U.S. Should Not Yield to ‘European Outrage’ over Tanker Deal
by Capitol ConfidentialNorthrop Grumman has announced it will not compete for the contract to build the U.S. Air Force’s new refueling tanker, stating that the specifications of the RFP were unfair. Northrop’s partners in Europe are lashing out at the United States. One French official said this week, “I can assure you that there will be consequences” for the United States. The Euros were planning on using Northrop as the American face of their plane, but the fact remained that most of it would have been built in France and to many observers that seemed like a bad deal for out of work Americans. In fact, EADS/Airbus, who would have actually built the plane Northrop was proposing, was counting on the American taxpayer-funded refueling tanker to help its financial situation.
Meanwhile, an advocacy organization called Build Them Both is urging President Obama to step in “fix” it all. “Build Them Both urges President Obama to step in and – with the stroke of a pen – hire each company to build its proposed new tanker. This will put 100,000 Americans to work, provide the Air Force more tankers more quickly and offer massive taxpayer savings over building only one,” says the group’s spokesperson Carrie Giddins, who is also a Democratic political operative.
Build Them Both, which does not disclose its funders, further argues that the United States should yield to French threats and “European outrage.”
But the “build them both” solution would actually be the worst of all possible ideas. It would, in fact, be a terrible deal for taxpayers. The costs of building two tankers would be astronomical, costing taxpayers more upfront and long term. Designing and building two separate refueling tankers would require two separate sets of specifications. It would also require training two separate groups of pilots and maintenance crews and developing and maintaining distinct resupply networks. Its important to note that Northrop’s partner EADS/Airbus was proposing to build a completely different plane; which would require its own hangars, air base taxiways and landing strips. All of these considerations carry enormous costs.
And of course one cannot forget the principal reason Northrop decided its bid would ultimately be unsuccessful: The jobs it was proposing to create would for the most part have been European – mainly French – jobs. This was confirmed on Wednesday with the release of a new study.
Protectionism is a serious threat to our economic health. But this is not a case of protectionism. Northrop backed our of its deal with EADS/Airbus because they partnership was offering a bad deal, one that would have cost an extraordinary amount or money for little value to U.S. taxpayers.
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147 Comments
Eurotrash upset becasue we wont send them even more of our money, cry me a river.
Go Boeing!! I know how their tankers fly…and I like it!
Obama wants the US to become the land of the fleeced and the home of depraved and selling off our military secrets and whats left of the industrial base is right up his alley.
Giving in to the surrender monkey would be the low point in his already cowardly apology policies but I wont be surprised if he does it.
To hell with Northrup, to hell with EADS, to hell with ALL Euro-peons. This tanker is for the USAF. We should not be dependent on Euro-peons for our military hardware. Boeing will build the tanker in the U.S., Northrup won't. Decision made, no second thoughts!
This whole mess started with Air Force and Boeing officals doing an under the table croked deal.
"Build Them Both, which does not disclose its funders, further argues that the United States should yield to French threats and “European outrage.”
Isn't that……………transparent?
Just remind those frogs that Boeing is a private company and it supports itself whereas their EADS is owned and subsidized by several governments–their bid prices are artificial.
i suppose nobody wins in this argument. the military has always flown the low bidder. and if the northup bid was lower, and it met the specs, wouldn't the taxpayers benefit? there is no superduper top secrets to flying a gas can around, it is not like a fighter, or a bomber, its a flying can of gas. now if the story is true about the extra costs of different new hangers, and altering current runways, and the boeing bid did not require this, then it was not the low bid. but if americans want to build things for other countries, we need to fairly open our bidding proces to them. we can't ask to sell to them, and not expect them to want to sell stuff to us, like toys shoes and flying gas cans.
Yep, a few bad apples…
All military equipment should be built in the United States by U.S. owned companies.
Somebody needs to tell the Eurotrash that we don't have any spare cash. We already rebuilt them, after World War II. In the most recent interim, we've just sent all of our spare cash to Haiti.
