Licensing Gone Wild: Monks Face Jail for Selling Caskets
by Bob EwingAbbot Justin Brown and his fellow monks are being threatened with crippling fines and even jail time. Their crime? Selling caskets.
Today, they are fighting back in a big way.
In 1889, a group of monks from Indiana fulfilled their dream of establishing a monastery in the Gulf South. The monastic lifestyle they embody is simple and contemplative. Their creation, the Saint Joseph Abbey, has had a powerful and positive impact in Louisiana.
For several centuries, monks have supported themselves financially by excelling at common trades such as farming and brewing beer. The monks at Saint Joseph Abbey have been able to preserve and maintain their quiet lifestyle through farming and harvesting timber.
The monks make simple wooden caskets in which to bury themselves. In the early 1990s, Bishops began requesting the caskets, which led to inquiries from other interested people. The demand continued to build: People were eager to share in the monks’ view of the simplicity and unity of life and death through burial in a simple monastic casket.
As Abbot Justin Brown puts it:
The monks of Saint Joseph Abbey have been making caskets for over a hundred years. People who ask for them want to share in that noble simplicity that our coffins express. We’re not a wealthy monastery and we need the income that Saint Joseph Woodworks could generate for the health care and the education of our own monks.
On November 1, 2007, the monks opened their Saint Joseph Woodworks. But before they could sell even one casket, they were threatened with crippling fines, jail time and even a lawsuit.
Why?
Because the Louisiana funeral industry cartel had no interest in the competition. Even from a small group of monks.
To sell caskets legally, the monks would have to convert their monastery into a “funeral establishment” which means adding all sorts of needless equipment for things like embalming human remains. Further, the monks would have to apprentice with a cartel member for a full year and then take a government-approved casket test.
Keep in mind, a casket is just a box.
Curiously, in Louisiana it is perfectly legal to bury a human body straight into the ground. You can also wrap a bed sheet around a human body and bury it. And you can make your own casket. Or you can use a casket made by a friend or stranger – so long as you don’t pay for it.
But it’s illegal to pay for a casket…unless that casket is made by a member of the cartel.
This March, the State Board of Embalmers and Funeral Directors subpoenaed two members of the Saint Joseph Abbey – Abbot Justin Brown and Deacon Mark Coudrain. If found guilty, the Abbot and Deacon will be subject to 180 days in jail and thousands of dollars in fines.
To clarify: The funeral cartel in Louisiana is attacking monks that make simple caskets for people that want them, which helps cover the cost of the monks’ monastic lifestyle. And for the “sin” of selling these caskets, the monks face crippling fines and even jail.
If monks are being attacked, nobody is safe.
Economic liberty is important to everyone. Yet countless entrepreneurs today are being kicked out of work or threatened with fines and jail because powerful industry insiders have teamed up with politicians to make laws that create cartels.
Thankfully, the monks are fighting back. Today, they teamed up with the Institute for Justice – the nation’s leading legal advocate for economic liberty – to file a major federal lawsuit.
This case has powerful national implications because it focuses on one of the most important unresolved questions in constitutional law: May the government suppress your basic right to earn a living simply to protect a politically powerful group from competition?
Our courts are split on this issue. The 6th and 9th Circuit courts have said that protectionism is unconstitutional. But the 10th Circuit court holds that protectionism is not just constitutional, but a “national pastime” of state legislatures.
The 5th Circuit – which includes Louisiana – has been silent. The monks’ case presents an ideal opportunity for the Supreme Court to finally address the constitutionality of economic protectionism – a terrible practice that affects countless Americans every day.
As IJ Senior Attorney Jeff Rowes says in the video above:
The brothers of Saint Joseph Abbey are ready to go all the way to the Supreme Court if that’s what it takes to restore economic liberty to grassroots entrepreneurs everywhere.
We are confident that the monks will win this case. And in doing so, they will vindicate important principles of liberty. Simply put, everyone deserves the freedom to earn an honest living free from arbitrary and outrageous government regulations.
For more on the monks’ lawsuit, click here.
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188 Comments
Silly people, licensing is for non-union capitalists, Christians and Jews. It does not apply for unions, Marxists, statists, progressives, or Muslims.
