ObamaCare: Death Panels Are a Real Concern After All
by Brian GarstIt was an article of faith among Obamacare supporters that worry over so-called death panels was simply a cynical ploy by conservative leaders to scare the peasants. Blatant fearmongering, they claimed. Now it’s looking more and more like a valid concern. Writing at the Daily Caller, Michael Tanner of the Cato Institute highlights quotes from Dr. Donald Berwick, President Obama’s nominee to be director of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which suggest that death panels might be on his wish-list.
“I am romantic about the National Health Service. I love it,” he has said about the British health care system. His favorite part of British health care seems to be its rationing arm, the National Institute for Clinical Effectiveness (NICE). NICE is responsible for determining whether or not the life-extending benefits a patient receives are worth the cost to the government. Dr. Berwick calls this institution a “global treasure.”
How much is a human life worth? About £30,000 per year, according to NICE. Anything more than $44,000 per year of extended life, and NICE is likely to deny treatment. Important drugs that prolong the life of cancer patients, such as Lapatinib and Sutent, are not allowed. Alzheimer’s drugs are also heavily restricted for those in the early stages of the disease despite the fact that the early stages are when treatment can provide the most benefit. Originally pitched as nothing more than a board to promote “best practices,” NICE has become a rationing, death panel machine.
Dr. Berwick thinks this system is so wonderful, we should implement it right here in America. “It’s not a question of whether we will ration care,” he explained in a magazine interview, “It is whether we will ration with our eyes open.” His idea of rationing with eyes open is when “collective action overrid[es] individual self-interest.” The individual he is referring to here, whose interests should not matter, is the patient. The collective action is the death panel.
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I wonder how they will rate those in government; oh wait they have their own system out side of the death panels!
ummmmm….. we told you so…….?
Hmmm…. seems to me that when Sarah Palin brought this up she was fear mongering. Since I predicted this would happen, I want to be set up as the Administration Miss Cleo.
more than $44,000 per year of extended life, and NICE is likely to deny treatment. Important drugs that prolong the life of cancer patients, such as Lapatinib and Sutent, are not allowed. Alzheimer’s drugs are also heavily restricted for those in the early stages of the disease despite the fact that the early stages are when treatment can provide the most benefit.
You must have skipped that part, mik.
Memo to Seniors:
Drop Dead.
The Federal Government.
I don't know why you people suffer this fool.
Maybe we can send the (unarmed) National Guard to our southers border and re-distribute important life-saving drugs to the crimaliens so they don't have to travel as far in their sickly condition
You have no choice.
Now how would you know any of this? I know, you read it on some right wing blog. Don't believe anything you read that has such a blatant partisan and financial interest. It's propaganda.
I would rather face my inevitable fate knowing that who ever was tasked with preserving my life had MY best interest at heart, whatever they may be, then the governments. Remember, ladies and gentleman, the government owes all of you a great deal of money and is broke, in the business we call that a motive, and now it will create incentives to kill as many of you as possible, at the benevolent hand of your own doctor. How far we have fallen from a once moral and proud people. Prior generations were promised security we are promised death.
hey troll, for someone who obviously hates the right tou sure do like to hang out with us alot. don't have any friends? nobody else will play with you? that's too bad. gee, it must really suck to be you.
Duuuuh! Repeal and replace! …we will remember come November!
Whatever the source, rationing is inevitable in government run health care, and you're lying to yourself if don't see that.
Dumbasses huh Mik? …and what does that make you?
All of you in AZ had better remember on primary day. Vote for Hayworth!!!
The Leftist masses out there will continue to deny such things will happen since all they can envision is a health care utopia through their rose colored glasses. Well, that is until they need medical treatment are told "sorry, it doesn't benefit society to keep you alive".
Right, lets go to PuffHo for the REAL news!!
Well said.
Mike, I have to know, did you like Rocky or Natasha as a child?
The ONLY way that universal health can work is if there is rationing of care. This fact is conveniently overlooked by the left. For you trolls out there answer the question on how our system will support 30 million new patients with no new doctors or hospitals without rationing….Still waiting for an intelligent response (or for Mickey, Randy, and Anon any response)
He lives in the kneewell of our dear leader's desk.
Rationing is not "death panels", and it is going on now. Every time your health insurance company denies a claim your health care is being rationed.
A beacon of light in a sea of darkness.
[...] 28, 2010 at 08:50 (General Stupidity, Health, News) Not shocking. The way these fools get away with it is to make fun of the idea – ‘Haha listen to the [...]
Of course she was fear mongering. It was a lie then and it's a lie now, so don't fall for it.
