Should American Taxpayers Finance another Big Fat Greek Bailout?
by Dan MitchellThe notion that American taxpayers are about to subsidize another Greek bailout (via the Keystone Cops at the IMF) is way beyond economically foolish. It is also morally offensive.
To turn Winston Churchill’s famous quote upside down: “Never have so many paid so much to subsidize such an undeserving few.”
Let’s start with a few facts:
- o Greece’s GDP is roughly equal to the GDP of Maryland.
- o Greece’s population is roughly equal to the population of Ohio.
- o Despite that small size, in both terms of population and economic output, Greece already has received a bailout of about $150 billion (actual amount fluctuates with the exchange rate).
- o Don’t forget the indirect bailout resulting from purchases of Greek government bonds by the European Central Bank.
- o Now Greece is angling for another bailout of about $150 billion.
Is there any possible justification for throwing good money after bad with another bailout. Well, if you’re a politician from Germany or France and your big banks (i.e., some of your major campaign contributors) foolishly bought lots of government bonds from Greece, the answer might be yes. After all, screwing taxpayers to benefit insiders is a longstanding tradition in Europe.
But from a taxpayer perspective, either in Europe or the United States, the answer is no. Or, to be more technical and scientific, the answer is “Hell no, are you friggin’ out of your mind?!?”
Consider these fun facts from a recent column by John Lott and then decide whether the corrupt politicians of Greece (and the special interest groups that receive handouts and subsidies from the Greek government) deserve to have their hands in the pockets of American taxpayers.
Despite Greece’s promises, government spending is up over last year’s already bloated levels, the deficit is bigger than ever, and it has utterly failed to meet the promised sell-off of some government assets. Not a single public bureaucrat has been laid off so far. …Greece can pay off €300 of the €347 billion debt by selling off shares the government owns in publicly traded companies and much of its real estate holdings. The government owns stock in casinos, hotels, resorts, railways, docks, as well as utilities providing electricity and water. But Greek unions fiercely oppose even partial privatizations. Rolling blackouts are promised this week to dissuade the government from selling of even 17 percent of its stake in the Public Power Corporation. …Greeks apparently believe that they have Europe and the world over a barrel, that they can make the rest of the world pay their bills by threatening to default. Greece’s default would be painful for everyone, but for Europe and the United States, indeed for the world, the alternative would be even worse. If politicians in Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, and other countries think that their bills will be picked up by taxpayers in other countries, they won’t control their spending and they won’t sell off assets to pay off these debts. Countries such as Greece have to be convinced that they will bear a real cost if they don’t fix their financial houses while they still have the assets to cover their debts. …The real problem is the incentives we are giving to other countries. We have to make sure that “Kicking the can down the road” isn’t an option.
Just for good measure, here are a few more interesting factoids in a Wall Street Journal column by Holman Jenkins.
[Greece is] one of the most corrupt, crony-ridden, patronage-ridden, inefficient, silly economies in Christendom. …The state railroad maintains a payroll four times larger than its ticket sales. When a military officer dies, his pension continues for his unwed daughter as long as she remains unwed. Various workers are allowed to retire with a full state pension at age 45.
To be blunt, Greek politicians have miserably failed. Wait, that’s not right. You can’t say someone has failed when they haven’t even tried. Let’s be more accurate and say that Greek politicians have succeeded. They have scammed money from taxpayers in other nations to prop up a venal and corrupt system of patronage and spoils. Sure, they’ve made a few cosmetic changes and trimmed around the edges, but handouts from abroad have enabled them to perpetuate a bloated state. And now they’re using a perverse form of blackmail (aided and abetted by big banks) to seek even more money.
- Let’s now re-ask the earlier question: Should American taxpayer finance the corrupt big-government policies of Greece?
- Or perhaps we should think like economists, so let’s rephrase the question: Should we misallocate capital so that funds are diverted from private investment to corrupt Greek politicians?
