California’s Costly High-Speed Rail Hoax: Using Borrowed Money to Build a Flawed Train
by Chuck DeVoreCalifornia has the worst bond rating in the nation, hovering just above junk bond status. A lower bond rating means higher interest rates when selling bonds – and California already spends $10 billion per year in bond principal and interest repayments.
In this, as in many other things, California leads the nation, for better or for worse (repaying the money borrowed for President Obama’s Stimulus will cost every American $280 a month for life).
Some people place a portion of California’s debt problem at the feet of voters who approve nearly every bond initiative, from $3 billion for an embryonic stem cell research bond to $10 billion in debt to build a high-speed rail system.
It’s hard to blame citizens of the Golden State for voting for debt when the most famous Californian, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, proclaims bonds “a gift from the future.” It’s also hard to blame voters for approving bonds when the bond ballot descriptions and arguments are chock full of shaky claims.
Take November 2008’s much promoted High-Speed Rail Initiative, Proposition 1A. Voters approved it by 52-48 after proponents, such as train manufacturers and unions poured $2.5 million into the effort. As with almost every bond measure, there was no funded opposition. The measure’s proponents, big business and labor unions, claimed that the trains would offer time-saving travel “AT A CHEAPER COST!” than air travel or car. And that, the train would, “give Californians a real alternative to skyrocketing gasoline prices and dependence on foreign oil while reducing greenhouse gases. Building high-speed rail is cheaper than expanding highways and airports to meet California’s population growth.”
Really? Who checks these claims?
A widely read California columnist recently noted that the cost estimates for the fast train were rapidly unraveling only 18 months after the vote. According to the signed ballot argument train fares were sold to voters as going for “about $50 a person” for a ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco. Now the estimated cost for that same train ticket has soared to $105. The doubled cost to riders has tanked train ridership estimates by one-third.
An additional report from the San Jose Mercury News revealed that the train’s crucial ridership numbers were based on an unpublished study rather than the disclosed peer reviewed documents. A High Speed Rail Authority internal memo indicates the public employees deliberately withheld the final assumptions, presumably to ease passage of the controversial bond initiative. (A trick learned from the Global Warming community, perhaps?)
Meanwhile, as the state teeters on insolvency, the repayment cost is still anticipated by the High-Speed Rail Authority to hit $647 million annually, an estimate that lacks even a basic level of credibility as California’s bond interest rates are expected to soar as they reach junk status.
I was pleased to author the arguments against Proposition 1A, along with Tom McClintock, then a Senator, now a Congressman, Senator George Runner, Jon Coupal, President of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, and others. We wrote that repaying the bond would cost $20 billion; or about $2,000 for each California family of four over the life of the bond. If California’s bonds go to junk status, the annual repayment cost would escalate to more than $960 million per year, taking an additional $1,000 bite out of the typical California family’s budget over 30 years.
Further, the bond repayment costs will be in addition to a heavy yearly subsidy from state taxpayers to keep the train from operating in the red. This train subsidy will take scarce tax funds from road and highway construction, as well as such mundane things as buses for urban mass transit.
California is tapped out. We can borrow no more. The question is, will voters realize this and start to hold on tight to their wallets in future elections?
As for the rest of America, look to California and take careful notice: incurring mountains of debt without the ability to reliably repay it comes at a high cost. Out of control debt encumbers future generations with crushing repayment obligations – essentially subjecting America’s youth to taxation without representation while consigning them to a life with a lower standard of living than their parents and grandparents.






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221 Comments
Only in California! Oops…Wait! They are doing that in Florida too!!! Just what we need…..! A train to NOWHERE!!! They're so happy to be spending OUR money, and they don't even bother to ask us if it's ok!!!! IT'S NOT!!!
I agree….To construct a High-Speed Train in California is just as rediculous as installing a High-Speed Train in Florida. Just how will these projects boost or economy in the LONG RUN? Govt. Sponsered, Govt. Owned, Govt. Operated, we all know very well that the Govt. CAN NOT, let me repeat CAN NOT run anything efficiently!
There's enough crazy people in California, I spose they need a crazy train? I wonder how Ozzie would feel about that?
