A Whittaker Chambers Dialogue
by Alan SnyderLast Saturday I published a post entitled “Whittaker Chambers: The New Deal as Revolution.” The main premise of the post was Chambers’s view of the New Deal as a revolution of bookkeeping and lawmaking, providing a shift in power from business to politics.
Chambers’s indictment of Alger Hiss as part of the New Deal revolution led to Hiss’s conviction on perjury. To me, Chambers’s view of the New Deal [as reflected in the lives of Hiss and others] is in line with reality.
I was surprised, but also pleased, to notice that one of the comments on my posting was from Chambers’s grandson David Chambers. I was intrigued, though, with the thrust of his comment: he disagreed with my major premise. We dialogued in the comments section, and he requested that his viewpoint be presented in a posting rather than relegated to the comments. I agreed. Herewith, I present Mr. Chambers’s comments and my responses. The comments were long enough that I had to edit, but I trust I’ve captured the essence of what Mr. Chambers was saying.
He began:
One of the strangest trends I’ve seen vis-a-vis my grandfather, Whittaker Chambers, is support for attacks on the New Deal by quoting him. The passage you cite is the most quoted. The citation omits, however, a very important sentence:
“It is surprising how little I knew about the New Deal, although it had been all around me during my years in Washington.” (Whittaker Chambers, Witness, p. 471) Clearly then, Whittaker Chambers spoke about the New Deal with the caveat that he “knew little” about it.
Why would those attacking the New Deal cite someone who has so clearly disqualified himself?
Much of the time, I see others quote the entire paragraph and then ignore that sentence in what they go on to write. In those instances, readers have at least some chance of catching my grandfather’s disclaimer and weighing it against the rest of the quotation. Sadly, your citation does not afford readers that opportunity.
I responded: ”David, I in no way meant to quote out of context, and I don’t believe I did. That one sentence does not disqualify him from making a judgment on the New Deal. All he is saying is that up to that point in his life he had known little about it. Writing after the Hiss case, he certainly had plenty of time to learn more. In fact, that’s what the rest of that section of Witness is all about–his newfound understanding of the New Deal. Consequently, I don’t really agree with the point you are making, but please know that I have the utmost respect for your grandfather.”
He then further elaborated:
I appreciate your respect for my grandfather. May we then agree to disagree, respectfully? I do not equate taking a “first hard look” by someone who knew “little” about the New Deal as making for an expert, worthy of citation.
I disagree, too, with your assumption. Just because “he certainly had plenty of time to learn more” does not prove that he did in fact use that time to learn more. In fact, I would argue, he spent his time otherwise. . . .
In 1951, as he was writing Witness, he believed that “the Popular Front mind dominated American life, at least from 1938 to 1948, and it is still grossly premature to count it out” (Witness, p. 499).
I disagree with such statements. The power of the Popular Front and the Communist Party among American intellectuals waxed in the early 1930s due mostly to the Great Depression, the Dust Bowl, and rise of Nazism. Coming just behind these major events were the Great Purges, the Spanish Civil War, and the Hitler-Stalin Pact, which caused great numbers of those same people to desert the cause — including him. . . .
[Whittaker’s] viewpoint arises from the peculiar, isolated perspective of a former Soviet underground operative, not a student of American politics. . . . He could not see the New Deal as an American response. The New Deal “accepted” Capitalism, seeking rather to ameliorate Capitalism’s self-cannibalizing nature, after decades of boom-bust. . . .
In sum (and in my opinion), you have fallen into a trap set long ago by Bill Buckley and other early admirers. You have put Whittaker Chambers on a pedestal. This has led . . . you . . . to take his writings at face value. You have not acknowledged his own self-disqualification, nor examined why he said it. You have not examined when and why he railed against the New Deal as he did.
My response: ”I wish to give Whittaker more credit. . . . From everything I’ve read of his (which is everything, I believe), it is obvious he was a thinker/analyzer who would have little trouble identifying what was behind the New Deal. I still don’t see his statement as a self-disqualification.
