ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care Bill?
by Dan Mitchell
Writing for Forbes, Bruce Bartlett puts forth an interesting hypothesis that healthcare legislation could have been made better (hopefully he meant to write “less destructive”) if the GOP had been willing to compromise with Democrats:
Democrats desperately wanted a bipartisan bill and would have given a lot to get a few Republicans on board. This undoubtedly would have led to enactment of a better health bill than the one we are likely to get. But Republicans never put forward an alternative health proposal. Instead, they took the position that our current health system is perfect just as it is.
Bruce makes several compelling points in the article, especially when he notes that it will be virtually impossible to repeal a bad bill after 2010 or 2012, but there are good reasons to disagree with his analysis. First, he is wrong in stating that Republicans were united against any compromise. Several GOP senators spent months trying to negotiate something less objectionable, but those discussions were futile. Also, I’m not sure it’s correct to assert Republicans took a the-current-system-is-perfect position.
They may not have offered a full alternative (they did have a few good reforms such as allowing the purchase of insurance across state lines), but their main message was that the Democrats were going to make the current system worse. Strikes me as a perfectly reasonable position, one that I imagine Bruce shares. But let’s further explore Bruce’s core hypothesis: Would compromise have generated a better bill? It’s possible, to be sure, but there are also several reasons why that approach may have backfired:
1. It’s not clear a policy of compromise would have produced a less-objectionable bill. Would Senate Democrats have made more concessions to Grassley and Snowe rather than Lieberman and Nelson (much less whether the “concessions” would have been good policy)? And even if Reid made some significant (and positive) concessions, is there any reason to think those reforms would have survived a conference committee with the House? Yet the compromising Republicans probably would have felt invested in the process and obliged to support the final bill – even if the conference committee produced something worse than the original Senate Democrat proposal.
2. A take-no-prisoners strategy may be high risk, but it can produce high rewards. In the early 1990s, the Republicans took a no-compromise position when fighting Bill Clinton’s health plan (aka, Hillarycare), and that strategy was ultimately successful. We still don’t know the final result of this battle (much less how events would have transpired with a different strategy), but if the long-term goal is to minimize government expansion, a no-compromise approach is perfectly reasonable.
3. A principled opposition to government-run healthcare will help win other fights. The Democrats ultimately may win the healthcare battle, but the leadership will have been forced to spend lots of time and energy, and also use up lots of political chits. Does anyone now think they can pass a “climate change” bill? The answer, almost certainly, is no.
4. A principled approach can be good politics, which can eventually lead to good policy. Democrats wanted a few Republicans on board in part to help give them political cover. The aura of bipartisanship would have given Democrats a good talking point for the 2010 elections (”my opponent is being unreasonable since even X Republicans also supported the legislation”). That fig leaf does not exist now, which makes it more likely that Democrats will pay a heavy price during the mid-term elections. It is impossible to know whether 2010 will be a 1994-style rout, or whether the newly-elected Republicans will quickly morph into Bush-style big-government conservatives (who often do more damage to liberty than Democrats), but at least there is a reasonable likelihood of more pro-liberty lawmakers.
When all is said and done, Bruce’s strategy is not necessarily wrong, but it does guarantee defeat. Government gets bigger and freedom diminishes. For reasons of principle and practicality, Republicans should do the right thing.





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251 Comments
let em own this POS legislation. The Republicans haven't taken a principled stand without compromise in a decade and a half and it most certainly has backfired on the party. As Gen. George Patton said "Better to die for something than to live for nothing".
Indeed. Let Ahab have his damned white whale when it drags them screaming into the depths.
You can not negotiate your principles, period!
The way I remember it is the negotiations took place behind closed doors thanks to Mr. Reid's.
I agree, it was time they took the high road. They were finally listening to "We the People".
"Democrats desperately wanted a bipartisan bill"… WAKE THE F UP! They wanted to share the midterm election fallout. I am proud of the Republicans to have finally grown a spine and realized that no matter how nice you are to the demakunts, that they will always stab you in the back! Lets quit being nice.
Bruce Bartlett, how do I know you're lying? Two words: Tort Reform.
ABSOLUTELY NOT-
This disengenuous statist power-n-tax grab is to be resisted at every step, diluted at any opportunity, and if any of it is passed… a prompt repeal of ObamaCare shall be mine -and millions of others'- litmus test for the GOPs candidate in 2012.
And if nobody is man enough to pledge it's repeal, Sarah Palin will–
http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com...
The only solution is to tell the socialist democrats and the spineless RINOs that we’ve had enough their deceptive deceit and corruption. Its time to stand up, find these career-politician tyrants in gross violation of their Constitutional Oaths and purge them from the halls of our government.
1) Require your State’s Elected Representatives to convene a Constitutional Convention for the sole purpose of modifying Amendment XVII to read, “Representatives and Senators of the U.S. Congress, elected by the people thereof, for two years and six years respectively for a “maximum of two terms…”
2) Reject all career-politicians running for re-election. They have become corrupt and no longer fit for Leadership or Statesmanship. They are, in fact, a scourge upon the land.
3) Recruit and elect true representatives of We, the People… Citizen Professionals who have demonstrated excellence in management, performance, integrity, patriotism, pride and optimism, chivalry and civility for a maximum of two terms to re-establish the public service model of our Founding Fathers… Leadership, Statesmanship, Dignity, Honor and Duty.
DanStlMo's comment are words to live for and die for!!!!!!!
How do you compromise with a Dictatorship? They could have put forward a 100 page common sense health care reform bill. The only issue is, this crop of GOP Senators don't have common sense.
They all need to go to! No incumbent can be allowed to continue in office.
“But what about this guy or this gal in DC? They are a good person they are looking out for me/us”. Really, do you believe that? What has that individual deemed good done while this country is on fire? Time has come for the Pelosis, Reids, McCaines, Boxers, Specters, Kasichs, Steeles, Kennedys(RIP), Boehnars, Leibermans, Murthas, Kucinichs etc etc etc. more or less anyone in DC that is a household name or been in office greater than 8yrs TO GO. You have to see the truth by now they aren’t working for you! They are working for themselves, look at how much money they had when they got into office compared to what they have now, most are multi millionaires. They are getting richer while many US citizens are getting poorer, losing their jobs, homes everything. Yes again even the politicians people deem are "good", you know the "so and so has been around for 10yrs (whatever) is a good guy or gal they aren’t corrupt", they need to go as well.
Ask yourself this question honestly what has "so and so" done to change anything?
Nothing they sat in DC whining and NEVER took a major stand to bring things to a halt to make real change. Those in DC that are deemed good people are just as bad because they sat back and let things happen they voted yes/no when it was against their true opinion only to satisfy party lines. We need people in DC that will stand up and say “NO this is bull***t enough already”! Fact is as of today there is NO ONE in DC saying or doing that, we are all on our own to make the changes this country needs. “We the people” must use unconventional means through http://www.savingtherepublic.com to get the real change for America.
Patton also said when men were men, “The lowest form of life is a politician. The lowest form of a politician is a liberal democrat (with an Ivy League law degree).” () my emphasis.
It seems we are to assume when some thug is robbing us, we should hand him our valuables, so he will not have to exert himself, and presumable will only gut shoot us rather than kill us outright, sounds like a typical resistance is futile, surrender and we will be compassionate ploy.
I only have one disagreement with you rdman. We should NOT convene a Constitutional Convention because the rules state that once it happens EVERYTHING is open for amendment, NOT just the one thing you are wanting to change. We the people HAVE term limits in our hand. We just have to educate ourselves about the candidates and VOTE! I agree they should never EVER be in for more than two terms, but that is OUR responsibility!
No, they shouldn't have negotiated at all, Dem plan is to pass anything and then add to it later. All they wanted was a foot in the door AND to collect our taxes upfront.
What a bunch of crooks.
Ah, I may be just an average mom, working a part-time job, but even I know that Republicans offered up SEVERAL reforms. I READ ALL OF THEM. How can anyone say that the Republicans chose to do or offer up nothing? It's insulting to those of us who read the reform proposals online. If these proposals don't even get a hearing, how is it possible to say Republicans weren't being cooperative.
I'm glad this healthcare bill is owned by Democrats. I became an Independent after this past election because I'm conservative first. This isn't about supporting the team, but it's about being honest about sharing best ideas and observing the lessons from history.
Then we need to change the Law to read… modification in pertinent part. Regarding terms, politicians depend on our short memories… maximum of two terms needs to be written into Law.
I'm sick and tired of people telling us we have to be reasonable and negotiate away what we believe. It's time to stand and fight for what we believe. The Democrats chose this brinksmanship game, thinking that they had overwhelming, unchecked power to do as they please. It's time to remind them in 2010 that they don't.
We need to stop talking about whether the 2010 election will change things, and start doing the hard work to make sure that it does. That means getting engaged in volunteer work and fundraising to support better candidates early in the primary process, and to make sure between now and August that they have such a commanding lead through widespread and enthusiastic popular support that we flip the balance of power in both the House and Senate in November – and so that the Dems already see it coming by July 4 like an unstoppable train that is going to blow them off the rails in a truly horrific, unprecedented, crushing election defeat.. We need to make sure that the comparisons are not to 1994, but rather that future generations will remember 2010.
Stop talking about it, and go for it in your own district! Make it your job to ensure their defeat. http://www.SurgeUSA.org
The only things non-reversable are death, Obama's defeat in 2012 and Charlie Sheens next mug shot.
