Oklahoma City Bombing Videotapes Subject of Federal Court Hearing in Salt Lake City May 11
by Bob McCartyMore than 18 months after publishing a piece about the whereabouts of the unedited versions of the Oklahoma City Bombing surveillance tapes, I learned Wednesday that a federal court hearing concerning a Freedom of Information Act request for those videotapes is set to take place May 11 in Salt Lake City.
The hearing will take place with Judge Clark Waddoups presiding in the U.S. District Court for the District of Utah, Central Division. It comes some three and a half years after Utah attorney Jesse Trentadue used FOIA to request the FBI turn over copies of surveillance video captured April 19, 1995, by more than 20 cameras operating in the vicinity of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City.
I don’t agree with Trentadue’s belief that the bombing was likely a U.S. government-sponsored operation; instead, I side with the conclusions offered by Jayna Davis, award-winning investigative reporter and best-selling author, in her 2004 book, “The Third Terrorist: The Middle East Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing.” Still, I remain troubled that the FBI has fought the release of videotape footage likely to reveal the identity of at least one additional person involved in the bombing that took place less than 30 minutes from where I was living at the time.
Specifically, Trentadue requested footage captured prior to 9:02 a.m. Central, when a truck bomb exploded, killing 168 people, and footage from the dashboard camera of Oklahoma Highway Patrolman Charles Hanger’s vehicle showing the arrest of Timothy McVeigh. He received footage from several cameras, but not from the cameras on the Murrah Building itself; hence, the reason for the May 11 hearing.
In his Memorandum in Support of Rule 56(f) Motion for Continuance Pending Discovery, Trentadue explained that his lawsuit “is not about reports and documents” and is, instead, “a case about videotapes.”
It is also a case about the most crucial evidence in what was then the biggest investigation ever handled by FBI Defendants: the bombing of the Oklahoma City Alfred P. Murray Federal Building, he wrote. The videotapes at issue will expose that others were involved in that terrorist attack.
After explaining that FBI defendants do not present the court with any proof that these tapes do not exist and that their claim that the tapes cannot be found despite a computer search for this evidence does not relieve them of their FOIA obligations, Trentadue directed the court’s attention to ordinary Americans:
The American public has a right to know what happened in Oklahoma City on the morning of April 19, 1995 and, more importantly, why? Yet, it is obvious that for some reason FBI Defendants do not want the truth about the Oklahoma City bombing made public. Perhaps the reason is as simple as: the Federal Government’s prior knowledge of that planned attack and failure to prevent it, or that there were others involved whom the Federal government chose not to expose and/or prosecute. But whatever the reason, that is precisely why the FOIA became law: to protect the right of American citizens to know their own history and, more importantly, their government. And that is why the Court should reject the FBI Defendants’ claim that their only obligation is to search their computerized records for this evidence knowing that it is not there and once that search they knew would fail has been concluded, they need do no more.
After citing several legal precedents to back up his argument, Trentadue shared documents with me that contain fodder provided by three people — OKC police officer Don Browning, private security specialist Bradford Cooley and FBI Agent Ricardo Ojeda — that sheds light on the Bureau’s response to the FOIA request.
Browning noted in his declaration to the court that he and other non-federal rescuers were ordered to leave the Murrah Building soon after the bomb exploded despite the need to move quickly in hopes of locating and, hopefully, saving victims trapped by the blast. In addition, he wrote the following:
That same morning, I observed men wearing jackets with “FBI” printed on the back removing the surveillance video cameras from the exterior of the Murrah Federal Building. I thought this was part of the FBI’s evidence gathering or “chain of custody” procedures since those exterior cameras would have shown and recorded delivery of the bomb in a Ryder truck that morning as well as the person or persons who exited that truck.
I knew from my training and experience as a police officer that an investigation of the bombing and prosecution of those involved would require not only preserving the videotapes of the event but also require preserving the cameras and tape decks by which those videotapes were made. Nevertheless, I did think it odd that the FBI’s removal of those cameras was taking place while many people were still trapped alive in the rubble of the Murrah Federal Building and so many of us were working desperately to find them.