“I’m also aware of the danger of hagiography. . . . I don’t put him on a pedestal; I appreciate what he offered in a deep way, but recognize that all men are fallen creatures.
“The basic problem may be our views of the New Deal. You take the position that it was compatible with capitalism. I look at the same program and come to an opposite conclusion. I don’t believe the boom-bust cycle of capitalism was the engine that created the Depression. I’m more attuned to the view that Federal Reserve actions were the key factor. FDR’s policies did not “save” capitalism from itself or ameliorate the problems. I believe he created greater problems than an unfettered capitalism ever created.”
I’m glad to have given Mr. Chambers this opportunity to present his view. I have to say, though, that I am of the same opinion still. I do take Whittaker Chambers at his word because I believe he was a keen observer of the times.
What should come of this dialogue? If it leads anyone to read Witness for the first time, I will consider this worthwhile. You can then make your own determination as to which position is more accurate . . . and you’ll also experience one of the best books of the twentieth century.
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102 Comments
Where ever you stand on what Whittaker Chambers believed at the time you have to admit one thing…
You wont see this kind of debate over at the huffing and puffington post.
A good example of why I am luvnthebigsites.
LOL, what a whiner.
Sounds like the grandson is a frustrated apologist for marxism that gets teased by his compatriots about his "traitorous" grandfather.
Alan, for god sakes take the man at his word. If he wrote in his book that he didn't have a good understanding of the New Deal he probably didn't. Stop trying to turn him into an ideological hero of the right.
And it's probably not one of the best books of the 20th century. Lighten up on the hyperbole.
After being a liberal for many years up until the 1994 assault on the second amendment by Bubba, I came to the same conclusions about the 'new deal' and what progressives really were. The 'new deal' is one of the most insidious pieces of legislation ever foisted upon the American people, second only to the new 'health control' law.
Progressives don't have anyone's interests or well being in mind except their own and if you are buying their story don't be too surprised when all of your 'dreams' become your forefather's worst nightmares.
We tried to warn you.
From what I have read on the depression, the fall was more likely due to greed and get rich quick scams, which affected both big and little investors alike. More the attitude of the time was easy going. WW1 was over, times were fairly good. Could even say prosperous(1925 -1929. People were willing to take a risk. Many thought this good life would continue without interruption. Point is when push came to shove and calls were made on falling stock, a great many who bought long and on margin couldn't cover the call notice with cash. Thus, began of the great decline into the Depression.
From the ashes arose FDR's new Deal. One giant step on the path to some of the social programs we have today. From the little I know of Chambers. It would seem he was probably much more aware of the New Deal and its consequences. He lived the before, the during and the after. An eyewitness so to speak..
You're just bitter because he helped nail your boy Algie. Boo hoo.
Get-rich-quick schemes = junk bonds, derivatives, subprime mortgage bundling…History repeating itself.
Hmmmm…..The Roaring Twenties, built upon fast and easy credit. The bubble popped and they got "The New Deal". Sound familiar? The Roaring Two Thousands, built upon fast and easy credit. The bubble popped and we got the health care scam.
Why can we not get rid of these Progressives? Can't we send them to somewhere like, Antartica?
Two more articles that might be of further interest:
http://www.essortment.com/all/fdrnewdealfra_rgst….
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3357
You just might see a repeat history here. FDR to Obama. Any simaliarities?
Enjoy.
Most leftist intellectuals still bristle at W.C.
They hate the people exposing their nefarious plans.
As with Ayn Rand also, nobody wanted to hear about the true evil nature of the “fellow travelers” coming from the USSR and of their deeds during the purges and the designed mass starvation of millions.
David Chambers epitomizes the snail on the sociopolitical straight razor.
A deal with Antartica was in the works and then Greece blew up. The penguins called bullsh*t on the deal and accused us of attempted fraud saying " hey, this crap doesn't work at all….."
Atollah…for god sakes take the man at his word. If Bush thought there were WMD's in Iraq he probably did. Stop trying to turn him into an ideological conservative pariah of the American people.
Another good book is "None Dare Call it Treason" by John A. Stormer published in 1964. Whittaker Chambers is mentioned in this book also in regards the Hiss trial.
