More Ethanol Handouts on the Table as DC Pols Go ‘Corny’
by Capitol ConfidentialLast month, Capitol Confidential reported that the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) could be set to give the already well-subsidized ethanol industry a big boost by approving an increase in the amount of ethanol blended into gasoline from 10 percent to 15 percent. That item sits at the top of the agenda of Washington, D.C.’s powerful ethanol lobby; a decision is expected to be reached on it later this year.

However, it is not the only handout to what critics dub “Big Corn” that may be on the table. Sources tell Capitol Confidential that pro-ethanol groups are also actively pushing for legislation that critics charge constitutes more government meddling in both the auto industry and the energy sector—and that they have some powerful advocates in Congress and the administration on their side.
About a week ago, Sen. Richard Lugar, an Indiana Republican, unveiled a “cap-and-trade alternative,” among whose key provisions would be one to push automotive manufacturers to increase the number of flex-fuel vehicles they build. Flex fuel vehicles are designed to run on E85, which is 85 percent ethanol. Consequently, critics charge, it would be a huge boon to ethanol producers—and also to government-controlled General Motors, a big producer of flex fuel vehicles—were Lugar’s legislation to pass and be signed into law.
That, in turn, is an outcome that ethanol critics tell Capitol Confidential Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack would strongly support.
Vilsack has reportedly been loudly advocating for pro-ethanol policies, including using government’s hand to force more flex fuel vehicle production, for months. In fact, sources say, Vilsack’s pro-ethanol advocacy has in effect set up something of an intra-Cabinet cage match with Energy Secretary Steven Chu.
Ethanol advocates, including Vilsack, view Chu as insufficiently ethanol-friendly, despite him reportedly having said in June of last year that all American cars should be E85 capable.
Vilsack, a former Iowa Governor, long-time friend of the ethanol and biofuels lobby, has been described by the American Coalition for Ethanol’s Executive Vice President Brian Jennings as “a very effective advocate” for the food-based-fuel.
Indeed an effort, announced last week, to turn the U.S. Navy into a major consumer of biofuels, seems to bear that out. Vilsack’s Agriculture Department has partnered with the U.S. Navy on the initiative, which would entail the development of so-called “Green Strike Groups” and “Great Green Fleets” comprising biofuel nuclear ships and aircraft powered by biofuels, and increased reliance on—you guessed it– flex fuel vehicles. The move has been cheered by ethanol fans.
For his part, President Obama is also seen as a friend of ethanol by key players in the industry, including Renewable Fuels Association President Bob Dinneen who attended and live-tweeted his recent energy speech, noting his appreciation for Obama’s support for ethanol, and indeed Obama’s support for flex-fuel vehicles. Critics charge that that friendliness could translate into additional, major handouts to the ethanol industry as November nears: Setting aside Vilsack and many congressmen’s predisposition to backing ethanol giveaways, they note that several of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee’s designated Frontline Democrats are from Midwestern districts where the ethanol industry plays an important role.
Observers say that over the next few weeks, the administration’s intentions with regard to policy impacting the ethanol industry are likely to become clear. Ethanol skeptics are closely monitoring developments.






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153 Comments
Don't you just love it when the government uses your money to subsidize an industry and raise your prices in the same fell swoop?
I'd tell you what I'd like to do with 537 of those corn cobs…………………………………but it'd be ugly.
Ethanol reduces your cars miles per gallon, so it increases your costs for gasoline, thanks govt. i appreciate it
Whats so stupid is the Ethanol produces more CO2 then petrol
Its also plays hell in fiberglass fuel tanks in boats causing them to delaminate over time and plug up your fuel system.
We know ethanol isn't what it's cracked up to be..and yet these stupid politicians..including Repub.Sen. Lugar, try to push it off on all of us to help their state. What kind of stupid sh*t is that? We need to kick all of their butts down the road and get rid of government intervention that is strangling this nation. We need LESS government..lets vote for that in Nov.
Look at the bright side. If you have your own still you can make your own fuel.
It's called moonshine.
It's more devious than anything a James Bond villain would devise.
Shhh. You're not supposed to know that.
Not all cars can tolerate excessive ethanol. Is O trying to blow them up or get them off the road by increasing the amount of corny gasoline?
Since there is no global warming, and CO2 is NOT our enemy, what else could be the purpose? If O can destroy American car engines and fuel lines with ethanol, then more people will buy his Obaman-8, right?
After all, O is the chief engineer of two car companies. And he can't even drive. But he do jump.
If I'm not mistaken it also wears out your motor faster from increased wear and tear on the cylinder walls and pistons……………That's always real nice for your engine.
I'll be buying no cars from Noblama motors.
I'd rather ride in a rickshaw.
I have a Honda Motorcycle. Great gas mileage and not union made.
And good for Govt. Motors!
The gas prices are already bad enough right now.
