California and the International Green Energy Racket
by Chuck DeVoreLast week, the premier of British Columbia, Gordon Campbell, paid a visit to the California State Legislature. He spoke at length about his province’s green energy partnership with California in supplying California with electricity while helping the state meet its greenhouse gas reduction goals.
I listened to the leader of the Western Canadian province of 4.4 million people and I found myself asking, “What is he selling?” So, I decided to follow the money. What follows is a summary of an international green energy scam that costs California taxpayers millions while robbing California of jobs due to higher electricity costs and electricity imports.
The Scam
Decades ago, the West Coast began exchanging electricity. During the summer, when air conditioning use spiked in California, Washington State and British Columbia would ship hydropower down to the Golden State. Later in the year, during California’s mild winters, when rivers levels were low in the Northwest, California would return the favor. The power exchange worked well for everyone.
During California’s 2000-2001 energy crisis, our northern neighbors took Enron-like advantage of us. BC Hydro, a state-owned utility, through its marketing and trading subsidiary, Powerex, aided in the rampant market manipulation that ended up costing California consumers millions. Bill Lockyer, then California Attorney General, sued. In March 2005, Powerex settled and refunded a fraction of the profits they made at the expense of California ratepayers.
The current version of this energy scam is breathtaking in its scope.
Further, the victim, California, actually knows most of what’s going on and either doesn’t care or doesn’t want to know the messy details.
California has become America’s largest electricity importer. With 37 million people producing about 13 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product, California imports about 23 percent of its electricity. This situation is compounded by the state’s environmental laws which, if a power plant can be built at all, typically consume seven years for permitting and construction vs. three years in competing Texas.
Complicating matters are a trio of California energy policy laws passed in 2006: AB 32, SB 1368, and SB 107. AB 32 mandates a 30 percent reduction in California’s greenhouse gas emissions by 2020 (BC Premier Campbell was particularly enthusiastic about this law). SB 1368 outlaws the renewal of coal-fired electricity contracts—imported coal energy powered about 16 percent of California’s grid in 2008. While SB 107 accelerated the requirement that California derive 20 percent of its electricity from renewable sources this year, renewable being defined as small hydro, geothermal, wind, solar, and biomass (we missed the target, meaning utilities, read ratepayers, get dinged).
Enter government-owned BC Hydro and its Powerex subsidiary. With abundant hydro power potential, British Columbia is seeking to become the Saudi Arabia of “green” energy. California environmentalists don’t see the irony in British Columbia damming rivers to provide power to California, while in California, environmentalists fight to demolish dams as unsightly threats to salmon.
The irony gets even deeper, though. British Columbia, perhaps due to Premier Campbell’s business-friendly tax and regulatory policies, is growing. That, combined with a severe drought (yes, when California gets a good water year, British Columbia often sees a drought) means that BC Hydro will be importing $220 million more electricity than it did last year. You read it correctly, hydro energy colossus British Columbia will be importing almost a quarter billion dollars more electricity this year than last. In fact, BC Hydro has imported more energy than it has exported in 10 out of 11 years. And, from where does this energy come? Washington State and Alberta Canada. And, what is the source of this electricity? Brace yourself. Coal and gas-fired plants.
Electrons in a grid, like dollars in an account, are fungible, meaning that “clean green” electrons cannot be separated from “dirty coal” electrons and both are mixed in with electrons from nuclear power plants. So, when the Premier of British Columbia comes to California to urge us to continue to make our state even more dependent on his province for electricity as we strive to make the planet better we shouldn’t fool ourselves. The fact is, BC Hydro is buying “dirty” power and then, in an act I’ll dub “electron laundering” is repackaging it for the silly, naïve, environmental-minded Californians as pristine green hydro power—with a nice mark up, of course (Canadians have to pay for their national healthcare after all).
If Canadian reselling of coal power to California wasn’t enough of an insult to common sense and the environment, then here’s one more. Many British Columbians oppose their government’s push to make their province an energy colony of California by submerging more tree-lined river valleys. From a greenhouse gas perspective, they’re probably right. Some studies suggest that hydro electric dams built in forested valleys aren’t a great way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. This is because the dams drown carbon-impounding trees, which, in turn, rot when they are submerged, releasing large amounts of methane, a gas that is 80 times stronger than carbon dioxide in the greenhouse effect.
