Scientists: EPA ‘Distorting’ Biofuels Reality
by Capitol ConfidentialThe Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is facing renewed criticism this week with scientists charging that the government arm inaccurately labeled ethanol a “renewable fuel” last February.
According to reports, at the same time that it revised its renewable fuel standards, the EPA also re-ran numbers relating to corn-based ethanol’s lifecycle emissions, and determined that ethanol was responsible for substantially less greenhouse-gas emissions than gasoline, thus allowing it to be redesignated as “renewable.” But, scientists argue, the underlying data remained the same, and demonstrated that ethanol was not a “green” energy source. Nonetheless, they charge, the EPA presented the data in a way that allowed for ethanol to be categorized in a different manner. That, critics say, raises questions about the agency’s independence and pursuit of its mission, as opposed to execution of a political agenda.
According to Jeremy Martin, a senior analyst with the Union of Concerned Scientists’ Clean Vehicles Program, EPA’s decision to focus on anticipated biofuel emissions as of 2022 “distorts the picture of today’s biofuels.” By 2022, the theory goes, corn crop yields will have increased and biorefining technology will be more efficient and green than it is today. But for now, according to Joe Fargione, a scientist with the Nature Conservancy, “in the near term, natural-gas-powered, dry-milled corn ethanol production results in an increase of greenhouse gas emissions of 12 to 33 percent compared to gasoline.” Worse yet, EPA’s analysis recognizes this. However, ethanol has been redesignated, despite such indicators that it does not meet the renewable fuels criteria.
That, critics charge, is indicative of EPA junking sound science in favor of a political agenda.
As Capitol Confidential has previously reported, President Obama has a history of strongly supporting ethanol (much of which is produced in his home state of Illinois). Furthermore, top administration officials such as Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack have been aggressively pursuing pro-biofuels policies such as mandating more flex-fuel vehicle production, and increasing U.S. Navy reliance on biofuels.
EPA, meanwhile, has been under sustained pressure from pro-ethanol groups such as Growth Energy to approve an increase in the fuel blend ceiling from 10 percent ethanol to 15 percent ethanol—a move that observers say would constitute a massive giveaway to the ethanol industry that could prove helpful in shoring up support for the President and endangered Democrats in ethanol-producing “swing” areas, such as some Midwestern districts and states.
Indeed, according to Martin, the issue may be less the EPA junking science, but rather it executing a pre-ordained political agenda, enshrined in existing legislation. “Clearly, there was support for continuing the conventional biofuel program: that’s the instruction the EPA got,” he says. “So I wouldn’t call that a problem with their analysis. They were just doing what they were ordered to do by law.”
Either way, however, observers say scrutiny of the EPA as it moves closer to reaching a decision on issues such as raising the fuel blend ceiling will doubtless increase. As one ethanol opponent told Capitol Confidential “in view of this most recent criticism, if the EPA does it, it will undercut their green bona fides, but worse, indicate the politicization of an agency intended to implement sound environmental policy, not curry favor with political benefactors.”
A decision on the fuel blend ceiling is expected during the summer.
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119 Comments
So called "Biofuels" are a direct attack on food production, food prices or going through the ruff. This is a very worrisome thing and it must be stopped.
We could be making fuel from WATER! But there is no lobbyist on K street for that! Oil, it's bad to the last drop! Also, it takes 1.6 gallons of fuel to make one gallon of biofuel…..
The EPA is Dishonest? Say It is not so!!!
We should never use food for fuel, plain and simple. This is an Progressive idea for sure. Corn is a food used around the world to feed, thousands if not millions. This is another Progressive idea to hurt all of US. Especially, the people who need it most of all. I say reject all attempts to use any food as a fuel period.
God Bless America
If the administration really had any interest in reducing greenhouse gasses and reducing our dependence on foreign oil, they would hire Boone Pickens as a consultant. Ethanol competes with the food supply, drives up the costs of production of fuel and food and corrodes pipes, meaning higher infrastructure costs.
From the Desk of:
Steve Elliott, Grassfire Nation
4/22/2010
On Monday, Sens. Kerry (D-MA) and Graham (R-SC) will unveil
their broad climate and energy tax to the American people.
I say tax, because that is precisely what it is – a huge
regressive tax that will impact every American and simply
stated, devastate the poor and those on fixed incomes…
Allow me to explain.