And considering Amtrak has been so succesful…Why not? I mean, rail travel is the next big breakthrough on the horizon after all. Just look what it did for the gold rush back in the mid 1800's.
And I keep forgetting…Is California the 56th or 57th State?
amtrak…need I say more….
It will be interesting to see what happens when the rich folks really flee the oppressive taxes of that state. Can it survive on only tourism? Not on my dime. So they go BK, what then? A clean slate? Who will ever loan them money to support all the big spending? Would I buy any Cali bonds as an investor? Nope, not once you have burned the market. Californians need to wake up and do some seious cutting. If they want unlimited welfare, then let the people who want it figure out how to pay for it. MASS EXODUS?
the WPA is alive and well…
Let's make work! Here's a bunch of taxpayer money- let's find a good union operation in a nice Blue state with compliant left wing politicos and build something REALLY expensive, with lots of featherbedding that NO ONE will use.
Yep, great idea. Let's take it nationwide…
I live in Florida and will vote for the high speed train, providing, there is a stop in front of my house. /sarc
This train will costs trillions to finish, be subsidized by WE THE PEOPLE, run by unions. Then the govt will start taxing gsoline so much that we will have to give up our cars and become sheep riding this train. Then the govt would have control to shut it down ( when they felt it was necessary ) in particular cities as a punishment or for further control. It just boggles my mind that people want more government. Can't they see what is happening in Venezula? Gheeze he just asked Cuba for help !!
Tea Party train…. runs on hate, and is lubricated by fear. Stands for nothing.
I was surprised to read that California isnt at junk bond rates already !!! 547bil in debt with no way to pay, a legislator that just passed healthcare for all with no way to pay…
At this point the best thing for california, all American's move out and the last one hand the keys back to Mexico !! I'd rather drop a star from the flag then force the other 49 states to pay for its foolish policies !!
Whatever happened to the passenger train construct talk that was supposed to connect L.A to Las Vegas over the Cajon Pass?
THAT was the funniest most ludicrous bit I heard from Antonio Villar, and Swarzze. Talk about a vacuum sucking money out of California to Las Vegas in one fell swoop!! Who goes to LV from CA? Why? Answer that question- you'l get my point.
BTW- Metro lines are losing money. They keep raising fares Pasadena lines run empty..I see it all the time. Government is the basket case of inefficiency.
Art follows reality,,,
The high-speed train was the center-piece for the pilot episode for the Fox drama Human Targetm with the chief engineer under threat by an assasin. When the hero-bodyguard asks how much the train was going to cost, he half-jokingly said he might kill his client himself,
…Relevance?
Californians need to be placed under court ordered guardianship. The voters have repeatedly demonstrated that they are incapable of rational thought or even to take care of themselves.
I would prefer a shift in the San Andreas fault, but your idea may work too…LOL
Designed by liberal Democrats, the train will go around in circles, be powered by taxpayer welfare dollars and only run in the dark. It will not run on Christmas or Easter Sunday and seating will be assigned on the basis of affirmative action in order to maximize diversity. The train will require a daily greasing by union funds.
California would find a way to make Conestoga wagons over cost.
hey, wait a minute, they are going to build another line from chicago to st. louis too. so the welfare recipients can easily go from the projects in chicago to the beautiful city of east st. louis. i'll bet the cost of this tran ride will be higher than southwest airlines, and it will be no faster.
I say sell California to the Chinese to settle our debt. Let them deal with the freaks on the left coast. It would be amazing to see how quickly these 'america haters' start to love what they once had. There is so much oil off-shore in California that would fund every debt the state has. If they will not do what they need and can do to help themselves, let them rot.
Go ahead, let California sign its own economic death warrant. Let it serve as an awful object lesson in the fruits of liberalism.
if these trains were such a good thing why is it that private investors aren't doing this? the only investors on this train ride are all the people who own companies supplying the materials needed to build this overpriced boondoggle. trains are so good, i'll bet the people just love riding in trains. how is the passenger train industry going, oh wait, amtrack is forever stealing more and more money from the government, with no end in site. so to make our investment in amtrack pay, we will just sink a few hundred billion more into it, and reacess the return on our "investment", sounds like what the private sector would do?