Now that you have that figured out, everything will be fine. /sarc
as Josie Wales once famously said…
'Dying ain't much of a living, boy'. And Free Market Monks are not the solution to the funeral industry. So they say.
But no one should be surprised by this; territorialism exists pretty much everywhere. Try to import ethanol. See where THAT gets you.
These guys just need to go back to beer…
That article is disheartening.
I know of several similar circumstances regarding the Amish, and the Hutterites here in Montana where the same thing has happened.
Big Brother knows best.
Apropos given that we're increasingly witnessing the death and burial of free enterprise and competiton in this country.
The poor monks need a Union. It's simple and clear that the only way to do anything in the US is now to belong to large groups. A monk union would solve their problem. Pay your dues and the govt will leave you alone. Monks are no safer than 7 year olds who are enterprising. But then they might lose their voting voice. Lol
Please We the people need some sanity from our gvt be it local or national. We are stuck on stupid and I am not seeing any relief in sight.
Good luck to the monastery I hope they win, it will be one for all of us.
Another example of mecantilism choking off the free market. Reagardless of the opposing business being staffed by monks or just regular businessmen makes no difference in my mind. The funeral home directors simply paid money to corrupt officials to have a legislative monopoly enacted. While I understand that prudent regulations are needed in business (like required inspections in the airline industry) those listed here are merely barriers to market entry. Mercantilism needs to be fought and abolished at every instance.
Big brother is watching you.Obama will never leave us alone.
I use stories like this whenever I am in an argument with someone who "wants the government to do X" by pointing out that giving them the power to do X means giving them the power to abuse Y.
The best solution, of course, is cut the government down to it's legal authority under the Constitution and WE are empowered to do X and the government has no authority to abuse Y.
Obamascare forces us to buy the Plan. I guess forcing us to buy a casket from certain companies is gubment control.
No doubt, some statist will come along and say, "Well, the monks' intentions seem innocent and laudable enough. The government should make an exception for them."
That, my friends, is the road to tyranny; it's just the scenic route.
"and then take a government-approved casket test"
I hope they don't try to build their own lemonade stands. Then there will be hell to pay.
I wonder if they could get around the whole thing by making coffins for people with a suggested "donation" amount instead of outright charging for the casket?
I can say my religion wants a simple wood coffin or burned on a pyre, but unlike the some, I am not permitted to claim a dark ages rite to justify my faith.
Big business loves big government.
What more needs to be said?
Between death taxes and licenses, there just has to be a death line of some sort. Everyone will have to take a number just to die! Pathetic!
"and then take a government-approved casket test" . . . and would the Democrat party please step inside…
Not to add injury to insult, but I sure hope this little monastery is wheelchair accessible………
We're headed to A Boy & His Dog, and these UNION GHOULS are fighting over the corpses for one last meal.
That's right, I can hear the stupid government now…..oblahblah will say (reading off his teleprompter of course) – "this casket fails inspection because the dude will get out".
Yes, because no doubt the funeral industry donates heavily to the socialists not realizing that when their takeover is complete, they'll be just worker bees for the state helped put into power.
This is one the big issues I had with the industry before I left.
In Texas, one can have a casket store, but it used to be that the owner needed to be a licensed funeral director. I believed that they changes this, But the casket manufacturers, York, Aurora, Batesville, etc., would not sell to independent stores. So, anyone opeing a store just had to make friends with a funeral home owner.
What happend at one of the places I worked was, we called the warehouse, and they delivered the casket to us. We then "sold" it to the casket store who would come and pick it up. The Manufacturer knew aboout it but had no issue. As long as process was followed they were fine.
It reminds me of a "riverboat" casino that has to be over water, but not a boat. And because of the Corps of Engineers they can't be on the river. So they just build an artificial lake on the river front and build basically a pier over it.
Stupid rules, but then again someone always can find a way around it.
( I got in trouble at the same place, for selling cremation caskets for burials. Difference? materials and price. It was ok for us to sell to a discount casket store, but if I tried to help a family with a tight budget, I got reprimanded.)
"Keep in mind, a casket is just a box."
Fill them with packing peanuts and sell them with a wink and a nod.
Perhaps a free casket for every member of Congress to be used in 2010. I will drive over and help them build them!