Cooley’s declaration, in which he outlined his knowledge of the surveillance systems at the Murrah Building, included the following hard-to-ignore observations:
From my knowledge of the video surveillance system in place at the Murrah Federal Building, an my presence on scene just after the bomb exploded, I have no doubt that the two external cameras on the Northwest and Northeast corners of the Building would certainly have recorded the entire event. Those cameras would even have recorded the delivery of the bomb to the Murrah Federal Building in a Ryder truck and, most importantly, those cameras would also have recorded everyone who exited that truck prior to the explosion. Because of their distance from the Murrah Federal Building, ADT’s offices were not destroyed or otherwise damaged in the bombing, which means that the videotapes should still exist.
In a sworn affidavit dated May 21, 2001, Ojeda outlined how the FBI handled information they did not want to see brought up in court:
The FBI also kept “zero files,” which were reports containing information that the FBI would not generally want disclosed to the defense and which were kept separate from a specific case file. These files were kept internally within the Bureau and typically were not turned over to the prosecution or the defense. Files would be assigned numbers bases on the type of offense or investigation involved, for example, a bank robbery would be assigned a particular number. A letter A after that number would mean highest importance. A zero after that number would mean that the report should go into the “zero” file.
On the last page of the sworn affidavit, Ojeda added the statement below:
Although there are many very good FBI agents, there are also FBI agents, including some who worked on the Oklahoma City bombing case, who are willing to subvert the truth in order to protect fellow agents.
It will be interesting to see how the judge rules in this case, but I won’t be holding my breath in anticipation of a groundbreaking ruling. Neither will Trentadue.
“If the Utah Federal Court does rule in my favor and order the tapes produced,” he told me via e-mail today, “I expect the FBI to again go to the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit to have that order set aside.”
Noting that the Bureau has a track record of successfully appealing lower court rulings, Trentadue offered a prediction.
“In short, May 11, 2011, will be just another battle in a very long war and not the end of the war.”
RELATED LINKS:
To learn more, click here to find links to all of my posts about the Oklahoma City Bombing.
For an overview of why Jesse Trentadue became interested in the bombing, visit KennethTrentadue.com, the web site he created after his brother Kenneth died under suspicious circumstances while in custody at the U.S. Bureau of Prisons Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City.
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81 Comments
There always has been more to this.
I was living in Texas at the time, and the very first reports, out of Oklahoma City carried by a local Ft. Worth station, were that they were looking for two males. A white Caucasian (Timothy McVeigh) and a "Middle Eastern" man.
They found the former, but the latter got swept under the rug.
I was pretty young when the Oklahoma bombing occurred so don't know a lot of McVeigh or his motives, but it sort of seems odd that a court case has to be filed while Obama was elected into office on the promise of government transparency. It sort of sounds like the Democratic party instructing a sitting Democratic president to cover up information about an event that happened during another Democrats term. What could possibly need to be hidden by our government in that surveillance tape all these years later?
Again, why not release the video and put the people's minds at ease once and for all?
This is a truly disgusting pattern under the Chairman O regime.
"The truth is out there!"
I have a tape that chronicles the actual tv stations reports during this tragedy. There were many reports of a second bomb that had not detonated being removed from inside the building. I think Alex Jones was the one to put that together. There is a LOT more to this story but the Christian radical white guy terrorist is the template now and can never be erased from many people's minds.
After Ruby Ridge and Waco our government shouldn't be trusted anymore.
I think there is a lot more to the story that we will never be permitted to see.
The transparency of our government is actually there you just have to understand how it is presented to you.
Spending is now investment, war is kinetic military action, ect, ect, ect,.
Sorry for pointing out the obvious, but the same can be said about obama's birth certificate…
"The truth is out there"…
"put the people's minds at ease"….
"but the latter got swept under the rug"…..
I know, I know, this makes me sound like a "birther" and no one cares about whether this POTUS is a natural born citizen…….
I suspected it was some Domestic people (McVeigh and company) WITH foreign terror together by the way Clinton so quickly announced it was Domestic.
As if because he claims it's DOMESTIC it cant posibly be a joint opperation of foriegn terroists working American dupes?
The MSM of the time should have puked and started digging!
I believe Clinton learned very quickly it was a joint opperation and just didn't want to deal with it! So he lied!
When the world trade center basement blew up on his watch, he started singimg about how the guilty will be brought to justice–which means " everybody just forget about this!"
And trusting Americans did. And the time line began to 911. That's what IS is!
