EPA Set to Give Ethanol a Big Boost?
by Capitol ConfidentialIn the midst of a drive by Washington’s powerful ethanol lobby to expand what critics often deride as an artificially created, and government aided and promoted market for “fuel made from food,” the top administrator from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Wednesday testified before the Senate Interior and Environment Appropriations Subcommittee, telling lawmakers the agency will make a final determination late summer on allowing higher levels of ethanol to be blended into gasoline.
The ethanol industry is currently petitioning the EPA for a waiver to increase ethanol blends in gasoline from 10 percent to 15 percent, in order to create a larger market–and artificial demand–for the fuel source.
Administrator Lisa Jackson said the agency’s decision awaits completion of Department of Energy (DOE) tests on ethanol—namely, how higher ethanol blends might adversely affect vehicle engines, a long-running concern of automakers and the marine leisure industry, among others—which she expects to receive by May. “We expect that once we get that additional data, and it will be publicly available, the EPA will be in a position to move toward a final decision on the waiver, late summer in the time period,” Jackson said in response to a line of questioning by ethanol booster Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska.
Co-chair of Ethanol Across America, Nelson recently launched a campaign to browbeat the EPA by offering an amendment to an EPA appropriations bill demanding higher ethanol blends. The amendment failed, but sources say that Nelson and fellow proponents of ethanol remain committed to expanding use of the fuel. This is despite frequent criticisms of ethanol from across the philosophical spectrum: Fiscal conservatives tend to regard ethanol as a boondoggle tying together the worst practices of pork-barreling and interference with the free market; progressives and some social conservatives have criticized ethanol as environmentally unfriendly, with some also pointing to the impact that using food to produce fuel has on global food prices, and thus hunger and malnutrition in poorer countries.
Once hailed as the “fuel of the future” by Henry Ford in the 1920s, ethanol opponents say that the market has roundly rejected ethanol as a viable fuel source, and emphasize that it is not a new product. Fewer than 2 percent of all refueling stations in the United States currently offer ethanol, despite extensive government subsidies aimed at its production (a 1998 report by the Department of Agriculture (USDA) observed that “the fuel-ethanol industry was created by a mix of Federal and State subsidies, loan programs and incentives. It continues to depend on Federal and State subsidies”).
One critic contacted by Capitol Confidential says that if EPA grants the waiver, it will constitute little more than further de facto federal welfare for the ethanol industry. Another critic notes that it could also result in a problem for the administration if, as some fear, the warranties of hundreds of millions of cars were voided.
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Ok folks,
"In the midst of a drive by Washington’s powerful ethanol lobby to expand what critics often deride as an artificially created, and government aided and promoted market for “fuel made from food,” the top administrator from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Wednesday testified before the Senate Interior and Environment Appropriations Subcommittee, telling lawmakers the agency will make a final determination late summer on allowing higher levels of ethanol to be blended into gasoline."
I'll go way out on a limb and put my neck on the chopping block, thereby alienating all my friends in the business world, and agricultural industry. Ethanol is a SCAM, and everyone knows it. it is corporate welfare, and graft. Just the fact that Ben nelson is at the table should tell you that. Stop and think just how much corn Nebraska grows. Do you all smell another "Cornhusker Kickback"? Brace yourselves. It is a scam, and a joke. Everyone on the inside knows it.
Not only that, CL, but costs for basic food staples in countries that IMPORT food from the USA has been going UP for years. Now there is a major situation across the world where the poor can't even afford the poorest of foods. Corn, rice, etc have all risen significantly in price.
So, the left's solution is to waste more food on fuel? Gee, sounds like Maggie Sanger's bunch alright.
Just friggin great. I have already lost gas mileage and performance because of this crap being put in the fuel. Every day another load of crap from the idiots in DC. I am getting ready to go there and kick ass. How much can we take before we blow? There would be people from DC laying in the streets already if they tried this on the WW11 generation.
Corn futures thru the roof? Popcorn $10 a microwave bag? Salsa futures down?
Oh shyte I have to go out and stock up on my beloved Bourbon…..pronto!
Four words:
Drill Here. Drill Now!
Cowboy you are right on all counts, all it does is drive up both the cost of fuel and the cost of corn.
There is no proven efficiency at all.
Ethanol is a scam. First, alcohol (ethanol) is extremely hard in internal engine components. It wears your motor out quicker, costing more in repairs over the life of the vehicle, even if it is a 'flex-fuel' vehicle. Flex-fuel only denotes the fact it can run on E85. That's 85% ethanol to 15% gas, for you folks who aren't in the know…
Second, and most importantly, the Stoichometric ratio for gasoline is 14.7:1. Meaning you need at least 1 part fuel to 14.7 parts air to create combustion. Ethanol sits at a lowly 9:1. Meaning you need 1 part ethanol to 9 parts air.
Simply put, ethanol is more than 50% less efficient as a combustible fuel than gasoline is, requiring far more to travel the same distance.
Ethanol has been a SCAM from the get go.
Drives up price of corn, artificially thanks to gov't meddling. How economically stupid can people be?
This in turn drives up cost of livestock, etc. as well as ANY product that uses corn, which is a LOT of products and industries.
AND, the evidence is that Ethanol DECREASES your mpg. So you use MORE gas!
Freakonomics from and for the corrupt.
Hucksters, cheats and liars. Ethanol is a scam on so many levels. And the EPA is just one more political arm of this subversive administration.
For another example of governmental subversion, check out this story on the "green jobs" scam from PJ Media:
BREAKING: Released Emails Show Wind Lobby, Soros Group Helped with White House PR (PJM Exclusive)
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-released-em...
Ben Nelson, the Nebraska Kernel is at it again. The 'ethanol' lobby will surely keep his spirits up.
Are they nuts? There are a lot of problems and way to expensive.
Yes, setting the stage for a "Tortilla Revolution".
Waste of perfectly decent booze if you ask me.
Big Foot, Elvis lives, moonlanding faked, President Ron Paul and yes…….. every car powered by ethanol!
Food for fuel sounds like a U.N. program, and we know how they end up.
or a protest outside of the "rice-capades"
It sure seems pretty obvious that they can't afford to operate without the tax credit.
More ethanol to evaporate into thin air, our loving/nurturing government at work again!! I personally avoid any pumps labeled "May contain 10% ethanol", fuel mileage decreases with purchases from them!!! I guess it fits with the times we live in, huge percentages of the paycheck also evaporate, before the envelope is ever opened!!! One thing about it though, we have a BIG FAT GOVERNMENT, to leech off of every aspect of life, it is where the evaporated wealth ascends to!!!
I used ti be able to cite this chapter and verse. I no longer can, but perhaps a good researcher here can find it. Ethanol goes back to the EPA. Remember years back, when all the gas stations had to replace their tanks with new ones, because fuel had contaminated soils? At that time it was legislated that ethanol had to be blended with gasoline from that point further, as it enabled a quicker cleanup, due to the molecular structure, and chain.