Somebody further needs to tell me why building these tankers will employ 100,000 people? Jesus H. Christ, do UNION hands work that slow? I'd be willin to bet there are 99,950 supervisors and fifty laborers.
What is "Build Them Both" and why should the American people care one iota what it wants?
I have a real problem with any European company supplying parts for or building any military aircraft which will be flown by American pilots. How many of those companies will hire agents of Islam which would do anything to sabotage the building in order to cause American lives. Boeing will not have that problem as the military would not allow it.
There was a TV show in the UK called Eurotrash…I know it's off topic but it reminded me of it.
Well, we certainly need to hang on to expensive military projects since we are heading in to a worldwide depression…… Great plan. Our governement isn't even stopping people walking in to this country and you want to hang on to this group of elitists who want to fly expensive planes around the world and bomb people (far more cowardly than suicide bombing IMO.) This isn't about YOUR security or anyone reading this – this it about the elites as they implement global feudalism.
Why not all equipment? I'm game.
Build them Both.
Here is their website:
http://buildthemboth.com/
I just emailed them. We'll wait for the respnse………………………………………….
Meanwhile, as we speak, I'm watching Cavuto Business, and it appears the White House is imploding as we speak. Offering a job to Stesak to drop out of the race………..
I had just returned fro an over night flight from Gatwick to Atlanta coming home from Europe last summer and I found myself on the down escalator behind the Captain of the Airbus which I had flown in on. I said "hello" and asked him which aircraft he prefered, Airbus or a Boeing and he EMPHATICALLY prefered the Boeing widebodies.
Air France had just lost an Airbus over the Atlantic and he gave me a list of reasons why he'd rather fly Boeing aircraft.
That's good enough for me.
Tell the Frogs that America needs the very best military equipment in order to bail their sorry asses out!
Do a little research and find out how much of the Boeing tanker will be built overseas, including China.
"One French official said this week, I can assure you there will be consequences" for the US.
Gee them frenchies sure know how to put cha in yur palce, don't they. Whatever duuuuude!
Read an article awhile back, think it was by Jed Babbin, comparing the two planes. Based on intereviews with the men and women who will depend on these tankers, Boeing won hands down. As I recall, the most critical point was the weight of each plane, the Northrup airbus being substantially heavier that the Boeing, would make it too heavy to land at a large number of critical airbases, thereby reducing fighter and bomber air coverage. Don't buy a horse when you need a mule.
Funny thing is that the re specification is a disappointment to Boeing for precisely the reason above – there is no competition from Airbus. They were hoping to compete and win based on design rather than being the only player for this contract…
Boeing will build almost 1/2 of the components overseas and ship to US for assembly. Just about the same as the Northrup/EADS tanker which would have been assembled in a new plant in Mobile, AL, which the last time I checked was in the US.
"hang on to this group of elitists who want to fly expensive planes around the world and bomb people (far more cowardly than suicide bombing IMO.)"—Who are you refering to?
We must have been on their site at the same time. I was polite, but not kind.
Wow, broken clocks ARE right every once in a while.
If it ain't Boeing I ain't Going!
I was real polite, and very kind.
You can catch more flies with honey…………
I asked them if they were a registered 501(c)3 organization, and would my donations be tax deductable, and if not, exactly who was funding them.
If they do not answer, they are in a trap.
It's the transparency thingey, dontchaknow?
Unfair?
Hugh Ambrose the author of the book, The
Pacific “Hell Was An Ocean Away” was on Imus This Morning. Seems the
Author of the book, that the series that Tom Hanks has been humping
doesn’t agree with Mr Hanks, comment, the reason we wanted to annihilate
the Japanese is because they were different. You can watch Hugh Ambrose on Fox Business Network
Video HERE..
http://youhavetobethistalltogoonthisride.blogspot...
I'd love to see how members of congress are lining up on this one. It should be pretty easy to determine who is pulling the strings and who has sold out again.