It makes popcorn and corn bread cost more…
Wonder what game these a-holes are conjuring up now? The administrations fiscal policies have
been so far out in left field, getting corn prices up a few cents isn't gonna' buy them any votes in farm
country, although in the corn belt it might keep them from losing some dem votes. Wonder how the
polling has been going for dems in Iowa, Indiana, & Illinois? I need to check out the farmer web-sites
& see how planting season is going. Recently USDA ran a report of acreage intentions showing about
3 M more corn acres than last year ,which ran the price down .25-.30 cents. Everyone thinks it's BS be-
cause in the upper mid-west there were many unharvested acres still in the field from last fall. It would
be almost impossible to harvest those acres & put them back in corn this spring. These guys definitely
have something up their sleeve, with this leak/announcement.
there should be a maze exemption for people with native american blood
Ethanol is corrosive to many of the parts of an engine….I never put a drop in my cars….All of my cars have gone 180,000 miles {some well over 250,000} or more without ever cracking the valve covers…..I live in the rust belt so they usually rust away before they quit running….
Keep it up Barack Hussein Obama. Every day more and more Americans are awakening to the debt and the Election Day in November is but 6 months and 8 days away. You and your minions are ensuring a conservative House and Senate. Spend it now because there will not be a penny for your foolishness very soon. Why I wonder how you will like it when you lose funding for CZARS and Michelles staff???
You call it maze, we call it corn,….
LOL
Off topic – but good for her
———————————————————–
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISrLqRwmx_0&fe...
And the bribes, corruption and pay-offs keep coming. All aboard the government gravy train courtesy of the American tax payer who gets stuck with the bill…..as always.
Great article. Either you believe in free enterprise or you believe in corporate welfare.
People do not understand the loss of mileage, performance and long term damage from forcing you to buy ethanol. Most of the food you buy is now from overseas so all the farmers here can grow corn and raise all costs of producing farming goods
This causes increased engine knock that damages pistons and rings. For every 1% or ethanol means engine us running 1% leaner so 15% (E15) means your engine is super lean
This causes the engine management to force richer fuel AFR eating up more fuel. This can cause lean error codes, frying the snog parts like CAT and carbon up the 02 sensors.
Cars older then 2 years were never designed for this, the engine management cannot properly adjust for it and the life of engine is reduced.
Being gas suppliers get a bonus from the crooks of obama gang they tend to add even more methanol as their bonus is raised by how much of this crap they sell.
If you add up all the sneaky crap obama is doing such as states making selling pot and smoking it legal yet behind your back they now make it illegal to buy cigarettes and have them shipped.
Interesting smoking is bad for us unless your a pot head.
Who is surprised a dope pusher like the obamas would do this ?
The P.A.C.T. (Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking) Act is a new law that prohibits shipment of cigarettes thru U.S. Mail and will effectively end the mail-order sale of cigarettes over the internet and by telephone.
I guess obama wants you all to buy the pot from the illegal aliens who have been ripping up our forests to plant pot and to assure mexico has a even bigger export of products
Will someone please unseat Sen Lugar? I live in Indiana and I want no more part of him. We grow corn in Indiana, however, I do not want to be forced to subsidize anyone's corn production here in Indiana. Or Iowa. Or any other corn state. Can't we get back to the days when a farmer grew the crop that he could sell and the government stayed out of control of crops. If a farm fails, they fail. Oh wait, we can't allow that. Capitalism, that dirty word.
If any of these green technologies including ethanol were truly marketable they would not have to be so heavily subsidized. Ethanol requires more energy to produce it than it provides in burning it. Who said the Government ever used logic and common sense in writing legislation. Vote them ALL out in November!
This is old news. and GOOD news !
For starters corn to ethanol is mandated (National Energy and Security ACT of 2007) at no more than 15 Billion Gallons.. (we are already at 11+ billion gallons)
Everything after that is to start coming form cellulosic material.. 2 cellulosic ethanol plants have already started and Coskata.com can make ethanol out of any carbon based feedstock including .. wood chips ,industrial waste , garbage and even old tires !(And GM is invested in them !)
So the request to ALLOW up-to E15 is to ensure that these cellulosic Companies will continue to invest in building ethanol plants.
Yes it will short term also help corn.. which isn't a big deal anyway since corn is trading at around just $3.75 for 56lbs (1 bushel) ..despite that fact that we produce more ethanol than we ever had.
Vehicles:
E15 isnt a big..ALL the engine and fuel parts on your car are the same as what is in a flex fuel vehicle.. in fact to any late model car 1985 and up run on high blend ethanol like E85 ..simply using larger injectors , or adjustable fuel pressure regulator or even a conversion kit.
Of course we aren't talking about high blend ethanol like E85..just E15.. it simply isn't a big deal.. Brazil's core fuel is E22-E25.
As Far as Senator Lugers amendment to have the Auto Industry make all vehicles ..Flex Fuel Vehicles ..the cost is literally less than $100 .. All of the parts are the same on a Non FFV as in a FFV.. the only difference is the vehicles computer software.. it needs a different fuel mapping program.. IN FACT .. GM says it cost then just $40 (Yeah I know..you know everyhting and are saying BS..whatever .. perhaps you would like to hear it right from GM?… OK here you go..