The Solution
Rather than practice electrical grid colonialism, simply importing power while sending jobs and emissions elsewhere, Californians need to get serious about generating more of their own affordable and reliable power. In many places around the world, this means modern nuclear power. California needs to lift the state moratorium on building new nuclear power plants signed into law by then-Governor Jerry Brown in 1976.
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117 Comments
Thanks for turning over another rock hiding more hidden corruption and stupidity within government. Californians are foolish sheep being led to a slaughter. All the while convincing themselves they are saving the invironment. A scam is a scam is a scam. This is quite a good one too.
"We have seen the enemy and he is us"!
Isn't algore in Kalifornia these days. this is shocking, shocking, he was not aware of this I'm sure.
Yeah, but we'll be smiling and patting ourselves on the back over our greeness as we launch over the cliff. "Electron-laundering" just became part of my lexicon!
Californication is bankrupt, down the toilet and only getting in deeper due to the progressive, Marxist policies. One question here, since they are on the verge, if not already deep into, a Greek crisis, how much will it cost the US Taxpaying Citizen to bail these a$$hole$ out?
It is probably not ironic that the amount needed to bail out the tree fairies is probably close to the amount that is left over from the idiotic progressive stimulus.
Hmmmmm….
Chuck Devore: I want you to know that I was so disappointed you did not win against FioRINO. I still have 3 of your signs in my trunk and brochures I handed out at street fairs. I think I was despondent for awhile after finding out you lost. I saw this great billboard of you near the San Diego airport, I was so sure you would win. CA is a lost cause, really thanks for running but if you had gotten in, I still think your hands would have been tied for an effort to change this State. It is doomed and it must collapse for people to finally pull their heads out of their anal cavities and wake the hell up. I phone banked for your campaign too. Oh well, CA's fate is sealed and it is doomed.
Dang that was a cheery message wasn't it?
Someday someone will write a book about the Rise and Fall of California.
PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT BAIL US OUT. I am looking forward to the bewildered, confused faces of all the entitled butt heads living here. Having them wandering around in a circle muttering to themselves "huh? what happened? I was green, I did it green. Where's my car, where my house, where's my wife? I worshiped Al Gore, I was so politically correct, what happened?"
Maybe that makes me a not very nice person, but the only that is going to wake these people up to the errors of their ways is a complete implosion of the economy. We are Greece and we are into the pensions for about a half a trillion dollars according to Yaron Brook via PJTV.
I'll wait for the movie. Just think of the 3 – D effects. ; )
but will it be a comedy or a tragedy?
Hopefully a comedy. Our Country has seen too many tragedies already!
Will CA finally fall into the Pacific??
I think a movie like this alread exist. Its called "Escape from LA", I think it was from the 80's and could be what CA is heading to.
That was a good article Mr. Chuck DeVore. And maybe it was beyond the scope of your article, but you missed the most obvious layer of this scam.
Let's see if any of us are able to remember WHY we need to cut down on so called greenhouse gas emissions —- Oh, now I remember, its so we can stop GoreBull Warming.
1. (but there is no man-made global warming) and
2. (its well established at this point that CO2 has NEVER had anything to do with the planet's average temperature in the first place)
So California is being forced to buy a product that would not resolve or even help resolve the problem if it actually existed — but, even more outrageous than that, is the fact that the problem itself doesn't even exist.
Boys and girls, only government can do this for you.
The whole green thing is a scam. Biofuels require more energy to produce than they provide. Hybrid cars have a bigger carbon footprint than a Hummer. Solar and wind farms require backup coal or gas plants because they rarely operate at peak capacity. Battery-powered cars are not efficient because power-grids must be loaded based on potential demand, not actual demand. When will we learn?
a little offshore drilling, and two or three nuclear plants- one doubling as a desalination plant as well…
Is all the Golden State needs. This can be done quickly, and safely. But does the will exist?
From what we see, no. The cradle to grave guarantee of a soft life is ingrained in the populace, and they do not want to make tough decisions- like who is going to pay for the pensions of the jail guards. So, just mooch off of everyone else, and demand a taxpayer bailout.
That is now becoming the American Way…
I'm with you! Here's hoping we survive this!
Global warming is the biggest criminal enterprise, perhaps in history. And the people behind it all need to go down in flames.
I think there already is a movie isn't there? It's called 2012
Holly, your comments remind me that the Coasts used to be OK. When I was a child Massachusetts had a functioning Republican Party. Now it is single party (ignore the little burps) with associated decay.