Last week I touched upon a topic that dovetails nicely with this one, and it comes to mind again today. Early this morning, before the heat of the day, I was again in the garden, and picked some things. A five gallon bucket of beans, and five gallons of corn, five gallons of cucumbers and ten gallons of tomatoes, and packed them all into the summer kitchen for whomever draws the short straw for kitchen duty today. (Sounds like I have my own little "collective" here, but if you want to eat, you have to work).
My question is this, how much of this do I have to send to Washington, DC, to the Big Collective, and do I need a special permit for this un-governed activity? Can I send these veggies COD to Barrack and MooShelle, at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue?
Someone help me out here before they rot………..
I'd be just fine with letting liberal trolls dish in line…..
We cannot stand for this type of governmental intrusion into our free market, entreprenurial system. If this injustice persists they will even go so far as to require a license for the 'lemonade stand' run by little boys and girls,,,,,,,too late, that has already happend.
The new rules for representtion in congress:
1. Form a UNION
2. Charge usurious dues
3. Promise unreasonable benefits
4. Embezzle funds from the pension accounts
5."CONTRIBUTE" to your local representatives
6.Demand their support or you will cut off contributions to their campaign
RULE OF THUMB:
Every $1 of campaign contributions = $100 of ear marks / bailouts,,,,and for leaders of congress
Every $1 of campaign contributions = $1,000 of ear marks / bailouts
Big business and big government ought to be banned from that strange bedfellow thing…..
well, all who bash obama on this take a back seat. this is politicians as a whole who created this case. it started when the infantile obama was a mere freshman senator, making his bones by bashing bush over the war in iraq, ironically the same war he is now trying to take credit for. but, this is a case of crony politics, pure and simple. there is this story of the monks trying to make an honest living, not bothering anybody. and in steps the government trying to shill for union casket makers, just like good old louisiana does for sugar growers. chicago was once candy capital of the world, now most if not all have left, because of sugar tarriffs making it too costly to make a candy bar. look at the stupid system of canals in new orleans, they all have districts, with more government workers who line thier pockets, people of n.o. get screwed. hopefully jindahl can fix this dumb law.
I hope people can see how right you are. The American system of justice relies on respect for the rule of law. When a law is found to be unjust, we don't "make exceptions," we change the law. But we've allowed government to "compromise" the enforcement of law at their OWN DISCRETION. For anyone that doesn't see the problem with this, it means explicitly that there is no longer ANY respect for the "rule of law." There is only the arbitrary rule of a tyrannical government.
"Just covering the costs of the packing peanuts…" wink nod
Before getting too weepy about the monks: Monks live in what are essentially communes. Their room and board are provided for them. Monks, themselves rarely earn an actual living. Wages, if any, are usually token wages, not a living wage. This can allow abbeys to unfairly compete against businesses which employ wage-earners. If they are complaining based on the monks' "basic right to earn a living," then they should determine to what degree their employer/employee relarionship with the abbey distorts that first. If the monks all have an equal ownership interest, then all well and good. If not….
Breweries, which converted to malt syrup factories during prohibition, made sure the labels on their product bore a warning much like the following:
DANGER: Do not combine the contents of this container with 3 gallons of water and yeast, leave in a dark corner for three weeks, loosely capped, then bottle with a pinch of sugar. Beer may result!
And Big Government loves Big business, the laws of reciprocity prevail
I'd take that to the next level.
Corrupt business loves corrupt government.
LOL
Free…….Trade! …..and Willy, too!
Have you been living under a rock? The new HCR has the answer: If you need to see a doctor or have a test for a life threatening condition,,,,,you have to take a number and stand in line to see the doctor,,,,,who after diagnosis will determine that the life saving procedure is not warranted in your case because of:::::fill in the blank: too old, too fat, your a smoker, you are a drinker, you consume too much transfat, you're a conservative,,,,,,,
Hmmm. Not bad thinking. How about, "We're not selling caskets. We're selling large, wooden storage containers."
Big Brother can kiss our grits.
great book, horrible movie starring a young Don Johnson
You have a curious definition of free enterprise.
These poor simple monks. "The monks at Saint Joseph Abbey have been able to preserve and maintain their quiet lifestyle through farming and harvesting timber." Riiiiighhhhhtt.
