More Evidence NY’s Cigarette Tax Hike Was a Bust
by Capitol Confidential
The Empire State is struggling to bring in additional tax revenue it projected it would gain from efforts to stop smokers from buying untaxed cigarettes on Indian Reservations, reports the New York Post:
The state’s tax collectors were recently calling around to convenience-store owners, wondering what was up. The $130 million in extra tax that Albany was expecting from a change in the law about cigarette sales on Indian reservations wasn’t happening.
A memo sent to members of the New York Association of Convenience Stores from the group’s president, Jim Calvin — a copy of which I have on my desk — said, “I got a call from Gov. Cuomo’s budget office yesterday. In examining cigarette tax receipts so far this fiscal year (April 1 to March 31) it looks like they will fall considerably short of their projection in new revenues. . . .”
The state had hoped to get the extra dough by enforcing a new law that made it illegal for licensed cigarette wholesalers in the state to sell untaxed name-brand cigarettes like Newport and Marlboro to Indian reservations.
Why the need for the extra measures focused on Indian Reservation sales in the first place?
In short, going “On The Reservation” and buying untaxed, name-brand cigarettes became an appealing prospect to many smokers following New York’s institution of a $1.60 per pack cigarette tax hike in 2010:
The reservation store would sell the cigarettes to non-Indian customers who were trying to avoid the hefty taxes imposed by the state. The state and legitimate sellers of cigarettes were both hurt.
The sale of nontaxed smokes by stores on Indian reservations became an issue two years ago when the state cigarette tax was raised significantly and many smokers took more of their business to reservations — or to Internet sellers — whose packs aren’t taxed. Some folks even bought lower-taxed cigs smuggled in from out of state.
The news that New York could be $130 million short of projected revenue as a result of its particular approach to sin tax policy may serve as a timely reminder to legislatures kicking off their sessions in states around the country where cigarette tax increases are being proposed, either by lawmakers or influential interest groups.
Among those states are Alabama, Georgia, Idaho, and Maryland, the latter of which in particular is no stranger to the issue of black-market sale of smuggled cigarettes.
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92 Comments
HA HA HA HA serves the tax & spend liberals right.
Do they ever need any evidence to see that taxation is a bust? It will always be a bust, as long as crooks are managing the revenue. Since the ratification of the 16th amendment, taxation with criminals controlling the proceeds amounts to slavery.
STARVE THE BEAST
.
Frick'n addicts….and I'm not talking about smokers!
I go to Indain reservations in NY all the time to pick up cheap smokes. You can save quite a bit doing that.
I just want to say thanks to the Seneca Nation Indians in Salamanca for keeping my cigs cheap.
Now i didn't have to give up smoking as my New Year resolution this year!
noblamas smoking czar is probably upset with me.
COOL!
Can anyone give me an example of when some government entity gave an estimate of revenues which actually came in as stated or more? Just like the feds and their 10 year projections of savings or revenue enhancers, all fabricated to make it sound good but never seems to happen. Crooks, liars, and just plain old idiots.
No matter which way they point their gun, they shoot themselves in the foot… ; ) I love it!
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Liberals blow!!! Really. It never adds up but let's just keep doing it…DUH!
Liberalism, that's gonna leave a mark!
Raising taxes on cigarettes didn't work and it won't matter a bit. The lefties will continue pushing for higher and higher taxes along with more and more government spending and regulation no matter how often it turns out that those ideas don't work. It's the only answer to problems they seem to have. Without the demand for tax increases and more government programs the lefties are lost. It's all they know.
And the reservations cannot get their cigarettes from other sources? And the state government has control over a reservation how?
spending, or revenue? they always seem to spend more then anticipated, and always seem to raise less then anticipated.
DANG! Now they will want more disability money!
Good Sunday Morning my friend.
The Post article just mis-spoke, Matt. The Indians have no problem buying un-taxed smokes and selling them to Indians, that's the law.
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http://pjmedia.com/blog/sopa-and-protect-ip-a-lin...
Bill Text
112th Congress (2011-2012)
H.R.3261.IH
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.32...
"The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves."