I can understand the younger Chambers being a bit defensive about his grandfather's ideas being used to support a certain point of view, no matter how accurately. Family is sacred and beloved, and we must put ourselves in young Chambers' shoes, after all, his grandfather isn't around to confirm, deny, or clarify his ideas.
That being said, there is plenty of evidence supporting the malicious intent of the Raw Deal. The Supreme Court ruling most its provisions unconstitutional within a few short years being chief among them. The Depression wasn't so Great in most parts of the world, only in the U.S. is it referred to this way. Roosevelt admired the European welfare state, much like Obama does now, only FDR had the balls to say so. The New Deal set a precedent for massive government intervention, not just in the economy, but in all aspects of American life…
… Look how rapidly the ever growing government apparatus has squandered the wealth of this nation, and it all began with the implementation of Roosevelt's deal. I wonder, just whom was this deal made with? Certainly not the American taxpayer. We've gone from the greatest generation of Americans to the worst generation, in just one generation. I despise the Boomer generation, for never have so few, taken so much, from so many. I will raise a toast when the last of that generation turns to dust, if there is anything left with which to toast.
"Progressives don't have anyone's interests or well being in mind except their own…"
I take exception to… “except their own”
These people will eat their young if they got in the way.
I remember this exchange. I also remember getting a headache after scanning Grand-sonny's 1000 plus word mini-novels. The guy does not know how to 'get to the point'. Since he's bound to show up soon…. good luck and 10/4.
Not to mention the fact that even Sadam's own generals thought there were WMDs in Iraq and that many missiles capable of delivering several different types of weaponized payloads have been found buried in the desert, missing their warheads, funny how that never really has made the news.
Very good, JA. In MikaATrollah's case, a waste of time, but still a good comeback.
I'm of the opinion that the stock market crash in 1929 was not the cause of the Great Depression. What put the "Great" in the Great Depression was the Smoot-Hawley Tariffs of 1930.
From US State Department website:
"Such policies contributed to a drastic decline in international trade. For example, U.S. imports from Europe declined from a 1929 high of $1,334 million to just $390 million in 1932, while U.S. exports to Europe fell from $2,341 million in 1929 to $784 million in 1932. Overall, world trade declined by some 66% between 1929 and 1934."
From US Census Bureau via Wikipedia:
"Unemployment was at 7.8% in 1930 when the Smoot-Hawley tariff was passed, but it jumped to 16.3% in 1931, 24.9% in 1932, and 25.1% in 1933."
Without Smoot-Hawley, the subsequent credit crunch and recession caused by the crash would have probably blown over in a few years. Then, as now, the Congress portrayed Wall Street and the banks as the villains to shift the blame away from their own incompetent policies. And then, as now, the progressives were determined not to let a good crisis go to waste and use it to remodel society in their image. The result back then was the New Deal. Now? We'll see.
If Mik is anything he’s consistent, consistently wrong, but none the less consistent. This guy is a leftist ideologue to the core, or he’s the hired instigator for Breitbart.
Stan, I don't suppose you could tell me why I don't stay logged in on the intensedebate thing the last few days, could you? I gotta log in constantly. Has it something to do with the new login membership requirements? I sent an email to the ID people early yesterday but haven't heard anything. Maybe I'm not close enough to the monitor. L.
I'll drive the bus
Not all us boomers are as you describe – you are speaking of the filthy hippies of the 60's who figured out how cool it was to do NOTHING other than piss people off – riot, protest, speak out with completely juvenile ideology of which they understood nothing – those are the ones we will gladly bid farewell -
lol, agreed!
NO, more like the Dot Com BUBBLE, but on a far lesser scale.
Unlike now, when the vast majority of the populace own stock ( whether they buy it themselves, or their pension funds [UNIONS] buy them ) only a very small portion of Americans owned stock, in the 1920s; no matter what you may have been taught or you assumed, all on your own.
Were there breadlines? Yes, but businesses and banks went out of business and that's how many lost their jobs.
At it's height, 25% of people were unemployed; that means that SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT of the people were working !