Off topic but I'm posting this everywhere I can. It' sen Lindsey Graham apologising for the koran burning free speech issue. Ouote: "The Right Reverend Ayman Al-Zawahiri
Cave 37-B, Kandahar Arms
My Dearest Reverend:
On behalf of my colleagues, please allow me to express our deepest shame at the blasphemous action of one our citizens in the incident that so rightly vexed you and other devout followers of the Prophet. Please rest assured that as a civilized nation we in no way condone or tolerate this type of behavior. Although we cannot undo the unimaginable hurt his thoughtlessness caused, we will leave no stone unturned until he has made amends. Your recommendations for a just punishment will of course be given every consideration.
In closing, I hope by putting this incident behind us, we can return to an existential conflict befitting our two great and gentlemanly peoples. I remain, as always,
Your Faithful Servant, etc.,
The Hon. Lindsey Graham of the Charleston Grahams
Link: http://iowahawk.typepad.com/
This moron has to go.
There has never been a dou't in my mind that Clinton was covering up an Islamic connection. I do hope this investigation gains some traction.
The narrative is far to important too statist Washington to ever let the full truth be known.
OK City bombing 4-19-95
Waco murders 4-19-93
Think this is a coincidence?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/...
Ann
out of control government
There is a lot more to this case. I think it is farcical to say that the bombing itself was a government plot. But there are many unanswered questions. I am not a demolition expert but I know several and they all say that the depth of the blast crater and the shearing effect on the reinforced concrete columns could not be done by a fertilizer bomb. If that is accurate then addition explosives had to be used along with the fertilizer bomb. I do NOT believe the US government provided those explosives but I do believe they have prevented any investigation that would prove the presence of more powerful types of explosives at the site.
I personally believe that there are strong similarities between the FBI's investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing and the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. In the case of the World Trade Center, the FBI had placed an informant in with the terrorists who was with them as the bomb was being built. They knew about the bomb and wanted the terrorists to get to the point in their actions where they could be charged with an attempt rather than a conspiracy to commit…the evidentiary standards for a conspiracy are very difficult to prove but attempted crimes are much easier to get a conviction. Unfortunately the bomb was finished, moved and people died. In that situation the FBI and US Attorney's office had a strong motive to move for a quick conviction and not let the whole story out.
I think the same thing happened in Oklahoma City. The plot was larger than McVeigh, Nicholas and Fortier and it is likely the FBI or some other agency such as ATF had it under surveillance or had enough prior leads that they should have had it under surveillance. Those agencies and the Justice Department do not want the public to see that another mistake was made. The actions of the Feds to suppress the evidence, at the trial and now are not an attempt to hide the involvement of a middle eastern group but to prevent the American people from seeing the evidence of shoddy investigative work. The Feds will do all they can to hide the evidence of their failures to protect us. It does not matter if McVeigh had help from middle eastern sources or other US born nut cases, the Feds blew the investigation and they are covering up their own mistakes. There is no reason to hide the security camera tapes unless it is to hide evidence that would eventually prove that but for poor police work, the crime could have been prevented.
Go back to the murder of Rabbi Meir Kahane in New York City in 1990. He was murdered in a public setting by an Egyptian immigran named El Sayyid Nosair. When police inspected Nosair's apartment they found 47 boxes of para military, diagrams of buildings including the World Trade Center and many documents in Arabic. Years later, after the 1993 attack, those materials were fully inspected and translated. They revealed the existence of a large network of islamic militants who wanted to practice asymmetrical warfare against the US by attacking us from within and hitting tall buildings that are the symbols of our society and hitting economic targets to weaken us. Again, shoddy police work and a desire to get Nosair convicted and the case closed because moslems in large numbers were protesting on New York streets that Nosair was innocent…even though the murder was in plain sight of many people. If the case had been properly investigated it would have been an early warning of the 1993 attack and later 9/11.
Rather than judges "ruling", I want to see them "apply the law as it is" from the bench within the courtroom. We are not subjects t be ruled over, we are Citizens with rights.
That said, Jayna's book is one of the most compelling I have ever read, right up there with Richard Miniter's "Losing Bin Laden". I learned more from those two Patriots in their books than from all the "news" organizations combined. Anyone who hasn't read them should do so.
Tim McVeigh deserved to die for what he did, no doubt, but everyone should be able to agree upon how odd it was that justice came so quickly for him when other capital punishment cases take decades to adjudicate and appeal out. For crying out loud, KSM hasn't even been tried yet, much less executed, and if anything overshadows OKC, it is 9-11. And that Tim's sidekick remains alive should disturb everyone.