Hear it for yourself right from the horses moth so to speak.. Watch the the Video (right side) that Titled GM wants 10,000 new E85 Stations
Ethanol is a far cleaner fuel than gasoline.. as someone else pointed out it literally IS moonshine..you can drink it..that is why by law it has to have an additive to make it un-drinkable.. that additive would be ? ..yep dirty old gasoline !
Imagine that for $40 every American can choose between American Made E85 ethanol or Middle East Gasoline .. lets see.. American Jobs or new Palaces for the Kings and Princes in Saudia Arabia ?
There are some Good things are Politicians are up to..this happens to be one.. creates a million new jobs , keeps tens of billions of US Dollars here in OUR economy instead of helping another countries economy.. slows our reliance on Foreign oil which increases our National Security and lowers our "need" to subsidize the Oil Companies with our Military..blood and money.
To the guy with the boat ..yes ethanol is hard on fiberglass..so keep using gasoline .. there is no requirement that all Stations must carry E15… We pushing for more blender pumps.. a Blender pump allows you to choose whatever fuel mix you would like .. Unleaded , E10, E130, E40, E60 or E85..this allows consumers to that don't want any ethanol to have that choice right at the pump and allows everyone else to choose whatever blend of ethanol they prefer
As if there aren't enough markets for CORN in the world.
Yeah like we need to subsidize an industry that is producing way more than it should already. Keep burning our food. Does that mean we are going to start eating oil and coal?
Corn should be used for food…Period.
And you'd get sent to moderators hell, my friend! ;^) +Hanzo+
that's maize, anyway.;^) +Hanzo+
My son told me the same thing a long time ago. He's one of many auto technicians who sounded the warning here in OKC many years ago. Local news investigated it… As result, people stopped buying it… Gas stations stopped selling it… Can't even find it, where I live, anymore. Now it sounds like the liars and thieves in DC are gearing up to ram it down our throats, just like… well, you know. Crap, now my blood pressures up. I'm going to head out to the gun range.
Food ? LOL.. To funny.. again ..what part don't you all understand. BY LAW we can only produce 15 billion gallons of ethanol from Corn. We ALREADY produce 11+ Billion Gallons.. and corn remains cheap chepa cheap.. $3.75 a bushel.. 56 lbs..
There is literally jsut pennies woorth of corn in your food..the cost of your food is packaging, utilities , transportation wages and profits..
example ..
1 lb box of corn Flakes …
$3.75 / 56 = 6.6 cents.. that si how much the corn costs ina 1 lb box of corn flakes..
So for example if you pay $3.00 for a box of corn flakes.. $2.94 cents is all packaging, wages , transportation etc.. and the corn ? .. 6 lousy cents.. so enough of the nonsense about corn ethanol raiding food prices.. it is pure poppycock
WE are moving FROM Corn ethnaol TO Cellullose ethanol
too bad youre not within smackin in the face queeny
JRvette.. ethanol does not not cause engine knock.. in fact it Prevents engine knock.. E85 is 105 Octane..the higher the octane ..the LESS engine knock
This thread is a perfect example of the "bad" side of the interest. to many people just spouting off on topics they have absolutely no real knowledge about..
Raise your hand if you are just repeating "stuff" that you heard on the internet
I apologize..but it gets so old listening to so many people that would Prefer to send their money for foreign oil instead of supporting American communities..
Wake UP.. we are importing nearly 70% of the oil we need.. do you realize how dangerous that is for our security ? 16% of those imports come directly form the Middle East./. form people that prefer us dead.. WE are subsidizing the Oil Industry with the blood of kids.. wake the hell up.. enough is enough start supporting your neighbors instead of the Middle East .. start providing jobs here at home and start sending our kids into harms way for the sake of Oil
This is not Republicans Democrats ..do you people even realize that these bills supporting ethanol come from BOTH sides of the aisle.. Republicans AND Democrats support this
Its not the corn price… its the Water, of which we have a finite amount.
Just ask Colorado two years ago… or California last year.
If we are growing corn, to turn to fuel, with that water, we are not using it to grow other forms of food.
It aint just about corn… and celllose is still years away… if it is economical without government subsidy? go for it… but ANY fuel which takes Gov subsidies to be competitive is stupid IMO.
Dan, simply your FOS,
When using straight gas, engines were designed to run clean exhaust when almost 15 parts of air to only 1 part of fuel.
The more ethanol is added since if cannot product the same about of energy the stoich ratio in using E85 is down to less then 10 parts of air to 1 part of fuel, hence 25% more fuel is needed.
This reduces fuel mileage by a huge percentage and to even travel the same distance as normal gas the car now has to hold twice the amount of fuel volume plus hundreds of pounds of added weight to reduce mileage even further.
Those of us who are wrenchers know your FOS as in last couple of years even when E10 was mandated a huge rash of costs to the car owners with failing fuel pumps, problems with fuel injectors, stalling engines, engines having large amounts of engine knock (ping) .
Also being made of corn, it degrades and causes bio organisms to grow and pollute the fuel system and cannot be stored for long. Simple sunlight would induce that even more.