I asked them if the 100,000 jobs were created or saved and to share with me exactly how they came up with the numbers.
As I see it, Airbus has token airplane factories in the US, just to be able to have lobyists in the US go talk to congress and state leaders….it's politics through and through.
There is nothing cowardly about flying a bomber on a mission for my country and NOTHING about it that is even remotely equivilent to a suicide bomber.
I'm continually amazed by some of the stupid shit you write here.
The U.S. tanker fleet dates to 1956, almost as old as your underwear. We need tankers and we need them now and they need to be built in the U.S. by highly skilled American workers.
For a THIRD time….
The bored international bankers maybe?They wage war just for fun…
Important VIRUS alert.
I posted the link to the Build the Both website above, and can't delete it because there are answers to my post. There is SOMETHING wrong with their website.
It either has a virus, or malwate or some funky problem. Perhaps they are "data mining". In any event, my computer locked up three times and I had to restart it.
Don't reckon some rich folks are playing games, do ya?
That's actually true and not that surprising. Like every car we buy, many foreign built components.
If it’s anything that’ll screw us be assured he’ll do it. He despises us and the feeling is mutural. Roll on 2012 if we have a country left.
I just used that site to urge my congressmen not to build them both, and now it says I signed their petition. Sneaky little bastards…
Businesses are becoming increasingly globalized. It would be extremely difficult to actually buy truly all-American made stuff anymore. What we need are for conditions within this country to become more conducive to manufacturing again.
"highly skilled American(union) workers"
Sorry but it's true
We need their physical address. James O'Keefe needs to visit them with a handy cam……….
One can hope they offer one too many sweetheart bribes to the wrong people.
Agreed. 40 years from now Europe as a whole will be dominated by Islam. Who wants are military dependent on European countries in that scenario?
No doubt they would play games. For some reason, it almost smells like the unions are involved.
Protectionism is one of the key factors that caused and prolonged the Great Depression.
International trade is here to stay, like it or not. The populist notion of buying only products made inside one country just doesn't work. The US did extremely well in foreign trade during the 50s and 60s, but we got sloppy and complacent, plus unionism drove out our manufacturing base.
If we are to survive, we must actually get better at world trade. Retreating from it is a death sentence.
This is the most corrupt and unethical Administration and Congress in the history of the USA.
It smells so much of UNIONS that it reeks. I've crawled all over their website, and there is nothing to indicate who they are. Everything is generic. i think this is a real story. It needs to grow legs. It would be nice to tie it to Herr Andy Schtern and the SEIU.
Somebody, quick, find that O'keefe kid…………..
"The Boeing NewGen Tanker will be safe and survivable in combat, will save the American taxpayer $10 billion in fuel costs over its 40-year life, and is American designed and built. "
first link. I'd post it, but you're just a guest and probably trolling, anyway.
Anyone, is it possible the parts are being machined in cheaper countries and Boeing is claiming "American Built" at the final assembly stage?
"Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation." – George Washington
"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible." – George Washington
They do so for money and power. Nothing funny about it. This is not arguable. Bankers supported the Bolsheviks. You probably have no clue.
You sound like Bill Maher, or Sen. Rockefeller. Shame on you. Really? Suicide bombing innocent civilians who not only can't fight effectively back, but weren't expecting to have to that day, is less cowardly than attacking an enemy who can, and is prepared? You are despicable. you are complaining about an imaginary "global feudalism" that we are supposedly implementing under the control of "elites", while those who would implement it in their areas of the world mouth the same empty platitudes. I don't care where you go, just go away.
Haven't we out-sourced enough of our posterity? Screw the EU!
I dont think foreign companies building are military is a good idea.
Bombing is bombing. What form of triggering mechanism is used is about as irrelevant as you can get so I don't see the difference.
We need tankers and we need them now and they need to be built in the U.S. by highly skilled American workers.