Hilarious, California is paying high rates on your bonds, and instead of spending all the Stimulus road money on repairing the roads that you have, and can't afford to keep repaired, you build more which you won't be able to afford to repair.
And after experiencing $4/gal+ gas, you argue for boxing the state into paying $80b+ on roadworks to avoid paying <$50b on HSR.
No wonder California's finances are screwed up – nobody in your state can do simple arithmetic.
They are irrelevant.
number 31 in State Admissions, number 1 in fruits, nuts, vegetables, lefties, welfare, illegal aliens and numb-skulls
"They" meaning you?
I posted relevance as it applies to the thread.
frank lloyd wright had a great saying, when god created the earth, he lifted it up the the edges, and everything loose rolled into california.
It’s hard to blame citizens of the Golden State for voting for debt when the most famous Californian, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, proclaims bonds “a gift from the future.” It’s also hard to blame voters for approving bonds when the bond ballot descriptions and arguments are chock full of shaky claims.
I respectfully disagree. The citizens of California, where I lived for 10 years when this hit the fan, deserve the blame. They voted for this. If they are so uninformed as to fall for the ad campaigns and for failing to realize that selling bonds requires taxpayer money to pay for it then California deserves the government it gets.
but first construct the great wall to china, so thier new people cannot sneak out. if we give them california, let them have the people with it!
Sounds like I struck a nerve. Thanks for playing.
not close to what Pelosi or Feinstein's net worth, Boxer's net worth was less tham 10 million, Feinstein was over 100 million, Pelosi's was way up there too.
Moonbeam already screwed this state once, get it didn't hurt bad enough the first time, eh?
no way will I vote for Whitman – she is being endorsed by Pete Wilson, another ex-governor with no vision.
I vote no on every bond issue (unless it is for disable veteran housing – which to me should be free for their sacrifices they already made).
when is our state Tea Party convention in California?, none of the retreads running currently have any real plans (maybe Poizner does with his 10/10/10 tax cuts).
Solution: dissolve all union contracts, enact law – NO state workers in unions. 80% of state deficits come from pensions for unions, Willie Brown said it himself (who is main reason we now have term limits here)
FLASH!!
This Brand New Video Blows a Huge Gaping Hole in Obama's Cap and Tax Scheme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVm5-6H_sH4
Why is the California State GOP so inept and corrupt?
all the Metro trains were designed by rocket scientists too, they all stop one mile short of LAX, are the taxi drivers in a union too?
Actually it runs on the broken tracks of a government stimulus bill and other obscene spending. Maybe it'll come to your nearby Amtrak station.
You struck yourself in the foot with that dopey irrelevant tea party comment. Now goad someone else into arguing with you before the adults get back.
If people want to go places they should buy cars… like a good republican.
G.E. builds locomotives don't they?
Hmmm….G.E./White House ?
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/perm...
LOL..I'm merely pointing out your lack of relevance as it pertains to this thread. And that seemed to have struck a nerve with you, not me…!
How does it feel to be irrelevant?
Tea party's worst fear is they be held accountable to govern. They are much more comfortable standing on the outside throwing bricks. People who win elections have to govern, and we was in 2001 how well that worked out for them.
The folks they put into office melted down the financial markets and gave us the worst recession in 50 years. Now the teaparty won't even admit they put Bush in office.
from what I heard on KFI afternoon talk show, that the initial 10 billion was not even the full price of the cost in the first place, it was actually only 25% of the actual cost, AND when do the bond issues ever cost what they say they will anyway, seems to me they are ALWAYS priced under the actual cost, how much under did that tunnel in Boston cost?
Tom McClintock is one of the most sensible public servants in the state, but this state has NO common sense to elect a fellow like him to governor.
You sound angry Mik…do you want to ride the choo-choo?
A senseless post… spoken as a typical teapartier with no ideas. The guys you voted for guys who created the biggest financial mess since the great depression and you act like it is somehow California's fault? Look in the mirror.
When they do pass something sensible, a special interest group goes to court and overturns the will of the people. Along with guardianship, it sounds like it’s time for the people of CA to storm the Bastille!