Ethanol, in it's simplest form, is nothing more than grain alcohol. Every drunk knows what that is.
It takes a lot of oil and water to produce a gallon of ethanol. It's a bad idea.
I am about to install a third fuel pump in my car. I am not alone in shelling out almost a grand tp replace that little SOB. And, speaking od SOB's the EPA and Senator Nelson are working hard to spend our tax money on a failed ethanol program that the EPA admits causes vehicles to lose fuel economy.
Also on the Brazilian model, they are now importing gasoline and they are having difficulty with their ethanol as the price of sugar has increased. Commodity price fluctuations demand that we drill here, now, and everywhere we have found reserves but first, the only way to achieve this is a change in government culture.
Not only is ethanol a scam, the only way it is feasible, is through the government subsidies, and tax breaks provided by the government for investors. The Tax Code at its finest…………
Not sure it is true but I have repeatedly heard that Ethanol produce more CO2 then gas
http://lubinlib.typepad.com/index/2008/02/does-co...
http://www.intota.com/docs/ethanol-pollution.asp
Not sure it is true but I have repeatedly heard that Ethanol produce more CO2 then gas
http://lubinlib.typepad.com/index/2008/02/does-co...
http://www.intota.com/docs/ethanol-pollution.asp
I'm starting to think these people in Washington are smoking some really bad stuff. Every attempt to do anything reminds me of an Laurel and Hardy episode acting like nit wits.
Ohhhhh that's bad man……….
Thanks John, a bit of reading but worth it. Obama is a puppet and stuff like this will divulge the puppeteers!
Actually, every car in the country is running on a 10% ethanol blend. There is no more pure gasoline anymore.
Based on the link above, I can't wait for Chris Horner to blow this wide open. Barry Soetoro is in bed with the unions AND the lobbyists and is shaping US domestic policy on how it benefits his big money donors. He needs to be investigated as he does not have the best interests of the country at heart. I've never seen such political thuggery at work since the days of Clinton and compared to Obamao, the Slickster looks like an amateur.
Remember Mark, it's not the crime that gets you, it's the cover up.
Damn, the gas prices are already $2.60 here and in some states over $3. If things aren't bad enough……
Well, Xavier, tell me this. Ethanol is produced mainly by corn. Yes there are studies to try using algae, etc, but the majority comes from corn. We NEED food to survive. Can you eat oil? Gas? Plastic? Diesel? No? well, maybe oil has it's place. So does corn. On the dinner table. You want to use ethanol to power cars, fine. I'll send you a 55 gal drum of crude, as food stores for the winter. Eat that.
Yeah, I have a lot of faith in Chris Horner. We should all stay tuned.
i'll drink to that
Also, remember how CA used to blend MPTE with fuel, supposedly for better emissions? MPTE was found to cause horrific damage to fish and water-borne vegetation. They used it for years, and due to their snobbery, caused more harm than good.
The road to hell is paved with what again?
sorta like amtrak
i'll drink to that too
i'm not gonna drink to that
Have a round on me too.
One of these days I will get my hands on Pappy Van Winkle 20yr old, the 23yr old is out of my price range!
Hmmm Ask the starving people in Africa whose plight has worsened do to the rise cost of corn.
Here is a quote from 2008 but I bet things are not any better
The United States, often called the breadbasket of the world, finds its grain silos as empty as the 1970’s, when the Soviet Union bought most of its reserves.
So much for letting science back into the White House.
Hmmm Ask the starving people in Africa whose plight has worsened do to the rising cost of corn.
Here is a quote from 2008 but I bet things are not any better
The United States, often called the breadbasket of the world, finds its grain silos as empty as the 1970’s, when the Soviet Union bought most of its reserves.
My sentiments exactly.
Yeah and i still see suckers buying DryGas, go figure.
A) We have not hit peak oil in case you can't read
B) We can reduce importation of oil, but the Obama administration and various state government are blocking both existing leases and preventing new ones on known oil reserves.
C) The Obama administration placed a moratorium on oil shale research. They've lifted it slightly, but not enough.
D) Ethanol production is driving up the cost of food–not luxury food, but basic food.
E) I have no problem of removing any remaining federal subsidies on oil IF the federal government also gets out of the way of production, especially in the west.
…………………….If we could just burn bovine fecal matter in our autos DC would provide an unlimited renewable fuel source!
Pretty short of that 100% target that would "teach them Aaaaarabs a thing or two" set in the 70's.
Funny…….. I sense the presence of Paul Ehrlich in the room.
never been a big drinker(except during my navy days)
i'm more of a Jim Beam type and couldnt tell you
who Pappy Van Winkle is but i will keep my eyes open
and if i ever have the occasion, I will try a shot
For every percentage increase in ethanol, my wife's car drops mileage by the same amount. Not only do we need to buy proportionately more gasohol, we pay more per gallon for the privilege. Why should I be transferring my wealth to already rich corn farmers?
That or crack addicts chasing another rock
Thankfully, I think your neck is safe.
Do they not know the cost of getting the corn to market for this ?? Do they not realize the globla impact and the energy it’s costing ????
Drill baby drill
MY Navy days-I could only afford Old Crowe & Ten High…I needed quantity not quality.
hey Cowboy
You are wrong on all counts! It is not SCAM in any way. IT IS A SOURCE of ENERGY. However, It is a very variable and totally unreliable source of energy just like wind or photovoltaics! Any person, government, or industry who are reliant on variable sources are at risk due to the 'variable' cost $$$$. Right now any of these sources are far more expensive than "Dependable – COAL! CRUDE! METHANE!" which will become increasingly expensive and will almost disappear and be replaced with (Nuclear?) in this century!
Ever hear of the 'dust bowl'? Anyone wanna guess what the output of ethanol due to wheat or corn was during that era? We are probably arguing what the Myan civizalization argued!
Yeah, AGW! (smile).
Vote.
Yeah lets use our food supply for fuel……..get ready for food prices to skyrocket AGAIN. this is how government causes inflation. then again they don't count food or fuel in the CPI, soooo……….
Let's use food as a fuel. That way we can add a few steps to energy production ( WITH LOTS OF MORE STEPS FOR TAXES) and buy off a few more states.
Another concern, it could contribute to higher whiskey prices.
With all due respect, I beg to differ with you. It is a scam.
I might not know much about pretty girls or politics, but I do know about the energy industry and the agricultural industry. I even invested in a couple large ethanol deals going back four, and three years ago respectively. I knew it was a scam going into it. The only reason I did, was the way I was structured in my tax base, and it was advantageous to me. The Tax Code was the only reason the deal worked.
Ethanol doubled, then tripled the price of corn. Farmers had a windfall, and then the price of corn cratered and everyone went broke. Supply and demand. I follow the ag markets, and the oil markets on an hourly basis, dependent upon where I am postured throughout the day.
sermon contd:
I understand hydrocarbons; I understand methane, and crude. I have drilled, owned and operated close to 1,000 wells over the course of 35 years, all for my own account. i have owned and operated coal mines, both deep, strip, and mountaintop removal.