Was there a "third terrorist"? There is no doubt about it. Was Saddam's Iraq involved? No doubt about it. Was Al Qaeda involved? No doubt about it.
Our government has left the realm of protecting the blessings of Liberty and entered realm of protecting its own failings, its own misgivings and its own mistakes. One could even make the case that it is protecting its own corruption. It is my hope that the truth will finally come out about OKC and that it starts a landslide of undeniable revelations that demonstrate just how hoodwinked this nation's people have been, by the so called mainstream media, about everything from OKC to 9-11 to Iraq 2003 and Al Qaeda's longstanding war against us – Somalia and Yemen included.
Um, I think that was part of Iowahawk's satire.
Considering all the questions still unanswered, I'd guess it was an intentional coincidence to create the white racist militia narrative of the tragedy.
The most interesting part of the OKC bombing case is that Terry Nichols traveled to Indonesia one year before the despicable deed and guess who he had a meeting with….?
Ramsi Youssef (first WTC attack), who just so happened to give Nichols the design for the bomb, 16 years later and the DOJ still will not admit there was a Islamic terrorism tie to this case.
Does anyone remember the lone severed leg in fatigues and a boot that didn't match any of the victims known to be in the building at the time of the explosion?
Why was there such a rush to implode the building when the FBI and BATF had so much more chemical analysis and forensic work to do?
Why did they prevent independent confirmation of the reconstruction of events by private investigators?
Why did they bury the rubble and why did they bury it all on a military base?
Isn't it also interesting that the FBI offices there were investigating the Mena Arkansas connections to Bill Clinton and White Water cases and all of those records were housed in the Murrah building?
There are far too many unanswered questions and inconvenient facts remain for this case to be considered concluded satisfactorily or completely.
Still. I liked the part, quote" This moron has to go."
I think you're right. McVeigh et al. were someone's useful idiots. But jihadis don't like sharing the spotlight when they're killing Americans. This occurred after WTC attempt #1, so why would jihadis want to hide their involvement in this particular attempt?
Methinks there was something in the Murrah building that someone wanted to vaporize.
Me, too.
McVeigh was, unfortunately, a white racist, militia type.
If the government has a hand in this or is covering some nebulous "middle eastern" connection,
you'd have to color me very surprised.
Keep in mind "Occam's Razor"..usually helps ..
Ann
That's precisely my recollection of that terrible day. After McVeigh was arrested…no more "Middle Eastern" man. The local press began reporting that he may never have existed…despite previous interviews with store front business owners who actually saw the man (within moments of the blast) and described him. And so it goes. The MSM reports, then unreports and stands by their version of the truth.
FYI, I lived less the 12 miles, as the crow flies, from the blast. It rocked my home enough that I thought a Semi had driven into the front of our brick house. The quiet that ensued….on a par with 9/11. A black day, indeed.
If you haven't already done so, check out the documentary "Waco: Rules of Engagement."
It's basically all video footage of actual events. I thought the surveillance plane stuff is some of the most haunting stuff I have ever seen. And don't even mention the pics of the little girl after she was hit by serin gas.
Good point. But according to the FBI documents, it wasn't really jihadists, but Arab nationals in the Iraqi government.
True. But I'm also saying that McVeigh et al. might have been someone's useful idiots.
OK, then some non-jihadi bad ME guys wanted something vaporized.
I'm so happy this is all finally coming out.
I just wonder why the FBI is so eager to apologize for Muslims. This isn't the first instance, and it won't be the last.
You bring up some good points. I did not know about the Whitewater related files in the building.
Whatever the reason there was a rush to justice and an attempt to hide something. I think it was a botched surveillance but who knows it could have been more. What ever it is, the really fast action to implode the building and then burying the the rubble on a military base is pretty odd.
It's a good question. Clearly McVeigh was someone's lackey, but there may well have been much more to just an act of terrorism.
The AlQueda types like to take credit and rub our nose's in it.
But who really knows.? I'm going for the simple, the obvious.
Don't want to go down to the "grassy knoll" or over to "Bldg 7".
Ann
Even good ol Sandy Burger could not have done better.
.I had posted that thing about 6 times before the Cave 37-B Kandahar Arms thing jumped out at me and I realized I HAD BEEN PUNKED. It got me because it could have easily been true with 'ol Lindsey Grahamnesty
Ramzi Yussef – Nephew of Khalid Sheik Muhammed.
Al QAEDA.