This piece of anti-Americanism called a health bill, this celebration of all that is wrong with our
educational system, this stone tied to lying Democrats necks, this slide into a painfully uncomfortable
retirement for our elderly. I won't go on as this year shows such promise. If the newly elected Republicans
want to make history and finish the job our 94 batch attempted they will remove every vestige of this bill, should it pass. Let the demos bring it up again and secure the future of the Republican Party/read conservative/ for the next 40 years.
Term Limits written into Law because:
Politicians have become experts at deceitful duplicity, selling their calculated positions to a public to the point where We, The People can no longer tell a fabricated image from a real person. Citizen voters are so seduced by the slick package that they often do not realize that there is nothing in it… the package is the message.
when you cut peoples heads off and go after anyone who stands aganist you then you have power…
WAKE UP AMERICA !!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/02/denmar...
To Democrats, bi-partisanship means having Republicans provide their alibi for the heist, just like back in that toddlin town.
Its simply untrueful to say that the Repubicans didn't try to be involved in the drafting of a health care bill. They suggested ammendments and offered counter proposals. The EXTREME LEFT simply was uncompromising and shot every Republican attempt to modify this bill down!
What Americans want are common-sense, responsible solutions that address the rising cost of health care and other major problems. Republicans’ have emphasized common-sense reforms that will lower health care costs and expand access to quality care without a government takeover of our nation’s health care system that kills jobs, raises taxes on small businesses, or cuts Medicare for seniors:
Republicans have suggested the following reforms:
■Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.
■Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.
■Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.
■Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.
Democrats opposed every one of the above.
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We should have a more transparent government – and those who hold dual-citizenship like Rahm Emanuel (who even served a foreign military!) should be exposed. There is no room for divided loyalty in our government.
No, no , and HELL NO! Anyway you look at it, this legislation is a sugar coated turd. When you lick off the chocolatly outside, you are still left with a POS. It is better for the Republicans to stay away from this crapfest and figure out how they can redact it in the event it does get shoved through.
Remember: bipartisanship is conservatives sacrificing their principles for liberal causes. Never, ever compromise. http://tinyurl.com/yzntoed
To quote a line from Ronald Reagan's first inagural address, "Government can't fix a problem because government is the problem".
Given the recent behavior of these entrenched despotic tyrants who believe they are a law unto themselves, cynically living in the world of realpolitik, referring to We, The People as “Mobs” should be chilling.
These people are not concerned with their standing in the polls. They are not afraid of protest demonstrations. They have their plan to stay in power, come hell or high water. Their plan has already been tested and they won!!
We need only to look South to the Marxist tactics used by Chavez in Venezuela, Ortega in Nicaragua, Morales in Bolivia. Then look to the North… FRANKEN in MINNESOTA.
If they can succeed in electing an unqualified, radical SNL clown, re-electing any entrenched Leftist such as Boxer, Pelosi, Dodd, Frank, Leahy, et al is a done deal. All they have to do is mobilize ACORN and Union thugs to their districts, then hire the other useful Marxist idiot, Jimmy Carter to declare a “fair and legal” election.
(OR)
Create another national crisis, then declare MARTIAL LAW!
I will not vote for, and actively oppose any Republican who has anything to do with the present health care abomination. Eventually, however, small government advocates will have to find some way to reform the health care system along market lines. The alternative will be eventually getting the Mussolini approved single payer version.
The age of compromise and bipartisanship is over. The line in the sand has been drawn and it's time to take a side.
Nazi! The Furor awaits you in hell…
Oh,boy…If I were Senator Grassley…that's one photo (the one above) I'd want destroyed ! Yikes! Imagine the COOTIES that come with that Baucus handshake.
Senator G.: Get thee to the Senate Clinic for testing and a vaccination immediately.
Once again, we see how those branded Muslim "extremists" are our ideological brothers moreso than you are willing to admit. Don't they believe in dying for a cause? Why is that critisized? Oh, that's right, because our Zionist-run media doesn't happen to like THAT cause.
The modern Nazi state, complete with those who call themselves the Chosen Ones and carrying out ethnic cleansing and speaking of a "homeland", is Israel.
You do not, indeed cannot, negotiate with people who lie, cheat, bribe, steal, and meet in back rooms to plot ways to screw you over.
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Ima.
Ima who?
Ima gonna destroy America, and want you to share the blame.
Fuggitit, Ima. We'll "negotiate" at the polls in November.
Obami, Harry Reid, Pelosi, et al
Despite their duplicity and deviousness, the career-politician-bureaucrat may trip themselves up because part of their need for vindictive triumph includes the desire for their opposition to know who victimized them. Their need for attention may become their nemesis. However, the career-politician-bureaucrat doesn’t care. Public adoration by the unaware or condemnation and notoriety gives them the attention they crave… being admired, feared or despised affirms that they exist with godly power and control.
Pray that we have a fair and legal 2010 election…
To be clear, you think those with foreign ties should be able to operate in secret and manipulate our foreign policy from within our government?
Your statement is all telling of your Neo Nazi ties.
Deu 14:2 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
God's own words….but then I imagine a sociopath has no need for God.
"healthcare legislation could have been made better if gop had been willing to compromise'. Kind of like its better to be stabbed than shot. it isn't compromise when you give up your own principles and the other side gives nothing, that is abdication, at least now the dems own this abomination, let it be their albatross. We can only hope real conservatives will keep this out front come election time . notice i didn't say republicans i said conservatives, too many republicans turn soft in the hope of being liked . I would rather be right and hated than wrong and liked
CIte yourself….
I glad they didn't. Every amendment that they tried to offer wasn't even considered. I'm glad this stinker is totally owned by the liberals. When the American people learn just how badly they are screwed, maybe we will be rid of the likes of dictators Pelosi, Reid etal. Can't happen soon enough for me. BTW, anyone besides me wonder just how many votes the democrats "stole" from the senior citizens by telling them that republicans would take away their social security and medicare? Now we see who is actually doing it! Seniors, it is your duty, according to Tom Daschle, to be more accepting or your illnesses and death! Just die and get it over with!!!!
You mean Sarah Palin, right? She didn't even last a full term as governor of a tiny state. I'm sure the American people will not give her the chance to do to us what she did to them. She is more like a leopard than a fox, and leopards never change their spots.
Exactly, that's how you know they're all lying.
It's time for constitutional conservatives. The latest polling, just a few weeks ago, shows that 20% of Americans self-classify as liberal, 20% are VERY conservative, and 40% are conservative. Conservatives are the overwhelming majority. HOw is it, then, that the news media keep telling US that WE have to constantly compromise our principles? This is part of the brain-washing campaign to steal the liberty of the American People on straw on the camel's back at a time.
I can't think of a better way to waste my vote than to give it to a politician — of either party — that won't support my principles once elected! I, and millions of other Americans like me, will NEVER vote again for a RINO. I may never vote Republican again. I grew sick of holding my nose — its just lead us down an ever-more-slippery slope toward tyranny — and its hard to breathe in a Republic that STINKS!
Republicans never negotiated in good faith. They would offer up amendments but would never offer to support final passage of the bill in return for consideration for inclusion of their ideas. There is no way to negotiate with people like that… they can only be defeated.
That's right.
Bring it!
On one point the author and I completely agree:
"if the long-term goal is to minimize government expansion, a no-compromise approach is perfectly reasonable"
But if on the other hand the long-term goal had been to expand affordable health care to more Americans, then that approach become reprehensible.
Does that include Ben Nelson?
Another great idea suggested by the conservatives that wasn't even considered. Lawyers are one of the dems' biggest donors. Can't have the lawyers grabbing less $$$, but we can surely put the screws to the MD'S who are taking care of the populus.
Many have.
You are right on, the Republicans had a bill and I think it was less than 400 pages, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but they had tort reform, insurance available across state lines plus quite a few other ideas. The tort reform no way in h___l would have had a chance as the lawyers have the Dhim's in their back pocket!!! I say let em own it!!!
The Conservative Edge
You know….Sarah Palin really had no choice but resign because of onerous ethics complaints filed by the other side whereas the legal bills were over 500k plus the time it took for her staff to research all that silly stuff. She did the right thing for her and for the state. She actually got more done in the little time she was Governor cleaning out the corruption even on her own party plus a lot of other things. Read her book and educate yourself mikatollah!!!
The Conservative Edge
We need to stop people, who pay no taxes, but are drains on the taxpayers from having a say in the elections too. They vote themselves an income every election, an unearned one at that.
We all have choices to make in our lives and we live with the consequences. It looks to me like she was happy to stick around for the good times, but couldn't be bothered to govern when things got tough.
Half the battle of being an executive is mental toughness, and if she ever runs for national office in a general election, we are going to pillory her with the quitter tag. And it won't be just the Democrats who pile on. Her primary opponents are going to soften her up with it for us.
Righard Nixon… quitter. Bill Clinton… not a quitter. Mental toughness.
She probably won't ever try to run for office again. She is having way too much fun acting as a right wing spokes model.
I an no proponent of Government involvement in healthcare. I could spend a few lines here explaining the fact that it is unconstitutional ect. etc. but today I will let you hear from who said it best…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs
Franken wasn't elected. ACORN helped him steal it. Coleman came out ahead on election night by several hundred votes. By the time they "found" ballots in car trunks and along the side of the road, Franken managed to get ahead. There is no honor among thieves. If the liberals do not win fairly and squarely, they sue until they do win. Coleman's election was stolen, and the ACORN member who helped the governor of Washington state steal her election, helped Franken. Now we are seeing the clown who took that election in his nasty, snide glory in our senate. Minnesota, surely you can do better than this.
I agree. He nailed it.