- Or maybe we should think like parents who have to worry about spoiling a child and the signal that sends to the other kids, so let’s ask the question this way: Should we encourage bad behavior in Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc, by giving another bailout to Greece’s corrupt politicians?
- Or should we think about this issue from the perspective of addiction counselors and rephrase the question: Should we reward self-destructive behavior by providing more money to corrupt political elites in Greece?
- Or how about we think like moral human beings, and ask the real question: Should we take money from people who earned it and give it to people who think they are entitled to live at the expense of others?
Since we paraphrased Churchill earlier, let’s answer these questions by butchering Shakespeare: “A bailout from every angle would smell to high Heaven.”
I wrote back in February of 2010 that a Greek bailout would be a mistake and every development since that time has confirmed that initial commentary.
But that doesn’t matter. Politicians have a different way of looking at things. They look at a policy and wonder whether it increases their power and generates campaign contributions. And when you understand their motives, you begin to realize why they will answer yes to the previous set of questions.







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91 Comments
Hell no.
Is Greece merely being used as a proving ground to allow the Fed to calculate what the USA may be able
to get away with when our time of severe crisis comes?
WHAT A COUNTRY!
.
I want to know who is going to bail us out when we fail? There isn't a country with a big enough economy to do it. China relies on us to buy its crap, so cross them off of the list.
This is what global governance is about, one fails we all fail, of course your tax dollars are heading to Greece.
Of course we should not, but that's exactly what TARP was and obama will do. He's looking to bankrupt our country and doing a mighty fine job of it…..
Maybe Bono can help.
Greeks benefited disproportionately from their country's membership in the E.U.
Everyone knew that from the start. But once they became members, the Greeks did everything they could to avoid paying their share. The populace created its own cash economy to avoid paying the VAT and other taxes, while the Greek government played currency games to avoid paying their share.
All the while, the Greek citizens lived high on the hog, working less and less and demanding more and more.
Germany were the suckers in all this – as the most industrious, productive, and richest EU state, they directly and indirectly financed Greece's profligacy. As it now stands, Greek workers work less than 3/4 the hours German workers do, and retire much earlier, with better benefits.
That alone should be the only argument needed to deny Greece one single dime of American bailout loot, let alone billions of dollars.
Why are we taking a loan from one country only to give it to another country while we get stuck with the principal and interest payments with absolutely no benefit and more in the cemetery hole we keep digging.
We need to bail ourselves out before we can consider helping anyone else, I don't see anyone else rushing aid to us for the flood in Minot.
You took the words right out of my mouth!
Hell No!!!
Greece should be allowed to fail. The country mismanaged itself into the position it's in now and the people there don't want to give up a single thing to save the country. It isn't the rest of the world's responsibility to repeatedly bail them out. They've had their bailout already and wasted it. Sending more money to Greece will only be sending a message that they can continue wasting money.
I second the motion.
Perhaps Baracky should poll, or gather input from all of the nation-wide Obamaville residents. /S
let's see we got a NO!
a HELL NO!
let me git mine in here…*%#@*?! NO…
for those of you that don't read caps lock…F*****G NO
quit tryin' to make sense…it'll jist giv' ya a haid-ake…
Republicans in the House need to defund and then end United States participation in the IMF, as well as the United Nations as a whole, or Republicans in the House need to be fired.
"Or how about we think like moral human beings, and ask the real question: Should we take money from people who earned it and give it to people who think they are entitled to live at the expense of others?"
I had to work nearly 50 years, at least 40 hrs. a week in order to be,….
enjoying the fruits of my labor for what is left of my life.
If the the people of this insignificant country,……
who produce nothing of value want some of my money,……
they must, at least, accomplish one half of what I have done.
I thought we were going to 'nation build' at home since the troops are coming home!
That's what 0bama said…oh wait, nevermind.
It's all about redistribution of wealth. The Greeks and their unions don't have enough and we Americans, according to Lord Barry, have way too much. It's only fair to take from the "haves" and give to the "have nots, but want mores"! it's the marxist way and Obama is all about marxism.