President Obama's plan is to force power companies,
refineries and factories and manufacturing plants to
reduce their carbon emissions. He plans to accomplish
hat feat through heavy taxation – meaning you and I will
pay the tax at the pump, on our heating/cooling and
electricity bills.
Those in the lowest and fixed income brackets spend a
greater percentage of their income on gas for cars and
utilities and stand to be hit the hardest by this latest
tax scheme.
God Bless Ameruca
They wouldn’t politicize the EPA…would they?
[...] Read More >> Big Government [...]
Day by day, more and more Americans are coming to realize that our Government has become an extortion racket.
They can no longer be trusted.
They can no longer be respected.
NO TRUST, NO RESPECT!!!
Corn is terribly inefficient as a fuel. It is a one-to-one fuel. You have to burn one unit of energy to harvest enough corn to produce one unit of fuel energy. Sugarcane, that is used in Brazil produces 11 units of energy for every 1 unit harvested. The only reason corn is so popular to the politicians here is the Iowa caucus and because certain members of Congress can send money back home to farmers. I cant wait until Russia is drilling for oil in the Gulf of Mexico. Who do think would be a better enviromental steward of the Gulf, the US or Russia?
We need to bring back a old index we use to use under
"Jimmy Carter", The misery index, because all of these polices will lead US too misery.
God Bless America
Global warming is a fraud and crime against humanity because people will suffer an die as a result of the frauds that are being generated by the admitted liars. They all need to be locked up and put in jail as a lesson to others and to history. This is just like the Nazi Aryan fake race science, this time in the name of a new fascism.
We need to do the all of the above approach to become energy independent, but turning off the lights is not an option. CO2 is near an all time low for the past 300 million years and is a normal component of the atmosphere.
.
Right On.
God Bless America
Well you should not rely on the EPA for science. They are never the non-political source of scientific information. I think corn ethanol is good for the environment and the country.
http://www.PoliticalCentrist.com News and views for independent voters
Sure, that's the ticket! Let's burn food that people need to eat to run our cars. Brilliant!
When Barry Hussein Obama was (s)elected, Common Sense put on his best suit, packed his bags, put on his hat and took the next train of of Washigton D.C.
We have to get 'em back to D.C. – soon. Wasting feed corn and energy to "make" energy…poppycock.
Is Al "Fatass" Gore involved in this craziness? Who's getting RICH? Follow the money, ALWAYS follow the $$$$$.
It's about time to see people stand up to the totalitarians in the EPA, FDA, Dept. of Education, etc. These dogmatic liberals have had a free ride of coming up with years of unchallenged "facts" to push their agendas. When they had no teeth, we just brushed it off as the "crazies are at it again", but thanks to the lunatic voters who elected this regime, real power to destroy our country is being wielded.
Here is a site to help you when it is time too go to the poles.
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/powerRanking/
God Bless America
The EPA has become a criminal organization here in CA, an organization which should be abolished before they do anymore damage. The reality is they were established to manipulate data giving the criminal democrats a foundation to pass economically crippling "green" legislation.
A story covered a few months back here in L.A by local talk show hosts John&Ken is beginning to break statewide. A leftwing loser named Mr. Tran lied about his degree and training from a particular university and this clown scribbled some scientifically illiterate rubbish about emissions. The EPA in CA went on to pass draconian legislation [circumventing the legislature if I'm not mistaken; I guess they have dictatorial powers since we no longer have a Constitution] based on these scribblings which put people out of work and companies out of business. And apparently some at the EPA knew this was fraud all along but it furthered their agenda. There should be criminal investigations.
The fact that Mr. Tran was a fraud seemed of little concern, liberals just use the excuse of "fake but accurate." But now M. Tran's scribblings have been examined and turns out this fraud exaggerated the numbers by 100%; he doubled them. Similar to what's going on with anthropogenic global warming. Mr. Tran and Algore should be in prison; in a sane country they would be.
I hate corn! If the regressives weren't busy implementing their 100 year old agenda, ensuring de-evolution (if you will) we could be looking at new modes of transportation along with better energy sources. I've been anxiously awaiting the day I can drop a new Flux Capacitor into my DeLorean. The Hussein regime has set us back 20 years, at least, so I'm giving up on that dream.