How fortunate that these self-sacrificing monks have tax-free farming and timber harvesting, in order to undercut local for-profit businesses. If they didn't have these, they would have to get by on the funeral plots they market to the public (tax free), the seminary college that they operate (tax free), the 40-room hotel, er, I mean Christian Life Center (tax free) and the giant pimped out gift store they operate (tax free). Ah, to be a humble monk, living on a verdant campus (tax free).
So now they're ticked off that they can't sell caskets to the public?
These sorts of abuses, which pit tax-free businesses against taxed businesses, are a far bigger problem for economic freedom than the protectionist racket of the Louisiana funeral industry. By all means, open up the market. But if you want to compete with taxed businesses, pay taxes.
Yes I think you have something,,,,they are selling 'shipping crates' to people on their final journey.
Guilds and their destructive effects have been around for centuries. They were and are nothing more than attempts by various craftsmen to dominate the market, and prevent competition from even developing. They were broken once, back in the early 19th century, as industrialization developed and the concept of free trade spread, but like any good scheme for making money they have gradually forced their way back to power.
They are, truly, nothing but a medieval relic that should be done away with once and for all.
'Freedom? Earn an honest living?' Surely you jest. Dictators and Socialists will never allow that. THEY must be the ONLY ones in control. Don't believe me? Ask the Narcissist in Chief? or his pals-
Pelosi/Reid/Rham/Holder/Clinton/JohnMorton/P.J.Crowley/Graham/Snowe/Kagan/Collins/Gregg/Czars/Alinsky/the book "Rules for Radicals"/ Foreign Dictators/ Hugo/Soros/Pres.Caderone of Mexico/most Dems/RINOs, etc etc………….
make sure that all the produce is properly labeled with FDA approved minimum daily requirement labels,,,I don't want you getting into trouble with Meeshells new food police
ALL of the state and federal govt needs to GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE WAY!!!
These monks make a good product and want to trade their labor and skills to take care of themselves and be left alone. More power to them.All they want is a simple life and a way to meet their simple needs.
The same is true for all the rest of us…if these progressive/socialist/protectionist would get out of the way
the US peoplewould be the powerhouse the founders gifted us to be.
I'm livid!!
income that Saint Joseph Woodworks could generate for the health care and the education of our own monks.
How dare they pay for their own healthcare instead of demanding the state pay for it! No wonder they have to be stopped!
is it agin their creed to arm themselves and go undertaker huntin'??? those clammy handed funeral parlor jackasses charge their customers waaaaay more than necessary and own all of the po-lice, judges and the scumsuckin' politicians…the monks must trust in god working in a mysterious way to save their bacon…but brewing beer sounds good to me….hmmmm do they have a tasting room????
Friend of mine passed away last week. He had already purchased a monastery-manufactured casket. Funeral director was none too pleased and pressured hard for an upgrade. Lucky that Bob had made very clear that he wanted to be buried in that particular casket. The cartels are protecting a racket.
I can honestly say that it is the best Don Johnson movie I've ever seen. Of course, it was the ONLY one of his movies I've seen, but I didn't think that it was that awful. It's a cult classic.
50% but make sure it is rotten before you ship it.
And BTW, what would our government's reaction be if the casket builders were mooslims?
If these people will hunt down little girls and Monks, it is time to stand and fight.
As DCASE said in an earlier post 'Dying ain't much of a living, boy' If we are not fighting for our Liberty, it is surely going to die. Time to bring the American Spirit out of the background and get to work on fixing this mess and taking out of power those who would rule us.
FREEEDOMMMM!
Heh. He's done some other decent work. He's actually a rather decent actor overall.
And I love A Boy and His Dog too.
I can kinda see why Ellison is upset about the last line, but other than that, its great fun.
This isn't just some monks. EVERYBODY is subject to the same cartel monopoly.
But I agree. The monks are competing with a special tax exempt status.
But EVERYONE has to deal with this cartel which is cronie capitalism.
I don't agree the religious example is the bigger issue. These clubs are all over. Flower growers for example. Cable TV is states with monopolies. Its a much much bigger issue. In fact its one of the basis for classic liberalism. In the 1700s there were thousands of guilds, cartels, clubs… all creating monopolies and those monopolies upheld by the government. Liberalism challenged those since those were obstructions to the expansion of liberty.
