FBI Official to Federal Judge: OKC Bombing Videotapes ‘Might Have Been Misfiled, Impossible to Know Where’
by Bob McCartyIn a response filed yesterday to a federal judge’s order May 11, an FBI official offered no denials about the existence of video images captured by more than 20 surveillance cameras operating prior to 9:02 a.m. on April 19, 1995, in the vicinity of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City. Instead, he explained that officials at the bureau merely cannot find the tapes and raised the possibility that they “might have been misfiled and thus could be located somewhere other than in the OKBOMB file (though it would be impossible to know where).”
The order, issued by Judge Clark Waddoup in the U.S. District Court for the District of Utah, Central Division, stemmed from the bureau’s failure to comply with a three-year-old Freedom of Information Act request submitted by Salt Lake City lawyer Jesse Trentadue, a man on a quest for answers related to the Oklahoma City Bombing and the death of his brother, Kenneth Trentadue, who died under suspicious circumstances several months later while in custody at the U.S. Bureau of Prisons Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City.
Judge Waddoups’ order was both clear and concise. The items to which the FBI was to respond by June 30, 2011, and how the bureau responded (shown in italics after each item) appear below:
1. Affirm whether the six government officials from the FBI and CIA who had submitted affidavits in this case had misrepresented information or provided incomplete or otherwise misleading information to the Court. In response to this item, the only thing Judge Waddoups received as an affidavit from David M. Hardy, section chief of the FBI’s Record/Information Dissemination Section of the Records Management Divsion in Winchester, Va. The CIA submitted nothing.
2. Advise whether the I-Drive and S-Drive, data storage areas on the FBI computer system, were searched for the videotapes and other documents sought by my FOIA request and, if not, why not. In response, the FBI told the judge the I-Drive no longer exists and that FBI officials have no reason to believe that S-Drive would contain anything.
3. State whether the Evidence Control Centers or other evidence storage facilities located at FBI Headquarters, the FBI Crime Lab and FBI Oklahoma City Field Office were manually searched for the videotapes and other requested materials and, if not, explain why such searches were not done. The FBI responded by saying their headquarters does not have an Evidence Control Center and that the FBI Crime Lab was instructed to send all OKBOMB materials to the Oklahoma City FBI Field Office, where they were placed in a warehouse. According to Hardy, “it is always possible” that these materials/evidence “might have been misfiled and thus could be located somewhere other than in the OKBOMB file (though it would be impossible to know where).”
4. Manually search the OKBOMB physical files at FBI Headquarters, the FBI Crime Lab and the FBI Oklahoma City Field Office for the videotapes and other requested documents or provide evidence as to why such a search would be too burdensome. The FBI responded, explaining to the judge that no manual search was done because to manually search the 450,000 pages of the physical file that might contain the location of this evidence, would require one and one-half years of an FBI agent’s time.
5. Provide the court with an affidavit from Mr. Hardy stating that he does not know of either the existence of or the likely locations of the videotapes and that he is unaware of anyone else that may know of the existence or likely locations of the videotapes. The FBI response via Hardy: “I am unaware of the existence or likely location of additional tapes responsive to the plaintiff’s FOIA request, including tapes from the Murrah Building or any additional Hanger tape other than the tape that plaintiff already received, and do not know of anyone who would know where additional tapes would be located.”
In an email this morning, Jesse Trentadue pointed out several things to me about the FBI’s response as being “noteworthy.”
“There is no affidavit from someone within the FBI stating that the tapes do not exist,” he wrote, adding that FBI officials couldn’t make such a claim, because it would conflict with three sworn affidavits, the contents of which had already been made public in a post published April 7.
In that post, I shared documents Trentadue had shared with me that contain fodder provided by three people — OKC police officer Don Browning, private security specialist Bradford Cooley and FBI Agent Ricardo Ojeda — that sheds light on the FBI’s response to the FOIA request.
Browning noted in a declaration to the court that he and other non-federal rescuers were ordered to leave the Murrah Building soon after the bomb exploded despite the need to move quickly in hopes of locating and, hopefully, saving victims trapped by the blast. In addition, he wrote the following:
That same morning, I observed men wearing jackets with “FBI” printed on the back removing the surveillance video cameras from the exterior of the Murrah Federal Building. I thought this was part of the FBI’s evidence gathering or “chain of custody” procedures since those exterior cameras would have shown and recorded delivery of the bomb in a Ryder truck that morning as well as the person or persons who exited that truck.