It was margins , not "credit", which was virtually impossible for poor people to get, in any other venue, that was "easy" to get.
I think that David Chambers is ashamed of his grandfather, which, if he had more than 3 working brain cells, he wouldn't be. I don't think that it is "FAMILY" he is trying to protect, or whatever, but himself and his squishy self.
Yeah I’ve been having the same problem, I would only be guessing as to why. Not being close enough to the monitor works for me…LOL!
The "GREATEST GENERATION" raised the BOOMERS ( who are a gigantic horde, not a "few" ), whom you should "blame", if blame you must. And not all BOOMERS ( of which I am not one of ), deserve blame of any kind.
Frankly, you sound like a nasty brat who hates his/her parents; not to mention the fact that you are ill educated at best. Just WHAT did BOOMERS "taken" from you and everyone else who isn't a BOOMER ?
Ohhhhh…..AN JEFF HIT'S A BLISTERING LINE DRIVE TO RIGHT FIELD!
)))))))))))))
Smoot-Haley didn't help, neither did the world wide depression, which most of the rest of the world was in long before America went belly up.
What also killed off the market was Joe Kennedy and his cartel, who kept going short and were involved in all kinds of "crimes".
And then there's FDR's policies which kept our economy down.
Oooooooooops and THE DUST BOWEL didn't help any either.
Assuming that some of you writing these comments can and do actually READ. Another book worth picking up and related to Witness is "Modern Times" by Paul Johnson. His descriptions of Hitler, Stalin and Mao give us a prelude of what we face. Think of this: (from Brezhnev in 1977) "In our country it is not forbidden to 'think differently' from the majority….It is quite another matter if a few individuals who have actively come out against the socialist system, embark on the road of anti-Soviet activity, violate laws and, finding no support inside their own country, turn for support abroad, to imperialist subversive centres….."
"The identification of political criticism with treason, indeed with active treachery, was of course the basis of the Lenin-Stalin terror. " (Johnson p. 682) Digest that!
Now Deval Patrick at a forum discussing partisanship in the capital, "is almost at the level of sedition." And Joe Klein in the same vein: Statements by Beck, Palin are "right up close to being seditious."
Appreciate the reply–guess I won't worry about it. Maybe we're all getting too "opinionated" and ID or AB are running out of magnetic media.
I had that problem until a few weeks ago. Even though I hadn't so much as rebooted my PC, IntenseDebate would log me out, repeatedly. I never tried to get in touch with them, and the issue resolved on its own.
Apropos of Klein and Patrick, Democrats in Congress are gearing up for a vote on a new piece of legislation to blatantly undermine the First Amendment, known as the DISCLOSE Act (HR 5175).
As Rep Price points out, "For many bloggers to exercise their free speech rights, they would have to jump through the same onerous new hoops as many businesses, nonprofit groups, and even such threats to democracy as your local chamber of commerce. If this sounds like an absurd overreach by one party in power, I invite you to take a look at their government takeover of health care, taxpayer-funded bailouts, and general hostility to private sector economic growth."
Boy did those in charge do their Marxist homework! And you can't say these guys aren't coordinating their message. Who's pulling the strings? Boy if Whittaker had their blackberries!
another good book on the subject was that book by ann coulter about mccarthy. the second half is alot of dem bashing, but the first half has lots of information tying it all together, specially with the added information gleened from the venonna project. i think treason was the title. but that book woke me up, and when i learned about the marxist underpinnings of the democrats i could not believe it. then i went and talked to a neighbor, she is a school teacher, and when i mentioned it, she said exactly what ann said she would. she told me socialism just has never been given a proper chance to work, even with the loss of millions of lives so far trying. it blew my mind!
Antarctica-phobe. Don't hate.
That is the truth! They are straight up koolaid drinkers over there!
After reading your first article, I was fully prepared to buy a copy of Witness for myself. After reading this piece, I am still inclined to read it but less inclined to buy it. Oh well.
Another stipulation when we rule the world…….
No jiggy names.
No Smoots or Newts!