What you're seeing is cronie capitalism. I don't feel sorry for the monks cause they get special treatment but certainly this effects ALL PEOPLE who attempt to sell caskets.
let the tomatoes go rotten cuz i'd like to use'em to hurl at the Kenyan in Chief on his next stump speech. You'd give me a good deal, eh?…..grin
"Riiiiighhhhhtt"
People like you prove every day just how ignorant "progressives" are in so many ways. What if I, as a free market consumer, decided that I would like to purchase a low-cost, humble wooden casket from a monastery that I would like to support with my money? Only a "progressive" tyrant would imagine that government should have the power to take that choice away from me.
You see, a working free enterprise system doesn't just protect the rights of business. It also protects the right of the consumer to spend their own money as they see fit. In fact, that's what makes the system work.
If you don't like that, I'm sure Chavez would be happy to welcome someone with your "progressive" attitude.
AMA, American Bar Association, what else?
I want to say two things:
1. I hope and pray that they win their lawsuit and politicians learn that they cannot enact regulations and fees that prevent ambitious entrepreneurs from attempting their visions, and
2. WHEN they win and are vindicated by the Supreme Court………AMEN!!!!
<a href="http://www.cafepress.com/politicalstckrs” target=”_blank”>www.cafepress.com/politicalstckrs
Yes Progressing isn't arguing from a position of fairness. He's arguing from a position of "how dare someone NOT pay taxes". And I seriously doubt the monks are making some grand amount of money from making caskets. He ignores the bigger cartel picture.
That sucks– you can buy caskets on line — great prices too! Funeral directors are cheats, and have it rigged to make the suddenly bereaved pay huge prices for these things — rip off. Top of the line $1500-$2000 steel ones, they sell it to you for $7500.
But, why can't they sell them out of state and online? They're merely making them there. Sell them across the state line and haul them back. Not their fault where it ends up.
.
That is a brilliant idea! Storage boxes!
"He ignores the bigger cartel picture"
I would say that in order to "ignore" anything, one has to actually be "aware" of a thing. The fact is that "progressives" could be put in a room filled with nothing but truth, and all they'd do is stumble around like blind men in a strange house.
In Maryland, one can not be a licensed painter unless you pass a licensing test… Same test that home improvement contractors take (for major home improvements). One can not even apply to take the test unless they have 2 years prior experience and 1 of those years under a licensed contractor. Rediculous red tape in order to simply paint walls legit.
That's a State run Cartel if you ask me!
They need to set up a donation website. I'd donate!!!
Constitution has defined the authority of the government. However lax citizens (all of us) and corrupt Politicians have destroyed those limits. The Politicians do what they want when they want. I'm fed up with it.
Well Put!
Just like people legally applying for a VISA to come visit the USA from Argentina (my wife's sister for example)… she has to get a passport, apply for the VISA, get the VISA and travel here. However, the Democrats don't require the same for Mexicans who cross the border ILLEGALLY. There's a blatant exception to the LAW right there!
Suggestions:
Join the Casket club and get a free casket!
Order a new bible and we'll ship it in a "life-sized" casket free of charge!
Change the name from "casket" to "Body Suitcase"
I'm pretty sure its against the law to grow your own wheat!
I'm the ignorant one? You can't even read. I've been paid millions to understand economics. You?
"What if I, as a free market consumer, decided that I would like to purchase a low-cost, humble wooden casket from a monastery that I would like to support with my money?"
That should be your right. But in the big picture, if you are supporting a tax-exempt organization with a lower cost structure than a for-tax business, you are crowding out private enterprise. It is exactly the same crowding out mechanism that can occur when government gets too big. The end result will be less competition, fewer choices and higher prices. Your "low-cost, humble wooden casket" will still be humble, but it will be very expensive because there will be no other companies out there to compete away excess profits. End result: Consumer gets screwed because of a government introduced distortion (allowing tax exempt organizations to compete with private enterprise), which is what you are allegedly against.
If you need any more economics lessons, let me know. I like working with special needs students.
Ok AGAIN you ignore the bigger picture of the cartel that uses gov to create a monopoly.
Yes you are 100% correct gov distortions cause less competition and screw customers but you blindly think the tax exempt issue is the bigger issue which its not. Its the cartel monopoly that has used gov to make barriers for entry and barriers to compete that create the massive gov distortions.
