Americans Voting with their Feet to Escape Obama Tax Oppression
by Dan MitchellThe Financial Times reports that the number of Americans giving up their citizenship to protect their families from America’s onerous worldwide tax system has jumped rapidly. Even relatively high-tax nations such as the United Kingdom are attractive compared to the class-warfare system that Obama is creating in the United States.
I run into people like this quite often as part of my travels. They are intensely patriotic to America as a nation, but they have lots of scorn for the federal government. Statists are perfectly willing to forgive terrorists like William Ayres, but they heap scorn on these “Benedict Arnold” taxpayers. But the tax exiles get the last laugh since the bureaucrats and politicians now get zero percent of their foreign-source income. You would think that, sooner or later, the left would realize they can get more tax revenue with reasonable tax rates. But that assumes that collectivists are motivated by revenue maximization rather than spite and envy.
The number of wealthy Americans living in the UK who are renouncing their US citizenship is rising rapidly as more expatriates seek to escape paying tax to the US on their worldwide income and gains and shed their “non-dom” status, accountants say. As many as 743 American expatriates made the irreversible decision to discard their passports last year, according to the US government – three times as many as in 2008. …There is a waiting list at the embassy in London for people looking to give up citizenship, with the earliest appointments in February, lawyers and accountants say. …“The big disadvantage with American citizens is they catch you on tax wherever you are in the world. If you are taxed only in the UK, you have the opportunity of keeping your money offshore tax free.”
To grasp the extent of this problem, here are blurbs from two other recent stories.
Time magazine discusses the unfriendly rules that make life a hassle for overseas Americans.
For U.S. citizens, cutting ties with their native land is a drastic and irrevocable step. But as Overseas American Week, a lobbying effort by expatriate-advocacy groups, convenes in Washington this week, it’s one that an increasing number of American expats are willing to take. According to government records, 502 expatriates renounced U.S. citizenship or permanent residency in the fourth quarter of 2009 — more than double the number of expatriations in all of 2008. And these figures don’t include the hundreds — some experts say thousands — of applications languishing in various U.S. consulates and embassies around the world, waiting to be processed. While a small number of Americans hand in their passports each year for political reasons, the new surge in permanent expatriations is mainly because of taxes. …expatriate organizations say the recent increase reflects a growing dissatisfaction with the way the U.S. government treats its expats and their money: the U.S. is the only industrialized nation that taxes its overseas citizens, subjecting them to taxation in both their country of citizenship and country of residence. …Additionally, the U.S. government has implemented tougher rules requiring expatriates to report any foreign bank accounts exceeding $10,000, with stiff financial penalties for noncompliance. “This system is widely perceived as overly complex with multiple opportunities for accidental mistakes, and life-altering penalties for inadvertent failures,” Hodgen says. These stringent measures were put into place to prevent Americans from stashing undeclared assets in offshore banks, but they also make life increasingly difficult for millions of law-abiding expatriates. “The U.S. government creates conflict and abuses me,” says business owner John. “I feel under duress to understand and comply with laws that have nothing to do with me and are constantly changing — almost never in my favor.” …Many U.S. expats report being turned away by banks and other institutions in their countries of residence only because they are American, according to American Citizens Abroad (ACA), a Geneva-based worldwide advocacy group for expatriate U.S. citizens. “We have become toxic citizens,” says ACA founder Andy Sundberg. Paradoxically, by relinquishing their U.S. citizenship, expats can not only escape the financial burden of double taxation, but also strengthen the U.S. economy, he says, adding, “It will become much easier for these people to get a job abroad, and to set up, own and operate private companies that can promote American exports.”
The New York Times, meanwhile, delves into the misguided policies that are driving Americans to renounce their citizenship.