Why should they? Final passage of the bill would probably never have their amendment in it once they "sold" their vote like many dems did. They didn't need to offer support of the final passage until they actually "SAW" the final bill, which they never did. It was locked up in King Harry's dirty office. Come on, people. GET REAL! Surely you aren't that STUPID!
I agree completely. Some of these candidates may not be "perfect" either, but if we can stop the devastation to the country and the start to get more "perfect" candiates, it is the only practical way to defeat this Progessive death march. I have supproted Col. Allen West, Chuck Devore and the effort to give Neslon the heave ho ( as an object lesson to all politicians).
The only thing that is ever negotiated is your price, because once you negotiate, everybody knows what you are.
Many parts of this bill are UNCONSTITUTIONAL! The equal protection clause for one. Another is Dirty Harry's inclusion in the bill that no part of the bill can ever be rescinded by future congresses. He has no authority to tie the hands of future congresses. I see no where in the constitution that the federal government has the power to require people to "Buy" anything either. My prayer is that honest AG's will file suit over every part of this mess that they deem unconstitutional and hope for an honest, impartial judge to judge the cases.
I agree with all the GOP points above Wes, I'm just not sure even GOP Governors would give
approval of the sale of Ins. across state lines. This reduces the power of Govs. significantly
in the area of interstate authority. Not an insignificant source of state power.
I also doubt Nbr 4 had any chance even among Republicans as the source of funds, granted
mostly in favor of Dems. Is almost the thrid rail of politics. I understand they were offered as
reforms but knowing they wouldn't succeed. Politics thy name is sleaze.
Actually "mikatollah's" posts evidence just such……
Dumb here does have a point. My posts do speak to my "stupidness". Check em out.
media is mostly members of the chamber of commerce..talk about a conflict of interest.
the republican are nothing more than allies of the democrats..
That's not how the system works haden. The AG defends the law of the land from legal attacks from teabaggers who can't win at the polls, so they sue.
The republicans have grown a spine ? where is this spine? I need a good laugh..
"But Republicans never put forward an alternative health proposal. Instead, they took the position that our current health system is perfect just as it is."
Bruce Bartlett – YOU LIE!
I've picked my side Paul, and I'm ready to throw down and take on all teabaggers.
You are on the wrong side of history on this one.
where is the demands to send the illegals home and secure our border? this should be the first step in HC reform.
After passing Medicare, congressional Democrats were rewarded at the polls for a generation. I'm willing to bet that health care reform will be equally rewarded by voters.
Conservatives often find themselves on the wrong side of history, and this issue in no exception.
No. The bill will be the death of the Dems in 2010 and 2012.
Speak no evil of a fellow republican?
My interpretation is go ahead pay for the hooker, and don’t tell his wife. These are people I want to trust. NO
Political Contributions are good.
My interpretation is: a politician is caught in a motel room with a naked woman NOT his wife. They will say it is innocent.. I say BS
BO is Just another government party member enjoying the wealth and power of government.
The only things the republicans are crying about is their cut is smaller. The real people getting screwed are my fellow serfs that are stuck with the bill and a real mess to clean up.
The republicans and democrats are allies and they use the power and wealth of the government to maintain power and feed their corruption.
The truth is, the republicans did provide a plan of their own to help reduce the costs of health care. The truth is the Republicans did begin in committee working with democrats until it was proven that the only goal was to socialize medicine and grow government.
Couldn't agree more. If I were he, I'd be ashamed to act so stupidly.
You should think longer term.
I agree wholeheartedly. I'd be ashamed to act as "stupidly." Mikatollah must get his info from MSNBC. Had republicans sold their votes by agreeing to "offer support" to the final passage before seeing the bill, I'd have said that was "stupid" too. I'm glad the dems own this mess all by themselves. I'll bet Mikatollah signs everything he obligates himself to before reading it, also.
It's starting: Bloomberg reports that the Arizona Mayo Clinic will no longer accept Medicare because they lose too much money:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&a...
If it was up you a$$ you would know were it was. Quit trolling you puke!
Now go pop your zits in your basement bedroom before Mum calls you to dinner.
Your stimulas dollars at work. Coming soon to a message board near you "attack of the trolls" brought to you by our good friends at akorn. Every person in this country has coverage. Walk in to an emergency room and see the signs on how you are covered. As always libs miss the point and there is no need to argue it
Not based on this so called "healthcare" legislation. This is purely a Democrat(SS) power grab.
It's a Euro-style paradigm shift – to the Democrat(SS) left. In Europe middle of the road moderates are considered right wingers. Pure doctrinaire socialists are run-of-the-mill lefties.
For example Obama isn't LEFT enough to be a Euro-socialist.
This Obamacare bill is about EXPANDING government thus EXPANDING the Demon-crat(SS) power/voter base.
Who do you think are going to all these Federal Government jobs? Unionized lemmings and Democrat minions.
Hell yeah they should negotiate for some of Barry’s stash! …oh that’s right that’s our money …tell’em to take a hike!
It was the Land of Caanan idiot, the Land of the Israelites.
THe Israeli people have been living in modern day Palestine since about 2000 B.C.
Predates Islam by at least 1500 YEARS!
Get a book that isn't Mein Kampf.
Nah, his God was Himmler….
It's just not the priority right now and it's far too expensive. The gov't is spending way way too much money, including Bush, and we need to get back to basics to lower the debt and deficits. The simplest way to have truly increased competition in the healthcare insurance industry (if that's really what the Dems wanted) would be to have forced states to allow Americans to buy healthcare insurance across state borders…..I can't name a single other good or service that has that restriction. Auto insurance has come down in the past decade thanks to more competition and the internet for ecommerce….yet I can't buy health insurance in the same way. THE reason why the Dems won't allow it is because it truly would increase competition and allow the free market to expand and offer much lower/competitive rates across the country. A reform bill without that simple lifting of the in-state only restriction isn't real reform….and tort reform too. But the Dems just want to regulate and restrict, and control the industry by proxy, with the ultimate goal of a gov't option or single payer. Americans aren't stupid and it's why the support for the bill dropped and dropped as more came out about it. Gov't is failing us, regardless of party affiliation.
Like Clinton? How 'bout his wife?
Bartlett claims that Republicans took the position "that our current health care system is perfect just the way it is." Can he name a single Republican who said anything close to that?
For the first time in ages the Republican party stood together for what is right. They are being brandished as the "Party of No" which is too bad. They should be the "Party of HELL NO!" These jokers who say we should negotiate are out of their minds. The reason they wanted "bipartisanship" is so they can blame the Republicans when it fails.
Let the Democrats have the full credit or blame on their own for this disastrous bill.
mikatollah, why wouldn't the Dems agree to truly increase healthcare insurance industry competition by lifting the restriction on inter-state (free market) insurance purchasing and competition? There's your good faith negotiation, the Dems won't allow that most obvious and simple reform to increase competition across the country because it would be VERY effective and as prices came down (like they have in the Auto Insurance industry via the internet with Geico/Progressive etc.) the Dems would NEVER be able to get the gov'ts foot in the door to move toward single payer. It's the only reasonable explanation as to why the Dems won't allow you and I to shop around and look for the most competitive price for healthcare insurance like we can for any other good or service.
Pelosi/Reid wrote these bills, it's a matter of fact, and often the doors were closed. And when the doors were open and the GOP tried to have some amendments included in the bill like cross-state competition and tort reform, they were shut out. Now having said that, I'm an Independent and not thrilled with the Dems or GOP…..they're both selling us and spending us down the river. But one thing I know, is that there shouldn't be restrictions on me or you being able to shop around and purchase any good or service across state borders….that's true free markets and competition and would result in significant reductions in price very quickly. With this Dem bill, we don't get more competition, they force insurers to cover more people, thus rates will go up and I can't shop around for the best rate outside of my state! It's a big joke and we're the punch line. We need to stop the partisan bickering and speak up for true free markets and competition…it doesn't exist today.
You mean like the Clinton's? No foreign ties there huh?
No $$$$$$$$ millions given to Clinton front group, reich?
I wonder how a dirt poor impeached prez is SUDDENLY WORTH $100 MILLION plus?
"Washington (CNN) – During Hillary Clinton's first year as secretary of state, some foreign governments again gave generously to the foundation of her husband, former President Bill Clinton …"
tat wouldn't be all he "does to himself"! LOL!
Hey Naziboy, is that a "terroristic threat"?
Dear G.O.P., look at the polling, look at the furor Nelson caught in Nebraska from his own constituents, look at the movement of independents TURNING away from the Democrats and GET A CLUE!
Americans REJECT this Demon-crat(SS) power grab.
Americans REJECT this power shift to SEIU and other gifts to the left.
Americans REJECT this fundemental paradigm shift to the socialist left.
Americans REJECT the CRIMINALLY CORRUPT Demon-cratSS party. Screw em.
small bit of trivia mein kampf means my struggle jihad means my inner struggle but somehow some cant just connect the dots
LOL! Yea – what a co-inky dink huh? That does ring a bell. Thanks.
You got nothing Nazi? You disappoint me. I thought you Nazi Jackboot types had more balls. Just a pu$$.
Absolutely not. This is a horrendous bill and should have been dropped. The Republicans suggested many things and were voted down every time. I will not ever vote Democrat on the national leval and probably not locally again. It is all about the money for themselves and their friends. Disgusting.
yup.
which party put in their little programs to send illegals home?.. illegals cost the country more than just billions in HC, but jobs, money sent out country, and lives. This is a game of keep away to these parties and my fellow common serf is stuck in the middle paying for it all. The GOP is fighting back? … Where was the speeches you have gone to far.. Where were the amendments that congress receive secret service protection because of these unconstitutional measure they pushing this country into a civil war. . It is clear congress no longer cares about the constitution or it’s own rules.. The peoples’ sentiment is not being echoed by our representatives.. where is the anger and the passionate outrage? The anger that puts fear into men’s hearts. The GOP is playing by rules of the ridiculous and pitiful.. This was a fight you get up in their face and make them understand this is a line that can’t be crossed. The democrats are playing union politics and kicking the GOP rear.. In UNION politics you get in their face and see who is a man and use the full power government to achieve your goals.