Sensible names! Like…………..Bob.
K?
That was MY first thought. It sounds like the Proglibs got to him a long time ago. I WAS going to buy a copy, but if that's his attitude I'll just save myself the bother of possibly donating to any royalty check he might be looking for.
The poison has to taste sweet, otherwise the victims would never drink the Kool-Aid.
Ain't it the truth! I'll take another Ronald any day!
Sorry to paint your generation with such a broad brush, Ma'am, but they have done much harm to the nation, much of it irreperable.
As to the A-hole below, I woundn't give 1redcent to your ignorant ass if you were homeless and naked! I loved my parents very much, and not just because they were not from the self indulgent, reckless boomer generation. They were terrific parents, and I know how educated I am and don't give a shit what you think.
If you need to ask why the boomers are such a drain, then you haven't been paying attention and need to check your ill informed education level.
Please forgive me for not explaining it better. Two percent of the population had enough assets to play the (Margin) game.
I love Antartica….really…it's just really, really cold there. And, since progressives have very COLD hearts and minds, they will thrive there!
Oh did I ever hit a nerve; jpmzo; GOOD!
And since it appears that you only understand gutter language……………….I wouldn't pee on you if you were on fire; you truly benighted, uneducated, reason and logicless little twerp.
I have been paying attention for far longer than you have and I also know, again unlike you, the problems created by some Boomers. It was that "GREATEST GENERATION", whom you lauded, who are responsible for ruining their children, whom you hate, the Boomers. Sol just WHAT made tghem "THE GREATEST GENERATIONS" ? Why, it was a stupid book, written by an uber liberal, who decided that they, alone, were "GREAT", because they were, for the most part, patriotic and joined up ( though most were actually DRAFTED ! ) to fight WW II !
Your parent couldn't have been "terrific"; you are nothing to be proud of and you are their offspring.
Look up…
Actually, some people who couldn't afford to, did buy on margin. But as I said earlier, far fewer people owned any stocks, back then, than they do now.
Indy,
That's cause they're lookin in the wrong desert.
Our bone headed 30 day "declaration of invasion" was a fairly unmistakable hint. And those bumper to bumper flat beds runnin 24/7 outta Iraq into Syria durin that same time period were kind of a tip off.
Exactly – SYRIA – whenever sh!t hit the fan for Saddam he RAN to Syria for help/shelter (his family).
Look dickhead, I simply stated my opinion on the topic. I would gladly debate the issue civilly and reasonably, which I had. Do you ever preview your comments before posting them, or does the diarrhea always flow uncontrollably!?
Read your words, you insulted me and my family and you're indignant that I answered in kind!? If that's evidence of your superior intellect and reason, I remain unconvinced, but I'll gladly debate the issue. Your arguments are so full of assumptions and suppositions, I don't know where to begin. If you could refrain from insulting people you disagree with, then I would gladly engage you, but don't throw punches while expecting not to get hit back. You threw the first punch.
I never read Brockaw's book, but I do think its title aptly describes that generation, who endured economic disaster, environmental catastrophe, and war. But let's crucify them because they over indulged their children. Wow, that's genius!
[...] http://biggovernment.com/asnyder/2010/05/27/a-whittaker-chambers-dialogue/#more-125358 [...]
Take it out of the library, and don't ask for it if it's not there.
Wow, mic's like, gone. Where'd he go ? It's been 10 hours. Was it sumpthin you said? If anybody knows where he lives, maybe they should check up on him and make sure that he didn't slip on spilt kool-aid and bump his noggin. HEY ! Maybe that would knock some sense into him.
From what I know about Chambers (and, I admit, I have not read everything), the so-called "disqualifying statement" was more likely a self-deprecating statement.
My mother was a child during the Great Depression, and she told me that she believed at one time that the only person who could be President was FDR. For most of her life, she bought into the myth that FDR and his New Deal brought the country out of the Great Depression. It's taken me about two decades, but — even though she's in her 80s — she finally gets it!
just a slight comment. being his grandson doesn't make him an expert on what was in his grandpa's mind either.