Despite your bluster the thread that can be pulled to unravel your whole worldview is right there exposed. Regardless of this case, the overwhelming trend is for things NOT to be made by American workers. Why is this being done? Well, James, the forest that you are unable to see for the trees is this: the threat that is real is so much more insidious than the imaginary threat you see that even if shown the real one your mind would flip back to the imaginary one. Read "None Dare Call it Treason."
If the Obamunists have their way, radical Islam will only increase in power and influence world-wide.
MADE IN THE U.S.A.
End of argument
Ya, the unions have it tied up, that's for sure.
THAT WAS ONCE THE POLICY.
Build them Both.
Lets all take a closer look:
http://iam751.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/union-asks...
This new “Build Them Both” coalition purports to be a grass-roots coalition of concerned citizens who only want what’s best for the Air Force. But let’s be real:
contd:
•They’ve hired a high-profile political operative to lead their D.C. lobbying efforts;
•They’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars on slick advertisements targeted to capture the attention of federal government decision-makers;
•Their well-polished campaign has sprung up overnight, signaling that someone has poured a lot of money into it, but they’ve yet to disclose who is paying for it.
Clearly, these kinds of moves suggest that the “concerned citizens” behind the “Build Them Both” campaign aren’t well-meaning members of the Peoria, Ill., PTA, or even the Peoria, Ariz., Chamber of Commerce — the kind of community activists who might organize an e-mail campaign to lobby their representatives in Congress. Rather than being truly grass roots, this is “astroturf,” a big-money corporate lobbying effort thinly disguised as a spontaneous public groundswell.
IT STINKS!
Why do you contradict yourself? First you claim "more cowardly than suicide bombing" then you say "What form of triggering mechanism is used is about as irrelevant as you can get"
Just to stay on topic of this article, tankers do not bomb people. They do not carry bombs.
I think someone dropped a bomb in your fruitjuice.
Dassey – "the forest that you are unable to see for the trees is this: the threat that is real is so much more insidious than the imaginary threat you see that even if shown the real one your mind would flip back to the imaginary one."
What kind of lunatic bilge is that? —————->>> Hey Agent "0013" your shoe phone is ringing!
"Bombing is bombing. What form of triggering mechanism is used is about as irrelevant as you can get so I don't see the difference."
The difference is obvious, and it's offensive – as usual – to point out an obviously obvious and easy to see distinction. (There you go, a "sentence" in Dassey style")
You're clearly a confused lunatic. Are you sure it isn't the "evil Jews"? Where's Fonz, your "blood brother"?
Don't presume anything concerning my "worldview". Stick to a more elementary conspiracy loon theory – it suits your "worldview" much better.
Hey YOUR SHOE IS STILL RINGING – answer it!
Every time I see a B-52 blot out the sun I remember how old it was when I first joined the Air Force. I retired but the Buff didn't. GO BOEING!
This guy is a neo-Nazi lunatic who is laying low with the Nazi stuff today. That kind of bilge is fairly typical.
He take "Black Sabbath" lyrics from 1970 literally…"Oh LordYa!"
Hey KC – Dhassel is a neo-Nazi bonehead. I usually ignore him but not on this. Lunatic fringe, "world conspiracy", tin-foil mad hatter type.
it's a UNION job: 800 VP's, 100 supervisors, 100 technicians, 45,000 broom pushers and 45,000 union officials.
I know, I try to feed him a few truth vitamins now and again, but all he wants to do is bite the fingers. Nutter!
Not everything he says is all garbage, he occasionally makes sense, but then he throws in either his "hate the Joooes" stuff or that outlandish crap about bombers.
We just buried my next door neighbor, 44 missions over Nazi controlled Germany flying out of Italy into southern Germany, Romania – mid 1944 to end of the war. Top turret and radio man.
Those men had balls like basketballs and for an intenet punk to disparage any of them is sickening.
So leave. If you find another country more attractive then go there and STFU. If you're going to complain about your countries policies, isn't it nice to be able to do so and stay alive? Maybe you should move to Mr, Chavez's neck of the woods or maybe Russia.