Excerpt from article in Washington Examiner today:
Since passage, reports have revealed that ObamaCare would cost over $1 trillion by any standard, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), not “merely” $940 billion as previously reported (while its total costs in its real first decade, 2014 to 2023, would continue to be well over $2 trillion); that ObamaCare has prompted major corporations to discuss dropping their employer-provided health-care plans; that businesses would have to file 1099s not only for every person to whom they pay $600 in wages but for every vendor with whom they do $600 in business, thereby imposing a paperwork nightmare and incentivizing companies to avoid doing business with a myriad of small firms rather than a handful of big ones; that ObamaCare would create 159 new federal agencies, offices, or programs; that the Obama administration’s Medicare Chief Actuary says ObamaCare would raise U.S. health costs by $311 billion in relation to current law and would shift about 14 million people off of employer-provided insurance — and some of them onto Medicaid; that ObamaCare’s would discourage employment, as — for example — hiring a 25th worker would cost a business $5,600 in addition to wages and benefits; that ObamaCare would impose a severe marriage penalty, offering additional subsidies as high as $10,425 a year if couples merely avoid marriage; that a lone provision in ObamaCare, which would penalize employers if their employees spend more than 9.5 percent of their household income on insurance premiums, would cut the net income of businesses like White Castle by more than half; that even though ObamaCare was supposed to get people out of emergency rooms and into doctors’ offices, those who build emergency rooms say the effect will be just the opposite and that they are gearing up for increased business; that doctors shortages are looming and would be accentuated by ObamaCare, both because more people would seek care (otherwise, what would the $2 trillion be buying?) and because fewer people would likely enter a demanding profession that would now promise greater restrictions and lower pay; and that President Obama’s nominee to head Medicare and Medicaid under ObamaCare is an open advocate of the British National Health Services’ NICE (National Institute of Clinical Excellence) and its methods of rationing care.
Read more at the Washington Examiner:http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/b...
an annoying little gnat.
No no no, that's only from the Republican arm of the gubment, let's keep it straight. We don't want to get Allen Grayson all fired up again, do we?
So you think these people are your friends? You don't even know their names. You are definitely a newby.
You have obviously never had to deal with nationalized health care. Until you have, don't presume to think that I don't know what I am talking about. I didn't "fall for it" I've seen it in action.
When my kids were teenagers they used words like "duh". Fortunately they outgrew it.
So you think that rationing will not result in government denial of service to elderly based on the cost of service? Pretty sure that's just a nicer way of explaining "death panels".
A festering boil that needs to be lanced, as long as it's approved by Obamacare.
Is that the deafening sound of crickets, wohlfguy?
Maybe they're not too worried about the death panels because the science czar wants to put sterilization chemicals in the drinking water. They can do that without all the hoopla and just cut it off at the pass!
I hear the sound of crickets rolling through the valley in a dessert where a man starved for truth has a name tag on it reads mikeatollah.
Oh, goody! It's you again. How about we show the world just how uninformed you really are.
In Oregon we have the already bankrupt Oregon heath plan. It has been held up as a LESS restrictive form of what we see in national health care reform. What our death panel did was to deny a woman the oncology drugs that would extend her life. Instead, they offered to pay for her assisted susicide. That's actually legal here. Although the courts over turned the death panel decision, it was too late for her. She died.
Do you really think that a bigger bureacracy will not do the same thing?
[...] Read Full Story >> BigGovernment [...]
The cynicism of Obama, Pelosi, et al, who sneer at anyone daring to question their flagrant lies about Obamacare's cost, will come back to haunt them in November. I pray that early 2011 isn't too late to repair the damage the Democrats have done with their stubborn embrace of unsustainable leftist nonsense… and hope they haven't twisted enough arms to ram through "comprehensive immigration reform" or Cap 'n Tax by then!
Then get a new insurance company. Oh, that right. Our government won't allow competition over state lines. Seems like an easier start to solving the "health care crisis".
Furthering your logic, these panels decide how much healthcare money they are going to spend on a retired government worker. If they deny treatment that would cost x amount of dollars, will they also factor in how much they would save when the patient dies and they no longer have to pay the retirees benefits? That would certainly reduce the cost of healthcare for all now wouldn't it? Now factor in how many people work for the government, at all levels. Gotta "bend that cost curve down", right Mr. Hope & Change?
First of all, health care reform is not a takeover of health care. The system is still managed by private insurers who will now have to meet some strict federal guidelines. Treatment decisions will still be made by you and your doctor like they are under Medicare or any other half way decent insurance policy.