Yup. Look at the California mess. Ridiculous $$$$$ being inhaled by illegal immigrants.
I'm pretty sure Californians can figure out how to operate a lawn mower or a dish washer. They ARE complicated but you know, after a few YEARS or so even a white guy can FIGURE it out! (sarc)
Yup. The Mrs' Dad is an M.D.
He HATES the tort lawyers sucking on his neck constantly.
Well rp you ask some good questions, so ask yourself this. Why would a Republican party who takes daily marching orders from the health insurance lobby advocate for increased competition by allowing interstate purchasing of health insurance? The answer is the whole thing is a sham to limit individual state's ability to regulate the industry. They would then only need to deal with the feds whose votes in congress have already been purchased, instead of fighting government regulators on 50 fronts. When the private option was introduced that would provide real competition they squealed like school children.
The Democrats already have to negotiate with the conservative wing of their party, so where is the motivation to negotiate with bad faith actors like Republicans? It is tantamount to negotiating with yourself, because they had no chance of ever getting a Republican senator to break ranks and support the bill. The Reps have made that crystal clear since they shut Snowe down.
GOP amendments were never meant to be more than poison pills to make the bill worse. Their strategy was to get enough bad stuff inserted into the bill that liberal Democrats would not support it. Again, they argue in bad faith.
This is not the bill that I would have wanted, but you never get everything you want. Still it is a start, and it is my hope that this provide the foot in the door that will finally lead us to single payer universal health care.
Dream on fool!
"More than half of the whopping $426.9 million Barack Obama has raised has come from small donors whose names the Obama campaign won't disclose.
And questions have arisen about millions more in FOREIGN DONATIONS the Obama campaign has received that apparently have not been vetted as legitimate."
And you probably belong to SEIU and kiss where "the One" can't.
Even if what you say is true, it is simply buying votes via deficit spending.
HEY! What a pretty RED FLAG you have there! It's RED and WHITE – all you need is a swastika there Goebbles!
What citizenship did they hold? Perhaps you were thinking of Robert Reich – one of many Rasputins for Israel that seem to pepper every administration lately. Why are foreign agents for only one country allowed access to our government like this without a peep from "our" media? How many Iranian citizens are in the Administraton?
Rewarded because they lied, lied, lied, to the seniors, thus taking their votes. Now look at what party is doing exactly what the liars said the republicans were going to do ie., take seniors' medicare and social security. Proud of yourself, Daschle for the lies you told????
I'm not sure how bringing up a past president in any way dulls the point I was making regarding foreign agents. You seem to KNOW it is wrong, but willingly ignore it when they are Israeli agents, eh? Why is that? Between Israel and China, only the former has attacked us.
Are you listening, Mary Landrieu???
Hey, I'm the one getting a Masters in Poly Sci specifically to GET THE GOP to get their collective heads out of their asses.
I'm TOTALLY sick of namby-pamby, rich GOPers just "going along to get along". That's CRAP. FIGHT 'EM.
I advocate going guerilla, WHAT EVER IT TAKES; digging through trash, following Dem politcians around, seeking out questionable or illegal behavior, WHAT EVER IT TAKES.
If a rich polished Dem hopefull sticks his or her head up above the crowd, start checking them out, didgging the dirt, seeing who their connected to, seeing where their bodies are buried. Check 'em out GOOD!
The GOP party of 2006-2008 was crap. It wasJohn McCain style, weasly, whining RINO garbage.
You are fine.. I just trying to destroy the party system.. I am tired of the lies, both government parties spew.. I predict both parties will collapse under the weight of their own corruption. The internet and formats like this will change American political system forever. If a politician held a town hall format like this, no amount money could save them.
Look down. No lower. Current president recieving hundreds of $$$$$$ MILLIONS from overseas.
Documented.
http://newsmax.com/Politics/Obama-fundraising-ill...
You cannot make a deal with the devil and not get burnt.
That's part of what the future will bring. No more "smoke filled rooms" deciding our futures.
Yup. It used to called patronage, the Romans perfected this technique.
Buy people/votes and the same oligarchs stayed in office
Medicare was a response to a serious gap in private insurance coverage. People would turn 65 and could not find affordable coverage and if they got sick their insurance company would drop them. Now we need to make sure the rest of us can get affordable coverage.
Yup. It's usually called bribery when people do what these Senators did. They Romans prefected a system of patronage that bought the votes of the plebeians which kept the rich oligarchs in office.
This last Congress (and many before) are full of rich politicians they don't live by the rules they pass, and force us to live under.
Suprisingly (or not!) the majority of rich Congressman and Senators are Democrats! (still many are GOP)
how fast would the government parties change if all these posting sites turned against them?
3. A principled opposition to government-run healthcare will help win other fights.
Fine and dandy, but we really need to oppose ObamaCare in all its forms. I don't quite get the 'principled' preemptive capitulation on anything pushed by Obama & Co. Accepting the legislation in any form lays down a blueprint for eventual govt-controlled health.
Giving in on one bill so that we might have a leg to stand on when arguing the next socialist move only paves the way for the socialist march to the Left. More Republicans need to stand up and say 'this is not America, it's not American'. I realize some of the older political careerists may struggle with this, which is why these next 2 elections depend on new blood coming in. Republicanism is a growth industry at the moment, making it more attractive to energetic motivated individuals wanting to help take the country back from the messiah and his entourage.
How exactly do you compromise with Pelosi and Reid? Republicans could have asked for less crap but they still would have crap on the plate. Look at the stimulus.
Given some of the Repubs recent negotiation skills?
Better they let the Dems take complete ownership of this pile of pig manure, lest they come out with more of it on their face.
they do that then then I would suggest that they stay in D.C. and not come back to their home districts…..
Let's face the facts: President Obama is getting the health care reform he promised, and the Republican party stood on the sidelines and whined. The party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and Dwight Eisenhower has fallen so far that it has nothing to say but "no."
Sad to see it, but very instructive.
House Republican Leader John Boehner (R-OH) said "middle-class families and small businesses simply don’t support a government takeover of health care, and neither should Congress." The majority of Americans are satisfied with their health care/coverage.
The Republicans know that our current system needs improvement and are not denying that. They simply sight the fact that the American people say they'd rather have their current insurance plans than have a government take over.
[...] from: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … By admin | category: care health insurance long term | tags: allow-individuals, [...]
wake up.
NEVER seen a happy leftist.
We didn't want it. What part of 'WE DON'T WANT THIS PLAN' don't the politicians understand? They act like we're dumb as hammers. They have a bill that NO ONE has read except the people. Yes, we read it and it's all over the Internet. The politicians haven't read it. More than 60% of the people said NO. The politicians are supposed to represent us. They won't answer their phones. They won't return emails. They won't even show up at their offices. The know we don't want it and they think by avoiding us that they can pass it and we won't know it. BUT, we are going to remember this in Novermber. There will be too many people reminding each pother about this. It doesn't matter that it's a year away, we will remember. THEY are the ones dumb as hammers.
Here Here!!!! Tort reform and watch the costs DROP!
Bruce Bartlett is crazy. Really. He. Is. Democrats would have surrendered more to the other party in order to split the blame of a bad bill? Excuse me, what? Since when are the Democrats interested in compromising away THEIR erm "principles"? Look at the sturm un drang they went through just to get it past the House. Can you imagine them giving Demint an inch? They wouldn't even give the House Republicans an inch.
And if Dems wanted cover for a bad bill, why should the Republicans give up their principles and sully their own name to help their political enemies screw over the country?
Principles win elections, Bruce. Time for you to get your head out the Beltway.
Cite….
hmmm. not surprised that Mr Bartlett would pose this question. I find his writing to reveal a neo-con side that kinda scares me.
We’ll see!
Thank you, PJean — my sentiments exactly! Yes, Republicans presented full bills and numerous amendments, but couldn't get into the meetings let alone get their work considered. My own Rep, Roskam (IL 6th) tried to get a "medical practitioner shield law" bill in, which would hold doctors and medical practitioners/institutions harmless from liability suits as long as all proper proecedures were followed, but would still allow legal action when there's actual malpractice. Reasonable I think, but I'm not an ambulance chaser or lawyer's lobbyist.
Since you did not see the post just before yours here it is just for you…
The truth is, the republicans did provide a plan of their own to help reduce the costs of health care. The truth is the Republicans did begin in committee working with democrats until it was proven that the only goal was to socialize medicine and grow government.
http://rules-republicans.house.gov/Media/PDF/Repu...
http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/Summary_of_Rep...
Since you did not see the post just before yours here it is just for you…
The truth is, the republicans did provide a plan of their own to help reduce the costs of health care. The truth is the Republicans did begin in committee working with democrats until it was proven that the only goal was to socialize medicine and grow government.
http://rules-republicans.house.gov/Media/PDF/Repu...
http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/Summary_of_Rep...
"In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit."
– Ayn Rand
[...] here: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … Categories: Health, Object, Writing Tags: been-made, democrats, drink-too, financial-markets, [...]
It nots over yet…Somehow republicans have to keep the anti abortion Democrats wedged. This not about money, this is a moral deal.