Noteworthy it is that Ramzi was in this country on an IRAQI passport.
How long before Americans just admit that 1+1=2?
WTC # 1 was in 1993 Slick Willie was POTUS… TWA Flight 800 was in 1996 also Slick Willie… keep digging and you will find the pot of crap.
Iowahawk is sneaky that way.
Yeah, and that is why the meme after 9-11 was that there was "no proof" that Osama's Al Qaeda was responsible for it. That is why the Taliban demanded proof before they would hand him over, which was the basis for taking them out in Afghanistan, remember?
That is why Al Qaeda took credit for the barbaric actions in Somalia in 1993 too, right? Most folks fail to realize that the action in Mogadishu was our first military encounter with Al Qaeda and the Clinton ran away from it to continue the pretense that the group was not at war with us. That would soon become clear with Osama's 1996 fatwa and made clear again in 1998 with another. Anyone who hasn't read them would do well to do so.
To be sure, Al Qaeda likes to take credit for things, but there is plenty they don't too.
Was Tim salty about WACO? You bet. He was salty after having been in Saudi too. Muslims were all kinds of involved in OKC and there was cooperation between Saddam's Iraq and Al Qaeda that brought it about.
Here is the problem with the "white militia" take –
Muslims want to destroy this country and make it part of the Islamic Ummah, the "white militias" aren't going to have any part of that action nor would they help those ends.
Because it links Al Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq, the truth about OKC has been suppressed.
Bill Clinton would have been forced to do what W did had the truth come out. If it comes out now, the Clinton legacy is , well, what many of us know it is anyway.
Arab nationals in Saddam's Iraqi government = jihadists.
The people of Oklahoma know, which is why the push to ban "Sharia law" at the state level runs so strong there. I lived down there in 1999, just outside Tulsa, and I felt it even then from the folks there.
While they're at it, why not release Zero's birth certificate and school transcripts, Missy? Most transparent government evah, my ass!
You might be right on that one. It is just like the NYPD and FBI did not dig deeper in Rabbi Kahane's murder….the whole next of jihadi vipers would have surfaced….and that would not have been PC.
You don't sound like a birther at all Stan. You actually sound like Ronnie, "Trust but, verify!" No?
No need for shame Larry. You aren't the first one to fall for David's pranks. The man is a genius on so many levels. I love it when he goes after asshats like Krugman!
I had hoped that after 9-11 that "wall" would have been broken down or at least jumped over, but alas, it seems to have been higher and hardened.
I had hoped 9-11 would have woken more people up and those who woke up seem to have hit the snooze only to go back to sleep. Sad it is, for it will only see the alarm go off again..
Thanks I haven't but will locate it.
Birther is a derogatory term used by the left to demean the question. "WHERE IS THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE"??
And yes I am a birther and do not feel demeaned only more determined that it be produced.
And the poser cannot be president by our very own constitution.
Actualy all records should be released.
Missy, you bring up stuff that, to me, is actually scarier than Exspook's missive!
Of course, it was so under 2 previous administrations as well. This is FBI.
Really?
Lets hear it then boi….
Yes Ann and now we have NORTHCOM here to 'protect' us….won't that be nice?
Here's a couple more:
Why were there no Agents or ranking officials in the building?
Why were there no Judges in their offices in the building across the street.?
Many of these answers can be found here….
http://www.think-aboutit.com/conspiracy/secret_li...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-28198293...
Excellent job Mr. McCarty, do keep them coming, please…..
"The Oklahoma City bombing as a government sting operation that flew out of control when the stingers were outstung. Evans-Pritchard tells the story that the FBI and the Justice Department don't want you to know."
"It's obvious that it was a government 'op' that went wrong, isn't it? The ATF had something going with McVeigh. They were watching him — of course they were," he asserted, without qualification. "What they should have done is make an arrest while the bomb was still being made instead of waiting till the last moment for a publicity stunt. They had everything they needed to make the bust, and they screwed it up."
He said that the sting operation acquired a momentum of its own as the ATF tried to "ice the cake" for more dramatic effect. "Whoever thought this thing up is an idiot, in my opinion. I am told they thought it would be better to put a bigger bomb in there. The bigger the better. It would make them more guilty . . . . McVeigh knew he was delivering a bomb, but he had no idea what was in that truck. He just wanted to shake things up a little; you know, make a gesture."