Amid mounting frustration over taxation and banking problems, small but growing numbers of overseas Americans are taking the weighty step of renouncing their citizenship. …frustrations over tax and banking questions, not political considerations, appear to be the main drivers of the surge. Expat advocates say that as it becomes more difficult for Americans to live and work abroad, it will become harder for American companies to compete. American expats have long complained that the United States is the only industrialized country to tax citizens on income earned abroad, even when they are taxed in their country of residence, though they are allowed to exclude their first $91,400 in foreign-earned income. One Swiss-based business executive, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of sensitive family issues, said she weighed the decision for 10 years. She had lived abroad for years but had pleasant memories of service in the U.S. Marine Corps. Yet the notion of double taxation — and of future tax obligations for her children, who will receive few U.S. services — finally pushed her to renounce, she said. …Stringent new banking regulations — aimed both at curbing tax evasion and, under the Patriot Act, preventing money from flowing to terrorist groups — have inadvertently made it harder for some expats to keep bank accounts in the United States and in some cases abroad. Some U.S.-based banks have closed expats’ accounts because of difficulty in certifying that the holders still maintain U.S. addresses, as required by a Patriot Act provision.
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134 Comments
Anyone who leaves America to live in Britain thinking they are better off there is insane. They are even more a police state and their taxes are just as oppressive.
Go to Asia, or the Caribbean.
Rich people are very portable.
Going Galt, anyone?
While I agree with your statement, that wasn't really the point of this article. While it's true that Britain has an oppressive tax system, these expatriates are paying those taxes, PLUS U.S. taxes. Since their livlihood is in Britain, it only makes sense to renounce American citizenship to avoid double taxation.
There's no excuse for giving up American citizenship to save bucks–that's why we were given a Constitution, to fight would-be czars who attempt to hose us. Giving up American citizenship is dereliction of duty, period. No, Obama ought to give up his–he hardly passes for an American, as it is.
Do we need any further proof that America, the richest, freeist, and most prosperous country in the world can be dragged down by the proven failed system of Socialism!
Two fixes to win upcoming elections:
1- Purge the voter registration roles across America! or Dems and Obama will get Millions of fraudulant votes!
2- Require I.D. for every American Citizen that votes! (they're hating me for writing this. ha)
The United States was founded upon a tax revolt. Nice to see that some things haven't changed.
Ugh. Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse.
I can move to Canada in a heartbeat, but I will not forsake my country because of Hussein. "F'" him and I want to see him removed. So you Patriots better make this November worthwhile.
No taxation without representation (and ramming tax increases through Congress and the Senate is not the same as "passing" them)
So what happens when your US taxes and foreign taxes exceed 100% of income? Sounds like another great idea from the federal government.
i think that anybody who wans to leave to escape taxes is fine with me.. It is there choice and i might do the same one day. As my wife is from another country and we might go back there to kick back. Not far from the beach. Ha she is from a South East Asian country. I won,t give up my US Passport though. But every thing will be in her name as she is not a US citizen, lets see what happens then?
All I can say is that if it takes 60 votes to pass a permanent tax CUT it should take 75 to pass a permanent tax INCREASE.
I cannot for the life of me understand why the US has such troubles holding accurate elections.
Here in Canada, we show up at the polls and are given a "paper ballot" after having our names verified as being on the voters list. We go to one of the tables around the room, which have a cardboard 'shield' sitting on them. We use a thing called a "pencil" to make a "mark" in one of circles next to the candidate of our choice.
Within hours of the polls closing, the winner is announced.
It sounds incredible, but it is true.
The only thing I can think of is that the US has a bigger economy and more people (and thus a bigger government budget), thus there is more incentive to cheat, which, come to think of it, pretty much defeats the entire rationale behind the Constitution in the first place.
well, this country is in trouble, either we leave, or fight. i do not want to leave my home, and move overseas, but i do not want to be a slave of the state either. we will have one hell of a fight to push back the socialist/communist ruling class in d.c., but it will be well worth the fight for future generations.
Exactly. It is not purely "taxes" as some critics of the Tea Party will proclaim. It is the lack of representation.
We spend too much on a bloated, inefficient and under-productive bureaucracy. Congress won't even come clean on a budget. The Tea Party is very much like the parent who gets the credit card bill from the pampered silly juvenile first year college student. The only way to reign that child in is to lower the credit limit or take the card away.
That is what we mean by 'lowering taxes.' It means we want our elected officials to REPRESENT US. And we are asking our representatives to spend only what we can afford.