Virtually everything the EPA has done has been junk science. Alar, acid rain, the DDT ban, the asbestos bans, the 2nd-hand smoke lies, the chlorofluorocarbon ban, the latest co2 plans, and now the revelations about ethanol. Every single one of these issues has been proven to be based on nothing resembling genuine science. In the case of DDT, the EPA's ban is DIRECTLY responsible for the deaths (from malaria) of over 50 million human beings, not to mention the much larger number who have to live with the recurrent misery of their malarial infection.
The most dangerous thing to the health of our citizens and to life on this earth is the EPA. It is the EPA which we desperately need to ban.
My crystal ball says Russia causes catastrophic damage to US as a result of their efforts.
The only reason to use food as fuel is for someone to make money, who would not in a real competitive culture be doing anything other than sweeping up manure from dray horses.
It is beyond reason that anyone would ever be talking or writing about such an absurdity in America.
I found a nice service station near where I live that sells pure gasoline and my mileage increased 5% and at a slightly lower price. In addition I do not have to be concerned with the increased scouring effect of ethanol absorbed water on my cylinder walls and the effect of water throughout my fuel system.
The EPA should be shelved and its petty government workers should find positions holding real jobs in the private sector where they might actually be producing something of value.
Actually, "ruin our cars" would be just as valid
happy earthday founder still in prison left wing radical communist pig !http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Einhorn
I have a better veggie instead of corn. Beets, who craves this veggie?
God Bless America
Not to mention, the EPA labeled CO2 as a leathal gas even though it is just as natural as Oxygen or Nitrogren. After doing some research myself, I found that man-made CO2 at most is only a mere fractin of all CO2 produced, and has little to no impact at all. On top of that, global warming/climate change isnt even possible by a single element of nature, just doesnt make sense.
Although, I will say, we do need to lock up people like Al Gore and his minions for life for a massive global fraud. What is worse, is that those who support global warming dont give a damn about the earth, just about the money and power they will gain out of it.
Oh, I celebrated Earth Day today by driving my truck around town and eating fast food.
Capt………please don't misunderstand, I have no argument about the inefficiency of grain produced
ethanol as a fuel, although the industry was built up in these last few years with the goal of convert-
ing to ethanol produced from cellulose (plant matter). Corn stover is abundant as a bi-product of
grain production & is practically free. Farmers would prefer to have about half to two thirds of this
bi-product removed from their fields after the grain is harvested in the fall. I'm sure this method of
production is still not on par with sugarcane ethanol. Since most of agriculture has gone to no-till
practices we are concerned about the compaction of our soils by heavy equipment used to wind-row
& bale the corn stalks. These are problems of innovation that will be solved within a few years.
To your point of "Congress can send money back home to farmers", I must respond, Dec 2010 corn
on the CBOT closed today @ $3.8775. That is about fifty cents below cost of production. However
the big multi-national grain co's, Cargill, ADM, & ConAgra have the lobbying power to have these
ethanol subsidies extended. They are perfectly happy using the American farmer as a scape-goat to
be demonized, while they reap the profits.
During the last run-up in oil prices the Gvt, in an attempt to pressure the Mid-East & other oil producing countries, offered low interest loans & very lucrative tax breaks for venture capital entities to build ethanol production plants. A few were completed, but many were still in mid- construction when oil prices began
to ease off. This resulted in several bankrupt co's with almost new ethanol production facilities, some
even left incomplete. Cargill & ADM both bought several facilities for pennies on the dollar & began pro-
ducing ethanol themselves. The original investors were happy to take advantage or the tax credits, & if
still vested when the co was liquidated might have been able to take a tax-loss to carry forward. The multi national grain co's were able to acquire the facilities at bargain basement deals, they made out like ban-
dits.
By going this route they have cut out their own mark-up, thus the production costs of corn ethanol should
drop somewhere in the neighborhood of 15/20% (semi-educated guess). But we all know it won't.
The SCARY truth is that there is not enough biomass on the whole planet, if harvested all at the same time to produce biofuels, to power America's cars for one year. That is EVERY bit of organic material I am talking about… It is impossible that enough biomass can be harvested without destroying the ecosystem to make a small dent in oil usage. However… nuclear reactors generating electricity for electrlysis of H2O into H2 for hydrogen fuel cells is not only abundant but it is perfectly clean.