George Washington
The new tax on smokes probably did bring in a bit more money, maybe not even close to the $130M projected (but I don't think it was really $110M short). The problem is, New York spent it before they got it! The increased revenue was included in their budget. Now they have to raise the tax again or get it from somewhere else.
Dumbasses!
NYC is a bastion of Socialist Dem Pigs. They tax every hard working American to death, AND after death they tax their kids; yet they are a Sanctuary City that loves & protects Illegal Alien criminals, and WE support them thru taxes!
Tax money in NY goes to the "tax & spend" Dem bureaucrats to pay each other, the Union bosses, and to support the traitors in D.C. Then the "bleeding heart liberals" whine & cry that they need to raise taxes again.
Then Obama comes to town and leaves after 3 Fund Raisers, with millions of dollars.
Let's see, the tanning tax hasn't worked and the cig tax hasn't worked. Seems simple to me. Lower the tax, increase sales, and receive more revenue. Stupid progressives. One wonders why they constantly open mouth and insert foot? Must be due to their limited number of brain cells.
Whatever happened to
"uniform among the several States"?
True it is that each state government is empowered with various authorities but they are still supposed to be bound by republican form of government. Within that form of government are imposed boundaries that are to be respected.
The Sixteenth and Seventeenth Amendments did as much to destroy this nation, the republic, as did the Eighteenth. We fixed the latter already and we should do the same thing with the former.
We must rein in these runaway governments by once again putting Individual Liberty, and personal responsibility that goes along with it, first and foremost – as in front of and more important than government (local, state and federal) empowerment.
You mean the news media got something wrong? Never!
If the state really wanted to do something, they could set up checkpoints, like a border, and check for things purchased by non-tribal members on reservations.. However, tribes (who, if Washington State is any indication) pump tons of cash into elections — and the politicians do not want to rock that boat.
$11.00 for a pack of smokes in NY state. A majority of those who don't simply quit will find a cheaper alternative source.
Not very difficult to foresee, unless you live in fantasy land, like the tax and spend crowd ..
It will fail and go up in smoke as everything else government does. Pun intended!
Once again, liberal delusion face-plants into hard reality.
;-D Afternoon SC, hope you're having a beautiful day in Az, … I have mid 60's and a sandstorm brewin'… the first one of 2012.
LMAO!!! Yep, there's only one appendage that's out of bounds, and that's the one that aids in procreation. The more babies, the more WIC and food stamps that can be collected. ;-(
Enjoy your Sunday!
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Raising taxes on cigarettes always has one of two effects: people quit, or they find new places to get them.
In either case, the result is usually little growth or net loss of revenue.
raising taxes to CONTROL social behavior
is WRONG no matter WHAT..
i mean $15.00 for a PACK of smokes!!!
glad it FAILED
BWAAA HAHAHAHAHA
TAX DAT SUM BICH
LOL, Matt! You've just hit another nail on the head!
However, I don't think the Post set out to get it wrong. I think they just phrased it improperly.
It's those enviromentally-friendly, non-judgemental, muti-denominational, appendage-seeking bullets they use.
On sale at Harvard. $4,569.45/bx of 25.
Heh!…..
Which is more addictive…..
Nicotine or Tax Revenue?
I can get cigarettes on the internet mailed directly to my house for about $28 a carton, and they don't use that awful fire safe paper. I love the commercials about all the harmful chemicals in cigarettes, but don't mention the crappy paper the government imposed on us a couple years ago that contains most of them.
I've been using the electric cigarettes to get around the shrinking smoking territory, although I usually duck into a rest room to avoid confrontations.
Screw you nanny state. If I was a crack addict, some places give you free pipes, but don't even think about smoking a cigarette.
If they lowered the price to $5.00/pk, they would probably triple revenue.
Democrat: We do not recognize reality. In my forthcoming legislation, I shall legislate against it.
Now, they have progressed too spend and then tax!
Which is more devious, detrimental, deleterious, destructive and deadly – the addiction to tobacco or the addiction to other people's money?
So when will Plaxico Burress run for office???????
The liberals never learn. Daily we see examples of taxes being imposed and then there are revenue shortfalls and the libs say–'what happened?" Hey you lib politicians–raising taxes doesn't work. Learn a lesson. Smart people do–libs don't. Stop the damn taxing.