I have a theory: 1-Way back when, Flyover America sent (with all good intentions) their youth to both coasts to be "educated." 2- Boston/Cambridge (I believe this holds for you Holly, but I've only observed my coast) has a significantly younger "median age" than the rest of the country. 3-With great fanfare and all the passion of their ideals, these college students "VOTE" here. 4- Then they "grow up" get a job and go home. 5- We get stuck with the results of these years of voting, which have now festered and spread.
HEY, Flyover America, us dregs of the Metro-Coastal need YOU to help clean up this mess, and I don't mean your money…. VOTE!
California is now the end product of a once great state, that have been pushed down to third world level status.
How? It was easily done by the ever whining environmentalists, unabated illegal immigration, and an unfriendly to business state legislature that taxed industries out of the state. A legislature that still won't relent to cutting wastefulness, and that still can't see the light of having pushed their social engineering programs down the tax payers throats. All have led for a recipe of financial disaster. God have mercy!
Scams. Faux science.
I post from time to time that distance causes electrical shortages.
If by wire we transmit power over such distance. we loose 35% of it in the resistance of the wires. Just like a canal with water loses by evaporation, electric over wire has a power loss over great distances. The reason we can't ship it across the country.
Kewl suggestion.
No, it will be pushed into the Pacific… by the rest of us… to put out of our misery.
Sounds crazy to try to build a nuclear power plant in Ca., they would have so many regulations that Ca will be under water before a nuclear plant could get off the drawing board, no to mention earthquakes.
Combined Heat and Power is the way forward, not just in Ca but the country. CHP is green and pays for itself and doesn't need more grid infrastructure.
Thelma and Louise in a Chevy Volt.
I, for one, will be laughing.
One way to change the "perception" of impropriety in the California legislature is to put two Marijuana Cigarettes in every Cal-ration handed out at the bread lines to feed the dependent constituency who cannot find work because of the Progressive one world economy. Just like the old K-rations it would also include a chocolate bar, a Twinkie and a how to guide for more government assistance. Just blow your smoke, go back to your couch and watch Oprah and pretend nothing is wrong because big brother got your back.
No one should be Surprised when a Governor of California and a Former Governor of California team up to usurp the will of the People 7,000,000 strong. Neither one of these individuals followed through with their own oaths of office to defend our borders or the current "Law of the Land". Instead, we have sanctuary cities, government sanctioned medical marijuana drug dealers, alternative life styles being encouraged and taught to our children in schools that prohibit Christian doctrines, We have proposed budgets from the Governor's office intending to use Gambling revenues to balance our state budgets, we have no water rights for our agricultural centers, we have animal rights superseding the health and safety of humans, we have big government getting bigger and more regulations to prohibit free enterprise, We are chasing jobs from our state. But, I digress.
What I really wanted to say is that Gerry Brown is a liberal without libertarian ideals and I knew "The terminator" was a Kennedy all along! What did you expect?
One thing though, now that we have set a president with questionable citizenry it opens the door for Arnold's presidential campaign.
Drugs are for sick people! Recreational drugs are for really sick people! People who sell drugs are sicker still! Heaven Help Us All!
Don't you mean that they'll be muttering:
"¿Eh? ¿Qué pasó? Yo era verde, lo hice a verde. ¿Dónde está mi coche, donde está mi casa, ¿dónde está mi esposa? Yo adoraba a Al Gore, yo era tan políticamente correcto, ¿qué pasó?"
Actually, California already has 4 nuclear reactors producing about 12 percent of our power needs. Earthquakes aren't an issue either, as California is a huge state with over half of its landmass far away from large faults. With enough engineering, a nuclear plant could be built near a fault as well, but why pay more for the extra steel and concrete? The Fresno Nuclear Energy Group is actively seeking to site a nuclear plant in the Fresno area.
Really DB? Really? You're going to blame us in the middle for the excesses of both coasts? Good example here of what's wrong with our country. You're refusing to take responsibility for your own failures. You've got a culture of entitlement on both coasts bankrupting your states and it's our kids going to college causing your problems?
Perhaps your problem isn't with OUR kids, perhaps the problem is with YOUR kids. Maybe if folks in your state would get off their a$$ and do for themselves your problems would begin to abate. Perhaps your state's problems would go away if your voters began to education them on how the real world works and elect public officials accordingly. Perhaps all the problems in CA, MA, NY would be solved if her people would act like adults instead of children waiting for mommy (the government) to take care of them.