C'mon, you can't seriously call that a "death panel". It's more like a "is it cost effective to give you the treatment you'll need to live panel". Totally different.
Care to comment on the former head of the CBO that came out in the media this morning with a non-partisian study that states that the so-called reform will cost three times as much as the present CBO scored?
Factor in the Docs that have already/will retire/change professions…
Natasha was beeeg trouble for moose and squirrel…
Yeah mik, "it must really suck to be you." But it's not nearly as bad as being around you.
You mean you didn’t abort your children? That’s very provincial of you Mik!
It is very simple, are you older, self-sufficient, conservative, Republican, against Oblama….you are not going to get any medical care from death panel
Liar. Your lying little anecdotes may work on righty but they won't work on the rest of us.
If anyone who has lived through the 80s and saw the images of what rationing is on tv (you know, Russians waiting in line for groceries), and they still want government controlling who gets what, then there is no help for them.
Nobody said a large portion of it still managed by private insurers. This is about where they "want" to go. Obama said in Iowa the day after the health care vote that it was the first step towards universal healthcare, and that they will get there.
Considering Medicaid / Medicare (which already deny more claims by percentage than the major insurance companies) are in financial trouble, it's inevitable, and the man Obama wants to run them is a big fan of the British system.
Adding more people to the government rolls in the future will not reduce the rate of rationing, it will make it more necessary.
I'm a retired military officer and my health care has been provided by the government for 35 years. Excellent care I might add.
[...] ObamaCare: Death Panels Are a Real Concern After All Posted on May 28, 2010 by U.S. Constitutional Free Press ObamaCare: Death Panels Are a Real Concern After All. [...]
Joe,
We and our economy are dead either way. We're just waitin to fall over.
In January the first wave of a frikkin Tsunami of boomers will start to hit the beaches. If every doctor now working stays on the job, and 60% of all grads go into medicine, if the insurance companies and big pharma and hospitals and clinics and med supply companies all agree to reduced prices back to 1960 levels, we STILL can't handle the coming wave of aging boomers.
If HC never sees the light of day, if everything stays EXACTLY AS IT IS NOW we're still screwed…
boomers cause despite no bacon or salt we'll STILL GET SICK and the workforce, because even WITH 100% EMPLOYMENT they can't, even at a 40% flat tax rate, sustain the medical cost as each succeeding wave hits. And this is WORLD WIDE, not just here.
In a word, Joe, we are FUBARD.
Well then you should have demanded it when Republicans were in power. But you did nothing because it's just a talking point. Insurance companies don't want interstate competition and Republicans do everything they want.
You are completely wrong. Health insurance is governed pursuant to the insurance policy, which is a contract between you (or your employer) and the insurance company. If a health insurance company denies a claim, it is doing so based on the language of the policy. It is not rationing. You can always pay more to get a policy with greater coverage if you want, or you can take the insurance company to court to have the scope of the policy coverage judicially determined. In contrast, a government panel would not be bound by contract law to provide coverage. It could deny coverage based on any apparent whim, including cost. That is rationing.
You didn't believe the CBO when they told you health care reform was paid for…. so why believe them now. Very convenient cherry picking of information that fits your worldview.
Yet again I will OWN you with facts.
Her name was Barbara Wagner. She used to be a REAL person. Look it up! The only lying going on here is you…to yourself.
http://www.disaboomlive.com/blogs/disabled_politi...
Joe,
I'd be really interested to know why. Seriously I only know McCain as "the guy from AZ" since I spent most of my life in Texas, and I know NOTHING about Hayworth. Why is he better? Is he better or just NOT MCCAIN? I'm serious.
I don't hear anything from either candidate but election year crap. So what's the reason Hayworth is better. Not that we have a choice, lol, Deakin can't win, but we can ALWAYS do worse. What's your take on Hayworth.
I actually don't mind him being here. I'd like him to keep civil but I welcome his opinion. I think he's wrong though. Actually we all know he's wrong. Too many people have heard the admin mid-level bureaucrats say that rationing WILL happen. That cat's out of the bag and it's not gonna go back in.
Wrong again. With the government setting strict caps on premium raises, it is inevitable that the private insurance market will be severely curtailed, if not eliminated completely. The Democrats have already stated a single-payer system is their goal. This is just the beginning of the road to that end. Moreover, with caps on physician reimbursement, no tort reform, and large debt loads, there will be a diminishing supply of new physicians to replace the physicians who will (rightfully) begin rejecting Medicare patients.
Nathan, you mean you actually read the bill instead of having an emotional, blind, dumb-ass response–? Great job! Mikatollah let his lying eyes deceive him. Liberal use emotion, conservatives think.