Actually Morry, the chlorofluorocarbon ban has worked. Sheep in Patagonia are no longer developing cataracts and the ozone holes are beginning to repair (it takes decades for the damage to reverse because the pollutants take so long to migrate to that altitude.)
But that's not to say the EPA isn't rife with do-gooders working hard to pad their annual evaluations with junk science for raises and promotion. It's a culture in which real scientists find themselves co-opted into the company line.
And you're right about DDT. Banning it cost millions of lives. A good many, if not all, the malaria-infested nations have gone back to using it. Peregrin Falcon and other bird species, however, will suffer as their eggs become too thin and fracture.
Carol Browner, former Clinton administration EPA head and current "Obama White House climate czar, instructed auto industry execs "to put nothing in writing, ever" regarding secret negotiations she orchestrated regarding a deal to increase federal Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards. Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-WI, is demanding a congressional investigation of Browner's conduct in the CAFE talks, saying in a letter to Rep. Henry Waxman, D-CA, that Browner "intended to leave little or no documentation of the deliberations that lead to stringent new CAFE standards."
Browner is a crook. Leave no document trail.
The corn shortage is causing food riots….. no MSM coverage?
http://www.flex-news-food.com/pages/20351/Food/Gl...
Hate big oil. Hate big corn. Which is it going to be? This is one of the worst articles I’ve read on BG yet. I don’t like the EPA any more than anyone else but to keep kicking a viable option like biofuels doesn’t make sense. There are more efficient processes and feed stocks coming but it won’t happen overnight. You can complain or you can do something. It’s clear the majority of commenters here want to complain. Educate yourself. How does Brazil do it? In the mean time I’m going to continue to burn 40-50% E85 in my unmodified 1991 Buick Park Ave.
The problems of the previous century had always been solved in the new century and in turn,….
creating new problems for the next century,………
and throughout this humanistic evolutionary process,…. man's existence has always been improving.
Why do we want to change this very successful process.
sorry joe, there's plenty of food, just not enough charitable folks to buy it & send it to the 3rd world.
In my average size farm operation I produce about 1/2M bushels of corn a year. If corn & wheat
prices were more lucrative I could double that. At current prices I can't afford to fertilize for max-
imum yield. If corn & wheat prices continue at these levels I will probably revert to raising cotton,
as will many others, I am sure. Like any other business man, we answer to our bankers.
Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, both multi-national grain exporters who stand to reap billions,
& possibly trillions from this mess, while leaving the American farmer as the fall-guy.
he was the unicorn killer , stuffed his xgirlfreind in a trunk in his closet dead of course and was a radical from the 60s/70s arlen specter was his lawyer who got his bail down to 40.000 of course he skipped the country ,but now is in prison with a life sentence , he is the founder of earthday 40 years ago , lets you know that the green movement is really RED !
In Brazil they use sugar, which has a huge net energy increase because it's a one step fermenting process. Corn takes an extra step to get from a starch to a sugar before fermenting. Plus corn takes a ton of fertilizer while sugar does not, and fertilizer takes a lot of natural gas to make.
They should stop wasting corn and get rid of the $1/gallon tariff on imported ethanol. It would save taxpayers money, save consumers money, and lower the cost of food.
Hey EPA Obamabots. Bend over. I have located the perfect place to shove the cobs.
It takes a lot of electricity to split the water molecule.
Funny guy eh?
I read the article STL, I understood it to say there 'might' be food riots in Egypt & 'other' 3rd world
nations in 2010 if………….. There is no shortage of corn in the world, just a shortage of money.
The US gives Egypt a pretty good chunk of change every year, to buy their loyalty, you reckon they
could turn around & use it to feed their people? No Mubarik is using it to live like a king, while
his people barely subsist. Dec corn closed on the CBOT today @$3.8775/ bu, approximately half
of what it was priced in 2008. If there was a world shortage of corn the price would be at least
$5.00/bu. Large charities who are normally able to buy a cargo vessel load of corn to ship to a
3rd world nation have seen their donations wither for the last few years. Farmer organizations
pool together & give what we can, but we can't afford to give away enough to feed all the hungry
in the world.
However, lots of production in Brazil was switched back to making sugar last summer when the world sugar market surged to high levels.