Here in Nebraska we've DONE WITHOUT to ensure a future for the state. We elected a Governor who is responsible with OUR money and didn't spend our budge surpluses. We don't allow the super minority libtards to guilt us into going along with their BS. We have our problems and challenges but look to each other for solutions instead of the government.
I don't mean to pick on you but it pisses me off to hear this kind of talk. California is living WAY beyond it's means, that's their problem.
I get negative points every time I mention CHP…the ignorance is kind of like I was posting on the daily kost or huffington post, only more polite LOL The truth is CHP is the way to stop this carbon capture nonsense.
And your state allows out of state students to vote locally? All my kids go to college here in Nebraska so I'm not privy to the voting rights of other states. I'd think that the student would have to vote in their home of record.
I take it you didn't read "The Solution" in Mr DeVore's article.
Some of us on the left have been pushing nuclear energy for the past forty years or so.
I take it you didn't read "The Solution" in Mr DeVore's article.
Some of us on the left have been pushing nuclear energy for the past forty years or so although California might not be the best location.
Here's a graph showing current arctic ice extent: http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_i....
It is currently about 3 standard deviations below the 1979 – 2000 average as it has been for much of this past decade.
One wonders if this visit was just cover to get some medical work done.
…
Better hurry!
Until the enviro-criminals got involved nuclear was looking like the answer to our prayers. Safety is always a major concern with nuke plants but proper operations keep them very safe. The one downside was the radioactive waste produced. Without the interference of the nuts this too could have been resolved.
Remind me why "recreational drugs are for really sick people?"
Which does not prove global warming. Many melted glaciers, for example, have been shown to be the result of other factors. The so called science of warm mongers is laughably bad. As are using logical fallacies as the basis or your position. Arctic ice has gone through many variations over time.
I have nothing against nuclear energy except that nuclear is a utility scale option and 35% of the power is lost in transmission, no way around it. Combined Heat and Power is local and much more efficient, 70-90% verses 35 percent for central power. CHP is cheaper than utilities can produce, far cleaner than utilities can produce and it isn't controlled by a monopoly….oh yea and CHP pays for itself in 3-5 years and then operates at a profit.
How much government funding did those nuclear power plants get Mr Devore??
Mr Devore you have a struggling little Ca company by the name of Capstone Turbine, cut the government and utility regulation on the power grid and watch them take off. How about giving them the funding instead of funding another big utility, or just deregulate and they won't need it.
Lo Siento mucho que tan horible que no inclui a los ilegales tambien. De veras todos se van a preguntar "Que Paso"
California and Illinois– why can't the progressives perfect their utopia first, before experimenting on the rest of us?
Make them go away!
Wait something did rise, in Al Gores pants! You know has a electrician I know a little something about these solar panels. First of all there a giant rip off, there about 3.50 per watt. For those of you out there that do not know, That really expensive! They are no way economical. Well unless you had a tracking system. I would be willing to guess that Al Gores house would need about 200 panels alone, which is frickin massive ok. Where talking massive. Not to mention the carbon footprint to bring them over from China, cause if you want a panel that's where ya ga M'kay. Its not domestic people. O ya the next time I here someone say Americans do not do Manual Labor in this country! My frickin head is going to exploded like a Atomic Bomb!
I think they will run out of data keyboards first. Maybe they will go back to 33-1/3 RPM stuck in a iPod.
Hi Chuck. We in South OC live within 10 miles of the San Onofre nuke plant – we are not NIMBYs. Not that you need to hear it, but tell D.C/Sacramento to build more nuke plants, please! Plus desalinization to give us water in times of drought. We know it's expensive to build, but this is the kind of infrastructure building that we are willing to have our tax money spent on. We got nothing for all this spending.
Keep posting here, you have fans.
Another addition to my lexicon!!! This is a good day.
but then hollywood stars can sit in their airconditioned 30,000 sqft homes, fly around the world on a whim, make movies elsewhere to save costs lifestyles and look down their noses at the common people who use coal-fired electricty at about 1/10th their rates.
