Vermont Set to Hike Cigarette Tax as New Hampshire CUTS It
by Capitol ConfidentialThis Friday, Vermont’s cigarette tax goes up by 38 cents to $2.62 a pack, a move that backers hope will bring in an additional $4 million a year in revenue.
But there might be some bad news in store for residents of the Green Mountain State hoping the hike would help boost state coffers. Just as Vermont’s tax is set to go up, its neighbor, Live-Free-Or-Die New Hampshire is cutting its cigarette tax by 10 cents a pack.
The dual moves could prove a boon for New Hampshire businesses, which already do a steady trade in selling goods taxed heavily by other states to residents of neighboring states who drive across the border to stock up. Now, Vermonters may have an added reason to do so, and New Hampshire grocery and convenience stores hope to clean up.
Via NH Journal:
The head of the New England Convenience Store Association said cigarette sales for the state’s 828 outlets make up 40 percent to 50 percent of all receipts.
But cigarette sales volume has dropped steadily as the Legislature and Gov. John Lynch have approved raising the tax four times in the past six years, said Donna O’Donoghue, executive director of the New England Convenience Store Association.
“Even a small reduction in the tax will help the state’s convenience stores increase sales and will benefit the state in this challenging economic time,” O’Donoghue said.
Supporters insist the tax cut will increase cigarette sales enough to generate even more revenue for the state.
[...]
Critics of the tax cut cite concerns that it will decrease state revenue and force the legislature to make cuts in other areas to compensate, while business groups counter that increased sales will actually create more revenue. Either way, the built into the tax cut is a provision to roll back the provision if revenues decrease over the next two years.
So, to recap, the people most familiar with the business of selling cigarettes think they’ll sell more, thus raising revenue, by virtue of this cut. Vermont is increasing its tax, increasing the prospect of increased New Hampshire sales to Vermonters anyway. And if the New Hampshire cigarette tax cut results in a loss of revenue, it gets repealed anyway.
Granite Staters look like they may have gotten this just right.
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95 Comments
Any tax other than a flat income tax is unconstitutional. The money people use to buy goods and services was already taxed through income tax, all other taxes are double taxation. Sin taxes are blatant gouging from our government. To take New Hampshire's philosophy of selling more by reducing a sales tax just think how much more goods in the United States would be sold if there were no sales taxes at all. Now that's how you create more manufacturing and create jobs.
apparently lawmakers have a hard time understanding this old adage:
"You get more of what you subsidize, and less of what you penalize."
Sin taxes simply mean people will either buy elsewhere to avoid the tax, or cease or decrease the so-called 'sin' behavior, i.e. smoking. There goes the tax revenue, either way.
Why is that so difficult to figure out?
When the Vermonter's go to the Wal mart in New Hampshire they'll just buy their cigarettes there.
Since when has our government been concerned with gouging, blatant or otherwise?
Wouldn't it be nice, for once, to find someone who actually gets it and has the backbone to fight for the average citizen?
cigarette tax goes up by 38 cents to $2.62 a pack, WOW $5 a pack here on west coast
In Ubama gang banger land, United States of Africa, they up the smoke taxes while pushing so he can sell weed legally with no taxes on it and cheap selling prices
At the same time his morons in EPA signed the mandate to raise ethanol in gas from 10 to 15 % so his pigfort buddies can get 6 billion in kickbacks, raising the costs and taxes on all other corn based products.
That would be a governmental utopia to what we have now.
Vermont should raise the cig tax so each pack is $5. bucks…
That, by their failed logic, will bring in much more revenue.. Right
Ann
Still not getting how these ECON 101 illiterates get elected to anything..
$2.62 is just the TAX! On a personal note, $5 a pack was enough to make me quit 5 years ago.
Illinois tried that at the Missouri border some 3-4 years ago using the State Gestapo.
Didn't work.
I'm not a smoker, but taxation tactics on any products like this, will spawn black-markets.
Damn right.
Interesting ubama pasted a law last year so that you cannot buy smokes via the internet which was cheaper and he made it illegal to ship smokes in any fashion but is OK that illegal aliens sell weed.
Salem police on Wednesday arrested a medical-marijuana woman patient and a man who sold marijuana the patient gave him.
Responding to a report of possible drug activity in an apartment at 3649 Hawthorne Ave N.E., detectives seized 6.23 ounces of pot, plus $6,970 in cash, and they took three young children who were staying at the residence into protective custody.
Arrested and charged with possession and delivery of a controlled substance was Janet Stone. An Oregon Medical Marijuana Program participant, police suspect she gave her legally obtained weed to Mexican Jose Ross, who sold it to others — not only a crime, but also a violation of the program's regulations.