What with all the kooks, nut jobs, immigrants, vegans and self righteous celebrities, it seems like California would be the last place you would want to have a public referendum on anything………..Did I miss offending anyone?………Actually, I lived in Escondido for a few years and loved it, but my body building hero Arnold needs to seriously cut the fat, and I'm not talking about his biceps.
The people of California want their choo-choo. The cost is somebody else’s problem.
We don't owe China that much money. Let's sell them Alabama…. or just give it to them. Let's see if the commies can deal with racist whitetrash.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you should move there and see if they need advice from more high school dropouts.
Another nerve… a twofer.
This thread is as relevant as all the other threads on this site… just another excuse for more right wing whining about the government. Nothing ever changes here.
I would. And I would like to see more investment in mass transit and infrastructure. You never get that from the anti government crowd.
The Tea Party citizens are from all walks of life – conservative, moderate, democrat, republican, libertarian, black, white, brown. They are people who are fed up with ALL government, no matter which side of the aisle, that is taking us down the road to bankruptcy AND violating the Constitution at every turn.
The relevance of your post in relation to the thread you boob…
Irrelevance is your hallmark after all…
What would you know about the "Tea Party" and their fears…?
Actually it was Barney Frank and Chris Dodd that perpetuated this financial mess. GW Bush tried repeatedly to stop the risky loans at Fannie and Freddie, but Barney Frank (and he is on video) kept saying that they were financially strong – right up until they went under. Carter and Clinton also deserve blame because they had the notion that everyone had the right to own their own home. That is not true. If you can't afford a down payment and can't afford the monthly payments and are the type that can't keep up with home maintenance then you DON'T have the right to own a home – you need to be a renter.
You need to check your facts before placing blame.
The teaparty is old, white and angry. And all they know of the Constitution is a cartoon version that fits neatly into their world view. It's a joke.
Yeah, we don't owe China much – just 3 TRILLION dollars. Trouble with you libs is that you are always playing with someone ELSE'S money so it never fazes you just how badly in debt the US is.
FACTS please?
You are no big mystery…. I know exactly who you are.
You are white, lower middle class, angry at your station in life and need someone to blame so you blame the government. Your fear is that no one respects you and you are right to be afraid because no one does respect you. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
Guess you didn't see the pictures, huh? Lots of "other than white", lots of "other than old". But they were certainly all angry. So tell me, what do YOU know of the Constitution. None of this stimulus spending is constitutional.
Works for me! And evidently for you libs too – since Detroit is run by the Auto Workers union.
You are white, lower middle class, angry at your station in life and need someone to blame so you blame the government. Your fear is that no one respects you and you are right to be afraid because no one does respect you. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
You just described every liberal I know, just take out lower and put upper in there.
That comment shows how little you know about the cause of the meltdown. The moral hazard that Fannie and Freddie exposed tax payers to was one sixth of that created by the unregulated derivatives market that is still threatening us.
You have a right wing blogger-view of history and economics.
But StoryKeeper – don't you understand that California can't "wreck its coast"? That is for someone else to do (even though it doesn't happen). They are the picture of NIMBY. Let them eat cake.
FACTS, come on , FACTS!
How about a one-way train from LA right into Mexico City?
Good, now formulate a thought that doesn't mimic Keith Olbermann and I can actually talk to you like an adult.
We citizens of Florida have been somewhat successful in stopping high speed rail here, but Charlie Crist and some members of the legislature have given us a giant middle finger. Just one more reason to vote for Marco Rubio in the primary. The governor's race is important too, one of the Republican candidates did fight in the state senate to end high speed rail. Perhaps she would be more effective in that fight in the Governor's mansion.
So a stimulus package that was passed by both houses of congress and signed by the president is unconstitutional? That is the definition of Constitutional, unless you want to argue that it trampled on some rights of yours that the rest of us are unaware of…
No, here's what you're doing step-by-step:
Spew nonsensical arguments about someone you don't like or agree with.
Make the argument so absurd that even anyone with half a functioning brain cell would be slightly upset or be compelled to differ with you.