Why were there no Agents or ranking officials in the building, (the dead were mostly children in the day care center and their secretary moms)?
Why were there no Judges in their offices in the building across the street.?
Ambros Evans Prichard is a man of impeccable credentials……..here is the truth……
http://www.think-aboutit.com/conspiracy/secret_li...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-28198293...
"To be sure, Al Qaeda likes to take credit for things, but there is plenty they don't too."
Could you please provide an example of something they DIDN'T take credit for?
Maybe the Kennedy Assassination?
I live in the land of reality, not the land of speculation. It may be fun to do but is not very realistic or productive.
I see, in this particular bombing, revenge, evil, and incompetence.
You are free to see whatever you want.
Ann
C-SPAN: Why is Oklahoma City such a focal point of the book?
AEP: Well, I think something that hasn't been reported to the American people is, many of the families have filed a number of lawsuits against the federal government, alleging that [the OKC bombing(s)] was a sting operation or, at the very least, that the government was negligent — had some responsibility for what happened, perhaps had a degree of prior knowledge. It was a broader conspiracy, and they haven't been told the full truth.
The families [of the victims], many of them, are very angry. One family in particular, Glenn and Kathy Wilburn, who lost 2 grandchildren in the daycare center, conducted their own private investigation for 2 years. And they feel that the government covered up the true story; that it was a broader conspiracy, and that it was probably a sting operation that went disastrously wrong, and they've not come clean about it.
C-SPAN: Mr. Evans-Pritchard is a reporter, based in London. He spent some time here in Washington.
AEP: I did four-and-a-half years as the Washington correspondent for the London Sunday Telegraph. And I've now returned, and I'm writing about European affairs for the Daily Telegraph in London.
C-SPAN: Last Monday, syndicated columnist Robert Novak wrote this piece, "A Sting Operation Gone Awry." And he talks about Andreas Strassmeier, "a former West German army lieutenant illegally in the U.S." Who is he, and why is he important to the bombing?
AEP: Tim McVeigh telephoned him 2 days before the bombing, after he had called the Ryder Truck rental agency. And that's how he got drawn into the whole question of the bombing in the first place. [Strassmeier] spent 8 years in the German army. And he told me he'd had intelligence training and he'd done some intelligence work in the German army. And he came here with the intention of working undercover for the U.S. Justice Department. And he admitted that to me. So it's quite significant that he should figure as a character in the extended McVeigh circle. He's also been named by an undercover informant of the ATF, Carol Howe, as somebody who's stirring up race war and a terrorist campaign against the U.S. Government. Now with his background, I find it very hard to believe that he's a genuine neo-Nazi terrorist (which is how he presented himself.) I suspect that he was here on some kind of undercover mission; whether it was for the German government, or the United States Government, or both, I don't know. My own conjecture (I can't prove it) is that he was a joint asset, penetrating the neo-Nazi far right.
Yup that is what I believed to have happened as well. They certainly didn't have a hard time catching him after the bomb went off did they?
Regardless of what you believe it's obvious that we were lied too by the government about OKC, and as time goes on it will be more easier for people to accept that they were lied too by their government concerning 9/11
Thank you for mentioning the pre-text for the Afghanistan invasion, that gets forgotten all too often.
The wall came down for a while. I retired from the AF reserve in 2002. I did criminal investigations with the reserves for 18 yrs after I left the Agency. After 9/11 the walls did come down. There was an attempt to share everything. Meetings that were set up between city, county, state, Federal and military law enforcement and intelligence were fantastic. Leads local law enforcement gave when they saw middle eastern men doing something suspicious were great….like groups of middle eastern guys practicing with civilian style AK's not long after 9/11 that led to the arrest and conviction of some terrorists here in the NW. Under Dear Leader, holder and the lady luv'n Janet Napolitano I am sure local cops would be arrested for a hate crime if they investigated a gathering of middle eastern looking guys in the middle of the woods with a bunch of AK's and a ton of ammo.
One of the big problems pre-9/11 was the inability of computers operated by the CIA, FBI, etc., to "talk to each other" so a person at say, US Customs could run one search that would turn up all the information stored on a particular subject in all of the Federal data bases….the States and Local authorities are much better equipped to run a multi-agency search….local and state law enforcement agencies that is. From what I have read in the "press" and seen heard on the news, the problem at the Federal level still has not been fixed. I can understand the need to protect sources and methods, but there has to be a secure way to do an all agency search, quickly review and remove anything that would compromise a source or method of gathering the information and get it out to the user.