I've know people like you my whole life. Shoot your mouth off anonymously and then duck tail and run when the light hits you.
No matter, we all know you for the mommas boy coward you are and we long ago stopped putting in value in what you say.
Kudos C L, are you sure you aren't Clark Kent, fighting for justice & the American Way.
You sure know how to sniff out a rat. Happy Birthday!
Am I the only one who remembers that the only reason that their even was an RFP in the first place was that Boeing was caught trying to overbill the American Tax pays billions of dollars and that the Boeing CEO was fired and than another executive as well as a U.S. Airforce officer went to prison? How badly are people willing to get screwed as long as it isn't by a Frenchman?
Also as an aside , Boeing has started sourcing alot of it's sub-assemblies from overseas. The only reason the 767 is "Made in the USA " is because it's a 30 year old design. The 787, it's new replacement is made mostly in Japan and Europe and only assembled in Washington…..
He defied the odds twice over by coming back home
….
Read it and weep yanquis. Deadline will be extended so that EADS can bid the plane the AF really wants. Here come the Bus boys. ha ha ha
More balls than brains, obviously, to go kill Whites to serve the Jew bankers and the Soviet Union.
Does this mean people shouldn't complain about Obama's healthcare plan anymore?
Just STFU and accept it?
I can't agree with your logic.
Dude. We rely heavily on air power for a good reason. and it's not just to "bomb people." This isn't some new unneeded pork project. It's about keeping our planes in the air. Literally. Refueling has more to do with intercontinental transport planes than it does bombers.
What's with comparing our bomber pilots to suicide bombers? Whether one supports a particular US government military action or not, find me an example of a bombing mission we have ever initiated to intentionally murder "infidel" women and children.
Isn't it cowardly to bomb innocent shepherds in Afghanistan that can't fight back?
Wow. That is pretty amazing .
Frankly I do not give a damn what they think. Screw them. I think we should bring all of our military back from every base around the world unless we have an active battle there. Why in hell do we still have troops in Germany, Japan, South Korea and all of the other damn places? It is crazy and only supports their economies at the cost of ours. Let the bastards fend for themselves.
are military?
I seems people have their facts wrong on this issue. The EADS tankers were to be built right here in the USA by American workers. How do I know? Because I live in the very city in which they were to be constructed, Mobile, Alabama. Mobile has had a long history with the military. The Brookley complex, formerly known as Brookley Air Force Base was the largest of its kind before its closing. The origins of the Port City becoming one of the world’s premier centers for aircraft design and assembly reach back 115 years.The military buildup prior to and during World War II caused US Army to expand across the country, including south. In 1938, the US Army Air Corps bought the Bates Field municipal airport and established the Brookley Army Air Field, re-named to Brookley Air Force Base in 1948.The Army chose Brookley primarily because of its waterfront location and flying-suitable weather conditions. The Base served two purposes: a fighter overhaul and maintenance base, and an Air Material Command supplying the Air Force bases around the world. To fulfill its mission, the Army built hangars, large warehouses, its own cargo plane fleet, and took advantage of the existing Arlington Point dock. The dock’s function was to allow ocean-going vessels to offload aircraft and transport them to the repair facilities within Brookley without using public roads. Repaired aircraft then flew back into service.
During the war, the Brookley Army Air Field became Mobile’s largest employer, with about 17,000 skilled civilians capable of performing delicate work with fragile instruments and machinery. In 1944, the Army decided to take advantage of Brookley’s large, skilled workforce for its top-secret “Ivory Soap” project to hasten victory in the Pacific. The project required 24 large vessels to be re-modeled into Aircraft Repair and Maintenance Units that had to be able to accommodate B-29 bombers, P-51s bombers’ protectors, R-4B Sikorsky helicopters, and amphibious vehicles. The Air Force delivered all 24 vessels to Mobile, Alabama in spring 1944 to start remodeling. Some 5,000 men underwent a complex training process that prepared them to rebuild the vessels and operate them once on the water. By the end of the year, the vessels departed Mobile.