Don't lecture me about nuclear. That is an unviable resource. For every bbl of crude and mcf of gas taken off the market, that would have to be replaced with uranium, thereby creating an uranium shortage. You will replace one commodity, with another. What is more expensive to mine, coal, or uranium………………….?
Right now, for anyone interested, "The World Without Oil" is beginning at Nat Geo Channel. A good show.
Low octane inefficient fuel is all it is. Why are we still kicking this horse(he's dead)? We have tons of resources in this country. We have oil (about 200 years worth) lots of coal, nuclear power, natural gas and of course wood. By trying to use crops for fuel all were gonna accomplish is to drive up the cost of food.
I would love to see someone figure out how to harness hydrogen fuel SAFELY. I Know right now thats the main concern with it as it should be (the storage tanks/gas tanks). But if it wont work were in no rush we have plenty of resources. I'm sure in the next 200 years someone will figure something out.
Xavier,
every dollar of subsidy for ethanol is borrowed from China or Japan and will have to be paid back by our children or grandchildren.
Additionally, ethanol is a hydrophilic or water loving hydrocarbon that will absorb water and at each stage of its distribution will become more and more of a steam generating fuel that will scour and evaporate the metal of the cylinder walls and heads, until it destroys the engines that uses it as a fuel.
"The debate is over ethanol is a scam. Everyone who is smart knows this. But you are just too stupid to understand." It sounds a lot like the argument for global warming. Go read a book. I suggest Alcohol Can be a Gas by Dave Blume.
The only problem with "biofuel" is that there is no "petrofood."
Food is of higher value to humans than fuel – you can't really drive your car to the market without fuel, but without food you won't live too long. Why are we paying more taxes to turn what should feed humans in to what could be replaced with petrochemicals? Because farmers like it (higher market prices for crops), and there is a lie told that it is better for the environment. Perhaps if you compare it to nuclear waste…
Subsidized food burning is a bad idea. Ya think?
We have a local ethanol plant that produces 100 million gallons per year. The blender credit alone for this plant is $45 million per year. The plant employs about 25 people. You do the math.
You are SOOOOOOOOOOO right!!!!!
I have read it, and have followed his work. He is of the "Mother Earth News" touchey-feeley subsistence agriculture genre.
You have it figured out. Another "Inconvienent Truth".
Ethanol has damaged/destroyed hundreds of thousands of engines. I hate lawsuits but it’s time for a monster class action suit against these idiots. You like water in your fuel tank, ethanol automatically puts it there and on vented fuel systems it draws more moisture.
Would you trade an extra $5 per bottle of burbon to never need oil from of the Middle East? I would. E-40 (40% ethanol) would do it.
Further, here is your boy Blumes bio.
As I said, Mother Earth News, Non-Profits,an idealist, blah, blah, blah. He'd be better suited being a CONsultant for Algore. He has no credability in my world, although I'm sure his peer reviewed science is settled.
If you'd study Blumes bio, he is one of those Gaia worshipping goobers. A tenured academic, an idealist, telling the world how to live. Not to bash you, or your man Blume, but he is an idealist. There is nothing he could tell me that would be of any interest, or real world relevance, although I wholeheartedly believe he could tell me where to get the best dope in Northern California……..
We sure could use cornpone's input on this one. I don't know, but you'd think we could solve any and all 'energy problems' by finding some way to compress and store the violent expulsions of flatus so common to Democraps.
B.O. and Congress are already choking us to death with their stench while LiberalLand drowns in fuel.
and I like his/her use of "petrofood".
I don't reckon I've ever heard that. Clever!
beg to differ CL, commodity traders might have had a windfall, but in 07 most grain producers
had basis & cash contracts on 70 to 80%of their production before the price increases. In 08
all our suppliers inflated their prices exponentially so no windfall in 08 either. In fact 08 was
probably the worst year we've had in 30 years. I will however concede that ethanol is a scam,
but it makes those cornbelt Yankee Senators & Representatives feel so good to help their con-
stituents, of course since Cargill & ADM have bought up most of the bankrupt ethanol plants
around here these Congressmen are really helping big bidness. The gubmit gave out low
interest loans to encourage assorted capitalist companies to build these plants, the price of
crude went down, the ethanol producers could not compete at the lower price, went bankrupt,
Carigll, ADM, etc are the ultimate winners. Those new ventures into the production of ethanol
were NOT too big to fail. This is about the third round of this ethanol production scam that I've
witnessed.
Ethanol replaces crude oil imports from the Middle East.
Has anyone heard of the Big Oil scam? Ya you bubba. Ya see, they take your taxes and use the US military to defend the Persian Gulf, to make sure that cheap crude oil hits our shores so we have no incentive to drill our own oil. Ya see, bubba, Alaska gave us 2 million barrels per day, ten years ago, and now it's only 700 thousand barrels of oil per day. Who is now making up the 1.3 million barrel difference? Well our good ole friends from Saudi Arabia! So instead of drilling and killing caribou we are marching along the middle east and killing our brothers to give you that good ole cheap oil you love so much. So Bubbas, let's just give the ole finger to the US corn farmer and rally behind Saudi Arabia, lets pave their streets with gold. Our treasury and economy should go overseas and not stay here. Well, that's what you Bubbas are telling everyone, right? Corn ethanol bad, crude oil good! We only need 20 million barrels a day of crude to keep the economy going. Right now our corn farmers are only giving us 700 thousand barrels per day and they just really got started three years ago. But hell, lets make farmers stop just like the enviros made the US crude oil industry stop drilling in ANWR. Hell, we always have our friends in Saudi Arabia, to rely on, right boys?
viv,………….Feed corn is not consumed by humans, unless run through a steak factory first. Feed
corn is used for ethanol production, however food corn is too expensive for feeding to animals or
making ethanol.
HA! Oops…I should have read yours before posting similar. You beat me to it.
)
"Petrofood" That is kind of what we have in this country. Natural gas fertilizer, Natural gas derived pesticides. Diesel tractors. Diesel delivery trucks. Shipping food from one side of the world to the other. Food in this country does not exist except for petrochemicals. Then everyone blames food price increases on ethanol when fuel prices doubled.
George,………..back in the 70's when the gubmit wanted small scale ethanol production, they
gave out low interest loans to farmers to build on farm small scale plants. The only farmer to
build a plant around my small town was the biggest drunk in the county. Lives about a mile
from me. Traffic picked up approximately 500% around my place, he had lots of visitors.
Dan, I am a corn farmer & we are not rich. We just have a middle class living like most responsible
somewhat educated US citizens. We do however take more risk, than average folks who work for
a living. We bet about 50% of our net worth every year for the privilege of being our own boss. Would
you take that deal, remember if Ma Nature doesn't smile on you, or you make a mistake in judgement
you lose half of your worldly goods. Have you ever heard the expression 'bet the farm'? Well we do it
every year.