Dr. Snyder,
When I asked for the opportunity to respond in a separate post, I did not imagine that you would write the reply, inserting yourself, while picking and choosing from our exchange… … …
David
I read the book years ago and apparently fell into the same trap as WFB. However, that was long ago and far away. I am coming to this now with little memory of what I thought before, but now when I read the elided sentence I read the story of how insidious programs like the New Deal can be. Through somewhat deliberate action such programs permeate the air we breathe until we believe that their manifestations are simply "what is." The sentence in question sounds more like the admission of an epiphany and an acknowledgment of having been duped than it does an apology for a lack of knowledge. Guess I'll need to reread after all these years.
No worries. Most of us can and probably did go look for it. But if anyone missed it, here's the link: http://biggovernment.com/asnyder/2010/05/22/whitt...
Note, the initial comment was deleted by the user, but you can find it repeated with full discussion about halfway down the second page. Look for username "aboudagn"
In the 1970's, a State Department employee gave me his well-worn copy of "None Dare Call It Treason". He made me promise to guard it well, as the US government was aware of a Soviet-backed effort to steal the book from library shelves all across America. I still own that crumbling paperback, and I've never forgotten his warning.
and.. OOOHHHHH it beans Mik RIGHT in the head!!
that's GOTTA hurt!!
remember, the depression of 1920 was just as bad as the '29 crash, but the policies of Harding and Coolidge brought the economy back. They cut government spending (by 50%!!!) and let the free markets do their thing. Unemployment went from 12% in 1920 to just 2% in 1922.
screw the New Deal
i also read that book. excellent read! i sometimes feel like i'm the only one who did, as even Conservatives still shout "McCarthyism" when they are talking about someone going on a witch-hunt. after reading that book, i realized that Tail-Gunner Joe was a national hero, and i hope that someday he will be recognized for his contributions to the defense of this country against Communism.
Well in that case, Jeff
A BLISTERING LINE DRIVE TO LEFT FIELD, LOLOL!
I rarely see this kind of debate on any Big site, and every dissenting comment usually degenerates into name calling from many so-called conservatives who support the Big philosophies…
You have my vote on that. BTW, I credit Wilson with starting this mess.
Believe it or not, I found my copy in a box of books someone was fixin' to throw in the trash at the local recycling center. Also found the Second Amendment Primer by Les Adams in the same box. I've got too many already, but I hate to see books get thrown in the trash.
Up your's you asswipe !
Your projection complex is on view for everyone to see. Perhaps you just can't help yourself, but go read the post of yours that I was replying to. You wished an entire generation dead, blamed them for "stealing" from all other generations, and was so silly, it should be deleted by you.
I'm laughing at you, making fun of you, and you, you thin skinned jerk can't see it. LOL
Brokaw's book's title was picked up and is now erroneously used, almost always WITHOUT comprehension and understanding. And FYI……………..you misspelled Brokaw's name !
Not all people born between 1916 and 1925 were all THAT "great" and neither did most of them live through environmental catastrophe.
It's not even that so many of them did over indulge their children…………………..it's that they didn't instill patriotism in the, didn't teach them any common sense, didn't teach them any sense of personal responsibility, and lastly, didn't curtail their self destructive/national destructive behaviors.
Go ahead, try to engage me in a civil debate; you'll lose; but give it a try. LOL
Thanks K… And you’re right about the waste of time thing, but once in awhile, it’s worth it.
HE HE….I was hoping to just connect.
David, to post on the site you have to be asked by the editors to be a regular contributor. Also, posts are to be kept as close as possible to no more than 800 words. Under those conditions, I thought it best to showcase the essentials of our dialogue. I did my best to highlight your main points. It was important to show my responses; without them, some of your comments would have been in a vacuum. I'm sorry you are disappointed with the result, but it was a good faith effort on my part. I hope you understand.
I highly recommend buying it. It's one you will want to have as part of your permanent library.
Oh I'd say you did that in spades, Jeff….
Course it ain't quite a Sunday afternoon, a cold beer, a dawg, and a home game, but hey, I'll take it for now. It's an American thang…..