I knew from my training and experience as a police officer that an investigation of the bombing and prosecution of those involved would require not only preserving the videotapes of the event but also require preserving the cameras and tape decks by which those videotapes were made. Nevertheless, I did think it odd that the FBI’s removal of those cameras was taking place while many people were still trapped alive in the rubble of the Murrah Federal Building and so many of us were working desperately to find them.
Cooley’s declaration, in which he outlined his knowledge of the surveillance systems at the Murrah Building, included the following hard-to-ignore observations:
From my knowledge of the video surveillance system in place at the Murrah Federal Building, an my presence on scene just after the bomb exploded, I have no doubt that the two external cameras on the Northwest and Northeast corners of the Building would certainly have recorded the entire event. Those cameras would even have recorded the delivery of the bomb to the Murrah Federal Building in a Ryder truck and, most importantly, those cameras would also have recorded everyone who exited that truck prior to the explosion. Because of their distance from the Murrah Federal Building, ADT’s offices were not destroyed or otherwise damaged in the bombing, which means that the videotapes should still exist.
In a sworn affidavit dated May 21, 2001, Ojeda outlined how the FBI handled information they did not want to see brought up in court:
The FBI also kept “zero files,” which were reports containing information that the FBI would not generally want disclosed to the defense and which were kept separate from a specific case file. These files were kept internally within the Bureau and typically were not turned over to the prosecution or the defense. Files would be assigned numbers bases on the type of offense or investigation involved, for example, a bank robbery would be assigned a particular number. A letter A after that number would mean highest importance. A zero after that number would mean that the report should go into the “zero” file.
On the last page of his affidavit, Ojeda added the statement below:
Although there are many very good FBI agents, there are also FBI agents, including some who worked on the Oklahoma City bombing case, who are willing to subvert the truth in order to protect fellow agents.
In addition to the conflicts surfacing between the FBI’s stance and statements made in the affidavits above, it appears FBI officials are playing a shell game with Jesse Trentadue and the judge.
Jesse Trentadue pointed out that, for the first time in three years, the FBI said that all Oklahoma City Bombing-related evidence and documents are in a warehouse somewhere in Oklahoma City. In addition, he noted that bureau officials misrepresented the purpose of the S-Drive before the court.
“This was the time and the place for FBI officials to come forward with evidence of no tapes, but they did not,” said Jesse Trentadue during an interview Friday about the matter. “They are, in plain English, in contempt of the court’s order.”
Click here to read my previous posts about my investigation into the Oklahoma City Bombing.







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147 Comments
They are trying to avoid the fact that muslims were caught on tape. That would blow apart the idea that:
A) Clinton knew what he was doing,
B) It was a terrorist attack, and we needed to beef up national security during a time where clinton was defunding it,
C)He couldn't use it as an attack against non-existent "right-wing terrorists"
There were no muslims in OKC that day. The correct term is a "lily white". Look it up.
It is time to fill some prisons with people and groups that are in contempt of the courts and have exhibited contempt for the American people.
Almost everyday I find myself saying WTF!!!! We have to take are country back we are letting these false leaders destroy our once great nation.
Prove it. Release the tapes, and we'll see the truth.
Just wait until our healtcare records are in the Governments hands.
I would love to see all of these trolls spend some time in the middle east with the muslims…. I wonder how long they would last in a world were you need eyes in the back of you're head? Its very different from the basement environment they are used to.
I'm not too worried. My mammogranms are decidedly NOT exciting. (wink)
I do get your point–I'm just kidding. Yes, it will be sick and wrong…then the govt. can come at you with the IRS; and if that doesn't work, then they can hang your med records out in public.
These videotapes were "mis-filed" by the FBI ? Prime evidence in one of the biggest crimes in American history ? Where were they "mis-filed" to ?
Maybe the tapes were accidentally filed with the missing – oops, I mean technically messed-up/blank – Waco tapes.
Jana Davis did the best investigation on the OKC bombing, with Middle East complicity, but the FBI won't talk to her, or accept her work.