This is like the problem with satellite imagery during the Viet Nam war. One of my classmates in the Agency had been a Marine in at Khe San. During our first few weeks with the Agency we were given a tour of NPIC…National Photo Interpretation Center. After the tour he asked if they had any imagery of Khe San during Jan – May 1968. After a few minutes we were shown the photos and he was amazed at the detail…enemy gun emplacements, ammo dumps, etc….he even joked that he could see the bunker where he and his squad were located. Then he became very serious and a bit emotional. He was mad that many of his buddies had been killed attempting to locate the enemy positions when it was all shown in the photos. He blamed the marine commanders for not passing this down. The briefer told him not to be upset with the Marine brass, but during early 1968 there were only 3 or 4 Marines in all of Viet Nam cleared to get these photos. It was cutting edge technology at the time and our capabilities had to be kept secret. My classmate was silent…and then just looked at the briefer and said: "So all those guys I sent out on patrols to locate the enemy died because Marines could not be trusted with these photos? He just got up and waked out. We have the same situation here…..there is something that big brother does not want disclosed.
The truth is in the book….
Fortunately, it was only 18 months after OKC that Fox News Channel came to life. Before he leaves FNC, I hope Glenn Beck has a chance to review every recent historical event to see how badly the dinosaur media deceived us. He's been concentrating on current events. I don't often get a chance to watch his show, so maybe he has already covered OKC at some point.
Dang Bill, I thought you were pulling my leg….
I had not heard of this outfit….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Northe...
Ann
Nebulous spooky government agencies..
Clinton has always been pulling for the Ragheads to win.
Sadly Ann we are not nearly as safe as we used to be, here is part of a post I made over a year ago….
The posse comitatus act created in 1878 states “it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States to execute the laws of this nation without the approval of the congress of the United States”. In 2008 under Bush you know the one the MSM hates? Anyway this provision was severely diluted and obfuscated to make it theoretically possible to have our troops turned on us. Not one word of this was uttered in the MSM, not one word…
Another thing has me deeply troubled; we just had a massacre of our troops at Fort Hood by a Muslim nutbag terrorist. He was reported to have observed by numerous agencies of the federal government doing Un-American things. Excuse me but did we not hear from our President at the time that the multibillion dollar creation of the Homeland Security Department would tie all these agencies together? So that begs the question if that is not what they are there for, than what are they there for? I’ hope they are not Obama‘s shotgun behind the door. Wasn’t it Emanual quoting his hero Saul Alinskey, “not one crises to be wasted”?
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald...
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2008/10/po...
http://www.towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/91...
http://www.infowars.com/corporate-media-ignores-p...
A car and a truck=2 drivers.
One of Oklahoma's state representatives took great interest in this OKC bombing and put together a video. Detailing a list of questions and interviewing witnesses, this video was riveting.
1) A brigadier general and a munitions specialist was adamant that a truck bomb, parked on the curb, could NOT have blown out pillar #3 and caused such devastation.
2) Why did the seismograph readings at the Oklahoma University in Norman, Oklahoma register TWO blips, TWO explosions, on its graphs?
3) Witnesses testified that when the bomb squads appeared on the scene, within 20-30 minutes, several witnesses saw them load things ONTO the truck and later drive away.
With mounting evidence, many thought that the FBI was illegally storing amunition on the 9th floor and when McVeigh's bomb went off…..it detonated a chain reaction that, internally, knocked out pillar 3. Thus, the second explosion was massive and incriminating to the FBI needing cover-up. With a day-care center in the building, the government knew there'd be extreme public outrage if this information was known. I suspect that this was only one angle as the white male bomber was exploited as well.
is that Terry Nichols traveled to Indonesia one year before the despicable deed and guess who he had a meeting with
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A correction: Nichols traveled to the Philippines, where Ramzi Yusuf, from the WTC I bombing was living at the time, planning the Bojinka Plot. That's the plot where he planned to blow up multiple cross-Pacific airliners at one time.
The southern Philippijnes is home to Abu Sayyaf and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, known islamic terror groups, by whom Nichols was supposedly trained to make the truck bomb.
