scars for his own dark ends? Or how about The Black Jesus himself, who said he would heal the economy, create jobs and restore faith in government, but who has done everything in his power to destroy job creators and has in fact only engendered fear of his big government?
With that pathetic record, Communist, the fact remains that my garbageman could humiliate the puny little punk out of public life for good with both unwashed hands tied behind his back and without breaking a sweat. The fact is, Your Hero Who Turned out to Be a Zero is a serial liar of the worst order. Better start kissing your socialist nirvana goodbye now, because That One is toast.
Didn't we say that when John McDole Keating V was running against him in 2008? Stop offering Democrat lite and give us a REAL CHOICE! #Bachmann2012
I'll pass on Obama/ Mittens 2012
Obama is white.
You tell me.
If its Romney or Obama, you'd rather have Obama?
I want my guy, and If I cant , then piss on everybody else. That's I'm hearing.
"Anybody But Obama". Right, folks?
If Bachmann is the nominee – she'll get the votes. If she's not the nominee, and she likely won't be, a tougher choice must be made – in any situation we must vote against Obama. It's pointless to complain about your candidate not getting the nomination when the stakes are so high. Folks who refuse to vote for the nominee for this reason, or even idiotically write-in a candidate who's not even on the ticket out of sheer childish stubbornness, are frankly, not fully appreciating the colossal consequences of this election.
If you had no choice but a known Marxist and a someone who at least is a moderate and understands free enterprise which one would you support?
Nope!
Thank you! Your the only other person here who has their head screwed on right.
He said he would consider it. If the GOP platform and people are so against it, maybe he would consider that also.
So if Mr Romney is inevitable, start telling him your objections. I am going to.
Thanks. There are more out there, so don't give up yet.
Tonight is slow thank to the Christmas holiday.
You support Santorum or Bachman?
Anyone but Obama, even a sick squirrel.
That's not what he said.
How long have you been working for the Romney camp?
At least stay busy telling all the liberals about the new on line voting that wednesday.
And the state controlled media is telling us he's the only choice. Just like McCain.
Why are we letting the liberals tell us who our nominee has to be?
Bachmann/Santorum or any combination of either!
A sales tax is on the final sale.
VAT is on every step of the way. How many taxes should be paid on your shoes?
Good!
Who told you I was in Romney's camp? I am in no one's at the moment, I prefer sanity, however, and I was afraid for awhile , it had gone out the window here.
Not a single primary vote has been cast.
Don't get excited yet, just work for the best candidate and give the system a chance.
And ignore the MSM, they have an agenda that ends up with us living like Zimbabwe.
Thank you! Neither one btw.
Just trying to do a reality check with Jingoist.
Dont worry, I intend to, but I seemed to have upset a few earlier on for having the audacity to accept Romney if that's all there was.
What position does Santorum have that you don't like?
Don't mean waste?
OK, it's like this, VAT stands for value ADDED tax. Lets say you hire a carpenter to build an addition on your house. He buys the lumber and charges you the VAT on just his labor because the VAT was already paid when he bought the lumber. The lumber yard pays the VAT on only their markup because their distributor already paid it on the rest. Etc. If you have a 10% VAT on a product you pay the same tax as you would with a 10% sales tax.
The reason conservatives HATE the VAT is because in Europe they ADDED a VAT to their tax systems as opposed to REPLACING an existing tax with a VAT.
Both hate homosexuals. Doesn't that bother you Roger?
BTW, what did your girlfriend get you for Christmas?
Exactly, he got nothing for christmas because he has never had a girlfriend.
rat boy.
give the system a chance? Spoken like typical paid hack troll rat boy.
screw the system.
I would vote for a steaming pile of dung before I would vote for Barry. If Mittens wins the nomination I won't be happy but I'll gladly pull the lever in his favor.
p.s. Merry Christmas…
VAT ain't phat!
Is that what Neda said too?
You're just a rented mouth here because you're paid to be. You admitted it in this comment you posted in a fit of anger.
6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.
rented mouth. So, who's paying you to comment tonight?
6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.
Wouldn't you like to know mr "i love marx'.
This from the guy who thinks god demands suicide bombs?
1 hour ago @ Big Government – Holocaust Denier Norma… · 0 replies · +1 points
trying to being down the roman empire rat boy!
god demands jihad and suicide bombers. Obviously.
No, it's not like that.
Sales tax as California and most states charge are on the final retail sale.
The auto maker doesn't pay tax on the parts it buys because the tax is paid at the end.
In a VAT tax the tire maker would pay tax on the added value of his product value at the time he sells it. If the supplier to the auto maker buys 10 products to assemble a sub assembly he would pay the VAT in his costs, then he would be charged a VAT for the sub assemblies he would sell to the auto maker, then the auto maker would have to charge it at the time it sells to the retail buyer. That's three times not counting the raw materials sold to start with.
The VAT is at every step of production.