So far the wretched Pelosi and Reid have reversed every change they had promised in various deals. By now most legislators know they are lying scum.
We need to make it to the election, then their Democrat majority will be wiped out. People are mad, really mad because Reid and Pelosi are defying the American people and saying we dare you to do something about it…they asked for it….people are ready to throw them out.
Hey genius why don't you read the piece and the prior posts before you start running your mouth, who knows, you might not even embarass your self next time… LOL
NOPE! THE DEMOCRAT COMMIES OWN IT ALL!
Well said.
[...] here: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … January 2nd, 2010 | Tags: Alternative, are-likely, Health, never-put, position, the-one, [...]
Let’s get this right, Bruce says the GOP did nothing, well BRUCE it’s hard to be bipartisan when the bill is written behind closed doors and on one even now knows what’s in it. Maybe you should have gone to capital hill and given your two cents maybe Reid would have listened to you, not even close. Timothy V has it right "Government can't fix a problem because government is the problem".
You are right, if it is not a single payer system, it is not worth the paper it is written on.
If the US had a single payer system, I guarantee that you would fight to preserve it, as is the case in every country that currently has such a system, but as long as the very powerful very wealthy insurance companies are allowed to control the message, the US, will unfortunately never get a chance to experience it.
Bruce Bartlett said…" they (Republicans) took the position that our current health system is perfect just as it is"–well, Bruce Bartlett is just a liar and Forbes shouldn't hire him to write columns. Bartlett knows that the GOP was completely shut out of the process.
Wow!! that is saying, that we are the problem, any government who says that should be ousted!!!!!! that way WE would fix the problem, right?
[...] » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … are-likely, current, never-put, position, the-one, the-position, took-the-position, [...]
[...] have led to enactment of a better health bill than the one we are likely to get. Read more: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … Share and [...]
You have to start something, before you can quit.
Oh Please, the only time the Republicans were included in anything was being asked to vote. THERE WERE FOUR DIFFERENT, VIABLE HEALTHCARE PROPOSALS COMING FROM THE REPUBLICANS — not only were they ignored, the Libtards mindlessly chanted, to their adoring Main Stream Media stenographers, that the Republicans had nothing to offer to the debate…..You Lie, LIBTARDS and WE are keeping score & taking names!
Or DOES THE LIBTARD DEFINITION OF COMPROMISING INCLUDE:
— exclusion from the bill planning,
— pre-planned, scripted committee time,
— issuance of a bill with little more than hours to read before being
asked to vote for it, and it being 1/6th of the economy — you morons
–watching bribes offered for votes, ie not just money for pet projects, but creating an unequitable
tax structure to pay for health care. . .ie, Nebraska's residents excused paying for Medicare
— in perpetuity!! At the expense of 49 other states — constitutional? Want to tell us how much more
each of us taxpayers will pay for Nebraskans????
TO ADD FURTHER INSULT, THE LIBTARDS DID ALL THIS BEHIND CLOSED, LOCKED DOORS — HOW'S THAT HOPE AND CHANGE THING WORKING FOR YOU? And where are all the promised C-Span Cameras, oBOWma?
How naive do you think voters are??? You better be prepared for a shock November 2010 by some very angry American voters (who will show up at the polls to counter ACORN/SEIU BALLOT STASHES). . .the horse-hockey, suck-up American journalism has been going on for soooo long and is so egregeious — your words are laughable and falling on deaf ears….ENOUGH!!
If anyone on this site would like to give up their Medicare, now or when you become of age, I have found out how it can be done, so all who are interested, let me know and I will forward you the proper links, this should take care of anybody who is fearing becoming a socialist at 65.
Perfect example.
Do you read, realize you have been indoctrinated, or just lie?
There were at least four proposals put forth between 2007 and Nov 2009 . . . here is one of them, one of the first. . . delivered to oBOWma's desk — he never even responded except for thanks — we'll get back to you. But since you seem to know it all — you must know about the rest —
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12427755110753687...
The last Republican proposal was offered as recently as Oct 2009. . .or were you too busy chanting, OBAMA, OBAMA, OBAMA. . . to hear?
2010 is here now are you ready?
And based on his last response to me Mikatollah apparently agrees with me that his stupidity ( he puts in quotes) is self-evident.
[...] Read the original post: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … [...]
[...] post: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … No Related Post This entry was posted on 02/01/2010 (Saturday) at 10:23 am and is filed under [...]
"Government gets bigger and freedom diminishes."
Yeah, and less Americans die. And less Americans declare bankruptcy ruining a lifetime of achievement because of a single medical catastrophe.
The words are bull puckey. The dying is for real. Thank god someone put the needs of the American people over the political posturing.
You don't need political cover for protecting the welfare of the American people.
Just more evidence that Republicans are becoming more and more irrelevant…
[...] Read more here: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … [...]
[...] Here is the original post: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … [...]
waslucid goes and cries:
"The only things non-reversable are death, Obama's defeat in 2012 and Charlie Sheens next mug shot.
This piece of anti-Americanism called a health bill, this celebration of all that is wrong with our
educational system, this stone tied to lying Democrats necks, this slide into a painfully uncomfortable
retirement for our elderly…"
What the Sam Hill are you talking about "this slide into a painfully uncomfortable retirement for our elderly"?? Like the elderly's retirement is any of the government's business!? That commie-fascist FDR has gotten the spineless retards thinking that Social Security is a God-given right! And then traitor LBJ went and stuck the dagger of Medicare into the backs of our grandchildren. Wake up! If you want a comfortable retirement, save your money! If you can't, it's nobody's fault but your own! And it's nobody's concern but your own. Like I could care that useless welfare cheats can't afford health insurance? Boo-hoo-hoo! Sink or swim, baby! You KNOW that's what really makes this country great!
[...] the original post here: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … January 2nd, 2010 | Tags: are-likely, current, never-put, position, the-one, the-position, [...]
Welfare mentalities like hockeynation and wally weaver above are why we quickly becoming an impoverished nation. If you two like socialist countries so much, why don't you live in some of them for a while. It is a proven fact that your utopia can not be had. The only things that comes out of supermassive, all controling government, which is all that the damnocrats want, is the citizens are taxed into oblivion, and the money never, NEVER gets back to the "poor". It goes to the elite in office who are far smarter than their victims who support them with votes. We can not afford a supermassive government. We are already destitute from the several trillions that danocrats just spent on themselves.
America is where it is today for one reason, people let their government run the US, the worlds last superpower, into the brink of extinction. Americas' only hope for recovery lies in never compromising it's conservative principals, and ripping Liberty back from the hands of tyranny.
(& by the way, hockeydrone & wally sucker, support of tyranny danms the eternal soul. & nature will find you both)
Real Americans take care of themselves, without government help or intrusion. Real Americans understand what Liberty is, & why it must be replaced. & Real Americans enjoy Liberty Infinite.
[...] more here: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … test Filed under Health | Tags: appear-posed, are-likely, democrats, edward, Health, medicine, [...]
[...] rest is here: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … By admin | category: Uncategorized | tags: are-likely, battle, care-reform, current, [...]
[...] original post here: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … are-likely, current, health, never-put, position, the-one, the-position, took-the-position, [...]
I was doin' time in the universal mind, I was feelin' fine. I was turnin' keys, I was settin' people free, I was doin' alright. Then you came along with your healthcare bill, turned my nation to ruin. Now I'm so alone, just looking for conservatism, in every face I see. I'm the freedom man. That's how lucky I am, I'm the freedom man. – James Douglas Morrison (w/ slight adjustment by infinitefreedom, a female)- & you finite freaks had better know that you will never escape the nature of the infinite human soul. Nature will not stand down. Damn-o-crats & liberals get crushed beneath it.
[...] Read the original: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … [...]
[...] the original: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … Health, Uncategorized [...]
So why was it when the Republicans did try to discuss and present their ideas in house committe, the dems eased out the back door? Better spend more time reading the facts instead of your talking points there gopher.
[...] the original post here: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … Uncategorized are-likely, current, never-put, position, the-one, the-position, [...]
[...] more from the original source: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … No Related Post This entry was posted on 02/01/2010 (Saturday) at 10:23 am and is filed under [...]
Why should they? What is there to negotiate? The dems wanted funding for illegals, abortion, government options, mental counseling, special breaks for unions and other support groups. What were the repubs supposed to compromise on? The only thing that dems and repubs could agree on was this was going to cost the American taxpayer a hefty chunk of taxpayer money. In a time of massive economic downturn, government spending is a major problem. I think the reason for the full court press in '09 was to: 1) give the obama person something, 2) show voters government could provide better than they can, 3) shore up a failing social program that will collapse in 5-20 years due to increasing ratio of older, retiring citiizens to younger taxpayers.
When 85% of the country is happy with their health care that is pretty damn close to "no problem at all". What has me up in arms is the fact that this clown obama played this as a real crisis when the economy is tanking because of his neglect and his enacting of social programs designed to bankrupt it. If he spent his time making the economy better maybe these uninsured people could get a job where they could then afford insurance.
But then again this health care nonsense is not about health care but the establishment of milestones in the democRAT march to socialism. There is nothing democratic about the democRAT party.
The Republicans are right on the dot when they refuse to support this irresponsible game play that the democRATS are forcing upon us. They did offer tort reform but the democRATS refused it. They did recommend for insurance companies to be able to cross state lines but the 'RATS refused that to.
Why is it necessary to trash a complete health care system where it is 85% functional? Why are they not targeting the 15% dysfunction?
I'd like to swat each one of the 'RATS asses with a broom as they are voted out of office next year. ABSOLUTE SCUMBAGS!!!