Dear Liberty Geek, I don't think you are "picking" on me, my comment is pretty far out, but I do ask, HOW do you think we got this far down this very strange road???? Really, I remember as a child that Boston was conservative, strange sentance to see now right? And please look at this link to Mass.gov:
http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/eleifv/howreg.htm
Honest it is creepy. Liberty, my personal vote in my home state has been a "throw away" for my entire adult life, very frustrating, and yet I do vote, every single time. There are so many more college students than adult small business owners, it really skews the stats. Is your town/county/state run by 19 year olds? Mine is. (BTW I wasn't able to have a child of my own.) I REALLY need your help, our whole country does, honest.
Didn't want to give the wrong impression myself. I'm an All Of The Above kinda guy. If it's safe and effective, use it.
Seeing how he's using 50% of California's power for his house, he better be aware of it.
Me to, I would just prefer that any of the above pay for themselves without taxpayer funding them.
Hi Bassett,
May I suggest other options that don't need taxpayer funding because they are efficient enough to pay for themselves, search "combined heat and power" on the DOE or EPA websites, if interested in saving big money.
Shoot DB. Step one is to ensure that non-residents can't vote in your elections. My guess is that MA allows out of state students to become residents and right away pay in-state tuition. Make that in-state rate benefit disappear and you'll stop that problem. I doubt it's our exports that are causing your problems though. There just aren't enough of us to cause that kind of swing. This is a cultural problem. We're very influenced by the farm communities here in fly-over territory, even in our cities. That makes our society much more conservative than in the urban areas. Our "liberal" areas are all urban. Omaha, Lincoln, Des Monies, Kansas City, etc. Anyway, the answer to your problem is to wake your neighbor up. Talk to them and give them facts. It's frustrating as hell but sometimes it works.
And the information in your link is kinda scary. Hell, anyone can vote in MA. You don't even have to be a U.S. Citizen if you're willing to lie and obtain a false ID.
Most of our kids stay in state or in region. My son graduated last spring and 90% of the kids attending college are doing it within the fly-over region. It's cheaper and most kids want to be just far enough from home to be independent but close enough to drive home for food on the weekend.
Regulation is just too damned profitable for our representatives. They want to do the right thing but then they look at all the money and power they hold and say to themselves "Oh just a little more wouldn't be that bad… I'm a member of the State Assembly after all!"
Disgusting
it's why California is now considered ungovernable, and why we don't hold Schwarzenegger in low regard here. If you can't see the trouble then you can't solve it…
Nuclear only gets government funding, as in loan guarantees to offset the costs associated by government regulations and the legal environment (also caused by environmental law). If we reformed these laws, nuclear power would need no loan guarantees. As for your combined heat and power, there is nothing stopping you now from going forward. If it pencils out, just do it.
Well, you basically are right. When I was twenty something myself I should have worked harder at the political stuff. But like I said I'm small business, you know what that means if you are a farmer, PAPERWORK!!! I was TWO hours away from Woodstock (the old 70's event?) and I didn't go, but look at those pictures, LOTS of young people, not all of them born here, but very involved. Really, you are buffered from some of this, you think "your kids" couldn't be much influence, but like that Wal-Mart one cent profit,it sure added up. Maybe not this decade, things are tight, but the 70's, 80's and 90's totally trashed my states elections. The mandates, regulations and commissions in place here would boggle your mind. They really don't make any sense. Really. But like Obamacare, it now IS. I'm scared Liberty Geek. I'm not sure I'll be able to live out my life like my mother, grandmother and great-grandmother. It is not my Boston, my Massachusetts or my USA.
I would bet a few nukes would solve the problem.
Capstone microturbine is a CA company, a US manufacturing company in your State that is hiring–very rare. Maybe you should get out of the utility's pocket and take at trip to Chatsworth and find out if it "pencils out" yourself. Maybe it would 'Pencil out" allot sooner if they got one of those government "loans" to get beyond the utility regulations that control the grid and stamp out competition.
Or better yet stop government funding altogether and allow the winners to rise to the top, capstone will be there, I doubt nuclear will.
To quote another blogger, "Visit California, when another communist country is just too far away".
California could put together small, modular nuclear reactors in even less than 3 years if they purchased products such as Hyperion (www.hyperionpowergeneration.com).
25MW electrical energy for $50M with a safe, clean technology. But the nuts that live in CA would never let it happen. They would rather bankrupt the state with their corrupt and foolish plans than actually resolve the problem of power generation. CA deserves its money to be stolen and squandered when the leaders behave this way.
California is lost . We need to stop shipping toilet paper to them untill they WAKE UP !