Their response is that we must raise the credit card limit. And that is the response of spoiled rotten children. Drunk spoiled rotten children.
What do you think happens when the only people left in a country are the ones in the low income tax brackets?
The reverse "green card" is something I've been alluding to also. How ironic that as the debate about poor immigrants seeking their US Green Card takes center stage wealthy Americans begin to look at it with disdain.
This is the policy of mad men and women. Insanity. It is the only common thread with this Administration and Congress that is apparent. Who would want to destroy their own sovereignty?
Any wonder why another common thread is Soros?
Apparently, from reading the article, it's not an either/or proposition. You get taxed twice if you keep your citizenship, and only once if you renounce it. So taking "only" British taxation is a better deal. i think it's sad that they feel they should have to do this, but these are unintended consequences of hastily written, under-read and under-debated legislation. That includes the offshore hiding regulations and the PATRIOT act.
The "progressives" would call that "success."
No worries, the parasite class will pay the freight…right?
I dont even consider myself middle class. My husband I are lucky to both still have ours jobs and getting by but I know we will start to get behind next year when all SHTF with taxes. I have thought a lot about leaving the country
It is so sad to feel this way……..I am not a Sunshine Patriot so I will stay here and stand up for my country
Oh yeah!
Never understood why people are willing to show I.D. to open a bank account and dozens of other day to day transactions in Amercia and then have a fit over showing I.D. to cast a vote.
Nice!
Like that!
We should all thank Dan Mitchell for his uncanny ability to write common sense articles on the economy and taxation issues.
I ask that all Tea party members use Dan Mitchell and the Heritage Foundation on their websites. WE should be very thankful we have them.
I'm with you. I'm still waiting for some attorneys to come up with the Impeachment papers and give them to one of the Tea Parties. We will run with them and BO's head will be spinning! ha ha ha
I can't speak for every city/state in the US but I vote in the Omaha, Nebraska area and that's the way it is done here. Winners/losers are generally known by bedtime except in cases where there are a lot of absentee ballots and the election is close.
They will blame the evil Tea Partiers for sabotage and for their poor production in the Gulags.
Agreed on the Soros thing. Truth is they don't care about America. They care about "Transformig her"
Think it's bad now? Another 15,000 IRS employees are slated to be hired (to police our compliance with Obamacare). It's long past time to get serious about completely overhauling our federal tax system. While a reasonable flat tax would certainly be preferable to the abomination of the "progressive income tax" (Translation: redistribution of wealth-income tax system), we really should be demanding passage of the Fair Tax Act, with the absolute first step, before implementation, of abolishment of the federal income tax and elimination of the Internal Revenue Service.
Its getting to be that joke that went around a few years ago is becoming a reality:
Line 1 What did ytoiu make last year?
Line 2 Send it in..
We have to. It just needs to be systematic, and with knowledge of the big picture; that this is about a Ruling Class that wants to multiply their Money and Power. Not altruistic patriots who love this country and weep when they hear patriotic songs. (that's U.S.)
If they were Patriots would they allow 20Million Illegal criminals to run wild over our country and then claim that they 'want them to stay?' with a Blessing? ahead of Legal applicants who actually have something to offer America? No, these are No Patriots, these are Dirty Politicians drooling for votes, at the expense of our quality of life! Ugh.
So we need to work City by City, College by College, Voter Registrations Purged and Certified (need a legal doc to do that. GOP! do your dam jobs! and clean up the Voting Situation or they'll steal more elections!) Grrrr……
Don't be discouraged. The good times are right around the corner, and we outnumber them by a lot!
Just think of pathetic Boxer begging her people in Ca. – 'can you get as excited at the Tea Party?' ha ha ha ha ha
Any patriot worth the salt of the earth they are stepping on will stay and pursue every last bastard who screwed this economy into the ground with what they thought they could get away with.
This whole lousy website won't fucus on Fin Reg because the need for government, with all the crooks making fast bucks, is something that just doesn't jive with its mission. Hint, Goldman wouldn't pay 550 million if they didn't do something majorly wrong.