Lets drop the monks for a second. Lets say instead its just a family company that wants to make caskets. So all the blocking and barrier rules STILL apply.
Did you read the list of barriers that the cartel put into place? That entry into the market place is practically IMPOSSIBLE. An entry company has to have an already existing casket company as their mentor for at least a year then pass gov tests, probably established by existing companies.
So even though your tax exempt argument as some merit the fact is the vast major problem here is the cronie capitalism used by the existing casket companies to prevent entry and competition.
THIS IS THE BIGGER PROBLEM. It is all over the place and greatly out weighs some small tax exempt issues. Did you know in Louisiana the flower arranging industry is just as cartel and cut throat. So are cable companies that command monopolies and block entry into the market place.
Seriously Prgressing you could stand in front of charging elephants and only notice the mouse. How can you ignore the far greater problem of cartels, guilds, clubs etc that command special entitlements from gov?
I remember we wanted to get a casket for a halloween gig. We thought it couldn't be more than $100. Turned out to be over $1200. But we could rent a steel coffin for like $100 and they delivered and picked it up.
Exactly. That's why I gave up being a progressive a long time back. Nearly 99% of what they are is "find the negative angle" and just disagree. They don't think things out, they just look for some way to disagree and spew.
Wow, a one year internship and a test? Those are some high barriers to entry alright. You've got to be kidding me. It takes more work to get a taxi license.
I haven't and don't defend the funeral home industry. But they at least have a case to make: They face significant educational costs, licensing costs, insurance costs, health and safety regulations — all of which are in the best interests of society. They need to make a decent margin somewhere.
Per my CPA roomie:
Religious institutions as non-profits pay income taxes on unrelated income such as bingo, etc. Selling coffins would fall under this rule, so yes, monks, nuns, imams, rabbis, etc. and their religious institutions do pay taxes when they make profits on farm produce, wine, carvings, etc.
"I've been paid millions to understand economics"
Hahahaha. Yeah, Larry Summers has been paid millions to "understand economics" too. Let's ask Harvard and the Russians how that "understanding" worked out for them.
And yes, you are the ignorant one. Your "understanding" of economics may be valid in a centrally planned and controlled economy, but you have NO understanding of how a truly free market operates. You want "protectionism" through tax policy and regulation to insulate government-approved industry from unequal competition from a tax-exempt operation. But here's a little lesson for you on free market economics.
If a company that builds caskets, operating in a free market, sees that a monastery has found a niche market for their "humble, wooden boxes," they are free to assemble and market their own version of the "monastery casket." And because of innovation and manufacturing ability, they would most likely be able to offer that product at a lower price than even the tax-free monastery. And that is exactly what they would do if it weren't for protectionist governmental policy that makes it easier to just shut down the "competition."
The fact is that it is your animosity toward free market capitalism that belies your "understanding" of American economics. But like all "progressives," there just is no cure for your selective blindness, nor for your animus toward anything "American." And it just doesn't matter to you that your version of centrally planned, protectionist intrusion into business has failed EVERY TIME IT HAS EVER BEEN TRIED, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.
I pity you.
You have got to be shitting me, right?
So then what, family farms are competing unfairly again agricorps for the same reasons?
After all, the family members have their room and board provided for them. They don't earn an actual living. Wages, if any, are just token wages.
Sure, it sounds all well and good in principle if we just phrase as something those "communes" are up to in order to take advantage of decent, upstanding capitalists, but if we look at it carefully we see just how far the same definitions apply.
People are entitled to form their corporations on any terms the members are willing to agree to, with reasonable consideration for safety standards. That includes communes, whether secular or religious. Otherwise the free market isn't.
Again, I make my living understanding the markets. And you better hope that I know what I'm doing, because odds are, your 401K rides on me knowing how markets operate.
You are naive and, based on your inanity, just arguing for the sake of it. Free markets exist only in text books. Without regulation, competition fails. A great competitive professional football game is possible only because someone has created the rules; hired, trained and empowered the refs; built the stadium, and created the level playing field. There are elements of pure competition — like who makes the starting lineup — but the entire enterprise has a guiding hand.