But yeah, I've always felt OKC was tied to Iraq through John Doe # 2. Saddam was pissed about Desert Storm and resulting sanctions and no-fly zones. He was known to work with islamic terror groups when they suited his purpose, even having the terrorist who planned the hijacking of the Achille Lauro (the kidnapping during which wheelchair bound Leon Klinghoffer was killed), Abu Abbas, given sanctuary in Iraq. He was silenced by Saddam shortly before Enduriong Freedom.
There's definitely a conspiracy there with OKC, and you don't have to be nuts to think it.
Being born and raised in Oklahoma, I can tell you…Okies are a hard core, flag waving, patriotic, God-loving, law abiding, family oriented, people. Right to work is so strong in the State that Acorn turned tail and ran, leaving behind files and computers in the dead of night, once they realized their agenda wasn't going to happen here. As it happens, one of the State's esteemed leaders just happened to come into possession of those puters, files, etc. Don't much think they'll be back to try again anytime soon. Just as well! (this was just prior to the 08 election)
The Sharia Law question is still being litigated. It's being challenged in the courts by a local Muslim physician. Time will tell…..
Dang again, Bill…Just what I need, another crisis. Only this one is scarier than most, because they are already here.
Remember Waco.
Ann
wldbil— always ahead of the curve.
Thank you Ann, I remain just another patriot who deeply loves his country.
As for WACO………….it was widely known Koresh had a very regular routine in that sleepy llittle town, he could have very easily have been picked up on one of his regular unarmed visits into the town to any one of the folks he met with…
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
Thomas Jefferson
I think the FBI could use you on their forensic investigative team. Wow! Great stuff, Missy!!
Bil.. This NORTHCOM info has me really worried..
"The constitution vests the power of declaring war in Congress; therefore no offensive expedition of importance can be undertaken until after they shall have deliberated upon the subject and authorized such a measure".
George Washington
I hope Congress is consulted prior to this "unit" doing Obama's bidding here in the States.
The Branch Davidians, Ruby Ridge, and Elian Gonzalez are the precursors of what a "NORTHCOM" unit could be capable of, only on a larger scale.
Ann
widbil for POTUS !
There isn't any chance we could have executed the wrong person.. is there? I will have to study up on the topic, it has been a long time. I cannot recall what Mcveigh said… if anything…… it is all so creepy really.
I met a Bomb Disposal specialist who went down to OKC. I had heard about "other bombs" I spent about 5 minutes asking and talking about that day, his training, what he runs into on a regular basis. I am very good about reading facial cues. When hit him with THE question and did they have to stop for more than one he admitted they had to stop numerous times, but they were all false positives. Any time Any thing looks out of place, they stop. My read was there were no bombs inside the federal building.
Now the time I chatted up a Stealth Fighter Pilot for five minutes about his experience with the stealth, his experiences during Iraq 1 and then asked him about his experience testing the Aurora… Now THAT was interesting. Even a highly trained Stealth Pilot blew that one…
Big bomb / IED, in a truck, parked on the roadside. That sounds like a familiar MO. Where've I heard of that before?
Oh, yeah… Iraq and Afghanistan.
Many unanswered questions about the Oklahoma City bombing.
A woman by the name of Janya Davis did tons of research on this story. She turned all of her info over to the FBI. They in turn did nothing to follow up on her findings. There's way more to this, than has been reported.
http://www.jaynadavis.com/highlights.html
http://www.jaynadavis.com/highlights.html
http://www.jaynadavis.com/highlights.html
The videos that this article referred to are from the cameras that cover the street in front of the building. One source said that another man besides McVeigh got out of the truck. Certainly a person of interest but never mentioned in news reports. Did McVeigh help to cover that up? Maybe so, what would you do if maybe, let's say your family were threatened? All this is speculation. What is not up for debate is the refusal – so far – of the government to release information that, by law, they should. I don't know anything about the Aurora.
McVeigh did it by himself.
Those buildings aren't built to withstand bombs.
He admitted it. He's dead. End of story.
Interesting speculation.
I hope she sells millions of books and is invited to be a paid guest on all the TR shows.
At this point in time, after 16 years, I'm still going with revenge, evil, and incompetence.
And will always wonder why the Islamists never took credit for the act, as they are always eager to do.
Ann
Conspiracies "theories" are God's gift to book sellers, so-called experts, and snake-oil salesmen.
Jayna Davis is the real deal. She's done an outstanding job of research on the Oklahoma City bombing, yet the FBI have totally dismissed her findings. Truly baffling.
)
Add, Bill Klintoon was just another Vince Foster, gone by the wayside, WTF moment!
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