Additionally, sugarcane is uneconomical to grow in the U.S. without price supports due the much shorter growing season than in warmer climates where two cuttings per year can be obtained.
Central America rapidly expanded ethanol production for shipments to the U.S. several years ago, before all those dry mill ethanol plants were built. Cargill imported shiploads to fill the void mandated by our government.
that all changed last summer when the world sugar market skyrocketed. A lot of production change from ethanol to sugar.
Biofuels are not that viable PERIOD. Union of Concerned Scientists is a sham and no big collection of scientists.
Brazil got into more sugar and less ethanol last summer when the world sugar prices skyrocketed.
I was set to be the site manager for construction and plant manager after it was built of one of those dry milling ethanol plants in Mississippi, but Haley Barbour did the right thing and vetoed the state ethanol subsidy budget after the legislation to subsidize had passed before he entered office.
There are no ethanol plants where there is not a state subsidy of at least 20 cents per gallon along with the Federalie subsidy.
And forget about that celluse based ethanol, one company constantly goes belly up over and over and reincarnating under a different name which has been into this for at least 10 years now.
What is wrong with oil, most of what is produced domestically is not by "Big Oil" but instead by independents. So many people think of only "Big Oil" when the gas up their vehicles and they are quite ignorant of the facts.
Actually sugar beet production has fallen dramatically in traditional production areas of the US due
to a soil borne micro-organism that has cut beet yields. Notoriously high cost of production, plus
tariffs & sugar trade wars have brought about the closure of many sugar processing facilities in the
US. Many small farms in my area, who had grown beets for 30 years had to give up that crop when
Holly Sugar closed their local plant about 15 years ago. The science is available to get around the
'bug' problem as of he last few years, but rebuilding the handling & pre-processing facilities for con-
verting sugar beets for use as a source for producing ethanol would be expensive. Corn is dirt free
when delivered to the ethanol plant, but sugar beets are covered with dirt/mud. Not sure how much
cleaning & chopping would need to be done before beginning fermentation. The damn things can
be as big as a cows head sometimes & the small ones are the size of a human head.
The murderer Einhorn was the first to celebrate it. Anything based on such a foundation is rotten. All these people in the regime want is our money. They're committed to spreading the wealth never mind that we've spent trillions helping third word countries – the UN and our management of it stinks. We'd be fired if we handled money they way they do…
Where did the money go anyway? I still see horrific conditions and they lay the guilt on us. I'm not buying it anymore!
Hey JackA$$ ,, Get Your Government ,, Off My "Freedom"……!…How loong until 2010/2012???
As an American farmer I will be happy to transition to raising sugar-cane. However I don't believe
there is ANY crop that I can produce with no fertilizer. Soil is merely a growing medium when the
minerals are depleted hardly any crop will grow. In many parts of South America they are breaking
'virgin' land each year, thus no need for fertilization. When the same land is continuous cropped for
a few years I believe the addition of fertilizer will be warranted. Of course when I quit growing the
1/2 M Bu of corn I raise annually Corn Chex will probably be more expensive. I guess the USDA
could revert to their old ways of requiring me to raise certain crops, allowing me only the choice to
raise corn or quit farming.
Corn on the CBOT closed today @$3.8775, less than half the 2008 price. If food prices are rising
it has no relationship to the price of corn, more likely the price of cardboard or fuel for transportation.
Come on! You know Barrack promised that no one would see their taxes go up by one thin dime! (I think he meant they would go up by a big multiple of dimes.)
There is only one problem with Biofuels… There is no Petrofood!
never understood why PA voters didn't reject Sphincter over that revelation. I remember when
the downstairs neighbors were interviewed for the documentary, I still become ill when I think
about their story & it's probably been 10 yrs since I saw it. Hope the bastard rots in jail.
You know you have some very interesting posts. Thanx!
Yes the price per bussel may be lower because of increased production but it is the availabilty of corn for food and feed which has become more scarce and as a direct result those prices have risen, at least in the short term. There is also the unintended consequence that many farmers have switched to corn from other food crops. Look at the increased prices for almost all produce, this is a direct result of government interference in the markets.
There is only so much acerage which can grow crops and if too much is diverted to bio-fuel production it imacts all food prices.