When they differ, say you struck a nerve and declare yourself a winner.
Repeat ad infinitum.
No facts, no argument, no reasoning at all. I'm glad people with half a brain get pissed at you even if it is what you want because you're just like Jon Stewart: you don't know shit about what you're talking about and when you are pressed for facts or anything to back up what you just said, just say "Oh, well I struck a nerve hurr durr" and crawl back under the bridge.
Come on folks. Who backed this thing?
The train company and the union who would be in charge of the rrailroad.
what more needs saying?
Your cognitive bias and psychological projections are quite jejune…
Then you don't know too many liberals.
" companies supplying the materials needed to build this overpriced boondoggle "
Can you say G.E.?
Read the articles and maybe you'll learn something as opposed to pulling everything out of your ass.
Please Dan, don't go changing for me. Stay just the way you are.
I guess California will wake up when hell freezes over.
My biases may not interest everyone, but you keep responding.
You can always go BACK to your Huffington site..>!!
Really, that's why David Webb, a black man, co-organized a tea party? Is that why Lloyd Marcus headlined at the DC Tea Party and C. Mason Weaver spoke at it?
Just shut up, and yes you did strike a nerve with your stupidity.
See also "SMART" in Sonoma and Marin counties. Same pie-in-the-sky ridership and fare projections pushed to con the populace into voting for a 1/4c sales tax, and now – shockingly! – revenue projections are tanking and projected cost is going through the roof. Are we ever going to learn from history???
I would never compare myself to Jon Stewart, but thanks. I consider that a complement.
Oh, you're such a martyr for trolling in this site! Don't you change either, you're a treasure trove of unintentional comedy.
Then you don't know shit about conservatives yourself…
I wish you could see ol mikatollah grinning right now…. gotcha.
Another invite to leave… this has been a good day.
Watch your mouth Dan…. we have to remember our manners.
Yeah, a big-shit eating grin I assume. Declare yourself victorious in your own mind and fuck off already.
Seriously, shut the fuck up. I'm beyond caring about anything I say to you at this rate, you have said nothing to merit the slightest twinge of respect from me.
"Advertising'
The news media in California, both establishment and old alternative, are in league with the Dhimmi Left.
Whatever floats your boat.
Our debt didn't worry you when George Bush was fighting two wars on credit and giving the wealthiest taxpayers the largest tax break in history. Makes it difficult to take you seriously now… just political sour grapes.
An invite to leave? No, just a suggestion. We love having losers who come whose only intent is to goad people into arguments and then go, "Look! Look! Angry-right wingers at Big Government!"
Lemme ask you something, do you like circus bears?
Well that is pretty obvious from your filthy mouth. Your mother would be ashamed of her little dan.
But there is one thing interesting about this site. If you type ga- y they will censor your post. But you can drop f-bombs all day and they don't seem to mind. I don't care either, I just thought it was interesting.
Now sir, where did get the slightest idea that we were anti-government? That would place me in the category of an anarchist which is a theory I do not subscribe to at all.
Surely, my friend, you are mistaken in your assessment of the people who frequent this site.
Never cared for the circus… or zoos either for that matter. Just doesn't seem fair, intelligent humans taking advantage of less fortunate creatures.
Still, it doesn't keep me from hanging out here.
On the contrary, it would be you that feels it necessary to continue. You have not even answered my original question. Yet you still reply??? Is it because you are unable to? Is it because you really have no point to make other than you're a fan of hate?
Your insipid remarks lend nothing to the conversation. And after all, we are here to debate aren't we…?
Just doesn't seem fair, intelligent humans taking advantage of less fortunate creatures
Sorry for taking advantage of you and that you feel that way about us. We usually try to be cordial to less unfortunate creatures like you.
No, I would never mistake anyone here for an anarchist. That would take guts.
All I see here is cowardly whining and impotent threats.
Dan, I've underestimated you… you are a great American.
They do mind, I would assume, and my previous comment may get deleted. So be it.
You're like that smart alecky kid in grade school who keeps annoying kids behind the teacher's back and then when one of them finally punches you, you just cry to the teacher and play innocent. You're worse than a bully, at least they were honest jerks.
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