Police also arrested Ross, charging him with possession and delivery of a controlled substance and with being a felon in possession of a firearm.
The children, who were released to the Department of Human Services, were girls aged 8 and 1, and a 6-year-old boy.
This is a perfect example to show a liberal how a decrease in taxes can increase revenue.
Damn, I'm glad I live in NH.
The villainy of the matter is that a government is taking profit from the addiction of citizens to a substance that ought not be sold, at any price. Immorality is as easily justified as government tyranny and no one seems to object. Cigarettes are as useful to a human life as a Pelosi congress of eunuchs and dullards. Just prohibit the sale of tobacco and move on!
I foresee a cigarette running industry getting here, The ATF might get involved looking for straw buyers of smokes in NH intended for people of VT. They'll probably OK sales of cases of the weed in order to catch the kingpins. And then, it'll blowup in their face when someone in VT gets cancer from a cigarette bought in NH.
Operation Smoke'em Out.
Ohio cops also tried it with people buying liquor in Indiana. There were cases where Ohio cops would stake out parking lots across the street from liquor stores, and follow cars leaving the store's lot, if they had Ohio plates. As soon as they crossed back into Ohio…bam, charges of tax dodging and bootlegging were levied. It came to a stop when Indiana sheriffs threatened to arrest and jail Ohio police found doing these shenanigans in Indiana.
The only problem is they won't make cigarettes illegal 'cause they like the income.
See also state-line "weigh" stations. Often wondered if someone wasn't looking ahead on that one.
This is yet another example of why a small and very limited federal government is best. When states compete with each other for residents and businesses and commerce, they will be less inclined to indulge in BS like this. Instead, we have this:
http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article41286.ece
The homogenizing effect of big government dulls the vibrancy of the nation.
You mean…..
Tobacco?
No, it's not. I buy bulk tobacco, and roll my own. Even after Obama doubled the price of loose tobacco, it's still cheaper than cigs.
Cool, I see economic opportunity for enterprising individuals here.
Sounds like the guy selling the weed got arrested. Where are you getting the idea that it's OK from?
Ah, yes! The People's Progressive Socialist Democratic Republic of Vermontistan: It's West Virginia with trust funds. All you need to know about its people is that they elected Howie "YEEAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!" Dean as their governor… five times.
good. it's a filty, disgusting and expensive habit. Take it from a 23yr smoker.
"All you need to know about its people is that they elected Howie "YEEAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!" Dean as their governor… five times."
You just summed that up quite succinctly.
Agreed. Switched to electric cigs and cutting down right now. Sucks, but it's a helluva lot better than gum and patches.
Should be prohibit the sale of everything that's bad for us?
The topic is tobacco. Indulging liberals is bad for us. Both are related to cancer. Good luck finding other than a liberal in VT, home of Howard Goddam Dean.
I quite cold turkey over 3 years ago now. Wife still smokes and it doesn't bother me one bit.
Each time I had a craving I would close my eyes and ride it out. I made sure I felt every single bit of that craving as I would ride it like a wave until its conclusion. Each time I had any craving I would also repeat, "two to three HUNDRED dollars a month" over and over again. Something else I thought about was that the government was NOT getting any more of my money in cigarette taxes!
In 5 days I was done with cigarettes forever. The very rare times when I start to have even the inkling of a craving I remember what those first few cravings were like. I tell myself that even just ONE cigarette and I will have to go through those cravings all over again. That is more than enough to stop me cold!
Guess what, you think you don't have the willpower to quite? I know for a fact that you do. How do I know? Are you alive? Are you still here? then you have the will to quite. You have already been through hell at least once by the time you reach 18. You made it this far didn't you?
Government has no concern for health and well being. They are just after the money… period.
They will never prohibit tobacco…. it's too big a revenue source and easy to tap into and increase when in tough times.
If they are willing to invoke their authority by taxation, instead of regulation, they are villainous proponents and advocates for a horrible substance. No one ever felt better as a result of nicotine addiction. The addiction is in tobacco's ability to allay the discomfort of cessation. Smokers don't smoke to feel better, they smoke to avoid feeling worse as the effects dissipate.
Technically it is a State's Rights issue and Vermont is free to set a tobacco tax according to the wish of their populace, even if I disagree with it.
I sure liked the part of your original comment about the government taxing the addicted. I never thought of it that way but that is essentially true. But I think its a bad idea to start banning things that have been part of the culture for a long time. We tried prohibition and that didn't work out too good.
Like someone said — smoking is heather than fascism.