In fact those who recall one example that was in Florida where a gas supplier ( non American Shell) was dumping huge volume of ethanol and thousands of cars powertrains were damaged.
American engine designs did NOT consider using parts or engine management for ethanol and even cars 2 years old have zero way to measure and know how much percentage of ethanol there is from one tank of fuel to the next and clearly cannot adjust for it.
It has been well proven that us taxpayers will pay a lot more to travel the same distance with this con job of ethanol.
Your brainwashing of the use of E85 is a total joke as all farms would have to cease growing anything but corn to meet the fuel needs.
You obama bangers really think Americans are stupid . . .
Hmmm….tryna' figure out what the hell that means.Haven't learned to speak english yet? Perhaps you could take an ESL class.
Still hate educated people, I see. What a fucking idiot you truly are.Any detrimental comment coming from the likes of a douchebag such as yourself is seen to be a compliment to all sane, learned people, everywhere.
I wish I was within arms reach of you.I'd kick your pathetic ass all over the place, bitchboy.
+Hanzo+
That was a quick reply, considering I wasn't directing my comment toward you.Guarding your little comments jealously, like a vengeful little bitch? Get a life. +Hanzo+
Here is the Energy and Security Act of 2007 signed by George Bush
This si the Bill ..the Law that mandates Ethanol Production. to move us away from imported Oil..
Here is how all the Republicans and Democrats voted.. you see both sides of the aisle want this .. OTHER than funny enough Texas .. Oklahoma and other "oil States" mostly..wonder why they dont like ethanol ? :grin
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s20...
Vote Details
Cartogram
Standard Projection
Horizontal bars indicate the two senators from a state voted differently.
Cartograms give an equal area in an image to an equal number of votes by distorting the image. Senate vote cartograms are shown with each state stretched or shrunk so that the states each take up an equal area because each state has two votes. For House votes, it is each congressional district which is stretched or shrunk.Vote
[Sort]State
[Sort]Representative
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Alabama
YeaALSessions, Jefferson [R]
Not VotingALShelby, Richard [R]
Alaska
YeaAKMurkowski, Lisa [R]
YeaAKStevens, Ted [R]
Arizona
NayAZKyl, Jon [R]
Not VotingAZMcCain, John [R]
Arkansas
YeaARLincoln, Blanche [D]
YeaARPryor, Mark [D]
California
Not VotingCABoxer, Barbara [D]
YeaCAFeinstein, Dianne [D]
Colorado
NayCOAllard, Wayne [R]
YeaCOSalazar, Ken [D]
Connecticut
YeaCTDodd, Christopher [D]
YeaCTLieberman, Joseph [I]
Delaware
YeaDEBiden, Joseph [D]
YeaDECarper, Thomas [D]
Florida
NayFLMartinez, Mel [R]
YeaFLNelson, Bill [D]
Georgia
NayGAChambliss, Saxby [R]
NayGAIsakson, John [R]
Hawaii
YeaHIAkaka, Daniel [D]
YeaHIInouye, Daniel [D]
Idaho
YeaIDCraig, Larry [R]
YeaIDCrapo, Michael [R]
Illinois
YeaILDurbin, Richard [D]
YeaILObama, Barack [D]
Indiana
YeaINBayh, Evan [D]
YeaINLugar, Richard [R]
Iowa
YeaIAGrassley, Charles [R]
YeaIAHarkin, Thomas [D]
Kansas
Not VotingKSBrownback, Samuel [R]
NayKSRoberts, Pat [R]
Kentucky
NayKYBunning, Jim [R]
NayKYMcConnell, Mitch [R]
Louisiana
NayLALandrieu, Mary [D]
NayLAVitter, David [R]
Maine
YeaMECollins, Susan [R]
YeaMESnowe, Olympia [R]
Maryland
YeaMDCardin, Benjamin [D]
YeaMDMikulski, Barbara [D]
Massachusetts
YeaMAKennedy, Edward [D]
YeaMAKerry, John [D]
Michigan
NayMILevin, Carl [D]
NayMIStabenow, Debbie Ann [D]
Minnesota
YeaMNColeman, Norm [R]
YeaMNKlobuchar, Amy [D]
Mississippi
NayMSCochran, Thad [R]
NayMSLott, Trent [R]
Missouri
Not VotingMOBond, Christopher [R]
NayMOMcCaskill, Claire [D]
Montana
YeaMTBaucus, Max [D]
YeaMTTester, Jon [D]
Nebraska
NayNEHagel, Charles [R]
YeaNENelson, Ben [D]
Nevada
YeaNVEnsign, John [R]
YeaNVReid, Harry [D]
New Hampshire
YeaNHGregg, Judd [R]
YeaNHSununu, John [R]
New Jersey
YeaNJLautenberg, Frank [D]
YeaNJMenendez, Robert [D]
New Mexico
YeaNMBingaman, Jeff [D]
YeaNMDomenici, Pete [R]
New York
YeaNYClinton, Hillary [D]
YeaNYSchumer, Charles [D]
North Carolina
NayNCBurr, Richard [R]
NayNCDole, Elizabeth [R]
North Dakota
YeaNDConrad, Kent [D]
YeaNDDorgan, Byron [D]
Ohio
YeaOHBrown, Sherrod [D]
NayOHVoinovich, George [R]
Oklahoma
Not VotingOKCoburn, Thomas [R]
NayOKInhofe, James [R]
Oregon
YeaORSmith, Gordon [R]
YeaORWyden, Ron [D]
Pennsylvania
YeaPACasey, Robert [D]
YeaPASpecter, Arlen [D]
Rhode Island
YeaRIReed, John [D]
YeaRIWhitehouse, Sheldon [D]
South Carolina
NaySCDeMint, Jim [R]
NaySCGraham, Lindsey [R]
South Dakota
Not VotingSDJohnson, Tim [D]
YeaSDThune, John [R]
Tennessee