Insinuating that I am somehow in the "utility's pocket" is offensive in the extreme and shows your ignorance of who I am and my record. Stop trying to sell your product on the pages of Big Government. As I said, if your idea works, it works, and will not require government loans, supports, subsidies, etc. This also applies to your gratuitous remarks below re: Sen. Boxer. If your product is so wonderful, why in the world do you need a U.S. Senator? You should, instead, be speaking with bankers and venture capitalists.
If your product is so wonderful, why in the world do you need a U.S. Senator? You should, instead, be speaking with bankers and venture capitalists. Government can only take and harm in the form of taxes and regulations. And, when it takes from one and gives to another, picking winners and losers. You've just about lost me forever with your comments and the comments lauding Sen. Boxer, a one-senator force of destruction against the free market if there ever was one. Stop trying to sell your product on the pages of Big Government — that's not what the site is for!
Lockes,
go to the comment I posted above, a Ca Senate candidate Chuck Devore R, replied to to my comment, I doubt it will give you any comfort but maybe you can get a reply, I hope it is better than the ones I got out of him.
Again, Capstone is a California Corporations, a public corporation CPST, I don't work for them I don't sell their product for them. I am A US citizen trying to get the Tea Party to understand that there are proven technologies that can stop cap and trade, lower energy cost and reduce carbon, and pay for themselves while accomplishing all the above.
As for needing a US Senator why are you promoting loans for utilities nuclear plants, let them go get venture capital, do a secondary or cut their dividend. If the loan is so safe and secure they should have no problem….capstone has to compete with your government funded utility.
As for you telling me what and what I cannot post here, you are wrong! Energy security, environment, jobs, all included in a capstone post, all included in a combined heat and power post. Why don't you ask your local utility about it and learn a little something before you speak.
All depends on where you grab the data on the time line. Seeing how we don't even have images of the ice packs before around 1960, nobody knows if this is uncommon or not. Sorry but this isn't even a data point.
Its not that global warming doesn't occur. It occurs. The Earth warms and cools all the time. Watch History of the Earth on Sci Disc. But the claim is these events are ONLY caused by human activity. That is nearly impossible to prove since too many smoking guns exist. Its not even shown humans could globally alter the climate at all.
I was in the same boat I really liked Chuck DeVore, in fact I recently urged him to enter the Governors race since conservatives are not represented by either Jerry Brown or Meg "Phony" Whitman, but he said it was too late very disappointing but don't give up California will come back soon enough they have to.
Got that movie today–haven't watched it yet. Don't know when.
Typical politician, got his big government is bad talking points in, doesn't know anything about combined heat and power–even though it powers 10% of the country. Doesn't know about very important manufacturing corporations in his own state. Corporations that are forced to compete against his government selection of big utility controlled nuclear power. Excuses the nuclear industry for "needing" a government loan because of government regulation–no need to fix the government as long as they have our money?? And tells capstone to fly a kite–if it "pencils out" then capstone should raise capital to compete against government funding.
Scary that a guy running for Senate does not have a clue about the power industry!!
If I was vindictive I would email BB with this thread, not for you being ignorant, for you getting BG to delete my post….but I ain't vindictive, although you deserve it.
Aren't Democrats doing a GREAT job!
"US Says Bankruptcies Reach Nearly 5-Year High"
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38744090
You clearly haven't bothered to learn about my record. Further, I haven't told you what to post, merely cited your comment that I am somehow corrupted by the same utilities that have opposed my five bills in the past four years to lift California's obsolete moratorium on the construction of modern nuclear power plants — plants that would need no loan guarantees if we changed the federal laws that allow environmental lawyers to sue them into financial ruin before they even generate one kilowatt. Then, ironically, after claiming that I am corrupted by the utilities, you then say that I should, "ask your local utility about it and learn a little something before you speak." Which is it? I won't bother to reply anymore.
Typical CA…let's buy "green energy"(that isn't really green) and punish those who pay for it! All this policy is doing is moving the source of the pollution out of CA….how is that saving the planet!???It is a "fee" scam, period.
Oh yeah, well we will make our own toilet paper with all those closed saw mills we have!So there!
At least when your head explodes we can harness some of that energy!
Yeah, I'm surprised Arnold has not bought a house in HI and gotten US citizenship from there…
LOL!!!!!!!! Thanks for that, I didn't see it that way. If Iran finds that out about me, I would be in trouble.