Since free markets are never really free, without regulation they quickly devolve into oligopolies and monopolies. America learned this at the turn of the 20th century. Ever play monopoly? Over time, small advantages turn into overwhelming disparities and inequities.
Markets, even nearly free markets, also fail. Pollution is a great example. Markets can't price it, because it is never purchased as an input. If the final cost of a product to the consumer does not reflect pollution created, then those costs are pushed off on society through poisoned air and water, instead of being borne by the manufacturer. This is called an externality. It requires government regulatory intervention. Cap and trade is one way of using market economics to allocate these costs fairly. Again, look back at the laissez faire days of the early 20th century. Without government intervention, you'd still have sweat shops and child labor. (in fact, we still do, but we now exploit third-world children instead of our own, but that is another story).
Do you want funeral homes to be able to sell body parts? Do you want mom and pop drug companies springing up to market any chemical they like, whether it has been proven or not? In many cases, government has a legitimate interest in distorting the market, as long as it can show that the distortion can reasonably be expected to do more for society than it costs in inefficiency.
That is not animosity toward free market capitalism. It's called understanding, clear-eyed realism and maturity. You have the cartoon understanding of economics and markets that is all too common among Fox News conservatives. You think everything is black and white, when the serious business occurs between those who can distinguish greys. It is your simplistic, unrealistic worldview that will make it impossible for Republicans to govern (and to please their zany Tea Party base) if they ever regain power. The reality of the world is going to crash headlong into their naive, utopian worldview.
I hope they don't try to build their own lemonade stands. Then there will be hell to pay.
Interesting! I recently saw a report on some kids who had a lemonade stand. The local Gov shut them down because they did not have a permit. In other words they did not pay off the local politicians. Probably ones like here in So Cal who have been caught bankrupting the City of Bell to the cost of over 1.5 million per year to run the city part time. Personally, it is time the pay of the politicians requires the vote of their constituents.
Do you understand what moral hazard is? So you have to intern with your COMPETITOR then pass the tests your COMPETITOR set up just so you can build some simplistic box. There should be NO BARRIER and certainly NOT one created by their competitors.
And on top of it they have to convert their business to a full mortuary with cremation equipment that has NOTHING TO DO with making simple wooden boxes but establishes such a high price point for entry that no one can enter. Can you afford several thousand in embalming equipment you will never use to create wooden boxes?
WHY do they face all those costs? Who is the MORON who imposed those costs… government and the industry itself for the sole purpose of making entry so stiff that nobody without $$$ can gain entry. And NONE of those "standards" are in the best interest of society. Nearly all safety regulations (huge costs in equipment, time and effort) and entry barriers.
So you don't think some small POOR (POOOOOORRRRRRR) group of people shouldn't be able to make SIMPLE WOODEN BOXES to sell for body disposal? So the barrier is strict enough that some poor person cannot start a business selling something like a wooden box for bodies?
Regulations, standards that are gov enforced are tools used by existing industry to prevent entry. There is your gov distortions.
Perhaps a free casket for every member of Congress to be used in 2010.
What a waste of wood. A cockroach in a box.
When government gains the authority to command licensing/permitting in order to exercise what are rights, Liberty dies and tyranny reigns.
That is the case all across this country today. You must gain permission to peaceably assemble. You must gain a permit to own and in many cases carry a firearm. Heck, in Illinois there is no way to even get permission to carry a firearm. It is 100% illegal (a punishable felony) to do so even though the Supreme Court has recognized what the Second Amendment means.
First Amendment? Second Amendment? Rights? Nope, just the illusion that they exist. We are all slaves until such time as we openly reject the tyranny that reigns over us today. Such is Democracy.
The way to Liberty is via the Republic. Stand up for it. Stand up for the monks and everyone else who aims to exercise their own rights.
"You have a curious definition of free enterprise."
And you are a moron.
The author wins.
""The monks at Saint Joseph Abbey have been able to preserve and maintain their quiet lifestyle through farming and harvesting timber." Riiiiighhhhhtt."
That comment proves, to every one, and for all time, that you are full of shit.
Hate and bile will kill you.
Just saying.
Progressing,
"Since free markets are never really free, without regulation they quickly devolve into oligopolies and monopolies. America learned this at the turn of the 20th century. Ever play monopoly? Over time, small advantages turn into overwhelming disparities and inequities."