YeaTNAlexander, Lamar [R]
YeaTNCorker, Bob [R]
Texas
NayTXCornyn, John [R]
NayTXHutchison, Kay [R]
Utah
NayUTBennett, Robert [R]
NayUTHatch, Orrin [R]
Vermont
YeaVTLeahy, Patrick [D]
YeaVTSanders, Bernard [I]
Virginia
YeaVAWarner, John [R]
YeaVAWebb, Jim [D]
Washington
YeaWACantwell, Maria [D]
YeaWAMurray, Patty [D]
West Virginia
YeaWVByrd, Robert [D]
YeaWVRockefeller, John [D]
Wisconsin
YeaWIFeingold, Russell [D]
YeaWIKohl, Herbert [D]
Wyoming
NayWYEnzi, Michael [R]
In my wife's new Subaru WRX, when we use 10% Ethanol gas, our gas mileage drops 10%, so we end up using more gasohol and paying more for the privilege. Not only is the price of gas higher needlessly, the price of beef, pork, and chicken are higher since feed corn is diverted to make ethanol. Everyone loses except Congress and the Corn Growers associations. Makes no sense. But that's entirely expected, right? This is a government directive.
whats a matter havent had your daily barney frankfurter, you prissy lil spell check queen, run your mouth like the infant you are, anytime you make it to Richmond VA be sure to let me know, so we can meet at the ymca and lace up the gloves, and when youre cryin "stop stop i cant see straight" guess what i'll continue pummeling you mercilessly to teach you a good lesson queen
George Soros is heavily invested in corn based bio-fuels. Everyone agrees corn is the worst choice for bio-fuels. George Soros created Barack Obama. Need anything more be said. Don't let them get away with this insanity.
These people..both sides of the Oil Voted to LOWER our dependence of foreign oil (to enhance our National Security) ..
This is what we want our Government to be doing..this is what they are suppose to be doing..
Quit listening to these anti big government goof balls and start thinking for yourselves..
Do you want to subsidize oil with your child's life? your neighbors child? ..would you rather see our men and women our kids heading off to protect Oils interest overseas or working are the local Ethanol Plant.. whether that be corn or cellulose?
I know the people in most of these other Countries are terrific people ..the people themselves are fine (but their nutcases are bent to hell on destroying us) and yes we need to keep doing business ..what we do not need to do is be subservient to any Country for our energy needs.. We have al seen the Photos of Bush kissing the Saudis hand and Obama bowing..
We should be ashamed and embarrassed that we have allowed our Country to fall so low that we are bowing and kissing the hand of OIl..Foreign Oil
Lets please stop repeating the anti ethanol propaganda that oil started and everyone just repeats. start doing your OWN thinking..
That's not to much to ask is it? Seriously sit down and ask your self who you would rather support ..
Corn ethanol is energy efficient, as
indicated by an energy ratio of 1.34; that is, for every
Btu dedicated to producing ethanol there is a 34-
percent energy gain.
From:http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/AF/265.pdf
FDA says Corn ethanol only gives a 34% increase in energy over what it needs to make it… and that does NOT include the fact that field, and water, could be used for somthing else.
I'd much prefer DRILLING…
But heck, don't worry about what the FDA says… after all… I gots it ofz za intertubes…
And generates more pollution to produce. And has only 2/3rd's the energy potential. And… Well, let's just say it is a raw deal except for "Big corn" and they politicians it will help re-elect.
Video 1 Coskata.. can turn anything carbon based into ethanol.even old tires. General Motors ins invested in them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGJbLE2ULKE&fe...
And here is GM VP annucing they want 10,000 more E85 Stations and that it only costs them $40 to make any Non flex fuel vehicle into a flex fuel vehicle.. that's right $40 and YOU the consumer then have an actual choice at the pump.. ! ..despite the nonsense you have certainly heard it just isn't a big deal to make a non flex fuel vehicle into a flex fuel vehicle that can run on ethanol or gasoline .. it is such a non big deal that even the Model T ran on 100% ethanol.. the idea was that back then most people lived outside of the cities.. the people could simply make their fuel ..because ethanol is …. really nothing more than moonshine! And yes with a FFV you can buy a still and make your own ethanol.. you have to get a federal permit though.. cost $100 .. Just so the Feds can stop by and make sure you are making fuel and not drink :grin
You starting to understand why Oil hates Ethanol so much !
opps here is the GM Video..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efVWYxBQFyc&fe...