Why don't you go to Canada, so the rest of us can put a government together that cleans up this mess. It would be nice to see people like you removed.
I love the purity of your voting scenario. It's the way it should be, honorable.
However the reality is that millions of dead people, jailed, moved, etc. are left "on the voter rolls" and can be used over and over. Even "Mickey Mouse" was used in '08, Remember ACORN?
It is a glitch in the system. To accomplish a "purge" of these obsolete names requires a formal request from an elected official which I think should be done away with. It should be done automatically after every election, but it's not. In the last election there was massive voter fraud and manipulations. Sad and frustrating.
Our only choice is to focus on it and change it in every town and city. The I.D. requirement will help a lot because that automatically dispenses with the dead people, etc.
I would really like to know how many of these people supported Obama initially. I would be willing to bet 90% at least
If only Honor were alive and well everywhere, like that.
I think that the I.D. requirement should be a required assignment for our GOP elected officials. Plus whoever gets that Legislation through gets their name on it, and goes down in History.
Even after fully going into the AMT last year, my EFFECTIVE tax rate was 26%. Are you some kind of freggin' comic? "exceed 100% of income"? The Laffer curve has two sides, neither is funny, one you completely ignore. Next, you'll probably evade like a good Greek.
ha ha ha. Like that!
Wake up call! Goldman is BOs & Dims friend. Hello – do your homework, you're behind the curve.
good one!
Adopt the Illegals and call it a day BO. (that's their dream you know, "open borders" no more America)
You just beat me to it.
Idiots……..
Americans voting with their feet to escape Obama Opression?
It is almost Biblical.
The Obama Exodus…………….
Go to hell. The progresives like you will only make this country slide into an abyss, thats why i won't leave and will fight with eveything I have to wipe people like you off the face of the planet.
That mess that they just passed has to be repealed asap. Union members installed into Wall St? IRS all over the place? Rules for Radicals all the way. All they had to do with compliance was to fire & replace half of the S.E.C. staff, add more Regs., and enforce their oversight jobs more stringently. But no, they had to go Socialist.
I like the Flat tax only because it's fair, and in this political climate if we do Fair Tax it is easier for them to manipulate that, and you know they will! But their dream and plan is to keep all taxes in place, you know, taxed to the hilt, and top it off with the VAT to be sure they've bled U.S. dry.
It only effects hard working people whom these parasites feed off of, so they don't care. The Welfare group is untouched, and D.C. is untouched, top bracket is always safe. That leaves we the tax payers, like the Tea Parties etc. Surprise. Well we have to come back with tight plans starting with getting out the vote.
Check your EFFECTIVE tax rates and stop complaining. Hedge fund managers still pay 15%. They'll probably stick around for that reason, if not the gift they got when Scott Brown drove his truck through the Volcker Rule. The next Maddoff, Mozillo, Skilling, Hayward and Blankfein himself is probably looking forward to the "Novermber revolution", when all the underfunding starts, soon to be followed by a 2012 hollowing out that ensures they will be "free" to perpetrate, once again.
The Bush tax cuts have to lapse. Better to give the same dollar figure to the middle class taxpayer, than to expect that rasing dividend income tax rates from 15-20% is going to "drive investors into the hills". People who live on dividends don't work and their only other alternative is a universe of 3-5% bonds. The ones that pack-up over this weren't patriots, anyway.
Probably goes without saying, but you know you will not be alone. I was born on American soil and will be buried in it.
Lock and Load.
I agree with you! Hopefully it will happen this year. When you have "Mickey Mouse" on the ballots during obama's election, I think it's time to require valid I.D. to vote. We need to get who we really want in D.C.
When you add up every tax most Americans pay, even the poor, are giving 35-60% or more of their incomes to the government. When politicians and the relic media talk about taxes, the talk about the income tax only. In fact income taxes are but a small part of the taxes most Americans pay.
They conviently forget Medicare, Social Security, Medicade, property and sales taxes, unemployment insurance, taxes on gas, phone and electric bills, sin taxes, tipping fees, etc. etc. etc. Now we have a huge new health care entitlement with its new taxes looming.