You and I are on the same side, You could save the Republican party. You could bring environmentalist into the party, you could use Obama sec. of energy's own words to do it with…."efficiency is the low hanging fruit" and the DOEs own Road Map to do it with. Now I don't expect you to take my word for it so I posted some quotes from the EPA DOE ORNL EERE—I can post all the A-Z government unabashed recommendations and links, but I don't have the power or influence that you do.
Here quotes from the DOE, EPA, ORNL, EERE…tis is what Isaid to ask the utilities about–they hate CHP though, you really should ask capstone.
DOE: "Fortunately, there is an energy solution available right now that can help address
these problems today. CHP uses less energy, produces less emissions, and
accomplishes more work than equivalently sized conventional energy generation
facilities. CHP offers win-win-win solutions by attacking energy, economic, and
environmental problems"
DOE: "CHP Provides a Profitable Path to “Going Green”"
"Hospitals, universities, and manufacturers have installed hundreds of CHP systems because they offer a cost-effective way to meet their energy requirements. As more businesses and institutions take steps to “green” their campuses, they find that CHP technology is not only more affordable than other options—it provides a net cost savings."
EPA: CHP is first and foremost an energy efficiency resource. It allows users to produce needed electricity, heat, and mechanical energy while using as little fuel as possible. As an efficiency technology, CHP can lower overall energy demand, reduce reliance on traditional energy supplies, make businesses more competitive, cut GHG emissions, and reduce the need for infrastructure improvements. Because of its inherent efficiency, performance, and reliability, CHP is an effective near-term solution that can address the Nation’s current and future energy needs.
Dump them all! The Communists. Get out of our Country, and definitely out of any public office. NEVER AGAIN!
Dude, try reading this. http://www.c3headlines.com/chartsimagespdfs/
Face it, global warming is nothing more than a man-made hoax. It did start as global cooling long time ago, then changed to warming by Al Gore, and when that was proven wrong, they now call it climate change. All these eco-idiots do is just change the name of the so-called crisis to get what they want passed. Sadly, but you bought into this hoax hook line and sinker.
Support on the left for nuclear power is sort of like support on the left for solar power. They claim to support it, but solar farms require land that would inconvenience fragile desert ecosystems. They require water that is needed for endangered fish to clean dust off the panels. The remote farms would also require extensive transmission lines that nobody wants running through their backyard. That's the way you guys treat a technology you claim to support. I've lived through 3-mile Island, so I know exactly how the left feels about nuclear power, and they don't consider it "green."
The disparity is worse than Mr De Vore has indicated.
In California, the privately-owned utility PG&E charges residential households between 11.9 to 49.8 cents per kilowatt hour. These are among the highest rates in the nation.
In British Columbia, the publicly-owned BC Hydro charges its residential customers a flat fee of 7.4 cents per kilowatt hour. Large industrial utilities pay even less: on average, 3.7 cents per kilowatt hour.
According to the Vancouver Sun, "Net [BC Hydro] income for the year ending March 31, 2010 was $447 million, up from $365 million a year earlier. Revenues for the period were down 10 per cent to $3.82 billion from $4.27 billion but at the same time expenses dropped 5.6 per cent." [published 8 July 2010]
BC Hydro charges less, and earns more.
Clearly, the Canadians are getting the better deal. Per household their energy efficiencies are higher than ours, and achieved in a more difficult winter climate.
If we weren't so profligate, California could do more with less. Our waste is appalling. And look at the results. This is another reason we are going broke.
If you really think about it, the left has no idea what "green" really is, except when its the "green" they are taking out of everybodies pockets.
Actually, I looked it up and cannot quite figure out what you are promoting. I see Combined Heat and Power as a solar installation like they have near Barstow, that most of the time is not operational as a solar concentration to gather energy. I see geothermal being promoted as CHP, and I see coal powered little local plants being promoted as CHP to recycle the heated water for electricity. So, I've seen you post many times about this pet project of yours, but until you 'splain it to us dummies, I don't know which version (or another) that you are promoting. Not downing on you, just not quite sure which camp you are in.
I KNOW you are not corrupted, sir. Might 'splain why you will be in and needed in the civilian and private economic world right now. There will come a time when we need you to step up again, for your country and our State, and you have the Tea Party movement support. Good luck dealing with what time you have left in the legislature.