Wants 10,000 more E85 Stations and a GM VP tells you right out it only costs them $40 to make any production vehicle into a flex fuel vehicle.. usually just some software adjustments to the cars computer
As I said before, jackass, anyone who isn't fighting an amateur or professional bout uses hook and loop gloves.Obviously you are a Walter Mitty, dreaming of being a badass someday, like I am.Not gonna' happen, cupcake.
You don't even know what the hell you're talking about.Gonna' bring the rest of the Village People to the YMCA? Why not meet me at Northside Boxing Club, in Cincy?
Too bad you are such an illiterate.Well, not really.The world needs morons as a contrast to the smart people of the world.Morons like you and the rest of the trolls here.Everyone else here is smart.Except you. Not you, you're not smart, you're a fucking asswipe.Get it? ha ha +Hanzo+
Some stations in the OKC area are now carrying both. I try not to put the corny stuff but sometimes on trips you just can't find a station without it in some parts….
You miss the point: I don't want to subsidize (MY labor, MY earnings!) some company so it can produce a product that is not economically viable. I resent being told I have to consume a product I don't want to buy. And it pisses me off that some so-called Americans are comfortable enriching themselves by picking my pocket, and then telling me what a wonderful benefit to society they supposedly are! Criminal arrogance…
yep and we haven't even gotten to the summer driving season yet….it'll be back to $4 a gallon…
If it was truly good for America, and economically viable, it would NOT NEED to steal money from middle class Americans to survive. I do not like the federal government choosing winners and losers in anything but foreign conflicts. We have enough domestic energy sources if the frickin' feds would just let Americans do what we do best – Produce!
i heard a way you ruin an enimies car is pour sugar in the gas tank
Lets not forget that it will drive US food prices up and adversely effects relief efforts in Africa and 3rd world areas.
ONLY 34% ! lol..
Romeo we already have started cellulose production.. 10 million gallons this year.. this is the first real production year for cellulose.. thats part of why you see the E15 move.. to keep the investment in Cellulose ethanol those investors have to be assure that there will be a market and that oil isn't allowed to just crush this new Industry…You want to get past corn then we have ot have the volume for investment to make those investments in cellulose.
Corn ethanol is just a foundation to cellulose ..thats all it was ever meant to be ..hence which is why by Law we can only produce 15 billion gallons form corn..everything after that has to start coming form cellulose (we are already at 11 billion corn..and corn is still incredibly cheap..went up in 2008 on nothing more than speculators/gamblers.. they should be banned from commodities..they did the same thing worth corn in 2008 that the Enron speculators did with electricity in California))
As far as subsidies..try and name one industry that isn't subsidized.. everything is subsidized.. everything gets written off big business and small business..thats just a fact of American Business ..
I can live with that..what I cant live with is subsidizing not only money but blood as well to kepe the oil flowing..it is incredible insane ..that we are sending our family members oveaseas to die and be killed ..all in the name of oil..it's insane .
Drill ? Fine by me.. but drill here..just keep away far enough off shore that they don't destroy America beaches and coastal cities.. You do know that we cant drill enough to support our needs though.. we need the diversity of energy… oil , ethanol, electricity hydrogen..get them all going and competing against each other to ensure the consumer always has the power to choose ..to keep prices low and to keep all the industries working hard
i wear boxing gloves to protect my hands when i bust your jaw, the pain will be double for you because you wont be able to have your daily barney frankfurter
Aside for thefact that e15 will void your powertrain warranty if you have a new car with less than 50,000 miles/5 years on it, it might be a good idea. But who takes care if your warranty when you are forced t void it? The government ? The manufacturerers who have prima facie evidence you have voided your warranty, because there is no e10 fuel available? Or will you the owner have to sue you auto company or the EPA for putting you in a corner.
You parobably won't see an E15 mandate until 2022 for these and other reasons. What you will see is a massive amount of e85 flex fuel vehhicles beause of the major loophole given them in Obama's edict to accelerate 35 mpg CAFE by 2016. In reality this is not an efficiency gain, it is giving flex fuel vehicles mileage credits that thay can't get on raw numbers. The CAFE targets are a charade, designed to satisfy the corn lobby.
The Brits are paying 6 british pounds per litre.
That's @ $9.00 per gallon. OUCH!
Drives up the cost of animal feeds too. Lots of gas stations around here have "100% Gas, No Ethanol" signs up. I fill my F-350 Diesel up at them
sounds like you know alot about it, youre dad must have taught you that or was it mom
liberals hate the law of unintended consequences, ruins all their "smart" social engineering ideas
Arizona did a bit with the natural gas vehicles. NGV incentives and whatnot. It was a bust, to say the least. Lots of money wasted, nothing to show for it.
Without the government subsidies, ethanol producers can't turn a profit.
The president of Erie-based Hero BX is hoping a $1-a-gallon tax credit is restored soon for the sake of the company and its employees.