[...] Original post: » ObamaCare: Should Republicans Have Negotiated on Health Care … [...]
We have had some of Obama's Stooges posting on BG. One seems to be
obsessed with teabagging. Evidentally he is familiar with the practice and enjoys
throwing the term around. (I have no idea what that is, except it's supposed to make
me mad) First time I heard of it was when A. Cooper was supposed to have used the
term on CNN…I never watch CNN, but read about it….Sorry M, you didn't annoy me.
Can't get annoyed about something I know nothing about…
The other Stooge is upset with the use of the terms, Commie, Communist, Socialist,
and asked that I give him a definition….I suggest he look it up!!! I guess having Mao
on your Christmas tree, and Mao worshippers as some of your czars, and putting our healthcare
system on the road to socialism, taking over private businesses and telling them what
they can pay their executives- raises no "red" flags for this guy.
[...] Steve Benen wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptWriting for Forbes, Bruce Bartlett puts forth an interesting hypothesis that healthcare legislation could have been made better (hopefully he meant to write “less destructive”) if the GOP had been willing to compromise with Democrats: … [...]
There is only ONE reason…illegal immigrant votes!!
No ONE who sits in the House OR Senate wanted to hear from the Republicans and you damn good and well the media didn't even glance at any proposal except maybe the WSJ and a few of the others papers that are still making money……
Take too many pucks to the head or just all "pucked" up?
Sounds pretty much like the OCD group of light in the loafer statist morons that get their marching orders from the soros paid goons like media (like them DON'T) matter or the Dairy KOokS crowd….. Idiots all…..
Where have you been???? The republicans did offer a compromise bill that would not have cost the taxpayers a dime but the democrats would not even look at the bill. Meeting after meeting behind closed doors is not a very good way to get bipartisan support. In other ways the Demorats are saying do it my way or not at all.
I was over on Digg the other day and offered a few questions as a response to an innocuous article about FOX ripping off money given to them for a cause and was lambasted – received a -84 just for asking a question! The folks who think Bush has caused Obama to not save this country – strings from Texas( I thought that was an orchestra) are out in force. Any official who compromises personal ethics for expediency loses the argument. There is no compromise with those who will strip our freedoms and bankrupt our country. It's like being just a little pregnant. (Please don't bring up abortion)
Senator Voinivich left the bi-partisan talks in disgust saying there was "no compromise" from the Dems on tort reform or sales of ins. across state lines, among oher topics. Sounds to me like the Democrats are the "party of NO".
The Republicans have made a career of negotiating with Democrats. As a result the Democrats always get 30% or 50% of what they want. Then the Republicans declare a victory. That is why many people say there is only one party in America, the Statist party.
It IS Democrats who are the "party of no," Lynn. Republicans offered, by my last count, over 185 separate amendments to the Health Care bill…all of which were summarily rejected by the Democrats. Most of us have known for years now that, to Democrats, "compromise" means, "Do it our way or hit the road!" The biggest problem with the GOP is that when THEIR position is in the middle and the Democrats' is on the far left, "compromise" will ALWAYS be somewhere to the left of center. The GOP MUST return to its conservative roots and insist on negotiation from the right.
WTH happened to Bruce Bartlett, it appears he has had some sort of breakdown or else has drunk deeply of the Collective Grapejuice. This was evident several years ago.
Bruce Bartlett crossed over to the dark side a long time ago. Republicans would be wise to ignore any advice he offers.
Wow, so the answer is to elect crooks, since it doesn't matter anyway.
Would you like to sign up to have your name remove from the Medicare list? I have link, but you have to be serious when you remove yourself, because once you do, you will never be able to get it back, you can pay for your private insurance until you die, this way you can say you never gave in to those socialist Libtards!!
DKF, It seems you distort facts. You link to a May 20th 2009 article in the Wall Street Journal. A May 20th article.
This is you bases for great Governance of the GOP. YOU ONLY MAKE MY POINT!
Did the GOP get the message out to FOX news maybe BigGovernment, maybe Tea Partiers, the Folks at Hot Air or how about Micelle Malkin, Gatewaypundit, how about Ace of Spades?
Just glad you did not point out how the GOP transported its message out through the Telegraph wires. I do have to give you credit for that.
Sorry but if you keep the message hidden then you have no message.
What negotiations? They were left out of any of them. This bill was a Mafia style backroom deal with draconian leaders at the helm twisting arms, threatening and bribing…How can you negotiate immorality? How can you negotiate the systematic distruction of our way of life? This bill is unconstitutional, and in the spring when the Tea Party Movement takes to the streets congress will have to acknowledge that they are a grass roots movement with the approval of the people. . This debate is not over…it has just begun. This bill was designed without the approval of the American people, and it will not stand…I believe the people have had enough and Reid will be outsted, Pelosi will lose her leadership; and the bill will be shredded and they will go back to the drawing boards.
Agree; The Dems play " Hardball", the GOP plays "TeeBall".
I have to agree, the Democrats are the "good" cops and the Republicans are the "bad" cops! And isn't it ironic, "organized crime" has always been associated with the "good" cops!
They tried to get a foot in the door but the door was slammed in their faces.
Just found out this morning that FDR died of brain cancer in WW II, not much has changed, has it? And we won that one!!!
Like anybody is going to listen!
JBnID,
But if they did that then they would be leaders. You make alot of sense.
My dream ticket today would be Allen West/ Sarah Palin
If you are not familiar with Allen West take a look at this, he knows how to message:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP2p91dvm6M
The system is falling apart (California is a good example) as the domestic population ages, The dems know they can't sustain this and still maintain their percieved position as the Big Brother of all. What neither side seems to come to grips with is that failing to follow the Constitution in a strict sense is what caused all this to begin with (stretching the bar as ot what constitutes federal involvement in Americans lives). If they keep using the Constitution as a "living document," they may find that future Congresses/Presidents may look at in ways we find inconceivable today. Who's to say that they can't interpret a person's income, residence, lifestyle a burden on the general welfare? The notion of "death panels" doesn't seem so farfetched then.
IntenseDebate Notification <DIV> <DIV>Well, Barney, what do you want to do??… GIVE UP?? How about getting off the couch and voting the idiots out of \”our government\”!!</DIV> <DIV style=\”FONT: 10pt arial\”>
THEY BETTER NOT!!!! It's bad enough RINOs like Collins and Snow, who voted "procedurally" to advance this POS
(to steal from above TY!) BUT if the others have ANY hope whatsoever of keeping their jobs they better stick to their guns! These idiots STILL don't get it!! Now that WTP ARE paying attention the old "that's the way it's been" excuse is OVER!! If we have to go back and start at square one, with the original Constitution, to get this government back and under control than so be it!! Their salaries and benefits? GONE! Their power hungry trough feeding days? DONE! Their representing their own interests instead of the will of the majority, the governed?? OVER!
WE"RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT…NO!…..WE AIN"T GONNA TAKE IT!!!!…..WE"RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!! Twisted Sister, lol! Okay I wanted to leave a profound quote too but you all did such a good job I had to come up with something!
This is why we have to BOOT THEM ALL!! Restore the Constitution and our Republic! WTP are the governed and it is our honor and duty to uphold the Constitution! IF we could get as many people to join together in THIS cause as that pay attention to what Tom Cruise is doing or JayLo is wearing the battle would be half won! What they fail to realize is without THIS cause their freedom to worry about such idiocies is over!
ABSOLUTELY!!! They scream "the failed policies of the past eight years" "Bush spent up the surplus left by Clinton" on and on! Yet BO spent MORE in nine months then ALL the presidents before him! AND Clinton MAY have left a ten year projected surplus IF there was NO change in that ten years BUT it still excluded the other TWO sets of books that held 100+ TRILLION of debt! Jeez-MON where do these people get their facts?????
That will be the day! Thank you Dept of Education for instilling values in our children, yeah, right!
There were no opportunities for bi-partisan negotiations. A couple RINO's were offered opportunities to sign on, but even they were not allowed to offer serious issues for consideration. The health care bills are power/control bills having nothing to do with health care reform. If the bills had anything to do with actual health care reform, there would have been portions which addressed tort reform and shopping across state lines (just to name a couple).
"this crop of GOP Senators don't have common sense."
Nor the gonads.
COMMUNICATIONS is the key. Instead of whine about the MSM and complain because no-one tells their side of the story, the Repubs should concentrate on making a national race of all Congressional seats, much like Newt of '94.
Spend money on policy statements, much like Reagan of the late seventies with his morning radio addresses. (can you buy those anywhere?)
Let the American people KNOW what the Republican party stands for…..UT OH!
That's the problem. The current batch of Republicans in Congress don't KNOW what they stand for….except re-election.
Elect Palin and draft Rush for Press Secretary. The MSM could call in and ask questions three hours a day, Monday through Friday.
Article 1, Section 8.
Amendment 10.
Federalist 41.
It is clear.
No argument about the general welfare language in article 1, section 8, the same section that tells us what the government is supposed to do, is sufficient to erase both the letter and intent of the founders. Yet we have allowed the parsing of that sentence to give us exponetial expansion of government since 1932. Is it mandatory that federal legislators, lobbyists, bureaucrats, and judges check their memory of civics at the door? Apparently it is.
Lazy Jack
http://www.thanksforthelaughs.wordpress.com
And Caesar followed, as Obama?
When are we going to stop calling this "Health Care Reform" and start calling it by the correct name "Theft"? This isn't about health care reform no matter what is is named. It is a broad extortion scheme. Barry O and Harry own this. Long after the worms have finished the job on Harry the stench will remain.