Same hag who scrubbed EPA's hard drives before she left in 2001. Seems to be a pattern here…
No it does not. It actually takes very little energy to break that particular bond compared to other more complex molecules. It is the method that you choose to break these bonds that must be efficient on an industrial scale. This would actually be a good use for solar or even wind energy the energy produced could be stored as Hydrogen. It would still take a massive footprint to do the same thing a verysnall sized Natural Gas Fuled Generating plant would and Natural Gas is actaully a better source for Hydrogen because much more Hydrogen is available with a lower energy input. We get to use the energy released when breaking a bond to further break more bonds.
sorry richb313, but I am in an area surrounded by cattle feeding facilities, hundreds of them.
If their feed corn cost were as little as .30 cents over todays CBOT price my phone would be
ringing off he hook with calls from them asking me to contract my 2010 corn production directly
to their operation, rather than delivering it to one of the big grain co's. Here locally we have a
Cargill facility.
If food corn (cornmeal) is in short supply it is because the processors who normally contract
farmers in advance to grow that crop, for whatever reason did not contract enough production
in 2009 to last them through the year as they normally do. Food corn is a specialty crop that has
expensive requirements & a finicky disposition with much lower yields than feed corn. It is a
'contract only' crop, that very few farmers raise, because of the low profit potential.
to
CK, ………I remember when word got out about those Brazilian ethanol imports, it caused a big
buzz because so many ethanol plants in the US had closed & the ones that were still operat-
iona, were barely hanging on. We were in an almost trade war with Brazil after they had petit-
ioned the WTO about some BS unfair trade practice. If that boohaha had not been looming I
doubt the ethanol shipments from Brazil would have even been noticed.
If our cars have to drink corn, does that mean humans will have to drink gasoline?
Is this "Dishonest Obe's" final solution to the Christian problem?
Sounds like a government program to me!
Incomptence, corruption, lies, distortions, disaster, disrepect, insecure borders, looming nuclear incidents … ah sorry just musing about the all the wonders the progressives and the Obama administration have brought us.
1003 DAYS OF PAIN TO GO …
Ethanol is wreaking havoc for us mechanics and engineer's. When they force us to the 15% level (which is next for standard 87 octane "go go juice") there is going to be hell to pay. This stuff is corrosive NOW to anything other than aluminum and steel… another 5% and i"ll be changing fuel lines and weedeater primer bulbs twice a year. Its sad when you have to map the EPROM chip in your honda to burn this sh!t… just to make a little power. I'm over it all.. come on November… uhgggg.
cornpone, straighten me out here. I've been under the impression that:
1) There was a global grain shortage
2) Grain costs way too much to be a cost effective gasoline substitute
Are the prices you're dealing with artificially depressed or is this a genuine market phenomenon?
No wonder they invented scotch.
I'd have stayed half in the bag all day myself if I lived like that.
Progressives do not like people. They don't even pretend to on a consistent basis, only around election time when the neanderthals come out of their caves to demand government checks.
[...] beginning. This is where the consumer can be very important.” From BigGovernment.com: “At the same time that it revised its renewable fuel standards, the EPA also re-ran numbers relating to corn-based ethanol’s lifecycle emissions, and determined [...]
Day by day, more and more Americans are coming to realize that our Government has become an extortion racket.
Cool Massage Techniques
When you are the President and you can stack the deck with all those idealogist that totally ignore anything that resembles real science what else can be expected. Crap in, Crap out. Now that's science.
EPA — another Obama job killer helping BO "fundamentally transforming this country".
Just a bunch of obfuscators. Sounds dirty, doesn't it? Really now, the EPA getting something correct and in the best interests of the people might warrant a national holiday.
Brazil is the posterchild for ethanol production.
They produce about 300KBBL/day.
However, they consume about 2000KBBL/day in petroleum.
Thus, the country that does the very best job at producing ethanol still manages to offset their oil consumption by only 15%.
Biofuels are not practical.
Bio fuel? How about grinding up Moonbats?
[...] Scientists: EPA ‘Distorting’ Biofuels Reality. Posted in: Economy, Government Corruption ← What You Need To Know About The Recent Bertha [...]
the real problem with the distribution of food to the starving portions of the world population is,………
that before the overabundance of food reaches the mouths of the starving people,………..
it must first pass through the greedy hands of the evil despots in those parts of the world.