Sounds like he needs a bail-out for his personal finances.
Great. We are giving to Greece what we would deny our own children–a bail out because they overspent. I guess if you throw a big enough tantrum, our govt will give us what we want. ??
Why should we bail out any other socialist failure when we are creating one of our own?
This can't be. Isn't Greece a Socialist Utopia? i thought Socialism leads to a robust economy, happy citizens and total equality beyond our wildest dreams.
This Greece thing must be manufactured by the Conservative media and Breitbart to make us think that socialism doesn't work.
We know better, tho!
This is another wonderful object study for thinking people (conservatives), for the parasite class (liberals) not so much.
The answer is “NO!!!!!!”
No. Arrest and Prosecute any who put more dbt on the American Taxpayer…we're broke and hopelessly in debt…end the spending…purge the Collapsers….delete the Infectors.
Fed Frets Over Fiscal Recklessness Behind Calm of 0.09% Yield Wednesday, 22 Jun 2011 09:00 AM
http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Fed-Frets-Ove...
"It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it." George Washington
Conventional wisdom says that we have to keep these economies afloat to prevent a global meltdown.
Of course, the jamokes in DC can't think things through. Where will it end? If Greece comes back to the well every year, how is that a solution?
It sort of reminds me of Obama propping up states and school district employees and calling it stimulus. At the end of the day, the states are just as broke and the public employees have advanced one more year on their bloated pay scales. Explain to me again how this is a solution?
Socialism's greatest virtue is in it's equitable distribution of misery. So, ……what…it's our turn to take a bite of that shiite sandwich? It's OK…..the euroweenies will put grey pupon on it.
Fornicate thyself.
Greece makes the US public sector unions look like amateurs. The best statement in the article above is “Hell no, are you friggin’ out of your mind?!?”
In order to stave off a Greek-like tragedy, the US will begin enacting austerity measures of its own.
( I got this in an email)
To save the economy, commencing in July , 2011, the government will start deporting old people, instead of illegals in order to lower Social Security and Medicare costs.
I started crying when I thought of some of you here…………
/humor off
Maybe if Greece needs $$ we could buy a few Islands some with (Ports or good bays). That is how we ended up with land here. we bought it when someone needed $$$ because of their bad spending habits.
But give them a loan? Hell no, Their citizens will not want to pay it back. Look at the streets.
The visible collapse of Greece and other Socialist Societies should be allowed to happen.
It points out to the world that Government run "anything" is untenable economically, and oppressive on an individual level because it robs people of their freedoms! Let them learn that Capitalism is the only successful society, once and for all. You too Cal, NY, NJ, and Chicago!
NO ONE. THEY ALL HATE US, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE PAID FOR EVERYONE WHILE PROVIDING THEIR SECURITY!!!!
Sounds like exactly what SEIU wants for their members…er I mean leadership!
Agreed, however I don't want to wait, I dream of millions peacefully removing the trash from their,oops I mean our offices.
Free Bernie Madoff! He was just an amateur compared to our gov't, IMF, UN and Europe. I will not rest until he is released with a full pardon.
Honestly, why is he in jail and the elite walk free? Folks it's coming soon, rope and trees! Fear knot, I'll learn how to tie it!
Remember the Alamo!
I say, "Hell Yeah"…
… to a modified bailout. A modified bailout is what normal people call "a purchase". We hand over bunches and bunches of money, we take bunches and bunches of land. Prime land. Not that worthless crap loaded with non-working, useless union people. We get the bitchin beaches. We get the seaports. We get the airport.
They keep the "workers paradise" that isn't worth two spits in a bucket.
So yeah, this should be our new "foreign aid" policy. You want our cash? What have you got to trade for it?
Sure, if Greece bails out Governor Krusty Brown and all of Kalifornia. /s off Hell no, Greece = FAIL
Read your comment after I posted mine saying about the same thing. You were much more polite than I.
Thumbs up for you!
"And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane." Kipling
They're trying to do just that Ralph. They want to accomplish the "enjoying the fruits of your labor" half.