There were five stop-frames photos published outside the Pentagon 9/11, showing an aircraft, presumably flight 77 hitting, and exploding on impact into the building. Also, aircraft debris, passenger bodies and flight 77 recorder were recovered from wreckage inside the Pentagon.
I'd glady take a mamogram and submit it to the Gov't. Big, flabby, squashed man-boob is not a sight most want to see, but I'd still do it.
The arrogance of our government is undeniable. The culpability of some of the guilty should lead to trials for treason. Guilty verdicts in the more egregious trials should lead to executions. Then we can reclaim our Republic!
The only evidence ever obtained from the clinton admin. was the Blue dress. Everything else was covered up. Typical liberal D-bags. They killed Americans at Waco, they blamed Americans for OKC bombing, and they used it to shut down our military, while sticking their heads in the sand. The only military action they did was to support the muslims in Bosnia, and take out Milosevic. What did that get us?
Oh, yeah, 9/11. I forgot.
Probably, the same place Klintoon hid out Monica.
What did that get us?
Besides Bosnia, the UN partitioning of a sovereign state, to created a Muslim Kosovo, at the point of NATO guns (((spit))).
Admitting that the THIRD TERRORIST was indeed Iraqi would really put some currently serving politicians into a different kind of serving…as in within a penitentiary!
Had enough yet?
I don't know what happened to the reply button down below. anyway;
Yep, five frames. I just went and peeked in my archives, and frame #1 show an aircraft. Believe it or not, flight 77's crew and passengers just didn't vanish off the face of the earth. Until something better surfaces, which I doubt, I would have to stick with known common sense, eye witnesses, and facts. There's been mucho idle chatter, but no hard supportive rebuttal facts.
What are you saying?
Speak up and spit that shiite out of your mouth.
Hard to understand mumble.
Check Sandy Burglar's attic.
Funny how they were quik to kill McViegh, but dragging their feet to put down the Islamic Terrorist!
…and that arrogance cut's both ways.
RINO's need cleaned out, also. Their variance from dem-O-craps is merely by degrees and intensity.
Is there really any doubt that this government and it's agencies are out of control?
jaynadavis.com
They will never find the tapes (someone hid them under a copy of the Constitution).
why does the government seem to go out of its way to make every major event look like a conspiracy?
True. I lived in Dubai, U.A.E.
The trolls wouldn't last a day, and the UAE is the most secular nation in the ME.
So tell us, when do missiles have flight recorders?
My friend was at the scene, as he was a first responder. No. VA EMT. How could he have been wrong? How could hundreds of people who saw the plane hit be wrong?
You tin-foil hat losers should all get together and vote Ron Paul. You might get 10% of the primary vote…LOL
Ah, yes. The perfect storm over nothing. I forgot, Timothy McVeigh was running around with a whole bunch of blanket heads. This was an ultra-right wing operation and you need to accept it and move on.
Anyone ever say anything about the attempted bombing of the olympic center in Atlanta?
SHHHHH!!!! It might make Clinton look bad…
It's all fun and games until the mandatory mastectomy.
The FBI needs to be DIsbanded.
No one in the FBI can be trusted.
McViegh had been trying and was unable to produce a working ampho bomb until he took an extended trip to the Philippines and specifically an area that is a hotbed of Muslim terror. His wife/girlfriend had family connections with Islamic terrorists, John Doe 2 was described by numerous witnesses as middle eastern or possibly Mexican. McViegh hated Christians.
I just love when you talk sexy like that viv,
OK, OK…I'm just kidding…geez anyway.
Not Over.
Naw…I think he shoved them down his jockey shorts like the Clinton docs.
Not Over.
Well, then they'll have to come take my boob from my husband's cold, dead hands…!
You mean like Tim McVeigh did prior to blowing up the Murrah building with help from Iraqis?
OMG!
To this "gun guy", that is absolutely HILARIOUS!
And yet his cohort that are allowed to know about lives on in jail to this day…..
How convenient is it that it's always what could be the most damning evidence which is always what ends up being "misplaced" or' "accidentally destroyed" by our government.
"Blanket heads?" That sounds a little bit racist.
Don't forget Ruby Ridge.
Probably…….
Funny, isn't it. Hypocritical lawyer wannabe just can't help himself.