Since I'm blond I'm not sure about the validity of my query, but isn't this what the "commerce clause" that
has been so utterly misused was all about?
The costs to treat smoking are astronomical. People wonder why their health care costs and health care premiums increase every year. It's simply the cause of [caused by costs for treating] chronic diseases–often times caused or exacerbated by smoking.
It cost $157.4 billion per year for health care costs. The annual amount is about $3,391 per person. Each pack leads to medical costs. Each pack reduces productivity, promotes inflation.
The "Law of Unintended Consequences" strikes again…….
they should have the right to smoke if they want – they should be the ones having to pay their health care costs though if they do…not the government! as long as they aren't blowing their smoke on you…leave them alone. they'll either fork out the $$ for healthcare or die…educate – don't mandate!
If they want to smoke, then make them pay the REAL cost!!
Check out the link, if you want an idea how much smokers cost YOU!!
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/11/tob...
they may or may not prohibit tobacco – but they sure are making it tough to find a place to smoke the cigs! between not being able to smoke anywhere and the high prices….they are forcing people to quit. and cps is threatening to take your kids if you smoke around them…so i guess the government should tell me how to live my life, how to raise my kids, where i can work (only for the unions these days), what i can or cannot eat – so where does it end? this is becoming the brave new world…hope you all are perfect enough to live in it.
"…….Vermont Set to Hike Cigarette Tax as New Hampshire CUTS It…"
OH BROTHERRRR,…..!!!!!!!!
Another BG earth shattering article,……
I can't take all this two fisted reporting.
Easy there Big Feller.
It is the eve of a major holiday weekend.
Everyone is focused on other endeavors.
Bear in mind, Weinergate broke on the Saturday of memorial Day weekend……………
Hello Corn.
Tomorrow is the first day of July.
Would you like to bet what the topic is for the Open Thread……………..?
Even if New Hampshire didn't cut it's tax, the tax revenue Vermont hopes to see will be far less than what they are projecting, Every state that has raised taxes and projected huge windfalls of cash have been shocked to see that those revenues just aren't there.
Why? Because the projections always assume smokers won't quit and will continue to smoke as much, if not more, than before the tax increase. That flawed calculation has caused many problems with states spending the tax windfall before it's collected and ending up in even worse shape than before the tax increase.
Believe me nothing written by and enforced by bureaucrats is unintended.
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
George Washington
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." Ronald Reagan
The Progressive's way of thinking.
TAX MAPLE SYRUP!!!!
What is it, 100 miles at most from any where in Vermont to the NH state line?
ROTFLMAO at Vermont.
The Master Settlement Agreement (MSA) of 1998 was a legal settlement between the Attorneys General of 46 U.S. states and the four largest American tobacco companies to settle lawsuits brought by the states to recover billions of dollars in costs associated with treating smoking-related illnesses. Four states – Florida, Minnesota, Mississippi, and Texas – settled their tobacco cases separately from the MSA states. The MSA requires the tobacco industry to make payments to the states totaling approximately $246 billion through the year 2025. The MSA also created an industry-funded $1.45 billion national public education fund for tobacco control, now known as the American Legacy Foundation. The central purpose of the MSA was to reduce smoking, and particularly youth smoking in the United States, however realtively little of the money paid out to the states has actually been delegated to this cause. The Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids in Washington, D.C. (who issues regular reports on state spending of settlement funds) finds that most states have fallen far short of fulfilling funding guidelines issued by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention designating adequate amounts necessary to fund effective programs to reduce smoking.
they recovered their money from the tobacco industries – do you believe everything you read that the government publishes?
Five years after all current smokers who receive Medicaid benefits quit smoking, program expenditures would be an estimated $9.7 billion lower, according to a new report by researchers at RTI International. Looks to me like they made a hefty profit from the tobacco companies.
"Looks to me like they made a hefty profit from the tobacco companies"
How is saving 9.7 billion dollars in tax payer money a hefty profit?
They assume that rates of economic activity will stay the same regardless of their actions. In other words, that Vermonters will continue to purchase cigarettes in Vermont, because that's what they've always done. It's a fairly typical blunder made by people who don't bother to think about the consequences of political actions they take. Even if NH had similar cigarette taxes, higher taxes would still probably create a strong incentive to quit smoking, particularly among the lower classes, which means that VT's revenues still wouldn't be as high as they want.
Really, it's just smokers that are causing my premiums to rise? How about we ban barbecued ribs too since they're conducive to diabetes and heart disease?