I liked his idea that gasoline could use some competition. I tend to agree with Blume that competition is essential in free markets. The sooner American's have an actual choice of auto fuels the better. I wish American's understood this and demanded all cars be flexfueled. Maybe someday even compatable with methanol and butanol.
You rang???? One caution,….. if I may, WWU, please don't use my name in the same sentence as
Democraps.
Hey, who's Bubba?
Ethanol will never replace oil and farmers can grow anything but they shouldn't be govt subsidized. Yes, we need to drill here and we should as we're floating on a large percentage of the world's crude. As for our Arab 'friends' ….they're everyone's problem and there's no 'solving' it. Deal with it already.
HAHA!! I'll watch that from now on.
Ethanol has ruined our tillers, lawn mowers, generators and chainsaws. None of the manufactures of these have designed their product to handle ethanol.
Three of the manufacturers we contacted told us to never use gasoline with ethanol. It will void the warranty!
1. Drill here, drill now, drill often
2. Corn used for ethanol production is not suitable for human consumption, it is feed corn, & as I said
__earlier is not suitable for human consumption, until it has been run through a bovine 'steak factory'. It
__is edible, however it is not palatable as it has been specifically bred to be more efficiently digested
__ by hogs cattle. I wouldn't think 3rd world countries would import feed corn for human consumption.
3. Food grade corn is genetically different than feed corn, requires different cultural practices, maintains
__much higher & less fluctuating price levels, basically because of lower yield possibilities & different
__ harvest requirements.
4. There is not enough corn in your box of corn flakes to cause it to rise in price, even if corn prices tripled
__on the CBOT. Blame the manufacturers when food prices go up, farmers don't benefit from Kellogs
__ price gouging. There is more money in the packaging & transportation than in the grain in your corn
__chex.
5. Ethanol production was a concession to the 'greenies' that Congressmen from primarily conservative
__States & Districts were willing to make, only because of their perception that it would help constituents.
__Low interest loans were made to venture capital groups to build multi-million dollar ethanol manufac-
__turing facilities, about 50% of which were barely finished with construction before crude prices dropped.
__Many of these facilities have sat idle for a year or more. The big grain exporters, monopolies in my op-
__inion, have 'bailed out' many of these new facilities, paying only pennies on the dollar to purchase their
__plants. The US gov may as well pay the money directly to Cargill, ADM & whoever bought Con Agri's
__grain interests. The big three went to Congress about 20 years ago & convinced them they needed
__'export subsidies', so rather than subsidizing the farmer, the gov should pay them directly. You know,
__they would be sure to give the US grain producer his share. Although we do still receive some direct
__subsidy, most of what you folks hear as regards USDA budget is food assistance (food stamps),
__school lunch program, etc.
The problem with the EPA is most everyone that works there are environmental zealots. Or in layman's terms Enviro-Wackos.
Ethanol is really a horrible fuel. I used to own a flex-fuel vehicle. I used E85 in it exactly one time. The performance was so bad, and the fuel economy so bad that there was no way I would ever use it again.
Now the EPA wants to mandate E20 or such in vehicles that should be running on E10 or less. My old 1998 S-10 pickup's manual says do not use ethanol but you can't buy anything but E10 in MN. Can we sue the EPA when seals and gaskets fail?
But both take up crop land. Feed corn means no food corn.
Not to mention Senator Grassley (R) of Iowa. He is big on Ethanol getting subsidies for it.
I'm curious Pablo, tell me, which pesticides are derived from natural gas?
Environmental zealots have actually wormed their way into every Dept in the US Gov. USDA has their
share. Fish & Wildlife Service is lousey with them. Forrest Service too. They're everywhere, they're
everywhere! As farmers we have our own problems with them. In some farm production publications
I have recently seen articles about new rules regarding standing rain water. If you have a small dip
in a field, most of them around here were actually 'buffalo wallows' when the Texas Panhandle was a
'tall grass prairie', the Farm Service Agency will inspect to check for endangered bugs or amphibians.
Since our annual rainfall is less than 20 inches, it may be awhile before they can follow through.
This is corporate welfare for Nebraska farmers, pushed through by the Ag lobby in DC. We could buy unlimited ethanol from Brazil, a more effecient producer than Nebraska. Brazil is on the equator w/ higher levels of sunshine. They grow sugar cane, not corn, & produce more energy/ acre by far. When you fly over Nebraska and see those circular center pivots, well they use lots of water. Farmers in Nebraska & Texas are mining the gound water to produce subsidized corn that the market does not need. Farmers like it because they can buy a new Chevy Silverado every 2 years and send their kids to college to do something else than farm. Tax payers suffer. Consumers suffer, especially those on the bubble of not having enough to eat.
Not in my area mndasher, food corn is an expensive specialty crop that is not feasible. In the
Tx Panhandle we'll go to crops like milo (grain sorghum), wheat,or cotton, with cotton being the
most likely. We gave up cotton production 3 or 4 years ago, after most of the fabric mills moved
from the South, to Mexico, but the final straw was China. Pakistan & India grow quite a lot of cotton,
so with their slave labor costs, we have a hard time competing.
BTW, no feed corn means 'grass fed' beef,……..ever had one of those grass fed Rib-eyes with the
grayish, tanish color & the stringy chewy texture. MMMmmm No thx, I'll go cornfed all the way.
Mexico buys a ton of feed corn from the USA. They feed it to cattle and pigs, but it also goes into human stomachs as well. They use it in tortillas which is an absolute staple of the Mexican diet. The whole world uses corn oil for cooking and corn is used in a bunch of processed foods. You are right in that there are many varieties of corn. Feed corn is used for animal feed, but also for :"masa" used in tortillas. Field corn is what we think of for fresh corn on the cob. This need to be tender and juicy and is harvested younger. There are new vatieties used for ethanol which I am not that familiar with. Feed corn price increases mean more espensive meat. Subsidy to the farmer affects food prices to the poor. Corporate welfare to farmer drives up prices of food for poor in USA and around the world.
Corn is also made into sugar which goes into coca-cola, baked goods, and many other products. In Mexico Coca-cola is made from sugar cane sugar and tastes a little different. To coca-cola afficianados it tastes a lot different.
Feed corn, when processed for ethanol, strips the starch from the corn, that's where the ethanol comes from.The corn is then passed on to the feed lots for cattle consumption and is a LOWER grade of feed. now the feed lot has to then supplement the feed, meaning a HIGHER cost of beef to the consumer. and BTW it takes 26 gallons of water to process 1 gal of ethanol.
I agree cornpone, Give me corn fed beef, not that nasty ass grass fed.