You don't even know me. And don't pretend you have ever been "around" me. You have let your emotions blind you to the fact that this is just a blog. So calm down and enjoy it.
Mornin C,
It would appear congress doesn't share that optimistic view of HC, given that they exempted themselves within the FIRST WEEK OF WRITING THE BILL.
Wonder what ELSE they know that we ain't found out yet?
No, and they all grew up straight… Stan.
When this bill is repealed, The American people MUST demand that all the benefits and perks awarded to office holders be repealed as well. They must feel the same pain as the rest of America. They are so disconnected and protected that no matter what this country goes through they continue to flourish at our expense. They work for us .We do NOT work them as they seem to think.
Death panels are just part of a larger plan by a new secret society similar to the Illuminati. This new society calls itself the Hoodrati.
I don't mind him being here either. Whenever I start thinking that maybe liberals aren't complete f*cking idiots, I come here and this doucherocket snaps me back to reality. He's very useful, like a hammer but not as smart…
Then you have never been to a civilian hospital. I have been to hundreds of hospital both active duty as a HM and a medic as a civilian, the worst hospitals are VAs. It is an embarrassment to the troops and veterans and you are an embarrassment and a traitor to the uniform. I cannot believe the Air Force actually gave you a commission or did they. Go back to HuffPo and dream about sucking off Soros.
Mikatrolla – link to article on Oregon health plan -http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/1852/Increasing...
RATIONING is major part of the plan. Look in the mirror for the liar
Wow, just wow. That's it? That's all you have?? "Liar"??
Are your parents still alive or have they died from disappointment yet?
My hope is that it does lead to universal, single payer system. This is a warning shot to the insurance industry. They get one last chance to make the private system work before voters get so fed up with the system they demand a single payer option. So as much as you hate reform, you better hope it works.
Rationing joke (coming soon):
Americans are standing in line day after day for what poor quality and small amounts of food, clothing, and medicine they can get. One guy is fed up and says to his friend. "That's it. I've had it. I'm going to kill Obama." He leaves and returns several hours later. His friend asks, "Well, did you kill Obama?" "No," his friend answers. "The line was too long."
Socialized medicine is an excellent death-care system – Government Controlled Genocide
/
Democrats = Progress-ism/Socialism = Marxism = Hell
He's probably lying his phony ass off about his service….
Why would I demand it? I pay for very good insurance already. Do you pay for insurance? I'm like 80% of the poeple in this country that are satisfied with our coverage. There never was a crisis. Rahmbo tipped his hand early on. Words mean things and he put his prancing toes right into his mouth.
Mikatrolla – link to news article confirming LostinOregons storyhttp://www.kval.com/news/26140519.html
Eat crow liar
"“I am romantic about the National Health Service. I love it,”"
Any medical doctor capable of saying such a thing should be stripped of his license. The British NHS is an ongoing atrocity.
And the home of the SLAVE
when republicans were in power, health care reform was ranked by most Americans as the 6th or 7th most important issue to them. After Obama started talking about it every day and made his entire presidency about it, it bumped up to about 5th most important for most Americans. Over 75% were HAPPY with their health care.
This is about ideological politics way more than it is about "the people". The "Republicans had their chance, just deal with whatever we want to do now" line is tired.
I used to be one of those fools. If I can learn to think, maybe others can too.
Sure we do. You're the stereotypical left wing nutbag that slurps down everything this administration tells him to. You're the ones trying to push us into a parallel of the EU, despite the fact that the EU is crashing. You're the guy that hates us just because we're conservatives, you accept no blame for anything and can never be wrong.
See? We know you just fine…
Tell me one country with a population of over a million where universal, single payer health care works. And back it up troll
like, you know, totally.
Yes there is trouble right here in river city, but for the moment that glass on the table is half full, I'm going to pour a little more water in it so hang on. We have been on the cusp of discovery and innovation for decades our medical advancements still draw the wealthy for treatment that they can receive no where else on Earth. This is the tip of a very big economic pyramid most sit at the bottom, and receive the benefits of this innovation a decade later – a decade to late for some – but our capitalistic system is present even in our medical markets, and it creates more capacity as people seek a profit. This is happening right now. Small example. There are many companies that will allow people who would be in nursing homes to live at home and be monitored by a central station, staffed with nurses and physician assistants, for much less than a nursing home! Got friends who do this. They live independently and the company makes a profit and then grows their business to seek new customers which relieves pressure on the wider system. Don't get me wrong – Obama by raising taxes and making all of this uncertainty in the legal and corporate markets – the son of a bitch is no friend to private enterprise – private enterprise is tenacious. As are we. Therefore, I will go back to poetry, "It is always darkest before the dawn, until that last star of wisdom is glimpsed by all who need to find their way."