People getting old is really expensive. Just think of the money we could save with mandatory euthanasia. What age would you suggest we draw the line? 80? 75? How about 65? The government could do away with all of those pesky Social Security checks. I suggest the world use Canada as the test bed. How old did you say you are? : )
Make it $20. As soon as they raise the minimum wage to $1,000 an hour, we'll all be rich!
Or just buy smokes off the Indian reservations. No tax at all.
What else would you expect from a state that has a howard dean in it! Go New Hampshire, show them how STUPID they are!
Gee!! And I thought $1.00 a pack was too high in 1982 so I quit.
I quit in 82 after I noticed my breathing was getting labored after a mild workout now my lungs have cleared and the Doc. says my lungs are fine.
Yeh!! Set up a tobacco stand right on the border and save your customers some gas money.
They do already.
And if Vermont brings the tax up again later then New Hampshire can lower theirs again.
I can hear a great big sucking sound…
Ah…. Billy I knew that… I should have expounded on my thought…. Tax it at the same RATE THEY DO SMOKES!!!
Add $2.62 to each bottle of Syrup and see how happy the IHOP, Waffle House and Denny's patrons become. Plus using Michelle Obama's thinking it will SAVE THE FAT AMERICAN NATION by reducing the use of said HIGH CALORIE SYRUP… Two birds with one stone!!!!
Errr, the (US) Constitution only applies to the Federal government. The states are free to do as they please within their own borders.
Err, the states are free to make laws as long as they don't violate constitutionality. What do you think the Civil War was all about? 600,000+ American's died over some states wanting to continue unconstitutional practices.
Excuse me?The Civil War was fought because eleven states attempted to secede from the Union. Moreover, until the post-Civil War 14th Amentment was passed, not one jot nor tittle of the US Constitution applied to the states; for example, Massachusetts had an Established (Congregationalist) Church until 1838.Where it comes to taxation, State governments can impose any tax they please, and the Feds have no voice in the matter.
Sorry I'll type louder this time (kidding)
Are you saying that if some states want to bring slavery back then that's fine and dandy? And those states tried to succeed because the federal government wouldn't let them make their own laws that violated some peoples rights granted under the constitution i.e. the right to be free. The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the United States. Unjust taxation by the individual states could be argued as a form of the state enslaving the citizens. If your state passed a law in which your income was taxed 100% and forced you to keep working I think you'd hope the federal government would step in to enforce your constitutional right to be free.
You're correct but even before the middle of the 20th Century the Federal Government has managed to seize > 25% of the land mass for "National" parks and hamstring the states by matching grants and enmeshing the states in the all sorts of regulatory functions to service of disbursement of Federal Monies and programs. It is a corrupt and corrupting web of deceit and appetites.
They already do it for everything else including Alcohol. Most bordertowns in NH claim that 60% of their clientele are Vermonters.
"Granite Staters look like they may have gotten this just right."
They've had it right for years and New Hampshire liquor, grocery and convenience stores will continue to "clean up" as they are surrounded by other states with stupid and hypocritical politicians. "Stupid and hypocritical"? ………… the following proves my point—-
"A Westport (Massachusetts) lawmaker who voted to hike the state sales and alcohol taxes was spotted brazenly piling booze in his car – adorned with his State House license plate – in the parking lot of a tax-free New Hampshire liquor store, the Herald has learned." http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9fd_1252278169&...
"A hypocrite is the kind of politician who would cut down a redwood tree, then mount the stump and make a speech for conservation." — Adlai E. Stevenson
One buck a pack was enough for me not to even start.
I believe that's the point.
Competition prevails.
I stopped reading after "You are correct" …… And you are correct also that the federal government is probably the biggest violator of the constitution, in many ways. Also the constitution has been amended so many times it is hard to know exactly what exactly is considered constitutional, which is why you and I disagree slightly here and why there are so many attorney across America that make a living on arguments such as this, and why so many states are now suing the federal government .
You don't actually want to start this type of comparisons because the end result will be less liberty and more repression of minorities and their expensive habits. The consumption of Alcohol and Homosexual behavior are two examples of the extreme cost to society. AIDS (a behavioral sourced venereal disease) cost between 16 and 39 billion annually and the cost in health care for terminal patient is much higher in the US on a per patient basis than lung cancer or COPD. .
Alcohol is the all out champion for disparate social impact that is so large that it is incalculable.
Och, God help the heathen!!!Dear child, have you *ever* read a history book? In case you haven't, let me remind you that slavery was expressly permitted under the Constitution of 1787, and was practiced wholly legally in the Republic's first decades, including in many Northern states such as New York, Connecticut and Delaware. The states which seceded in 1861 were not doing anything illegal, save in attempting to secede.Slavery was banned nationwide by the 13th Amendment, which was ratified after the Civil War. Did you go to the same school as Whoopi Goldberg? The parallel 14th Amendment extended most of the Bill of Rights to cover state governments for the first time. However, that's all it does. The states have the absolute right to fund themselves through whatever taxes they like, so long as they don't attempt to impose import duties on goods from other states.