Do you believe in Democracy? If you do not like the way it is working , get involved, don't complain!!!
We are not talking, or I wasn't, about the mistakes that FDR made in the lengthening the depression
with his version of the Great Society, to borrow LBJs titled failure, But what we have to deal
with that is in front of us is on my mind. Say all you want against SS and I might agree with you
but don't think you are going to see it disappear very soon. Medicare, SS, food stamps, free rent,
are a fact of life and regardless of your rant it aint going away.
Obamas attempt to take it over and change it from what is is now into something, you will find
untenable for all involved is what we are fighting against. If the Republicans win in 2010 this bill
can be turned back if need be. The entire system will not be turned back. By the way you I trust
you won't be signing up for SS or medicare when you retire, you know after you attained adult hood
for a spell..
True, but Conservatives have been on the wrong side of all the issues you listed except maybe the cold war.
Today's Republican party is dominated by Conservatives. So it's disingenuous to claim credit for progressive reform of years past when the current version of your party is anything but. It hasn't always been true, but the Democrats are the party of social justice today.
If you were truly concerned about progressive reform you should have left the Republican party during the Reagan years as I did. I apologize for assuming your were old enough to vote for Reagan.
I thought there was an alternative Republicant plan that was rejected by the Democraps… Article said there wasn't a Rep plan.
If Republicants negotiated, it would have set the wrong tone. The correct tone was that this is an out-right, unconstitutional plan that should be destroyed!
I'm glad the Reps didn't negotiate. Good job on that one…
Newsflash– This country was founded on "Conservative Principles." Please, I'd love to hear your definitions of both "Conservative" and "Progressive."
Conservative… one who seeks to maintain the status quo.
Progressive… one who seeks progress
Every major sea-change in this country has been led by progressives, whether we are talking about the abolition of slavery or women's suffrage. In fact, the Revolutionary War was fought for progressive reform as the status quo at the time was English rule. And there were plenty of Americans at the time who wanted to remain English subjects. They were the conservatives of their day.
Sometimes progress has been led by Democrats, sometimes by Republicans, sometimes by no party at all. But always, always it was a struggle between champions of change and those resisting change.
Today, progressives have found their home in the Democratic party and all current reform efforts are coming from the Democrats. That has not been the case throughout our history, but it is true now. I hope we can at least agree on that if nothing else.
I have no need to make up my own definitions to words. Here are dictionary definitions from Online Dictionary (noun):
Conservative
1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
Progressive
1. A person who actively favors or strives for progress toward better conditions, as in society or government.
Liberal
1. a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Not sure about the definition for liberal. Can a liberal truly be free from bigotry if he hates bigotry? Or is he just a bigotry bigot?
Well you would think your definition of progressive is correct for that sounds reasonable. What you have failed to consider is the history of "Progressivism" in the US. "Progressive" was really a term coined by Marxists/Socialists in the early 1900s to make the collective ideology more palatable the the American public. This is a fact and all you have to do is spend a few moments looking it up and you will see that I am being truthful.
As such, the "Progressives" sought to undermine "conservative" principle by painting it in the light of maintaining "the status quo." Throughout Marxist-based "progress" the main target has been "individualism" and of course with it, capitalism. You can especially see this during the Communist revolutionary campaigns of both the Lenin/Stalin and Mao's China. Individualism was discouraged at all costs.
In reality, conservative principle is really quite simple. It calls for a small government, individual freedom, fiscal responsibility and learning and retaining the lessons learned from history.
Indeed, many of the first "progressives" were actually in the Republican Party and to this day there are those who call themselves Progressive Republicans.
I dug back into my databank of reference material and here you go–
During the 1930s–Acoording to The Socialist Party of America report on the History of Socialist Party/Communism in the US you will find this little bit of info:
Historian David Shannon depicts the division within the Socialist Party as a three-way split, with the anti-Old Guard faction split between a boisterous but numerically small Marxist “Militant” group and a group of “radical non-Marxists” which he categorizes as the “Progressives.” As with Johnpoll, Shannon sees the Old Guard as a group of superannuated evolutionary Marxists, containing both “men of great ability” such as Hillquit, Lee, and Oneal, and others who “occupied positions of importance for which only their length of party service qualified them.” The Old Guard was strongest in the states of Pennsylvania, New York, and Connecticut, Shannon noted, adding that it additionally controlled most of the state committees and offices.
Neither of these factions were monolithic or particularly well organized, differing within themselves on matters of theory and practice. As Johnpoll notes, some of the Militants wanted the SP to move away from Marxist rhetoric and to appeal to the American people as exploited consumers rather than producers, while others within the faction wanted to turn the organization into a more revolutionary Marxist organization. In Johnpoll's estimation, the ideological split between the two main SP factions of the 1930s was one between “aggressive Social Gospel progressivism” (Militants) vs. “lethargic Marxism” (Old Guard).
"The goal of socialism is communism. "
–Vladimir Lenin
Good reply, thanks for that.
There have indeed been progressive Republicans in the past and probably there are still some floating around out there… somewhere. Sadly their voices have been muffled by the more vocal right who have dominated Republican politics since 1980. God love Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe, but I fear they are a dying breed.
Since I was old enough to pay attention Republicans have been preaching the gospel of small government. But once in office they seem to increase the size of government just as fast as the Democrats. The only difference appears to be their priorities, and that is a big difference. They tend to sponsor government protected monopolies for their corporate buddies and some tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. Democrats tend to favor their constituencies like unions and progressive taxes.
Don't get me started on Conservative fiscal responsibly. That is an ideal that conservatives may have recently rediscovered, but voting for one of them is no guarantee of a balanced budget, or anything like it.
Both sides seek to redefine the other in the worst possible light. The Republicans want us to associate Conservatism with God, country, family and high moral standards. They want us to believe Dems are evil Marxists with an anti-American agenda. They love terrorists and hate America. We are the party of Lincoln, Dems are the party of Stalin.
Dems have learned to play that game like a violin. Republicans don't care about you, they only care about wealthy corporations. They want to privatize your social security and make you pray to their god in science class. And of course we Dems will protect your social safety nets and freedom of speech. We will only tax the rich and protect your right to unionize.
As you can see, both sides start with a grain of truth, and stretch it into something that does not resemble reality. The lesson from history is when you want change you turn to a progressive to achieve it. Once change has been installed you look to Conservatives to keep the change from going too far.
This is interesting history and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's all true without looking it up for myself. But none of it has anything to do with the current Democratic party or even the thinking of most liberals. That is not to say that there are not avowed socialists in the party, but they are not in charge. They are like the progressives in the Republican party. Obama is certainly no socialist.
We are more social liberals than economic socialists. We are raging capitalists! I make my living buying low and selling high. I expect that self interest will always be the basis for the American economy. Well regulated capital markets are the greatest economic engine ever devised by man. We get into trouble when we try and outsource oversight functions to market players in the hopes that Adam Smith's invisible hand will improve efficiencies. But time and time again we have to relearn the hard lessons of history:
Unregulated capital markets always, always result in monopolies and monopolistic behavior. Or put more simply, the cat's away, the mice will play.
Here is as close as I get to socialism. I want to lower the eligibility age for Medicare from 65 to zero. If that makes me a socialist then chain me to the wall.
Lenin's goal may have been communism, but it's not the goal of anyone I know. And I have keys to the liberal clubhouse and know the secret handshake.
Kirk there is a grain of truth in what you say. No Democrat I know is pleased with this legislation and those of us who support it do so with the expectation that nothing is set in stone and shortcomings can be fixed as they become apparent. To not address this problem now will make it much worse for us later.
Conservatives fought the creation of Medicare just as hard as they now fight against health care reform. It has been expanded and polished many times by legislation over the years, but none of that would be possible without the landmark piece of legislation signed by LBJ in the 60s.
I think you are describing China and not America. You are practicing the art of political hyperbole.
Had Republicans been willing to compromise they could have gotten some of this included in the bills and it would have been better legislation for it. But they were unwilling to give up anything to get this and wound up getting nothing.
No one is going to compromise with you if you don't negotiate in good faith. And that includes supporting legislation after your ideas are included.
I'm not interested in the Democrat response; I believe their intentions have been stated quite clearly behind closed doors. The questions was "should republicans have ….".
As far as the Medicare issue back with LBJ. well, that was then.
All I want is for both parties to roger up to the task, not just one party dictating my personal health care.
Just once, would both houses put a bill together WITHOUT pork. I add that because that was the only way for the bill to progress into the travesty as is.
Thanks for your response.
I think you'll find the Republicans are usually on the right side of history. Civil Rights, Anti-Slavery, Cold War/Berlin Wall, etc. The list is long.
Pork is part of our system and it's not necessarily all bad. I would like to see someone have the courage to require all pork to have a name attached to it so we can see exactly who is doing it and what it's for.
We can't separate politicians from money, but we should be able to make them defend their actions.
With all due respect, the fact that you honestly thing Republicans are the Party of "status quo" means you have been enticed by the Democrat/Progressive BIG LIE yourself. That has been theMO of the Dems for decades–to portray republicans as backward, bible thumping, bud-swilling ignoramuses –oh yes and racists or whatever.
These are all lies and have never been true. The only way the left can stay in power is by fracturing the country and presenting themselves as the party of the "minority" whichever minority that might be.
If you honestly think the Dems have strayed so far away from their original Marxist/Progressive roots then you haven't been paying attention. I'll ask you: which party would you say is the party that cares about the "working class?" Which Party would you say is more interested in "social justice?" Which Party is the party of the Unions? Which Party created the "Welfare State" and still pursues "wealth distribution"?