I disagree. Insurance companies are in business to make a profit, not to provide you with health care. This conflict of interest is always settled in favor of profit or they are out of business. I think the private insurance system could have worked, but as soon as it became a for-profit enterprise in the 70s it was doomed to failure.
The industry spends over a billion a year investigating claims for reasons to deny your claim. It pays off handsomely because every claim they deny is instant profit.
props for having a sense of humor
What do you mean like curvature of the spine…oh! …you mean not g_y…sorry! That’s to bad Mik better luck next time.
say no to socialism……….repeal the law !!!!!!!!!!!!!
You confuse your right wing spin with facts.
Sure Stanley, that's what I meant.
Why do you insist it's all about the insurance companies? They have TINY profit margins and are completely subject to industry costs.
The only thing you can really blame them for is having monopolies in states allowing them to avoid tailoring policies to peoples needs, and that's one thing that should be deregulated.
Lawyers, medical manufacturers, pharmacists, lack of competition are far more culpable than the greedy evil insurance companies. Why do you sit it entirely at their feet?
Well, J,
Someone needs to give Pelosi's district that memo. Looks like she's not only a shoe in for re-election, but she will retain her Speakership position as well.
And you think dems in DC are moving to the left at light speed now….wait till after Nov when the so called "purge" fails to stop Pelosi. Face it, left loons WILL foist themselves on their own petard…if for no other reason than to make a melodramatic point.
When the remaining 5000 rational taxpayers flee California, they and their "fuck the farmers, we got a 2 inch fish to save" brigaide will finish off the state economy while Pelosi goes into warp drive, heads for the closet again, and bulldozes through every airheaded policy, program and law that brought the once wealthy state of California to it's fiscal knees.
No sense in it whatsoever, but this is ideological warfare. And lefties will cut off their collective fiscal nose to spite their face. They're right now continuing to pass fiscally unsustainable legislation even in the face of impending default.
Why would we expect them to change? If default isn't a wake up call it's because they're not sleeping.
They're frikkin zombies.
Have you been to a VA hospital lately? They are providing our veterans with excellent care.
Hi TS,
Between Hayworth and McCain it boils down to the lesser of the two evils. McCain on far too many occassions leaped across the aisle to do deals with the devils. He was at the forefront of the amnesty deal in Bush's day and only took a 'secure the border first' after he got literally pummeled by his constituents. Hayworth on the other hand while he is likely to become another deal maker in congress and enjoy the trappings of the office is at least very solid on the border. He lost his seat in the House because of the immigration backlash to Harry Mitchell and we have suffered for that. I do believe he will at least be a fiscal conservative and be more dependable on immigration than McCain, but certainly not my favorite pick.
Yeah, I know what they say – "opinions are like A-holes, and everyone's got one". This A-hole has every right to comment on whatever he wants, but for me, life is too short to suffer fools. I just thumb them down and move on.
Great question. I voted for McCain. I wrote a long letter as to why, will post one day when I figure out how to do one of those blog sites. Sum up. Command experience, faced the fire of failure as well as the raw power of the federal government, that has got to make a man wise, and abortion, guns. Now I'm advocating for Hayworth. Why? Hayworth is solid on abortion and guns, and is not going to sacrifice the country in an effort to have a secure job. McCain did. Both parties are trying to placate a new voting block without it being too painful, as you so aptly point out you can't have an open door policy on an entitlement program, any more than you can run a bar by giving free beer to both the ladies and the gentleman, pretty soon you'll run out of ladies and beer!
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Speaking as a Canadian, I can't imagine why anyone in the US would want our system. The waiting lists for even simple diagnostic procedures are enough to kill you…literally.
Three years ago a family member was experiencing abdominal pain. It took three months before they could be scheduled for an MRI. The diagnosis – inoperable pancreatic cancer. Then, the health care system stepped up. It was able to provide a hospital bed during a horrifying 5 month degression, finishing up with a nice stay in a Terminal Hospice, the kind of place that the patient never walks out of.
We Canadians are used to having the US as a backup to our single-payer government run healthcare system. The number of wealthy people, senior politicians and desperate people that go the US each year probably keeps one and a half Mayo clinics in business. I don't know where they will go once Obamacare starts up.
And I forgot to mention doctors having to charge non medicare/medicaid patients more for services because they make NO MONEY on medicare/medicaid. Insurance companies don't do that, they just react to the bill being larger.
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