NY is smokin….
Plus its pretty apparent liberals want to outlaw cigarettes but are too dishonest to flat out make them illegal. So they just make enough taxes and nuisance laws to block them.
Kin of like anti-abortionists who make laws making it practically impossible for a woman to get an abortion. They aren't flat out making abortion illegal, they are just making it so hard to get one they might as well be illegal.
These are called round-about laws. They make something illegal in a round-about way.
I used to buy mine directly from Israel for about $15/carton, now I just roll my own for about $9/carton.
Use the Zen papers, they are worth the extra cost.
ROFLOL… I haven't seen that name in print for years, and when I first read it, for a split second, I wondered to myself… Is "Plaxico Burress" some damn pharmaceutical company? LOL… yeah, I'm blond! ; )
.
Wait wait wait wait wait wait !!!!!
You mean to tell me people adjusted their behavior to avoid paying ectra in taxes ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
WHO COULD HAVE EVER KNOWN ?!?!?!?!
Morons. This is why the "projected new reveunue" from ANY tax is WAY over stated.
….no doubt the legislature already spent the 130M.
One of my vices is smoking.
I bought a $5 pack of smokes at the local Rite-Aide.
I made a comment about the price for a pack to the cashier.
She said "Just go to the Choctaw Reservation and you don't have to pay tax."
It hit me!
The girl operating the register at the Rite-Aide is smarter than the clowns in Washington.
Nicely stated SubVert!
"limited number of brain cells" reminds me of an old joke…. Why do dems have 1 more brain cell than a cow? so they have the sense to not crap on the carpet.
The supposedly-discredited Laffer Curve strikes again.
I'm a little surprised to hear this being pushed in very-red Alabama, especially under the "higher cigarette taxes save children's lives" rhetoric. Because children pay for their own cigarettes or something I guess. They might actually get away with it, though, much as they do with high liquor taxes, because most of their population (excepting the Mobile area) lives far from any state lines.
Some kids have and use their brain! Far more need to.
Yep, that does say it all now doesn't it? Heck, go to a military bases as well.
Rolling my own here in Ohio comes to about $6.78/carton.
The tanning tax was a racist tax don't you think? You might as well hang a sign on it that says whites only. I do not know any of my brothers or sisters who use those places.
On one hand they don't want you smoking the vile weed, tobacco, so the levy all kinds of taxes on the product. But on the other side of the coin they don't want you to quite smoking at all, they want the money. Maybe they should try the Walmart model of doing business. I bet they could double tax revenue if they did. Nope they want it both ways. As for the Indians I have problems with one group singled out for special privileges than another. But this is the world we live in so I don't have a problem with the said tribes making as much money as they can off the Stupidity of New York State Government or of the the Federal as well. Funny thing about taxes and americans, The British learned this to there sorrow. Tax to much and we look for other ways. Its an interesting observation about the character of Americans. And its not just tobacco, a good junk of online shopping is done to avoid taxation.
I go to the Onondaga res. here in Syracuse. $34.50 a carton. Senaca full flavor. Taste like usa gold. The indians don't sell name brand but sell cigarettes made at their own factoies located on indian land. Good for them and for the tobacco product buyer. Scr*w you NY !
Surprise again!
They didnt change their behavior, they changed their marketing.
Just don't bend over for the soap if your state representative is behind you, they don't want to wash your back, that's for sure. Soon as the last of my kids graduate school, I'm out of this state. So far I've told all 4 to leave NYS as soon as they can. Funny, how they rarely listened to me when they were teenagers and so far two have moved and the other two have made it clear they are heading out of state.
I subscribed to the theory long ago that liberalism is a mental disorder. So far the theory has proved to be accurate.
It was most likely given to us by the congressional black caucus. I have not seen a non-white in a tanning solon yet using the tanning beds
"STARVE THE BEAST"
Well said!
?
Ya know,…it does have a PharmaCo sound to it.
I guess they need even one more to not crap on cop cars.
These same TAX and Spenders HATE Tobacco cigs but love those funny smelling other kinds…Betcha they make sure if Obamacare makes Tobacco smokers stop, they will have an exemption for POT smokers, after all it is a HERB and good for what ails ya….they say.