The tax credit, which expired Dec. 31, figures to be a key to helping the industry stand on its own until customers are established and mandates kick in that build demand, said Mike Noble, president of Hero BX.
The company, is Pennsylvania's largest biofuel producer and one of the largest plants in the country with a production capacity of 45 million gallons a year. But the plant hasn't been producing at full capacity for much of this year, operating for just 20 of the first 71 days of 2010. "It costs us about $3 to produce a gallon of biofuel and (without the subsidy) we are selling it for $2," said Chris Peterson, company vice president.
I question the use of a business model that relies on a subsidy for its survival.
We get it, you loves the ethanol. You are so blinded by your undying devotion to ethanol that you are unable to see that there are legitimate arguements against the further subsidizing of it. Ethanol production drives up the prices of animal feeds, among other things. You need to get a grip and realize that intelligent people can have a discussion with out calling each other names.
They'll be firing up government subsidized desalinization plants shortly.
i wouldnt expend 1 iota of energy getting near a terd, but if a terd gets near me i will put it in the garbage where it belongs, get it dumb fuc#
go have your daily cry creampuff
This is tree hugging run amok. EPA has got to go.
why do you think im youre dad?
if you say so must be true, last guy that said that was on his back after one punch, history repeats itself dosent it
No, I don't think you're anyones dad.Homos don't have kids.And I'd say you don't know who your dad is.That would make you a cocksucking bastard. +Hanzo+
You really do not know. It takes more BTUS to make a gallon of ethanol than is given off by burning a gallon.
We use mostly natural as to heat the starch ,Distill the ethanol and dry the distillers grain.
you got your panties all wadded up, its fun gettin you all worked up, but your low IQ and repetition makes it boring, yawn…smakin you around would be better
Ooowww, scary. I'm still standin', Liberace wannabe. Yep, I said it and you said it must be true.So you're out of the closet now.Cathartic for you?You g*yblade you.+Hanzo+
"last guy that said…..blah blah". And you were on your knees, as usual.
+Hanzo+
i know you want to have a slap fight or a tickle fight, more youre thing. too bad bare knucles would cause you to get a bad ouchy
The second largest ethanol company is bankrupt. Panda is bankrupt. Farmers that peddle this concept are morally and financially bankrupt. Verison cheated farmers for several hundred million dollars of grain contracts.
There are no American banks left that are stupid enough to do ethanol plant loans. The ethobol is so bad the railroads refuse to use their tank cars to transport the corrosive mess. The ethanol plants have to buy their own rail cars.
Why aLL THE bankruptcies when the subsidies are so large?
Banks are refusingto finance this scam. Too many got burned!!!!
Not only are you verrrrrrry illiterate, you're borrrrrring.
*YAWN* +Hanzo+
An insignificant pissant such as yourself couldn't get me riled up.Don't get excited.
My low IQ? Ha ha.Don't let your boyfriend SMAK you around too much tonight,illiterate tough guy.Thanks for making my point and proving my point, perfesser.
+Hanzo+
youre boyfriends gonna be jealous…al the time you spend thinkin of me, of smellin my farts, you weirdo
keep trying to convince yourself your not a mo, good luck with that
The FAA forbids the use of ethanol-blended fuel in regular aircraft. Ethanol-blended fuel can harm rubber fuel bladders, damage hoses, and attract water into the engine encouraging rust. FAA studies have also shown ethanol to cause inaccurate readings on fuel gauges and problems with electric fuel pumps. Premium auto gas in some states has been saved from an ethanol mix too, but that may change due to mandates put on the petroleum companies. Avgas is not suited to many older engines because of its high octane. The salvation for pilots who want or need to use mogas could come from the recreational motorsports sector, which may have the numerical clout to make regulators listen. Many engines used in boats, personal watercraft, ATVs and motorcycles are also harmed by ethanol.
Put ethanol blend in your airplane if you want to die.
Damn, you are illiterate.+Hanzo+
Burning ethanol in an internal combustion engine is an obscene waste of perfectly good moonshine.
Steal Money..are you insane.. ethanol gets hardly any subsidies compared to Oil.. are you prepared to to also stop all subsidies for Oil?
Again ..ALL Induistries are subsidized..
Are you saying you prefer to subsidize Oil over Ethanol..knowing ful well that the Oil Subsidies includ the blood of oiur troops to secure that oil ?
Are you saying you prefer to subsidize Oil and have your money sent so Saudi Arabi can build more Palaces for it's Kings insterad of keeping that money here to support local American communities?
Are you saying you prefer to subsidies Oil to ensure that your money goes to the bloody Middle East instead of jeeping that money here in the States to provide Jonbs for your family or your neighbors familes?
The Middle Class needs Jobs and needs to quit sending thier sons and daughters to kill and be killed for oil..
The Middle Class more than anyone needs to support ethanol moving forward ..
Ethanol uses edible foodstuffs, it requires more BTU's to produce than you get out of it, it has to be subsidized to the tune of 1.40 a gallon to be worth making…….it has Federal Gubmint written all over it! And the old duffer Lugar and his cronies are going to make a small fortune because of it.