Just pray GOD Obama isn't invited to toss another one of his wimpy ast girlie pitches. ew…
Sadam also commandeered some Iraqi airliners and removed the seats to make room for cargo.
Evidence was plentiful yet never really capitalized on.
How Carl Rove couldn’t /didn’t sell this is beyond me.
Speaking of that Tex…Hope you and yours have a wonderful Memorial Day weekend!
Hey bud, not sure how old you are and why you ARE choosing to paint with a very broad brush – we weren't deemed the boomers for no reason, the numbers are staggering – what evidence you have to support such a claim and why do you need to get all nasty!
From my perspective, it's the generation behind me that has produced NOTHING, so who is the drain??
And where do you get the idea that any said harm is irrepairable?? You are making less sense as you go, stop while your ahead and lay off the tacky name calling.
I doubt there is a cognizant answer to be had on this point 1red – sounds like a typical pouty kid without any logic to back up the 'claim'. It's juvenile and without merit.
Just a side note, Brokaw is a joke, truly.
That he is, OCG.
That's about what I wsas thinking too, OCG, yet he/she claims to want a "real" debate. LOL
Doubt the dude knows what 'real' is, nor do they show any skill in the debate they claim to want!
Forget it, it's a kid with a stick up their a** over some crap some professor sold him on!
ALWAYS THE CALLING CARD OF THE LEFT – BLAME SOMEONE ELSE!!!!!!!!!! HA HA
Why is he even allowed to talk on tv anymore?? lol
And who the heck would waste their money buying his book??
It's got to be a little snotty GenXer or worse, a GenYer. They're always the one throwing hissy fits over the BOOMers, without understanding just WHO is really responsible for the garbage that is besetting us all now. LOL
Well, the LEFT adores him.
I have NO idea WHO bought/is still buying his book.
That would require learning something! Not going to happen with these dumbed down generations, thank you lefty genius' for turning out more sissys! arrggg
kinda the way they adored tom hayden that sick pos! too bad the left NEVER knows who they bestow their adoration upon – stupid stupid stupid!!!!!!!!!
It's long past time for everyone to at least try to learn factual, nonrevisionist history, instead of believing that what thy di "know" is factual.
And all of the damned "victim" crap, as well as the ensuing "blame everyone else", except for the "protected groups", has also got to go !
Oh the lefties' adoration goes waaaaaaaaaaaaay back: Hiss ( card carrying Commie ), Woody Guthry ( Commie ), Pete Seeger ( card carrying, stinking Commie ), and on and on and on……………….the list is far too long for me to post.
But don't forget that there are still those who rally around the Rosenbergs ( Commies and convicted, long dead TRAITORS ! ), even though the opening up of the KGB files proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that yes, they were indeed spies and stinking Commie agents.
I never said ALL Boomers are anything, and so your numbers are staggering, what's that signify other than that there are a lot of you? If you look at those who sought to "change the world," back in the 60's, then it was Boomers who swelled the ranks of the ACLU, who's daily mission is to tear the fabric of the nation. It was Boomers who became college professors, media moguls, community organizers, and politicians looking to shape America in their own "progressive" image. Those Boomers have, in my opinion, done irreparable harm to the nation. Not all Boomers, obviously, are this way, and I never said they were, but when referring to those previously mentioned, I used the name Boomers.
The only reason I got "all nasty," was the gentleman, 1redcent, chose to insult me because he didn't like what I had to say. Turning the other cheek isn't a very successful strategy, so I chose to answer in kind. It may be tacky, as you say, but it wasn't started by me.
As far the generation you chose to malign, Gen. X of which I am, most of us work hard and have produced plenty of wealth and value. According to historians, Gen. X ranges from 1961-1981, a fairly productive period, with the usual ups and downs.