Counselor Jr. Box-o-Rocks exposes the lefties again…..
and again….
and again…..
Lawyer wanabe? ROTFLMAO What are you, a wanabe ground pounder?
I have no problem calling the persons who flew the planes into the WTC and Pentagon a whole lot worse.
Damn BO, thumbs up. There's a glimmer of hope for you yet!
Maybe the FBI could hire the same lovely Americans who went through Palin's e-mails in a day….
just send the Doc's to the New York Times and WaPo and let those Progressives hunt…
Maybe the evidence is with the 500 FBI files lost in the White House Clinton got? Or maybe in somebody's shorts or socks?
Now Holder want's an investigation of that there (Gitmo) to draw attention from this here (Guns to Mexico).
Watch the Left Wing worms worm and you can actually see their tunnel construction constructed! But if we don't watch and do something about it we'll find the whole foundation of this fine country all worm holed threw and threw!
It's time to investigate this here( Holder) and impeach that there (Obama). It's time THEY look here and there at what WE do and with great fear! It wouldn't bother me a bit!
I had no idea there were still "questions" regarding the bombing.
Oh, and Wikipedia claims the FBI collected nearly a Billion pieces of evidence. Wow, with those numbers I can see things getting misplaced or just too hard to locate.
Hee hee! Thanks!
Now do I have to clutch my man-boob and scream "stay away!" or what?
I'm confused.
Hm. So what happened to flight 77 and the passengers on board. I'm sure their families would like to know.
This is about as much as I know about McVeigh:
- He was a white male.
- He used to be in the military.
- He was upset about the Waco massacre.
- He was agnostic as far as religion.
It was also politically expedient for Clinton to cast McVeigh as a right-winger to smear his opponents in talk radio, kind of like the left-wing trying to smear the TP with Loughner.
Are there other reasons McVeigh is always referred to as a right-winger?
"… to manually search the 450,000 pages of the physical file that might contain the location of this evidence, would require one and one-half years of an FBI agent’s time."
Oh, well then, at that rate a hundred agents would be able to come up with it in less than four days. Let's get it done.
We keep seeing the left trying to replay what they consider the golden era of the Clinton years. And it usually involves dodging political consequences or smearing political opponents.
- Weiner calling Clinton after his scandal broke. Then attempting damage control by trying to sell a compartmentalization between his Twitters and his official duties.
- Obama having a WH consult with Clinton after the 2010 drubbing. Then making a lame feint of a pivot to the center.
- The left trying to smear TP with Loughner like Clinton smeared talk radio with McVeigh.
- And now, Obama trying to use a budget crisis to one-up political opponents in Congress like Clinton did in 1994.
It speaks to the character of the left, that they so often seek to recycle Clinton ploys. Doesn't seem to work as well in the age of the internet.
As for McVeigh, the right-winger label sounds a lot like a convenient canard that the Left wants to foist as an undeniable truth through sheer repetition of a lie.
McVeigh was affiliated with a left wing Neo-Nazi group, called Aryan Resistance…
"The Oklahoma City bombing as a government sting operation that flew out of control when the stingers were outstung. Evans-Pritchard tells the story that the FBI and the Justice Department don't want you to know." (link posted below)
This was as the author says an FBI sting gone bad…or, maybe it is just a coincidence that there were no FBI or ATF officers or Directors in the building that morning?
Nope, just primarily female office support people and of course the onsite daycare center was operating that morning, business as usual….
BTW
Directly across the street is a building that houses Federal Judges, coincidentally…..none of them reported to work that morning either….
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcv...
http://www.think-aboutit.com/conspiracy/secret_li...
Exactly……..
When any of these useless idiots tries to spew the ludicrous lie that Left has been promoting for that past sixty years the German Democratic SOCIALIST Party was right wing….I suggest you show them this…
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/adolf%20h...
People who actually think McVeigh or a car bomb did this damage are so stunningly detached from reality, it's astounding.
The simple fact that almost no (99%, literally) federal employees reported to work on the day of the bombing should tell you everything you need to know. Or do some basic research into the alleged explosives used .
It's stunning how in a country with so much freedom that so many people will blindly listen, accept, adhere to or believe in ANYTHING that comes from a supposed 'trusted source'. It's stunning how UNwilling people are to READ the information that's right there in front of their faces.