OK, now that I've blown up some crap and my blood pressure is back to normal, I called my son about your question. He said this: "The vast majority of cars and trucks on the road today were manufactured with materials only compatible with petroleum products." He didn't know the specifics about sugar cane fuel but said he said he would look into it and get back to me. He did say that unless someone 'specifically' states that 'blends' will cause no harm to your vehicle – avoid them! He recommends getting it in writing – from the manufacturer, car dealer, or better yet from an ethanol producer or the EPA – Reason? He sees many class action lawsuits coming down the pike…
Dan pure bunk
I have tested many cars over the last 2 years and the OBD-II data reported from the engine management tells the real story along with hundreds of customers I have that had many negative effects from even E10.
Engines were programmed to have a EPA stoich of 14.7:1, the fact E10 causes engines to run at least 10% leaner means the stoich has to be reprogrammed richer because there is no EPA requirement for nameplates to set AFR for non WOT conditions other then the still older 14.7: AFR.
You have zero knowledge of real world and I suggest you do a search on internet and you will find the most common search for cars is why their car is tripping lean DTC error codes which anyone knowing even basic engine functions knows the leaner AFR is the more apt to trigger engine knock and the hotter the weather is the fuel trims get even leaner and ping increases more that over time cause ringlands of pistons to break off and score cylinder walls
Read this and weep, collected engine data output and analyzed results of what I have seen many times due to ethanol
http://www.teamzr1.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?...
The real story is obama wants africa and other countries to produce ethanol so we can pay them to import it here for even higher costs to the tax payers.
as soon as government gets involved, you know it's going to get corrupted…
Dan,
I prefer the FREE market over crap politicians and their cronies manipulating things to the benefit of the "clique".
How far would the price of oil fall if we could exploit our own VERY considerable reserves? If the Nuclear industry didn't have to contend with saving the "green trial lawyer gravy beetle" as an "endangered" species just to break ground on a new plant? If Automotive companies didn't have to adjust to the arbitrary whims of the political class and their political supporters? BHO MANDATED a 40% increase in CAFE standards by 2016! What solutions did he offer to achieve this? Bullshit, feel-good fiat! Bogus science and ZERO consideration for the millions of lives affected by the "unintended" consequences of nonsensical policies who's only effects are to hamper business and raise costs for the consumer (and to "win" the votes of fools).
Sorry wonk, but your argument doesn't play with me.
You probably believe businesses actually pay taxes. (Hint: It is a cost of business passed on to the consumer, no matter what).
Play your foolish word games with the barons of law and opinion, they don't fool me. Freedom and Capitalism have solved more problems in a shorter period of time than all other "systems" will ever be able to honestly claim.
Square the B.S. these or any idiots try to peddle you with a well grounded PHILOSOPHY of freedom instead of letting the waters get muddied by psuedoscience or false-choice moral arguments. Reduce the "complex" to it's essence and the answer is clear…
Your playing the obama gang brainwash game.
GM does not promote using corn but rather garbage, ie cellulose.
This thread is about today and the mandate by obama to push the level of corn based by another 33% more then E10, this is solely done for his farm worker, illegal alien buddies and unions to harvest corn as it has the highest profit margin and increases the illegal alien farm worker head count.
In the end we will pay a lot more for this junk fuel when at the same time the Ahole obama is preventing us to drill for oil or convert coal or natural gas but yet allows Canada, England, Dutch and others to sit off our coasts and steal our oil and then sell back for a huge profit.
I've got 3 kids, how many do you have?None? Thank God almighty.+Hanzo+
You missed it. E15 was to take effect this last January but got a delay and now is slated for this coming June.
Yes not only does use of E85 void car warranty but also nameplates state even using E10/E15 will cause bad effects and no warranty for that damage.
The failures of using ethanol even at just 10% is huge if doing a internet search on just one of the lean DTC error codes (P0171) of just one search engine is about 393,000 for p0171
That is 400,000 reasons to show Dan knows zip about what he claims he does.
All this while we, the Saudi Arabia of Natural Gas, won't use it for transportation.
Aside from the idea that turning FOOD into fuel is, IMO, just wrong when people are starving in the world… what happens when we inevitably have a drought? or the Feds decide that some Fish or Shrimp is more important than the Corn Farmers yeild, and takes their water away?
Whole thing is dumb…
One sad aspect is that it actually only "helps" an identifiable group of citizens in Lugar's state while the rest are paying taxes in part to cover the cost of the subsidy. And, I wonder, just how much of that subsidy is "needed" or "eroded" by "Big corn" paying tax dollars for other subsidized products?
Of course the truth is that political manipulation is the real reason for all the damned subsidies in the first place.
Hello?… Limited government?… Can you hear me?… Real America needs you to come back… Soon!
i believe you, after i give you a good beatin you can thank me for helping you overcome your ideological schizophrenia, and general a-holeness
Yeah, I get it.You're a fucking cocksucking coward.Can't even spell turd, you fucking turd.+Hanzo+
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