The reason I hate it, is if we pay taxes on our incomes and it's wasted, why would I want to pay more and have it wasted too?
C'mon, now. He says he doesn't like the idea but would in essence, keep his options open. I hate the idea the a VAT as much as the next guy, but holding this up as a reason to dump him? Nah. Romney says he doesn't like it either as his first statement, and I'd be shocked if he ever did try to push a VAT forward. He knows we're in fiscal crisis, and in desperation, might need to keep some limited options open to avoid what happened to Bush Sr.
That's my point!
Cain would have been our first Black President… Or at least he would have been our President, who happened to be the first black one.
I'm not convinced- or ever will be that Obama is legit- regardless of what color he is.
Someone with no moral convictions keeps options open.
Especially on taxes in our economy that's in decline.
Any conservative understands that, Romney exposes his 'moderate' side here.
If he wanted to keep options open it should have been to reduce spending to 2008 levels.
I think McCain could have won last presidential election as well if he wouldn't have tryed to convince anybody that he was conservative. He didn't deserve Sarah as a running mate- though I'm glad he got her in the spot light.
His better picks for VP would have been Joe Liberman or Ted Kennedy. He'da resinated better with his true base.
Romney, the same thing- he can't win over conservative voters, and his attempts to sound "conservative" will only alienate his Liberal base. Obama wins. I'm sure we'll all go in and vote for Mitt with gas masks on all the same…
We need someone solidly conservative that will have the majority conservative core will come in droves to vote for. It really is to bad Palin and Cain are out of the race.
Merry Christmas Flig! Hope you're clinging to your Bible!
What Everyone Missing The Virginia Primaries Means For Your Candidate
http://thebachmanncometh.blogspot.com/2011/12/wha...
Like Biff Tannen, I hate manure, and if Romney is the nominee it's a choice between donkey poo and horse crap.
I understand the gravity of the situation. Unfortunately the GOP heads clearly don't, otherwise Boehner would've said the payroll tax bill would be put up to a vote AFTER reid put the budget up for one.
Well said.
Romney is much worse than McShame the past candidate "approved" by the Washington Establishment. The VAT is not a whole lot different than what we now have, merely structured according to VAT definition. Nearly everything we do or buy/sell gets taxed multiple times by many organizations.
I didn't write that post, and I have never called you a rat boy.
You are drunk again.
So doesn't it bother you that Santorum doesn't like homosexuals?
Why won't you tell me what your girlfriend got for you for Christmas?
My girlfriend got me a tablet, Galaxy Tab. I can download Marxist books on it and read them all day long.
Is your secret Santa a guy?
When is it the time to quit holding our nose and supporting the GOP pick, and make no mistake, they want Mitt. Problem is we always seem too afraid to just go in and vote our principles….afraid the incumbent will win.
This time, like last, there's so little difference between I will support my candidate. If he doesn't win the primary I'll write him in. That's how completely awful this GOP field is. There's so little difference I've got nothing to lose.
If Mitt wins, he's just obama lite. So skru it…….I'm voting for who I want, not who the party wants or who I think can beat obama.
Amen to that, kooz.
The GOP is completely corrupted, their fav candidates all suck so I'm voting my conscience because no matter who wins…..we get 4 more years of "spend the people's money like it's the 1920's and tax the krap outta them for more" policy. Vat my azzzzzzz.
Yard sales and barter will RULE! Gov't thinks we the people are too stupid to figure out how to get what we want without paying 10 times what it's worth?
Bring it, cupcakes!
And I didn't' use it to reply to you.
You're just a moron and can't keep track of the thread.
Again.
Wow, does that work out at the occupy protests while you're taking a dump on cop cars?
Tax is Theft
Romeny is one of the Elite Ruling Criminal Class of the Republican asnd Democrat Party.
romney, take your unconstitutional romneycare and please go away. we need someone who truly cares about our country and constitution. you only care about your career. please, please quit the race. go away. if you are nominated like the media is using every resource to shove at us, we WILL get 4 more years of obama.
A benefit of the VAT (if you're a fan of it) is that it all but eliminates the black market because the tax is applied at each stage during the production process — it's a tax that's virtually impossible to avoid.
this is exactly what the media and obama is hoping for. if someone of quality doesn't step up to save this nation, we will be lost. if i have to put up with reading about obamas lavish in your face vacations and golf outings for another 4 years while i am struggling to stay afloat, i will lose my mind. no kidding. this is an important moment in our nations history. we either get a patriot in office or everything our founding fathers tried to accomplish and all the sacrifice of our military WILL BE LOST. and so will the dream. lets all pray for our country in 2012.
if romney is the nominee, we must use every resource we have to get every patriot on board with a candidate of OUR choice. if everyone has to write the name in on the ballot, then thats what will have to be done. but we must all committ. its time to take back the country from the crooks who have stolen it from us and won't let go. we must.
not necessarily. lets not allow them to force that on us.
the fact that he is even talking about that makes him an enemy to this country. for a so called 'business man" to consider a vat tax cancels out all his credibility. do you realize how much red tape, strangulation and underground business (ie greece) this will cause? romney is a puppet as well, he just doesn't know it yet.