So ethanol is a scam and a boondoggle. What then is oil? Lets see: A strategic petroleum reserve of about 700 million barrels at $80/brl.=$56 Billion of tax payer money tied up. Ethanol has no strategic ethanol reserve. And then there is the oil depletion allowance that shields oil income from taxation. Ethanol/corn growers have no soil depletion allowance to shield income from taxation. And don't forget Wars for Oil Security that have cost trillions of dollars in the last 20 years and thousands of American deaths and injuries. There have been no wars for ethanol security. On top of all that oil receives other tax benefits in the form of drilling incentives. A tax benefit is the same thing as a subsidy.And what does ethanol get? A piddly $6 Billion/45cent blenders credit which is also in effect paid to oil companies when they blend it with gasoline.The reduced mileage from ethanol use is partially offset by a lower price. Ethanol helps reduce oil imports that help fund terrorists and weaken our economic situation. In the face of the advent of Peak Oil what do ethanol opponents propose? They have no solutions because they don't even understand the problem. If fact they haven't got a clue.
The company in my area, owned by Mexican interests, from Mexico, buys food grade corn to
process for masa, corn chip products & tortillias. It is NOT fresh corn, & is not harvested before
maturity as you seem to believe. Sweet corn is grown to be consumed as fresh corn on the cob,
NOT field corn. Field corn is a slang or common term for feed corn. It can be consumed when
in the 'milk' stage of growth, however is not nearly as tasty as sweet corn, which has been select-
ively bred for its exceptional flavor. When you buy corn on the cob in the grocery store it is sweet
corn, as is the frozen corn sold off the cob.
Subsidies to farmers mean they can continue to raise the crop & sell it at a lower price than the
market would dictate otherwise. Subsidies are beneficial to poor folks who must choose to spend
their food budget wisely. Consumers in the US spend less percentage of their income on food than
anywhere in the world, at this time. The Government philosophy has long been, a full belly makes
for a contented populace.
"Corporate welfare to farmer drives up prices of food for poor in USA and around the world". This
statement is beyond comprehension. 'Corporate welfare' is a buz-word created to demonize family
farmers whose operations have reached sufficient size to benefit from 'incorporating' their business
in an effort to take advantage of tax structuring & other business incentives that are available to all
business in the USA. The big 3 grain companies, Cargill, ADM & ConAgri, that function in the US, as monopolies in my opinion, receive export subsidies far above what US grain producers get.
My car takes ethanol and regular gas. I have tried ethanol many times. I gave it a chance, and I will never use it again. When you fill up on ethanol, your car drives less miles on it. That makes up for the money you "save" because you don't get as many miles per gallon. And the other reason I don't like it, is the pick up. I have big truck and when I fill up on ethanol, and try to accelerate my speed, it goes really slow. Gas is good.
"Simply put, ethanol is more than 50% less efficient as a combustible fuel than gasoline is, requiring far more to travel the same distance."
i can tell you from experience that my turbo Thunderbird and my bimmer runs like crap on ethanol. i avoid it at all costs!
Agreed sourdough, I'd go vegan if I had to eat that 'healthy' crap.
BTW, we're well aware of the water usage of ethanol production,
it is the main reason so many facilities located in our area. Be-
tween the ethanol plants & the dairies re-locating from Az & Ca,
we'll be lucky to have domestic water wells in our area in a few
years. I can't remember right now, how much water a dairy cow
drinks in a day, but it is shocking.
[...] original here: » EPA Set to Give Ethanol a Big Boost? – Big Government By pivot | category: center pivots, pivot | tags: are-mining, center pivots, does-not, [...]
According to the dairy council, a typical milk producing cow drinks between 25 and 50 gallons of water each day.
Oh no! my whiskey drinking days are doomed. I'll have to resort to tater booze!
That's because ethanol has a longer combustion event. It burns slower, requiring far more ignition advance than regular gas. It also has a significantly richer requirement for AFR's (air fuel ratio). Your turbo vehicle has specific requirements that differ from a non-turbo vehicle. Most important, is that as boost rises, the AFR has to richen up to prevent detonation. Since the normal fuel maps of the older cars didn't have the ability to take into account the 10% ethanol blend, they run like crap with that stuff.
Let an Ethanol believer dispute those facts.
so, by your reasoning, it's OK to cause a significant rise in the price of animal feed, thereby causing widely available food to go up in price. beef, pork, chicken, eggs, etc. How is that a GOOD thing?
HA, I agree with your sentiments, but for one thing. Ethanol has a very high octane rating. It can be used to deliver a significant power increase over gasoline. BUT….It is a very inefficient fuel, and should be relegated to the niche markets that it fills well, like alcohol powered funny cars. They rebuild their motors all the time, and can afford the damage caused by alcohol's propensity to absorb moisture.
Funny thing about that, Mikey, Canada is our largest supplier of oil. I think i remember Canada being nowhere near the Middle East, but then again, it's been a while since I picked up a geography book.
The market is not being particularly friendly to the "greens". In order to facilitate a Colossal Power and Money Grab, fossil fuels need to completely bite the dust. Time, and time again, actual supplies – newly discovered and otherwise – outpace leftist projections (According to the 1970's, were we not supposed to all be living on a giant, overpopulated, starving, ice cube by now?). Repeatedly, demand is mitigated by conservation…free market technology advances. Government interferes with prices at every turn. Do you realize that via gasoline taxes, the Feds (and some states) make more money on a gallon of gas than the Big [Evil] Oil Companies do?
You see, the Left needs fossil fuels to BURN OUT, not FADE AWAY. "Fade away" is how the free market determines major changes, such as our leading source of energy. Household lamps used to be lit by the oil gained from harvesting whales (and no home was complete without a spotted-owl ottoman or baby-seal oven-mitts, some would have you think). Supply, demand, innovation, and the free market made that happen. Strange as it is to consider, there is probably some jacka$$, somewhere *today*, who still finds it worth his coin (as measured by time, convenience, eccentricity, wealth, etc…) to read Melville by a while-oil lit lamp. He's either "got it like that" or some kind of Japanese whaler with too much time on his hands. Anyway…
Left to do so, the free market will provide all that we need. The government – world or otherwise – can do nothing but disrupt that process. This is just another example of that.
Basic economics – "opportunity costs" – for everything you are doing with a fixed item (time, money, resources etc…), there are an infinite number of things you are, by default, *not* doing. I am writing this instead of subjecting myself to senseless broadcast television, for example. A "loss"? You make the call.
So they take corn out of the food chain and put it elsewhere. There is a price for that – your tortillas just got a whole lot more expensive, folks. Strange "unintended" and/or "unanticipated" consequences occur – sometimes absurdly as in maybe having to *import* corn because of the self-inflicted shortage…costing a ton more *fossil fuel* to deliver.
Just be glad they haven't figured out how to use wheat for biofuel (yet), otherwise your bread would be cut a lot thinner. On that note, be glad they haven't figured out how to use soap for that purpose…the whole country would smell like a hippie coffee house.