No wonder people are leaving.
I'm staying and fighting. It's what Patriots do.
And it should only require 25 votes to institute erasure of the term 'permanent' in describing tax increases.
Need some feedback, some pinko in the local paper wants me to shut up – this is my response, good bad or otherwise:
To The Editor:
I write these letter to politicians, and submit them for publishing, because I firmly believe this country needs an extreme case of “go fever,” and a large dose of regulatory Metamucil. In addition, like most of you, I am tired of debt and deficits, and of politicians subverting the will of The People, via the influence of campaign contributions. As for campaign contributions, Representative John Halls makes for interesting reading, more on this later.
Readers of this newspaper are highly educated, and have access to the same source material I use via the internet as to Mr. Halls legislative record. My apologies, but the Bedford Record does not allow footnotes, if they are required I will gladly submit them for the Editors review. Let us cover some factual ground though about Mr. Hall. Mr. Hall voted for the misnamed “The Affordable Care Act,” which passed without one Republican vote. Not one. In order to get it passed President Obama issued an Executive order banning public funding of abortion, thus gaining the votes of so called Pro Life Democrats to pass this Act, we can now safely declare from this point forward that a Pro Life Democrat has lost all credibility. As of last week federal dollars are available to subsidize abortion on demand. Either President Obama lied, or the Pro Life Democrats were taken for a ride. I humbly ask any fact checker to prove me wrong.
I love the United States of America. I love learning about the innovation that created, even in the dark depths of the depression or this Great Recession, the highest standard of living of all the nations, as it will again. I love being a citizen in a country that is always on the cusp of the next breakthrough that will change the world as we know it. Yet, I’m not blind to the reality that with each bill that John Hall votes for, puts our economic engine into full reverse, and thus stifles the innovation that makes all of this possible. This country always figures it out seemingly at the last possible second. Why? Because we try everything else out first while preserving the freedom and the liberty to fix it. I will be doing my part by voting for Nan Hayworth, this congress needs a little help with it’s reading glasses, maybe then they will start reading the bills they pass, who better to send them then a former eye doctor!
Well, let's see. I don't know what this "effective" tax rate means unless you get combat pay, but did you include your FICA and Medicare fees? As far as my state goes, we pay from seven to nine percent income tax on top of the federal taxes, and an eight-to-ten percent sales tax. Then there are the property taxes, energy taxes, about six hundred bucks a year for vehicle registration and "road use tax"…
Can't wait for the VAT tax. However, I must disagree on the poor. If you make under $50,000, file jointly, and have kids, the other taxpayers pay you. At least on the income portion. From what I've heard.
I thought they still had to pay taxes.
I'm hanging on a sliver.
The voter rolls should be purged before every election. Period.
Sounds like you are a conservative. Are you just saying contradictory things to just get a reaction?
But Obama is driving people into the desert, not leading them from it. He's the antithesis of anything Biblical. I doubt he's ever even read a word of any Bible, even though he swore his allegiance on Lincoln's Bible at his inauguration. He's doing everything to break the country apart whereas Lincoln would have done anything to keep it together.
I'd be DAMNED if a one term socialist disaster like Okenyan would drive me away from my country, regardless if I was working abroad.
I will drive him away first.
Renouncing one's American citizenship is forever – Obama is a passing situation – like crap through a goose.
ya. you're naturally tough, you're an American. hang in Holly it's gonna be a rip roaring bounce back when all these onerous taxes and government are shed from our shoulders. watch.
Hey how those Styrofaom temples looking to all you Obama losers, these days? I epidemy of stupidity. Shows you what hate can really do for the mind. Liberals and progressives have used the same trick for some time on you useful idiots.
Agree, Jimmy Carter was just crap through a goose. Obama is just bigger turds America has to shot out.
Anybody seen that Carter favorite, synfuels? What a waste of money all this socialism is in the end.
Agreed, but I think everything passed during this Congress should be repealed ASAP! For one thing, few of the legislators even bothered to read the bills, all of which seem to have been written by special interests. Note that this latest Dodd-Frank swindle exempted most of the root cause(s) of the financial meltdown (Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac).