Sorry if you took offense, but as I said, not all Boomers are progressive subversives, just as not all Muslims are terrorists are, but unfortunately, all of the contemporary terrorists are Muslim. Because of the actions of the progressives in your generation, you will, unfortunately, be associated with them. Just as I will be associated with the idea that my generation is the one who refused to grow up. It doesn't apply to the majority of people I know, but there are enough of them apparently to earn us the moniker, Generation X. Whatever…
Yea, I'm such a victim, …sigh. What is amusing is reading the back and forth of two highly presumptuous individuals. Liberal? Buying what my professors sold me!? HA, HA, HA, HA, HAH!!! Wow, we've got it all figured out haven't we? No, I'm no regressive, but I guess it doesn't matter.
You are right about one thing, 1redcent, I am a Gen. Xer (1961-81), which begs the question: since you stated you are NOT a Boomer (unless you mistyped earlier), and you've denigrated the X,Y generation; which all-knowing generation are you a part of, the Jedi generation? These are not the droids you're looking for… You seem awfully defensive about the poor Boomers.
Listen, I apologize for degenerating into the gutter, but it's probably too late for that. There are simply elements of every generation that are responsible for that group's characteristics. There is much to be admired about the WWII generation, obviously, just there is much to be disgusted about the progressive wing of the Boomer generation, and I never wished them dead, I simply said I would toast their demise after the fact.
I'm a "WAR BABY", which is a teensy cohort, that got squeezed by the previous and especially later generation. On the bright side, though we lived through rationing, we hardly remember it, but we were also part of drives for paper and all sorts of other things, to help out during the Korean War, were taught to hate and fear Commies, to be VERY patriotic, and since we were all too old to be raised by Dr, Spock rules ( his book cam out long after we were born and BTW he didn't raise HIS kids with those rules ) we were raised with a really good sense of personal responsibility.
I gave you what for, for your slash & burn/tarring with far to broad a brush of the Boomers, because such blame is childish and unacceptable. Not all Boomers are bad, evil or spoilt, just as all Greatest Generation were/are valiant, noble, or anywhere near "great".
I put you into the Gen X or Gen Y cast, because the ONLY people I have ever seen rail so against Boomers are Gen Xers, though I wouldn't be surpised to now see a Gen Yer fall into that trap.
No, it's not to late and I gladly accept your apology !
Glad you came back and cleared up with you were trying to state jp – 1red isn't a boomer, but I am (1946-1964) – what the crazies of the 60's did was use an age old tactic, be the loudest voice and attach feelings to the message for the 'general public' – the biggest trick they pulled was getting anyone to think they were the majority, which clearly they were not, nor are they today – it's just a dirty method that works for them, spread lies and filth and the typical person will buy it, or at least believe that is what we wanted – that was what I was reacting to in your posts. And as with us boomers, surely your generation is NOT a bunch of lazy spoiled brats
I'm glad we could clear this up. This is the last place we should be attacking each other, afterall, I'm sure we are all "on common ground" more often than not. And this Dr. Spock seems to have soiled the good name of a beloved
Sci-Fi character.
I think my parents were in this "'tweener" generation you speak of (born in '43-'44?). No love of commies, my Dad was a Republican at one time, which gave me a conservative outlook, thanks Dad! I like the flexiblity of Independence though, no parties for me.
If you want to see my hot Italian temper (yes, I will stereotype myself) aimed at a proper target, I suggest checking out this BigGovt comment section regarding the Republican party and civil rights. http://biggovernment.com/mzak/2010/05/31/republic...
In the replies to a "bandwooley." WARNING, not very family friendly language, sorry. Then again, 1red should be able to handle it. I've seen some his posts. Makes me seem tame.
;p
To my fellow Italian, thanks for the response. I agree, we ARE on more common ground than some people choose to look at – you are correct, this is NOT the time for any of us to be going at each other. I'll check out the thread and have a good read I'm sure
Thanks again for taking the time to respond and we are surely in for the fight of our lives – I'm thankful to be traveling with such passionate people.
And I am thankful for the forgiveness and understanding of our guys and gals, which puts us in stark relief of our "progressive friends."
And that's the truth
We must stick together and defeat this pathetic take down of our country.
[...] » A Whittaker Chambers Dialogue – Big Government Submitted on:Sunday 6th of June 2010 02:37:34 AM voted by 8 users [...]
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