But please, do continue the nonsensical fantasy stories about 'what happened that day'.
LOL!
You are living proof that even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile…..
McVeigh was affialiated with a left wing Neo-Nazi group…
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcv...
Here are some quotes from a letter to the editor he wrote:
Taxes are a joke. Regardless of what a political candidate "promises," they will increase. More taxes are always the answer to government mismanagement. They mess up. We suffer. Taxes are reaching cataclysmic levels, with no slowdown in sight.
We have no proverbial tea to dump, should we instead sink a ship full of Japanese imports? Is a Civil War Imminent? Do we have to shed blood to reform the current system? I hope it doesn't come to that. But it might. http://web.archive.org/web/20080119111020/http://...
HMMM. I do not think this sounds like some leftist.
Been there, done that…twice…nothing to joke about! Happy 4th!
Truly, No one in federal government ever picks up that document to read anymore
TWA Flight 800 ?
Those they will allow to be leaked all over the internet.
maybe they were on hilliarys nightstand like the missing FBI files ,during all the clintons whitewater,rose law firm,bank scams,real estate scams,dead bodies pileing up,etc.democrats are great at cover ups,while nixon fell short of being lynched,communists always cover for one another while americans stand by like children hypnotized,watching the puppet show unfold,just go back to sleep,obamas crew says everythings fine,keep buying the B.S.,someday when you come out of your comas,america as we knew it will be gone.
WHO DROPPED THE BALL? WHY IS THERE NO OT TODAY? WHY ARE THERE NO NEW ARTICLES
POSTED TO COMMENT ON?
YOO-HOO WAKE UP! DID SOMEONE OVERSLEEP THIS MORNIN'???
In the words of THE donald…. YOU'RE FIRED!!!
.
kinda like the billions of stimulus/bailout dollars lost or misplaced,but not being investigated???could it be in re-election campaign war chests,or obamas retirement/get away money should he lose???even al sharpton ran for office,raiseing money,but it all got spent??? no one ever seems to give money back when they dont win??
Don't know about what you are implying here, but it starts to veer towards that "the gov't demolished the twin towers" sort of conspiracy theory stuff, and I'm not sure if that's relevant to the OKC bombing. I however, wasn't aware that so much of the supposed evidence that was claimed to have existed has now disappeared. It certainly raises a whole lot of questions that need to be further investigated.
But its a Religion of Peace, little Huskers! A Religion of Peace!
Except for the part about taxes, he sounds exactly like Bill Ayers.
Look, every religion has overreached in the name of their God. The Crusaders sacked Constantinople, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem witch trials. Admittedly, radical Islam has been at the forefront since Israel was created. But Christianity has not been pure as the driven snow, either.
Except Bill Ayers did not have ties to the right wing militia and Terry Nichols showed up at school board meetings complaining about taxes.
Yes, but then again these "useful idiots" can post and not have it deleted by the administrator.
Chuck, you are wrong. In her New York Times Best Seller, "The Third Terrorist: The Middle East Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing," award-winning author and investigative reporter Jayna Davis proved the involvement of an Iraqi national, Hussain al-Hussaini, in the Oklahoma City Bombing. The FBI ignored it. You can read about al-Hussaini here: http://bobmccarty.com/?p=36825. You can read my exclusive interviews with Davis here: http://bobmccarty.com/?p=19006.
An Anti American president instructs his Anti American AG to prosecute the FBI?
how cute.
I there was wrong doing, as at Ruby Ridge and perhaps at Waco…jury really is still out on who fired first, then better we save that investigation until someone other than a freakin bigot AG and a communist president are doing it, um?
Glad you're here to scold us. I wish my dad were. He passed away 5 years ago today, from cancer. His own morbid humor helped him endure his long illness.
Hey 'viv',
I'm replying to your comment only because it was at the top of the list at the time I decided to post. Please keep that in mind and try not to feel insulted or disrespected by anything I say.
I am Conservative/Libertarian and a natural born skeptic. I knew (instinct) that OKC was a false flag hit the day it happened. OKC was all part of a running 'meme' under clinton to tarnish the growing true Conservative political backlash building against him during his first term (which revealed itself quite dramatically in '94).