Sore doesn't seem to be a bad guy, just a little emphatic about what he does know, and judgmental about people he does not. Thank you for responding to the posts, as it lets all of us know a little more about you personally.
Dad gum right you are. But there are still a lot of us in CA are sticking around who will put things back together, once given the chance by the rest of the bewildered.
FIRE-FIGHT with ECO-MOBSTERS
Hi trent. You are so right. I am looking at my SDG&E bill, and here's the numbers.
Baseline allowance = 307 kwh @.039 (I can't run a fridge and a computer for this baseline)
Over baseline = 19.7 cents
Plus – BOND charges of 1/2 cent, DELIVERY charges of 8 cents per kwH = 27.5 cents per kwh TOTAL
My brother-in-law in BC Canada – locked in at 4.7 cents per kw for the next 5 years.
Hi Bassett:
I appreciate the confirmation. These figures are certainly a matter of public record in both jurisdictions.
Then the question: if BC Hydro can charge less and make more, what's wrong with our private utilities in California?
Someone is getting ripped off, and it's not the people of British Columbia — as your brother-in-law knows very well. They pay less, and get more.
We pay more, get less, and our state goes bankrupt. This is not to our credit.
Thanks!
Trent
— On Tue, 8/17/10, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
FioRINO…That's good!!
I think we've talked about this before…Many Conservative voters are going for Jerry Moonbeam…First: He's a 2nd Amendment proponent
2nd to hasten the decline so we can get to starting over …NutMeg will just prolong the coming agony…
I understand, they add solar because of the heat, not the same as solar cells alone…but I am talking about traditional CHP know as distributed generation or CHP….
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/industry/distributede...
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/industry/distributede...
Basset I appreciate that I was short, my post always come off as short tempered, when really I am a cuddly kind of guy
It fry's me when government wants tax payers to fund, loan money because government has screwed up an industry–government regulations have laid waste to nuclear power and instead of fixing government we are asked for government funds to to fight government regulations. Do you see the problem with that kind of system–that is a system that does not function. I am just a simple guy but that seems like a mess IMO.
And I get "If it pencils out, just do it." LOL I hope Mr Devore can see the humor in that.
There is a 3rd party runner supported by my tea party Chelene Nightingale. I went to Phoenix and Tucson to hear her speak and she was at several of our Rallies. I know that voting for a 3rd party is a lost cause, but as an acquaintance of mine told me "I can't face God knowing I voted for either Meg or Jerry". Either one is as bad as the other so Chelene is going to get my vote. HPD you are correct it's a lose/lose situation we may as well just leave the fate up to chance. I encourage Californians to go with the 3rd party, it most certainly CANNOT hurt us.
I think I will still be around, but it's pretty tempting to go to AZ
I think you are probably correct in this case …We really have a Prog (Jerry) and a ProgLite (NutMeg), so I would give a 3rd Party a shot…Couldn't hurt…
Hell, I'd vote for you…You have common sense…
It wasn't so bad. At least he supported some sort of nuclear technology–30 year old tech, but at least it is nuclear tech. The CHP you promote still hasn't reached a tipping point in terms of general understanding. The problem is that there are so many who will fight to the death against ANY additional energy source (because Gaia just CRIES out to them to stop the rape</sarc>) a new idea is particularly susceptible to misinformation. And since the left lives on promulgating lies, I suspect your CHP is very vulnerable. It probably will hurt a rat or generate a modicum of plant fertilizer (also known as CO2).
Thanks for the vote of confidence LOL! We were talking about that work today. I brought up the demise of CA and let my co-workers know that if I were in charge of the money we would be a State with a rating of AAA. It's not rocket science to balance a checkbook. I had a close friend teach me how when I was 26 years old and I have not been over drawn since then. Ohhhh I am too frustrated for words. I went to see the Expendables tonight and I got a small ovation from the theater goers. When the Governator played his small bit part Sly said "Who are you waiting for" and in walked the man who would be Governor and I said loudly much to my son's dismay and embarrassment "The loser running California" and a few people clapped for me and a few laughed and my son said "Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
Come on, Mom…How embarrassing…!
But it's not just balancing a checkbook…It's putting in place policies that nourish and support a friendly business climate….Then the State Treasury will be flush with coin and you'll have something to balance…
As it is now, this state alone is on the hook for a cool half-TRILLION…and rising as the corrupt fraudulent unions position themselves for more and more….
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