It happened with the Bush and Reagan tax cuts since the CBO did a total loss of revenue not expecting new revenues. A couple of years ago the Wall Street Journal did an article where the CBO predicted that there would be more loss of revenues than what the tax bought in.
The moral it can't be predicted what a tax increase will do, but there are so many experts who think it can be done.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
Haven't other states done this and went through this. You think the states would've learned that lesson by now.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
Over the top taxes are usually shot down by the people long before the government ever would. Canada is a great example. Alcohol is taxed to the extremes, so most people make their own nearly for free. It is a growing trend in the USA as well. Experts put the untaxed alcohol consumption at 65% in Canada, and 28% in the USA. The USA is well behind, but it has been on a steady rise for the last 4 years whereas Canada has been stable for 10 years.
Cigarettes are addictive, and there are some VERY CRAFTY Americans who smoke. Those two facts will assure that cigarettes, like anything else addictive, will be available at reasonable prices one way or another. The liberals that know whats best for you will soon get them banned, but smokers will always smoke if they chose to…. its the American way!
Electronic cigarettes are under full assault by our government. They have a study that was done on one cartridge. The study says that carcinogens are present, so they need to be banned. They did not mention that the amount of the suspected carcinogens were at levels in the PPT (parts per trillion). The apple you may have eaten today has carcinogens in the PPM (parts per million). Electronic cigarettes cannot be sold as a product that helps you to quit smoking real cigarettes, but the fact is they have a 75% success rate. The nicotine gum has carcinogens in the PPM range, and a success rate of 4% if you use the best rates available. The patch has carcinogens that are 1000 times greater then an electron cigarette, the success rate is 8%, again using the best rates available by government studies. These facts go to show that liberals do not really care about the health of smokers or they would hand electronic cigarettes out at all health departments. Instead liberals twist facts, in the hopes that people do not quit smoking, and with that, continue to pay illegally imposed penalty taxes. Liberals also circulate
information amongst their ranks that show smokers will save money if they continue to smoke by not collecting social security because they will die before they can collect what they have paid in, so it becomes available to give to someone (illegals) who they can be sure will vote democrat.
Our government is out of control in may ways, and until it gets worse most people will adapt. Once the people have had enough our government will fall within weeks…. time to make plans people!
LOL, Are you blond too?8-D
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As long as the elected idiots in government at all levels continue to pass confiscatory taxes and crippling regulations on the public and business……..the public and business will look for and find ways to avoid them.
In my case I left high tax, highly reguated NJ for a low tax, less regulated, more welcoming, friendly state……and I brought my wealth and spending power with me.
The ONLY success dims have ever had is destroying the white,middle-class taxpaying burgoise base of America,and THAT had to done with thelp of seasoned bolshevists out of Russia since '91.
You gotta love it.
Another thing to watch out for will be when energy bills "necessarily skyrocket."
Once the goal of getting everyone to "conserve" (do without) is met, resulting in less money to the energy companies, they will of course be forced to raise rates even higher, in order to meet their obligations to their government overlords.
Lose-lose all around, but the socialists will be delighted.
Marxists never learn. They are all bad at math and economics.
There is one way to increase revenue through cigarette tax increases. NH did it by increasing their taxes per pack by a quarter right after MA increased theirs by a dollar. MA revenue dropped like a stone (and hurt lottery sales), NH made out well.
AT this point its near impossible to add more tax revenue, considering that all money made in America is taxed from the moment you earn it, to the first time you spend some, to the second time you spend some, heck just putting gas in your car on the way to the supermarket, you pay gas tax.
There isn't any way they can squeeze more juice out of that orange, but they certainly could do leaps and bounds in the way that they spend it.
John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, both multi millionaires, and they are politicians who are only supposed to earn a few hundred k per year, instead they engage in insider trading, and corrupt government spending, Nancy rides every where in government planes.
They could easily curb spending, cut the useless TSA, FDA, Homeland Security, let other countries fight their own wars. Yes we can change the spending dramatically, considering we have 75 trillion in debt, trillions in national debt, then more trillions in sort of secret debt like them spending all the social security money and owing themselves!