One of the keys to Allied victory in Europe was the Norden Bomb Sight, which enabled bomber squadrons to target Germany’s war-making industry and infrastructure much more accurately. The military repaired and calibrated the bombsights at Brookley in a secret facility, still standing and in use today. After the war, Brookley continued to operate as an Air Material Command. By the 1960s, Brookley base had nearly 13,000 employees. Rumors about closing Brookley Air Force Base started to surface in early 1960s. The Secretary of Defense announced its closure in 1964, widely believed to be President Lyndon Johnson’s retaliation for Alabama voting for his opponent Barry Goldwater in the 1964 presidential elections. When Brookley closed officially in June 1969, nearly 10% of the local workforce lost their jobs. This was the largest base closure in history.
In 2003, Boeing identified Brookley as a finalist in its search for a site to assemble the new 787, using the system pioneered for the MD-12. A $3.2 billion incentive from Washington State combined with political and industrial scandals caused Boeing to cancel the competition and stay in the Seattle area.
In 2004, Boeing again chose Brookley as a finalist in a search for a site for a Vought/Alenia joint venture to assemble 787 fuselage sections. After several changes in the project’s make-up, the Mobile Airport Authority withdrew from the competition.
In June 2005, EADS North America chose the Brookley Complex to build an assembly facility for the proposed KC-30 aerial refueling tanker aircraft for the U.S. Air Force, should they win the contract. Northrop Grumman became the prime contractor on the project and chose Brookley for its KC-30 facility as well. EADS-NA also selected Brookley to build an Airbus Engineering Center where engineers will help design the new Airbus A350 XWB aircraft.
Just a little info for you to get your facts straight.
The U.S. should not yield to European outrage about much of anything these days!
Exactly.
Do you hate men?
Normally I don't bother airline pilots but the Air France Airbus had gone down while I was in Rome and it was a big deal in France while I was, as they searched for the "black box" and so forth.
A while had gone by before I was flying home and the opprotunity "presented itself". The pilot was a Delta guy, obviously an American, so I figured "what the heck".
I'd bet the guy was an ex-military pilot.
Shut up – Nazi.
Ya, he could have rotated at 25 missions but as 1944 came to a close Luftwaffe fighters were getting rarer by the day. They were running out of fuel and pilots and planes by tthen. Still just flying there and back with a bomb load is gutsy. Great men – great courage.
"innocent shepherds" laying down IED's and packing AK – 47's.
Does al Qaeda PAY you to propagandize or do you serve Allah for free?
Ya, ragheads setting up bobby traps and IED's to KILL Americans.
I thought the proper terminology was "little sheet heads". Ya know… Randy is a little Sheet-Head.
"Where's Fonz, your "blood brother"?"
I believe that part of his personality is currently tied up with finding Zionist hidden messages in the remaining Fruit Loops floating in his cereal bowl.
Nothing is as impressive as a wing of Buffs taking off on a mission.
They project "ass kick" like nothing else. Some of those airframes are over 50 years old. That's getting bang for the buck. Twerp myopics don't see that side of aircraft aquistion and service, just raw numbers that they don't understand.
What I find the most outrageous about this whole Boeing = Made in the USA argument (besides it being mostly a lie) is that You know if these Boeing execs had a shot at selling 50 of these tankers to the British and French Airforces, they'd be scrambling to use EDS, BAE Airbus and any other European firm they could as sub-contractors to seal the deal, and these same congressmen who are pounding the table with their "made in the USA" faux patriotism would be jetting off to the Paris airshow on Boeing's dime and talking about how important it is to "work cooperativly with our NATO allies"
Hey Boeing, next time when you have a no-bid sweetheat contract, only screw us a little bit, you won't get caught and you wont have to suffer the indignity of having to bit for a contraact ever again.
Screw the Euros! 'nuff said.
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