So I'm going to now state a conviction of mine that you are not likely to be comfortable with. Please do however have an open mind and consider what I have to say?
Ronald Reagan was America's last true American President. Beginning with "new world order" H.W. Bush we have had Globalist Presidents. These Men have not served the American people. They have served the interest of Globalist elites. We today live under a regime just as surely as do the citizens of Syria. Both Bush boys and the Republican party establishment represent globalist interest. Clinton did, and obviously obammu does.
As Conservatives we need to wake up to this fact and take radical action and what I mean by radical is that we must NOT accept a globalist traitor (like Romney) to become our nominee for replacement of the obamanation currently heading the regime.
Ron Paul, Bachman, or Palin. If we accept less than a radical departure from the path we are on today, America is over and once America is over it is global fascism. That is the straight up truth.
I suppose that the main point I'm trying to make is that we do not truly have a two party system and that those of us who truly love this country and the principles upon which She was built must be willing to get real and know the truth about what the globalist/banksters have done to OUR nation.
Best place to start (yes, Brietbarts stuff is great. I love it and I respect the man deeply) we need to go further though.
Check this site out, it is the best on the web if you want truth. http://www.zerohedge.com
There were many FBI agents killed in that building that day.
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.
If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.
All propaganda must be so popular and on such an intellectual level, that even the most stupid of those toward whom it is directed will understand it… Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise
National Socialism will use its own revolution for establishing a new world order.
This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilised nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
It is thus necessary that the individual should finally come to realize that his own ego is of no importance in comparison with the existence of the nation, that the position of the individual is conditioned solely by the interests of the nation as a whole.
Gold is not neccesary. I have no interest in gold. We will build a solid state, without an ounce of gold behind it. Anyone who sells above the set prices, let him be marched off to a concentration camp. That's the bastion of money.
Believe me, National Socialism would not be worth anything if it were to be confined to Germany and did not secure the rule of the superior race over the whole world for at least one or two thousand years.
Society's needs come before the individual's needs.
In relation to the political decontamination of our public life, the government will embark upon a systematic campaign to restore the nation’s moral and material health. The whole educational system, theater, film, literature, the press and broadcasting – all these will be used as a means to this end.
The National Socialist Party will prevent in the future, by force if necessary, all meetings and lectures which are likely to exercise a depressing influence on the German state."
Hitler Quotes…..
Check Please
Allow me to give all you conspiracy nuts a history and a fact lesson:
1) The only civilians killed at WACO (not including ATF LEOs ) were killed by the gasoline which the child molester Koresh and his conspirators spread around the compound which was ignaited when the FBI put the tear gas canisters into the building. That was always Koresh's plan – death by cop. No one in the FBI would ever condone what you are alleging – that makes you insane.
2) An FBI zero file is used to store for information not related to any particular case and which does not rise to the level of opening a case. If something in a zero file is later determined to be related to an open case, it will be moved to that case. It only helps the agents to have it in the case – it does no good in the zero file.
3) McVeigh was caught by a local state trooper on I-35 (if I recall) when he was caught driving with a home-made license (real smart you anti-government idiots) and he was carrying a concealed weapon. – another stupid move – good for law enforcement – bad for the anti-government morons. The FBI did not know of McVeigh's existence until tracking him thru the VIN on the axle of the rental truck used to transport the explosives.
4) There were 3 trials for McVeigh & Nichols – McVeigh & Nichols did not take the stand in any of them. Why not? Why not get up there like a man and present your case against the FBI, the muslims, the aliens, Janet Reno, et al? Convicted, done, and dead.
5) There were no FBI agents at the Murrah building that day because that was not their office. Their office was at 50 Penn Place. I can't speak for the judges, but they keep odd hours any day of the week. Just go and watch some time.
6) If there was a way to link this to Iraq or the muslims, the FBI would have found it. Maybe Washington & HQ pukes play politics, but street agents do not.
Quit reading all this conspiracy nonsense on the internet. I'm no fan of Clinton or Reno either, but sometimes they may not be to blame for events that happen on their watch, although they definitely tried to use this one to shut Rush up – they failed on that one too.
Leftists never let an event go without trying to use it to their favor. Evidently, neither do conspiracy nuts.