So, Obama's thinking about going Greek, eh? Figures.
N…..F…..W !!!!!
Good one there Blue,…
OOPAAAAH
The answer to that question is obviously HELL NO!
Obama is in need of feeding his ego at the expense of the taxpayer. Should we do something? No way. But this would help break the back of America and give him a rush. How much longer will the taxpayer jack off the president?
It's a good and proper question, to which the answer has already come and has been described in a variety of manners.
However, I think it's worth asking the follow-up question: Will it matter?
Will it matter… to the Greeks? Will the Greeks look at this as a disgrace? Does anyone in Greece have any dignity left? Will it make any difference?
Will it matter… to the Europeans using the euro as their currency? Their currency is being undercut but do they care? Do the Irish, Spanish, Portuguese and Italians care? Will the Germans care? Can it save the euro? Can it save Europe from falling into the abyss? Will they avoid war this time?
Will it matter… to us in America? With the kind of money that they've been borrowing and spending so frivolously, does it really matter? America is on the way to insolvency, whether we prop up the euro through bailouts to Greece or not, and this only gets us to that destination more quickly.
If the GOP holds firm and not allow a debt ceiling increase, the government will have to cut spending and prioritize where it spends the money that it does have. The question then has to be asked: Will the government prioritize correctly and service the debt, or will they decide to continue to spend frivolously and forget about servicing the debt by paying the interest payments due? We already have the answer as to what the government will do. The administration has been telling us for months what will happen. They have every intention of defaulting on those interest payments and trying to pin it on the GOP.
Comments from David Stockman, former Budget Director under Reagan:
"In Europe, Stockman raged against a dichotomy of tax and debt slavery created by the EU: "They're attempting to go turn the prudent Europeans of the north into permanent tax slaves in order to bail out the big banks in France and Germany and elsewhere who don't deserve a bailout," he said, adding that, "In order to accomplish that, they will attempt to turn the millions the of people who live in southern Europe into permanent debt slaves in order to pay the piper from the guarantees coming from the north."…"The IMF is an absurd institution," he said. "It's destructive. It's the source of holding this whole thing together with bailing wire."
Regarding the US, Stockman warned of a "bond armageddon" where rates could rise quickly to five percent.
This conversation is not confined to Greece. Queuing up behind Greece stands Spain, and now Italy. Not to mention several American states such as California. Again, US finances are held together by a slender thread. Any of these and other risks could sever that thread at any time. Many Americans are growing complacent owing to a placid illusion of stability provided by epic Fed money printing. Epic money printing will persist, but the illusion of stability will not.
I heard rumors that boiled rope futures are positively booming in Greece. I wonder if I can trade that over here in the US?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I can see it now…U2 and the rest of the usual suspects give a massive CONCERT FOR THE GREEKS – LIVE FROM THE ACROPOLIS.
But the EU revenue cops are all there, undercover, and arrest them all on their way to the show.
Two months later, CONCERT FOR THE EUROPEAN UNION – LIVE FROM ELBA.
Sen. Paul Unveils 5-Year Budget Plan: Eliminates Four Federal Agencies March 17, 2011 4:12 PM http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/03/sen-paul...
"It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it." George Washington
There is no other reason to deny aid to Greece necessary, other than they are a socialist country. Period. We need to get out of every treaty and organization with all these communists, dictators and corrupt monarchies, form a new organization with the free, representative governments of the world, and let the rest collapse in their own filth. Then, maybe, we can help the wronged peoples, newly freed from their failed systems, to realize that Capitalism is the only true freedom in the world.
Ron Reale
realetybytes.com
coachisright.com
bnnreports.com
I was going to say one word … No. But you said it better!
You are so right. Obama's redistributive goals are not merely between rich and poor Americans. He is redistributing wealth of all Americans to other countries.
No. We feed too many unProductives, radicals, terrorists, communists and bureaucrats as it is…more consuming the free market every day thanks to the freaking democrats…it must be reversed
Why not – we finance Israel.