Its a joke when they try and raise more revenue through more taxation.
Someone once said a country never revolts on the way down, they only revolt on the way up. Probably based on the idea that as you go down you adapt and try to hang on to what you have. But on the way up you see hope and that makes you fight.
!
It's religion, not logic. The Book of Liberalism states that increased taxes = Utopia, so shall it be written, so shall it be done.
Ya know all those big shiny Indian Casinos? Well, they're built with this amazing material made possible by Big Government – it's called Broken Treaties. There's a never ending abundance of it because Lefties & RINOs don't care about silly things like sovereignty.
Reservations are socialist in structure and as a result, horrifically poor. The poverty on the Rez is akin to the third world, and that's what Democrats like; Historically oppressed 'quaint' cultures that depend on subsidies for their very existence. Casinos and tobacco provide a means to use capitalism to improve their lot – but lefties keep a tight grip on it because they can't let the Nations become too self-sufficient, thereby spoiling the scam. They are more than happy to take a big slice of the Casino-Ciggie pie when all is said and done.
Cut spending never enters the government mind.
These people must be the 1% who are avoiding paying tax. Right? I mean…right??? The millionaire tax will work the same way…bye, bye millionaires. You'd think these idiot politicians would take a lesson from New Jersey, who passed a millionaires' tax and, in response, many millionaires just moved out of the state. These LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC LEFT-WING HACKS ARE ALWAYS SO WRONG!
Good parenting! They will find sanity elsewhere. Maybe you can move to be near them and enjoy life with them instead of involuntarily supporting a bunch of Socialist crooks in NY. Good job.
There is talk out here in Calif. about another proposition to put on the ballot in Nov to raise the tax on a pack of smokes to another $1.00. I can get smokes down here on the corner store for about $4.50 a pack (Waves).We are far behind in NY as far as price is concerned but stupid liberals think it is going to solve all the states financial problems.Stupid is as stupid does.
When they outlaw cigarettes only outlaws will have cigarettes, smoke em if you got em.
Considering the government keeps finding new ways to scare people from smoking, they should be delighted that the cigarette tax revenue is lower. If they had half a brian cell, they'd be congratulating themselves on a job well done.
Unless of course, they didn't really want people to quit smoking.
And RATS have developed into pretty good foot shooters.
Imagine the cigarette black market the dopes opened up…
Why don't the DemocRATS ever learn that if you tax something you get less of it, that does include tax revenue. Tax cigs; fewer people smoke, those that continue to smoke will find a way to get around the tax, tax revenue will increase but always fall short of the pie-in-the-sky projections. Raise income taxes, people will work less, will work "under the table" or will stop working again, bringing in less that expected tax revenue.
Catch a clue dimocRATS, people don't like taxes especially when they know the revenue raised will be wasted by the politicians on illegal immigrant benefits, given to those who won't work, wasted on pork projects or just stolen. Lower taxes and smaller government are the answer!! The Tea Party is the way to go, low taxes, free market and smaller government will put us back on the road to prosperity.
Learn how to roll your own.
You said it. More problems caused by greedy politicians. The Dems just want more tax money to continue to use and abuse hard working people. The Dems won't be happy until we are totally oppressed.
Isn't is nice that when they raised the tax on cigs, it was to help us poor souls quit smoking for our health, and now! I find out that it was just for higher taxes for the political coffers, my god what a shock. If your going to try and screw me, just say it, we now what you are doing anyway. I find it funny that the politico's think we are stupid, and yet we "know" that they are. If you don't trust them….please throw them out in 2012.
It's been my observation that most folks don't begrudge Govt. a 'REASONABLE' tax on vices. But when it becomes economic rape they rebel. After all this is the USA. Founded on a Sales Tax (Tea) Revolt.
Don't give the idiots in government any ideas, they will find a way to screw that up too.
Antiboohooma – what is the URL of the site you used to use? I usually use the RYO machines located around here but since WI is trying to shut them down, I want to have a backup source.
I don't trust the government, so I'm not going to say. Just do a search for cheap or discount cigarettes. Most of them are made in Eastern Europe by the same companies, RJ Reynolds etc… but for the European market.
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