Words of wisdom from Jason Lewis . . .
"If something is viable on the marketplace, it doesn't need a subsidy or a mandate. If something is not viable in a market system, no subsidy or mandate will make it so."
- Jason Lewis
Words of wisdom from Jason Lewis
"If something is viable on the marketplace, it doesn't need a subsidy or a mandate. If something is not viable in a market system, no subsidy or mandate will make it so."
- Jason Lewis
[...] EPA Set To Give Ethanol A Big Boost? [...]
They are lucrative. If you are Saddam Hussein and the UN.
Thanks for the info I was wrong I was thinking it was only E85. But I see your point it sure can be a very high octane.
Right now 10% in gas lowers your MPG by 15%. What a scam!
And $5 more a box of cereal, $5 more a bag of cornstarch shipping peanuts and $5 more a bag of livestock feed and $5 more………………….
Drill Here, Drill Now!
In 2007 alone 758 billion dollars left this country for foreign oil. We have the oil why not use our own and leave the food crops alone. take some of the saving (and there will be savings shipping oil ie:) But if you insist there are other plant stuffs that are more suitable for Ethanol. Sugar cane will render more Ethanol per acre than corn for example and uses less WATER. The Chinese are setting up oil rigs off the coast of Cuba. We need to build new oil rigs. This will boost our steel industry and also and put people back to work.
Yes. You are right.
I only talked about the price of corn as a commodity doubling, then tripling in price. I forgot to mention that anhydrous went through the roof, as well as fertilizers. Iron prices went up as well, as John Deere and other equipment manufacturers wanted their share of the profit.. It is a never ending cycle.
If things aren’t bad enough already…..
More gov. pork—taking resources that should be used for food to make NON cost effecient eco-friendly (PLEASE there is more crap produced making this product!) garbage this too expensive, horrible for your engine, and could be porduced with regualr sugar beats with less waste, less time, less, money, and less energy.
They are morrons or demons….pick your poison.
I really LOVE having someone from Nebraska dictate how much ethanol I need to have in my fuel. Let the free market decide! If it's beneficial to cost, let the gas industry folks decide to use it or not.
Nelson, YOU SUCK!
Plow farmland
Plant corn
fertilize corn with nitrogen (from natural gas)
Harvest corn
Haul corn
Brew corn into ethanol
Heat corn and distil alcohol from water
The total btu's of Petrol used to generate ethanol exceed the btu's coming from ethanol in your car's gas tank.
Yep and there are a lot of ammonia plants that have been closed and relocated from the Gulf Coast to China, India and Pakistan over the last decade. We are already a net importer of the stuff with a lot of it coming from Triinidad. Plus there are new plants coming online in recent years in Middle East OPEC land. So by growing more crops we are actually furthering our dependence on OPEC! This is all due to Clinton Admin holding up construction on power plants not fueled by natural gas and Enron pipelines which raised the price to make it uneconomical to use as fuel and feedstock for ammonia in the U.S.
Ethanol is only viable in states which provide at least a 20 cents per gallon subsidy! It is only viable where there is a nearby ready market for the co-product DDGS (distillers dried grain solubles) at nearby feedlots, dairies, chicken farms or fish farms. EVEN WITH THE SUBSIDIES!
Alcohol burns cleaner and it is renewable so I say why not run cars on 100% alcohol, so long as we don't deplete food crops to produce it. Rather than have subsidies that cause farmers to stop growing food and switch to alcohol grain, let a new agricultural market emerge driven by supply and demand. One point of conflict for the EPA is that burning alcohol produces higher CO2 emissions. You and I know that CO2 is harmless, but the EPA has declared it a poisonous gas. I don't know how they get around that one except by using it as an excuse for even higher fuel taxes.
I just love the way most of us can recognize and appreciate unique statements,…love it there Bus prof.
I have been teaching about 120 seniors a semester the problems with biofuels using the word petrofood – I thought it summed up the problem.
CR, thanks for the support. Unless you consider velveta or cheez whiz petrofood, there really is no way to eat "texas tea."
Actually Jimmy, my farm hand, Esteban bought a new Chevy Silverado with his 'crop bonus' I paid
him just before Christmas 09. I know he won't quit in the middle of the crop this year because he
is up to his eyeballs in pick-up payments. I on the other hand, drive an 05 dodge diesel, that I
bought used, ergo no payments.
So Jimmy if you bought a piece of land and found a gold mine on it would you wish to share it with
the rest of the citizenry? My ancestors homesteaded this prairie land in 1896, they made their living
in the cattle industry. When water in quantities enough for irrigation were discovered, rather than
barely support one family on 6500 acres of land, by raising grain crops we could support several
families. Is that a problem for you? Creating jobs, I believe it's called. Do you think it would be de-
sirable for Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma & Tx Panhandle to become the Great American Desert as
they once were called? In the County where I live, if you don't have enough to eat it is because you
are a low-life bum, too lazy to work, since there are jobs a plenty.
You seem to be one of those judgemental Liberals that has no concept of the consequences
of the ideals you espouse.
In regard to Brazils ethanol production, I believe of late they have experienced production problems.
Andy Stern has probably paid a visit, in an effort to make them aware of the benefits of trade unions.
When you fly over Nebraska, do you realize your air-line ticket is subsidized by the US Government.
And if those subsidies end, no one but the very wealthy will be flying. Hope you fit in that demographic.
I views Bush's support for Ethanol as a shot across the bow of the oil producing countries.
If they seek to use oil as a weapon then so too can another commodity, foodstuffs, be used in that way.
Condi Rice said let them eat their oil, if they want to play hardball, then so be it.
Yep and there are a lot of ammonia plants that have been closed and relocated from the Gulf Coast to China, India and Pakistan over the last decade. We are already a net importer of the stuff with a lot of it coming from Triinidad. Plus there are new plants coming online in recent years in Middle East OPEC land. So by growing more crops we are actually furthering our dependence on OPEC! This is all due to Clinton Admin holding up construction on power plants not fueled by natural gas and Enron pipelines which raised the price to make it uneconomical to use as fuel and feedstock for ammonia in the U.S.
Okay, what I would like to know is how more ethanol production makes us less dependent on foreign sources?
Case in point is fertilizer and other agricultural chemicals. These are general derived from natural gas both as a fuel for the reformer furnaces and as feedstock. During the late 1990’s into the early 2000’s the cost of natural gas had risen to levels uneconomical for ammonia producers. It is used as the feedstock to convert to ammonia and as the fuel for high temperature furnaces for the conversion. This is particularly true in Louisiana and on the Mississippi River where a number of these plants were disassembled and relocated to China, India and Pakistan. Natural gas is also used as a feedstock and fuel for furnaces to make ethylene which is a building block chemical for a LOT of things including pesticides & herbicides.