Why would we not support Greece but continue to support Israel? Both are virtual wastelands with ancient history. Only difference is Greece isn't invading neighbors and causing problems, hasn't attacked us like Israel has, doesn't spy on us like Israel does, doesn't sell our info around the world like Israel does. So why is supporting Israel not even questioned yet supporting Greece is?
Why don't leftards like you bail out Greece with your own money?
It will never happen because leftards only like to waste other people's money.
Pathetic hypocrites.
These entitlement rich morons saw this train coming a long time ago and were banking on every other country to keep bailing them out. There is no longer the mantra of too big to fail. Just let them fail and figure it out for themselves we have more problems with our own entitlement rich and generational welfare persons in this country, Detroit, Gary Indiana, Atlanta, Los Angeles , Chicago, and many many more. Strangely, all of these areas seem to be in the larger metropolitan areas where the liberal/ progressives have been running the show.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.."
– Winston Churchill
So long as Ziotards like Bachmann support Israel with their own money….
Without doubt, the role model for America that is pursued by the lunatic-left d-cRAT socialists is the utterly failed, morally, ethically, socially, politically and fiscally bankrupt european state of Greece.
Thanks to Greece, the d-cRAT socialists have an abundance of campaign slogans for the Nov. 2012 election:
"Re-elect d-cRATs and Complete the Transformation of America Into Greece"
"Continue the Greece-Fire in the American Economy: Vote d-cRAT!"
"Elect d-cRATs – We'll Continue to Spend Like A Drunken Greek!"
"Don't Let Greece Beat Us: Keep America #1 in Debt – Vote for a d-cRAT"
"We Burn Your Tax Dollars Faster than Greece Burns Its Cities! Go d-cRATs!"
"Show Your American Spirit by Helping Defeat Greece and Give America the Title "The SLOWEST GROWTH, HIGHEST TAX State on Earth" by Electing d-cRAT Socialists !"
In Nov. 2012 LET'S TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY: THROW OUT EACH AND EVERY D-CRAT SOCIALIST that is taking America down their lunatic-left "Road to Hell" (aka, "Road to Greece").
First of all asswipe, Israel is not on the verge of imploding due to corrupt politicians. Secondly, your nothing but an anti-Semitic jackass.
Because Socialism is the ideal form of government and Greece will restart their economy without multiple jump starts from the IMF et al. Israel on the other hand is in a state of disarray, because a sound capitalistic command economy doesn't work. Going deaf? More cowbell.
Israel was created with COMMUNIST ideals (ever hear of a "kibbutz"?) Israel is a haven of old Soviet communists where they feel at home there.
Seriously, I never met a Democrat or Liberal who gave all their money away.
But they are real big on giving away other peoples money.
<DIV>The prime minister bought a home a below market value, yeah, that's equal to what the Greek politicians have doneand continue to do. Moron.</DIV> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt”> <DIV style=”FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”>
I here you brother, My original post would have been *%#@*?! NO.. but I figured that was a breach of etiquette. You know like going from dog dare to triple dog dare. The next guy had *%#@*?! NO.
: )
Now that's the slowest comment I've seen on here in a while.
Apparently Nation building is done on the golf course, you know like when OJ Simpson was looking for his wife's killer on the links. Ooooh too soon?
I see it this way. When your lazy, deadbeat, adult offspring starts dragging you down with him, you kick him out of the basement and make him pay his own way.
Just some facts that are relevant to the discussion:
According to a report issued by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the tax cuts significantly increased the share of federal income taxes paid by the highest-earning 20 percent of households compared to their levels in 2000, President Clinton's final year in office. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2009/05/...
"It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it." George Washington
I am going to try to avoid saying how ungodly stupid you are here, but PL, you understand absolutely nothing at all.
Israel along with about every other nation on Earth, we all give financial aid. The problem in the article which you stupidly avoided is about bailing out Greece again. And as you carelessly avoided here to, BAILOUTS DONT WORK. Why continue to give taxpayer money to an already failing nation that cant and wont fix itself? Answer that fool.