In your reply, the first paragraph implies anyone who thinks taxes are too high are right-wingers, and that no left-wingers think the tax system is messed up. Sound pretty sketchy to me. I suppose if you make the assumption that all leftists receive government freebies while already paying little or no taxes, your logic makes more sense. But that'd be another generalization.
The second paragraph I don't get at all. I ask about evidence that McVeigh's violence stemmed from being a right-winger, and you cite as evidence that he once threatened violence. That's some circular thinking.
Most here are well aware, leftists always accuse conservatives of violence, but it is leftists that always commit the violence, often upon conservatives, and then the violet leftists are rewarded with respectable positions in society from which accuse conservatives of violence. Examples: Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn.
I don't suspect many people doubt that McVeigh was involved. I don't want to insult you. You do sound like a decent guy.
I submit though that it is 'nuts' not to accept that the forces running this world are manipulative, deceptive, and perfectly accustomed to staging events. Consider the very nature of politics and then wed that to known history and I submit that dismissal of 'conspiracy' is naive.
Politics is theater. They are on the stage, we are the audience, there does in fact exist a curtain behind which we are not to see the machinations of what they produce for our consumption.
Plato's cave.
Just because you don't want to look at it does not invalidate its existence.
Peace.
And truth. http://www.zerohedge.com
HMMM. I do not think the Democrats have based their campaigns on significantly reducing taxes. Additionally, I do not accuse all conservatives of threats of violence. I simply have pointed out McVeigh was associated with right wing militias, wrote letters complaining about taxes and included the threat of violence.
Yes, Hitler was such a friend of Communism, he attacked Russia. Your history book may be a bit different, but then I know Paul Revere did not ride to warn the British. What your really need to do is take a course in political science. You will find, both communism and fascism share many of the same attributes such as ruling through the use of force and no free speech, etc. However, there are additionally, very stark differences.
What right-ring militia? Some socialist group?
We may agree, it's highly unlikely a Democrat will EVER want to reduce taxes. No argument! Does that prove anyone who thinks taxes are too high is conservative I don't think so.
My question was what evidence is there that McVeigh's violence resulted from right-wing beliefs. Citing a threat of violence from him does not answer that at all. It just tells what we already know. He was violent.
LOL!
You will never win this one idiot…..communism and fascism?
They are cousins….
The quotes above are in Comrade Hitlers words……do you refute them?
You are right about everything but Bachmann or Palin are no better than Romney. NWO HQ is Israel. I don't see how exactly you can see enough to identify the problems being bankers and not see that. And these pair slobber over Israel – no war they want will be denied.
And viv is a hopeless Zionist.
It wasn't about supporting Muslims but opposing nationalism – especially WHITE nationalism. Globalists need to destroy nations.
Viv can't handle the truth – Ruby Ridge is another piece to the puzzle to reveal the anti-White agenda of the globalists.
Funny that self-described conservatives say this all the time but many can't take the leap that they carry out operations like OKC.
Both statists. Statism may begin as misguided. It winds up as evil.
Progs are statists, but by evolution, not revolution.
All you people out there with digital and phone cameras. Start taking pictures of incidents. If you see the FBI removing evidence, take a picture of it. It seems to me that our law enforcement systems are becoming a system to be wary of.
Jesse Ventura's book 63 Documents mentions plots made by US government officials to attack our own country so the US gov can put forth their agenda. I'm sure Operation Northwood can be modified to fit a certain agenda.
When did Big Government become Alex Jones?
sure thing, Adolph.
"The simple fact…"?
Really? Back it up since it's a) so simple, and b) a fact.
One of the best books written about Clinton- "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton" by Ambrose Evans- Pritchard has a great deal of info about this whole mess.
Why do we tolerate such agencies as the FBI, ATF, DEA in this country? Where in the Constitution does it demand that we have these agencies? And why do we sit quietly while the CIA operates within our borders? Want to know where Obama's "civilian police force" will come from? Add these to the "enforcement arms" of agencies such as the IRS, EPA, HHS, DOE and transportation (transportation for crying out loud?), and there you have it.
Defund the agencies, reduce them to single office for gathering statistics and take away their guns- now THAT is "gun control"!
Time for the people to speak up.
Maybe misfiling some FBI folks into a federal pen with some of the not so nice folks they arrested would enlighten their memory?
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