I'd agree on the flat tax, with the caveat that the tax be collected by individual state department(s) of revenue and forwarded to the federal government, and that the 16th Amendment be repealed and the IRS abolished. My preference for the Fair Tax Act is primarily based on that repeal/abolition, and on the fact that the federal income tax code is the machinery of corruption that keeps most of the K Street lobbyists in business and career politicians entrenched.
This will sound weird but follow me here. We need a fiscal BUZZSAW to do four years as president, who would team up with a willing Congress and finally. and without the pressure from the socialist media and howling of the sacred cows and Democrats, and just start cutting. CUT IT ALL. Do what families facing a crisis do, CUT SPENDING.
GOP, Democrat, that pos socialist Sanders in Vermont, screw 'em all. Leave no fat uncut. Pare these omnibus spending bill GOLIATHS down to size.
Cut EVERYBODY, Defense, Welfare, foreign aid, NO EXCEPTIONS. Our defict would shrink almost immediately and then all the benefits from cutting the debt would begin, eased credit markets, way HIGHER CONSUPTION by America consumers, rising tax revenue (a simple concept that Democrats can't grasp) and economic growth. Reagan showed us the way, he wqas burderned by an idiotic Congress that RAISED spending behind him to SPEND the new revenue.
We need the ANTI-OBAMA – 2012.
Well my wife is an Aussie and plans to keep her OZ citizenship. My daughter is now Half-Aussie and OZ will accept her Out of Country birth for citizenship. Which is cool.
So I have a place to run to if need be, only problem is it's on the other side of the planet. Not far enough it seems from Tax and spenders in Washington! o.O!
You're 100% right! and would you believe that it can't be done without a formal request from an elected official? That's what has to change. I hope someone in the GOP will take up this glitch and fix it to apply across the whole nation, the way that you said, purge the rolls after every election. We'll see. At least requiring valid I.D. would help keep it honest.
It's kind of hard for noblama to renounce something i'm not convinced he EVER had. That citizenship thing.
What am I doing to contradict myself? I feel that I am pretty consistent.
It's not as simple as socialism v.s. capitalism. It's also about the authoritarian nature of governance coming out of Washington D.C. that ignores constitutional limits on federal authority and the powers inherent to the states. The constitution has become a rag used by crony jingoist politicians to give themselves patriotic appearances all the while it's ignored, muted, twisted, or vanquished by populist hysteria. States today are virtually powerless in the face of brute federal demands of every kind. The federal government extorts taxpayer monies, expropriating it to pay off their cronies in the Washington circle of special interests and lobbyists. Washington is a mass of corrupt self serving power groups who don't give a damn about the American people or the future of this nation. Good luck to those fleeing the arch criminals running Washington and their venal corruption of that masterfully inspired document that's inspired free Americans of conscience for generations.
I got to ask, do only crazy conservatives have the right to representation? Screw the other half of the voters/tax payers?
I would love to leave, but I cannot figure out where I would go. There's not a country on this planet that I'm aware of that isn't already embroiled in the Socialism that threatens our country. And the language has to be either English or French, too, lol.
I wasn't one of them, that's for sure!
On the income tax portion, you're right. My husband and I actually make just over $63,000/year, and we don't pay much taxes with all our deductions for kids, mortgage, etc. However, no one escapes the other taxes, I'm not even sure about the elderly or disabled. I don't think that tipping should be considered as a tax, since it's voluntary, but the others are valid.
I am not American but id like to comment on this, a few months ago the WSJ wrote something on this issue. As someone who works with many travelers, mostly US based I get to hear very interesting things.
I have been doing this for 12 years, and only in the past 2 years did I notice this huge talk from the wealthy about relocating outside the US.
When I ask the non rich they laugh and say never would they move, but almost all the rich Americans talk about it and many have.
I don’t understand to tax law at all, and im only in contact with this many Americans because of my job (I speak 4 languages and assist in tons of travel all over the world).
For many they yell its taxes other say just too many laws that involve tieing them up in court forever. I heard it all but never seen so many act upon what they say and actually move.
cont.