Top of the list is Israel BY FAR (and they get it in CASH unlike ANY other nation) and second on the list is Egypt which we give money BECAUSE we give money to Israel.
Let us know when your synaptic fibers start functioning.
In the meantime, enjoy the childsafe knives and firearms provided.
Should Americans finance another Big Fat Greek Bailout? In a word, NO.
The bailouts are all about bailing out the banks who lent them them money. It's the same in this Country. Tell me you were surprised when it came to light last month that part of the $800 billion Obama stimulus went to the Bank of Libya, and that the overwhelming majority of the bailout money went to foreign banks!!!!! WAKE THE HELL UP!!!! That's why the Federal Reserve Bank was created in the first place, to bail out Great Britain after World War I, so that the big banks, both here and in Europe, don't have to take any risk. It always falls on the United States taxpayers. It's not enough that we've killed our best and brightest by sending them to fight in God forsaken places in Europe and the middle east, but we're also sending those countries our money and guaranteeing their debts, like that super freakin idiot Obama just did by guaranteeing to the world Egypt's debts. WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!
No never –
We have to change this mentality till we get out debt
Let the Greek neighbor help there neighbors – I read they are only 2% of the Europe economy
NO
I never read all the posts & was in a hurry this A.M. when I posted, but it is nice to know I wasn't the only one thinking that senerio. Like minded on this issue. Thanks.
"Greek unions fiercely oppose even partial privatizations. Rolling blackouts are promised this week to dissuade the government from selling of even 17 percent of its stake in the Public Power Corporation. …Greeks apparently believe that they have Europe and the world over a barrel, that they can make the rest of the world pay their bills by threatening to default."
That is fascism.
My children and grand children all say they are looking forward to working extra hours each week, retiring never, with no pension, so lazy Greeks can retire at 50y/o with a fat pension..
Same as selfish retired, Californa public sector union, feather bedders…
Bail them out with what??? We're in the hole for 14 trillion–our grandchildren won't be able to bail us out.
No.
You got any other stupid questions…It is a problem for Europe. They combined their currency and came up with the Euro.
I knew at the outset it was a very bad idea.
We need to let that work itself out with the Europeans. They built the mess.
And even if we didn't have to BORROW money to give away on a 30 year note sold to China..
No. Do you think China will buy our junk bonds if we keep giving it away?
no..no..HELL, NO! We work while they continue to be given handouts??? Can't we impeach Dumbo for SOMETHING by now????
I've heard their income tax system is based on the "honor system" with no income verification, so everyone just cheats.
Obama is aiming for that head of the one world order position and his ego needs constant stroking. He will certainly throw the US under the bus and send our money overseas, it is call redistributing the wealth. The worst president in history.
BS MORON, Iraq and afghanistan get FAR more. We only give Isreal about 600million, those two countries COMBINED get FAR MORE. Go collect your gov't cheese DB…
And again, you still miss the point. Instead of focusing on the topic of another failed bailout for Greece, you just focus on Israel who is not asking for any bailout money as they are far more stable economically and trying to defend its borders at the same time as Jordan and Egypt attack them. On top of that, Egypt doesnt attack Israel cause we give them money, they attack them for the same reason Jordan does, an ancient religious hatred of Jews and nothing more.
You may want to catch up on your history again, and drop your stupid hatred aside and look at what the real issue is. No wonder you leftists morons suck at politics, you are just filled with blind hatred and deflect the topic to something unrelated.
Please note that my book Keynes Hayek: The Clash That Shaped Modern Economics is published by W.W.Norton in October.
Professor John B.Taylor of Stanford and the Hoover Institution says that: “Nicholas Wapshott brings the Keynes-Hayek fight of the 20th century back to life, making the clash both entertaining and highly relevant for understanding economic crises of the 21st century.”
Read an extract at: sites.google.com/site/wapshottkeyneshayek/
Nicholas Wapshott
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