But with respect to converting grain into fuel,………….there is absolutely NO benefit to it.
ethanol made from corn does not effect food cost. corn that is used to make ethanol is still used for cattle feed, and also can be used for corn glucose. all they take out of the corn is the starch the rest of the corn is used to feed livestock or used for human consumption
Sorry DXM, they have no substance. There is nothing there to refine into anything useful…
Reminds me of Shakespeare "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"
AND they use biomass from SUGAR CANE!!!
The difference in their Biomass and how easily it can be made into ethanol vs. that of corn.
It doesnt really matter if one hates big oil or big corn, its a matter of making an efficient fuel and not rely on foreign sources. Gas prices would be alot cheaper if we drilled off our own shores and wont give money to people who want to kill us.
As for E85, what a joke that crap is. I have tried it in my E85 truck, and the economy of the truck dropped by 20%, and the fuel itself is still no greener than regual gas. As for your statement on Brazil, they rely on sugar cane based ethenal and its their only source of fuel for cars there or rahter the main source. Only thing is that, plant based ethenal is expensive to make and you still end up with a less efficient fuel. I would suggest to you that you get Buick on gas soon, cause unmodified, you will kill your current fuel system as ethenal eats through your fuel lines.
A critter so full of crap that it has an anal orifice at each end has to be at least a source of methane. Off topic, but I just got an e-mail from the CEO of USAA regarding the Financial bill.
Biofuel legislation has been and continues to be the only bipartisan issue left. McCain talked it up during the election to get votes. Bush was corn ethanol's biggest fan. Not a single environmental group in America supports corn ethanol.
"Oh, never mind."
http://www.biodiversivist.com
I believe that bill is a fine example of Moonbat excrement…
[...] BigGovernment.com [...]
jb, #1. No, there is no global shortage of grain. If you ever question this just compare recent
prices with 2008 prices. There was a semi-shortage in 2008, plus remember the crude oil
price in 07/08. In the last few years, corn prices will sometimes latch on to crude oil prices &
follow that market, especially when crude is over $80. Worldwide currency traders & some
fund traders have been using the grain market as a 'safe haven' in which to park their money
any time the dollar loses value. With electronic trading, their money can come into & leave the
grain trade daily & very often does, not only when the dollar is down, but before 3 day weekends
& holidays the grain markets will sometimes surge a few cents due to currency & fund trader
action.
Some areas of the world may experience grain shortages which are more often than not linked
to credit & logistical issues, rather than actual shortages. As ChiRalph said starving populat-
ions are usually due to their despotic rulers, not world-wide availability or price of raw food-stuffs.
USDA issues predictions of grain production inside the US, & world-wide. Many of the grain ex-
porting countries have been prodded by the US to issue their own production estimates, how-
ever USDA then undercuts them by critiquing their predictions. We also have many private co's
that issue predictions on various aspects of interest to grain traders. Recently USDA issued
their report estimating corn production to be up in 2010, therefor Dec 2010 corn dropped .25
cents in a period of 3 or 4 days. USDA OFTEN gets these various reports WRONG, then spends
the balance of the year shuffling numbers in an attempt to do an incremental correction that will hopefully go un-noticed by the grain trade. 20 years ago they got away with manipulating the grain market by this very mechanism, however now they are under so much scrutiny they are often chal-
by the private firms, however USDA NEVER admits they have made a mistake.
#2 The question is one of efficiency rather than price. If crude is $120/bbl & corn is $3.50 then
one could argue about the price efficiency. However at current prices there is no profit to be
made. Others on this thread have made arguments much more educated than I ever could
about production efficiency, so I defer to them on that vein, but I will say therein lies the Achil-
les Heel of using grain to produce ethanol.
IMO the Big 3 multi-national grain exporting co's operate their world-wide business very similar
to a monopoly, one could argue that their entrance into the ethanol production industry could be
a danger. They buy up the grain shortly after we produce it, so as owners of most of the grain in
the world they decide where it goes. If they decide to make ethanol rather than feeding & slaught-
ering cattle, then one could argue meat shortages could ensue. BTW, they also own major cattle feeding & slaughtering facilities, so there may be some interest in a balance there. Cargill has
been known to buy up huge numbers of cattle, slaughter & store it in refrigerated boxcars, then
do a cut-back in buying from privately owned feedyards & put some of their slaughter crews on
shorter hour schedules, many believe as a direct attempt to bankrupt their cattle feeding compe-
titors. Cargill is a privately held company based in Minnesota, however ADM is a publicly traded
co, so they are open to much more scrutiny. Con-Agra was selling off their grain 'arm' last I
heard, although I don't have time to keep up as I should. If Cargill or ADM is allowed to buy C-A's
grain export & handling arm, that could be very dangerous. These are all co's that would be con-
sidered waaay' too big to fail', if you get my drift. Where's George Soros in this scenario?