Also, a number of new ammonia plants have come online in recent years in OPEC countries. I do not know if we are a net importer of pesticides and herbicides, but we most certainly are a net importer of fertilizer due ammonia imports. There is a LOT of ammonia production in Trinidad due it natural gas reserves and no ready market at home for it.
So since ethanol is not viable economically without a nearby and ready market for its co-product, DDGS (distillers dried grain soluble), with nearby feedlots, dairies, aquaculture, etc… AND considerable subsidies (at least 20 cents per gallon on top of federal subsidies) then why is the government fostering support of something that would require more fertilizer imports?
BTW, I have worked with several ethanol companies to provide equipment and was going to be the site/plant manager for its construction and operation in Greenwood, MS before Haley Barbour declined to support funding of the 20 cents per gallon subsidy back in 2003. We really are not that much closer to cellulose based ethanol. The companies who have pitched this are in constant bankruptcy and seem to reincarnate like some horror movie.
I agree. I had problems with my 10 year old Town Car that by process of elimination was due to ethanol in the fuel. I have since stopped buying gasoline at any of the Texas counties mandated to sell blended fuel – the largest counties and those that surround them. Luckily I don't live in any of these counties so it is easier for me – I just have to remember to fuel up before leaving home!
There are many rich farmers – rich because of the subsidies provided by the government. Not all, but many.
I realize you put "save" in quotation marks; but my experience is that the fuel with ethanol is actually more expensive than without.
for the anti ethanol people-remember that the more money going to the middle east the more body bags come home
We at Green Power Inc for now over 2 Years built and operate a Full Scale System converting all forms of Waste which have Hydro Carbons in it, so nearly everything you throw away with the exception of Metal, Glass and stones into High Quality Fossil Free Fuels. The Fuel can be straight filed into cars and engines, Airplanes etc. no modifications needed. Now you will ask why is this not all over, because of one Beaurocrat in Spokane Washington Ecology Office as he stops us all the way.
Other Countries are contracting with us, but in US we are still not allowed to operate full time. We had to lay people off and are asked to move manufacturing overseas, we don’t want to but the local Government actions may force us to do so, so we would lose here in US cheap local Fuel out of waste and the Jobs as well. It feels very bad as we did not take any Government funding to build our system. Our system is ready at full scale and can be implemented anywhere in the world it can give countries fuel and energy independence out of local resources at a much lower price than regular fuel on the Market.
•We have the solution we believe check us out at http://www.facebook.com/greenpowerinc or on our website http://www.cleanenergyprojects.com.
We did it without Government help and we have it working to prove our claim, on full scale not just lab scale ideas. Why spend Billions of Government funding to develop something when we already have it.
Your Green Power Inc Team
And Garbage we have all over the world enough to do it!
Ethanol and Methanol s GREAT and I wish I could use it everyday.
It burns cleaner and completely, Creates more horsepower, and helps engines run cooler and the engine stays cleaner inside. The technology needs to be perfected to run in street cars, but right now, the majority of racers use Ethanol or Methanol.
I encourage developing the technology necessary to run it in every car and not just race cars. I started racing with Methanol in 1995 and will NEVER go back to gas.
I don't think it would be very hard to develop the computers in cars of today to automatically adjust AFR so Ethanol or Methanol will run in modern street cars.
I'd rather buy American farmers corn fuel than oil from those who want to kill us, run a fuel that burns cleanly and completely and gives more horsepower so my engine doesn't have to work as hard.
Maybe asset rich, but not cash rich. I don't know a single farmer who spends like a typical professional couple living in the suburbs.
Do you know why it didn't work worth a darn? Because, most likely, it was exactly the same as a non e-85 car. Detroit and especially Ford charges extra for e-85 and sells you an engine that runs exactly like a non e-85 car. E-85 cars need fuel systems that blend air and gas differently and in different quantities than regular cars.
"Who is now making up the 1.3 million barrel difference? Well our good ole friends from Saudi Arabia! "
No, Canada and Mexico, actually. Only 11% of US petroleum consumption is imported from the Middle East.
1. Acreage and labor/material/fuuel/chemical resources devoted to corn for ethanol are resources taken away from food corn.
2 The same feed corn used for ethanol could otherwise go to animal feed (=meat), HFCSW (basic to most processed food) etc etc.
In other words, the biofuels racket does reduce the food supply-…and makes us put shitty fuel in outr vehicles: while all the while we also have to subsidize the boondoggle through our taxes (while not reducing carbon emissions a licjkk).
It is a RACKET.
"Alcohol burns cleaner and it is renewable so I say why not run cars on 100% alcohol"
Because it contains far, far fewer BTU than gasoline: it's an inefficient fuel. In addition, to burn anything over 15% ethanol (some would say 10%) your engine has to be, in effect, completely rebuilt.
Much of our NH3 came from Russia, about 10 years ago, not sure about it now.
NH3 has been practically abandoned as a source of N on most modern grain
production farms. It's too dangerous to handle, the farmer nor the supplier want
the liability. Also we're mostly doing no-till or min-till now-days so there is really
no practical way to apply it. We certainly got better results from it, yield-wise, but
to be able to apply it one must do too much plowing beforehand so it isn't feasible
any longer.
the subsidies are in the form of tax credits, if the business had not been created with its accom-
panying 'jobs created' there would be no tax credits. Investors risked their money to invest in order
to make a profit, & acquire the tax credit. No money was borrowed from China or Japan related to
this issue.
I've also heard that women menstruating attracts bears.
"send their kids to college to do something else than farm"
Newsflash – Agriculture is not only a viable path of study at the university level, it can be argued that it is one of the most vital. Compared to nonsense "progressive" fields of study ("Women's Studies", Arts, etc…) that are wonderfully useful for weathering Manhattan cocktail parties, Agriculture is relative rocket science in complexity and importance.
But, no, just persist with your ignorant perception of farmers being un-/under-educated bumpkins. It is so much more convenient to your narrative, right?
OMG Order66…….you are sooooooo correct, farming is so hi-tech now I don't even bother dis-
cussing it with folks I encounter because they 'glaze over' with the terminology. Evidently non-
farmers think, we still use the antique tractors we take to the local 4th of July parade, to farm.
Every single one asks me to bring them some corn, when it gets 'ready'. When I tell them the
hybrid corn we raise isn't the same as their grandfather did & doesn't taste very good, they will
always argue with me, as if I haven't tried it myself.
Keep on chuggin away G P Inc,……….if we can beat down some of this corruption, you may get
your opportunity. Cargill, ADM, or some damn oil co will be buying you out, just to shut you down.
Local co-op here built a corn starch plant, competitors price-fixed, convicted in fed court, but it
dragged out so long co-op had to sell to make their payments to co-bank. The co who bought the
plant converted it to fructose (corn syrup), had contracts with Coca Cola, then the 'food police'
decided fructose was evil, so they closed it down, although by then the plant was nearing obso-
lescence. The tax abatements from the town & county had run their course. Lost about 130 jobs for
our small town.