The UK thing is interesting as none of the americans mentioned that as an option or ever moved there.
Last week I met this client who is in his 40's he lived in NYC and sold his apt. for 4 million dollars. I saw the listing and was amazed how such a small place goes for 4 million. But the point is he showed me photos of his new place he got in the Dominican Republic and it was huge and new and private. Hes someone who was vacationing there for 7 years a few times a year and speaks Spanish. Hes happy, looks better and that’s all that matters.
But yeah when regular workers are the clients here, they rave about gov. benefits they get and all that and love the USA, the rich I can say almost all of them want out, I never thought the day would come when I would hear that.
Many are leaving the UK too so its not just a us thing.
What gov. are forgetting is that many of the countries who where not up to date years ago are now very up to date and with so many people vacationing all over they start getting ideas, and they are more open minded to leaving.
cont.
I dont blame the poor for being upset on the rich on doing this, its even more scarier that for every rich guy that leaves someone else will have to pick up his tax tab.
Just like no one saw or few saw the real estate bubble coming, the mass exit by the rich from the usa is something that many don’t see now, companies are doing it and private people are too. At least the private people that matter financially to a country.
Countries that are smart, will make it easier for good Americans to relocate there, its a opportunity to really grow a country on expats. To many countries make it hard to relocate there, they are losing out on a serious opportunity.
What I don't understand is this- in NC, you can register to vote at the DMV (where you get your drivers license, state ID, etc)…but yet to vote, you don't *have* to show those very forms of ID. The "wtf" factor is unreal.
It would be best if all Americans stayed and fought against the onslaught of our freedoms…We
will need everyone….Obumble and his crew of idiots will do anything and everything to pass their
crap before January of 2011 when the new Congress takes over…….
What Obama and Congress really need to start worrying about is if Americans living HERE in America begin to renounce their citizenship and just stop listening to Washington. Hmmm, they have a term for that, don't they? Oh yes, it's called CIVIL WAR! You can't keep pushing Americans the way Obama and Congress are doing and expect nothing to happen. You are seeing the reactions start to take place in real time with this insane law suit against Arizona. This situation has a great possibility of spinning out of control and Obama doesn't seem to care in the least. What happens if there is a Federal ruling against Arizona and the entire state just decides to ignore the ruling? The same thing is happening now with the "Sanctuary Cities." There are Federal laws against illegal immigration, but the Sanctuary Cities choose to ignore those laws. Why can't the same thing happen here in reverse, with Arizona just not listening to Washington?
I can't see leaving my country either and I will stand and fight against tyranny for freedom and liberty until the end. However, I have to agree with Sawdustking. If I had a company which between the foreign and USA tax rates surpassed my profits, what would be my incentive to continue my business? Especially when the current admin demonizes every business making a profit these days. They call them hateful, evil names but are more than happy to confiscate their money.
pnipni, here's a question for you to ponder. In small town America many Seniors vote with
the assistance of their grown children or relatives. Some of these folks, perhaps many of
them are suffering from dementia and don't know what day of the week it is, don't know who
the POTUS is, but vote by mail, vote early, or even at the polls. A few years back I witnessed
a former high-school classmate bring her mother to the polls in our very small community
and help her vote on a paper ballot. The poor old thing didn't even know where she was, and
didn't know anyone who spoke to her before or after she voted, people she had known for
over 50 years. Just think of the opportunities for fraud in assisted living facilities and nursing
homes.
Bologna. This government doesn't own me. I own myself. I will go wherever my rational self-interest takes me.
sorry there Jimmy but ,….
ya don't go to a" Five and Ten",……
to steal a million.,…………..
LA, NY, Chicago, SF, Atlanta,………
and the winner is,………..
"…….Americans Voting with their Feet to Escape Obama Tax Oppression,…….."
I see absolutely no difference between this scum and,…………..
the Canadian escaping draft dodging scum of the 60's.
You use the expression “save bucks” as if to minimize the real meaning of confiscatory taxes.
Money is the closest thing there is in this world to STORED TIME.
We literally spend our lives earning it.