Name one. A "monopoly" from the turn of the century when the farce known as anti-trust law was foisted upon the American entrepreneur. Answer: You can't. Monopolies cannot exist in a free market. They can only exist by government sanction.
"I've been paid millions to understand economics."
Paid millions? Perhaps in grains of sand. Certainly not cash. Your are "progressing" toward insanity. You might fool some, but not me…
Hey Progressive….
You say you're paid millions to understand economics?
Well, I'm The Emperor of Earth, The Moon and Mars and The Protector of the Solar System!
Bow down before your Emperor!
The "education" guild?
Competition succeeds out of spontaneous order. Markets existed well before governments. Pollution fails in socially controlled societies as well. No pricing deters it. Check Russia right now for the massive pollution and the ex soviet union for their massive pollution. Also check N. Korea.
I am utterly shocked at your lack of market understanding. Everything you suggest has been tried before with utter failure. Check every heavily regulated society. Hong Kong, for example is closest to a free economy and it does far better than N. Korea that is heavily regulated. Even Sweden reduced a lot of regulation in the 1990s when it was borderline bankrupt.
Government has no business distorting the market place since it creates these booms and busts to begin with. Keynesian economics does not work and each bust from a boom proves this. It was gov meddling that created BOTH the savings and loan fiasco AND the Fannie and Freddie crash.
You don't have any clear eyed understanding of market since you systematically ignore all examples of spontaneous order and you ignore that people are rational, peaceful moral agents. NOBODY SHOULD GOVERN that is YOUR fatal flaw. Maybe YOU need a leash because YOU are hobbesian but the rest are not.
The reality is time and time again history shows that when gov attempts to manage our lives, death and destruction result and we once more have to beat them back out of our business.
You're not clear eyed, you're blinded. Same progressive material I was taught. But you fail to really look at the world. You fail to see that people merely wish to go about their business. You assume if people are left unto themselves they will start selling body parts. BTW I can flood this board with FDA mistakes made that have killed thousands of people. The FDA does not protect anyone other than the large corporate interests that wish to create barriers for entry and competition. That is the truth you fail to see because it crashes your failed ideology.
Right. Thanks. The NEA wants to be in charge, but they have not grabbed it yet.
BTW, progressivism progresses toward NOTHING other than the past. NOTHING you have mention nor any progressive ideology introduces ANYTHING NEW.
Planned societies is OLD
Regulations are OLD
Managing people is OLD
Gov interference is OLD
Attempts at "equality" are OLD
You can't name one NEW THING progressivism actually advocates. Kings and queens in castles telling the dumb serfs how to live their lives is OLD-N-BUSTED.
I dare you to name one thing progressives advocate that is NEW.
Individualism is NEW-N-HOTNESS.
Expansion of liberty through non-coercion is NEW-N-HOTNESS.
Reducing gov because people can manage their own lives is NEW-N-HOTNESS.
We have wasted literally 10s of millions of lives trying progressivism and its other forms of statism. Its done.
As it happens, I'm in a education service industry that gets semi-regular calls to regulate, by the method mentioned repeatedly – certification by competitors.
The thing is, our "industry" stages regular cross-provider competitions where the judges are always the various instructors. To say I've seen first hand just how bad the concept is in multiple areas is an understatement.
As for other groups, don't forget Hollywood, and writers, directors, and actors.
Add in the current movement among "journalists" so they can exclude bloggers.
Neither has the absolute power of the AMA, Bar, or UFT, but they are just as vicious, if not moreso, because of their lesser power.
"That, my friends, is the road to tyranny; it's just the scenic route." good line!
"Vampire Beds"
it still comes down to the government has NO business protecting businesses from competition.
a related area is that governments should NOT be able to use public funds, either thru taxes or the cheap labor of prisoners, to unfairly compete against private industry.
And with Obama care, casket demand will be up.
If there is a black monk, does he get an extra twenty points on that test?
CL,
Don't joke about this. They have been trying to pass a "food safety" law for the last year or so that, if passed as written, would classify any grown produce as a commercial farm and would have to be regulated and inspected by the USDA. I am sure that the argument would be that this is not what was "intended" but we all know too well that there will always be some government idiot who will inforce the "letter" of the law.
Sell Monk Farts in a box.
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