Ive been a conservative probably since some on this thread were the flash in their mother's eyes, when all we had to worry about was overspending, (lot of good that did) but one thing Ive seen is, that we tend to be our own worst enemy.
Liberals are supposed to be the idealists, yet if one conservative candidate that we like looses, you'd think it was the end of the world for some of us, the way we piss and moan about it onbly gives aid and comfort to the libtards.
Wake up! This is the real world, we may, and probably are never going to get the ideal candidate.
Reagan was not perfect, but remember his 11th commandment, speak no evil of another (conservative). I dont particularly care about some things Mitt says, either, but he's a worlds aprt from the Richard Skull we have now.
End of rant.
I don't understand ?
You do have a girlfriend , don't you?
I can\t imagine the reason why you wouldn't tell me what your girlfriend gave you.
Only one Repub is consistent and honest. Go Ron Paul!
On another note Merry Christmas everyone! May Barry be sent back to his 3rd world country.
Are the drug dealers going to collect the VAT? I think not. The black market will rule and I will gladly participate.
Welcome aboard! What people dont realize is they are being short sighted by plugging their nose, because the party is lurching further and further left, but people are worried about this election, like the last one, and the one before that. Who doesn't want to be on the winning side? Everyone wants to win, but party blindness and listening to the so called experts has got us in the predicament we are in now. The powers that be have this thing down to a science, they are banking on people capitulating and voting for the " next in line".
The system is broken on one hand, and the People are equally culpable on the other.
I think I am at the stage where apathy toward the political system is the only logical solution to keep sanity.
I am beginning to understand why other Americans are completely disconnected from the political apparatus
BHO is not my president. I refuse to obey. I intend to invoke my 10th amendment rights and live my life as I see fit, regardless of the policies of Washington. Time to take back our freedom.
'On the other hand, even a skeptic like me has admitted that Romney’s record in Massachusetts is difficult to assess because he was governor of a very left-wing state and he had to deal with a state legislature with heavy Democratic majorities'.—The fact is, he chose to be Governor of Massachusetts, and Left Liberal state. That in itself says much about the man's position. he may just be keeping the (very poor) option of VAT, but I'm betting it's firmly on the table and a very distinct possibility, if not probable.
And if he keeps enough options open, he can flip around more easily. H'e the type of elitist who thinks he can dangle his so called conservatism in front of America, and once elected he will do 'what's right' for the masses. But as with Obama, one thing after another is exposed giving solid glimpses if what the man is really all about.
"Pot" Paul…
Cannot win…again!
Will not win…again!
Should not have run again!
Do you want me to repeat it…again?
…or is a choice between donkey poo and elephant crap?
It is NOT racist…it is correct…the existing puppet of the Bilderberg…is neither white…nor black…he is both…and so you are correct in saying it…it is your way of describing that you think he is the equivalent of what we already have…and it is true!
Actually, "9-9-9" was bad news to establishment hacks, left and right, Democrat and Republican. Such bad news that Herman Cain HAD to be taken out of the running. While it's true that Cain was/is not yet "fully qualified" to step in as CIC, he certainly is better-qualified than the present WH occupant was in 2008, or is as we approach 2012.
The "9-9-9 plan" was, by itself, a vast improvement over the current convoluted tax system; but it was merely a transitory phase into the Fair Tax, which will repeal the 16th Amendment, abolish the Internal Revenue Service, and derail the gravy-train that enables "establishment" hacks to pick winners and losers via tax-system loophole-legislation.
You are twisting and spinning like so many other Democratzi 'loons'…even if you don't claim to be one!
What he is saying…is what all Christians…say…and what Holy Scripture admonishes us to do…'hate the sin…NOT the sinner'!
Old Testament…Book of Leviticus…Chapter 18…verse 22
“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination”
The bodies of the male and female were meant to harmonize each other to bring about reproduction of mankind. Sex was never, ever meant to be between male & male…and female and female.
Rick Santorum being a 'real' conservative and a devout Christian stands upon GOD's Holy principles…as do I and millions of others.
That does not mean that we HATE homosexuals…but merely that we hate what they do and the lifestyle they take on in doing so!
So stop already with the twisting and spinning…
No you are wrong…Slick Willie was the FIRST black president…remember?
Why do I get the feeling you want to follow the rules for radicals method here?
Personalize and destroy opposition.
I think you know enough about my personal life to understand my positions, anything more than that is stupid on my part.
And why don't you like Santorum again?
UH OH you must be high on the gateway drug MarY Jane…..
I have notified homeland.
And all this said before the first primary ballot is cast.
With your age and wisdom I would expect more perspective and patience.
STD
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