Confiscation is robbing us of our lives…the time we spend with our friends and family…the time we give to philanthropy…the time we spend helpin others… or simply appreciating the world.
I met this man once and,……….
his name was Jamesb,……….
he wasn't the only Jamesb I have met in my life,…….but,……..
there hasn't been that many,……..
are you serious Jimmy,……..??????
where is this lightning bolt coming from…….?????
So what's to prevent the US Gvt from going after the 'amnestied' newly minted US citizens for taxes, after
they decide they want to go back to MX to live? Could this be the reason these illegals are not crazy about
the idea of garnering US citizenship?
Perhaps they worry that the US Tax Code and the IRS will hound them the rest of their days? Recently our
tax system has been such that they had no worry about owing any tax, but with the flight of the wealthy from
the US our Gvt will become ever more desperate for money, to the point of property confiscation IMO.
We should cut off the free stuff and make sure the candidates for amnesty totally understand the full ramifi-
cations of US citizenship. Sharing the burden of our Gvt will become their right and duty as citizens. They
should be educated to the possibility of our tax laws changing from favorable in their current circumstance,
to unfavorable in the very near future.
After all, who the HELL wants to join a company/country that has just declared bankruptcy? Don't we all
know that is just around the bend for the US?
Believe me, the statement was rhetorical–with or without proof of American citizenship, we both know that Obama is no American.
No, STS, I'm not trying to minimize anything–I work for a living, just as every other poster here does. As you know, unreasonable taxation attributed to the Revolutionary War. I understand our antecedents were strapped for cash, too–but their freedom was more important to them. So should ours be, and that's just what's at stake now. We weren't born American to flee when the going gets tough. Our job is to act nobly, for ourselves and for our descendants–our monetary needs will be taken care of: we're a nation under God, remember?
Leave, then, and take your rational self-interests with you. We'll help you pack.
Your original statement is good and accurate. I was referring to all the other ones you leave. It seems most who earn a negative score here are just out to stir it up and not have an intelligent dialogue.
Point taken. Not arguing that we should not stay and fight — simply that it's not only about saving $.
Thos $ represent our freedoms's also.
To chicago ralph
History repeats itself
in the 1300's when the black death / black plague hit, many of the rich saved themselves by running away, the poor here angry and looked down on them, the bottom line is they survived.
In the 1930's many smart people saw whats happening in germany and they left, that includes albert einstein in 1933, again many hated on that and even newspapers where making fun of those people, I wonder who made out better.
Yes in the 60's many decided they didnt want no part in the war and they left, those people have no regrets, the ones who did go have much regret, especially given the nasty treatment vets gets worldwide even thou they are the reason we can even walk in the streets.
cont.
Here we are again, the wealthy say enough is enough, people who who say yeah fight the gov. are fools, the gov of the usa / uk have set it up in a way where you cant do nothing. So a smart person sees the past, the current and future and makes a move, he dont care what who thinks, the rest will be left to deal with the craziness.
The people in the travel business know first about people moving, as they first do several dry runs all over the place, anyone who deals with international travel especially on a corporate level will be able to confirm what im saying.
I have family in the states, I only hope for the best, but we know what hope alone gets ya. Even moses needed to lift his stick to get the sea to part, hope alone dont work, you need to make an effort, a physical effort.
Relinquishing your citizenship is irrevocable. To stay and fight is what made America what it originally stood for. I can understand why expats do what they do. Most have already cut most ties to the US, and are only holding back as an escape route. I'm more of a fight to regain our rights as affirmed in the founding documents.
In order to keep our freedoms we need to be actively fighting for our freedoms. Even the founders knew this as they said freedom must be renewed from time to time with the blood of patriots.
If ever there was a need for term limits, the last 18 months have re-inforced that need. Career politicians spend more time and money on getting re-elected than they do anything else. In congress 6 two year terms equals 12 years, in the senate 2 six year terms equals 12 years. By making both houses equal in maiximum time of service, we would save millions due to wasteful spending. We also maintain the basis of control by retaining normal re-elction cycles, that way the people still have the ability to make changes for wayward representatives.
tax statistics are obviously not your forte.
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