#3 Hopefully was answered within the last two answers. The issue is not black/white. Many
shades of gray in there. BTW, in case you're wondering, these are the short versions, sorry!
If you wish to follow up, farm futures.com is easy to navigate, with agricultureonline.com being
slightly more complicated. The USDA reports can be view there, but I warn you they are like a
never-ending fountain spewing forth BS, mostly by gvt bureaucrats in DC merely interested in
holding their position.
Axion,
What exactly about "biofuels" production is an attack on food production? What exactly does "food prices going through the roof" have to do with "biofuels" and what is so "worrisome" about this "thing" that warrants stopping it?
Regards,
OK AJS,
How about compared to 20 years ago (2.95 vs 3.87, a 1.35% annual increase vs. 3.1% increase annual for food overall.) If corn prices rose even with food prices overall in the past two decades corn would cost $5.43/bushel.
Stang289, you need to edit your link to the wiki page, it doesn't work. You need a space between the "!" and the rest of the url.
From what I have read, Corn is not the best source of bio-fuels. And ethanol is a poor bio-fuel since the actual energy required to produce a gallon of ethanol is almost the same as the amt of energy produced. Renewable, yes – economical, no.
hell no I wasn't using 08 as a baseline & you damn well know it, right back at cha, on
cherry-picking 06 as your baseline. 08 was an example of how high grain markets
have recently gone with certain market conditions & outside factors in play.
@$5.43 I will be more than happy to contract, for Oct delivery 300K bu of #2 yc.
When I checked earlier today Dec 2010 was down .10+ cents @ $3.77 & change.
oHugo jr's speech to Wall St yesterday caused a boom of confidence in the US
dollar, which makes grains more expensive for our foreign grain customers.
@$5.43 I will be more than happy to contract, for Oct delivery 300K bu of #2 yc.
When I checked earlier today Dec 2010 was down .10+ cents @ $3.77 & change.
oHugo jr's speech to Wall St yesterday caused a boom of confidence in the US
dollar, which makes grains more expensive for our foreign grain customers.
TT2000…………………..it is a perfect example of capitalism for me,………… but not for thee.
Mildly disconcerting when some of these self-professed conservatives are all for FREE markets,
until they realize their food prices might rise. They instantly become leftist authoritarians, advocat-
ing all manner of production & price controls.
We have to think about our future and our children too!
I was being sarcastic at best. Everything and anything they will come up with will be an utter failure, as always.
God Bless America
I'm not sure what your point is. If you look over the long term (from about 1970 on), prices have remained steady except for a brief blip in 1996 and the massive runup in 2008. What I'm saying is that ethanol was a major contributor to that price runup and that a concerted push to force ethanol into the market will do the same thing.
I don't know any such thing. You picked 2008 specifically; had you picked nearly any other year in the last 20 your point wouldn't have held. I didn't cherry pick because as I noted above, prices have held pretty much steady for the last 40 years until the ethanol-stoked bubble of 2008.
Once again cherrypicking 2008, the Great Ethanol Bubble. Go back to nearly any year prior to that back to about 1970 and you will see a flat price curve (1996 being the exception that proves the rule).
The overall incompetence and criminal levels of corruption in this administration are nothing short of astounding.
Making fuel out of corn is almost as smart as heating your home by burning your furniture, when you have plenty of firewood available. The lefties currently in charge would love to create a scarcity of food and thus 'create' another 'crisis' they could exploit to their political gain. The biofuels scam goes far to that end.
We are not running out of oil and there is no global warming, so why are we wasting food that could feed lots of hungry people? And since it takes more energy to produce a gallon of biofuel than the energy contained in that gallon, it's not only stupid and dangerous, its sinful. Its wasting perfectly good food.
And was this before or after the most recent invasion of Scotland by England of the time in question?
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