The fact that you weren't aware of the roots of Progressivism shows you just how lacking our educational system is and how far underground the Socialist Party has had to go to continue to deceive their way into power.
That's a start!
I'm a product of Catholic school myself, but the public school system worked well for my children producing four college graduates. So it worked for me. But I can see that it is flawed because I now live in a state that is no. 51 in high school graduation rate… only 69 percent of Texas school children ever graduate from HS.
Like many social problems there are probably lots of reasons for this. But Republicans have declared it the fault of public education and teachers unions and all they offer up is diverting tax dollars away from the system into a bunch of private schools. Schools that can pick and choose who they want to educate. I will never agree to try and fix the problem cutting funding. It makes no sense to me.
The country is divided politically, but I'm not as convinced as you that it is all the fault of Democrats. Nixon was the first to develop the Republican "Southern strategy" to win national presidential elections from a base of southern states. Later it was Reagan who turned to social wedge issues to divide people who would otherwise have common economic interests.
You use Marxist and Progressive like they are the same thing. You are parroting Republican talking points that are designed to scare and yep, divide people. Regardless of meetings that some on the left held in the 1920s, they were not successful in guiding the party and are mostly lost to history. In their defense, it was a different time. Business cycles would throw millions out of work with no kind of unemployment insurance to help ease the blow. Children still worked in factories right next to adults, and social security was still many years away. So there was some radical thinking that found a voice when people were suffering.
Democrats are truly the champions of social justice, working Americans, unions and welfare. As for wealth distribution that is done by both parties. Bush spent eight years moving money up the chain. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way.
But Marxism is about a lot more than social safety nets. It involves common ownership of the means of production and other economic tools that were long ago rejected. I don't know why you people persist at trying to propagandizing your way into political power. It may work for a while, but the voters eventually figure out what you actually stand for (and it's not them).
Don't bother. I appreciate your posts but I've got no interest in heading down the old crazy trail…you gowidgod.
Now onto your post:
"Democrats are truly the champions of social justice, working Americans, unions and welfare. "
I knew you were going to say that. Social justice, workers rights, welfare state: all good little talking points used throughout communist propagandist history. Anytime one class is pitted against another you can be sure a Marxist/Socialist/Communist is behind it somewhere. This is another one of the BIG LIES progressives have used for decades.
The key is to ask yourself this: do you think there is social justice in the US? Do you think the Welfare State works? Are workers better off in the US? I await your answer.
"As for wealth distribution that is done by both parties. Bush spent eight years moving money up the chain. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way. "
In what ways did Bush move money up the chain? I don't know how to answer that and am curious.
"But Marxism is about a lot more than social safety nets. It involves common ownership of the means of production and other economic tools that were long ago rejected. I don't know why you people persist at trying to propagandizing your way into political power. It may work for a while, but the voters eventually figure out what you actually stand for (and it's not them)."
Marxism laid the groundwork for Socialism which is the bridge between Capitalism and Communism. It is the incremental step in between. What? You don't think Progressive leaders know this?
Actually, I think you will find that the voters are starting to figure out just how the left and the progressive right has propagandized it's way into power and how far we have come from following the Constitution on which this country was founded.
"The only way to smash the resistence of the working classes is to organize forces inside the society via the people with higher social positions and power as a means for discrediting the old (i.e. capitalism) and indoctrinating with the new (i.e.socialism)." Vladimir Lenin
Actually, I think you will find that the voters are starting to figure out just how the left and the progressive right has propagandized it's way into power and how far we have come from following the Constitution on which this country was founded.
Of course not. Why would you? Then you would have to be confronted with the fact that you have been swindled, hoodwinked and generally made a fool of by the people who you trusted with the "truth."
Progressivism is philosophically aligned with Marxism which is the Father Philosophy of Socialism and Communism. This is not scare mongering. And no Republican has given me that talking point.
I know this because I am an avid reader and tend to read the "source" books in my research such as The Communist Manifesto, many of Lenin's own writings and speeches, many many books on Mao. I tend to try to find books that were written nearer the time of the events, such as an excellent book on the insight of fascism called "The Hitler File." Also there are so many Chinese who have fought there way out of Communist China to tell their stories and enlighten us on the methods of propaganda, etc that global Communism uses.
In addition, many Cold War files were declassified in the 90s which are fascinating and lay out in detail how global communists infiltrated even the highest echelons of politics, education and entertainment in the US. Many which continue today.
I will continue…shortly…
mikatollah act of contrition…
I want to thank the nice folks on biggovernment.com for sharing their time and ideas with me for these past few weeks as I have thoroughly enjoyed myself. I try and conduct myself with proper respect and a sence of humor, and not get drawn into flame wars that always seem to generate a life of their own.
I know I have offended many of you with my use of the term "teabagger". It seemed harmless at first when I believed this list was filled with knuckleheads. I justified it by telling myself and others that it's ok because others do it. But I was wrong. There are many good people here who love their country and are just as passionate about their politics as I.
So to all of you I give my heartfelt apology and hope you can find it in your hearts to forgive. I want to assure you that the word will never pass my lips again, either while blogging or in my personal life. The word is dead to me.
I'm not going anywhere and I look forward to future debates. And just a note, you are going to see this post several times because I am going to post it everywhere I find someone that I know I particularly offended.
mikatollah
Why should there be a restriction placed on the purchasing of any product or service across state lines? You see all those Geico Caveman ads, Progressive ads? They provide very competitive auto insurance rates for all 50 states, and in turn the industry has become more and more competitive, especially since the internet in the mid 90's and birth of ecommerce. That same cross country open competition and ecommerce for Health Insurance would result in tremendous efficiencies and savings and lower prices for you and I. Why don't you want that? I don't care if the Dems/GOP are in bed with the lawyers and thus fight tort reform or are in the pockets of the big Pharma etc. Obama made deals with big Pharma to maintain the Canadian restriction, they're not wanting tort reform, they don't want open country-wide competition….it's a big political game, I don't care if it's Dems or GOP, I just know that as a consumer, prices and choices will improve dramatically if they remove the in-state restriction and allow me to shop around for the best rates like I can with the Geico's and Progressives etc. The internet opened up commerce and made the State Farm's and John Hancock's wake up, become more efficient and competitive with their rates. The same would happen with Health Care….we'd probably see Geico and Progressive (and others) get into the Healthcare Insurance business….where today they see too much gov't restriction, mandates, and red tape within each state. You may like that, I don't, I want more options, choices and competitive rates.
Medicare, SS etc. are near bankrupt, Postal Service loses money, I mean give me a break. And if there really is upwards to $500B in fraud and waste in the current Medicare system, well, that's my point! And go clean that up first, today if it's possible! The Dem argument for restrictions and gov't option or single payer is very weak and Americans have figured that out.
We would all love more competitive rates. But every time the congress tries to remove the anti-trust exemption granted in the 1940s Republicans block it in the senate. So there in no interest in competition from the right.
There is not $500 billion in fraud in Medicare. Most of the savings iis going to come from the elimination of Medicare part A which is a giveaway of health care delivery dollars to the insurance industry. That is why they are spending $7 million a day to fight the effort in congress.
Like it or not, reform is coming. If that makes you mad then remember it the next time you get back into power and try and accomplish something for the people. Had you taken care of business for the last eight years you wouldn't be so angry and desperate now.
Reform will make me mad??? Had I taken care of business the last 8 years???? I'm an Independent and I didn't like Bush, so I'm not sure why you think I don't want reform or am with the GOP in holding back regulations for the past years etc.. That's bunk to me and I don't care.
The Dems have indicated there are a few hundred Billion in waste and fraud in Medicare, not my words, theirs. They are also double-counting (says the CBO) those savings in Medicare by saying that $500B will help prolong the solvency of Medicare while also using that $500B to spend on new healthcare entitlements…can't do both. That to me is typical of gov't run programs.
You seem to be lock stock and barrel on the Dem side and have an argument ready on any topic, why do you owe them such loyalty? Gov't is failing us, is bloated and wasteful, regardless of Dem or GOP. The waste in the $787 stimulus bill is well documented and ridiculous….had to be passed so quickly yet most of it isn't spent yet….AND they indirectly now say it's a failure by saying they need another $155B from unspent Tarp debt (debt, not money)….when most of the $787 isn't spent yet! That's insane.
Dems made deals too, with Big Pharma, a mere $80B kicked in to save themselves over a Trillion. It's why Big Pharma jumped on board from the start (no open market, no Canadian drugs, no new regs), and why the legal community jumped on board too (no tort reform). Both sides have their hands dirty with lobbyists and behind closed doors deal making. And the buying of votes for this healthcare bill is disgusting….$300B for the Louisiana Senator, $100B for the Nebraska Senator and so on….you can't be proud of that??? That's the Change you voted for in Washington? "It'll be on C-Span" yeah right. What a joke. I'd have more respect if he didn't sell 'Change' and not deliver. I had some hope, but most of it is gone now, mostly thanks to Pelosi and Reid….ugly 'we got the votes and don't care what you think' politics.
Single payer would be a nightmare for a country this size. I'm for lots of reforms and more competition and healthcare for the 30M plus that don't have it today or anytime during the year when they are between jobs etc. I'm for all of that, but why not full country-wide competition like auto insurance? Why not tort reform? Why? Because the Dems have the votes and don't need to accept any ideas from the GOP that they don't like….the Dems made their deals with Big Pharma and Legal lobbyists already, among others. No side is holier than thou.
We as free thinking independently minded tax paying citizens owe loyalty to NO politician, to no partisan side left or right. We should hold all of our elected officials' feet to the fire and no side has the monopoly on good ideas.