I suspect that, for a little "walking around" money, said state lawmaker would overlook a little "under the table" trading by some of his in-state grocers. See how that works?
You've should have read the whole post… The Federal Government discovered the right to intervene in State governance from the beginning of the Republic. Washington suppressed the the "Whiskey" rebellion with Federal Troops and Militia after it learned the lesson of inactivity from the Shays Rebellion. under the Article of Confederation. It was a rebellion over Federal Excise Taxes and the Federals have always had the right to intervene in State law based on the Commerce Clause. The implementation of this misreading accelerated under Wilson, Hoover and the Roosevelts when the early 20th seduction of the super competent technocratic state was in vogue.
The real topic is your massive bigotry and stupidity.
It ends where tyranny always ends. In pools of blood.
Of course you don't. That's kind of the point…isn't it?
The so called "interstate commerce clause" was intended to give the federal government authority to keep individual states from falling into trade wars. Applying interstate tariffs, embargoes, blockades, not unlike the pipeline issue between Russia, Belarus, and Europe. It was not intended to interfere with free market forces or natural competition between states and products. It was one small statement in a larger document that has become the cynical and dishonest basis for, these days, 100% of anything that has been legislated lately.
The power to make "trade regular between the states" does not mean the power to interfere with that trade in any way, but that they may step in when the states themselves disrupt that trade between the peoples of the states in question. It's a pretty specific instruction. Indeed, it is utterly misused. Kinda like saying you have authority to make sure all the neighborhood lemonade stands are painted green, and then you use that authority to get your mom to buy a cat. I know, the analogy makes no sense, but it's not my fault. The subject of the analogy makes no sense either.
I mean, you have the authority to make sure that Vermont does not slap a tariff from products only coming from NH, then use that authority to make everyone in the country buy a certain health care plan. Dude? Cats and lemonade stands. It makes no sense whatsoever, but it is completely analogous.
How damn funny CL, your reply to me asking if I wanted to predict what the topic of the O T would
be today finally appeared on the page… , I'm shocked! ….. and psychic LOL, because I predict the
Friday O T will be about the Battle of Gettysburg… heh, heh… Do I win a prize?;-D
Happy Trails, CL!
.
I hope the Gov. of NH sends a thank you note to the Gov. of VT.
We've been sending them mto MA for decades now. I live in a city that borders MA, and we have a BOOMING economy, thanks to MA taxes.
There has NEVER been real maple syrup in IHOP, Denny's or any other restaurant chain, EVER.
Conditions are warming up for boot-leg cigarettes. Unless the libs destroy the tobacco farmers.
In MN the Natives collect the State tax. I think it was a deal worked out to avoid State run casinos – which eventually will come to pass anyway.
Well good for you, you're saving lots and lots of money. I've smoked, and continue to do so, since 1962. Here in MN at least part of the massive cigarette taxes goes to save the sick children (Statewide Health Improvement Program – SHIP). Before the tax increase (thank you Tim Pawlenty) and SHIP we had dead kids stacking up like cord wood on the streets. I keep smoking, it's for the children.
While we are betting, tonight is late evening, of 1 July.
Would you care to bet that on 3 July (Sunday) the Open Thread topic, will be derogatory pertaining to General Lee?
Heh, heh… something tells me you may have kept up with these matters enough to have
more than just a hunch… thus I reckon I'll decline to take you up on that bet. I wonder how
many total pieces of that nature, have appeared on BG in the last year. Funny, at least
enough to break me from suckin' eggs. Gen Lee's record can stand on it's on…
Have a happy Independence day, CL
; )
How many pieces?
Too many.
You too old friend, have a reflective Independence Day.
We have sure seen a lot here, haven't we?
Isn't it funny? The liberals are always the ones bashing Christians and conservatives for their "outdated" morals…and yet it's always those same liberals wanting to slap a "sin tax" on everything! Once again we see that every facet of their lives reflects the total rotten BS that lies at the core of their being.
No, slavery was not expressly permitted in the Constitution. Making an allusion to slavery is not the same thing as "expressly permitted."
At the same time his morons in EPA signed the mandate to raise ethanol in gas from 10 to 15 % so his pigfort buddies can get 6 billion in kickbacks, raising the costs and taxes on all other corn based products .http://www.watchesn.com/products/big_TAG_Heuer_1.html
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