Maybe I was exaggerating a little. With E85 acceleration was poorer, gas mileage poorer, enough so to not warrant its slightly lower cost. With E85 the cruise control had difficult time maintaining speed on a uphill grade. And of course less range on a tank of fuel.
E85 is basically junk, not much reason to use it, unless lower miles per dollar spent is somehow desired.
I very very extremely rarely say this, but …..uh….uh….here goes, Come to Texas! aaawwww.. that hurt.
C L, the iron prices are NOT the problem with agricultural equipment manufacturing,
no, no, no, it is Andy's boys. The factory workers were making close to $100/ hour,
last I heard, and that was a few years ago. I got where I don't EVEN want to know. We
damn sure find out when we get the hots for a new plow.
I went to Penn State University – which has one of the better Ag schools in the country. I never met a stupid Ag major, but I met plenty of dimwits in the School of Business (of which I was a student, draw your own conclusions…haha).
Just got to visit PSU Main a little bit ago – son wrestled in a huge tournament there. Came home with six gallons of ice cream from the Penn State Creamery – a product produced by the Ag/dairy school. Phenomenal stuff – you can actually order it online and they'll ship it in dry ice.
Spent part of my youth living in the Pine Barrens in South Jersey (the "garden" part of the Garden State) adjacent to an asparagus farm. We let them use our (quarter-mile long) driveway for occasional easy access to the back of their property. As a "thank you" we got a bushel of freshly cut asparagus dropped on our doorstep from each year's harvest – couldn't wait for it to "get ready". Amazing stuff once you got the sand out of it.
Agreed on all points. I wouldn't have a problem with farmers selling
their crop to whomever offers the most for it, nor ethanol distilleries
buying it- SO LONG AS the whole thing weren't skewed and distorted by
federal subsidies.
Cowboy – do you think this is going to be a liberal spin piece?
Would you rather transfer it to some rich Saudia???
Asparagus, fresh cut, my mouth is salivating. There was an asparagus grower about
40 miles from us back in the late 80's/ early 90's. It was like a beer run, but for asparagus.
We'd call friends & neighbors when we were going to get a crate for ourselves & by the
time we left home we had orders for 20. Asparagus can't be cut until the 3rd year, I under-
stand. The roots must have time to establish. I know it is expensive to raise due to so
much hand labor. Made me sick to see that farmer just abandon it & eventually plow it
up. I think he planted cotton. That town where he is has had a nest of those damn agi-
tators, can't remember the name, but they stir up trouble between the hand laborers for
specialty crops, & the producers. That little town always had a bunch of vegetable growers,
but after 30 years those crooks finally managed to run them all out of the veg business.
We profoundly disagree. I am curious? Do you grow now? What crop? Corn? Dryland or pivot? In California we call fresh market corn — field corn. We do not grow feed corn like Nebraska — only for the ears. We do grow silage corn. We ferment the whole plant — stalk, ear, –put it under a tarp and let it ferment. It is used as Dairy feed. I am a hardcore city guy, but worked a couple of summers harvesting different crops. I had some "farmero" friends in the service from Kansas and Nebraska. I also have worked in vineyards in California. Farming is an intersting business, except when you get into the politics.
That was a bitter throwaway comment by me. You are correct, But I think my larger point stands. I have worked in Ag, both as laborer and in the tech end. I have driven equipment, run weeding crews, ran harvest crews. I have also installed high tech systems for growers. I just think that farmer should farm the land, not the government.
Bohemond, the agricultural inputs devoted to corn for ethanol are NOT taken away from food corn.
I have great respect for your intellect after reading your posts for a while now, however there is
something you are missing. All the food corn consumed by humans in the US & Mexico could
be produced in a very small area. How many pounds of corn do you eat in a week, a month, a year?
We can produce 13 to 15K pounds of feed corn per acre, however food corn yields are lower,
probably around 8 to 12K per acre. A certain percentage is lost as waste in processing, I'm sure.
So from there it's merely a math problem. Corn chips, tortillas # consumed per person, per day.
Besides corn chips are an evil snack food & Mrs O plans to do away with our culinary pleasures.
Your second point is correct, feed corn used for ethanol could go to animal feed, but here we go
again, beef is bad, we eat too much beef, we should cut our consumption of beef. You First !
The racket is Congress giving tax breaks & low interest loans to build these ethanol production
facilities, not accounting for crude oil market fluctuations, after which Cargill, ADM & Con-Agri,
who operate the US grain market as a monopoly, IMO, buy up these barely used plants for pen-
nies on the dollar. It amounts to low cost vertical integration for them. The price of corn probably
will rise only negligibly, if at all. Without a severe drought in a major corn producing sector of the
world, I don't see Dec 10 corn futures breaking $4.50. That is barely above COP for us in the Tx
Hi Plains.
the US gov policy of subsidizing food for the American consumer is based in
the belief that a full belly begets a docile populace. I'd say up until recent
events it has worked.
10% ethanol lowers your MPG by 3%! Do the math, retard!
Actually, the btu's of the ethanol in the tank exceeds the btu's of "petrol" to generate the ethanol. And by the way, we call it gasoline here in the USA, not "petrol."
you have a turbo thunderbird? What year is it? I remember when they made a supercharged Tbird!
I wouldn't eat the corn that is being used for ethanol if I were you! That is feed corn. It is suitable for pigs and cattle, but definitely not for human consumption!
Did you notice that a gallon of gasoline is trading at $2.30 wholesale whereas ethanol is at $1.60. Too bad the oil companies don't wan't to pass along the savings to you! They just take the 45 cent blender credit, add another extra 70 cents on top and get an extra $1.15 in profit for each gallon of ethanol they blend with your gas.
If we could only come up with an alternative to petroleum based fuels so we could take some of the power away from Big Oil!
Not quite. They peaked at $147.00/bbl on July 3rd of 2008.
What happened to oil prices back then? Did it ever reach $150 per barrel?
87, clean body and runs like a rocket!
For year, when real estate prices were climbing the mentality was, "We need to get these farmer out of the way. Are you going to tell me that we'd rather grow a few acres of corn than have a $300 or $400 thousand $ house on that land?". Now, the real estate isn't worth anything near what it used to be worth and now we're all worried about people starving in other countries because we're making ethanol out of food. Nobody cared that people were starving when housing prices were rising. They wanted that farm land no matter what the cost. The most prized farm land makes the best housing because it is level and drains well.
[...] Set to Give Ethanol a Big Boost? EPA Set to Give Ethanol a Big Boost? – Big Government Oh looky, Ben Nelson is back in the saddle. [...]
A bunch of Monkey-Bafffons,,start using Natural Gas in all GOV vehicles. Hey can you Pad My Pocket too??
[...] EPA Set to Give Ethanol a Big Boost? [...]
[...] EPA Set to Give Ethanol a Big Boost? [...]
[...] month, Capitol Confidential reported that the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) could be set to give the already well-subsidized [...]
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